Does free will exist? It's a question that's haunted philosophers for centuries. But physicist Sabine Hassenfelder has a provocative answer that might just disturb you. He says, free will doesn't exist.

People just go, what do you mean by free will? And I was trying to say, well, it doesn't really matter, because what I'm talking about is, like, what do we know about the laws of physics? And why is it so hard to make sense of this, like, on a personal level, if you know that your brain is made of particles and we know the laws that those particles are.

Ruled by, everything is determined by the laws of physics. But here's the paradox that's fascinated me. I've talked to Sam Harris, Dan Dennett, Robert Sapolsky, all brilliant minds who agree that free will is an illusion. Yet when I asked them if they've ever encountered someone who acts like they don't have free will, they all said no. How can we all be determined by physics, yet live as if we're making genuine choices? This isn't some abstract philosophical exercise.

No.

Sabine's insight has real implications for artificial intelligence, quantum computing. In the future of consciousness, she explains why I may already have the same kind of agency that we do and why quantum computers could reveal that we fundamentally misunderstand the nature of reality.

Sabina, it's so great to see you again after more than a year. I don't think we talked very much in 2024, so it's great to see you.

Good to see you, Brian.

You've been had a wonderful video yesterday, day before, about this thought that changed your life. And to me, I was a little depressed because it seemed to say that, you know, everything is phys and everything is determined, and therefore, you know, you should maybe naively not be happy, but you turned out to be very happy. So can you explain what determinism is? Because, Sabina, I've talked to everybody. I've talked to Sam Harris, I've talked to you, I've talked to Dan Dennett, the late Dan Dennett, his final podcast. I've talked to Robert Sapolsky. They all say free will doesn't exist. And yet I say, have you ever met somebody who acts like they believe that they don't have free will? And they all say no. So how can it be that we don't have free will, but everybody acts like we have free will?

Well. Well, it all depends on what you mean by free will. So if you watch my video, you'll have noticed that I avoided using the word this. Is why I was talking about determinism, because otherwise people just go, what do you mean by free will? And I was trying to say what doesn't really matter? Because what I'm talking about is like, what do we know about the laws of physics? And why is it so hard to make sense of this? Like on a personal level, if you know that your brain is made of particles and we know the laws that those particles are ruled by. Right. So where's my place in this now? You said I seem to be happy about it, but really it was more like I was unhappy before. So I was trying to solve a problem and I finally succeeded. So, so what I talked about in the video was that I finally eventually managed to shift my point of view on myself basically and make made peace with knowing that everything is determined up to this random element.

And I read Sam Harris book, which, you know, this, it's only like 460 pages or something. And I agreed with everything except for the one paragraph he wrote about physics. So. But yeah, otherwise it, you know, I think he's right. I think what the disagreement mostly is about is what people even mean by free will, which is what. Which is exactly why I don't like to talk, talk about it. I just think it's a nonsense term. Like even the combination of free and will doesn't really make sense.

Like so, so if you think you're your will determines your decisions, then it's not free. Like that's the entire point of having a will, that you, you make the decision. Right. So, so, so what I was trying to get at in the video is that I began to think of myself as an information processing thing basically that goes through the world. And I think it's, it's made me more aware the information that I consume and how much it affects me. So that was my point. And so of course this entire question of free will is becoming more and more relevant with artificial intelligence that is rapidly coming into the world more and more powerful and people starting to ask like, does it have free will? At which point do we agree that it has free will and is worth protecting on some level?