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Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyone not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo and share stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect and inspire action together. Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to share your insights or to join me on the show.

So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites.

And today is episode 173 with title inclusion Starts With Recruiters. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Jo. Major Jo is transforming the recruitment industry by equipping professionals with the tools and mindset to embed equity and inclusion at every stage of the hiring process. When I asked Jo to describe her superpower, she said it is inspiring recruiters to care more deeply and to think differently about people. Hi, Jo, welcome to the show.

Hi, Jo, thank you so much for having me.

I should say welcome back because we did actually record this episode with two months ago and silly me, I was in the cutting room studio and I cut too deep on the track and erased you and I gave you a rather sheepish email back and said, I'm really sorry, do you forgive me? And you've said anything to have another chat with you, that's fine.

Yes, exactly. This is a privilege to get to do do this all over again.

Another conversation, and it's been so long since we actually recorded that I really don't remember the conversation. So it's a ideal opportunity to maybe update our thinking based on some of the BS that's going on in the world right now and some of the challenges that recruiters are still facing.

What a difference a month makes, right?

It is, yeah. I mean, what difference breakfast makes on one day? You know, you start by eating your bowl of cereal and then by the time you finished it, you're no longer enfranchised in the country. Yeah, stuff happens really rapidly.

We live in very, very interesting times.

So you hang out predominantly in the recruitment space and it's mainly what, I guess agency recruiters rather than in house. Is it?

It's more of a mix now. But when I launched the business, my mission was to support the recruitment industry just because of the responsibility I felt and saw that the recruitment industry had and also the power it has given, how much it's responsible for in terms of the job markets and moving people around. So that. Yeah, that's where it all started. And that's my sweet spot as well. Having been an agency recruiter for such a long time, over 17 years, it felt like a sensible move to start in a space where I was familiar and I also could use myself as that kind of case study because I'd. Although I was an ethical recruiter, those ethics had been built in me from day one. I didn't really understand anything about inclusion and accessibility and equity.

It was just that kind of natural part of me that wanted to do the right thing by humans and for humans to have a good experience of me, but without that kind of that technical knowledge and. And confidence. That makes sense.

Yeah, no, it does. And I did work in the recruitment sector as well as, you know, and I see so many just talk about agency recruiters here wanting to be ethical. They wanted to do the right thing, they wanted to create opportunities for everybody because, let's be honest, it makes good business sense as well, you know, broaden your. Yeah, it's hard finding good talent to give to clients on your slate of options. So it does make sense. But I still get frustrated sometimes. It is a bit performative. It's almost like a tick.

Yes. We're a diverse and inclusive recruitment organisation. It seems to be a bit of.