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Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyone not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo and share stories that resonate deep within.

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And today is episode 175 with the title Brave Learning, Bold Leadership. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Pippa O'Brien. Pippa is a learning innovator and founder of Proda, transforming how frontline teams experience inclusion through immersive drama and authentic conversations. And when I asked Pippa to describe her superpower, she said, it is turning everyday people into empowered learners to through real world storytelling. Hello, Pippa. Welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for inviting me. I feel really privileged and honoured to be the guest on episode 175. I'm in very safe hands, clearly. And looking at your nails, I think beautifully manicured. Safe hands as well. Mine are under the table for a reason. Not so manicured. Right? Beautiful.

Oh, thank you. We met probably 18 months ago. Must be to work with Tallis, wasn't it? We did a storytelling. I was one of your protagonists in a story, wasn't I?

Yes, definitely. And then we took that input and we used it for some drama where we showcased what allyship should and could look like and involved the learners in feeding lines to the actors so they could be really fully immersed and involved in the story as well.

Well, yeah, and it was all around transgender inclusion, if I remember rightly, with. And my wife Marie was involved and we. We did a kind of a dual perspective on workplace and how she felt and how I felt, which is quite powerful, wasn't it?

It was really powerful. And I think one of the lessons that that organisation took from that session was, yes, it could be transgender, it could be any other situation that somebody is facing in their life and that there's no playbook out there that covers every possible scenario that could be going on. In somebody's life. And actually the using your and Marie's story, if you like, to set the scene was so powerful and really thought provoking. And then in the drama we flipped it and we had the actor from memory. The scenario that I'd written was a gay couple where one of the members of the one partner in that partnership was wanted to transition. That was the way that we flipped it. And actually you never know what's going on for people.

People show up for work, they do the best that they can in the moment and what's under the surface is like this massive iceberg that you just don't see. But it comes out through people's behaviour. It's what they say and what they do that gives clues to what's going on to the surface. And quite often that's the time when somebody needs to reach out and say, when what's happening? Tell me. And doing so from a position of where there's trust between the two people and the leadership behaviour then is really around not just trust, but the integrity piece as well. Like, I need you to trust me and I'm going to trust you, but actually I need you to treat that information with integrity and be there to support me as a person. Really, that's. That's kind of the message that I wanted to come out from that session.