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Turning Rejections into Opportunities
The Inclusion Bites Podcast
Turning Rejections into Opportunities
CG
Speaker
C. Guz
JL
Speaker
Joanne Lockwood
00:00 Overcoming Self-Doubt to Act 08:56 "Employer Brand Trust and Candidate Feedback" 13:27 Transparent Hiring Practices Essential 19:02 Modern Recruitment: Evaluating Beyond CVs 22:01 Adapting Mindset for Job Roles 29:24 Enhancing Candidate Experience Reduces Costs 34:03 Contact Hiring Manager Directly 42:11 "Recruiters Seek Genuine Human Touch" 49:12 Balancing Structure and…
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Highlights
“Candidate Experience Impacts Employer Brand: "Your employer brand is candidates. And if you don't value those people, then they're going to talk about it.”
“The Candidate Experience Crisis: "You got to the end in that process and you had zero faith or trust in the system. That almost like why should I bother submitting another application? Because you had been so bruised and damaged by the past experience, you think, well, this is just pointless doing it.”
“The Problem with Job Interviews Quote: "So candidates are set to fail, almost like you're setting your candidates to fail, which is so ironic.”
“The Power of Employer Branding in Startups: "we had an employer brand before the product itself, before an mvp, we were working from Five different time zones. It was, it was a mess. But the way that we positioned our vision resonated so deeply with people that they went on and apply and that was not it. After they applied, I actually had a 20% like of the people filling out an eight section form that I have prepared to be able to assess candidates. And that process look entirely different from any of the interview processes that I've been to because I couldn't find any of those answers in the resumes.”
“They're using workplace samples, they're using five or six how would you questions which actually require more effort from the candidate because they can't just bombard you with their CV on auto, they have to actually look at these questions now.”
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Full transcript
Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyone not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo and share stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect and inspire action together. Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to share your insights or to join me on the show.
So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites.
Today is episode 170 with the title Turning Rejections Into Opportunities, and I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome C Guz. C is a female entrepreneur and job seeker who has turned her own experiences with rejection into a mission to humanise recruitment and make the hiring process more inclusive for all. And when I asked C to describe her superpower, she said it is transforming setbacks into empowerment by advocating for inclusive recruitment practises that allow everyone to thrive. Hello, Si. Welcome to the show.
Hello, Joanne. It's so nice to be here and so, so nice to be doing this with you.
I'm. I'm glad I actually pushed record on this episode because we were chatting away, we were wasting all this fabulous material, so. Brilliant. So, yeah, we've got loads of stuff for our guests to listen to today, so, you see, you said when we were chatting away, you're in Turkey, is that right? Whereabouts in Turkey? Whereabouts in. I don't know it that well. I know Bodrum probably is probably about it.
Currently in Istanbul, commonly known as, you know, the Constantinople, the city with two coasts. So that's where I was born and raised then.
Wow. Because Turkey is a interesting country because it's a bit Mediterranean, it's almost a bit African, it's almost a bit Asian, almost a bit European. It's kind of on that really sort of strange gateway zone, isn't it?
I'd say so, but I personally never found my belonging here. And that's also, you know, what eventually led me to, you know, seeking these global doors and opportunities.
So, you know, like me, actually, you know, you faced rejections in your job search and so how did you turn those kind of rejections and channel those into kind of a An entrepreneurial spirit. How do you humanise recruitment?
Absolutely. That's a great question. Thank you so much. Accidentally, I think I've been studying the whole space for the last eight years and I initially didn't really mean to. I was a very young person, young professional, looking to get opportunities, get the right mentorship. And then the last five years for me has been really difficult because I got more than 13,000 rejections. And that meant like slap on the wrist, a kick on the face. But that eventually made me navigate a 10 month of unemployment period where the financial insecurity was at an all time low, at an all time high.
And essentially I looked at everything that I was navigating and how degraded, you know, unqualified I felt. And it felt like as if I am totally useless, as if I cannot achieve nothing. Um, and the job market was really like, you know, transforming when I was an undergraduate. And then when I graduated, it just became a whole chaos with the layoffs and, and the economy, inflations and everything. So in that 10 months, what I realised is, you know what? See, I said to myself, millions of people are going through the same thing today and you see a solution. If you do not act on this solution, then you're not responsible, you're not fulfilling your responsibility and you're, you know, you are not doing what it needs to be done. And if you don't do it, then no one will do it. And can you really live with yourself? You know, after five, 10 years, the solution does not exist and these people are going through the same chaos just because you were ignorant.
And then that was a spark that basically fueled everything. And I said, you know what? This is not going to work. And event. Initially it was more the candid experience. My problem was because the inhumanity really, really bothered. But then when I had to recruit for my own startup, I had 2,000 resumes in front of me. And I remember looking at those resumes and being like, how do I understand who I should interview Those tell me nothing about who a person is. It was in 2019, I had to create my first resume and I remember looking at that one pager when it was done and I hated it.
It was almost like, I'm going to destroy you. You're telling nothing about me to that employer. You're not telling the value that I can bring, how much of an asset can be. You're reducing me to these data points that don't actually translate to business outcomes, to actionable data, and you also don't know the contextual information about how I was able to like achieve those goals in the organisations that I've supported in. So I've always had a problem with resume ever since I created one. And I also had these experiences where I was constantly rejected and ghosting is also like a must. So I found myself just holistically picturing what is actually going on in each of those steps and then actually living them and then seeing what would be a better way so that we can actually build the bridge that should have existed, all of them. And that's really my motivation.
And I was lucky to meet my co founder who's a technical end of things and I'm so lucky because he has been the co founder that I always dreamed of that I would have.
Yeah, great. What you're saying that candidate experience sucks, doesn't it? I've never had a great candid experience yet. I'm not saying never, but yet not the one that jumps out to me. But as you, as you pointed out there that you know, in your own startup you had a thousand, two thousand applicants. It's hard to be specific and give great feedback to 2000 people or whatever it is. And we think about large organisations who are hiring at scale, big, well known brands, they just, they just get inundated. So the first sift that, that first gatekeeping is almost like a instant rejection. You're lucky if you get that within an hour or you never get it at all.
So how can we start thinking in a more candidate centric way? Because studies have shown that often candidates are also clients and customers. So if we don't treat our candidates right, that can damage our brand, can't it?
Absolutely. I love how you put it. And there was a quote by a Forbes HR council member who says that we have built our current recruitment tools to reject candidates and not to select them. And having been a recruiter, recruiter, like today for example, when I talk to recruiters and employers and asking if they're currently posting their jobs, they're telling me no and particularly they're not posting on LinkedIn. LinkedIn used to be an asset for those people, but now it's not because they're telling me, you know, if I do well, I'm just going to get spam applications and people who haven't read my job descriptions don't meet the qualification and I'm just going to be wasting my time there. When you're a recruiter, when you see an applicant tracking system, it's really true, like you're trying to get rid of the unqualified pipeline as fast as possible. And that means a lot of people are falling through the cracks. And again, like, the get rid doesn't mean that you're trying to sort of, you know, be inhumane in that process.
But you're a recruiter. Like, imagine that you're going after or have two roles that you're hiring for. Let's say you're hiring for a software engineer and a product manager. And if you're getting 500 applications for each of them, what you're going to do, you're going to use filtering, keyword search, boolean. That's what we were taught to do, that's how the systems work. But if I don't know how to format my resume, like I have experienced this and I've also seen this happening. Hiring managers look at a resume format of resume and they tell me, no, there is no way that I'm gonna allow that candidate to be moved forward in the process. Resumes are not standardised.
You know, like, without the standardisation, how do you compare, like apples to, you know, pears or apples to cherries? And essentially that's, that's what we're trying to do. The only thing that we have been focusing on is actually the actionable data part, which resumes were supposed to focus on, but again, missing a lot of contextual information, behavioural information and hundreds of more data points that I can hear count. So coming back to the employer brand, I mean, you go to a Glassdoor page and now candidates are talking about their interview experiences openly. If you've interviewed in a company, candidate has now become a YouTuber and they're going to be publicly speaking about the experience, experiences that they just had. Your employers, first, sorry, employers are advocates for you, but then the second advocates for your brand identity. Your employer brand is candidates. And if you don't value those people, then they're going to talk about it. Let's say, you know, you're a McKinsey and you had this horrible experience with McKinsey as a candidate, that candidate is going to be talking to their closest circle and now they are going to think twice when they're applying to McKinsey, no matter how good the brand is, because it really is based on trust.
And if you don't build that trust effectively right in the beginning, if you don't value those candidates, then those candidates are not going to be applying to you. So you're going to be starting to miss out on the top talent in the market and your competitors would get them just because they Care just because they're creating those right. Candid experiences. And let me give you another data here. So the researchers looked at what really predicts retention and growth after those candidates are hired. And candidate experience is the core and you know, it's predicted by 90% of HR people that actually says candidate experience is a core predictor of retention and growth. And if you don't nail that, then how can you expect to retain those, you know, candidates that you hire as employees? Like it's a way to build trust. It's to build a way to build that commitment, to show this is how it's like when you become an employee with us, when you're an employee with us.
And if you're saying that this is how it looks like and we won't care about you when you're an employee, then how as a potential employee, I can build a trust that you will train me with the right resources, that you will create the right environment for me to work in, that you will create growth opportunities for me, that I will be compensated fairly. You're shaking all of these foundations before they are even built if you don't have the right candidate experience. So that's essentially how it translates to, you know, the dignity influences on your employer brand.
You mentioned something in there, trust. And I'm, I'm a great advocate for trust has to be inherent in the process. We talk about psychological safety. There has to be psychological safety in the hiring process, in the candidate experience as well. The problem is you said this when you were talking about your own application journey. All Those thousands of CVs, thousands of applications you made, you got to the end in that process and you had zero faith or trust in the system. That almost like why should I bother submitting another application? Because you had been so bruised and damaged by the past experience, you think, well, this is just pointless doing it. So your trust was at an all time low, that you were going to be given a fair hearing, treated fairly, whatever it was.
So as recruiters, whether you're agency, RPO or in house, how could you reach out and bring that trust in back into the process?
So it really starts with the first experience, like in your career space probably is the first place that the candidate is going to look at like a day in life, how the culture looks like. And you shouldn't use like buzzwords. It's not about for example, like leadership, but what that leadership means to you. For example, maybe you believe leadership should be shared or how, you know, how do you empower those people in your Organisations and real time testimonials of them, like people hire people. That's something that we've forgotten in the process and we have to bring this back. And starting from that careers page, everything on the website has to be optimised. You have to position yourself as, you know, answering why I should work for you, why I should work with you, what exciting mission are you working on that I should get excited about? And then when I scroll through the caregivers page, I should be able to see the growth opportunities that are waiting for me. And not only that, this is only done by so many, few employers.
For example, I think Johnson and Partners in the uk, I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing their name correctly, but they're a retail brand and they have been the most transparent organisation that basically said, these are the stages that are waiting for you, these are the kind of questions that you will be asked and in each step, this is the person you will be speaking to. And to succeed, these are the things that we will be looking out for. Now you're prepared, but many of the interviews don't prepare organisations and candidates for this. So candidates don't have the data. Like you get an interview request. Why do you want to talk to me? Is this a first hiring manager interview? Is a recruiter going to be talking to me like, what am I asked to, like, answer? Am I asked to just, you know, participate in a live case study that I don't know nothing about and then I find out on the spot and then I'm asked to say submit something in an hour and I know that's just impossible. So candidates are set to fail, almost like you're setting your candidates to fail, which is so ironic. And then the job description, like, the job description is not only something that shows what the day to day looks like and what you expect from that candidate, from that potential employee to achieve, but also a way to position how it is like to work for you.
Like the mission that you're passionate about, the impact that you've created. How many organisations have you helped? You know, for example, for us it's candidate experiences, it's the brands that we're able to help them humanise recruitment. Our change makers, our partners, show how that narrative looks like, like give them an insider perspective. You know something that's really ironic, when I got those 2,000 resumes as a startup, as a recruiter for the first time, in my first startup, we had an employer brand before the product itself, before an mvp, we were working from Five different time zones. It was, it was a mess. But the way that we positioned our vision resonated so deeply with people that they went on and apply and that was not it. After they applied, I actually had a 20% like of the people filling out an eight section form that I have prepared to be able to assess candidates. And that process look entirely different from any of the interview processes that I've been to because I couldn't find any of those answers in the resumes.
Then more, you know, around 200 people actually went on and completed that. And one person gave me this feedback that it actually took them four hours to complete that form. And the reason is it's not because it was that long, but it's because people were not used to being given that space, that opportunity. The eight section forum looked like, okay, like I see that you're a current student or a mid level, like professional, but what do you want to do? Like it was more reflective. How can I support you? What are the areas that you want to grow in? What are your skill sets like? You know, having people break down themselves as a spot and it was a reflective opportunity for them that many of those, you know, people who worked with me were able to understand what kind of a career that they wanted to pursue. And I'm going to tell this as a recruiter. Majority of the people, especially juniors and even middles, they don't know what they want. And it's your opportunity to help them reflect to, you know, have a more coaching style of interview where they're able to understand this because then you hire them and then they realise that job is not right for them.
So help them understand. We treated those interview processes as transactional and as an interrogation, you know, sort of, you know, model where the hierarchy is always, I as a recruiter have, you know, the upper hand until the candidate gets to the point of salary and then things change. But it is a partnership. I, as a recruiter am assessing a potential employee that I should be excited for the hiring manager that I'm supporting to, you know, to be working with. I am assessing that fit. And as a recruiter, focusing on a strategy, the more you work with that hiring manager, if you're for example, not the more that you understand their expectations, the more you understand what kind of a leader, a mentor that person would be. So now you're hiring their report. Everything really is based on that human connection.
And then we're trying to remove those human loops from the process and then automate them so humans are not able to make the right hiring decisions. How can AI make the right hiring decisions if you remove human from the process? So, long story short, it's really about creating that insider perspective. How is it like working for your employer, working for your organisation? And as a recruiter, how has your experience been like? All these things are very, very simple and easy to do. It takes a minute to add that something in, but it makes all the difference. And candidates really feel like there is a human behind the keyboard who will be assessing their application.
Going back to what you're saying there about you get the resume, the CV in and you're trying to extract this data and you're saying it's not geared up to actually give you the soul or the personality or the heart of that individual, which is what we really ideally want to be. Hiring people, not paper, not numbers. I always think about the CV is very historical. It's a Wikipedia. It's not saying anything about you. We've kind of evolved the CV to be this master document of my life. This is what I've done. I'm a great believer in not how did you questions or what have you done questions.
It's what would you do? How would you approach this? Or what's your thinking behind this scenario? Which the CV doesn't show you? Which is why a lot more modern recruitment practises anonymizing. They're using workplace samples, they're using five or six how would you questions which actually require more effort from the candidate because they can't just bombard you with their CV on auto, they have to actually look at these questions now. And that can actually filter candidates out because. Oh, that's too difficult. That's too difficult. But if you actually put the effort into crafting that great workplace sample, how would you tackle this challenging situation? How would you tackle the data centre just gone down and you've got customers screaming at you. How would you handle that situation? What would you do first? That's for getting into the mindset of the candidate and then we can see what a valuable resource they would be in a crisis, in a. In a team environment, what their personality is, isn't it? That's what we want to find out.
I love that. And that made me. That brings me to this. Like psychometric assessments that enterprises leverage really heavily and then cannot feel insecure at that point because they're thinking there is a behavioural example that they're asking to answer. For example, you know, your colleague just stole something from the office, what would you do? And then there Are like four different like, answers to that. Like, do you protect your, you know, colleague because they're your colleague and you stand with them? Do you report that to the hr? Do you, like, ask them to, you know, return that? All of these things say something about your behavioural characteristics, your personality. But these tests are not, you know, leveraged in a way that creates psychological safety for a candidate. Because you're standing in front of that screen and you're thinking to yourself, what is the right answer? Like, because there are different right answers in that particular situation.
Maybe the employer is trying to assess your loyalty there, maybe they're looking for your, like, work ethics. If you're assessing loyalty, then you should ideally support your colleague who stole something from the organisation. But from the business perspective you shouldn't do that, but you don't know what they're assessing. So the psychological safety, I think is, is really making things difficult for the candidate. Like, I understand that I'm being assessed right now, but what are you really looking to get from me? Like, what is it that you're really assessing? And I understand all these like, cheating measures and sort of really trying to create an unbiased environment from a psychological experimenting perspective. And that's where we took these like, studies from. Essentially all these psychometric assessment softwares that you see now, they were one psychological experiments and essentially we learned from that data and now we basically productize them. But I think that candidates are not feeling safe with that and it's, it's, it's not happening.
I think it's a bit like when you use ChatGPT or an AI system. What you do at the beginning is you say you are an expert this and your role is to design that. When you do the psychometric test is you think, well, what am I applying for? I'm applying to be a programmer, a coder, therefore I'm going to put my head in that mode. If you're hiring me to be head of security or HR or audit, then I'll have a different answer because, you know, you want me to grass up your teammate. You want to be ultimately security focused, company focused, but if you're in a small team, you want this person to maybe talk to the person that's committed the wrongdoing and say, look, you really shouldn't have done that. I don't want to be the one that grasses you up. Why don't you go and hand it back or be honest yourself and coach them into that without colluding. So you want a different approach, so you just Got to put your head in the mind of, of the job you're applying for.
And you could. People say you can't cheat these systems, but I think if you've, if you've got enough intelligence, you can move your brain into a space where you're thinking and acting in the model. You have to act. So yeah, and I think what we're doing is we're almost forcing people to act and we talk about bring your whole self to work. You don't actually want my whole self. You want this narrow bit that fits into your definition.
Yeah, fully agree. And like recruiters are essentially like prone to look for red flags rather than, you know, the things that they like about the candidate that helps them move to, to the next stage.
It's down to risk though, isn't it, the recruiter, if it can. If the recruiter's got two good candidates, it will come down to which one am I most comfortable, which one is least risk. And that is often a bias. It's that gut feel, it's that spider sense. Oh, I just feel it. You rub the paper, you go, this candidate just feels better to me. For whatever reason, all those biases come out, don't they? So we have to recognise that that personal bias has a huge influence on two identical candidates or even two candidates that are very close. You make a, I can't take the risk.
If I hire this person, it goes wrong, people are gonna blame me. People are self protectionist as well. It's human nature.
Yeah, yeah. But I think that again, like it comes back to what we evolve recruitment into. And that has become today, unfortunately, rejecting candidates because like if 500 people are applying, you have one opening. It's really, really, really difficult to get to that top 10 when you're able to like say, okay, now it's the top five and top two. And then you also have to like have candidates, you have to, you know, keep them waiting on the sign because maybe someone will reject the offer. And now you have to be like thinking about your next move as a recruiter. But I think like recruitment has been evolved in a way that something that this candidate does is right and wrong. But I think that it should be focusing on the differences, like how would this candidate think about the situation? And maybe their way of thinking is particularly right for a company that is in a, in a different stage than ours.
And that's completely okay. If you think that is, then, then you know, you have to give them the feedback and that would be really helpful to them so that they can go out and seek the right jobs for them. But going back to iOS, you need data. There is nothing in the process that is removing those biases. Like we have software today that removes for example, like the names of the candidates and like the contact information. We had the DEI software that focused on reporting measures. So it was more like do you want more females in your organisation now or do you want more diversity? And diversity was diversity in a way that it was healthy, but it was more like, hey, this, you know, Mr. Government, this is the type of employees I hire now, you know, like give me more funds.
And I don't think that that's, that's the right way to go about diversity. Inclusion has to be, you know, for all the candidates that you're putting in the process for. And if, for example, I'm a neurodiverse candidate, I don't always do well in the interview. My brain works differently and recruiter can say that my thoughts are unstructured, I don't know what I'm talking about. And for example, it is on you to like set those candidates for success, like send them the questions that you want to ask in advance and then the candidate could then have the risk basically to, you know, read things from ChatGPT. And we have things that are happening, but the candidates are doing this because their trust is entirely gone in recruiters. Like we're talking to people today and they're rather wanting to be assessed by an AI than a recruiter because those recruiters are making them go through like horrible candid experiences. And I think that's a pledge that we all have to take.
Like, you know what, I understand that things have been really hard, but to rebuild this trust we have to work together. And I think that that's, that's really how things can move forward. Because I cannot be like these people are adults. When you look at it like the anti cheating measures and tracking softwares to me feels just utterly dystopian. And I personally don't want them in my hiring process because I, if I don't trust my candidate and they know that I don't trust them, how can you empower them as employees to do what's right when push comes down the show, when they need to take an incentive, macromanagement doesn't lead to success. We all know this. And then the question all comes to like remote work and on site and everything else, but I don't think that's the way to go. So we have to focus on rebuilding that trust.
I think to overcome Those biases.
I used to do a lot of work with smart recruiters. I went to a lot of their conferences, spoke at a lot of their conferences. Pre Covid I got to know their founder and CEO Jerome quite well and he talks about these three dimensions of hiring success as he would put it. So you've got the cost per hire, the hiring velocity and the candidate experience and they can't all be high. Sorry, you can't have. You've got to balance those. If you want great candidate experience, you can't do it cheaply. If you want higher velocity at a pace, you can't do it cheaply without sacrificing candidate experience.
So you've got that three legged stool. If you're not careful, what you end up doing is trading off for speed and velocity because you've got empty seat costs, you've got need to fill that vacancy. Therefore you're not going to think about diverse hiring best practise because you've got to get somebody in that chair. You know, you know you've got a three month lead time once you've made the offer and you want. So basically this is a six month hiring hiring cycle and you want someone now. So you can't do it cheap, you can't, you know, you can't do it quick, you can't do it take your time, do it properly. You can do experiences going to be rubbish because you're just firing people in, filling them up and you just kind of pick what you've got. So how do you balance those things and actually which is the most important candidate experience, cost per hire or velocity? Which one do you sacrifice or should you?
I think that it's not the question of a sacrifice, but I think these things are interconnected. Like this is a system that you're talking about and I think that if you nail candidate experience then essentially you're reducing your cost for all things involved. And the reason is because you're attracting the right candidates for you because those candidates are essentially pre qualifying themselves and they now know what kind of an organisation that they will be working in. So you're really getting engaged candidates which essentially makes you not repeat the hiring process over again and basically double your hiring costs. So when investing your in your candidate experience, you're actually fixing all of them in terms of the velocity. I think that really depends on what kind of a role that you're hiring for. But every role like should look different. What kind of a case study will you be like leveraging for example, because you also need to, to focus on how to understand how to candidate things but without, you know, basically making them do unpaid labour, which is, which is a massive like concern in candidates today.
So maybe you compensate those case studies that might be, you know, costly but then you basically say, you know what, I'm gonna send only to like the 10 candidates that I know who might be qualified for the position. I think that investing in candidate experience makes you attract the right candidates and those right candidates are now engaged. So now you are able to move much faster because you're in attracting them to your inbound. So this means that you don't have to go out and seek those candidates on LinkedIn, message them and outreach. It really takes so much time and even recruiters get ghosted here. Like ghosting is not just for candidates at this point. Candidates also as a response can try to like ghost recruiters because of what is going on in the current job market. So I think that candidate experience ultimately reduces your costs.
But if you like treat it right, if you don't understand how candid experience is positioned within your greater hiring strategy and how the hiring experience will look like and how different stages will basically need different stakeholders to engage. For example, maybe a hiring manager did like sends to send the feedback, needs to send the feedback or a recruiter needs to collaborate with another recruiter. Maybe there is a decision making. So if you structure those and essentially you will be able to move much faster, much faster in this process. But again I think that candid experience is not costly as people think. Writing that one line of this is what our culture looks like in a day to day. You know, we for example, like describe someone's day to day. Like I wake up, I get my coffee, I start my day in xyz, where are they working from? Maybe you are like giving like remote work opportunities.
So share their real life experiences of a successful employee profile so that the candidate can see, well I'm represented there or not represented there. So the people who actually read your job descriptions will be resonating with that and essentially they will be the ones who apply and you will be reducing on all costs included. Like you don't need to invest in a software to do this. So I really think that it's really about focusing on maintaining that human connection and it is not as costly as you think and you really don't need to invest in a specialist software, especially if you're a small organisation.
What we talk about here is it's the early stage of the sift, it's the talent attraction Element, the employer brand, making sure that people resonate with you. Do the data gathering and then we're doing the long list, down to the short list of 10 candidates. We haven't actually met these people yet, have we really, in most of these cases. And I'm a great believer when I'm a candidate, I just want to meet you. Get me off of the paper, get me off of the, off of the, the ats, into your face. Because I could, I know I can sell myself, I can smile, I can engage, I can adapt, I can be a chameleon around what you need face to face. But if I'm, if I'm trying to argue on a bit of paper, that's not me, I can't, I'm not interested. I want the human connection.
So how do we give candidates more face to face time without it being burdensome? Because as you say, you see horror stories of organisations that get people in for 10 interviews. They want you to do this presentation, they want you to do this work summary, they want you to write an application or design something for them. Blimey, I'm doing all this work. And then you get this feeling that they're actually using you as a prototype. If you're marketing, they want to see who's got the best marketing idea. And even though they don't hire, they still pinch your idea. So people are worried about their own intellectual property at this stage as well, aren't they?
I think the best thing that you can do is actually find out who you will be working with and then reach out to that person directly. But then like, for example, as a recruiter, you will get a lot of messages and I don't think that going to the recruiter will still like get you on, on the top of the pile. A recruiter won't remember each of the few thousand candidates who applied. But message the recruiter, yes, they will go out and check with you, but they might not be able to assess your competency because you have to remember that a recruiter is not a specialist. So if I'm helping the, let's say, lead product manager hire an associate product manager. I have not been a product manager myself and as much as I can talk to the like hiring manager, I still don't have the nuances of what they're seeking. So go directly to the hiring manager saying, hey, I've applied, I'm really excited because your mission really resonates with me or the product that you're working really relates to my experiences or the areas that I Want to grow. Here are some of the things that I've achieved and I would be really grateful for a response or basically directly going to that person who you will be meeting with.
If you're involved, then if they like it, then you basically will get an interview and hiring manager will be the one to prompt it. In the current process, unfortunately, this is the shortest cut, the shortest pathway. This is not ideal, absolutely not ideal. Especially if a load of thousand candidates in the pipeline end up doing this. So you really have to like, mindful about the message that you're writing and you should give them actionable data. Like as a candidate, you have to remember that the employer is looking for actionable data. What makes you the right fit for that position? And you know, how do you become that successful employee profile? I think that's really important. And don't be like forceful in your messages, like that's, that's not going to leave a good impression.
Or don't tell the recruiter, hey, you haven't like checked my response in like two weeks. The recruiter is probably drowning in applications. No recruiter wants to leave the messages unanswered or leave the applications unanswered. But sometimes they're stuck because the hiring manager says, you know what, I need a week because I have X, Y, Z to finish in my current operations. So the hiring process extends for another week and then another week. The recruiter is really the frontline person here who doesn't have much control in, you know, the internal operations, but she is the one, or he is the one that is representing whatever that is going on and maintaining those communication processes with you.
But we know that in big organisations, suddenly that role goes on hold, the project gets cancelled, or there's another thing going on in the organisation, a merger or a diversification. So the recruiter sat there in the middle of this project, recruitment project, and suddenly he's got Austria. He's got no idea what's going on around them. So, yeah, as a candidate you're obviously thinking, well, they must be ready to hire. But that's not always the case. And some of them, sometimes they're speculative. Go to market, just see who's out there as well, aren't they? So they're not, they're not all. I know it's a bit unethical to do speculative job seekers and just to get people in, but it does happen.
People are testing the market. They want to know, if we were to open an office in this new city, what's our likely response rate? So you Might want to put stuff out there, you know, fly a kite, as they say, just to see what the interest is.
Absolutely. I think that one unethical practise that I really hope we can like put to an end. Put an end to. And LinkedIn has been taking some action against this, but it's really, really hard to know, especially when you're a validated employer. Ghost posting. Like the jobs that are not actually real and the main intention of that is actually increasing the amount of LinkedIn followers because if you do not opt out, then essentially as a candidate you follow the employer and then that basically increases their follower count. So the marketing team seems this as a shortcut. I'm really sorry, but this is, this is what's going on.
So you have to understand whether that job is real. And it's really hard to, to do.
Now. Everyone's. We've got to remember that recruitment is sales and marketing. It's. It's like buying or selling a house. It's like anything you're. You're just trying to match needs and, and resources and yeah, it's. Some people are ethical, some people aren't ethical, or some people bend the ethics to suit their own definition.
So people will use any, any sales technique. And you gotta remember that you're. Whilst you're the most important person to you, you're not the most important person to the recruiter. The recruiter's bosses, who they're trying to hire for is. That is their client. Really, you are just the plate of chips in McDonald's. You're just the food at the end of the day. And the recruiter decides whether you want chips or whether you want jacket potato.
It's trying to get into that mindset that you're not special, you're just one of a whole pile of people.
I think that's where it is, but I think that's where we went wrong. Like, again, the transactionalism, it must come to an end if you're being hired by a recruitment agency. If you're a candidate and a recruitment agency recruiter has seeked you out, the process will look like entirely different and the candidate experience will be relatively better because you. I don't know how to put it like this way. You said the food, so I'm just going to use that. But essentially you are valuable because if you get hired, then they get a bounty of that or a commission of that, so they need you to get hired. But again, like, if you, if they think that you're the right fit, then you're going to be seeing the top candidate experience possible from that recruiter. But I really think that again, like, we have to reestablish recruitment as a partnership.
Like, it's not just me who is getting hired, but I'm also hiring you as an employer. Like I'm basically saying I have all of these great skills, great qualifications, and if you work with me, these are the things your organisation is going to be achieving and these are the areas that I can grow myself in. And it's really about meeting in the middle. Like it's not. One gets the upper hand and the other fights against it. And I think that mentality led us here, really. We have to focus on rebuilding the bridge and we have to understand and re establish recruitment as a partnership.
So you touched on AI earlier. I'm reading these posts on LinkedIn and other forums around recruitment and what we're ending up in is an AI bot talking to an AI bot. We look at all these no code platforms, Zapier, Pabli, mate.com, all these sort of things. You can build all this stuff that will scrape job listings, take the, the requirements, take your Persona and merge it and produce that and then email the recruiter off. Then the recruiter's got this ATS that sucks of that in AI pre processes, it matches against the job spec and then if you're good enough, you do. So are we going to be in a market where in the old days it was? If I pay $150, I can get someone to write my CV for me. That will be ATS Friendly Keyword Boolean. They'll redo my LinkedIn profile so I'll send more chance.
Now you're going to have AI, no code, people writing automation scripts to say, right, you pay me a thousand bucks and I'll get you in there and I'll target you and I'll guarantee you'll be submitted to, I don't know, 50 a day and it'll be individually tailored and then we're just ending up in a world where it's like super catfishing, isn't it? On dating sites where you just, when you finally meet each other, you go, oh, who are you? That's what we're going to end up, isn't it?
I love how you put it. One recruiter said to us, like, it's almost like in among those 500 candidates, I'm looking for a simple human being because, like ChatGPT, like it's almost a new form of language where everyone just like Knows it as they see it, like they call it out. As a recruiter, I know like instantly when a cover letter is generated by GPT. Like, and I'm not against GPT being used like in that process. Of course, like, use that, of course paraphrase it. But if you're not putting any additional effort, then, then like, how do I know as a potential employee you will be putting that effort? So like, if I'm not looking to hire someone like average, I'm looking for someone exceptional in that process. And you're essentially telling me that you're not the exceptional person that I'm looking to hire. So you're essentially wasting your own time and going back to your question.
So there is a data just before, like even these automation tools came in for, for candidates. 70% of candidates today already like lied or exaggerated facts in their resumes. We know this. So who you end up hiring or the sort of, you know, moving in the processes.
But. Sorry to interrupt, but. But 70% of organisations and companies lie about the job as well. So it's, it's two people bullshitting each other, isn't it? We're both selling. That's what we're doing. We're both selling an opportunity.
Yeah, that's, that's absolutely true. And you know, going back to it, it's, it's really now hard because we know that AI hallucinates. Like, I've tried these tools myself as well. Like it tells the, you know, the AI tool that I'm able to speak like Dutch, French and German and applies to all these positions that I'm not qualified for. And then I see the LLM as written, you know, the paragraphs. And then, you know, it just doesn't make any sense. And the recruiters are, you know, seeing them and being like, no, absolutely not. AI is not necessarily processing the applications today, which is really the hardest part because like, governments have serious consequences know against it.
They're basically telling you AI cannot make employment decisions. Like, there is critical, you know, laws around this where you, you have to see each of the resumes that are, that are being passed on and filtering out is one way. And AI is able to currently like summarise or pull like information of those resumes and score them. But it cannot and should not make hiring decisions because you still require that human judgement in the process. But again, like the employers, again, that's why we have to focus on building that bridge. Like, how do we meet in the middle and stop BSing each other in this game?
So if you Start talking right at the very beginning about trying to see me as a human being in this process. And one thing I've always wanted to happen is you apply for an organisation and they say, actually now we've met you, we think you might be better for this role or this role or this role. Can we talk to you about other things we do in our organisation? So hiring into a talent pool if you like, or fishing people into this talent pool where they start to evaluate you, where they have a whole smorgasbord, to use a Finnish or Swedish word, of opportunities here we want to see where you fit in the organisation because actually we want to hire you because you're a great asset to our company. And then once you're here, we'll figure out what to do with you. And I say, look, give me a job and then figure out what to do with me because I'll, I'll evolve into it as well. And if you think about quite the best organisations, there's job share opportunities, there's career pivoting, there's moving into different areas of the business. Why can't I do that on the way in rather than have to wait till I'm there to do that?
It's a great question. Personally, my opinion is that those talent pools do not work. Like the initial reason that, you know, those recruiters or employers in general are building those pipelines is because rather talent pools is because, so that they can have access and essentially reduce the candidate acquisition cost because then they have to do recruitment marketing and then that means another investment to their recruitment budget. But most of those candidates never even get contacted and then, you know, it just becomes a reporting metric again. I think that what you're saying makes a lot of sense. There is one person, Constanti, who has been working on this for the last 20 years and he says that you essentially, you know, hire someone and they become the perfect employee. Like you cannot expect for a candidate to, you know, fill all the boxes before you hire them because you train them and they evolve into the job as you mentioned, but we don't have any tools today that focus on that evolution, that growth potential. And that's exactly one of the gaps that we want to fill in with Octopus.
And essentially like you don't have the data as a recruiter to show, hey, you know, like Joanne is going to be growing to, to these areas or this person is inclined, inclined to grow in XYZ directions and they can therefore like create value for, for your business. It's, it's really Hard to assess that, especially when you have so limited data that is, that is not actionable.
But what a lot of progressive companies, I'd argue they're progressive, is they're building their own academies. So they're. Whether you want to call it later life apprenticeships, whether you want to. Whatever you want to call it, recognising that you don't always make the right decision when you go to college, when you go to university, when you're 25, you think, I don't want to be a chef, I want to be an engineer. And all of those early career opportunities suddenly disappear, whereas some of the smarter companies are looking and saying, okay, if you're a returning parent in your 40s, whether you've been very redundant in your 50s, whether you're. Wherever you are in your life, we're looking for fantastic people in our organisation. And in the same way, if you wanted to train to be a doctor, you go into a hospital and you do rotation around all the different departments. Actually, I want to be a brain surgeon or no, I want to be in geriatrics, I want to be in this, I want to be in that.
So you specialise once you've done your baseline qualifications. So if organisations were looking at building talent academies, which is more active than a passive talent pool, I'm not talking about a marketing database, I'm talking about active opportunities to get people in who are seen as great assets to the organisation, and then we'll build you and nurture you into positions and we maybe discover in the first three months, actually, you can go this way instead. That gives people an opportunity to get back into the job market for the depression that you felt into working with an organisation. You're going to be loyal. I mean, just think about the investment they're giving you and the investment you want to give back, that loyalty you're going to give. Because there's trust there, isn't there?
That's true, but that also takes a lot of investment. Like, you know, a number of enterprises today would be able to invest in such a large. Because when you look at the LND power behind it and all those people who have to, like, if they're able to build those, you know, specific targeted academies, it means that they have figured out their own kind of like the, the role structures, like their L1s to L5, how does L5 look like for me versus how does it look like for you? But then your seeds say startup and you're like, okay, you have to wear so many hats and you cannot necessarily focus on, on that transition. So I think that if an expectation from the candidate is towards more structure and towards that flexibility, you know, you might enjoy wearing the hats, but maybe you will realise that you want to do something more specific so you have the more freedom and also safety in enterprises, I would say. And that's why it's really important to like, assess the behavioural characteristics of a person. One thing that I really focus on in my interviews, for example, do you feel more comfortable in structured environments, structured tasks where like, you don't have to deal with abstract instructions and you essentially are doing something with, you know, like assigned training manual. And now there is not much uncertainty there. But there are also some people who love that uncertainty.
For example, me, like, give me the biggest, most complex problem and I'd rather solve that on my own than, you know, go from point A to B repetitively. But for some people, they want to specialise from like going on A to B, for example, let's say creating marketing campaigns in that specific area, maybe they want to specialise on Google Ads. So it's really, as you know, we are very different as individual differences. And I think that in terms of that flexibility, not every organisation will be able to provide that. And it's important for candidates to also recognise that as they're applying, because if that's an expectation and you're applying to a startup who recently got funded and they're in a seat and even like series A round, they won't be able to provide the same flexibility. But if you, for example, go to a more mature environment, let's say startup who's raised their like series C, series D, series E, then you're really talking about that enterprise structure where you're able to see how those roles and expectations have evolved, how other people perform. Because like all that, academies are built on the previous experiences. What did I learn internally that I can translate to, you know, external resources to attract the right talent for me, but if I lack that learning, then I essentially can't build the right funnels that I will be able to attract the right icp, the ideal candidate Persona, who will then transform into my successful employee Persona.
Yeah, it's not easy, is it? It's not easy. And you say, do I want structure? I love living in a world with chaos. It allows me to create, lets me to ideate, allows me to spitball blue sky, think whatever it is, but that's all well and good until you actually want me to deliver something for you, because my chaos is going to be different to your chaos. My expectations. Your expectations are going to be different. So the moment I have to deliver something, my first question is, let's nail it down. I don't want chaos at this point, I want certainty. Because if I'm going to have to work something and deliver you something, I want certainty.
And I think it depends on the role, doesn't it? If you're looking for an R and D with unlimited budget, what we could do is sit there and drink coffee and ideate. Or whether you actually want a project team that's going to come up with something. You have your agile phase, you have your bit of ideations. I think the candidates you're going to.
Get.
You want them to be able to swap between those contexts, don't you? As well? So you can't always find that out from a bit of paper in the interview. Do you like structure or do you like chaos, as you say? My answer would be, I like both. But it depends on what you want at the time you want it. The recruitment process we have, it's just. It's not fit for purposes. It was still reliant on the cv. I often train organisations around modern contemporary recruitment practises, which is. It's not just anonymizing the cv, it's just don't have one.
And using workplace samples, using the five questions, 400 words each, then grading them against predefined metrics and follow that process all the way through to interview and each level and having a diversity of thought on those questions and answers as well. But I still come back when I'm in boardrooms talking to people and they say, well, how do I know who they are without their cv? Well, you don't. You have to trust. You have to trust the process. What if we hire someone and I find out something later because I haven't got this cv? You have to trust the process. But people are so wedded to this document that we created in the 80s when, with fax machines before then, we used to fill them in by hand, didn't we? We used to fill application forms in and then the fax machine arrived and we started printing stuff out and faxing it to each other.
Yeah, the first ever example like that is considered. The first resume was actually created by Da Vinci. So that old we were speaking about and he was wanting to work in an architectural project, so he had to like summarise what he has done and that's the first experience and it comes from like, resume, resume to. To summarise. So essentially, like, you resum raising the things that you've done in a more digestible manner. So that, that was the earliest example. And I think that like resumes worked until some point because I think that we were still focusing on that, you know, the human element of it. But then with tech we couldn't figure out how to marry that technology with our emotional intelligence.
And I think that's the challenge that we're facing today. Like we have to be efficient. Yes. But at the cost of that, you know, human touch, we became efficient. So looking at the history of resume, when from, from your point, you used to mail those resumes into organisations and then you would never hear back if you were rejected because how can I send 500 replies? And like mail was expensive, how can I, you know, like send that back to your address? So I only reach out to people who I'm interested in and would like to speak to. You've naturalise that process down but then come, you know, digitization like the HTML job application portals, the first applicant tracking system, digitising that entire process. The hiring decisions today are still not made on those applicant tracking systems. Which is the most like biggest irony to me because you know, applicant tracking systems cost thousands and thousands of dollars, up to 100,000 or more even like for, for enterprise level organisations and the biggest software providers.
And they're saying that they streamline your recruitment. But if you're not making hiring decisions or if you're not enabled to make those hiring decisions, then what do you streamline? Exactly. Like if that software is not giving that actionable data to you, what do they streamline? Exactly. And what I see is then, you know, because they don't have that actionable data, these tools have empowered us to even build more layers on top of it. So it's now not three processes, not three steps of interviews, but like seven stages where there are case studies involved, system design, interviews, all these different interview processes that I am assessing you and then you're asking, being asked to like resubmit a case study re interview just because they cannot collect the actionable data. And that's where we have to focus on.
And again like, or the recruiters risk averse and they just want to be really, really sure, really, really, really sure. They're almost scared to make a decision sometimes, which is why they want to see you again. It's like oh, I can't sign, let's get them back in for another chance. And yeah, I think some of it is just lack of decision making or.
Structured process, I would say structured process, yes. But without that actionable data you're not able to like move anyone forward. You should be able to say I'm moving John Doe because he was able to demonstrate their XYZ qualifications and meets my qualifications because you know like they want to grow in XYZ areas. Like you should be able to, you know, picture that and position that completely if you're moving that candidate in the process. But I wouldn't say it's a risk aversion and you would do this as a recruiter as well because it costs up to more, more than the annual salary of an employee if they miss hire. So then it even might cost them their job depending on the policy of the organisation. Or it just, you know, leads to drastic.
That's risk aversion, isn't it? That's risk aversion. You know we know that the average 30k salary is cost 130k in on costs of getting it wrong. So there is a risk aversion there. And that people are driven by. I can't mess this up, you know, if this person A is not right for us or we're not right for them. Because that happens as well. You know, you get the rejection on offer, you get the, you get the first 14 days. We think oh this is for me, I'm out that walk out.
So yeah, it's, it is a risk. I think what we're trying to do is we're trying to minimise those risks on both sides. Protect ourselves, protect my own job. And I think some of it is just down to lack of, lack of vigour and data in the application process. We should be able to say that person was good enough. That will do. Stop. Don't need to look any further.
Rather than say oh no, we need to see the next 200 people. I say no, if you've seen the right person after three, stop. Nothing wrong with that. Sorry. We've hired.
I think that like the recruiter has to be constantly moving along and constantly making sure that there's like a backup of that candidate and then expectations are not being communicated well and I think that that's really creating a disconnect. But one more thing about the actionable data side going back to like establishing recruitment as a partnership. I don't know why you're inviting me to a first interview. So what we're doing with OCTOPUS is hey recruiter, this is a real time data that we collected because you've sent this targeted smart pre interview. You have those answers before even meeting that candidate. If they're not the right fit, you won't invest 20 hours for that candidate because they're not qualified for your role. Hey there, candidate. If you're not the right fit and looking at this, you're not feeling happy, we're saving you 20 hours because that's on average the roles expect you to like, invest in and per role.
In today's job market, if you were to pursue five jobs at the same time, that makes 100 hours. And that leads you to burnout. If you're, you know, pursuing all of them at the same week, it's more than double full time job expectations. But that's how long it really takes to pay. So it's really a process that burns, burns out both of the sites. So looking at the partnership again. Hey recruiter, this is the data that we collected. Hey candidate, this is how you were able to demonstrate your skills and qualifications.
Here's how you meet like the expectations. When you're going to that interview, you should know what you've done well, what you have not done well. And now you know how to position yourself. And because you completed that pre interview, you now know what kind of questions that the recruiter is going to ask you. So now you're set to succeed, not set to fail. And that's basically what we want to do. Like then we can really talk about an actionable, structured interview where you're not starting from point zero. Hey, who are you and where do you see yourself in five years? Like those kinds of unstructured interviews that don't lead us to anywhere.
Like if you're assessing the creativity of the calendars, go ahead. But maybe in five years we're going to be dealing with another pandemic and that just doesn't tell me what I can achieve in your organisation in the long and short term. So focus on the competency inside the job performance. Many of the interviews today are structured to assess interview performance and expect that to be translated to job performance, which is again a massive problem. But going back to, you know, that partnership, if both sides have the same data now, then we can really finally talking about them being on the same page and Octopus having built that bridge. And that's why I care about that work so much. Because in every feedback the candidate will get better in every interview. And every feedback that they got from Octopus, who is being the bridge in between them and the recruiters also will figure out how to better collect that actionable data.
So we're not replacing recruiters and AI cannot and should not and will not like It's a human hiring human being. So I would say that's really the core thing that we have to focus on as we focus on building that bridge and building that intersection between the human touch, the emotional intelligence and technology, I think.
So say it's been absolutely fascinating. We could chat all day, I'm sure. So you've mentioned Octopus several times. So you're the founder and CEO of Octopus. Do you want to just give us, in a nutshell, your elevator pitch? What is Octopus?
Absolutely. I've just been talking about that. I should have for that question. But to give you in a nutshell, Octopus, if you're an organisation, helps you move forward only the candidates that are aligned with your qualifications into your pipeline. So you don't have to go through the 500 resumes that don't meet your qualifications and instead send a smart pre interview that is created based on your job description. And from there you will be able to assess the qualifications you're looking for. Automatically. Candidates are going to be submitting their answers to that.
So it's like a text based interview. So and on that they will be positioning themselves and you will have given the space for them to really show what they can do for your organisation and the additional information that they'd like to mention. And then you will be able to access that data real time and all those qualifications will be scored based on your requirements. So everything that you've given us, it's about you. You take that ownership, that flexibility and it's different for every job, every role, every company. And that's why we created Octopus, you know as to be your extra tentacle in this process, because as we say that the problem is so big and massive right now that arms are not solving it. So we develop tentacles. That's our motto.
So we're here to be your extra tentacle and help you make that right, the hiring decision, and essentially build the bridge between the right candidate and you and the. Every candidate who submits that pre interview with you gets a feedback from Octopus saying that this is how they were able to align with your requirements and demonstrate themselves effectively. So in every pre interview that you're sending, you're actually nurturing your talent pool. And those candidates will remember because you've given them feedback. No recruiter today gives candidates automatically the actionable feedback that they're looking for. 90% of them go, so if you're looking to become a top employer, then we'd love to be your extra tentacle.
Fabulous. What a punchline. Let us be your extra tentacle. And we know that octopuses or octopi, they're seriously intelligent creatures, aren't they? That they're. They're smart beyond their means. They're almost like a alien life form because they're so intelligent. Yeah, I think so, the extra tentacle. And with intelligence as well, no doubt.
So lovely.
So, see, it's been fascinating. And if people get hold of you, how can they get hold of an Octopus demo or find out more?
Absolutely. You can reach out to us on our website, which is joinocto.co. So that would be J O I N O C T O . C O. Or you can find me on my LinkedIn, which is C. Guz. So, in any case, I'd love to hear from you. And if you're like, you know, being challenged from, with your current hiring process and overwhelmed by so many tools today, I'd also love to help you, you know, find the right direction. Our goal with Octopus is to, you know, help you and give you ownership that you must and should have as we navigate the age of AI human humanship.
Fabulous. And just if you're listening, C Guz. That's C. You've abbreviated your name because it's Turkish and it's easier for people to say C. So C full stop. And Guz is G U Z. So if you're looking for you on LinkedIn, C Guz. Easy to find you.
Thank you.
Absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
As we bring this conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your ear and heart to the cause of inclusion. Today's discussion struck a chord. Consider subscribing to Inclusion Bites and become part of our ever growing community driving real change. Share this journey with friends, family and colleagues. Let's amplify the voices that matter. Got thoughts, stories, stories or a vision to share? I'm all ears. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk and let's make your voice heard. Until next time, this is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return with more enriching narratives that challenge, inspire and unite us all.
Here's to fostering a more inclusive world one episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.
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Episode Category
Primary Category: Overcoming Adversity
Secondary Category: Female Empowerment
🔖 Titles
From Rejection to Resilience: Humanising Recruitment and Building Trust in Hiring
Humanising the Hiring Process: Turning Setbacks into Inclusive Opportunities
Building Trust and Belonging in Recruitment: Lessons from 13,000 Rejections
Reimagining Candidate Experience: Tackling Rejection, Bias, and Inaccessible Recruitment
Candidate Experience Matters: How Rejections Can Drive Inclusive Organisational Change
Bridging the Gap: Empathy, Feedback, and Trust in Modern Recruitment
Empowerment After No: Human Connections and Inclusion in Hiring
Making Inclusion Tangible: Transforming Recruitment Rejection into Opportunity
Rising From Setbacks: Rethinking Resumes and Building Inclusive Hiring Practices
The Power of Inclusive Recruitment: Trust, Anonymity, and the Human Touch
A Subtitle - A Single Sentence describing this episode
C. Guz explores the journey of turning rejections into opportunities, championing human-centric recruitment, the restoration of trust, and the pivotal role of inclusive candidate experiences in redefining workplace belonging and empowerment.
Episode Tags
Inclusive Recruitment, Candidate Experience, Overcoming Rejection, Human Centred Hiring, Employer Branding, Psychological Safety, Job Search Resilience, Diversity and Belonging, Recruitment Innovation, Empowering Job Seekers
Episode Summary with Intro, Key Points and a Takeaway
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood welcomes C Guz for a bold exploration of turning rejection into opportunity, with a particular focus on transforming the recruitment experience. Against the backdrop of C’s personal journey—enduring over 13,000 job rejections—Joanne and C interrogate what it truly means to humanise the hiring process, discussing the far-reaching impact of inhumane and opaque recruitment systems. C draws upon her experience as both a startup founder and a jobseeker to shed light on the very real harm inflicted by transactional hiring, whilst Joanne challenges the current reliance on impersonal CVs and automated sifting. Together, they unravel how a candidate-centred approach, built on trust and transparency, can serve as the bedrock of inclusive and resilient organisations.
C Guz is an entrepreneur and advocate for inclusive hiring, hailing from Istanbul, who has channelled her experiences of repeated rejection and a turbulent job market into a mission to transform how organisations approach recruitment. As the founder and CEO of Octopus, she has set about creating tools that empower both recruiters and candidates, closing the gap between data-driven efficiency and authentic human connection. C’s global perspective, technical savvy, and relentless pursuit of dignity in hiring practices position her as a leading voice in the campaign for more inclusive, psychologically safe workplaces.
Joanne and C dissect the pitfalls of legacy hiring—ghosting, bias, and the commodification of applicants—while offering tangible ways to nurture engagement and trust. They advocate for actionable feedback, intelligent automation that respects individuality, and processes that allow candidates to genuinely demonstrate their value. Insights into AI and automation, along with the reimagining of talent pooling and development, punctuate the conversation, all circling back to the principle that candidates are people, not mere data points.
This episode’s key takeaway is the imperative to restore humanity and partnership to recruitment. Listeners will gain a nuanced understanding of why trust, transparency, and candidate experience aren’t optional extras, but essential drivers of employer brand, retention, and organisational growth. Tune in for candid discussions that will leave you questioning the status quo and equipped to champion a more inclusive future in hiring.
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 Felt unqualified amid job market chaos; realised responsibility to act on a solution for widespread issues.
08:56 Standardisation is key to comparing data effectively. Many CVs lack contextual and behavioural information. Employer brand relies heavily on candidate experiences shared online. Negative experiences can deter potential applicants, affecting trust regardless of a company's prestigious reputation.
13:27 Johnson and Partners, a UK retail brand, is praised for transparent recruitment by outlining interview stages and expectations, unlike many others that leave candidates unprepared.
19:02 Modern recruitment practices focus on anonymising candidates and assessing them through scenario-based questions and workplace samples to evaluate their problem-solving abilities and personality, beyond what's presented in their CV.
22:01 Adopt the mindset of the job you're applying for during psychometric tests, similar to how you use AI systems.
29:24 Improving candidate experience reduces hiring costs by attracting better-suited candidates, decreasing process repetition, and ensuring engagement without unpaid labour concerns.
34:03 Reach out directly to the hiring manager rather than the recruiter to highlight your interest and relevant experience.
42:11 Recruiters can often identify AI-generated cover letters; they seek candidates who demonstrate effort and exceptional qualities beyond AI assistance.
49:12 Investment in structured environments, like targeted academies, varies between enterprises and startups. Enterprises offer more structure, while startups require multitasking. It's crucial to assess if individuals prefer structured tasks or uncertainty for better role alignment.
50:40 Some prefer solving complex problems independently, while others specialise in repetitive tasks like creating marketing campaigns. Organisations vary in providing flexibility, with mature startups offering more opportunities than newly funded ones. Candidates should consider this when applying, as experience aids in attracting ideal candidates.
01:00:59 Focus on job performance competencies rather than interview performance, using shared data to improve candidate feedback and recruitment processes.
01:02:55 Octopus provides a text-based interview platform allowing organisations to assess candidates' qualifications in real time, offering customisation for different roles and serving as an additional support in recruitment processes.
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 Overcoming Self-Doubt to Act
08:56 "Employer Brand Trust and Candidate Feedback"
13:27 Transparent Hiring Practices Essential
19:02 Modern Recruitment: Evaluating Beyond CVs
22:01 Adapting Mindset for Job Roles
29:24 Enhancing Candidate Experience Reduces Costs
34:03 Contact Hiring Manager Directly
42:11 "Recruiters Seek Genuine Human Touch"
49:12 Balancing Structure and Flexibility
50:40 Flexibility in Career Specialisation
01:00:59 Bridging Interview Performance and Competency
01:02:55 "Octopus: Your Extra Hiring Tentacle"
Custom LinkedIn Post
🎙️ 𝗧𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗪𝗲𝗲𝗸 𝗼𝗻 𝗜𝗻𝗰𝗹𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝗕𝗶𝘁𝗲𝘀: 𝗧𝘂𝗿𝗻𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗥𝗲𝗷𝗲𝗰𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝘀 𝗶𝗻𝘁𝗼 𝗢𝗽𝗽𝗼𝗿𝘁𝘂𝗻𝗶𝘁𝗶𝗲𝘀 🎙️
💡 Ever felt like job search rejections are stacking up faster than your unread emails? What if every “no” was actually fuelling your next big win? Take just 60 seconds to shift your mindset!
This week, I’m joined by the brilliant C. Guz, a female entrepreneur and candidate experience champion on a mission to humanise recruitment for all. With over 13,000 rejections under her belt (yes, you read that right!) C. brings hard-earned wisdom on transforming setbacks into stepping stones.
Together, we explore:
🔑 𝘏𝘰𝘸 𝘳𝘦𝘫𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘧𝘶𝘦𝘭𝘴 𝘳𝘦𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘪𝘨𝘯 – Why a brutal job market sparked C.’s journey into inclusive recruitment innovation.
🔑 𝘊𝘢𝘯𝘥𝘪𝘥𝘢𝘵𝘦 𝘌𝘹𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦 𝘌𝘹𝘱𝘰𝘴𝘦𝘥 – The untold realities of ghosting, bias, and the shocking inhumanity lurking behind most CV sifts.
🔑 𝘏𝘶𝘮𝘢𝘯𝘪𝘴𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘏𝘪𝘳𝘪𝘯𝘨 – Actionable ways to rebuild trust and make recruitment an inclusive partnership, not a numbers game.
Why Listen?
"Inclusion is about understanding, and this episode is packed with insights to help you create more #PositivePeopleExperiences."
About the Podcast
As the host of Inclusion Bites, I release episodes every week to inspire, educate, and challenge perspectives on inclusion and belonging. This 1-minute audiogram is just a taste of how the world of work could work better—for everyone.
What’s your experience? 💭 Have you ever turned a rejection into an opportunity? Comment below 👇 or share your stories of candidate chaos (or success!).
🎧 Tune in to the full episode: https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen
#PositivePeopleExperiences #SmileEngageEducate #InclusionBites #Podcasts #Shorts #InclusiveRecruitment #CandidateExperience #JobSearch #HiringBias #Belonging
Don’t forget to like, subscribe, follow, and share with your network—let’s spark real change together!
with SEE Change Happen and C. Guz
TikTok/Reels/Shorts Video Summary
Focus Keyword: Candidate Experience
Video Title:
Transforming Candidate Experience for Culture Change | #InclusionBitesPodcast
Tags:
candidate experience, culture change, inclusion, diversity, recruitment, job search, positive people experiences, inclusive hiring, employer brand, psychological safety, workplace culture, job seekers, career growth, HR, talent attraction, candidate centric, trust in recruitment, belonging, inclusion podcast, SEE Change Happen, workplace wellbeing, humanise recruitment, recruiter insights, employee retention, workplace transformation
Killer Quote:
"If you don't build that trust effectively right in the beginning, if you don't value those candidates, then those candidates are not going to be applying to you. So you're going to be starting to miss out on the top talent in the market and your competitors would get them just because they care, just because they're creating those right candidate experiences." – C. Guz
Hashtags:
#CandidateExperience, #CultureChange, #InclusionBites, #PositivePeopleExperiences, #Inclusion, #Diversity, #Recruitment, #HumaniseRecruitment, #EmployerBrand, #PsychologicalSafety, #TalentAttraction, #InclusiveHiring, #WorkplaceCulture, #Belonging, #SEEChangeHappen, #HR, #EmployeeRetention, #JobSearch, #WorkplaceWellbeing, #TrustInRecruitment
Summary Description:
Discover why candidate experience is the cornerstone of culture change and Positive People Experiences. In this episode, I delve into transformative insights with C. Guz, an inspiring entrepreneur who turned personal rejection into a mission to humanise recruitment. We challenge the outdated norms in hiring, spotlight the crucial link between trust, psychological safety, and inclusive recruitment, and reveal why treating candidates well is not just good ethics but also smart business. Listen in if you care about fostering culture change, retaining top talent, and driving employee growth from day one. Join the movement, contribute to the conversation, and help build workplaces where everyone can thrive. Want to transform your candidate experience and spark culture change? Tune in now!
Outro:
Thank you for tuning in to Inclusion Bites. If you found this episode valuable, please like and subscribe to our channel for more conversations on inclusion, culture change, and Positive People Experiences. For more resources and upcoming episodes, visit the SEE Change Happen website: https://seechangehappen.co.uk
Listen to the full episode here: The Inclusion Bites Podcast https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen
Stay curious, stay kind, and stay inclusive - Joanne Lockwood
ℹ️ Introduction
Welcome to another compelling episode of the Inclusion Bites Podcast, hosted by Joanne Lockwood. In this episode, "Turning Rejections Into Opportunities," Joanne is joined by C. Guz, a driven entrepreneur and jobseeker based in Istanbul. Together, they unravel the realities of the modern recruitment landscape, exploring how setbacks—like thousands of rejections—can become the catalyst for innovation and systemic change.
C. Guz shares her deeply personal journey of navigating a turbulent job market, facing over 13,000 rejections, and the profound sense of exclusion that motivated her to transform candidate experience. The conversation lays bare the inefficiencies and inhumanity often baked into hiring processes, examining the cost to both individuals and organisations when trust is lost and psychological safety is neglected.
Joanne and C. dive into powerfully human-centered solutions, discussing the pitfalls of traditional CVs, the risks and biases inherent in current systems, and the urgent need for inclusive, candidate-centric recruitment. They challenge listeners to reconsider what true inclusion looks like in hiring, advocate for transparency, actionable feedback, and the rebuilding of trust between recruiters and applicants.
If you’re ready to disrupt the status quo, gain practical insights, and discover how adversity can fuel meaningful change in the world of work, this episode will inspire you to reimagine not only your own career journey but the future of recruitment itself. Tune in, reflect, and join the conversation to help forge a more inclusive working world—one bold conversation at a time.
💬 Keywords
inclusive recruitment, candidate experience, employer branding, job rejection, humanising hiring, CV limitations, psychological safety, trust in recruitment, automation in recruitment, applicant tracking system, AI in hiring, recruitment biases, diversity and inclusion, feedback for candidates, ghosting in recruitment, workplace assessments, talent attraction, interview structure, candidate empowerment, job market challenges, neurodiversity, skills assessment, recruitment technology, active talent pools, behavioural characteristics, employee retention, recruitment marketing, hiring velocity, cost per hire, emotional intelligence in hiring
About this Episode
About The Episode:
In this thought-provoking episode, C. Guz joins the podcast to explore how the sting of repeated rejection in the job market can be transformed into powerful opportunities for inclusion and innovation. Drawing on her substantial experience of navigating thousands of setbacks, C. Guz offers insight into humanising recruitment and the flaws within existing hiring systems. This discussion challenges conventional thinking around candidate experience, fairness, and how organisations can genuinely foster trust and belonging from first contact.
Today, we'll cover:
What it means to turn personal and systemic rejection into a catalyst for entrepreneurial action and advocacy in recruitment.
The hidden costs to employer brand and retention when candidate experiences are overlooked or mishandled.
How technology, automation, and AI are shaping the future of recruitment—both the promise and perils.
Why actionable data and structured feedback are essential for reducing bias and fostering a truly inclusive selection process.
The shortcomings of the traditional CV and why behavioural and contextual insights are far more predictive of potential.
Strategies for embedding transparency, psychological safety, and trust throughout each stage of hiring.
The value of reimagining recruitment as a true partnership—one that respects and empowers both candidates and employers.
💡 Speaker bios
Joanne Lockwood is the passionate host of Inclusion Bites, a podcast dedicated to sparking bold conversations about inclusion, belonging, and societal transformation. As a committed advocate, Joanne guides listeners on a journey to explore what it truly means to create a world where everyone not only belongs but thrives. Through candid discussions, challenging the status quo, and sharing powerful stories, Joanne inspires her audience to connect, reflect, and take meaningful action. She welcomes diverse voices to join her, reinforcing the belief that together, we can make lasting change.
💡 Speaker bios
Certainly! Here is a short British English bio for "C. Guz" in a summarised story format:
C. Guz’s journey began almost by accident, sparked by a quest for the right opportunities and mentorship as a young professional. Over the past eight years, C. Guz immersed themselves in their chosen field, but the last five years brought significant challenges, including more than 13,000 rejections. These setbacks led to a ten-month period of unemployment and intense financial insecurity. However, these hardships have shaped C. Guz’s resilience and determination, forging a unique path through persistence and adaptability.
❇️ Key topics and bullets
Certainly! Below is a comprehensive sequence of topics covered in the episode "Turning Rejections into Opportunities" from The Inclusion Bites Podcast, along with sub-topics under each primary topic:
1. Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
Host Joanne Lockwood welcomes listeners and introduces the show’s purpose.
Introduction of the episode’s guest, C. Guz, including her background as an entrepreneur and job seeker.
C. Guz’s superpower: transforming setbacks into empowerment through inclusive recruitment.
2. Personal Background and Context
C. Guz’s roots in Istanbul, Turkey, and reflections on belonging.
Motivation for seeking opportunities beyond native environment.
3. Experiences with Rejection and the Job Market
Volume and impact of personal rejections (13,000+ rejections, 10 months of unemployment).
Emotional consequences: insecurity, feelings of being unqualified, and the impact on self-worth.
Broader context: market chaos, economic shifts, and widespread shared experiences.
4. Spark for Change and Entrepreneurial Drive
Desire to address systemic inefficiencies and pain points in recruitment.
Realisation of responsibility to act and create solutions.
The candidate experience as a driving force for change.
5. Problems with the Traditional Recruitment Process
Dissatisfaction with CVs and the standardisation problem.
The impersonal and dehumanising nature of typical candidate experiences.
Difficulty in assessing applicants from CVs alone—lack of contextual and actionable data.
6. Humanising Recruitment and Enhancing Inclusivity
The importance of focusing on candidate experience to build trust and employer brand.
The concept of recruitment designed to reject rather than select.
Key issues: ghosting, lack of feedback, and psychological safety.
Employer brand impact—candidates as advocates or detractors.
Transparency and expectation-setting in recruitment stages.
7. The Role of Trust and Psychological Safety
Strategies for rebuilding trust after negative candidate experiences.
The necessity for clear, honest communication from employers.
Specific transparency practices: sharing interview stages, criteria, and feedback.
Evaluating candidates’ unique potentials rather than their resumes alone.
8. Recruitment at Scale and Challenges for Recruiters
The scale of applications large organisations receive and coping strategies.
Filtering mechanisms: keywords, Boolean search, and their limitations.
Risks and biases introduced in high-volume recruitment.
9. Modern, Candidate-Centric Approaches
The value of authentic workplace samples and scenario-based questions.
Moving beyond CVs: anonymisation, structured workplace assessments.
Reflective application processes that benefit both candidate growth and employer understanding.
10. Bias and Structural Shortcomings
Biases in recruitment decisions—risk aversion and the drive for self-protection.
The importance of focusing on diversity and inclusion holistically, beyond metrics or optics.
Practical adjustments for neurodiverse candidates and upholding fairness.
11. The Tension between Recruitment Speed, Cost, and Experience
The three-legged stool: cost per hire, hiring velocity, and candidate experience.
Trade-offs and the interconnectedness of these factors.
Candidate experience as a lever for retention and brand equity.
12. The Evolving Role of Technology and AI
Concerns about automation: AI-driven CV screening versus human judgement.
The rise of “AI versus AI” in job applications (automation and customisation).
The limits of AI in making holistic, human-centred hiring decisions.
The importance of actionable data and the risks of candidate dishonesty or misalignment.
13. Talent Pools, Academies, and Broader Talent Strategies
The limitations and underutilisation of traditional talent pools.
The benefits and challenges of talent academies within progressive organisations.
Rethinking early-career pathways and enabling mid-career transitions.
The necessity of assessing behavioural and growth potential alongside skills.
14. Structural Change: From Transactional to Partnership-based Recruitment
Reimagining recruitment as a partnership rather than a transaction.
The mutual selection process: candidates also “hire” the employer.
The role of communication, feedback, and mutual alignment for long-term success.
15. Introducing Octopus: A Humanising Recruitment Tool
The inspiration behind Octopus and C. Guz’s role as CEO and founder.
Octopus’s approach: smart, role-specific pre-interviews that generate actionable data.
Providing structured feedback to every candidate, supporting both employer decision-making and candidate development.
The vision: building a bridge between candidates and employers for more inclusive, human-centric recruitment.
16. Closing Remarks
Ways for listeners to connect with C. Guz and explore Octopus.
Host’s encouragement for community engagement and further conversation.
This sequence captures the full arc of the podcast episode, from personal storytelling and critical analysis of recruitment systems through to actionable insights and innovative solutions for fostering inclusive hiring practices.
The Hook
Ever felt like another rejection is just one more closed door? What if—wait—rejection is actually YOUR hidden superpower? Behind every “No” sits the spark of something big. Ready to flip every let-down into an opportunity you didn’t see coming?
Pummelled by job search “thanks but no thanks”? Same. But here’s the kicker: the very system that bruises us? It’s ripe for disruption. Want a seat at the table… even when the system seems stacked against you?
No feedback. Ghosted again. Wondering why recruitment still feels so inhuman? Let’s break the trance—discover what it really takes to be seen (not just sifted) in today’s job market. Your worth = MORE than a CV.
Exhausted by the merry-go-round of applications—never quite knowing what went wrong? There’s a way to inject humanity—and hope—back into the hiring machine. Curious how to turn your next setback into rocket fuel for your ambitions?
Tired of the transactional job hunt, where you’re just another number? Imagine reshaping the rules, so every application builds trust, not just stress. What if rejection wasn’t the end…but where real connection begins?
🎬 Reel script
Are you tired of endless job rejections and feeling invisible in the recruitment process? On this episode of Inclusion Bites, we explored how setbacks can become superpowers. I spoke with C. Guz, a trailblazing entrepreneur, about transforming personal rejection into a mission to humanise hiring and create opportunities for all. We discussed the pitfalls of traditional CVs, the importance of trust and candidate experience, and how new tech like Octopus is revolutionising inclusive recruitment. Ready to turn rejections into your greatest opportunities? Listen to the full episode now and spark real change!
🗞️ Newsletter
Subject: Transforming Rejection into Opportunity – Inclusion Bites Podcast Episode 170
Dear Inclusion Bites Community,
This week on Inclusion Bites, we’re thrilled to bring you an insightful conversation that reimagines failure as a platform for growth. Episode 170, "Turning Rejections into Opportunities", sees our host Joanne Lockwood in dialogue with C. Guz, a pioneering female entrepreneur who’s on a mission to humanise recruitment and foster true inclusivity in the hiring process.
Highlights from This Episode:
🌏 Redefining Belonging:
C. Guz shares candid reflections on her journey from Istanbul to global entrepreneurship, revealing how her own feelings of not belonging fuelled her quest to open doors for others.
🚪 From 13,000 Rejections to Empowerment:
Imagine facing over 13,000 job rejections—C. used this staggering adversity to ignite a bold venture, challenging the dehumanisation of candidates in today’s recruitment landscape.
🤝 Humanising Recruitment:
Have you ever wondered why job applications rarely showcase your true potential? C. and Joanne critically examine the broken CV-centric approach and advocate for processes that reveal the personality, values, and contextual strengths of every candidate.
🔍 Trust at the Core:
Trust is essential, yet woefully absent from most recruitment experiences. Listen as both guest and host explore tangible ways organisations can rebuild trust, craft candidate-centric journeys, and protect their employer brand.
🧠 Psychological Safety and Bias:
The episode delves into the psychological barriers candidates face—feeling unsafe, judged, or compelled to act at odds with their authentic selves. How do we balance structured recruitment with genuine human connection while reducing bias risk?
🦑 Innovation with Octopus:
Get a first look at Octopus, the smart recruitment platform co-founded by C., designed to bring actionable data and real-life feedback to both recruiters and candidates. Could this be the tentacle that bridges the gap between candidates and inclusive employers?
Call to Action
Are you ready to challenge conventions and elevate your hiring experience? Share your thoughts, personal stories, or connect directly to join as a guest! Email Joanne at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk.
Listen & Subscribe
Don’t miss this episode or any bite of bold, pragmatic inclusion! Catch up on the latest episodes here.
Let’s disrupt recruitment practices and nurture belonging—one conversation at a time.
With inclusion,
Joanne Lockwood
Host, Inclusion Bites Podcast
SEE Change Happen
#InclusionBites #PositivePeopleExperiences #Belonging #Recruitment #InclusionIgnited
🧵 Tweet thread
🚀 Turning Rejections Into Opportunities: Humanising Recruitment! 🚀
1/ 🌍 Just listened to @JoLockwood's Inclusion Bites podcast w/ C. Guz—a female entrepreneur who's transforming recruitment after facing 13K+ rejections! 💥 How do we make hiring more humane & inclusive? Read on!👇
#InclusionBites #RecruitmentReform
2/ 😵💫 C shared how relentless rejection crushed her confidence: “It felt as if I am totally useless.” But her insight? MILLIONS feel the same. So if not her, then whom? That’s the fire behind her mission! 🔥
#Inclusion #Resilience
3/ 📝 She ripped apart the classic CV: “You’re reducing me to data points that don’t translate to real business outcomes.” How can one page possibly show the full VALUE a person brings?
#CVsAreDead #HumaniseHiring
4/ 🚪 When recruiting for her own startup, C received 2,000+ CVs. “How do I know who to interview? Resumés tell NOTHING about the person.” The process isn’t just broken for candidates—it’s a nightmare for employers too!
#InclusiveHiring #HRNightmares
5/ 🤖 Automation may filter, but it also amplifies bias and loses nuance. “Our tools are built to REJECT, not SELECT,” C says. Sifting 500+ applicants per role? No wonder trust is eroding.
#AI #RecruitmentTech
6/ 💔 Ghosting, lack of feedback, opaque processes… Candidates are also customers—poor experience damages employer brand & loyalty. “Candidate experience predicts retention and growth,” C warns.
#EmployerBranding #CX
7/ 🔍 Trust is non-negotiable. Share clear stages, show your culture, give actionable data, and—above all—be human. “People hire people. That’s been forgotten,” C reminds us.
#PsychologicalSafety #Trust
8/ 🧠 “We assess interview performance, not job performance.” Should hiring hinge on charisma, or on real-life problem-solving? C argues for work-sample assessments and reflective questions, not just historic achievements.
#FutureOfWork #WorkSample
9/ 🏳️🌈 Inclusion means ALL: “If I’m neurodiverse, interviews may not show my strengths. Set candidates for success with clear, fair processes.”
#Diversity #Belonging
10/ 🐙 Enter Octopus – C’s solution: smart, flexible screening, actionable feedback, real time data. Less time wasted; more transparency. “Let us be your extra tentacle!” Brilliant, right?
#Octopus #RecruitmentInnovation
11/ 💥 The challenge: Move beyond transactional hiring. Treat recruitment as the PARTNERSHIP it should be. Both sides have power, both have a choice.
#PartnershipHiring #PeopleFirst
12/ 🎧 Catch the full episode for powerful insight: seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen. Thanks to @JoLockwood & C. Guz for championing change.
#ListenNow #InclusionBites
Let’s RE-IMAGINE recruitment—because every rejection can be an opportunity! 💫
What’s your biggest frustration with hiring today? Drop your thoughts below! 👇
Guest's content for their marketing
Turning Rejections into Opportunities: My Journey on the Inclusion Bites Podcast
I recently had the privilege of joining Joanne Lockwood as a guest on the renowned Inclusion Bites Podcast—an experience that allowed me to share, reflect, and spar ideas that sit at the heart of today’s inclusive recruitment debate. As someone who has weathered the storm of 13,000+ job rejections before channelling my setbacks into entrepreneurial action, this conversation afforded a platform to discuss both the pain points and the solutions for all those navigating the evolving world of recruitment.
Inclusion Bites, expertly hosted by Joanne Lockwood, is not a surface-level exercise in diversity platitudes. Rather, it is a catalyst for transformation—an incubator for ideas that challenge established norms within HR, talent acquisition, and organisational culture. Together, we explored what truly matters for job seekers, recruiters, and organisations seeking to balance efficiency with humanity.
Sharing My Story: From Rejection to Empowerment
During the episode, I delved into my personal trajectory—from feeling a sense of not belonging in Istanbul to facing relentless rejections in the global job market. Those countless setbacks fueled not only my resilience, but they also revealed the collective struggle shared by millions. Why do recruitment processes so often reduce individuals to mere data points? How can the industry evolve to see and value the whole person—not just a CV or a ticked box?
It was therapeutic and empowering to recount how these difficult experiences inspired the founding of Octopus, a platform designed to humanise recruitment and foster candidate-centric employer branding. Discussing my entrepreneurial motivations reinforced my belief that adversity, when harnessed, can become a formidable force for change.
A Candid Dialogue on the Candidate Experience
The podcast enabled us to interrogate the failings of contemporary recruitment—ghost posting, algorithmic sifting, inadequate feedback, and risk-averse hiring. Together, Joanne and I challenged why candidate experience is so frequently sacrificed for speed or cost. I expanded upon how negative experiences shape individuals’ trust, and how poor candidate journeys often translate into damage to the employer brand itself.
We discussed actionable, data-driven strategies for fostering meaningful human engagement in hiring. I particularly enjoyed diving into the ways standardisation, actionable feedback, and transparent communication can restore trust between candidates and employers. These real solutions have already informed Octopus’ smart pre-interview processes, which put people—not processes—at the centre.
Reflecting on Inclusion, Trust, and the Future of Work
One of the most powerful moments of our conversation was examining the interplay between psychological safety and hiring. How do we re-establish trust in a system that increasingly feels automated and transactional? How can technology and humanity co-exist, rather than oppose one another, in recruitment?
I was able to advocate for treating recruitment as a true partnership—where job seekers and employers meet as equals, and where inclusive practices are not simply a ‘nice to have’ but a strategic necessity for retention and growth. These themes resonated deeply, aligning perfectly with the podcast’s mission to ignite change through honest dialogue.
Connect and Continue the Conversation
Being a guest on the Inclusion Bites Podcast wasn’t just an interview—it was a call to arms for everyone invested in a more equitable, human, and dynamic job market. I left the session feeling re-energised and hopeful about the change we can create together.
If my story resonates, or if you’d like to learn more about Octopus and our mission to be your ‘extra tentacle’ in hiring, I’d love to connect. Let’s keep challenging, inspiring, and building a bridge to opportunity—for all.
---
Listen to the full conversation on the Inclusion Bites Podcast via seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen.
Connect with me on LinkedIn: C. Guz
Discover more about Octopus: joinocto.co
Pain Points and Challenges
Certainly. Drawing from the transcript of the Inclusion Bites Podcast episode “Turning Rejections into Opportunities” with Joanne Lockwood and guest C. Guz, here’s a list of specific pain points and challenges discussed—followed by targeted content focusing on addressing each one:
Key Pain Points & Challenges
Dehumanisation and Inhumanity in Recruitment Processes
Candidates often feel reduced to data points in a system, with the process lacking a sense of personal connection, agency, or recognition of individual value.Overwhelming Volume of Applicants and Gatekeeping
Recruiters, inundated with hundreds or thousands of CVs, rely on impersonal, automated, and exclusionary filtering systems which result in many qualified candidates being overlooked without feedback.Lack of Trust and Psychological Safety
Both candidates and recruiters experience diminishing trust in the process. Repeated rejection or ghosting leads candidates to feel demoralised and disconnected, whilst recruiters face pressure to minimise personal risk, often defaulting to risk-averse, bias-laden selection.Insufficient Candidate Experience and Lack of Feedback
The majority of candidates receive minimal or no feedback, undermining their potential for growth and souring their perception of employer brands.Mismatch Between CVs and Actual Candidate Value
CVs are treated as generic historical documents rather than reflective of potential contribution, skills transferability, and underlying motivations.Bias Amplified by Traditional and Automated Processes
Standardised formats, psychometric assessments, and ATS filtering often perpetuate bias—particularly disadvantaging neurodivergent candidates or those less versed in “CV speak”.Unethical Recruitment Practices and Market Manipulation
Practices such as “ghost posting” jobs to increase follower counts and speculative hiring erode candidate trust and damage organisational reputation.
Addressing the Challenges: Actionable Insights
Rehumanise Recruitment
Shift from process-centric to person-centric approaches.
Incorporate “real faces” and personal stories on careers pages.
Frame recruitment as a partnership—candidates are also “hiring” organisations.
Start with authentic transparency about culture, progression, and expectations.
Tackle Applicant Volume with Smart Pre-Interviews and Contextual Data
Introduce custom, job-specific pre-interview questionnaires that allow candidates to present relevant skills, aspirations, and context (as modelled by Octopus).
Replace endless CV sifting with targeted, competency-based assessment, saving recruiter and candidate time.
Restore Trust and Psychological Safety
Communicate clear timelines, processes, and expectations up front.
Provide pre-interview questions and agenda in advance, supporting equitable preparation for all candidates.
Ensure communication, even at rejection, is dignified and constructive.
Feedback as a Brand Differentiator
Automate tailored feedback at every stage using structured scoring aligned to requirements—not vague or generic replies.
Recognise that a candidate’s perception of “being seen” directly affects employer reputation and future willingness to engage.
Move Beyond the Conventional CV
Encourage work sample tasks and behavioural questions revealing how candidates would approach real scenarios.
Place less emphasis on CV formatting or “ATS friendless” and more on actionable value and alignment to mission.
Address Bias and Enable Inclusion
Standardise assessment criteria, blind review to non-essential demographic data, and incorporate diverse assessors on panels.
Adapt processes for neurodiversity—share questions in advance, allow alternative response formats, and value different communication styles.
Demand Ethical Recruitment Practice
Publicly reject “ghost posting” and speculative role advertising.
Ensure all advertised roles are live and applications are treated ethically.
Conclusion: Shaping a Human-Centred Future in Recruitment
Addressing these pain points is not merely a matter of process optimisation—it is about restoring the dignity, trust, and mutual opportunity in recruitment. Organisations which act on these principles don’t just fill roles—they build reputation, deepen belonging, and unlock new pools of talent who are empowered, not demotivated, by their hiring journey.
Whether you’re responsible for people, culture, or candidate experience, these actions represent tangible steps toward a truly inclusive and effective recruitment process.
—
To listen to more transformative conversations, visit the Inclusion Bites Podcast. To share your story or challenge, contact Joanne Lockwood at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk.
Questions Asked that were insightful
Absolutely, the episode "Turning Rejections into Opportunities" is brimming with rich insights that lend themselves well to a compelling FAQ series for the Inclusion Bites audience. Below is a curated set of FAQs inspired by the specific, thought-provoking questions asked during Joanne Lockwood’s interview with C. Guz, each paired with concise, informative responses based on the discussion:
FAQ Series: Turning Rejections into Opportunities
Q1: How can candidates turn repeated job rejections into opportunities for growth and empowerment?
A1: C. Guz shared that after experiencing over 13,000 rejections and a 10-month period of unemployment, she reframed her setbacks by recognising that millions face similar obstacles. By seeing herself as part of a larger system in need of change, she channelled her frustration into founding a business aimed at humanising recruitment. Her key advice: treat rejection as fuel to identify systemic issues and become a changemaker, rather than internalise it as personal failure.
Q2: What are the pitfalls of traditional CVs and resumes in reflecting a candidate’s true value?
A2: The discussion highlighted that CVs often reduce candidates to impersonal data points and lack contextual or behavioural information. Guz described how, even as a recruiter, she found that resumes told her little about who a person truly is or the value they could bring to an organisation. This underscores the need to explore alternative ways—like situational questions—to truly understand candidates.
Q3: Why is candidate experience so vital, and how does it influence employer brand and retention?
A3: Guz pointed out research showing that candidate experience is a core predictor of retention and growth. Poor experiences can seriously damage employer brand—candidates increasingly share feedback publicly and may deter future applicants. She urged organisations to build trust from the outset through transparency, clear communication, and respect.
Q4: What practical steps can recruiters take to instil trust and psychological safety in the hiring process?
A4: According to Guz, trust begins with transparent job descriptions, clear explanation of interview stages, and realistic portrayals of organisational culture. Preparing candidates adequately for interviews, providing feedback (even to unsuccessful applicants), and humanising the communication all foster psychological safety and rebuild trust often eroded by transactional or automated processes.
Q5: How can the recruitment process become more inclusive for neurodiverse and non-traditional candidates?
A5: Guz emphasised the importance of flexibility—such as sending interview questions in advance and providing alternative assessment methods—to accommodate neurodiversity. She warned against overly rigid, standardised approaches that may disadvantage those who do not perform well in traditional interviews, advocating instead for systems that recognise and celebrate individual differences.
Q6: Is automating the recruitment process with AI and psychometric assessments the answer to reducing bias?
A6: The conversation explored the tension between efficiency and authenticity. While automation can help with volume, both Guz and Lockwood cautioned against over-reliance on AI or psychometric tools, which may inadvertently introduce new forms of bias or strip out necessary human judgement. Instead, any tech should enhance, not replace, the human element.
Q7: What alternative methods can organisations use to assess candidates more fairly and meaningfully?
A7: Both speakers advocated the use of workplace simulations, situational judgment questions, and reflective prompts over the traditional CV. This approach not only gives candidates a fairer chance to demonstrate their strengths but helps employers discern capabilities that matter in real workplace scenarios.
Q8: How should jobseekers proactively connect with potential employers or hiring managers?
A8: Guz advised candidates to reach out directly to hiring managers (when appropriate), not just recruiters, and to personalise their messages by explaining what excites them about the role and the value they can offer. However, she cautioned against being pushy and stressed the importance of sharing actionable, relevant information.
Q9: With the increasing use of AI, are we at risk of ‘AI bots talking to AI bots’ in recruitment?
A9: The episode raised concerns about hyper-automation, where AI-generated applications are processed by AI-driven ATS, potentially leading to impersonal ‘catfishing’ scenarios. Both guests agreed this risks losing the genuine human connection the recruitment process requires and advocated for restoring authenticity on both sides.
Q10: What is the role of feedback in the modern hiring journey?
A10: Guz described how her company Octopus provides automatic, actionable feedback to every candidate completing a pre-interview. Unlike traditional processes where 90% of candidates are “ghosted,” this approach nurtures the talent pool, fosters loyalty, and encourages continuous growth for both organisations and applicants.
These FAQs could be shared individually in blog posts, discussion threads, or as part of a resource guide on the Inclusion Bites Podcast website, helping both jobseekers and employers reflect on evolving recruitment best practice.
Blog article based on the episode
Turning Rejections into Opportunities: How Humanising Recruitment Can Reshape the World of Work
Rejection. There’s scarcely a word in the English language that strikes as much dread into the heart of a jobseeker. It conjures memories of polite but icy emails, generic “thank you for your interest” notifications, and the suffocating silence of being ‘ghosted’. For many, it’s anti-climactic, demoralising, and ultimately, alienating—enough to make anyone question whether they truly belong. But what if this very rejection, in all its brutality, could ignite a movement for change? What if we could not only flip the narrative but also revolutionise recruitment itself?
Recently on Inclusion Bites, we delved deep into this topic in our episode, “Turning Rejections into Opportunities”, with the indefatigable C. Guz—a female entrepreneur and jobseeker whose personal journey from relentless rejection to transformational changemaker is both harrowing and electrifying. Drawing inspiration from her insights, let’s dissect what’s going wrong in recruitment, highlight pathways to a more humane system, and issue a rallying call to all employers and candidates.
The Problem: The Dehumanising Machinery of Modern Recruitment
C. Guz’s experience is not an anomaly; it is the lived reality for millions. Having faced over 13,000 rejections, frequently without explanation or acknowledgement, she describes a period of unemployment where her self-belief was eroded and financial insecurity soared. Far from being a series of isolated events, these experiences reveal the systemic failings that plague recruitment across sectors, geographies, and job levels.
Modern recruitment, C. Guz argues, is less about selecting talent and more about rejecting as many as possible; it is, as she quotes, “built to reject candidates and not to select them.” This is not the fevered hyperbole of a disenchanted applicant, but a critical indictment of a process that, despite decades of supposed progress, continues to grind down individuals into one-dimensional data points—CVs and keyword matches—devoid of context, humanity, or potential.
Joanne Lockwood, our host, lays bare a common frustration: “You get a thousand, two thousand applicants. It’s hard to be specific and give great feedback to 2000 people... So the first sift, that first gatekeeping, is almost like an instant rejection.” The outcome? Candidates become statistics, employers risk tarnishing their brands, and trust in the system collapses.
The Agitation: Rejection Isn’t Just Personal—It’s Systemic and Brand-Defining
If this volume-driven approach weren’t enough, consider its knock-on effects. Candidates who have negative experiences in your hiring funnel are not just disappointed jobseekers; they are potentially your customers, clients, or vocal critics. Their stories are shared, their frustrations amplified: “Now candidates are talking about their interview experiences openly... candidates have now become YouTubers and they’re going to be publicly speaking about the experiences that they just had,” explains C. Guz.
More worryingly, repeated negative experiences create a sense of learned helplessness. As Joanne reflects, rejection after rejection leads to a crisis of faith: “You had zero faith or trust in the system. That almost like why should I bother submitting another application? Because you had been so bruised and damaged by the past experience.”
The damage is not just to individuals—it is to the very fabric of organisational cultures, talent pipelines, and reputations. The churn is costly: disengaged candidates, higher attrition, and the potential loss of top talent to a more caring competitor.
The Solution: Humanising Recruitment and Nurturing Trust
So, what’s the way forward? This episode surfaced an arsenal of actionable ideas—each designed to create a bridge between employers and candidates, and to restore the dignity that should be at the heart of hiring:
1. Commit to Transparent, Candidate-Centric Communication
Organisations must demystify the recruitment process. Share the stages, who candidates will meet, the kinds of questions to expect, and what 'success' looks like. As C. Guz notes, “...these are the stages that are waiting for you, these are the kind of questions that you will be asked... many interviews don’t prepare organisations and candidates for this... so candidates don’t have the data.”
2. Move Beyond Traditional CVs and Embrace Actionable Data
The CV is a historical artefact—necessary, perhaps, but insufficient. Employers should supplement it with skills-based pre-interviews, workplace samples, and scenario-based assessments that reveal how candidates think, respond, and align with organisational values. As Joanne points out, “I always think about the CV as very historical. It’s a Wikipedia. It’s not saying anything about you.”
3. Provide Real Feedback—Automatically, if Needed
Whether through technology or human touch, every applicant deserves to know why they succeeded or missed out—a point emphasised by C. Guz’s own platform, Octopus, which offers candidates immediate, actionable feedback. Not only does this build trust, it also helps candidates grow and feel valued, even when unsuccessful.
4. Rethink ‘Talent Pools’ and Embrace Active Talent Development
Talent pools should not be graveyards for rejected applicants but incubators for potential. C. Guz cautions against the passivity of such databases, recommending instead active academies that nurture and develop talent, regardless of ‘fit’ to a single open role.
5. Center Empathy and Partnership in Every Interaction
Recruitment is not a transaction—it is a partnership. Both parties are ‘choosing’ each other. Employers that see candidates as partners (rather than disposable plates on a buffet line) are more likely to foster trust, loyalty, and long-term success.
A Call to Action: Be the Change-Maker Recruitment Needs
There’s a lesson at the heart of “Turning Rejections into Opportunities”. Rejection is inevitable—but dehumanisation is not. Every interaction is an opportunity to create dignity, foster belonging, and build trust. As C. Guz’s journey demonstrates, the pain of rejection can be a spark for activism, innovation, and radical empathy.
If you are an employer, consider what small but powerful steps you can take—transparency, feedback, empathy—to ensure your recruitment process is designed to select, nurture, and empower. If you are a candidate, know that your experience matters, and that your persistence can inspire a new wave of hiring best practice.
Let’s refuse to accept the status quo. Let’s build processes where everyone not only belongs—but thrives.
Inspired by the wisdom and resilience of C. Guz, let us challenge, innovate, and humanise recruitment—one candidate, one conversation, and one organisation at a time.
Listen to the full episode, “Turning Rejections into Opportunities,” for a deeper dive and join the Inclusion Bites community to share your insights, stories, and solutions. The revolution starts with us.
Subscribe to Inclusion Bites, connect with Joanne Lockwood, and keep pushing the movement for inclusive, humane recruitment forward.
Find out more at: Inclusion Bites Podcast
Inspired by: C. Guz, Guest, “Turning Rejections into Opportunities”, Inclusion Bites Podcast
The standout line from this episode
The standout line from this episode is:
"We have built our current recruitment tools to reject candidates and not to select them."
This quote, referenced by C. Guz, truly encapsulates the central critique of the episode: the recruitment process has become more about filtering out rather than thoughtfully choosing and nurturing talent. It spotlights the urgent need for more human-centred, trust-based, and genuinely inclusive hiring practices—a recurring theme throughout the conversation.
❓ Questions
Certainly! Here are 10 discussion questions based on the episode “Turning Rejections into Opportunities” from The Inclusion Bites Podcast:
How does C. Guz’s personal experience with over 13,000 job rejections shape her perspective on the need for a more humanised and inclusive recruitment process?
What are the main limitations of traditional CVs and résumés, as identified by both Joanne and C. Guz in this episode? In what ways do they fail to capture a candidate’s potential?
The episode highlights the notion of trust between candidates and recruiters. What factors currently undermine trust in the recruitment process, and how could organisations work to rebuild it?
Discuss the impact that poor candidate experience can have on an employer’s brand and ability to attract top talent. How can organisations balance scale with personalisation?
How do evolving recruitment technologies like AI and applicant tracking systems complicate or improve the candidate selection process? Where do they fall short from an inclusion standpoint?
The concept of a ‘partnership’ between candidates and employers is emphasised. In practical terms, how might this partnership manifest throughout the various recruitment stages?
Reflect on the idea of workplace samples and skills-based questions as alternatives to CVs in recruitment. What are the potential benefits and drawbacks of such an approach?
C. Guz mentions that current recruitment tools are built to reject, not select. Why do you think this has become the norm, and what cultural or organisational mindset shifts are needed to reverse it?
The episode touches on psychometric testing and its pitfalls regarding psychological safety. How can assessments be redesigned to support inclusion and a fairer evaluation of candidates?
Looking at the future of recruitment, what changes would you recommend for making hiring processes more inclusive, supportive, and efficient for both recruiters and candidates?
These questions are designed to spark deeper reflection and conversation, whether in a listening group, HR roundtable, or personal contemplation.
FAQs from the Episode
FAQ: Turning Rejections into Opportunities – Inclusion Bites Podcast, Episode 170
1. What is the central theme of this episode?
The episode explores how rejections in the job search process can be reframed as opportunities for personal growth and systemic improvement. It particularly focuses on humanising recruitment, building trust between candidates and employers, and creating more inclusive hiring practices.
2. Who are the guest and host featured in this episode?
Joanne Lockwood (she/her), Host of Inclusion Bites, interviews C. Guz (she/her), a female entrepreneur and job seeker who is passionate about transforming setbacks into empowerment through advocating for inclusive recruitment practices.
3. Why does C. Guz believe the recruitment process feels inhumane for many candidates?
C. Guz cites her own experience with over 13,000 rejections and an extended period of unemployment, highlighting the widespread feelings of degradation, invisibility, and lack of feedback. She points out that traditional processes often reduce candidates to data points, missing their unique value, context, and potential.
4. What are the key problems with traditional CV/resume-based recruitment?
Both Joanne and C. Guz argue that CVs are overly historic and do not convey a candidate’s true personality, potential, or how they might approach future workplace challenges. The conversation critiques the subjectivity, lack of standardisation, and over-reliance on paper-based or keyword-driven sifting methods that favour superficial filtering over genuine connection and capability assessment.
5. How does candidate experience impact employer brand and long-term business outcomes?
Negative candidate experiences, especially lack of feedback and impersonal rejection, can erode trust and damage an employer’s reputation. The episode references research indicating candidate experience is a strong predictor of retention and growth. Candidates who feel valued, prepared, and respected are more likely to become loyal employees and brand advocates.
6. What practical steps can organisations take to create a more candidate-centric process?
Cultivate transparency around hiring stages, interview structure, and criteria.
Offer real testimonials and clear, mission-driven information on careers pages.
Prepare candidates by sharing interview formats and expectations in advance.
Use structured interview questions oriented towards actual workplace scenarios and potential.
Provide feedback to all candidates, not only those who succeed.
Recognise the diversity of approaches and learning needs in the candidate pool, particularly for neurodivergent individuals.
7. How does technology, particularly AI, currently influence recruitment for better or worse?
The episode warns of a scenario where AI tools battle each other, automating both applications and sifting, resulting in dehumanisation. Over-reliance on AI and psychometric testing, without context or psychological safety, leaves candidates anxious and distrusting. Both speakers advocate for solutions that use technology to increase human connection, rather than replace it.
8. What is Octopus, and how does it propose to improve recruitment?
Octopus, founded by C. Guz, is a platform designed to generate role-specific ‘smart pre-interviews’ based on actual job requirements. It aims to assess actionable, contextual data from candidates, providing mutual feedback that allows both candidate and recruiter to make informed decisions earlier, saving time, reducing bias, and nurturing trust.
9. Should employer branding and candidate experience be prioritised over speed or cost?
The discussion concludes that these levers are interdependent: strong candidate experience reduces long-term costs and time-to-hire by attracting better-matched, more engaged candidates, reducing turnover, and streamlining the selection process.
10. Why is rebuilding trust so crucial in recruitment?
After experiencing repeated rejections or poor communication, many candidates lose faith in the fairness and transparency of recruitment. Only processes centred on mutual respect, clear communication, and meaningful feedback can restore psychological safety and engage the full potential of candidates.
11. How can candidates improve their chances in a competitive, automated landscape?
Personalise approaches to hiring managers, not just recruiters, articulating fit and passion.
Reflect carefully before submitting automated or AI-generated materials; add unique value.
Engage with organisations that are transparent and provide feedback.
12. What are common unethical practices in today’s recruitment market?
‘Ghost posting’ fake jobs to boost employer page followers and speculative listing to test talent markets are highlighted as damaging and unethical. Both discourage transparency and breed mistrust amongst job seekers.
13. How do progressive organisations build inclusivity and growth?
By creating talent academies or rotational schemes, employers can offer structured opportunities for career-changers, returners, or those seeking new specialisations, effectively prioritising potential and learning agility over perfect CV matches.
14. Where can I listen to or join the Inclusion Bites Podcast conversation?
You can listen to the podcast or connect with the community at: Inclusion Bites Podcast. For guest suggestions or feedback, contact jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk.
For more information on inclusive recruitment platforms, visit Octopus at joinocto.co, or find C. Guz on LinkedIn.
#InclusionBites #InclusiveRecruitment #CandidateExperience
Tell me more about the guest and their views
The guest on this episode is C. Guz, a female entrepreneur and job seeker who has become an advocate for inclusive recruitment practices. Her journey is firmly rooted in her personal experiences with rejection during her own job search. C. Guz brings a distinctly global perspective, having grown up in Istanbul, Turkey, which she describes as a place where she struggled to find a true sense of belonging. This feeling of not fitting in locally prompted her to seek opportunities on a broader, more international scale.
C’s ethos and views on recruitment are deeply informed by her first-hand encounters with the process’s failures and exclusions. She recounts navigating a period of acute financial insecurity, during which she received over 13,000 rejections. Rather than being defeated, these setbacks fuelled her determination to change the system from within. She observed that “millions of people are going through the same thing,” viewing the lack of humanity in recruitment processes as a collective problem requiring urgent solutions.
Her mission is to humanise recruitment. She is critical of the reductionistic approach inherent in current CV and resume culture, where human beings are distilled into anonymised data points which do not reflect their contextual achievements, personality, or the true impact they could bring to an organisation. Having also recruited for her own start-up, she became aware of the flipside—how overwhelming and impersonal the sifting of thousands of CVs can be, and how this often leads to automation and filtering systems that exacerbate disconnection and candidate alienation.
C. Guz asserts that there is an urgent need for a candidate-centric approach: one that values trust, provides psychological safety, and offers genuine feedback to help candidates grow, even if they are not successful. She points out that candidate experience is directly linked to retention and growth within organisations, noting that “candidate experience is the core… predictor of retention and growth.” She also highlights the reputational risks for employers who neglect this, especially in an age when negative candidate experiences are openly shared via platforms like Glassdoor and YouTube.
C. Guz strongly challenges the notion that AI and automation can or should replace human connection in recruitment. While acknowledging the reality of volume and the need for efficiency, she firmly argues that technology must supplement rather than supplant the nuanced, empathic aspects of hiring. For example, she sees value in structured data collection (such as smart pre-interview forms) but insists that feedback and human interaction remain essential.
Her critique extends to psychometric testing and AI-driven assessments, which she feels often leave candidates feeling “set up to fail” in environments lacking transparency about what is being assessed. She ties this lack of clarity directly to anxiety and a breakdown in trust.
Moreover, as the founder and CEO of Octopus, C. Guz is building tools designed to bridge the gap between candidates and employers. The vision for Octopus is to streamline early-stage candidate assessment using role-specific pre-interviews, providing actionable feedback to all candidates—something she believes is rare in most hiring processes. Central to her outlook is the conviction that recruitment must become a true partnership, where both candidate and employer bring value and clarity to the table.
Overall, C. Guz’s perspective is one of urgent reform. She champions a holistic, human-centred approach to talent acquisition—rejecting transactionalism in favour of partnership, transparency, and genuine inclusion. For C., the end goal is a system where every candidate feels valued and empowered, regardless of outcome, and where organisations can reliably build trust and loyalty from the outset.
Ideas for Future Training and Workshops based on this Episode
Certainly! Drawing directly from the themes, challenges, and actionable insights surfaced in this episode of Inclusion Bites — “Turning Rejections Into Opportunities” — here are several robust ideas for future training and workshops:
1. Humanising Recruitment: Beyond the CV
Focus: Examine the pitfalls of conventional CV-centric hiring, and equip hiring managers with practical alternatives.
Key elements:
Analysis of the CV’s historic limitations and inherent biases.
Introduction to workplace sample tests, anonymised screening, and structured interviews.
Hands-on exercises to design and implement human-centred assessment methods.
2. Building Trust & Psychological Safety in the Recruitment Process
Focus: Strategies for embedding trust, transparency, and psychological safety at every touchpoint of the candidate journey.
Key elements:
Role-play on candidate–recruiter interactions to explore trust-building techniques.
Developing transparent employer branding, including authentic careers pages and honest communications.
How to provide actionable, empathetic feedback to candidates — even when rejected.
3. Transforming Setbacks: Empowering Job Seekers for Resilience
Focus: Help job seekers reframe rejection as an opportunity for personal and professional growth.
Key elements:
Techniques for reflective practice and resilience-building.
Coaching candidates to leverage feedback and uncover potential strengths.
Interactive mastermind sessions to share stories of overcoming adversity.
4. Inclusive Hiring by Design: Data, Diversity & Decision-making
Focus: How organisations can integrate inclusion and diversity from the foundations of their hiring processes.
Key elements:
Critical evaluation of current recruitment tools with respect to selectivity vs. rejection.
Addressing unconscious bias in sifting and interviewing.
Application of inclusive job design, competency-based questions, and reasonable adjustments for neurodiverse candidates.
5. AI & Automation in Recruitment: Ethics, Trust, and The Human Element
Focus: Navigating the opportunities and perils of digital tools, AI, and automation in recruitment — without sacrificing humanity.
Key elements:
Interactive debate on the use and ethics of AI-driven screening.
Transparency in candidate communication throughout automated processes.
Safeguarding against over-automation and maintaining human agency.
6. Candidate Experience as Employer Branding
Focus: Transforming the applicant journey into a cornerstone of organisational reputation and retention.
Key elements:
Mapping the “moments that matter” in candidate experience.
Aligning recruitment messaging with company values and lived reality.
Using candidate feedback for continuous improvement.
7. Feedback That Fuels Futures: Delivering Actionable Insights to Applicants
Focus: Training for recruiters and hiring managers on delivering constructive, actionable feedback post-interview.
Key elements:
Frameworks for timely and personalised candidate feedback.
Breakout sessions practising real-life feedback conversations.
Legal and ethical considerations in feedback provision.
8. Hiring as Partnership: Moving from Transactional to Relational Recruitment
Focus: Reframing recruitment as a two-way evaluative process.
Key elements:
Workshops on collaborative recruitment; involving the candidate in culture fit discussions.
Techniques for hiring managers to spot and nurture talent with growth potential, not just perfect CVs.
Building long-term relationships with candidates, not just filling vacancies.
9. Practical Inclusion: Adjustments for Neurodiversity and Different Thinking Styles
Focus: Enabling fairness and success for all candidates, especially neurodivergent individuals.
Key elements:
Understanding and mitigating barriers in conventional interviews.
Creating accessible assessments and offering questions in advance.
Case studies of successful inclusive hiring interventions.
Delivery options:
Modular half-day workshops, ideal for busy HR teams.
Comprehensive full-day immersion training for recruiters.
Joint sessions with job seekers and employers, to share perspective and co-create solutions.
All these suggested workshops are inspired directly by the lived experiences, challenges, and innovative solutions discussed in the episode. Each concept is designed to spark critical thinking, practical change, and meaningful progress in both recruitment practice and candidate experience.
For bespoke development of any of these themes, or to pilot a new inclusion-focused training based on this episode, please contact Joanne Lockwood via jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk.
You’ll find more inspirational content and future episode details at Inclusion Bites Podcast.
🪡 Threads by Instagram
Rejection isn’t just a closed door—it’s a spark. C. Guz turned 13,000 job rejections into fuel for change, proving setbacks can build inclusive solutions when we embrace the lessons they bring.
Recruitment should be about people, not paperwork. Imagine if hiring saw beyond the CV—valuing your story, your growth, and your potential, not just your past titles. That’s real inclusion.
Trust is the backbone of candidate experience. If applicants feel like numbers, not humans, it damages your brand and loses talent. Are you building trust at every step of your hiring process?
Ghost jobs and generic feedback erode faith in the system. Clear communication, transparent expectations, and human connection are what set leading employers apart. Candidates deserve better.
What if workplaces nurtured you as you grow, not just as you arrive? Real inclusion means giving people space to evolve, not expecting perfection from day one. Let’s build humane, dynamic cultures.
Leadership Insights - YouTube Short Video Script on Common Problems for Leaders to Address
Leadership Insights Channel
Problem: Leaders often struggle to create a fair and trusting recruitment process, leading to frustrated candidates, damaged employer brands, and missed talent opportunities.
Here's how to change that:
First, communicate transparently. Clearly outline what candidates can expect at every stage—no more vague job descriptions or hidden processes. Let applicants know who they'll meet, what questions might arise, and how they can shine.
Second, treat every candidate as a person, not a CV. Move beyond rigid data points and ask questions that uncover real strengths: “How would you handle this challenge?” rather than, “What have you done before?”
Third, provide meaningful feedback. Even a brief explanation helps candidates see their value, builds trust in your brand, and turns a rejection into a learning opportunity.
Leaders who adopt these behaviours don’t just strengthen their hiring—they nurture loyalty and inclusion, attracting the very best people now and in the future.
Transform your approach: be transparent, be human, and always acknowledge effort. That’s how leadership builds opportunity from rejection.
SEO Optimised Titles
Facing 13,000 Job Rejections to Inclusion Champion | Retaining Top Talent Starts with Candidate Experience | C @ Octopus
90 Percent of HR Leaders Say Candidate Experience Drives Retention | Humanising Recruitment in a Data-Driven World | C @ Octopus
From 2,000 CVs to Actionable Hiring Insights | Transforming Recruitment Through Feedback and Trust | C @ Octopus
Email Newsletter about this Podcast Episode
Subject: Turning Rejections into Opportunities — Unlock the Secrets from Our Latest Episode!
Hello Inclusion Bites Community,
Ready for a boost of inspiration and actionable wisdom? Our latest episode, “Turning Rejections into Opportunities,” features an engaging conversation between Joanne Lockwood and the brilliant C. Guz. Trust us—this is an episode that everyone navigating the world of work, recruitment, or inclusion will want to pop in their earbuds for.
5 Things You’ll Learn in This Episode:
How to Turn Setbacks into Strengths: Discover C. Guz’s journey through over 13,000 job rejections, and how she transformed her toughest moments into the driving force behind her entrepreneurial mission to humanise recruitment.
Why Candidate Experience Matters: Unpack the real impact of poor candidate experiences—not just for job seekers, but for employer brands too. Spoiler: Treat your applicants poorly, and your business might just feel the ripple effect.
Pro Tips to Build Trust in Hiring: Dive deep into actionable steps employers can take to foster trust and psychological safety throughout the candidate experience—from transparent careers pages to honest communication at every stage.
The True Power of Feedback: Explore why feedback is gold dust. C. Guz shares how even a simple, structured response can empower candidates and build a reputation for fairness and respect.
Where Human and Tech Collide: Navigate the evolving landscape of recruitment tech, AI-driven sifting, and why, even in the age of automation, people—not paper or algorithms—remain at the heart of hiring.
Unique Fact from the Episode:
Did you know the modern CV can be traced back to none other than Leonardo da Vinci? C. Guz shares how the very first ‘résumé’ was created by Da Vinci as a way to succinctly present his skills for an architectural project—proof that the job hunt has always required a touch of creativity!
Now, here’s your call to action:
Don’t wait—tune into this episode and join the movement to make recruitment more inclusive and empowering for all. Whether you’re an employer, recruiter, or job seeker, there’s a golden nugget for you in this conversation. Share your thoughts with us (jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk) or pass the episode on to someone who needs that extra spark.
Let’s keep building a world where everyone not only belongs, but thrives.
Ready for more bold conversations that challenge, inspire, and spark real change?
Subscribe, rate, and share the Inclusion Bites Podcast. Let’s amplify the voices that matter and light up the path to belonging—one episode at a time.
Catch you on the next bite!
— The Inclusion Bites Team
Potted Summary
Episode Intro
Joanne Lockwood welcomes C. Guz to Inclusion Bites for an uplifting exploration of how job rejections can become powerful catalysts for change. Together, they dissect the pitfalls of traditional recruitment, the pivotal role of candidate experience, and the challenge of fostering trust in hiring. Offering pragmatic insights and new perspectives, this episode champions the human side of talent acquisition and highlights innovations designed to humanise and diversify recruitment for individual and organisational benefit.
In this conversation we discuss
👉 Humanising recruitment
👉 Building trust
👉 Candidate experience
Here are a few of our favourite quotable moments
“We have built our current recruitment tools to reject candidates and not to select them.”
“If you don’t build that trust effectively right in the beginning, if you don’t value those candidates, then those candidates are not going to be applying to you.”
“It is a partnership… I, as a recruiter, am assessing a potential employee that I should be excited for.”
Summary
This episode is essential listening for anyone seeking to transform rejection into opportunity and craft more inclusive workplaces. Discover how shifting towards a candidate-centred approach can unlock organisational success. Tune in for practical guidance and inspiring stories—listen now at Inclusion Bites—and start building a recruitment strategy that empowers all.
LinkedIn Poll
Poll Context (Opening Summary):
On the latest episode of the Inclusion Bites Podcast, “Turning Rejections into Opportunities,” Joanne Lockwood and C. Guz explored how traditional recruitment practices often undermine trust, candidate experience, and true inclusivity. From the limitations of CVs to impersonal automated systems, we discussed why humanising recruitment is key to fostering belonging and empowering candidates. As organisations weigh the demands of speed, cost, and experience, your perspective is vital.
Poll Question:
Which area needs the most improvement to make recruitment truly inclusive?
Poll Options:
🔎 Job descriptions & adverts
🤖 Automated screening tools
💬 Meaningful candidate feedback
👫 Human connection in hiring
#InclusionBites #Recruitment #Belonging #HRInsights
Closing (Why Vote):
Have your say! Your vote helps spotlight the biggest barriers to inclusive recruitment—and drives real change in candidate experience.
Highlight the Importance of this topic on LinkedIn
Just listened to the latest Inclusion Bites Podcast episode, "Turning Rejections into Opportunities," with Joanne Lockwood and C. Guz—and I can't recommend it highly enough for every HR, People Leader, and EDI professional. 🎧✨
This conversation strikes at the heart of our industry’s most pressing issue: moving from cold, transactional recruitment to a genuinely human-centred, inclusive experience. 🤝
A few points that resonated deeply:
🚪 13,000+ rejections became the catalyst for innovation—proof that setbacks can be transformative.
🧑💻 The current recruitment process still treats candidates as a collection of data points, not as individuals with distinct value and potential.
🔄 Honest feedback and structured, transparent communication are vital to restoring trust between employers and candidates.
🤖 With AI shaking up job applications AND hiring decisions, our responsibility to infuse empathy, fairness, and inclusion is greater than ever.
As someone passionate about shaping workplace culture, I found the emphasis on partnership—not hierarchy—between candidate and employer particularly powerful. If we truly want to attract, retain, and develop top talent, we must build bridges, not walls.
Let’s treat every touchpoint as an opportunity to champion belonging and psychological safety. Our brands—and our people—deserve nothing less.
Strongly recommend a listen and further reflection. Let’s lead this change together. 🚀
#InclusionBites #HR #EDI #CandidateExperience #Belonging #Recruitment #TransformingWorkplaces
L&D Insights
Certainly! Here’s an executive-level summary and learning synthesis for Senior Leaders, HR, and EDI professionals, based entirely on the Inclusion Bites podcast episode “Turning Rejections into Opportunities” with Joanne Lockwood and C. Guz.
Executive Insights & L&D Synthesis – Key Takeaways from “Turning Rejections into Opportunities”
💡 “Aha” Moments
1. Rejection is Systemic, Not Personal – and It’s a Leadership Accountability
C. Guz’s story of 13,000+ rejections reframes the narrative: the “problem” isn’t the candidate, but entrenched, dehumanising recruitment systems. When candidates repeatedly feel like commodities, employer brands suffer, loyalty diminishes, and talent pipelines become risk averse.
2. The Current Recruitment Model Prioritises Rejection Over Selection
The process, as it stands, is optimised to filter out rather than to engage or nurture talent. This transactional mindset harms both short-term and long-term talent strategy—every applicant is also a potential brand customer and future advocate (or detractor).
3. Experience Predicts Retention and Success, Not Just CVs
Joanne and C. Guz highlight research showing candidate experience is a leading predictor of employee retention and growth. The emotional journey—how seen, prepared, and fairly treated applicants feel—is a strategic driver, not a soft afterthought.
4. You Can’t Audit In or Automate Out Humanity in Hiring
The over-reliance on restrictive CV sifting, AI-driven bots, and anonymised processes may appear to remove bias but often deepen a sense of mistrust. AI cannot replace authentic human engagement, nor can it foster the psychological safety required for diverse shortlist outcomes.
5. Actionable Data is Key—But It Must be Human-Centred
Guz’s concept of “actionable data” challenges leaders to think beyond the tick-box and see the potential for genuine growth, unique skills, and contextual fit. Rigid job specs and historic CVs obscure as much as they reveal.
🏆 What Should Senior Leaders, HR & EDI Pros Do Differently?
1. Stop Treating Applications as Disposable
Recognise every candidate interaction as a brand touchpoint. Every rejection without feedback is an opportunity lost to build loyalty, trust, or even just goodwill.
2. Make Candidate Experience a Core KPI
Shift mindsets: Candidate experience is not merely an HR metric—it’s a key business risk and retention indicator. Regularly review Glassdoor and other forums for insight, not just damage control.
3. Humanise Recruitment with Transparency and Communication
Provide clear timelines, authentic preparation resources, and upfront expectations. Make your “careers page” reflect reality, not buzzwords. Candidates should know who they’ll meet and what to expect at each stage.
4. Provide Actionable, Personalised Feedback—At Scale
Adopt or develop solutions (e.g., pre-interview smart forms, automated feedback models) that empower applicants, encourage reflection, and close the loop. Even a short summary as to ‘why not’ is invaluable for future engagement.
5. Challenge Bias by Rethinking Risk in the Hiring Process
Risk aversion is often code for unconscious bias—address this via structured interviews, workplace simulations, and by re-training recruiters to seek difference, not just “sameness safely delivered”.
🔥 L&D Reflection:
Cultivate psychological safety not just for hired staff, but from the initial touchpoint onwards.
Invest in tech that augments humanity, not replaces it—design for belonging, not just efficiency.
Shatter the “one-way interview” model and treat assessment as a genuine two-way partnership; coach hiring managers to be feedback givers, not just gatekeepers.
#️⃣ Hashtags for Social Sharing
#InclusiveRecruitment
#CandidateExperienceMatters
#HumaniseHiring
#LeadershipForBelonging
#FeedbackDrivesTrust
In summary: Leadership in 2024 must recast recruitment from a fearful, compliance-driven process to a courageous act of brand-building and inclusion. The innovation lies not in automation, but in rediscovering what it means to truly see and nurture talent—especially in moments of rejection.
🎧 Listen to the full episode: Inclusion Bites Podcast
For questions or to share your own aha moments, connect with Joanne Lockwood via jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk.
Shorts Video Script
Social Media Video Title:
Rejection Hurts. Here’s How To Turn It Into Opportunity. #Inclusion #CareerGrowth
Hashtags:
#InclusionMatters #HumaniseRecruitment #OpportunityFromRejection #CandidateExperience #TrustInHiring
[Text on screen: Reframing Rejection 💡]
Let’s talk about rejection in recruitment and why it might actually be the turning point your career, or your organisation, needs.
You know that feeling—never hearing back, applying over and over, facing endless ghosting? It’s not just you. Millions are navigating rejections right now. But here's the twist: those setbacks can fuel change.
[Text on screen: Humanising Hiring 🤝]
One of the biggest gaps in recruitment? Lack of humanity. CVs and application systems often reduce people to raw data points, stripping away real talents and context. So what can we do?
Switch to Candidate-Centric Processes:
If you’re hiring, remember: candidates are potential clients and advocates. Every interaction shapes your brand. Take the extra minute to show you value them—offer transparent timelines, give real feedback, and communicate expectations clearly.Ditch Outdated CV Reliance:
CVs deserve scrutiny. They tell you what someone’s done, but rarely how they think or who they are. Instead, use practical questions—ask how someone would approach real-world challenges. You’ll get richer, more actionable insights.
[Text on screen: Trust in the Process 🔒]
Trust isn’t just a buzzword—candidates need to feel safe and valued. Simple, transparent communication and fair assessment methods can rebuild trust and attract real top talent.
[Text on screen: Long-term Success 🚀]
Here’s a fact: investment in candidate experience drives employee retention and loyalty. People remember being treated with dignity.
Takeaway:
Challenge the status quo. Whether you’re applying or hiring, push for processes that champion empathy, actionable feedback, and genuine connection.
Thanks for watching! Remember, together we can make a difference. Stay connected, stay inclusive! See you next time. ✨
Glossary of Terms and Phrases
### Specialist Concepts and Terminology in "Turning Rejections into Opportunities" (Inclusion Bites Podcast)
Below is a list of words and phrases used in this episode that extend beyond everyday vernacular, particularly within the context of recruitment, inclusion, and organisational culture, along with the definitions as implied by the discussion:
- **Humanise Recruitment**
Refers to making recruitment processes more empathetic and centred on individual experiences, moving away from purely transactional or automated interactions.
- **Candidate Experience**
The sum of perceptions and feelings a job applicant forms throughout the entire hiring process, from application to (potentially) onboarding.
- **Employer Brand**
The reputation and value proposition an organisation communicates as an employer, both internally and externally, particularly as it is seen by current and prospective employees.
- **Applicant Tracking System (ATS)**
Software utilised by organisations to manage, filter, and streamline applications for job vacancies, often leading to depersonalised, high-volume sifting.
- **Boolean Search**
A search methodology using logical operators (AND, OR, NOT) to filter or identify information (commonly CVs) more precisely in databases or ATS.
- **Psychological Safety**
The extent to which individuals feel safe to take risks, express themselves, and make mistakes without fear of negative repercussions, here applied to job applicants within the recruitment process.
- **Structured Interview**
A systematic interviewing approach where each candidate is asked the same set of standardised questions, allowing for more objective comparison.
- **Workplace Samples**
Practical tasks or scenario-based questions given during recruitment to assess how a candidate would perform or approach problems relevant to the actual job.
- **Pre-interview/Smart Pre-interview**
A staged assessment before traditional interviews, involving targeted questions to better evaluate fit, often automated and designed to capture actionable data on candidates.
- **Talent Pool**
A curated group of potential candidates who have expressed interest or have been preliminarily assessed for future job opportunities, not limited to a single vacancy.
- **Recruitment Marketing**
Strategies used by employers to attract suitable job candidates, employing techniques akin to consumer marketing to enhance the employer brand and engage talent.
- **Candidate Acquisition Cost**
The overall expenditure (time, money, resources) incurred by an organisation to attract and recruit a new employee.
- **Job Description as Positioning Tool**
Using job descriptions not simply to list responsibilities, but to represent the culture, mission, and opportunities of the organisation to prospective candidates.
- **Transactional vs. Partnership Approach to Recruitment**
The contrast between seeing hiring as merely a means to fill roles versus building collaborative, mutually beneficial relationships between candidates and employers.
- **Actionable Data**
Specific, contextual information about a candidate that enables meaningful hiring decisions, going beyond surface-level or historical CV data.
- **DEI (Diversity, Equity and Inclusion) Software**
Technology tools designed to help organisations monitor, report on, and sometimes influence the diversity, equity, and inclusion metrics of their hiring and workforce practices.
- **Candidate-Centric Approach**
Placing the needs, dignity, and aspirations of candidates at the heart of recruitment practices, challenging the conventional employer-centric paradigm.
- **Ghost Posting**
Advertising job vacancies that do not genuinely exist, often to harvest candidate data or increase social media following.
- **Hiring Velocity**
The speed at which an organisation goes from identifying a vacancy to successfully filling it.
- **Unpaid Labour in Recruitment**
The controversial practice of expecting candidates to complete extensive tasks or projects during the hiring process without remuneration, often for the employer’s benefit.
- **Neurodiverse Candidate**
A candidate whose neurological development and functioning diverges from what is considered typical, potentially affecting how they experience and perform within conventional recruitment processes.
- **No-code Platforms**
Tools and systems that enable automation or app creation without the need for traditional computer programming skills, referenced in automating recruitment-related tasks.
- **LLM (Large Language Model) Hallucinations**
The phenomenon of AI models generating inaccurate or fabricated responses, highlighted as a risk in AI-generated candidate materials.
- **Reporting Metric (in Recruitment)**
A quantifiable measure used to assess and report on aspects of the recruitment process, sometimes emphasised at the expense of substantive candidate engagement or inclusion.
- **Smorgasbord (of Opportunities)**
Used metaphorically to describe a wide array or selection of role opportunities within an organisation, into which a strong candidate could be fitted.
- **L&D Power (Learning and Development)**
The internal capability of an organisation to support employee growth and advancement, crucial for active talent development.
These terms reflect the evolving landscape of inclusive, data-driven, and human-centred recruitment explored in the podcast episode.SEO Optimised YouTube Content
Focus Keyword: Inclusive Recruitment
Video Title
Turning Rejections into Opportunities: The Power of Inclusive Recruitment | #InclusionBitesPodcast
Tags
Tags: inclusive recruitment, positive people experiences, culture change, inclusive hiring, recruitment transformation, candidate experience, workplace belonging, diversity and inclusion, neurodiversity, job search, humanising hiring, employer brand, psychological safety, candidate trust, smarter hiring, workplace culture, HR processes, recruitment innovation, modern recruitment, talent acquisition, inclusive workplaces, hiring best practices, recruiter insights, people-first, SEE Change Happen,
Killer Quote
Killer Quote: “You’re reducing me to these data points that don’t actually translate to business outcomes, to actionable data, and you also don’t know the contextual information about how I was able to achieve those goals in the organisations that I’ve supported in.” – C. Guz
Hashtags
Hashtags: #InclusionBitesPodcast, #InclusiveRecruitment, #PositivePeopleExperiences, #CultureChange, #DiversityAndInclusion, #Belonging, #CandidateExperience, #WorkplaceEquality, #JobSearch, #DEI, #HumaniseRecruitment, #EmployerBrand, #RecruitmentTransformation, #PsychologicalSafety, #TrustInHiring, #InnovationInHR, #ModernRecruitment, #SEEChangeHappen, #JoanneLockwood, #PodcastUK
Why Listen:
Turning Rejections into Opportunities: The Power of Inclusive Recruitment
If you care about people, if you care about transforming the world of work, and if you want to be at the vanguard of Culture Change, you'll find profound value in this conversation with C. Guz. She’s lived through over 13,000 rejections during a particularly tough stretch in her job-seeking journey, yet somehow turned that relentless adversity into a mission: to humanise recruitment and champion inclusive hiring.
I brought C. onto the Inclusion Bites Podcast because her story epitomises what I stand for: Positive People Experiences, building workplaces where everyone can belong, and driving robust, actionable inclusion at the heart of hiring. Our dialogue is a masterclass in shifting recruitment from a soul-sapping numbers game toward a deeply human-centric experience where every candidate is seen beyond their CV—a world where people aren't just filtered out but are selected for who they are, their potential, and their unique journeys.
We break down the flaws of today’s recruitment landscape—a landscape where automation and overload mean candidates often feel like a commodity or, as C. says, “just the food at the end of the day.” Yet, beneath the chaos, organisations risk losing the very lifeblood of their Culture Change: the talent and energy that come from truly valuing candidates as holistic human beings. When jobseekers are processed by algorithms, when their stories are lost in a maze of data points and keyword matching, and when feedback is non-existent, it’s not just the candidates who suffer; it’s the employers themselves, whose brands erode and whose cultures stagnate.
In the episode, C. shares her own transformation—the epiphany that came from realising that millions were experiencing the same demoralising rejection cycle. Instead of succumbing to powerlessness, she ignited a mission to rebuild trust, push for psychological safety in hiring, and reimagine the candidate experience. When she eventually sat on the other side of the table, recruiting for her own startup, her perspective only deepened: how can we expect the right hires if our systems strip out context, soul, and the unique value candidates bring?
We discuss practical, bold solutions:
Reshaping recruitment so selection matters more than rejection.
Building in touchpoints for trust—highlighting transparency, sharing not just roles but the culture, growth opportunities, and the “why” behind a workplace.
Using real feedback and structured interviews, moving away from relying on endless CV sifting or impersonal psychometric tests that undermine psychological safety.
Treating recruitment as a partnership, not just a transaction, so both employer and candidate select each other.
Investing in Positive People Experiences even at scale—because losing sight of the human brings a cost in retention, team morale, and brand reputation.
We unpack the hard realities of recruiter risk-aversion, the pressures on recruiters to process mountains of applications, and the seductive but ultimately hollow promises of AI-driven hiring. Both C. and I agree: technology can support, but never replace, the richness of human judgment and authentic connection. Modern tools should be harnessed to facilitate structured, insightful assessment—not merely to automate away the very substance of cultural fit and belonging.
Whether you’re a jobseeker whose faith in recruitment has been battered, a recruiter juggling a thousand roles, or an executive seeking real culture change, this episode equips you with nuanced insights and practical takeaways. We talk about the power of actionable data, “workplace samples” over traditional CVs, transparent process design, and building a genuine feedback loop so growth happens at every stage.
And we don’t shy away from controversy: we call out unethical practices like “ghost posting,” indiscriminate AI bots spamming out applications, and the prevailing mindset of seeing candidates as disposable—challenging everyone in the chain to aim for more than risk-mitigation and to pursue a workplace where inclusion is not a metric but a lived, Positive People Experience for all.
If you want to catalyse real Culture Change—and be part of the wave making inclusion, trust, and belonging central in hiring—this episode is a must-listen. You’ll leave not just inspired but equipped to challenge the status quo, drive innovation in your hiring, and put people back at the heart of recruitment.
Closing Summary and Call to Action
We covered a wealth of actionable insights in this episode, so here’s your roadmap to embedding inclusive recruitment and Positive People Experiences within your organisation:
Move from Transactional to Relational Recruitment:
Stop treating candidates as mere numbers or “plates of chips in McDonald’s.” Recognise every candidate as a potential advocate, influencer, or future hire. Your employer brand—and by extension, your organisational culture—rests on the dignity you show at every step.Build Trust at Every Touchpoint:
Trust is non-negotiable, and it starts with being transparent—from the careers page to final interviews. Let candidates know what to expect, who they’ll meet, and what motivates your organisation. This is a critical driver for Culture Change.Humanise the Process:
Technology has its place, but it must amplify—not replace—the human connection. Invest in structured interviews, clear communication, and behavioural assessments that avoid the pitfalls of “right answer” psychometrics. Create psychological safety every step of the way.Invest in Candidate Experience:
Candidates are often your customers, advocates, and potential future colleagues. Give timely feedback, clear progress markers, and actionable reasons for rejections. Exit “ghosting culture” and create a standard where no one leaves your process in the dark.Transparency and Context in Job Descriptions:
Ditch jargon and buzzwords. Describe what “leadership” truly means in your environment. Share day-in-the-life stories, genuine testimonials, and career growth pathways. This attracts aligned talent and sifts out cultural mismatches early.Design for Inclusion, Not Just Diversity:
Adjust hiring processes for neurodiverse candidates and those with different needs. Offer interview questions in advance, support accessible hiring journeys, and push for unbiased evaluation—because Positive People Experiences hinge on inclusion, not just ticking diversity boxes.Actionable Feedback Loops:
Whether a candidate is successful or not, ensure automated and meaningful feedback so every interaction is a learning opportunity, and no effort feels wasted. As C. outlined, this not only nurtures talent pools but also reinforces culture and trust.Balance Velocity, Cost, and Experience Strategically:
Recognise that cutting corners on candidate experience in the pursuit of speed or cost-efficiency usually backfires, increasing turnover and damaging brand perception. Well-designed experience reduces both time-to-hire and future recruitment burdens.Partnership, Not Power Plays:
Recruitment is not one-sided. Candidates are assessing your workplace as much as you assess them. Encourage candidates to self-reflect and align with your culture and mission—enable them to choose you with intention.Use Technology Thoughtfully:
Employ tools like Octopus (as C. detailed) to streamline without dehumanising. Automate what’s repetitive but never outsource judgment, empathy, or trust-building to algorithms.Prepare for the Future of Work:
Modern companies are leaning towards talent academies, active learning, and cross-functional onboarding. Flexibility and continuous development are key—start thinking now about mobility, upskilling, and skills-first hiring.Reimagine the Role of the CV:
The curriculum vitae may be a relic. Focus on workplace samples, scenario-based questions, and real demonstrations of value. Trust structured, evidence-based assessment over outdated “gut feel.”Feedback Is Gold—For Both Sides:
Empower candidates with honest, actionable feedback so they can grow and adjust. Equally, seek feedback from candidates to continuously refine your recruitment process.Advocate for Change Internally:
Be a champion for Culture Change. Lobby for resources, challenge leaders to rethink “business as usual” approaches to hiring, and build coalitions focused on inclusion.Remember the Ripple Effect:
Every Positive People Experience not only enriches your organisation but recalibrates the market—more inclusive, more human, and more innovative.
Call to Action:
If you’re an HR leader, recruiter, hiring manager or job seeker inspired by our conversation, take immediate steps:
Map your own recruitment journey—where do trust, feedback, or inclusion currently break down?
Pilot just one change—a transparent hiring timeline, early-stage feedback, or a new workplace sample.
Share your results, lessons, and insights with your network—tag #InclusionBitesPodcast to join the movement.
Reach out if you want practical support; we’re here at SEE Change Happen to help you achieve your inclusion ambitions.
Remember: inclusion is not only the right thing to do—it’s the smart thing to do for culture, business, and society. Make every hire count towards a more inclusive, audaciously human workplace.
Outro
Thank you, the listener, for joining me, Joanne Lockwood, on this episode of Inclusion Bites. If you found inspiration, a challenge, or a spark for Culture Change, please like, subscribe, and share this episode with your network—because together we drive real progress for Positive People Experiences everywhere.
For more resources and powerful conversations, visit the SEE Change Happen website: https://seechangehappen.co.uk
Catch all episodes and insider updates from the Inclusion Bites Podcast here: https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen
Stay curious, stay kind, and stay inclusive – Joanne Lockwood
Root Cause Analyst - Why!
Certainly. Let’s dissect the discussion in “Turning Rejections into Opportunities” from The Inclusion Bites Podcast through the lens of root cause analysis.
Key Problem Identified
The prevailing issue discussed is the impersonal, exclusionary and inefficient nature of current recruitment practices, which undermine candidate trust and diminish the quality of both candidate experience and organisational outcomes.
1st Why: Why does the recruitment process feel impersonal and exclusionary?
Answer:
Recruitment processes are heavily reliant on outdated tools and practices, notably the CV and Applicant Tracking Systems (ATS), which filter candidates on narrow criteria, often neglecting contextual and behavioural aspects essential for inclusive assessment.
2nd Why: Why are recruitment tools like CVs and ATS so limited in candidate assessment?
Answer:
CVs reduce candidates to static data points and historical achievements, while ATS algorithms prioritise efficiency by sifting based on keywords or rigid formats. This system overlooks vital human qualities, such as potential, adaptability, or cultural alignment—qualities that are not easily quantifiable.
3rd Why: Why do organisations persist with these limiting systems despite their flaws?
Answer:
Organisations prioritise speed, cost reduction, and risk aversion in hiring. The volume of applications, particularly for well-known brands, overwhelms recruitment teams, incentivising automated sifting tools. The pressure to fill positions rapidly leads to sacrificing candidate experience for expedience.
4th Why: Why is there such pressure to prioritise speed, cost, and risk aversion over candidate-centred approaches?
Answer:
There is a systemic lack of investment in modernising recruitment strategies. Many businesses still conceive recruitment as a transactional, sales-like process rather than a strategic partnership. There is insufficient recognition that the candidate experience is directly linked to employer brand, retention, and long-term organisational performance.
5th Why: Why has recruitment remained transactional and under-invested in terms of inclusion and candidate experience?
Answer:
Leadership often lacks awareness or appreciation of the business case for truly inclusive recruitment. There is scant accountability or measurement tied to candidate experience; KPIs focus on time-to-hire and cost-per-hire rather than measuring long-term outcomes, such as new-hire performance or retention linked to candidate experience.
Root Cause Summary
The core issue is a systemic and cultural undervaluing of inclusive, human-centred recruitment principles within organisational leadership, fuelled by cost, speed, and risk metrics—rather than genuine engagement, talent nurturing, or strategic workforce planning.
Potential Solutions
Mandate Inclusive Recruitment KPIs at Leadership Level:
Tie bonuses and performance metrics not merely to speed and cost, but also to candidate satisfaction scores, new-hire inclusivity metrics, and post-hire retention data.Reframe Recruitment as Partnership, Not Transaction:
Reposition recruitment as a strategic, mutual selection process. Train recruitment teams to view the hiring journey as an opportunity for both candidate and employer to assess fit and nurture potential.Embrace Technology Aimed at Humanising Recruitment:
Integrate platforms (e.g., Octopus as discussed in the podcast) that facilitate actionable, contextual candidate data and provide meaningful feedback to all applicants, thus creating a more engaging and equitable experience.Leader-Led Communication on Employer Brand and Mission:
Ensure the careers page and all recruitment communications transparently depict not only the day-to-day realities but also growth pathways, culture, and what genuine leadership means in your organisation.Candidate Empowerment and Feedback at Every Stage:
Routinely share feedback and empower applicants with reflective opportunities, supporting their growth whether or not they’re selected. Anonymise, standardise and diversify assessment methods—such as real-life case studies or job sample questions—to help level the playing field.
In Closing
Without decisive leadership support and a move towards partnership-based, value-driven recruitment practice, the entrenched issues of exclusion, poor candidate experience, and wasted talent will persist. Reimagining candidate experience as a strategic pillar, rather than an afterthought, is not only overdue but imperative for sustainable organisational success.
Canva Slider Checklist
Episode Carousel
Slide 1:
✨ Ever felt like constant job rejections are chiselling away at your confidence? What if every “No” could actually lead to a breakthrough?
Slide 2:
🔄 Meet C Guz, a trailblazing entrepreneur from Istanbul who turned over 13,000 rejections into a mission to humanise recruitment.
Slide 3:
🤝 Discover why trust and psychological safety are critical—not just for candidates, but for companies striving to create real inclusion and belonging.
Slide 4:
💡 Curious about building a more candidate-centred recruitment process—one that values real people over faceless CVs, and feedback over ghosting?
Slide 5:
🎧 Uncover practical insights on transforming setbacks into empowerment! Listen to “Turning Rejections into Opportunities” with Joanne Lockwood and C Guz—now on Inclusion Bites Podcast. Link in bio!
#InclusionBites #InclusionMatters #RecruitmentRevolution #TurnRejectionAround
6 major topics
Turning Rejections into Opportunities: Major Inclusion Topics from My Conversation with C. Guz
Meta Description:
Discover how inclusive recruitment, candidate experience, and trust-building transform setbacks into empowerment. Explore Turning Rejections into Opportunities with insights on humanising hiring.
When I sat down with C. Guz for a compelling conversation on Turning Rejections into Opportunities, I was reminded just how much the world of inclusive recruitment and candidate experience is evolving — and just how much further we have to go. We delved into challenges, questioned the very foundations of hiring, and explored concrete steps to foster trust and inclusive cultures. Here, I recount six major themes from our conversation, each offering a lens into more human-centred, inclusive recruitment practices.
Humanising Recruitment: Beyond Data Points and Rejection Letters
From the outset, C. Guz reminded me just how dehumanised recruitment can feel. Imagine sifting through 13,000 rejections — a reality for C. Guz herself. She spoke candidly about the sense of being reduced to meaningless data points on a CV, stripped of value or potential. I found myself nodding in agreement; resumes are all too often a sterile roll call of achievements, missing out on the human behind the application.
What if, instead of culling applicants with arbitrary filters, we focused on the individual stories beneath the surface? As Guz suggested, we need actionable data that brings out not just “what you did” but “how you think” and “who you are.” There’s a curiosity in how far we might go: Could every rejection inspire an improved process, or even spark entrepreneurial ventures like her own?
The Candidate Experience: The Bedrock of Employer Branding
One theme that kept resurfacing was the candidate experience and its deep impact on employer branding. I challenged Guz — and myself — to reflect: How does a poor hiring process reverberate through Glassdoor reviews, LinkedIn rants, or simple word of mouth?
Studies confirm what every recruiter secretly knows: candidates are also customers and advocates. A dehumanising experience not only weakens trust but can see the very best candidates “go elsewhere.” In my mind, a truly inclusive recruitment journey demands genuine transparency — right down to sharing interview stages, who you’ll meet, and what success looks like. Would better preparation for candidates really be that disruptive, or simply make us all braver?
Rebuilding Trust: Psychological Safety in Every Step
Trust, as we explored, is the invisible fabric of any successful hiring process. Both Guz and I reflected on how easily mistrust can grow — from ghosted applications to cryptic interview requests — and how this pain accumulates, leaving candidates bruised and disengaged.
We probed: What’s the antidote? For Guz, it started at the careers page, radiating transparency from job descriptions through to feedback after interviews. I was particularly intrigued by her structured, reflective application forms that doubled as personal development tools. Imagine: Instead of simply “applying,” candidates begin a journey of self-discovery, partnerships are built, and trust is restored. Is this the future of inclusive recruitment?
Busting Bias: Actionable Data and Real-Life Scenarios over Traditional CVs
Time and again, our discussion circled back to bias — conscious and unconscious — in traditional hiring. We dissected the limitations of the CV, that dry Wikipedia of skills, and championed scenario-based workplace samples and structured questions as more equitable alternatives.
What would happen if we moved away from “gut feeling” and toward objectively scored “how would you” challenges? I mused on the risk aversion inherent in most hiring — how knowing someone’s real approach in a crisis could revolutionise selection. Guz highlighted how these deeper insights not only diversify the talent pool but provide safety for neurodivergent applicants, too. Yet, a lingering curiosity remains: Can technology ever fully remove bias, or must human empathy always steer the process?
AI in the Hiring Process: Friend, Foe, or False Promise?
Our conversation veered into the controversial terrain of AI-powered recruitment. With bots writing applications and software scraping and scoring candidates, some fear we’re headed for a world where “an AI bot talks to an AI bot.” Guz and I considered the implications: Is the rise of automated matching a shortcut to efficiency or the death knell for individuality?
For all its promise, AI’s hallucinations and lack of contextual nuance can do more harm than good if not tightly integrated with genuine human oversight. Trust, once again, becomes paramount. Candidates worry the process is rigged, recruiters worry about being duped, and both sides risk losing sight of authenticity. Could the solution lie not in eliminating humans from hiring, but equipping them with smarter, empathetic tools?
Partnership, Not Transaction: Reshaping the Dynamic Between Candidates and Recruiters
Finally, we concluded that recruitment must move from a zero-sum, transactional game to a partnership. Guz was clear: the candidate is not merely a “plate of chips” at the hiring table. Both employer and recruit are selecting each other, bringing unique value and expectations into the collaboration.
Forward-thinking organisations are investing in talent academies, active development programmes, and more flexible, structured onboarding. But, as we mused, this takes real investment, not just in resources but in mindset. Imagine a world where we nurture people’s growth from the first contact — how many more “rejections” would turn into vibrant opportunities?
Conclusion: Transforming Inclusive Recruitment Through Bold Conversations
Reflecting on my conversation with C. Guz, it’s clear that inclusive recruitment is not simply an HR function, but a living, evolving practice. By humanising every stage, prioritising trust, and resisting the lure of shortcuts, we can reshape not just our hiring but our entire organisational cultures. I invite you to be curious, to challenge your status quo, and to view every “no” as an invitation to create something better.
For those passionate about inclusive recruitment and crafting better candidate experience, stay connected with Inclusion Bites as we continue to disrupt, question, and inspire. Remember, you can always reach me at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk or listen to more bold conversations at https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen. Together, let’s reimagine what opportunity truly looks like.
TikTok Summary
Ever felt crushed by job rejections? Ready to flip setbacks into your superpower? 💥
On this episode of Inclusion Bites with Joanne Lockwood, C. Guz shares how 13,000 rejections fuelled her mission to humanise recruitment and rebuild trust in hiring. Discover why CVs fall short, how brands damage themselves with poor candidate experience, and what it really takes to create truly inclusive opportunities.👀✨
If you’re tired of ATS “black holes”, obsessed with inclusive hiring, or just keen to see rejections in a new light, this one’s for you.
Tap into the convo and get inspired to #DriveChange — full episode here:
👉 https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen
#InclusionBites #InclusionRevolution #JobSearchTips #RejectionToOpportunity #DiversityMatters
Slogans and Image Prompts
Certainly! Here are some slogans, soundbites, and quotes from the episode “Turning Rejections into Opportunities” (The Inclusion Bites Podcast). Each comes with a detailed AI image generation prompt, ensuring they’re ready for attention-grabbing merchandise and hashtag campaigns. These encapsulate the spirit of inclusion and empowerment discussed in the episode:
1. Slogan/Soundbite:
“Turning Rejection into Empowerment”
Use as a mug slogan, t-shirt print, or sticker headline.
AI Image Prompt:
Create an uplifting illustration featuring a stylised phoenix rising from ashes, with bold text “Turning Rejection into Empowerment” curving above it. The phoenix’s wings are subtly composed of CVs and job application forms transforming into rays of light. Colour palette: bright oranges, deep purples, and gold accents to symbolise transformation and hope. The background suggests a sunrise, representing new beginnings.
2. Quote:
“Let us be your extra tentacle.”
Ideal for quirky mugs, notebooks, and t-shirts referencing the Octopus startup.
AI Image Prompt:
Render a friendly cartoon octopus, each tentacle holding a different symbol: a briefcase, a heart, a laptop, a CV, a handshake, and an interview question. The octopus is wearing a playful grin, and above its head, big bold type reads “Let us be your extra tentacle.” The setting should be an office desk underwater, blending professionalism with whimsy and intelligence.
3. Hashtag:
#BuildTheBridge
Perfect for stickers, badges, and as a recurring online hashtag.
AI Image Prompt:
Visually depict two diverse groups of people on either side of a river, building a colourful, modern bridge together out of puzzle pieces. Each person is passing a puzzle piece to another, highlighting collaboration, connection, and inclusion. The hashtag #BuildTheBridge is spelled out in the arches of the bridge.
4. Quote/Soundbite:
“Hiring People, Not Paper.”
Strong message for t-shirts, mugs, conference banners, and online graphics.
AI Image Prompt:
Illustrate two hands—one offering a CV, the other offering a glowing heart. Above them in modern, minimalist font, the phrase “Hiring People, Not Paper” stands out. The background is a soft gradient blending blues and greens, subtly incorporating human silhouettes behind the hands to represent diversity.
5. Slogan:
“Rebuilding Trust, One Interview at a Time”
For mugs, office posters, and notepads for recruiters, HR teams, and job seekers.
AI Image Prompt:
Design a circular motif with two hands shaking in the centre, surrounded by interlinked cogs and hearts to symbolise systems, trust, and humanity. Bright, warm tones evoke optimism. Around the motif, the slogan “Rebuilding Trust, One Interview at a Time” is wrapped in a clean, friendly typeface.
6. Hashtag/Soundbite:
#HumaniseRecruitment
Ideal for stickers, LinkedIn banners, social campaigns, or t-shirt sleeves.
AI Image Prompt:
Show a group of diverse candidates and recruiters sitting in a relaxed circle, engaged in genuine discussion, surrounded by floating icons representing empathy, lightbulb moments, and inclusion. The hashtag #HumaniseRecruitment appears as a central banner, in bold, inclusive typography, with subtle watercolour effects in the background.
7. Inspirational Quote:
“Candidate Experience is the Core of Inclusion.”
Suitable for mugs, conference lanyards, or desk calendars.
AI Image Prompt:
Create a powerful visual of an abstract heart at the centre of a radiant target, with concentric rings labelled “Trust”, “Belonging”, and “Inclusion”. Place “Candidate Experience is the Core of Inclusion” beneath the image in an elegant, accessible font. Use a palette of rich purples, golds, and sky blues.
8. Slogan:
“Meet Me, Not My CV.”
Great for stickers, badges at job fairs, and pin-back buttons.
AI Image Prompt:
Draw a smiling silhouette stepping out from behind a giant paper CV, leaving the monochrome into bright, vibrant colours. A speech bubble next to the silhouette says, “Meet Me, Not My CV.” The backdrop features subtle confetti to evoke celebration and individuality.
9. Quote:
“We’re Not Hiring Paper, We’re Hiring Heart.”
For t-shirts, motivational posters, and mugs.
AI Image Prompt:
Show an office desk with a pile of papers on one side and a glowing red heart with a handshake on the other. The text, in bold sans-serif, floats between the two, bridging the gap. The scene should look welcoming, modern, and inclusive.
10. Hashtag:
#InclusionBites
Essential for all merchandise—classic, recognisable, and podcast-branded.
AI Image Prompt:
Design a circular sticker with the primary logo of the Inclusion Bites podcast framed by diverse illustrated faces—different ages, backgrounds, and abilities—sharing a communal meal at a round table. The hashtag #InclusionBites flows underneath in a signature, informal font.
These encapsulate the podcast’s ethos: authenticity, empowerment, inclusion, and the human touch in recruitment. Each prompt is tailored for visual engagement, brand consistency, and maximum inclusivity.
Inclusion Bites Spotlight
In this month’s Inclusion Bits Spotlight, we turn our attention to the deeply resonant episode “Turning Rejections into Opportunities” from The Inclusion Bites Podcast, featuring the extraordinary journey of C. Guz. As an entrepreneur and jobseeker who has transformed personal hardship into a mission for change, C. brings a fresh, human-centred perspective to the evolving landscape of recruitment and inclusion.
C.'s story is one of remarkable resilience. Navigating over 13,000 job rejections, she faced the harsh realities and impersonal nature of the global hiring market. Rather than allow these setbacks to define her, C. channelled her experiences into a call to action—dedicating herself to humanising recruitment processes and advocating for inclusive practices that truly empower individuals from all walks of life. Her work boldly interrogates the systems and assumptions that too often reduce people to data points, reminding us that every candidate brings a story and potential far greater than a CV can capture.
In conversation with host Joanne Lockwood, C. delves into the obstacles inherent in today’s recruitment ecosystems—from overwhelming application volumes and faceless automated filters to the psychological toll of ghosting and perpetual rejection. Together they examine the necessity of trust, psychological safety, and actionable feedback—not merely for a more compassionate candidate journey but as pillars for robust employer brands and genuine organisational growth.
C. also shares the vision behind her current venture, Octopus, a platform designed to bring human insight back into hiring by delivering meaningful data and personalised feedback—creating bridges where candidates and recruiters alike can thrive.
This feature episode is an essential listen for anyone engaged in hiring, HR, or the inclusion conversation more broadly. It challenges us to rethink recruitment as a partnership, not merely a transaction, and asks us to consider: What could our workplaces look like if we transformed rejection into collective opportunity?
Tune in this month and be inspired to reimagine what inclusion means at the very frontiers of employment and belonging.
YouTube Description
Are we fuelling talent rejection—and missing out on our brightest stars?
Welcome to another transformative episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast with Joanne Lockwood. In Episode 170, "Turning Rejections into Opportunities," Joanne is joined by C. Guz, an entrepreneurial changemaker on a mission to humanise recruitment and overhaul how we approach inclusion in hiring.
Summary of Insight
With brutally honest personal stories, C. Guz reveals how over 13,000 job rejections spurred not defeat, but innovation—culminating in a fresh perspective on candidate experience and inclusive recruitment. Together, Joanne and C. unravel why traditional hiring processes harm employer brand, erode candidate trust, and perpetuate bias. They delve into why the infamous CV misses the mark, how AI is both a threat and a tool, and challenge recruiters to prioritise fairness, actionable feedback, and meaningful human connection.
Why should you listen?
If you’re wondering why your organisation struggles with talent retention or why your candidate pipeline isn’t as diverse or vibrant as it should be, this episode asks the difficult questions—and offers a roadmap to real change. You’ll walk away with a new lens on the impact of rejection, practical actions for nurturing trust, and a blueprint for making recruitment an inclusive partnership.
How will you think, feel or act differently?
After listening, you’ll rethink the definition of ‘qualified’ and feel inspired to see rejection as fuel for innovation. Expect to act with renewed commitment to inclusive, empathetic hiring—putting people, not processes, at the heart of recruitment.
Takeaways and Actions:
Audit your employer brand—does your recruitment genuinely welcome all, or quietly reject the unexpected?
Reimagine the candidate experience: Offer actionable feedback, transparency, and psychological safety at every step.
Leverage technology to augment—never replace—human judgement and emotional intelligence.
Treat every candidate as a potential advocate or customer, not a data point.
Connect. Reflect. Inspire action—become the employer people trust.
Ready to disrupt the status quo? Hit play and be part of the change!
#InclusionBites #InclusiveRecruitment #HRTransformation #BelongingAtWork #EmployerBrand #CandidateExperience #DiversityandInclusion #HumaniseHiring #RecruitmentInnovation #SeeChangeHappen
Listen now: https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen
Get in touch: jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk
10 Question Quiz
Inclusion Bites Podcast
Episode: Turning Rejections into Opportunities
Quiz: Host Reflections and Insights
Question 1:
According to Joanne Lockwood, what key element is essential in fostering an inclusive and candidate-centred recruitment process?
A. Reducing the number of candidates
B. Psychological safety and trust
C. Automated filtering
D. Competitive salaries
Question 2:
Joanne mentions that organisations often prioritise what at the expense of candidate experience in hiring?
A. Technological investment
B. Velocity and speed
C. Diversity quotas
D. Brand marketing
Question 3:
The host highlights the value of which approach when considering a candidate’s potential in the recruitment process?
A. Relying strictly on CV data
B. Evaluating only technical skills
C. Favouring workplace samples and situational questions
D. Choosing the lowest-cost candidate
Question 4:
Joanne observes that candidate experience can directly impact which of the following organisational outcomes?
A. Annual profit margins
B. Employer brand and talent retention
C. Office location desirability
D. Tax efficiency
Question 5:
What critique does Joanne make regarding the traditional CV, as discussed in the episode?
A. It is too costly to produce
B. It offers a narrow, historic view and does not capture a person’s full potential or personality
C. It prioritises education over experience
D. It is universally unbiased
Question 6:
In discussing risk aversion in hiring, Joanne suggests that recruiters often do what?
A. Take bold, experimental hires
B. Delegate hiring decisions to AI
C. Favour “safe” candidates due to organisational blame culture
D. Ignore feedback from candidates
Question 7:
The host refers to which recruitment reality, especially for large firms processing high volumes of applications?
A. Each candidate receives individualised, detailed feedback
B. The first stage is often an instant or automated rejection
C. Only handwritten applications are accepted
D. All applicants are interviewed in person
Question 8:
Joanne advocates for what element to be built into the candidate journey and recruitment process?
A. A focus on educational qualifications
B. Complete automation
C. Mutual partnership between candidate and employer
D. Unstructured interviews
Question 9:
What analogy does Joanne use to describe the sometimes impersonal reality of mass recruitment?
A. A conveyor belt in a factory
B. A plate of chips in McDonald's
C. A racing competition
D. An assembly line of robots
Question 10:
How does Joanne describe an ideal modern method to balance effective and inclusive hiring at scale?
A. Relying solely on references
B. Utilising a blend of technology for efficiency and human touch for meaningful connections
C. Outsourcing all hiring
D. Focusing only on personality assessments
Answer Key & Rationales
B. Psychological safety and trust
Rationale: Joanne explicitly emphasises the need for psychological safety and trust in the process, both for candidates and employers, as a foundation for an inclusive approach.B. Velocity and speed
Rationale: She highlights that organisations often sacrifice candidate experience for hiring velocity and speed, especially when filling urgent vacancies.C. Favouring workplace samples and situational questions
Rationale: Joanne champions the use of workplace samples and “how would you” questions to reveal a candidate’s real capability and mindset, moving beyond the traditional CV.B. Employer brand and talent retention
Rationale: She notes that candidate experience affects brand reputation and the retention and growth of talent within an organisation.B. It offers a narrow, historic view and does not capture a person’s full potential or personality
Rationale: Joanne critiques the CV as “historical,” comparing it to a Wikipedia page, and highlights its inability to reflect a candidate’s true abilities.C. Favour “safe” candidates due to organisational blame culture
Rationale: Joanne discusses risk aversion, explaining how recruiters often default to safer choices out of concern for organisational repercussions.B. The first stage is often an instant or automated rejection
Rationale: She observes that many organisations carry out a rapid or even automated first-stage rejection due to overwhelming applicant volumes.C. Mutual partnership between candidate and employer
Rationale: Joanne repeatedly stresses the importance of recruitment as a partnership rather than a one-sided transaction.B. A plate of chips in McDonald's
Rationale: She uses the analogy of candidates being like a plate of chips, underscoring the commodification and perceived expendability in high-volume hiring.B. Utilising a blend of technology for efficiency and human touch for meaningful connections
Rationale: Joanne concludes that balancing technology with human interaction leads to the most effective and inclusive hiring processes.
Summary Paragraph
The host, Joanne Lockwood, effectively framed the challenge of turning recruitment rejections into opportunities by advocating for psychological safety and trust as central pillars in the hiring process. She critiqued the prevailing trend where organisations often prioritise hiring speed over candidate experience, to the detriment of their employer brand and long-term retention. Joanne emphasised the limitations of traditional CVs, highlighting the greater value of workplace samples and situational questions to unearth genuine potential. She drew attention to recruiters’ risk aversion, which too often leads to reliance on “safe” hires and impersonal, automated rejections, especially in large-scale recruitment settings. Stressing the need to move beyond transactional interactions, Joanne called for recruitment to be approached as a true partnership and illustrated the depersonalisation of mass hiring with the “plate of chips in McDonald's” analogy. Ultimately, she championed a recruitment strategy that skilfully combines technological efficiency with the irreplaceable human touch, ensuring a more inclusive, effective, and trustworthy process for all parties.
Rhyme Scheme and Rhythm Podcast Poetry
Turning Rejection into Empowerment
Upon a global archway, at the crossroads wide,
Where cultures mingle, prospects do collide,
Emerges the journey—of knock-backs and strife,
Where setbacks ignite the momentum of life.
From Istanbul’s rivers to digital streams,
A world of hiring is not always as it seems.
Thirteen thousand rejections—how bitter the cost,
Yet in each “not yet”, a spirit is tossed.
For resumes whisper, but never declare
The heart of a human, the value they bear.
Numbers and paper, they speak in rote tones,
But strip out the context, reduce flesh to bones.
If trust is eroded, and faith is worn bare,
How can a candidate hope—how dare?
As silence breeds distance and biases rule,
The best and the brightest fall out of the pool.
But what if recruitment—a bridge, not a wall,
Sees humans as partners, not hurdles to fall?
What if the questions invite one’s best spark,
And processes greet with intention—not dark?
Brand is a mirror, reflecting each stage;
A Glassdoor review now turns into a cage.
Candidates speak, not just numbers or tools,
Experience impacts whether talent enrols.
Let interviews nurture, not interrogate,
Feedback be honest, not left to fate.
For trust is rebuilt when openness reigns,
Transparency cleanses, inclusion sustains.
Let’s hire for promise, for pathways to grow,
For curiosity’s urge, for the skills they could show.
Not every great hire has ticked every box,
Sometimes the wild cards break open the locks.
So challenge the systems that ghost or delay,
Meet people with respect every step of the way.
Whether AI pre-screens or recruiters decide,
It’s partnership, empathy, work side by side.
To every employer seeking talent that sticks,
Prioritise people over bureaucratic tricks.
And to every soul seeing “no” as a wall—
Remember, in valleys, it’s courage that calls.
Now, if you find wisdom in these rhymes that ignite,
Subscribe and share—pass Inclusion’s bright light.
With thanks to C. Guz for a fascinating podcast episode.
Key Learnings
Key Learning & Takeaway from the Episode:
The central takeaway from this episode of Inclusion Bites is that the current recruitment landscape is systemically flawed, often reducing candidates and employers to transactional participants and perpetuating distrust, inefficiency, and bias. Both candidate and employer suffer: candidates face impersonal rejections, lack of transparency, and dehumanised processes, whilst recruiters contend with overwhelming volumes, inadequate actionable data, and the pressure to mitigate risk. The solution lies in humanising recruitment by building genuine trust, focusing on candidate experience, implementing transparent and structured processes, and leveraging technology as a supportive tool—never a replacement for human judgment. Meaningful, inclusive recruitment can transform rejection from an endpoint into an opportunity for empowerment and positive change, both for individuals and for organisations.
Point #1: The Power of Candidate Experience
Candidate experience is not a superficial nicety—it’s a core driver of brand reputation, retention, and talent attraction. Poor candidate experiences not only deter top talent, but also damage organisational trust and loyalty, feeding directly into Glassdoor reviews, social media narratives, and wider brand perception. Studies referenced show it is one of the most significant predictors of employee retention and long-term engagement.
Point #2: Trust and Transparency Are Foundational
Both C. Guz and Joanne Lockwood repeatedly stress the necessity of trust. From clearly outlining recruitment stages and expectations to providing meaningful feedback—openness helps candidates prepare, feel valued, and rebound from setbacks. Psychological safety must extend to the hiring journey, not just the workplace proper.
Point #3: Data-Informed Yet Human-Centric Recruitment
While technology like applicant tracking systems and AI can assist with processing sheer volume and extracting data, they lack the nuances to replace human empathy or insight. Effective recruitment tools must provide actionable data that enable fair assessment without erasing the candidate’s unique story, context, or behavioural strengths.
Point #4: Partnership, Not Transaction
Perhaps the most profound shift advocated is reframing recruitment as a collaborative partnership. Employers and candidates are not adversaries in a zero-sum game; both are searching for alignment. True inclusivity means designing processes in which both parties reveal, rather than sell, their authentic strengths—and learn from every interaction, even when it ends in rejection.
For more courageous conversations on building positive people experiences, listen to Inclusion Bites at seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen or contact Joanne Lockwood at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk.
Book Outline
Book Outline: Turning Rejections into Opportunities – Humanising Recruitment for Inclusive Success
Title Suggestions
Turning Rejections into Opportunities: Reimagining Recruitment for Inclusion and Empowerment
From Setbacks to Empowerment: A Journey towards Inclusive Hiring
Humanising Recruitment: Building Trust and Inclusion from Rejection
Applicants at the Centre: Transforming Rejection into Inclusive Opportunity
Introduction
Introduce the modern job market’s competitive and impersonal nature.
Reflect on personal experiences with rejection and unemployment.
Outline the motivation to transform rejection into empowerment through inclusive recruitment.
Chapter 1: The Reality of Rejection
Summary:
Detail the emotional and practical impact of mass job rejections in today’s volatile market, drawing on the experience of over 13,000 job application rejections and their consequences.
Subheadings:
A Market Plagued by Layoffs and Change
The Cycle of Degrading Rejections
Navigating Unemployment and Financial Insecurity
Recognising Collective Struggles in the Job Search
Quotes:
“I got more than 13,000 rejections. That meant like slap on the wrist, a kick on the face.”
Reflection Element:
Prompt readers to acknowledge their own experiences of rejection and how it has shaped their career perceptions.
Visual Aid Suggestion:
Graph showing average number of applications per successful hire, with annotation.
Chapter 2: From Pain to Purpose: The Spark for Change
Summary:
Explore the emergence of a sense of responsibility and the realisation that individual action can drive industry-wide change. Discuss the moment where the idea to improve recruitment germinated.
Subheadings:
Challenging the Status Quo of Candidate Experience
Personal Responsibility and the Drive for Change
From Candidate to Entrepreneur
Real-Life Example:
Transforming frustration into action, resulting in the founding of a start-up aimed at humanising recruitment.
Chapter 3: Why Recruitment Feels Broken
Summary:
Examine systemic flaws in recruitment, such as resume-centric assessment, lack of standardisation, and candidate ghosting. Analyse why both candidates and recruiters are dissatisfied.
Subheadings:
Too Many Applicants, Too Few Human Touchpoints
The Resume Problem: Data Points vs. the Human Story
Ghosting and its Impact on Trust
The Role of Applicant Tracking Systems in Dehumanisation
Quotes:
“I remember looking at that one pager… I hated it. It was almost like, I’m going to destroy you. You’re telling nothing about me…”
Visual Aid Suggestion:
Diagram illustrating the traditional recruitment funnel and where candidates are lost or disengaged.
Chapter 4: Rethinking Candidate Experience
Summary:
Argue for a candidate-centric approach, detailing how candidate experience directly impacts brand reputation, retention, and hiring outcomes.
Subheadings:
Candidate Experience is Brand Experience
Trust and Psychological Safety in the Hiring Process
Practical Steps for Employer Transparency
The Power of Feedback in Nurturing Talent
Quote:
“Candidate experience is the core predictor of retention and growth.”
Research Note:
Incorporate industry data on candidate experience and employer branding from respected sources (e.g., CIPD, Forbes).
Reflection Element:
Invite readers to evaluate their organisations’ candidate experience.
Chapter 5: Humanising the Hiring Process
Summary:
Introduce alternative methods to CV-based recruitment: workplace samples, scenario-based questions, honest employer branding, and open communication.
Subheadings:
Moving Beyond the CV: Showcasing Real Abilities
Designing Reflective and Relevant Application Tasks
Real Human Connection: The Case for Authentic Assessment
The Dangers and Benefits of Automation
Quotes:
“You have to remember, people hire people. That’s something that we’ve forgotten in the process.”
Visual Aid Suggestion:
Table contrasting traditional CV assessment with competency-based, scenario-driven methods.
Interactive Activity:
Sample reflective questions for job seekers and recruiters to use.
Chapter 6: Diversity, Inclusion, and Trust
Summary:
Unpick the complex issues of bias, diversity, neurodiversity, and inclusion in recruitment. Offer strategies for restoring trust and supporting all applicants equitably.
Subheadings:
The Double-Edged Sword of Technology in DEI
Neurodiversity and Inclusive Interviewing
Feedback Loops and Empowerment
Overcoming Historic Mistrust
Quote:
“We have to reestablish recruitment as a partnership. I am also hiring you as an employer.”
Research Note:
Latest best practices on inclusive hiring from leading bodies (e.g., Business Disability Forum, ACAS).
Chapter 7: The Candidate-Recruiter Partnership
Summary:
Reframe the applicant-employer dynamic as a partnership, not a transaction, recognising mutual value and shared goals.
Subheadings:
Moving from Transaction to Partnership
Actionable Data: What Recruiters and Candidates Really Need
The Role of Feedback in Continuous Improvement
Rebalancing Power in Recruitment
Real-Life Example:
Detail the eight-section reflective hiring form trialled in a start-up, focusing on skill sets, growth areas, and candidate ambitions.
Chapter 8: AI, Automation, and the Human Factor
Summary:
Discuss the rise of AI in recruitment, its limitations, legal challenges, and why human judgement remains essential.
Subheadings:
AI as a Tool, Not a Replacement
Automation, Personalisation and Trickery
The Hallucination Dilemma: When AI Gets it Wrong
The Imperative for Emotional Intelligence
Quotes:
“AI cannot and should not and will not—It’s a human hiring a human being.”
Visual Aid Suggestion:
Flowchart of an ideal human-AI partnership in recruitment.
Chapter 9: Building Trustworthy and Flexible Talent Pipelines
Summary:
Examine the limitations of passive talent pools and explore the future of active talent academies, tailored onboarding, and multi-path hiring.
Subheadings:
Why Passive Talent Pools Fail
Investing in Candidate Development
The Case for Academies and Career Rotation
Structuring Opportunities for All
Quote:
“You cannot expect for a candidate to fill all the boxes before you hire them because you train them and they evolve into the job.”
Research Note:
Examples from progressive employers with structured internal academies and job rotation schemes.
Chapter 10: Action Plan for Inclusive, Empowering Recruitment
Summary:
Translate insights into actionable steps for both employers and job seekers to create more humane, inclusive, and mutually beneficial recruitment journeys.
Subheadings:
Ten Practical Steps to Humanise Recruitment
Checklists for Organisations and Applicants
Reflection and Self-Assessment Tools
Case Studies of Success
Exercise:
Self-audit questionnaire for employers and applicants.
Conclusion: Rejection as the Start, Not the End
Summarise the main message: rejection is not the closing of a door, but the opening of multiple new pathways—for both individuals and organisations willing to embrace authentic, inclusive change.
Call to Action:
Encourage readers to re-examine their approach to recruitment, join the movement towards inclusion, and share their journeys for continuous improvement.
Feedback and Refinement
Include a section for suggested further reading and a process for review, inviting contributions from readers and experts to keep the conversation evolving.
Chapter Summaries
Chapter 1: Examines the personal and collective pain of rejection in modern recruitment.
Chapter 2: Chronicles the moment of resolve, turning adversity into an impetus for industry reform.
Chapter 3: Critiques systemic failures in hiring processes, especially the reliance on depersonalised CVs.
Chapter 4: Demonstrates that centring candidate experience is foundational for organisational health and brand strength.
Chapter 5: Proposes practical techniques and alternative assessments to humanise recruitment interactions.
Chapter 6: Explores how to make hiring more inclusive for diverse and neurodiverse candidates, focusing on actionable change.
Chapter 7: Challenges transactional thinking and outlines a partnership paradigm for candidates and employers alike.
Chapter 8: Navigates the opportunities and limitations of AI in recruitment, advocating for the primacy of human judgement.
Chapter 9: Guides readers through designing and maintaining trust-based, flexible talent ecosystems.
Chapter 10: Provides step-by-step actions, resources, and reflection tools for lasting impact.
This book outline transforms the guest’s podcast insights into a stepwise guide for candidates, recruiters, and organisations ready to build a future where rejection is not a stumbling block, but a powerful springboard for inclusion and shared success.
Maxims to live by…
Maxims for Turning Rejections into Opportunities and Humanising Recruitment
View Rejection as a Catalyst, Not a Conclusion
Every setback presents the seeds for new growth. Rather than seeing rejection as a reflection of your worth, treat it as an invitation to adapt, learn and find your unique path.Humanity Must Prevail Over Process
Remember, recruitment and job-seeking involve people first and foremost. Systems, CVs and automated tools should never erase the human element at the heart of the process.Build Trust from the First Interaction
Whether recruiting or applying, foster trust through transparency, empathy and clear communication right from the outset.Value Psychological Safety Throughout the Journey
Create environments where individuals feel able to show their authentic selves without fear of bias, ridicule or ghosting. Psychological safety is the bedrock of inclusion.See Beyond Paper and Data Points
A CV or résumé often fails to capture motivation, character or contextual strengths. Seek depth—look for the person behind the paperwork, and reveal your own story beyond bullet points.Feedback Is Not a Luxury, But an Obligation
Constructive feedback transforms experiences. Always inform and empower others with actionable responses, even after a ‘no’.Champion Inclusion Over Mere Diversity Tallies
Meaningful inclusion requires more than meeting quotas. Strive to nurture real belonging and value diversity in thought, background and neurotype.Embrace Responsible Use of Technology
Leverage automation and AI to streamline, not dehumanise. Let technology support decision-making, not replace vital human judgement.Recruitment Is a Partnership, Not a Transaction
Both employer and candidate have agency and responsibility. Approach hiring as a process of mutual discovery and benefit.Authenticity Over Buzzwords in Culture and Brand
Honesty about workplace expectations, culture and growth opportunities builds sustained engagement and trust—from careers pages to job descriptions.Make the Hiring Process Transparent and Predictable
Remove ambiguity wherever possible. Share interview stages, assessable skills, and ‘what good looks like’ to set everyone up for success.Understand and Accommodate Individual Differences
Adjust your approaches for neurodiverse candidates, career-changers and those with varied lived experiences. One-size-fits-all strictly fits no-one.Prioritise Quality of Experience Over Speed or Cost
An outstanding candidate experience reduces long-term costs and improves retention. The cheapest or quickest path often undermines inclusivity and employer reputation.Empathy Drives Advocacy and Long-Term Loyalty
Treat every individual with dignity. Past candidates become future allies, customers or brand ambassadors.Nurture Learning and Growth, Not Just ‘Fit’
Hire for potential as well as achievement. Consider how individuals may evolve with training, mentoring and an inclusive culture.Actively Challenge the Status Quo
Perpetuate change by questioning ingrained processes. Seek ways to disrupt routines that perpetuate exclusion or inefficiency.Demand and Offer Consent for Data Usage
Collect and utilise candidate data ethically, ensuring privacy and respect for each person’s information.Remember People Hire People
Ultimately, employment decisions are (and should be) made by people, informed by technology but grounded in empathy and judgement.Make Room for Reflection and Self-Discovery
Help candidates and employees clarify what they seek, not simply what they have done. Encourage reflective journeys for all involved.Inclusion Is an Ongoing Commitment
Daily actions, not just slogans, create cultures where everyone belongs, thrives, and is empowered to turn rejection into opportunity.
Live by these maxims to reimagine recruitment and work culture—not only to unlock doors for yourself, but to hold them wide open for others.
Extended YouTube Description
Timestamps for Easy Navigation
00:00 – Introduction & Welcome
01:14 – Meet C. Guz: Rejection, Resilience & Inclusive Recruitment
02:54 – Personal Journey: From Unemployment to Entrepreneurship
07:07 – The Flaws in Traditional Recruitment Processes
11:34 – Building Trust & Psychological Safety for Candidates
21:04 – Assessments, DEI, and Bias in Hiring
28:03 – Balancing Candidate Experience, Cost, and Speed
32:42 – The Realities of Employer Branding & Candidate Outreach
37:34 – Ghost-Posting, Job Market Ethics & Sales Mindset
40:44 – Recruitment as a True Partnership
44:58 – The Role of AI & Automation in Modern Hiring
46:00 – Creating Active Talent Pools & Talent Academies
53:06 – Moving Beyond CVs: Actionable Data and Structured Hiring
01:02:09 – What Is Octopus? Rethinking Recruitment with Smart Pre-Interviews
01:05:22 – Connect With C. Guz & Closing Thoughts
Video Description (Keyword Optimised):
Welcome to this powerful episode of the Inclusion Bites Podcast with your host, Joanne Lockwood, where we tackle the crucial topic: Turning Rejections into Opportunities. This episode delves into the heart of modern, inclusive recruitment, featuring special guest C. Guz, entrepreneur and founder/CEO of Octopus, who candidly shares her journey from facing over 13,000 job rejections to pioneering change in candidate experience and recruitment technology.
Here, we uncover:
How to turn setbacks into fuel for empowerment and innovation in your career
Why the current recruitment process often fails both applicants and organisations
Actionable strategies for building trust, psychological safety, and inclusion from the first candidate touchpoint
How employer branding and candidate experience directly impact long-term talent retention
The implications of AI, automation, and psychometric assessments in hiring decisions
The urgent need to move beyond outdated CVs and towards actionable, contextual candidate data
Best practices for recruiters to nurture partnership-based relationships with candidates
Key Takeaways for HR Professionals, D&I Practitioners, and Forward-Thinking Recruiters:
• Discover practical ways to make your candidate experience more human-centric and inclusive
• Gain insights on balancing speed, cost, and experience in high-volume hiring
• Explore how transparency, communication, and feedback strengthen your talent pipeline and employer reputation
• Understand the latest in tech-enabled recruitment and what truly sets top employers apart
• Learn to spot and counteract bias, ghost-posting, and automation pitfalls in the recruitment journey
Whether you’re striving to upgrade your hiring practices, reduce bias, or future-proof your employer brand, this conversation will arm you with actionable insights and real-world inspiration. Benefit from C. Guz's hands-on experience and discover the tools to support candidates—from job application to onboarding—with fairness, feedback, and real opportunity to thrive.
👉 Don’t forget:
🔔 Subscribe for weekly episodes packed with expert insights on inclusive cultures, recruitment best practices, and strategies for real change
🌐 Visit seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen for more resources, to join the conversation, or to become a guest
📥 Share your thoughts or stories with Joanne at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk
▶️ Watch another episode: [Inclusive Hiring: Removing Bias from the Process]
Relevant Hashtags:
#InclusionBites #InclusiveRecruitment #CandidateExperience #HiringBestPractices #DiversityAndInclusion #DEI #EmployerBranding #HRTech #CareerDevelopment #TalentAcquisition #EmploymentEquity
How Will This Episode Help You?
If you’re looking to champion diverse talent, build a robust employer brand, or simply ensure your hiring process is up to contemporary standards, this episode provides a blueprint you can implement straight away. Hear firsthand how rethinking rejection, investing in candidate experience, and leveraging inclusive recruitment technology can transform your talent pipeline and organisational culture—ensuring everyone not only belongs, but thrives.
Tune in, take notes, and start changing the world of work—one inclusive conversation at a time!
Substack Post
Turning Rejection Into Belonging: Rethinking Recruitment for True Inclusion
Have you ever felt like a number in a hiring process—lost in a sea of applications, unseen, unheard? Or perhaps, as a recruiter, overwhelmed by a mountain of CVs, pressured to act fast yet yearning for a more human touch? Whether you’re a candidate or an HR decision-maker, we’ve all brushed up against the sharp edges of recruitment. In a world striving for belonging and equity, why does the experience of hiring and being hired still feel so transactional—and what can we do to humanise the process?
This is the heart of our latest Inclusion Bites Podcast episode, "Turning Rejections Into Opportunities," where I sit down with the remarkable C. Guz—entrepreneur, jobseeker, and change-maker on a mission to revolutionise recruitment. Together, we unravel the knotty challenges of hiring and explore genuine, practical solutions that elevate people above paperwork.
Facing the Numbers—and Seeing the People Behind Them
This episode takes us on a journey not just through numbers, but lived experience. C. brings a breathtaking candour to our discussion, sharing her reality of over 13,000 rejections, months of unemployment, and the sting of invisibility within standard hiring processes. Yet, rather than remaining mired in discouragement, she’s channelled her journey into advocacy and innovation—committed to rewriting the rules for candidates and recruiters alike.
Why is this conversation essential for HR professionals, D&I leaders, recruitment teams, and those guiding organisational growth? Because hiring is not simply a numbers game; it is the gateway to our culture, our brand, and ultimately, our collective sense of belonging.
We examine:
The toll of automated, de-personalised recruitment tech,
How candidate experience and employer brand intertwine,
What truly inclusive hiring looks like beyond empty promises.
And crucially, we ask: Where are the human stories in your hiring strategy?
Fresh Perspectives with C. Guz: Beyond the Historical CV
C., joining us from Istanbul, brings a dual vantage point: both as someone relentlessly navigating global job markets and as a founder recruiting for her own startup. She peels back the curtain on both sides of the equation. Her fierce critique? The ubiquitous CV—reduced to a cold collection of data points, divorced from personality, value, and context.
She recounts the moment she sifted through 2,000 faceless resumes for a single role and how dissatisfying, even disheartening, that felt: "You're not telling the value I can bring... You’re reducing me to data points that don’t translate into who I am."
Together, we challenge the status quo: Can we move beyond a Wikipedia of past achievements, and instead invite candidates to show us who they are now, and who they could become?
Practical Tactics to Reinvigorate Inclusive Recruitment
What can you do to transform your own hiring landscape? Here are some actionable insights from my conversation with C. that you can apply today:
Make Candidate Experience a Strategic Pillar
Candidate experience is not a ‘nice to have’—it’s a direct reflection of your organisational culture and a powerful predictor of employee retention. As C. puts it, "If you don’t nail that, how can you expect to retain those candidates as employees?" Invest in clarity, fairness, and feedback at each touchpoint.Embrace Transparency as Trust-Building Currency
From clear job descriptions to outlining the stages of your process and even naming the real people candidates will engage with, transparent communication is your quiet superpower. Share realistic insights about culture and progression, and set honest expectations from the outset.Reimagine How You Assess Potential
Go beyond the CV. Use reflective, scenario-based questions or workplace samples to uncover relevant skills, thinking styles, and personality. As we discussed, "We’re hiring people, not paper." Replace ‘what have you done?’ with ‘how would you approach?’Give Actionable Feedback, Not Silence
Ghosting candidates damages your employer brand and trust in the whole process. Even when rejecting, provide meaningful, automated feedback—so every candidate leaves with dignity, and learns something for their next step.Build Bridges, Not Walls—Recruitment as Partnership, Not Transaction
Shift the mindset from "candidates are products" to "recruitment is a collaboration." Encourage two-way evaluation. Create space for candidates to express aspirations and reflect on what they seek, not just what you demand.
See for Yourself: A Moment That Captures the Essence
Curious to hear a pivotal moment from our conversation? Watch this 1-minute audiogram for a glimpse into how C. redefines candidate experience—with humanity and honesty at the core. It’s a snapshot that beautifully encapsulates our shared vision for recruitment as a living, breathing, relational process.
Watch the audiogram highlight here
Explore the Full Conversation
I invite you to listen to the episode in full—whether you’re an HR leader, a recruiter weighed down by process, or a candidate looking for hope and practical insight.
Listen to “Turning Rejections Into Opportunities” here
If our discussion resonates, please do share it with your teams, networks, and anyone else invested in making hiring fairer, kinder, and more effective. Let’s ensure that every rejected candidate leaves the table feeling seen, valued, and ready to thrive somewhere else.
Where Do We Go From Here?
As we wrapped up, one question lingered in my mind, and I’d like to leave you with it:
How might your organisation’s approach to recruitment change if you saw every interaction—not just as a gatekeeping exercise, but as an opportunity to foster dignity, learning, and genuine connection?
We have the tools, but do we have the will to put humanity at the heart of hiring?
Until next time, let’s keep challenging, keep listening, and keep building workplaces where everyone feels they truly belong.
Warm regards,
Joanne Lockwood
Host of the Inclusion Bites Podcast
The Inclusive Culture Expert at SEE Change Happen
Let’s stay connected!
LinkedIn – For regular updates and vibrant discussion.
Website – For more articles, resources, and ways we can support your inclusion journey.
Full episode library – Explore more bold conversations on Inclusion Bites.
For collaborations, speaking requests, or to share your own story, drop me a line at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk.
What’s your next move to bring more inclusion into your recruitment practice?
1st Person Narrative Content
Turning Rejections into Opportunities: Building Human-Centric Recruitment from the Ashes of Setback
“After 13,000 rejections, you either rebuild the system or let it break you. I chose to rebuild.”
Some moments in life are formative—so disruptive in their pain or abruptness that your only options are to surrender or to harness the energy and charge forward anew. For me, navigating thousands of job application rejections wasn’t merely a bruising rite of passage. It seeded a mission: to humanise recruitment, making it an empowering experience for both candidates and employers, not a soul-crushing one.
Lately, I've found myself reflecting deeply on this journey, particularly after my recent conversation with Joanne Lockwood on the Inclusion Bites Podcast. Joanne is one of the most authentic, impact-driven voices in inclusion—an advocate capable of teasing out the private doubts, harsh realities, and quiet hopes that underpin the hiring process. Our discussion didn’t just rehash familiar complaints; it dissected the deep structural problems and invited real solutions.
If you see yourself somewhere in this story—job seeker, employer, frustrated recruiter or simply a believer in fairer systems—I want to share what I’ve learned, how I’m responding, and what needs to change. Let’s talk openly about dignity, about turning rejection into rocket fuel, and about why “belonging” must sit at the heart of the future of work.
The Podcast and the Host
Inclusion Bites, hosted by Joanne Lockwood, exists to spark transformation in our approach to inclusion and belonging. Joanne herself is a social entrepreneur and inclusion consultant, having built SEE Change Happen into a leading voice for workplace equity across Europe. Her interviewing style cuts through surface-level platitudes to reveal both hard-won lessons and hopeful paths forward—qualities sorely needed in the conversation around recruitment.
More than [INSERT_VIEW_COUNT] people have already watched our interview on YouTube, with many more tuning in via Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
If anything in these reflections resonates or troubles you, I urge you to comment below—tell me where you stand, where I’m wrong, what you’ve lived yourself. I read every reply, and I value the exchange.
Why Rejection Feels Broken—and What It Can Build
Thirteen thousand. That’s the ballpark figure of times I was rejected during my job search journey. It sounds dramatic, but it was reality—a relentless cascade of “no’s,” a torrent of ghosted applications, and a period of deep financial insecurity and self-doubt.
Each automated response or, worse, radio silence left a bigger crater in my confidence. As Joanne pointed out in our conversation, “You get to the end of that process and you have zero faith or trust in the system… You think, well, this is just pointless.” I saw myself in that: the weary, slightly cynical, but ultimately still-hopeful candidate waiting for someone to recognise my value.
But here’s the rub: rejection, especially in its most impersonal, automated forms, doesn’t just harm candidates. It damages brands, undermines trust, and hollows out the future talent pipeline. Bad candidate experience, as Joanne reminded me, correlates directly with attrition; people who are bruised in the hiring phase rarely become loyal, thriving employees. And, quite bluntly—if your brand builds its recruitment on exclusionary, transactional, or careless practices, candidates will talk. Publicly.
This epiphany pushed me to shift focus from personal disappointment to collective solution. If millions are experiencing the same cycles of dejection and disempowerment, isn’t it a dereliction of duty not to fix what’s clearly broken? I couldn’t accept that inertia. Out of ashes of setback, a vision formed: helping everyone navigate the chaos by making the system more humane.
The Systemic Flaws of Recruitment: Data, Bias, and Broken Feedback Loops
Let’s get specific. The recruitment status quo is not set up to select talent; it is built to reject efficiently. Joanne captured it succinctly: the initial sift is a “gatekeeping” exercise, designed to process immense volumes and minimise inconvenience for recruiters, not to discover the hidden gems.
When I had to review 2,000 CVs for my own start-up’s roles, the tables turned. Suddenly it wasn’t just about being ignored—it was about my inability, as an employer, to see the human behind the CV. The one-pager told me little about what truly matters: a person’s value, potential, or contextual achievements.
Resumes are a relic of an earlier era, more Wikipedia than roadmap. They reduce people to bullet points and omit the contextual stories, ambitions, or behaviours that predict real job performance. As employers, we crave standardised, actionable data—yet, paradoxically, our traditional tools give us little of either.
The system's biases further compound the mess. We use formats and formulas that discount neurodiversity, favour certain kinds of experiences and communication styles, and often unconsciously filter out anyone who doesn’t match an unspoken archetype. And then, ironically, we lament talent shortages.
Add in the rise of AI, pre-selection software, and psychometric testing, and things only become more fraught. As Joanne noted, “What we’re doing is almost forcing people to act,” shaping themselves into whatever persona the process seems to demand. The result? An arms race of keyword-stuffed CVs, formulaic cover letters, and candidates gaming psychometric “right answers”—not real human connection.
In this landfill of applications, trust corrodes. Both sides start seeing the other as adversaries or obstacles, not partners.
Rebuilding Trust Through Authentic Candidate Experience
Trust doesn’t begin when someone is hired. It starts—crucially—at the very first point of contact. Yet most careers pages, job descriptions, and recruitment comms are exercises in generic “employer branding,” laced with buzzwords but devoid of real substance or clarity.
What if, instead, we were radically transparent? What if we said, here is exactly what the journey will look like. Here’s who you’ll talk to, what we’ll ask, and why. Here’s what the culture really means to us, not just as an aspirational phrase, but as lived day-to-day reality. When I began recruiting myself, I saw the difference this made—candidates who didn’t just “apply,” but genuinely engaged, invested, and reflected.
Joanne pressed on the importance of feedback, reminding us that “if you don’t value those people, they’re going to talk about it—your employer brand is candidates.” Increasingly, companies are being scrutinised not just for how they treat employees, but for how they treat aspiring employees. In the age of Glassdoor and social media, information flows freely, and brands live and die by these micro-moments of candidate experience.
One transformative idea: make hiring processes a two-way partnership, not an interrogation. Interview performance too often trumps job performance potential. We need workplaces—and hiring—where the candidate’s needs, growth ambitions, and skills are weighed as carefully as the employer’s requirements.
For neurodivergent candidates and others historically sidelined by the system, simple steps—like sending questions in advance or breaking from rigid formats—can make all the difference. That’s inclusion in practice, not in policy.
The Technology Conundrum: Is AI the Villain or the Vessel?
We now live in a world where CV-generating bots compete with applicant-tracking algorithms, and “no-code” automation tools pump out mass-targeted, ‘personalised’ applications en masse. What’s lost is the human: both the signal from the candidate and the genuine ability for employers to see beyond surface-level “fit.”
Joanne and I traded stories of recruiters sifting for “a simple human being among the ChatGPT cover letters.” The problem is not just automation; it’s the absence of intention—the lack of real effort or care. If both sides are just gaming the system, then everyone loses: unsatisfied hires, higher attrition, and wasted effort.
Governments, rightly, are imposing constraints on the use of AI for hiring decisions, demanding that humans remain in the loop. But most tech stacks are still failing at the basics: providing actionable, bias-aware data that actually enables sound, human judgement.
Here’s the challenge then: how do we leverage technology’s scale to augment rather than replace empathy, discernment, and human touch? For me, the answer lies in targeted, thoughtfully designed tools—like the ones we’re building at Octopus—that empower both recruiters and candidates to share, understand, and act on real strengths and preferences, not just keywords or tick boxes.
Evolving From Transaction to Partnership: Towards Inclusive, Human Recruitment
At the core, this is about redefining the recruitment relationship. Too often, hiring is seen as a zero-sum game: the employer holding all the cards, the candidate jumping through hoops, the rejection cold and transactional. But this mindset has landed us in an impasse of wasted potential.
Imagine if recruitment evolved from gatekeeping to curation; from adversarial filtering to mutual discovery. We should be looking not just for “the” right fit for this very moment, but for people whose growth trajectories can support—and be supported by—the company’s evolution over time.
Joanne shared a vision for companies building “talent academies”—venues for skill-building, career pivoting, and active nurturing of potential, not passive pools of CVs left to languish in a database. The ideal: bring someone in because you believe in them, then help them find their best seat at the ever-changing company table. The effect? Deeper loyalty, more innovation, and a virtuous cycle of trust.
Of course, not every employer can launch an in-house academy or rotation scheme overnight; scale and resources matter. But every company can do the small things: move past the archaic reliance on historical CVs, design interviews around real workplace challenges, allow for multiple pathways and contexts, and give honest, actionable feedback, even in rejection.
What’s needed is not technocratic reform, but courage—a willingness to treat recruitment as a partnership of equals, not a conveyor belt.
Octopus: My Tentacle in the Solution
If the old system breeds burnout and blocks inclusivity, what’s the alternative? I genuinely believe that actionable, mutual data—shared fairly by both sides—is a cornerstone. That conviction underpins Octopus, the platform I now lead.
Our approach is deceptively simple: empower organisations to move only candidates who truly align with their needs into the pipeline, using smart pre-interview questionnaires generated from real job data. Candidates are given the chance to show, not just tell, their value and aspirations. For recruiters, it’s actionable evidence; for candidates, it’s dignity restored.
As I see it: each side receives feedback—specific, structured, humane. Even those who don’t make it to later rounds leave with insight, not just another unanswered application. For every pre-interview, both the candidate and recruiter get precise data on where alignment exists and where it doesn’t, making each hiring cycle an opportunity for growth rather than a black box.
We don’t pretend that machines can replace human hiring decisions. But they can be the extra tentacle that helps you see the nuances, clearing away the noise and giving you more space to relate to the person, not just the profile.
Bringing It Full Circle: Building the Bridge
Rejection, for me, was never just about personal adversity. It illuminated all the unseen opportunity costs—the wasted talent, the eroded trust, the broken relationships—embedded in the recruitment status quo. If we’re to build something more dignified and productive, we need not just new technology, but new intent. We need candidate experience at the centre. We need real feedback, real partnership, and real opportunities for belonging.
As I look back at my conversation with Joanne Lockwood—whose resolve and radical candour continue to energise me—I’m reaffirmed in the belief that inclusion is not the domain of HR departments or compliance checklists. It’s embedded in every touchpoint, every rejection email, every awkward first interview. It’s there, quietly shaping who feels seen—and who chooses to stay.
So, to anyone out there struggling through rejection or questioning the system: turn that pain into design. Use your outsider vantage point to rebuild not just your own path, but perhaps the very road itself.
As always, if you have thoughts—arguments, memories, critiques—add them below. This isn’t just my journey or Joanne’s story; it’s a conversation we’re all writing, one bold act of inclusion at a time.
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