Welcome to the National Council For Hypnotherapy Podcast, where we dive into the fascinating world of hypnosis, lifting the lid on hypnotherapy, sharing insights and tips for change as we chat. So sit back, relax, and enjoy all the wonderful possibilities of hypnotherapy. My name is Tracey Grist, and I will be your host today. So, I'm here today with Bonnie Williamson. Bonnie is in private practice as a hypnotherapist, and is developing work around perimenopausal issues like weight loss, anxiety, all the things that come with the change that us women all go through at some point in our lives, inevitably. So you've been doing a lot of work particularly around weight loss and anxiety. And thank you for coming. Thank you for coming.

So

I'm happy.

Brilliant. How did you take the path of hypnotherapy? What what was your draw?

Okay. Oh, it could be a long story, but I'll try and try and make it as brief as I can. Okay. So I started out life. My main career was as a mental health nurse. So I was a mental health nurse for over 25 years, and, I did everything I wanted to do in mental health. And I suppose you can see that I already had an interest in the mind and and some what makes us do the things we do and how we can use our thinking and how we feel and and improve our lives. But I was always interested in, kind of like the wellness end rather than the the mental illness.

I was always kind of itching. So I always had a plan, but at some point or other, I was gonna take early retirement. I was going to do some kind of therapy and private practice. Anyway, so life carried on. And, like I said, I did everything I wanted to do in mental health. But what I kind of sort of on reflection, I can see that I don't in the don't quite know when this started to happen. Maybe it was my late thirties, forties, definitely my late forties, early fifties, the perimenopause. Yeah.

I started to very gradually lose my mojo, but it happens really, really slowly. And then it kicked in a bit more, like forties and fifties. And, well, you know, I battled through it as you do. I'm a nurse. You know?

Resilient and strong.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Carry on, and I'm I'm obviously expensive. So I did I did carry on. And then, eventually, I sort of I changed jobs searching, got a job out of mental health. I thought, well, maybe it's like just needing something else. I was always looking for something else to, to change things up a bit. But, yeah, then we're it really kicked in.

Right? And so, I I mean, most people think menopause. They think hot flashes. Well, that's what I thought. I knew nothing. Right? I didn't understand what was happening to me. I didn't understand where this anxiety was coming from, and the brain fog. I mean, it was all like I had cotton all in my head. And, Yeah.

I, I was just absolutely at my wit's end with it. And then we got the back of the end of the story. This is the job that it's like, you know, I had this person in my life who was quite toxic to me, and this person was quite good at amplifying all the things that I was anxious about. So I had anxiety and I was, yeah, stressed. And so they made me feel more anxious because they tend to amplify the anxiety. They tended to, well, increase my feelings of, lack of confidence, which was I already had.

Okay.

And this was gaslighting. I I didn't know what that was. Still, I didn't really feel good around this person. And what that told me is that you can actually change how people feel by planting little seeds in their mind, does this make sense? And you can use the way you say things again to sort of encourage people to think different ways. And, again, this is quite subtle. It was going over a period of years, so it wasn't like, you know, therapy. So it was going over a period of years. So then I kind of realized that actually, if you can do it in a negative way, you can really do it in a positive way.

Yeah? Is that is that making sense? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Putting positive seeds in people's minds and and putting things in such a way that you can encourage them to feel better or positive, more confident. So that was already going in my mind. Then it gets a bit why I'm retiring. Right? And, thank you. Right? What do I do? I wanna do something that I use the same skills, but I want to be so different because I want to increase my confidence.

I wanna prove to myself that I haven't got the mentor because I was worried I had.

Oh gosh. Yeah.

I need to learn something new. I need to prove to myself that I can do that. Hypnosis popped in my mind, but I quickly her absence. My daughter was going out with somebody whose mother was a solution focused therapist. Ah. And she said, why don't you talk with my boyfriend's mom? So I did. And she was so lovely. She was so positive.

She was so positive about, solution focused hypnotherapy. And she made me feel like, yeah, you're gonna really like this. You could do this. And so I decided to investigate. So I got in touch with my local planner, and the rest is history.

Yeah. And so so when you were at your lowest and feeling, like, that lack of resilience both physically and emotionally, did you could you see out or were you stuck in it with all the difficulties around you? How how did you manage to find your help?

Yeah. Well, yeah, I was really stuck in it. Yes. And everybody said, oh, you must go to counseling, and and so I did. And I talked about it. I talked about it every week. You know, I talked about this person and that and how did it make me feel. And it was like, yes.

I could talk about it till I'm in the face, but until I can work out something different to do that I can do differently about it, this isn't going to resolve. So in the end, I'm I was actually able to extricate myself in the situation and not have contact with this person anymore. And I wasn't when they weren't at my world, then it was good. You know? I realized it was them. Yeah. Yeah. Just about everything. It was just the things that they made me feel anxious about.

So, you know but, obviously, I lost confidence generally, you know, because you do it. Because what things tend to invade different parts of your life, don't they? You know? If it's good in one part, you can transfer it to the next. If it's bad, it will, but it's sort of some And still, it affects the way you just.

But also, I think of women at at at the age we've got so many things going on with our children, we've got so many things going on in life. It's really easy to take responsibility for everything and go, oh, it's all my fault. Like, it's what I'm doing because I don't feel great anyway. And so

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm I'm really a person who would do that. Yes. You know, it's all going to be. And I'd always been looking at what was I doing wrong in the relationship. You know? And and that person was never taking any responsibility in in anything. It was by what? You see the highlight.

Okay? You know? Yeah.

So, Howard, so so when you discovered solution, what so what how is solution focused hypnotherapy different to normal hypnotherapy or normal therapy even?

Yeah. Well, it's because we are focused on the solution, well, it says on on the chin, so we're always we're always sort of future focused. So we're looking at what is it you want instead of the problem. So going along with my traditional therapy, I talked about the problem a lot. And and I kinda knew that I wanted to get to a solution, but but I couldn't, and I didn't know how to get the therapist to get me to a solution. So but what I would have liked, I suppose, would have been somebody to ask me, get my strengths, make me more aware of what my strengths was. So how have you coped in the sit in similar situations? Because then, obviously, there must have been similar situations in my life where I felt lacking and confident. You know, so what was different in those times? What was I doing at in those times that helped me to get through? So it's about identifying people's strengths, what they do well, what's working well, so they can do more of it.

So you're, you're wanting people to work to to see what their future might be like without the problem. And that's difficult when you're feeling stuck, isn't it? Because when I was stuck, it was like there was this big boulder in the way that I couldn't move out. And I, you know, wanted to I couldn't quite visit, like, what it would be like without it. And once you start to visualize what it might be like without the problem, then you start to see the solutions a bit clearer. You start it's a little bit easier to identify what so, you know, what would be happening if you were then a bit better? What, you know, what would it look like? What would you be doing? What would people notice about you? So it's all about getting people to that future place and and sort of mapping it out in tiny little steps. Because when you first saw the problem, you're at the bottom of the mountain, so to speak, and you can only look up to this huge mountain in front of you, and you can't see the steps. So what I help people to do is to see those little steps and identify what they are, and they can be really small because it's be doable. But, you know, but, obviously, it's gonna be a stretch.

They'd actually be doing it, wouldn't you? And that so that might be something simple, like well, it sounds simple, but maybe it isn't. But, you know, like going to bed early, earlier than you're going. Yeah. Because you've got to get into that routine. But what what difference does it make? Well, often people will identify that if I got to bed a little bit earlier, I'd feel a bit better in the morning. And if I felt a little bit better in the morning, I'd get out of bed earlier. And, you know, what would happen next? Well, I might be looking forward to the day a little bit more. That's what I really want to happen.

I wanna be looking forward to the day. Well, what would happen if you were looking forward to the day? Well, I've been smiling at my husband. Oh, what would he notice about that? Well, I've noticed that I'm moving a bit quicker. I suppose I'm thinking better, aren't I? And then, well, you know, what would happen next? Well, we might go and have breakfast together. You know? So you've kind of gone from, like, feeling miserable in the morning to coming back because of your husband, which might be something you wanted to do because you weren't doing that because you didn't look at anybody because you were feeling miserable. Is that right? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's those it's those micro oh, excuse me. It's those micro changes, isn't it? Where that can shift so many things easily.

Yeah? Yeah. That's right. Because we're always looking for these big changes, and it's not because the little changes lead to something else. Because it's not just about how you are as a person. It's like so the person that is with you will notice how you are presenting in some way. There's gonna be something different, and that might change how they react. And then who knows what might happen? You know? And it's sometimes it's about having a conversation. Often, people will talk about, oh, I need to talk to my boss about blah blah blah.

Yeah. And

I'm gonna talk to the boss. And then they feel so much better the next week. You know, it might not change a huge sort of thing, but it might change something. If we decided, like, yeah, well, I'm gonna look for another job now. Yes. And then she's like, yeah. The moment I tried, and they didn't work, and, nah. I've gotta go.

But the, oh, she didn't really understand me. I wasn't expecting that. You know? Because you have to know what's going to happen if you do something different, do you?

NCH, exactly, exactly. And I think seeing to help that confidence, you do something different that you wouldn't ordinarily do, can just in itself be a godsend really, just to have that somebody on your side.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And you also get to hear yourself talk, You you know what I mean? And when you talk to somebody else, it comes out a bit differently. And sometimes people talk about having a bit of accountability even though I'm not going to hold them accountable because I'm not even though at the end of each session, I've got them to identify a small little action they're gonna take, I won't check them up because I'm solution focused, future focused. I don't talk about last week or next week. But sometimes people, you know, they do tell me if they've done the thing. Or sometimes, they do something else instead, and that's fine because that might be a better idea than change their mind. And then sometimes, they come back a few weeks later, and you still say, oh, I didn't do that thing, but, actually, maybe it is time to do that thing.

You know? And and they're all just telling me because they want me to sort of help them because they just feel I'm a bit more I'm helping them to be accountable. And that's

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. So so you you're shifting into working with the perimenopause and women going through it. What was that because of your experience? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I think because, because I'm really interested in the fact that I didn't know anything about it, and I was a nurse. And, you know, it and I trained as a general nurse a long time before I was a mental health. But I mean, I didn't know anything about it at all. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And and and all these symptoms that I had, I realized they were symptoms of the perimenopause.

You know? Like, I've had palpitations, and I never knew until I looked into the car. That's why I had those. You know? And, yeah, and I I think, you you know, sometimes it's when you've got that insight into something, it's really helpful. I mean, I I don't talk much about my experience because they're not just there to hear about me, are they? So, but sometimes it's good to know that that person does have some experience of of how you felt. You know? And and, yeah, I know I know all sorts of different symptoms that I have, but then, I mean, lots of my clients have different symptoms. Like, yeah, I never worried about what functions. They weren't an issue for me, but and they're a huge issue for some people.

And it's tricky, isn't it? Going through it myself, I feel that I didn't know that I was perimenopausal. I just thought I was depressed. I thought and I rationalized it by, you know, we're in COVID, and although I'm working, I work with hardcore issues and maybe that's all got on top of me. And I was thinking I was resilient, but and so all the time I was thinking, what because I was still having periods. So in my mind, like, when you go through the menopause, you don't have periods. And I thought it so I just thought because I was having periods, that I wasn't perimenopausal because I was expecting not to be bleeding. I was expecting to have hot flashes, and I wasn't having hot flashes. And so I was just overwhelmed, tired, Bjorn.

Yes, I am. Miserable. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I think it was only the fact that I did have mental health training that really helped me also because I knew, I knew what's real symptoms of depression was. I knew my food my mood was down, but I it was it it wasn't depression. It was it was all about the situation I was in as well. And I knew I have the anxiety, though, the anxiety that was bad, but I think it would have been even worse if I didn't understand it.

But I think understanding something is is a lot helps you, you know, sort of knowledge is power. Oh, okay. That's why that's happening, this is why I'm doing this. It's an enormous little, you know, well, you know, it's something that Hypnosis sometimes, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. And I I think, you know, at our age group, we've got so much going on anyway. And again Yeah.

It does it does hit at the time when you're the most busy because it's all like you've probably got a lot going on in your career, probably got teenage children Oh, yeah. Getting older and more demanding. I mean, it's all just a perfect storm, really, isn't it? And you probably well, I certainly I just didn't even think about it. I just thought, oh, well, that's just the the thing you go through, and it's hot flashes and it's all done. But, of course, now I realize even when I reflect back on my mom, I was like, yeah, actually, you know what? It was quite a tough time, and I didn't click. That was also a thing for her. You know, I saw the little plushies. But I the rest of it, I didn't click at all.

There were like, Oh, yeah. You know? There's a lot going on for her at that time too.

Yeah. And it's tricky because it is such there isn't enough general knowledge about it. And I certainly know with clients who go to the doctors and they're almost saying to the doctors, these are my symptoms of perimenopause, and the doctors going, no, we need to prescribe your antidepressants.

Yes.

And that knowledge isn't out there. It's getting there, thankfully.

Yeah. And I think I was quite lucky that I have, a really good GP who could see that it wasn't really depressed, which I don't think any depressants would be NCH. But he didn't mention menopause.

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's I don't know. Yeah. And I think the more we speak about it and just how early it happens and all of that information that people can go, oh, maybe I need to rethink symptoms I've got. You know, there's like dozens and dozens of symptoms, and we can just have 4. We can have all of them.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's something I heard the other day that I thought was a symptom. What was it? Oh, it was an odd symptom that I had when I think, oh, it's not bad, but I didn't realize it was done. Oh, wow. I don't think it was oh, it'll come back to me. But it's things like that.

I run out of words.

I'm so I'm so vocal and I'll talk to anyone and I'll start a sentence off and I'll think, where are the rest of my words?

Oh, yeah. God. Yes. And I'm I mean, I'm better than I was NCH, but, you know, I don't know if it's a stage now. I can't remember my brain does work reasonably well, but Yeah. Yeah. Memory's not great, but it's good enough.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's just, I don't know, it's so it can be so disabling. Because it's your hormones, you don't know that you're in it either. It's a little bit like, you know, when we've got PMT, and you know that one day before your period, like, you might be like a crazy woman, I am, a crazy woman who can't park either, you know, I have that. But because I'm in it, I don't recognize that I'm in it until people are going, maybe turn it down a bit, you know, and maybe don't drive today.

No.

So I I don't know. It's been

I remember this.

I remember this. I thought I'll come.

Hang on. Just wait for it. Shoulder and shoulder. That was it. Adam. Yeah. So it's also through the hormones and how I mean, hormones affects, you know, everywhere. So, yes, even even in your bones.

I had that twice in that period of time. The first time was really bad.

And that's that's funny. It's not

funny. Sorry. That's me. It's my nerves.

It's no. It but that's Kina, I literally was in the hospital yesterday with my shoulder.

I always laugh. It felt funny.

I think that's part of part of our profession.

Yeah. I don't know how we've done it.

So but you also work with weight loss around perimenopause as well.

Oh, that's just another thing. You know, always kind of thought, oh, it's really hard to sort of control the feel happy about the waiting in component. And and, again, around the menopause time, it it sort of went quite a bit for me. So, yes, and I think it was always an area that of interest for me, because I think if I can help people to Yeah. Be able to do that. I and I remember a long, long time ago meeting a lady who had had a long history of depression, and, and and she mentioned about how weight that was all kind of tied up with it. And then I realized how, you know, all things to do with her childhood were were all sort of tied up with her relationship with food. So, and I think food was a bit of an issue that probably wasn't quite enough of it when she was young or it was kind of lost conditions around it and that kind of thing.

So it thought of, you know, made me think quite a lot about that. And I think that, yes, I would like to be able to help people with that. And and, of course, you know, you know, now I can sort of do things that I'm interested in now. So, yeah, I mean, I I'm not just interested. No. No. No. But that that's kind of

I I suppose I'm just curious, really. So what would you consider a healthy relationship with food looking like? What what would be the solution towards that?

Well, I think, well, I mean, often people use food as a way to cope with things, and perhaps they're not really aware of it, because they're wanting some food is there to replace something sometimes. So, you know, like, we eat when we're bored. We eat when we're angry even. We eat when we're happy. We eat when we're lonely. And it's being able to recognize what do we actually need. You know? So it's like, why am I going to the fridge at 11 o'clock at night when I've already had dinner, you know, realizing, oh, actually, am I hungry? Do I really need this? And sometimes it's about realizing that it, you know, that it's like because you're not going to eat that piece of cake NCH, it doesn't mean that you're never gonna eat a piece of cake in your life. So you do eat you do not need to eat that piece of cake.

But sometimes we have that sort of famine mentality in our brain. It's like because we are we are genetically designed really to eat food when we see it because we haven't really had an outbreak since, you know, a woman times. So so, you know, we we something in our brain is going, oh, cake. I've got to eat it. But you haven't because we live in a time when food is just all around us. Yeah. It's it's just having that relationship with food that it's there as nourishment. I mean, you can you know, we we do enjoy it.

That's, I mean, also we're designed to enjoy that because nature wants us to enjoy food because we need it. So we, you know, we need that dopamine boost that we get when we eat. Mhmm. And, of course, you know, food can be nice things, like sharing it with friends, and it can be interesting, different recipes and all that sort of thing. So, you know, it's about enjoying it but not feeling that it's in control of you, that you have no control over what you eat.

Yeah.

You know? And and and making sure you eat nourishing food, foods that's healthy. I'm sure you know, we, as a society, we do eat a lot of processed food, don't we, which which isn't very healthy, is it? It just sort of drives our weight gain really. So not we have lots of, I would say, dead calories. I don't care. I can't think of anything. They don't like you know, they're nice, but they're not really nourishing

me. Yeah.

Have a bowl of ice cream, but, you know, it's got a good point. It's got to be in balance, doesn't it? We have to feel like, yes, occasionally. So it should be like 80, 20. 80 the time we're eating thirsty food, and 20 is sort of other things I'd quite like to enjoy.

It's finding the balance, isn't it?

Yeah. I always think life's about balance. So definitely. Because I mean, nothing's a problem till it's a problem, really. You know, we all we all eat food for emotional reasons, but, but it's only when it becomes a problem that it's a problem.

Yeah. Yeah. True enough. True enough. So what would a session look like? So what, How how do you work with clients? Is this session an hour?

How how what happens? But each session is roughly an hour. So because, we are very much wanting people to be in the part of our brain we've kind of talked about as, like, our intellectual part of our brains, the part of the brain where we're much more positive, we're seeing things more logically, and we're coming up with the answers based on a proper assessment of the situation. So I wanna keep people in that part of their brain. So when they come along, they probably don't even notice this, but I'm quite sort of, talk about something inconsequential. So, like, it there's usually a little if it's in a face to face plant, there's a little walk through the garden, and I'll talk about the molecules in the beard. And and and they're like, look. So and husband's gonna vote. They're all in consequential language because I don't want them to still be thinking about anything stressy.

Yeah. That comes into my conversation quite a lot. I'm very British. And, and then I, each session, everybody has, comes and tells me what's going well during the week, what's been good. So, you know, things that gave them pleasure and things that they enjoyed, maybe improvements. What have they noticed at school? Well, sometimes they're like, you know, maybe the first session they're noticing, but then they think, oh, my cart was like, well, this is your download. I I was really surprised to how actually it was quite good. It was like, So, yeah, I yeah.

I'm sick. Well, I wouldn't. Right. So there seems to be something that comes up that's good even though they weren't expecting it. So that's all about taking them in you can tell them getting excited, can't you? It's good. It's good. So, so they still have to talk about, you know, kind of what's thinking. So that's gonna keep them in their intellectual mind.

Because if you talk about a problem, that's when you go into your primitive mind, and you can't solve your problems when you're like, you know, sort of this. You're looking for the next problem, aren't you? So, so then also, the next part of the session is, when we come to a little bit of stuff on the brain because, I've always done the brain bit of the first session as well. So talk a lot about the brain and understand what's happening in their brain in relation to the problem of coping. So just thinking a little bit about each session, because even though I told them they might need to do a bit more, they might need to remember it. They're it's all about trying to help them to to answer the next bit of the question we're in. Putting a lot of something said, knowing your power. And then the next part of the session, I might get them to scale how they're feeling. So how happy are they? And happiness is maybe well, you know, it's usually not happy as a good thing or a good way of balancing it.

You know? Or I might ask them to scale something specific, but happiness comes up quite a lot. So 10 is off the scale and 0 is the other one. Right NCH, see where they are because I'm scared. And, what else? So the next part is like the solution focused part of the session. So that is as a solution focused therapist, if you know anything about solution focused therapy, it's the miracle question. So the miracle question is kind of getting people to visualize the mix. Well, basically, what what is the problem gonna be? When the problem's gone, what's life gonna be?

Oh, okay.

So the solution focused question, the NCH question is something like, it could be, okay, so I'm gonna ask you a really unusual question. That problem, the one we just talked about. Well, just imagine that there's a miracle that just happened and, well, you've gone home tonight and you've done all the normal things that you do And, you go to bed and you go to sleep and wake up tomorrow morning. And while you're asleep, a miracle happens, but you don't know that the miracle happens because of the sting, and the miracle ends that problem, and then you just thought, oh, the ash is gone. Right? What would be the first thing that would tell you that that problem has gone away? Most people find that a bit tricky, you know, in the 1st session because they're still at the bottom of the mountain.

Yeah.

So I wanna think about, oh, gosh. What would it mean? So it might be something that's usually something that they haven't got anymore. Like, well, that feeling of that feeling of pressure, it'll let it all have gone. And so that so it might be okay. So the the pressure, the pressure's gone. What will be there instead? And again, they've got to think about that. Wow. I'm actually a little bit more positive.

Oh, so the pressure's gone. You're being a bit more positive. What what would happen next? I feel like getting out of bed, and I'd spring out of bed. Sometimes they, like, think, yeah. They're like, perfect. I'm gonna do that. They don't feel that's quite possible yet. But I'm sick because, of course, they're starting to think about it there.

Yeah. I'll get out of bed. I'll spring out of bed. What will happen next? Like, you know, I'm going to this. Oh, well, yeah. What will happen next? Well, I actually feel like, having a shower. That won't be such a bother, you know, because sometimes people might find a shower difficult because they're really depressed. But what would happen if you you know, what would happen next? So in life, we definitely got a shower.

But I feel much brighter. And if you were being much brighter, what would you be doing next? I'd go for a walk. So, you know, it carries on until you're sort of ending up. You go as far as you kind of need to go, and then you're kind of ending up like, okay, so what might you see yourself doing to get yourself one step close as that wonderful goal of, whatever it is you might be saying that they've got through? So it might be that I'm going to, write a chapter of my book or something. I'm going I am gonna go for a walk tomorrow. So what's the step? So if I identify exactly what that step is, you know, what what do they actually need to do? Because we need we need to tell our brains exactly what we need to do in order to make it happen. So, okay, so I'm going for a walk. So what needs to happen? You know, I need to get my clothes out, and then let me fall or something like that.

You know? What is that they need to do? Okay. So what time are you gonna put your clothes out? Because you need to tell your brain, isn't it, for what you need to do? Oh, okay. What's on the deal? Well, put that with no. I'll go to bed at 10:30. I'll put the clothes up. Great. So they've got anyway, they've got their action. Right? You see your brain, but you're gonna go to bed.

I haven't put your clothes out. Boom. Right. Lovely. Well done. Let's gonna do that. We're gonna do insurance part of this section. So then you thought you thought I was never gonna get to that, but did you? You're right.

So, so let me get to the trance. And we want to see over there is my, my relaxing pouch. So then they can push the button back and lie back a bit if they want. Make it on speaker and warm. And just let my words just watch over them. Just go up into a nice little, you know, close my eyes just thinking about it now. NCH little, relaxed world where you're just not going to worry about anything. And while you're doing that, your brain is actually your subconscious mind is just working through what we just talked about.

Yeah. Next. Because you're quite, you're actually quite busy while you're in insurance. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And then you open your eyes at the end, and you feel so much better than you can be.

Lovely. Lovely. It sounds like poetry. It's your favorite. Yeah.

It is.

Yeah. So so if somebody wants to come and see you, do you work in person as well as online on your comfortable couch? I do. Yes. Where are you based?

I'm based, just outside Canterbury in the village called Margaret.

Yeah. Lovely. Lovely part of the world.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so if

you could give somebody a top tip if they're struggling with anxiety or worrying or something, what would a top tip be look like?

Certainly. Well, I start by thinking my top tips is, kind of more about thinking about therapy. So Got it. Okay. Keep an open mind about hypnotherapy because Yeah. It's it's not really that mysterious. And, I mean, I've told you what what a session looks like. And so, yeah, it's about kind of tapping into that potential that you've got.

But keep up your mind about potentials. When you're thinking about, so I want to get rid of this problem, whatever it is, so you kinda want to set quite clear goals about what it is you want to achieve. So because you might be yeah. Well, I want to feel less anxious, but you need to be clear about, well, what does less anxious actually look like? So how would you know that you were less anxious? You know, what would you be doing differently? Some people are pretty good at doing that, actually, once they come and say, NCH. They do that really quickly, actually. I'd say trust the process because if you've found the right therapist for you, you know, it's about that collaborative presence between you. But, yeah, because when it worked, it really works. You know, you you like the person.

It's easy to do the rapport. You get on. You trust them. If you trust them, you make good progress. Then you feel happy about your progress, then you make even more progress. But at the same time, you've gotta be quite patient. You know, things do take time this moment. You're at the bottom of the mountain, and you've got to get up to the top of the mountain.

I'd say practice relaxation techniques. So, I mean, obviously, as I've said or did I say, yes, I did talk about the relaxation downloads that I give people.

Okay. Yeah. And so you can put your website, and we'll put it on the link below so people can connect it. Yeah.

Yeah. So I've got a a relaxation download, and so that's the thing I asked people to do. Definitely listen for that because I've got Yeah. List of the deals. Mhmm. Sometimes people want to do other things as well. They they might want to do meditation or things kind of, breathing techniques with things or help things that help them to relax. It might be a hobby, you know, identifying those things that help you to relax.

And of course, when you're doing something nice and relaxing, you sometimes get into the nice little trance, but you just didn't know that. You know, maybe you like painting and you're just painting away, and you're being NCH and relaxed, and that's good. You know? We need that. Your help. What else would I say? Well, if you're having therapy, make sure that you attend it consistently because you need to get a bit of a run at it, really. Because if you are trying to change something, you're trying to change the way you think, you need you need to sort of get in the in the zone. In other words, give me different weeks. You know what I mean? And you sort of get out of the way of doing things.

And I also, I think, is being with the right therapist. If you feel that you're not with the right therapist, find someone that you connect with. I think it's finding the right therapist is as important as finding the right partner.

Yeah. That's right. You know, so it is fine. You know, I'm not right for everyone. Yeah. Why? You know? Yeah. You've gotta find the right person for you, and sometimes it's different people at different times as well. You know? It's when it's that wonderful combination of the right person, the right time, that's cool.

And if it's not, it's NCH fine. You're on the right person for you.

Exactly. Brilliant. Well, thank you ever so much. I'm I'm gonna wrap it up there. We'll put your links in the bio. So if people want to find you, they can. Thank you ever so much for sparing the time to talk. It's been lovely.

Thank you for having me. Thank you very much.