Welcome to DTC Pod, where we take you behind the wheel with the best founders and operators of consumer brands. You'll learn the ins and outs of business from setting up shop, hitting your first million, scaling past eight figures, and even navigating an exit. As founders ourselves, our goal is to help you learn from the best as you build. Visit us@dtcpod.com to sign up for our weekly newsletter, join our founder community and find additional resources from every episode. Dtcpod is brought to you by Trend, the creative solution for your brand. Go to trend. IO to access thousands of creators for content needs such as product photography, unboxing videos or even TikTok. And IG organic creative. Use the code Dtcpod ten for 10% off your next content purchase. As a D to C brand, you need real time financial visibility to save money and make better decisions. Waiting for books from slow and expensive bookkeepers that don't get ecommerce is slowing you down. Trusted by hundreds of brands, final Loop is a real time accounting service built by D to C founders. For D to C. Founders try final loop. Completely free, no credit card required. Just visit finalloop.com D to CPOD and get 14 days free and a two month PNL within 24 hours with all the ecom data and breakdowns you need to crush it. What's up, DTC Pod? Today we're joined by Scout Brusan, who is the CEO of Desoa. So, Scout, I'll let you kick us off. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself as well as what you guys are building at Desois.

Thank you. Excited to be on so Desois. I'll just give you the one liner there. It's a wine of nonalcoholic sparkling apparatiffs. So really meant to be something if you're feeling like a cocktail or a glass of wine, but you don't really want the alcohol. It's a sophisticated and delicious alternative. It was co founded by Katy Perry and Morgan McLachlan, who I had the pleasure to join full time right before we launched. But I had spent time, certainly in consumer packaged goods before joining DSWA. I had started my own brand, also kind of in the functional food and beverage space and had, prior to that, come out of the venture and consulting worlds. So was that a consumer fund, m 13, helping launch businesses, really from zero and scaling them to the kind of zero to one stage, and had previously, before that, kind of been more corporate at McKinsey. So have made my way over time, really getting to, I think, kind of the really bread and butter of what I enjoy, which is the early stage kind of crazy stuff for the crazy people. So that's what we've been in for the last 15 months since we launched D'swa, and we're having a lot of fun.

Awesome. And, yeah, I'm really excited to get into D'swa, how you guys launch, where you guys are at now, but would love to go back a little bit further. You said you have a background in consulting as well as having started your own brand. So why don't you just tell us a little bit more? What were you focused on in the consulting world and then tell us a little bit about the first brand you started before you found yourself in the CEO role at Diswa.

Yeah, so at McKinsey, I was very much a generalist, but I found myself drawn towards certainly consumer projects before I got there. I feel like I touched everything from as kind of mundane as semiconductors and learning what that world looks like as sexy as the ecommerce world that we're now in. Did everything from gosh like indirect procurement, cost cutting to strategy and growth. And I just got really excited about the spaces where you were touching that consumer experience. Also, funnily enough, I think I had a lot of interest in the entertainment space and had some client work that I did there. So I'd say for me, a lot of that period of time was just kind of the self development and coming out of it. I did my undergrad at MIT, which is very technical education and coming out of that world of, like, everything's black and white, hypothesis driven data grounded to this interesting world of business decisions that are made in ambiguity and knew that I wanted to do something that was even more entrepreneurial. Which is really how I ended up at M 13. And in the venture world after that. But kind of fast forwarding when I was coming in the kind of early days of, I would say operating and working on the concept of dough, which is a cookie dough enhanced with adaptogens. It was really a lot of passion for me around kind of, I would say better for you products and knowing that very similar ethos to just WA, but knowing that you want something that feels really indulgent in the moment, but you're pairing this inner and outer wisdom of okay, I want something that tastes really good, hits that sweet tooth, feels very satisfying, but is also going to make me feel physically well afterwards. And so that was very much the experience of Bootstrapped commercial kitchen, making it in your kitchen, like doing all of that hard labor, manual labor, before scaling it. And again, kind of just really got me excited. I think about those early days when you're finding product market fit and you're hearing what your first consumers have to say about a product and definitely got a little bit addicted. And I think that's what was so exciting to me after moving on from that. When I met Katie and Morgan and learned about what they were doing, I was like, okay, yeah, I really like this. Get the rocket ship ship off the ground and be a part of the earliest decisions that have the most impact.

So why don't you take us back to kind of the origin of Desoa as a company. Right. So clearly Katy is one of the preeminent talents. Everyone in the world knows who she is. She's launching her own brand. But why don't you take us a little bit back to not only the brand genesis, but how it all came together, how the team came together, how you got involved, the whole story behind that.

Yeah. So I'll start with Morgan's background. She's a master distiller and she's been creating products in the beverage alcohol space for most of her career. So she got really excited. Looking at the early days of non ALK and seeing, I think, two things simultaneously. One is I always look at the category kind of broken up, and non ALK beer is absolutely a leader and a driver of growth in the space. So she's looking at non ALK beer that's certainly speaking to kind of this male consumer and ready to drink experience. On the other end of the spectrum, you're seeing brands like Seed Lip and Liars and Ritual that are spirit proxies. Right. So it's meant to mimic the taste of alcohol and started thinking, like, what's the option that's ready to drink? So you don't have that additional education hurdle of how do I mix and make a cocktail at home? That also speaks to the female consumer. And I think really logically, your mind goes to that wine use case occasion. And when she first met Katie and they were introduced by a mutual friend, this was early 2020, they were both pregnant. So obviously in this life stage where pregnant for the first time, too. Soi huge careers about to become moms couldn't drink alcohol, knew that balance was going to be a really important part of their lives kind of coming out of it. And I would say as a tangent for Katie, but wellness has been something that's really important to her. She's involved, very involved with brags apple cider vinegar. She's made investments in the space. She talks about it a lot in terms of kind of what it looks like to be where she is in her music career and making that all work. So got super excited about the space and they ultimately came up with this concept. Before Daswa had a name or a brand or formula that was going to be very complex, very nuanced, original liquid. So as opposed to trying to taste exactly like a wine, wanted to really stand on its own and is really a pair of teeth inspired in its flavor profile. So in our first three SKUs, it's a varying degree, but a lot of kind of the traditional bitter notes of an apparatif that really show up. So they hit it off right away, started working on the business, worked on it for the better part of 18 months before I came into the picture. And at that point, they had a formula, they had a brand, they had supply chain set up, website work done, all of really the building blocks. And there was admittedly, some kind of pandemic supply chain craziness that had had delayed the launch for some time. But I think looking back and everything's, 2020, in hindsight, it was the perfect time for us to launch because I ratted off names of some other brands that have come before us. But I think there had been a lot of just momentum building and building and building. And it was a great time for this team and this product to launch. So they were really looking for someone to come in, kind of be full time, dedicated to and quarterbacking the brand. And so I came on initially as general manager in the fall of 2021. We launched in January 2022. I moved into the CEO role last summer. And I'm sure we'll talk a lot about kind of like what our focus has been on the business. But really the mission for Desois here is about this celebratory drink that we've created. And sharing this message, I think about it's about optionality, it's about inclusivity. It's about having something on the table for whether you're taking the night off from drinking or you're taking three months off from drinking. There just should be something for everybody there.

Yeah, I think there's soi much to talk about here. One of the first things I want to talk about just from a cultural sort of perspective, because I know nonalcoholic as a category is like, blowing up. So your guys'timing is obviously awesome, but what can you just tell us about the category as a whole? What gets you guys excited about it? Not just because it's a product that you guys might love yourself, but in terms of the broader themes about what non ALK represents and where this is going. What are some of the undercurrents in society that are leading us here?

Health and wellness. A million percent. Health and wellness. I mean, that's something right, that we've seen is not a fad. It is a lasting trend that is driving consumer behavior and has been for some time. And I always look at alcohol, let's call it or the alcohol alternative space, as this is the last unturned stone, right? Our consumers have they've gone to almond milk and then to oat milk and then back to Terry milk. They're looking at all of these decisions across the board of things that they're consuming or that they're buying, and they're saying, what is the better option? And so when you look at people talk a lot about, at least in my bubble, right, that Gen Z is a generation that just drinks so differently than even millennials or our parents generations. But I'd say millennials and Gen Z are driving this trend of people just drinking less and less every year. And you've got, I think the biggest moment is dry January. And that's a time of year when, of course, people are really focused. Again, health and wellness kind of reset, looking at this whole idea of sober curiosity, which is, I think, also redefining this kind of taboo conversation around not drinking. And like, what does it mean to be capital S sober? It's not like that anymore. And I think that will continue to evolve as well. So a lot of really exciting, I think, just open, vulnerable conversations that are happening around. Again, I feel like I'm still going through this all the time. What's my relationship with alcohol? Am I drinking? I mean, certainly during the pandemic, right? It's like, am I drinking all the time because it's the marker at the end of my day or because I don't have other things to do or because I actually want to have this glass of wine? And so I think there's a lot of really exciting, just conversational, even at times vilification of alcohol, which, again, I believe there's a place here, but that's happening. I mean, there's a big Andrew Huberman podcast that came out not so long ago that caught people's attention, and Mark Andreessen included that in his Substac and his relationship with alcohol. So just a lot of really prominent conversations happening cross generationally about the consumption of alcohol and the role that it plays day to day in our lives.

Yeah, I think there's two interesting points there. One is, I think just as a trend that I'm sort of seeing just the way in which people also engage with their work, right? Everyone's constantly plugged in. You kind of have to be on all the time. Whereas back 2030 years ago, without mobile, without computer, everywhere you go like, okay, you go out and drink and then you go to the office the next day. And that's that, right? But having to be on kind of all the time from a cognitive performance point of view, I think definitely impacts it. It's something I see with myself. I drink way less than I ever did just because I can't afford to be slow in the morning or even in the evening. Soi think that's one trend. And then also there was this kind of interesting dichotomy where, like you were saying, health and wellness is such a trend, everyone are going to such extreme lengths to be health conscious, but then are like, okay, I've done all this, and then let me just go binge drinking a bunch of alcohol. It just doesn't line up. So I think at a certain point that domino starts to fall as well, where it doesn't necessarily mean alcohol is going to be eliminated by any means. It just means people are going to be more thoughtful about how and where they choose to drink. Right? So I think that's a really cool trend to be able to tap into and ride.

I think one note on that. No, I think what's been interesting to me, if you look at kind of the biohacker landscape and the growth of brands like Whoop and Aura Ring that are giving you access to data in a way that you didn't have it before. I think Athletic Brewing has a partnership with I believe it's with Whoop where they're collecting sleep data. And I think that's been a big thing to your point of kind of productivity and how you think about how do I perform at my utmost capacity on a day to day basis. People are just understanding that that one drink can impact your sleep super significantly. Right. And even if you don't wake up the next day feeling hungover, there's ultimately an impact on how you're resting and recovering in those 8 hours, hopefully between when you went to bed and woke up.

Yeah, absolutely. And you bring up a good point with the whole fitness tracker movement involved so people can actually see it. So now it's not just I feel a certain way, it's like I quantifiably am a certain way, which definitely is a big marker for it. But this kind of takes me into my next question, which goes more to brand genesis and how you guys started to build it and how you pull it off. So clearly there's an interest there. You've got a team with people who are interested in the ability to pull it off. You guys kind of come up with a recipe. But when you're building a brand with someone as big as Katy Perry, what goes into it? Right. Is it different than when you were working on your own brand for yourself or what are the differences? What did you have to prepare for from a launch perspective? How involved was Katie in the process? Why don't you just talk us through that stage of the brand?

Yeah, and I think just to kind of caveat it, a lot of that was right before I joined, so I certainly got the spark notes and I've seen what it's looked like since. But at the highest level, I'd say Katie was very high touch. And I think that I've seen the results of that because this is her baby the same way that's Morgan's baby, right. Or any other co founder's brainchild, essentially. So she was involved. As small as a decision as how much black pepper flavor is there in purple loon, which is one of our three current flavors to what are the names of the SKUs and how does it show up on the packaging. And so I think just having a lot of that role in the brand development process which was happening kind of in house at the time and being very high touch meant that what was ultimately launching in those few months when I was working on that go to market strategy with the team was like that was something that she has a really close affiliation and tie to. And so then everything that comes out after that, if you think about the assets that we use to do our brand storytelling. If you think about the content that we're putting out on social media or on TikTok or on Instagram right. That all kind of rolls up to this brand ethos, which for us is taking the definition of an apparatif, which traditionally is a bittersweet beverage right. That's opening you up to a meal is like no Dustois is way more about opening you up to all of life's experiences and kind of the beauty of what restraint looks like here is what's gained in the absence of it. And that's really our tagline, which, again, Katie was involved in selecting was pleasure with restraint. Right. This idea of kind of what's gained here. So I'd say that two kind of concluding thoughts would be when you're building with somebody like Katie, it's been really important to us along the way that D'sua is its own brand. It's a brand that resonates with Katie and her personal values, whether that's celebration and fun, if it's empowerment, if it's wellness, but that it also stands on its own because at the end of the day, it is DA SWA. Right. And it needs to be something that kind of lives and breeze. And so there's always going to be those integration of Katie's audience and her platform that come into our different marketing and creative kind of activation of it, but there's also going to be just wall only things that we're doing.

Absolutely. And why don't we talk a little bit through the actual, the first chapter of the company call it right. And what it takes to actually execute and launch when you're working with a talent as big as Katie. So I think the fact that she's able to get all the way into the weeds and have her fingerprints across the brand, I think it's really important and makes a huge difference. Right. Because you can clearly tell a brand that's just like a facade where someone's not really involved and someone's actually where you've got a personality who's a major part of the team, but with her distribution and everyone knows who she is. What doors did that open and how did you guys as a company, how were you able to deliver and fulfill on it? Right. And I think one thing I'd love to get some clarity on where it sounds like a great problem to have, but when you're doing a launch like that, all of a sudden, the scale from the beginning is so much bigger than a lot of early brands that might just be able to kind of go through a couple of different product cycles. One PO test with a couple of close friends and family, get initial customer feedback, but when you're launching a brand with Katy Perry, automatically boom, it's out there and you've got to be ready for that sort of scale. So what kind of preparations went into that? How did you guys prepare? How did you respond to it and just walk us through that a little bit.

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I think having been through two different versions of this, the nature of MVP looks really different, right? And so I always say 2022, and certainly the beginning of 2022 for us and our focus on D to C was defined product market fit. And that's really important. I think that's what obviously having that direct relationship with your customers enables you to do. But MVP was still full scale production, right? It was like that first production run that we did was it was at scale. It wasn't a pilot run. It wasn't some small run in somebody's kitchen. And so I think that the bar that we've just had to have as still an early stage startup has been so high that there's been higher cost to that, essentially higher expectations, higher costs, but also kind of higher ROI. And so you asked at the beginning, what are some doors that have been open? I mean, so many, right? Like, this is jet fuel for a one year old company. And I'll start with what did it look like even preparing for that launch? I mean, we launched from a PR standpoint with an exclusive interview with Vogue that doesn't happen for a lot of brand new CPG brands. And so I think just the splash that we were able to make from day one was significant enough that then you think about the follow through and we had sales at Drink to Swallow email address. That funnily enough, we didn't have a head of sales and nobody was messaging initially. And then I go into that email a few weeks after launch, and I'm like, holy shit, we have hundreds of inbound emails coming through. And it was everything from retail account names that are loved and known by many to small non ALK liquor shops that are popping up across the country. And so I think just it's given us kind of an awareness from day one. And not to say that most people know what the SWA is, right? Like, we're still chipping away at that. But I think the awareness kind of relative to a peer set that I think just accelerates any growth that we can achieve. And then I think the second thing there is just education is such an important part of any new category building. And having a platform like Katie's, certainly if you look at our Instagram followers, it's nearly 200 million. There's a level of education that we have access to and kind of conversation that we have access to through that. And that's been an important kind of thesis for Katie and Morgan since day one. Is that that's a role that she.

Can play and how does she do that? Like you're saying, new category education is really important. Yes, I have a brand. But in her kind of not necessarily day to day, but how does she kind of bring desoa into her cadence of content creation or whatever it is, as we said today.

Yeah, I think content creation is the right word, right? Because I think it's show don't tell. A good example this would be we haven't rolled these assets out, but we just did a big shoot in the last month and the conversation that myself and our head of brand marketing were having with Katie beforehand was like, what's the goal of the shoot? And we all agreed and certainly Katie was a key voice here of this needs to be the wear and the use case and the show, right? Like me in my kitchen, it needs to be me unwinding and having like a mom moment at the end of the day, we've definitely gotten even kind of more UGC style content where Katie's drinking her favorite flavor purpleoon at the end of a show or before she gets on stage. And so I think it's just there's the Katie and the music Katie, right. Which is that all glammed up, ready to go. But then there's also just that I'm in my kitchen and I'm making dinner, like I said, kind of having that mom moment with her daughter. So I'd say we're always thinking about how we can continue to bring that to life and how she shows up at if it's going to be just like talking about the flavors or the pairings that you can do with the SWA, right? Like there's little tidbits that you can talk to, but a lot of it's just going to be imagery and kind of bringing that into the everyday.

Awesome. And now I want to get into some more of the business side of things, right? So putting Katie and the celebrity factor aside, how are you thinking about growing the business today? Like, what are some of the channels you're focused on? If you could give us kind of an overview of how you think about maybe D to C versus retail. Yeah, why don't we start there and then we can go into some other fun stuff.

Well, in beverage, we all love the word omnichannel and omnichannel growth. I think both channels are so important to not again, I just kind of feel like a broken record here, but like this idea of new category, new category building. And we were just chatting with one of our distributors who was like, the presence on Instagram has been amazing. There's so much stuff happening, right? It's like, yeah, that stuff is really important. Right. Because it's not only going to help benefit the D to C. Bottom line if Influencer is posting about it and then somebody's going and using their link to purchase but it's also going to help our accounts like an airwon or a foxtrot or a total wine or a BevMo. And people are going in and they're like, oh, yeah, I have seen that person that I follow post about this or I have seen that show up on my TikTok For You page. So I'd say that really D to C in the early days helped us gain a deep understanding of who our consumer is, how they're drinking the product, what they like or don't like about our three flavors, which are super unique and kind of each to their own. And then, as we now are, I would say, like in this kind of flywheel momentum building stage, I think wholesale has become more and more important because of how consumers ultimately just shop this product, right? They shop beverage in store. And so I'd say we're doing, and have been doing a lot of the work of just getting doors, right? Like getting doors open, which we talk a lot about education. But education is not just for the consumer. Education is also for the distributor, for the retail buyer. So doing that in our key markets. So that ultimately our ideal scenario here, is that every account you can think of has a four foot set of non alcoholic beverages. And it can be everything from, again, like a D'sois to a ritual or a liar showing up on that shelf. So really leveraging D to C to help kind of capture some of that customer base in store, as we're really proving out to retailers, as, again, many early stage GPG brands are doing, they're proving themselves out, but we're also proving out the category.

So why don't you tell us a little bit about the category in the sense that, like you were saying, if you're selling tequila, for example, there's like a defined shelf space for tequila and you know who you're competing with. What does that look like when you're trying to get into retail, right? Do retailers have specific shelf space set aside for non ALK? Where do you guys sit? Are you in the soda section? Are you in the next to the alcohol section? In the mixer section? Where do you guys show up physically in retail?

It totally depends. And it's a conversation we're having with everybody right now. So I'll give you the range. Right. I think Airwan is a good example where we've got our single cans and our four packs of cans merchandised in their cold case really close to their functional set. That's a great place because there's a ton of visibility. But there's also this differentiation that we're also trying to create between a Daswa and a functional soda because they are just very different from a taste and ultimately kind of product positioning. So I'd say in general, we're really looking to be in that wine and spirit set. And those are if I had to kind of draw a circle around it, I'd say the majority of the folks that we work with are in that sphere, whether it's distributors or retail buyers. Other exceptions to that, like, we've seen wellness buyers at accounts be really excited about this category. We've seen. Accounts that are extremely wellness focused. Come look at this category, we wouldn't have expected it. And so I think generally we try to be very flexible and just know that a foot in the door is an amazing place to start and that this is all going to happen over time. So I'd say that today, in most places, the set's not there yet, but that those conversations are actively happening. And I think what we're going to see certainly later this year and definitely by next year, those really starting to emerge.

What other creative places do you look for for distribution, right? Like, are you guys doing anything with restaurants, with events? How do you get your product out there in front of people?

Liquid to Lips is so important and I'm glad you brought it up. I'd say building in that on premise. So, restaurant, bar, hotel occasion is an amazing way to build a brand awareness, to build trial and discovery and help kind of penetrate that marketing rule of seven, right, where somebody's seeing something seven times before they purchase it is also transparently, a very expensive and tedious way to build a brand. And seed lip is usually if I'm going to see a brand on a menu, that's usually the brand that I see. And if you think about their history, I mean, Diageo acquired seedlip in 2019 and has plugged them, I'm sure, into their distribution network. And so that's why we're seeing in a lot of menus. So definitely part of the strategy. It's just slow going. And so then I think the other place that we really focus, where we have retail accounts starting to open up more and more, would be the events and the Liquid to Lips and the demoing in stores. So I think these are all really great touch points just to build a ton of awareness around it. And I think as our brand evolves as well, we really are parting with our distributors to help capture a lot of those restaurants, bars and hotels. But it is cost intensive and resource intensive for a seed stage business.

Yeah, absolutely. So how do you decide where and how and which ones to do? Because I think that's a really good point, right? And I've talked to a bunch of other beverage founders as well, who they want to get their product in front of everyone. And it's like, I remember even when I was in college, red Bull would show up, they'd literally be throwing these things out everywhere. They even dropped an entire pallet, like when they were trying to launch a new drink in the middle of the yard and everyone would go grab them. But that stuff, it has a cost, right? It has a cost to execute, it has a cost on product. And for a seed stage business that can't just go away, drowning the world with their beverage, how do you think about where to show up at your stage. And maybe if you could talk about any events or any things that you guys have done in the past that have been successful or maybe that haven't been so successful, it would be cool to hear about.

Yeah, I love the Red Bull example too, because I would say there's two big, just like super broad strokes things you need to think about. One is who is my consumer? So if they're going after college aged kid male, right? Great. Yeah. Drop it on canvas, drop it in front of a fraternity house and let the product speak for itself. I think second is just geography, right? So if you think about for us, if we're most of our consumers that we're speaking to are millennial women, kind of generally, of course it bleeds on either end. But okay, if New York is a key market for us, what's the right activation? Who's the right partner to be part of? I'd say that the other thing worth considering here, and this tends to be true of let's call it brand marketing as a large bucket, is that you just can't measure the impact. I think there's a lot of tools and technologies out there that whether it's out of home that are advancing it, if it's QR codes. I've had multiple of these conversations in those last several months, and I think that's extremely beneficial. But I also think that our team is investing in putting product, putting a brand ambassador at events and activations, not because we can measure the return, but because we know that that's honestly a tried and true strategy. Tried and true strategy to get your product to people that will ultimately be your target consumer in a target market where they can go find it or see it on shelf. So we've done things. I mean, I think right now we really prioritize where we have strong relationships. So I think about one of our investors reached out recently because they're going to host an opening for one of their they have a store and they're hosting an opening for a store. And I'm like, I love this because here's somebody who already is an ambassador of the brand and is going to treat this really well. I also really love bringing anytime I'm invited to an event in La that's like founder, CPG, investor focused community, I'm always asking to bring that product with me to sample with people. And so I think just kind of, I'd say starting with places where you have really strong people to kind of support how your brand shows up. Because your example, Red Bull, like dropping in front of the fraternity house, there's just added risk there of whose hands is this going to land in? And I'd say early days kind of presentation of product. And again, that kind of education component about it is really, really important.

No, absolutely. And just digging in there a little bit. So you said you guys would have kind of like brand representatives to be able to show up and represent the brand. So how do you guys manage that? Who qualifies for you guys as someone who's like a brand rep? How many how do you guys think about that and being able to show up physically?

Yeah, I'd say probably like 80% of the time right now. It's physically someone from our team if it's in La. So again, kind of like early stage or seven full time people and it's going to be me or it's going to be Haley who leads brand or Sammy who leads Ecom actually showing up at an event. And then I think the other people that we've had a lot of luck with is actually starting with folks that kind of specialize in demoing. So just to give you a great example, but like our head of sales was doing a demo himself at an Airwan, saw another demo person at the table next to him absolutely crushing the sales for the brand that he was repping. And Ryan just goes over to him and start talking to him and he's like, oh, do you want to do to Swan? This guy is just a monster when it comes to selling through anything. And so now we've gone to him and he's gone and done events for us and he's not only doing the demos at Total Wine and Erwan, but he's repping it at there was like an Expo West party that he was representing the brand. So I think just finding people that really know how to sell and represent your brand are often the best candidates and it ends up being kind of patchwork. But for us, I think doing that before we go to big agency where things are a little bit more impersonal, we've just found this to be more effective and I think as we grow and it becomes more relevant, I see adding that way as well where you can find just even members from our community, right? Like if it's putting out feelers on Instagram or it's looking at kind of like customer base in New York and who are our subscribers? Are there people here sending out if you want to rep our brand, here's how you can be a part of it. So I think we'll continue to be scrappy there and just how we think about the best brand ambassadors.

Another thing that you just mentioned about how it's your actual internal team doing everything, I think that's really important, especially for a brand like this. Because when you're trying to show up personally as a brand and you're trying to grow and get all those learnings, I think traditionally a lot of celebrity lines, one, the talent themselves wasn't as involved in the process, right? And then two, like you were saying, you would layer in agency and all these other kind of factors on top of it and then it becomes a really impersonal experience. So I think what I'm hearing from how you guys are approaching this is not only do you have a talent that's actually involved in the brand, but then you actually have a team who's running that and is actually there on the front lines of the business as well. And that makes a really big difference as you build out a business. Like, you're saying you guys are prepared to scale, you're ready to do that, but you're not willing to sacrifice all the learnings and going through building a business like a real kind of sustainable way. So off that, I'd love to kind of talk a little bit more about what your role is now, like, what you really focus on, what your day to day is like, yet what keeps you up at night as you think about the business and what some of the exciting areas and projects that you've been working on.

Oh, my God, that was like six questions in one. Okay, what my role is. Gosh, it really changes all the time based on what the business needs. I would say that first and foremost, when I think about kind of a unique areas that I focus on, investor relations and fundraising is a major one. And so if we're fundraising, then that's where I try to put as much of my attention as I can because it is the one thing that I'm doing that nobody else on the team is going to do. So I think there's a little bit of that and then outside of it, it's kind of like I think about strategy as another big bucket. And ultimately what matters here is that I'm building Daswa in the way that reaps the most potential in this current environment. And I think that's really important to say because there's so much conversation. I just got to multiple quarterly kind of update emails from BC firms recently talking about how crazy the last quarter has been. And honestly, I think the quarter before that was even crazier. It's like the world right now is kind of in this shift in the economy. Nobody knows what's happening and what it's going to mean. And so making sure that ultimately D'suis is going to get multiple bikes at the Apple right at the end of the day is really, really important. And then I feel super fortunate that I've got a team covering, let's call it kind of all key functional bases for Dyswa. And so a lot of my day to day is where can I add the most value? So right now we're gearing up for some exciting things coming this summer. And I spend a lot of my time with the marketing team thinking through what that go to market looks like. I spent a lot of time with our head of sales and our chief operating officer thinking about what our wholesale build looks like and how do we move the needle on our existing accounts and on new accounts, spent a ton of time thinking about, okay, places that we started our conversation talking about Katie. But it's like, where are the ways for me, not just with Katie, but any of our investors or our board, how can we leverage them to really add value as we're trying to achieve all of our ambitious goals? So I'd say it's a little bit of anywhere and a lot of everywhere. And the thing that I've learned the most has been when I'm fully stepping in and owning something and owning a work stream. Like, for instance, we had kind of transition period and brand marketing and I was running brand marketing and it's kind of like, okay, I can't run this 100% by myself and deliver quality results on all the other things that I need to. And so solving for hiring somebody is not always the answer, but how am I going to solve this between something in house or something outsourced so that I can focus kind of at a higher level on these things and roll up my sleeves when I absolutely need to. So it's a little bit of just, I think structurally setting yourself up as a CEO to be able to weigh in again on like I see it kind of like strategy people and this investor fundraising bucket.

No, absolutely. And one thing you mentioned about the current climate and how investors are thinking about everything, how have you seen it affect the beverage space? Right? Is this something that you guys are sheltered from? Because you're in a massively growing category and you have Katy Perry and this amazing team behind you, so you feel a bit sheltered. Do you feel it as well? What are you just seeing from the general landscape around beverage?

Definitely not sheltered. I think everybody is being impacted different levels, perhaps at different stages, but I would say it has shifted from let's call it focus on hypergrowth to questions like when are you projecting profitability? Right? And I think different categories have a different time to get profitable. And I think beverage tends to be competitive, it tends to be expensive, right? Because some of the overhead that we were talking about before. So I think there's just a different kind of scrappiness and leanness that we've shifted our strategy as we think about growing. And honestly, a lot of it kind of comes back to the conversation we were having about on premise. Because what you can do as a beverage alcohol brand is you can hire a bunch of salespeople to be feet on the street opening up those types of onesie, twosie accounts up and down with your distributor. But frankly, those people don't pay for themselves. And so you're investing in that growth so that it pays off down the road. I think brands just can't do that as much anymore. So you're looking for the bigger bets. You're looking for kind of like the places where you can get a lot more volume sold a lot faster and you're trusting in more kind of let's call it if it's commission model focused or if it's more brokerage. These are just very tactical things that we're doing. So I think ultimately the conversation has just shifted a lot towards let's call it efficient, sustainable growth. And what ultimately to make sure that you're thinking about margin burn, you're thinking about growth kind of in the context of getting to break even or profitability.

What's the biggest lesson you've had so far in terms of wearing the CEO hat at Disois? What have you learned that's really stuck with you?

That is such a good question. I think that I've spent a lot of time thinking about leadership style and how do I authentically lead as Scout, but also kind of step up as I think this is the opportunity that I've been given. And I've learned that with your employees, you have to be real. You can't always be a cheerleader, you can't be the everything's great and smile through it. I think you have to be real with them. You have to treat people like adults and you have to say, this is what's going on. Again, if it's macro things going on in the environment, or if it's something like Silicon Valley Bank, right. Like, you've got to be real with people with what's going on and show them that this is how you're going to get through it, but letting in some of that realness. So I think I've seen just such different leadership styles throughout my career of being sheltered and having someone who kind of takes all the stress of what's going on and just shoves it in a corner. And I think you don't want to cause stress, but I think you need to be totally honest and transparent with people about what's happening and then what your plan is to get through it. Because I also see that as a learning opportunity and kind of a trust building exercise that happens in the process.

Yeah, 100%. I think that's something that I've found as well. It's like rather than just trying to hide information and sugarcoat things, a lot of times the best way to communicate, especially with a team, is just be open and transparent. And if you can bring that attitude, then people will buy into that because they get it right. Everything isn't always like a perfect rocket ship. Sometimes there's great days, sometimes there's not great days. But being able to be honest with yourself and your team I always find is really important for anyone, but especially in a startup. And the next question I'd have is what are you most excited for? What's the area of the business or what is your core focus? If you just had one thing that you're really thinking about right now for the rest of 2023 for you and Desois, what is it?

It is more DA SWA more places. I think that's the name of the game is get more doors open and get more visibility for this brand. And I think that all of the work that we're ultimately doing to kind of back that up is all the soft stuff, right? Of the soft, but really important stuff, don't get me wrong. But the storytelling and the brand building and getting product in people's hand and liquid to lips and getting Katie out, there kind of the forefront of it. But at the end of the day, we need people to be able to buy just WA in more places. And so I'm really excited about how much, like, we talked about the beginning of our conversation, but just how much organic growth that there is to really seize here for all the brands in the non alcoholic adult beverage space. And so I think just being able to participate in that and be a leader in that is a really exciting opportunity that, when I think about my career, does not come around all that often. So I'm relishing every moment and a lot of it is really freaking hard, as you called out. But I think just kind of stopping to celebrate what we're doing and the opportunities that we have makes it very rewarding.

Absolutely. And as we wrap up here, Scout, where can our listeners find you as well as D'sua?

Definitely our website, Drinkdesoa.com or on Instagram drinkdesoir. I mean, you can find me on LinkedIn or on Instagram, Scoutperson, but appreciate everyone taking the time to listen and you having me on for this conversation.

Awesome. Thanks so much. We really enjoyed it. Can't wait to see you guys grow this year and we'll have to have you guys back again soon. Thanks for tuning in and we hope you enjoyed this episode of DTC Pod. If you enjoyed the show, we'd love your support. A rating and review would go a long way as we continue to host the best builders in DTC and beyond. Follow and subscribe to the show and make sure to check out our show notes where you can find our socials and weekly newsletter. Visit us on Dtcpod.com to join our founder community and access resources from every episode. We'll see you on the next Pod.