Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world where everyone not only belongs but thrives? You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo and share stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect and inspire action together. Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to share your insights or to join me on the show. So adjust your earbuds and settle in.
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The Inclusion Bites Podcast
Talking Not Telling
Speaker
Joanne Lockwood
Speaker
Katie Allen
00:00 Conversations on inclusion and belonging with Joanne. 04:20 Leaders must embrace uncomfortable conversations for inclusivity.
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Highlights
“Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world where everyone not only belongs but thrives?”
“Then you say, okay, how do you feel about having a conversation about racism? Nope, nobody wants to have that conversation. All of a sudden the psychological safety is not there.”
“If I learn that a word or a phrase has negative connotations is problematic, it doesn't cost me anything to modify my language, learn something new.”
“We can use figuratively and literally interchangeably because literally sometimes means figuratively now.”
“People exist all around you. Why would we not engage?”
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Full transcript
It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bytes. And today is episode 137 with the title Talking, Not Telling. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Katie Allen. Katie is a specialist confidence coach and inclusion consultant. And when I asked Katie to describe her superpower, she said she loves rummaging around in grey ambiguity that everybody else hates. Hello, Katie. Welcome to the show.
Hello. Thank you for having me along. This is amazing.
Absolute pleasure. And I know if you're listening here today, you don't know this, but we've just spent an hour in the green room chatting away. We've. We've had a fantastic conversation and I almost wish we'd recorded some of it, but we've still got loads more to talk about.
I'm sure there'll always be things to talk about. Yeah.
Yeah, for sure. So, Katie talking, not telling. Tell me more.
Absolutely. This. It's become one of my almost like, lifeblood conversations now, especially in the work of Inclusion, because it's one of those things. Things that I find whenever I speak to people about the work that I do, everyone gets that sheepish little look. Don't. Then they're like, oh, are you. Are you going to come and tell me all the things I'm getting wrong and all the ways I need to be better? And that's just not my style. I would much rather have conversations.
It's like, this, isn't it? I just want to sit down with people. I want to talk to them and understand, like, what's going on for you? How do you see the world? This is how I see the world. And how can we grow together? So it's really become, like, the heart of everything I do. I just want to talk to people and not. And not be telling everybody what they're getting wrong and start a conversation that inspires some action.
Yeah, I, I really resonate with that. You know this. You walk into a room sometimes as an EDI dei, whatever specialist you want to call us, and people go, oh, no, it's the inclusion police. We can't. What we're saying, we can't tell any jokes. We gotta. We gotta do this. And it's like, no, no, I'm a human being.
I laughed, I pass wind. I'm a human being. I just want the output to be positive for people and not at someone else's expense. And that's what we're trying. That's what we're saying really is exactly. Somebody else shouldn't be less than, because you are more than.
Absolutely that. And then I often find one of the barriers to being able to have those conversations comes through when people aren't really sure about what they can and can't say. So then no one says anything at all. And then. And then nobody really gets the opportunity and, you know, rummage you around in the grey areas of ambiguity, right, to just dump all of the stuff that's going on in our brains out on the floor and just pick through it so we can say, okay, I know that you see the world this way, but have you thought about, if you were someone else, it could feel like this. And people have that moment of like, oh, I didn't realise that. I didn't. I didn't see it that way.
And, and just making that space for people to just, yeah, rummage around in all of that crap that we all bring with ourselves so that we can just make better, better conversations and have better interactions.
So why do people get stuck in this ambiguity? How do they get themselves into this vortex of confusion then.
Yeah, it's a really good question because I don't think that it's the same for everybody, but certainly in the work that I do with leaders, it comes from this place of our own frames of reference that we spend. We spend so much time kind of, you know, surrounding ourselves with people who are like us, you know, because we see the world the same way and we have similar experiences and maybe we've got the same hobbies and we gravitate naturally as humans to people that are like us, and we don't get the opportunity to understand difference, to understand people that have got different frames of reference or maybe have different experiences or opinions. And it's interesting that when, when you speak to leadership teams, we talk about psychological safety, right? And if you want to have A conversation about something business, about the sales forecast or about this, then, you know, it's really easy to create a space where we can speak up and challenge. Then you say, okay, how do you feel about having a conversation about racism? Nope, nobody wants to have that conversation. All of a sudden the psychological safety is not there. And for me, that's. That's super interesting because how can you, as a leader implement your strategy when it comes to inclusion if as a team, you aren't prepared to have those icky conversations that make you feel nervous and a bit, you know, a bit afraid? So if you're not willing to step out of your comfort zone and have that conversation, how can you put actions in place and expect the rest of your organisation to do it? So again, for me, it's about those frames of reference, bringing it back in and making sure you can have that informed conversation.
Are people worried about getting it wrong or they're just worried about being wrong?
Oh, good question. One or both. Right. Because certainly what. What I see is some people are very wedded, aren't they, to the idea of that, the fact that there is a right and wrong. Right. And actually, nine times out of 10, there's no such thing as kind of right and wrong. It's just opinions and feelings and experiences and we get so hung up on the fact that we have to be right because it makes us a good person.
I'm doing air quotes for people listening. Like, it makes us this good person and we get so held to this label of local. I'm a good person and I don't want to say that thing because if someone judges me, then I'm getting. I'm going to get cancelled and that'll make me a bad person. And it's really unhelpful because actually we're all. We're all just ordinary. We're all imperfect human people and we are going to get things wrong. Does that make us bad? No, it just makes us human.
So I find that such an interesting thing. But, yeah, the difference between. Yeah, being wrong and saying the wrong thing, I think we. We tie those two concepts together, don't we? As if they are the same thing. And actually, I don't know that they are. I think we can. We can make mistakes, we can be wrong and it can be okay. Like, it's fine.
I've had people try and defend their beliefs and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with their beliefs, but they form this. They hide behind what we call good intent. I meant well, but they often don't understand the impact of their opinions, their judgement, wherever it may be.
Yeah, I wholeheartedly see that too. And I agree with you that there is a difference between intention and impact, for sure. And it doesn't mean that you can't have your opinions, it doesn't mean, you know they're yours. You, you live the life that you want to live. However, the minute anything inside your brain becomes a behaviour, it has the capacity and capability to influence and harm someone else. And you are accountable for that. Like, that's on you. You get to make a decision as to whether that's a way that you want to interact with the world or not.
And you have to understand that you might approach something with the best of intentions. And I think we, you know, often we can have that analogy of like a broken arm, can't we? If you, if you bump into somebody and they end up with a broken arm, like, you may not have had the intention to bump into them, but you did. And, you know, the fact that you didn't intend to harm them doesn't make their arm any less broken. Like, it's still the outcome. So it's just about understanding those two things can exist at the same time. So you can have good intentions and you can cause harm and, you know, it's what you then do with it going forward. Will you intentionally then continue within the world breaking people's arms and saying things that are harmful, or will you learn from the fact that that thing happened and you're like, actually, I'm going to do something differently as a result of that experience.
I think that's the important thing is when we are being accountable for that impact, it's what do we do with it, isn't it? That's the critical thing there. And I think what? Well, it costs us nothing to change. You know, if I learn that a word or a phrase has negative connotations is problematic, it doesn't cost me anything to modify my language, learn something new. But too many people go, it's just so difficult. You can't say anything these days. Oh, come on, it's just a snowflake. Yeah, it's. We have these big debates about whether something is racist or not racist.
And if someone says to me, well, that's racist or has a racist connotations or colonialism or whatever it may be, I won't argue about it, Go, really, come on, it's not. I've googled it. I've looked in the dictionary and it says quite clearly on page two, it's not racist. And then we're not getting another thesaurus out or another this out or another this, and trying to prove we're right, that I'm not racist, rather than saying, oh, I never realised the impact of that. You're right. Let me, let me look into that. But for now, I'm going to park that and not use that phrase ever again because it doesn't cost me anything. I've just learned, and I remember there's a particular word used in the song the Mighty Quinn where they talk about the Eskimo and it was played on Radio 2 and I tweeted Radio 2 saying, you do realise that that song you just played on the radio has the word Eskimo in it, which is deemed offensive by many people.
I never heard it played on there again. I don't know if they took what I said, but, yeah, if you learn that that word is offensive to many or is problematic, use a different word, avoid it completely. It cost you nothing.
Absolutely, absolutely. I can completely agree. And it's interesting in that we haven't. It's a choice, it's a conscious choice to use the language that we use. And again, I certainly know in having conversations with people, if you, if you talk to anyone who puts together a sales tender and you say, do you know what? If you use the word investment instead of cost, that you're more likely to get a positive outcome and people go, oh, that's. That's good, we'll do that. Absolutely. Because it's got benefit for you.
So you can change your language. Absolutely. When you think it makes sense and you can see the benefit for you. So if somebody else said, actually, you know, using this word instead of that word has benefit for me, or, you know, is. Is better than something else, why can't we just accept that? Like, okay, sure, that's what you're telling me. I'll believe that. I'll believe that to be true because we have no problem believing it elsewhere.
And. But language is so ingrained in our everyday conversations, in our, in our heads. We become very familiar with the way we speak and we, we often use the same phrases and, and, and base words often. And there's a lot of it is based on, on colonialism, racism, life is on ableism. A lot. The words we use, you know, we throw in words like, I'm a bit OCD at the moment. You know, no one's a bit ocd. It's a, it's a clinical diagnosis.
I feel a bit crazy right now. All these kind of things. And we're using this word in everyday language without truly understanding how that can impact others. And that's, that's the challenge we've got to overcome, isn't it? Being open enough to reflect on our choice of language and how we can improve that?
Yeah, totally. And, and again that comes back to frames of reference, doesn't it? And the fact that we are all products of our environment and you know, the things that we've maybe grown up saying probably aren't the types of things that we're saying nowadays. And it's just about recognising that think language will always change, it will always evolve. Even now I get confused because we can use figuratively and literally interchangeably because literally sometimes means figuratively now. And that's okay because that's just the way it's getting used. And it's, and it's, it's just language and life evolves, right? And we get on board with it or we don't. And sometimes it's just recognising that because something comes as second nature or that's just how our brains process and how we think and the way we refer to things. Being open to hearing it when someone else says I hear that differently to you or did you know that we don't use that word anymore and for this reason and it's just about being okay with it and not being so wedded back to that being right and wrong.
Isn't it like to being right that we have to go back through? Well, the dictionary definition of the use of they means multiple people and therefore it's like really, really Is that what, is that what you're going to hold on to the dictionary definition? Or how about someone has expressed to you that, you know, they want you to use a gender neutral pronoun in reference to them because that's what feels right for them. Why would we, why would we withhold that from them? Just because the dictionary has something for you. Like is that what we're going to do?
But we're living in a world now where everything we're just talking about here we'll have people listening today and hello, thank you for listening. Who are nodding their heads and going, yeah too right. Maybe we've got people listening, going, God, this sounds like a load of woke BS to me. God, just get a life, you snowflakes. You know, start, let's get in the real world here. Just get on with stuff. Solve the first world problems. Not these, these, these issues we're facing.
So why, why why should people care?
I mean, and that's a good question, right? Because you don't. We don't have to care as humans, I guess if your life is so beautiful and comfortable that you don't get misgendered and you don't have people using language that is utterly offensive to you or your existence, then fantastic, that's, that's great for you. Do you want to continue living in a world where it's all good for you and screw everyone else, essentially? Like, do you want that? Or do you want to be able to have conversations and communicate with people in a way that really opens up, you know, a community to you? And even if just purely for selfish reasons. Right. If you are someone who is responsible for an entire organisation, do you really want to be viewed as someone who is an immovable object, or do you want to be viewed as someone who really gets what it's like, as an employer, who really understands the people that work for you, that really understands how your clients and your customers see the world? Like, do you want to be able to engage with people in that way, or do you want to stay completely wedded to your own frame of reference and just live there and live in that bubble? It's a choice, isn't it? You can step outside, you can learn about people who are different to you because those people will be in your personal circles, they will be within your employee teams, they will be on your customers, they'll be in your supply chain. People exist all around you. Why would we not engage?
You were saying just at the beginning of the podcast when we started talking, that the danger is, if we're not careful, is that people live in their own lived experience. So, you know, we look at the. Some serious well known influences in this world. I would. My personal opinion is that they're negative influencers, people like Andrew Tate. They live in a world, an echo chamber, where they have a belief that they're doing the right thing. They have an opinion around masculinity and femininity, that men are superior, women have their place for whatever their opinions are that I find abhorrent. But they have a belief system and they have a followers and they're not going to change, are they? And when you polarise your views in that way, it's very difficult to try and get around the table and have a conversation.
So how do we start to chip away at the edges of the people who are unsure or being influenced?
Yeah, and I think that for me is the. The audience that I am most drawn to in the conversations that I have, because, yeah, there are. There are definitely people who are immovable objects in this world, and the likes of Andrew Tate are one of them in the sense that they believe what they believe, and it serves them to double down on that harder and harder every time, because that's their brand now. So even if someone showed them information that could change their mind, they're never going to do that because they've built a brand on what they're doing and they play on. My belief is they play into that, because when you have got, you know, the. What I believe to be the majority of people, and I guess in Andrew Tate's audience, we're probably talking young men who feel that their place in the world is being either threatened or somehow feels like it's shifting and they're not sure how. When you are part of that group and you, you know, everyone's telling you that your identity doesn't matter anymore. There's no place for you be quiet, because we're going to give voice to everybody else.
And then you've got someone like Andrew Tate who's going, hey, come on over here, because I see you. I can. I can be someone that you can look up to. I mean, it's. It's, from my perspective, pretty horrifying. But I can also understand why people gravitate towards that, because it's making space. It's making space for someone to flow in, to feel seen and heard and tr. Truly, when it comes to the work of inclusion, my perspective at least, is like inclusion is everybody, and it's just not at the expense of anybody.
So it's really about how are we making sure all of the people that might be feeling unwelcome, I guess, in spaces that they once were just naturally welcomed into, how do we. We maintain their presence and maintain them in the conversation so that they don't have to look to role models like the Andrew Tates of this world to feel seen and heard. How will we make. Again, back to those conversations. We need to be talking with one another, especially around, you know, masculinity, because when we talk about, you know, the. The hard kind of patriarchal systems that we're. We're living within, like, that harms men, too. Like, that's.
That's not. That's not a gender thing. It's a. It's a. You know, it's harmful for everybody other than the very few people that it was designed to benefit. So we have to kind of change the narrative so we can have a conversation about patriarchy is bad for everybody practically. So how are we making sure that we are understanding what that means and rallying against that? So it's not about anti men, it's about anti the system that harms everybody, if that makes sense.
Yeah, it was a great example and I've been watching it evolve over LinkedIn and other people talk about online on last Friday's episode of Graham Norton and there was two, two men, I, I can't remember the names of the people involved, but there were two men talking about Hollywood superstars, talking about doing some training about self defence and they were using a mobile phone as part of their self defence mechanism. And I think one man said the other man who would use their mobile phone to defend somebody off. And then the woman who was on the panel, also a Hollywood superstar, chipped in and said, well, actually this is what women have to think about all the time. Whatever object they've got to hand, it becomes a potential defence weapon. And most, most women will hold their mobile phone in a defensive way if they need to beat off an attacker. And she turned to the audience, isn't that right, ladies? And the whole audience erupted in applause and it's certainly resonating on LinkedIn because we, many people see the world through their own blinkers. They don't see from a male patriarchal perspective, they believe they're great people, they feel that they're inclusive, they don't feel that they're, they're toxic masculinity or anything like that, but they don't really see the lived experience of others. And that's, that's, we've got this gap, isn't it, this empathy bridge we've got to try and create.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And, and I think it, I've seen that clip too and I think it, it's a brilliant demonstration almost, isn't it, that the silence of the rest of the panel are just stunned into when she says, like, actually when, when you're a woman, that's something you have to think about. And it's that moment of like, oh, oh, here we are making a joke about it, but, oh, okay. And, and that I think that's hugely important because if we aren't sharing our experiences and really understanding, you know, the world was created in a certain way, you either fit that mould or you don't fit that mould. And if you don't fit into the mould of, you know, of what success or what safety looks like, it can be really terrifying. But that's damaging for everybody. Who doesn't fit into that mould? So if you then play this out, if men are supposed to be like, well, who needs, who needs a mobile phone to defend themselves? It's like, actually, a lot of men would probably also be looking for the first thing they've got to hand as a defence. So here we are making light of, you know.
Oh, yeah, guys don't need, you know, to think about weapons for defending themselves. Well, they probably do. If you're going to get attacked, you're probably not someone who's going to naturally, you know, have been trained in jiu jitsu and be able to leap into action. Like, no, you're going to want to absolutely peg it to find safety or you're, you're going to be in fight mode and you're going to do the best you can with whatever is to hand. And making joke of that is really just reinforcing that narrative, isn't it? Of, you know, yeah, we're dudes, we can have a fight. Like, can you and should you.
I know that often what we, what we don't do is we don't think about, you know, we're talking about the other person's lived experience, the other. What the other people are going through. And we, in the EDI space, in corporate or wherever we're working, we often talk about the power of lived experience, the power of storytelling, the power of lifting to other people's experiences. And I remember when I transitioned seven or eight years ago, I started to realise I didn't have some of the lived experience that many of my female friends had. And it became apparent when I was sitting, having lunch or having a drink or having a chat with people that there was a whole load of lived experience. I was completely blinkered to as a man. And I've also realised that as a white person, I'm blinkered to the experience of black, brown, people of colour. And there was an incident of a year or so, 18 months, or whenever it was about a young, young girl who was stripped, searched by the police.
She was on her period. They're searching for marijuana, believing she'd hidden it inside her. And as a white person, I was completely oblivious to this story, but every person who I knew who was black was hyper aware of this type of conversation. And it just shows that, you know, we live in our echo chamber, even though we, as an inclusion consultant, you know, I'm sure you are yourself, you're very aware of trying to keep your knowledge out there, but we listen to the news, we listen to don't we, we don't hear the communities amplifying because we're not in those communities. How do we, how do we encourage people to. I call, we're touching on here. We're talking about cultural intelligence, aren't we? How do we build up that cultural intelligence?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it, because it's the frequencies that we tune into, isn't it? That, you know, when we, we listen and I can't remember the, the acronym or something rather, but the piece within our brain that really listens out for things like our name and things that are relevant to us that mean our interest gets piqued. And this, this is it, isn't it? It's the frequency with which we listen to things through our philtre, through, through our frame of reference. And it's about how do we broaden that? How do we have conversations with people that are different to us, to un, to ask and to understand different experiences, to you know, our echo chambers that we live in, which is, let's face it, is pretty much our social media. Are we just following people who are just like us with the same experiences as us that went to the same school that we did, you know, or how are we looking for content and information to help educate us about experiences that exist outside that? Because that's all within our control, isn't it? Because, you know, social media, it's a designed algorithm to give us more of the things that we click on and we, you know, we linger on so actively go out there and look for experiences that are different to yours to try and understand, to become tuned in because you, you soon very quickly start to notice it. I know now, like when I'm watching tv, you just. I'm a huge fan of things like Love is Blind and Married at First Sight. Like they're my absolute guilty pleasure.
I love them. But actually I think it was in the Married at Fireside Australia. You see over the seasons the absolute misogyny that exists within a lot of the goings on. And it doesn't get called out in the early seasons, it's just the way that people treat each other. And it's now in the more recent seasons, you know, the so called, the experts that sit on the sofa and help guide these young couples that are going through or you know, whatever age couple that are going through their relationships, they actually will now stop conversations and call people out to say, actually do you understand how this, you know, how you're speaking to your partner, partner and they really highlight it and make people face into the discomfort of these conversations because media is becoming savvy to understand, actually we have to see more of this. And, and we, you know, it's, it's becoming more available and open to us in the things that we consume in our social media, within the TV programmes that we watch. You know, I'm a huge fan of things like Heart Stopper. That's a new season of Heartstopper that's just come out on Netflix, which is.
I, I wish there had been TV programmes like that out when I was growing up at school, because it is the most non dramatic and beautiful high school drama TV programme that you're ever going to get. And it follows a group of LGBTQIA teens through their education. And it's beautiful. It's absolutely beautiful. It's a gorgeous representation. And I'm going to use the term queer love, because as an LGBTQIA plus person myself, I'm okay with that term. But I also understand there might be people listening who are not ok, okay. Or comfortable with the term queer.
So I would like to acknowledge that it's not about you. It's a term I'm using for myself. And I love, and I love seeing that played out. Just, you know, the beauty of LGBTQIA plus kids and their experiences. And in this most recent series, they have a character in there that really resonates with me because they're developing an asexual character. So for me to see that played back out on screen again, I just wish that had been something I could have seen growing up because it would have made me get to my own realisations a hell of a lot sooner than I currently did. But again, it's all about frame of reference, right? Because we didn't talk about those things when I was at school. You know, it was all.
Being gay was an absolute slur. So it just. You just didn't have that conversation. How are we having more conversations with each other? How are we challenging our perspectives? You know, I could go on. I mean, for me, TV is a big, A big thing. I'm again a fan of Grey's Anatomy and I remember several years ago, the scene where Miranda Bailey sits her son Tucker down. And Miranda Bailey is a. Is a black surgeon and her son, therefore, is a black child.
And she, she sits him down and has to have the conversation about if you get stopped by the police, this is what you have to do. And she is very explicit around, this is how you have to behave, this is how you have to move slowly. This is what you have to Say you need to be polite, do not run away. And this whole list of things and it really dawned on me as, like, I don't have children myself, but I don't recall any of my friends having to have that conversation with their children because they're all white. So I was like, okay, that's not even something you would think you would have to do. And yet, you know, as you were saying, I speak to my black friends, they're like, yep, like, absolutely. This is, this is not, this is not a surprise that this, that this would, would feature in a TV programme. And how are we engaging in things that really make us.
I actually want to use the term awake, so make us woke in its true sense of the word to what is happening in the lives of other people. Yeah, I feel like I've gone on a bit there, so please come.
No, no. As you're talking there about the. You say a lot of our information, our feed is from social media. We tend to be our affinity bias, our people who are part of our same social groups, etc, we make it worse because when we start seeing people who have different views, we either get angry with them or we block them or unfollow them or mute or whatever we're going to do or start a post in war on their feet going, you're wrong. So we end up polarising ourselves even more and building our armies, don't we? Me and my mates are going to come and take you and your mates on for your belief. Social media promotes that, that, that petrol on the fire experience, doesn't it?
It absolutely can do. And also it can be a force for good as well. I think it just depends on how you consume it and how you engage. And again, you know, there are people that I'm not going to engage with on social media. You know, I'm perfectly happy. I'm a bit Marmite for people. Some people really dislike my content. That's okay, they don't have to follow.
That's what the unfollow button is for. Right. You don't need me in your feed. No worries. Don't look. If you come in my comments abusing the people that do like my content, I will, I will block you. That's like, you know, no problem. However, there are also people who I know that lurk a bit and are a bit curious because they see what I post and they're like, oh, I don't understand that and I'd like to have a conversation with you without getting blocked.
And that's what I'M absolutely here for because that is those moments where we, we have the opportunity to learn where we can engage with people to get different perspect perspectives. So I'm, you know, I'm never interested in the Donald Trumps of this world. And you know, for example, everything that's, that's going on with the pre election stuff is for me personally, pretty horrifying and divisive and intentionally so. However, there are going to be people that might hear what's coming out of that camp and think, okay, I can see how that makes sense. But they're still left with some questions and they're the people that I want to have conversations with because I want to know what is it that resonates with you? What is it about your experiences and your worldview that is leading you down a path where you can, you can see merit in some of this content? Because for me, it's about, I want to understand you. I want to understand how you've arrived, where you've arrived at, what are your experiences that are shaping that and really listen and then engage in a dialogue. Again, we're talking, not telling, right? And then engage in this conversation. And okay, and this is how I see the world and this is how I feel when you share those views.
And here is something that to me, you know, is at odds with what you're thinking and how can we have a conversation about that and not coming at it from a place of I want to change your opinion. It's just I want to offer you a different viewpoint and see how that feels to you and see what you might want to take away from that. And for me, that again, that's one of the most powerful opportunities, I guess, that are available when we, you know, we have people who are professional speakers and a lot of people speak about their lived experience and I think that's hugely powerful because when someone has taken time to craft their story and their experiences and they're willing to share it with you and deliver it with you, you can learn a lot from that. And you, you don't have to engage, you don't have to ask questions. You can just listen, listen to somebody else's experience and think, okay, that's different to mine. What, what does that make me feel now? Like, has that challenged any of my beliefs? And, and sit. You know, for me, I treat everything as data. So emotions are data.
So when I'm feeling completely jarred by something or if I, if I feel myself getting defensive like that, that feeling in your stomach when you're like, oh, I don't like this. For me, that's data. I'm like, okay, why am I responding that way? What within me and my value system is being challenged and, and I try and sit with it before I respond as well, just to think, okay, that's interesting. I think I'm feeling a bit, feeling a bit emotional, feeling a bit sick, feeling like I might want to punch this person. Okay, what's going on for me, you know, never gonna do that. But sometimes I get the feeling of like, oh, not, not a fan of yours. But I sit with, I sit with the discomfort and think, okay, what specifically is it? Which of my values are being challenged? Which of my, my beliefs are being challenged and is that fair? You know, am I not listening to them? Because I've immediately made a judgement because of these, you know, these physical feelings and emotions that happening to me and how am I going to make some space to actually listen to what they're saying so that I can make an informed decision? Because that decision might also be, no, you're not my cup of tea. I think, I think I'll pass.
And, and that's okay because I'm, I'm, you know, there are, there are hills that I will not die on. But also, you know, I, I like to understand that have I really listened to this person? And if I have, and I can, especially in one to one conversations, if I demonstrate and role model that listening, I kind of feel obliged to listen to me. Then when I decide I want to start wanging on about how I feel about things. And I know that if I can just plant a few seeds of thought with people, they in my experience, do take it away. And I've had people come back to me, you know, weeks after conversations and said I was thinking about that thing and actually I then had a conversation with. And they speak to other people and get other opinions and you see a shift and I think, I'll take that, that's good enough for me, that that's improved a conversation for someone else somewhere down the line.
Yeah, I often respond to people with, I don't owe you an argument. I saw a great analogy. So I think this one posted on LinkedIn, I can't remember who it was now, but they described it as, you turn up at my doorstep with your muddy boots on and you walk through my living room stomping your mud throughout my house and you expect me to be happy with that? Yeah, if you want to have a conversation, take your boots off and sit on my sofa and we'll have a cup of coffee and talk about it. But don't try and stamp your views all over me and expect me to be. To want it. So it's got to be a kind of respect. And a few times I'll just say to people, I don't owe you an argument. I'm not trying to justify who I am.
I'm not trying to get into a debate about fundamentals here. We're polar opposite on these views and beliefs. I'm happy to have a conversation about why you think something, but not what. I don't talk about what you think, just why. Tell me why. What scares you, what you're worried about, what's the thing that keeps us apart on this? And it's trying to find that common shared vision and common shared values that maybe we. Maybe we turn left or turn right at the end of the road. But fundamentally, we're both human and we want the same things.
Happy life.
Absolutely. And as a build on that as well, I think that for me, is there one of the most powerful roles that people can play as allies. And I mean, like true allies. Not the kind of. Like, I went on an allyship training course once, and I know some words to say, like real allyship, where people are willing to step up or step back in that. I know that, you know, I'm, you know, for, for those that are listening, like, I'm, you know, I'm a generally smiley white woman. Right. I'm.
I'm pretty well accepted in most spaces and, And I use that to my advantage. I'm not going to hide from that. Like, I can. I can have conversations with people that other people perhaps can't, because I'm pretty much. What's the word? Kind of unassuming. I'm a little bit disarming and, and people threatening.
Yeah, I get it.
People say things to me that are a bit more honest about how they feel that they won't say to some of my other associates who do the same work that I do because they don't want to offend them. But for me, for some reason, you know, people open up pretty quickly, and I'm okay with that. Because you can say something offensive, I probably won't be offended. It doesn't make it any less offensive. And I will help you unpack it. But that's okay. I'm totally all right for you to get that out at me and then we can have a conversation. And I see that as my role as an ally in the sense of I want to Help have those conversations with people when those conversations don't cause harm to kind of the groups that would be affected if it was them having to then I guess, like you were saying, argue for your own identity.
Like, no one should have to do that. So I'm perfectly happy to have all of the conversations about, you know, anti racism and trans awareness because I'm like, I, I want to be able to not speak on behalf of, but stand up for my friends in those communities who experience the harm because it doesn't personally impact me. So I can take that heat. And, and I think the more we have conversations about different experiences, the more that, and especially for people who are in leadership positions like, you have a responsibility to be an ally to people like that is that is your job as someone who is looked up to as a role model within a business, like, absolutely. And with. And within your families and your communities, like you, we have a responsibility as role models. But that does involve doing that uncomfortable work of. We have to understand this stuff to begin with.
We can't just sort of, I, you know, I've, I've got a few sentences I'll chop out, I'll trot out, and then if somebody challenges me on them, I'm a bit lost after that. It's like, no, you have to understand where you're coming from and what your viewpoint is and where you stand so that you can stand there.
You, you mentioned earlier, and you hinted on it just now around queer community. You see yourself as part of that. And you, you talked about how recognising the fact that some people find the word queer triggering, pejorative or brings back uncomfortable memories of past oppression or violence, discrimination, whatever it may be. I often frame it as the difference between an identity and a label. So I, I am versus you are. So I am queer in my outlook and my Persona and my characteristics, but I'm not a. You are queer. Don't call me queer, but I'm happy to be it.
I think when we think about the difference between identities and labels, don't label me, don't stereotype me, don't put me in a box with the queer on the outside. I'm in. I'm happy to stand with my friends and we are queer together, and that's, that's our power. But don't label me and weaponize it. And I think that's, that's the key there, isn't it?
Yeah, absolutely. And, and also I think, and this is where the language piece gets tricky again, isn't it? That not all words work for all people and we have to be all right with that. There is no hard and fast rule that, again, getting rid of the good and bad label. Just like if somebody would. Like, if someone is speaking about me and they want to make reference to me and they make reference to me as queer, I'm fine with it. I would absolutely say that unless you've had express permission from anybody else, don't do it. Like, if you're not talking about yourself and you. You haven't had it expressly, expressly made clear that it's okay.
Just avoid any language that could be loaded in that way. For me, that's it. Because, you know, you may get it right, you might not. So let's err on the side of you probably won't, and choose something else and learn to say lgbtqia. There is about as many characters as a number plate, so you can probably get it right with enough practise and say out loud a few times, you'll get there.
Which is why I tend to prefer the word queer, because I think it's more inclusive. Whereas if you start alphabetizing everything, you always end up missing somebody out. And I think rather than having the QAA + *, whatever it may be.
Yeah, yeah.
Sometimes I just think queer is a more inclusive term because it doesn't. Anybody who wants to fit into that label, they self identify.
Yeah, absolutely. But then, you know, for some people, it's. I also have friends within the community who. It really. It really does. It really does make them feel a certain type of way. So I also know, well, I won't even use that word about myself in their presence because I know how they feel. And again, you know, it's not that.
It's not that hard to say lgbtqia, but if you only get as far as lgbt, like, you can definitely remember that. Like, it's like HSBC or what, like, whatever. You know, you can. You can definitely. You can definitely remember lgbt. If that's as far as you get. We all know what you mean, so that's okay. If you can get further, if you get all the way to QIA plus, then someone like me who is in the A plus category, not just my grades at school, then I feel seen.
So as much as I agree with you in. In the sense of, actually, if we can use the word queer in a community sense, it just mean everybody, and that's grand. But actually, there is something to be said about the specificity, because I know if anybody gets as far as Saying A plus, I'm safe because they've done the work. And for me that's a big signal. And it's small. It's really small, but it's a huge signal.
But they know what the A stands for. They're just trotting it off. Is it allies? Asexual.
Yeah. And it does mean asexual. And if you don't know what that is, go and do some work on it because it's very important.
So you've given me a segue there to ask you about your asexuality. As, as you said earlier, you're a, a white woman. You appear to be blonde at the moment. I guess that's your. Yeah, you've got a fair complexion, a big smile. So you are kind of girl next door passing, aren't you?
Yeah, totally. Oh, 100. And to muddy the waters of people's expectations, I'm also in a relationship with a, a straight man. So, you know, on, on the face of it, there's nothing to see here, which I always find really funny because that I, I get. People make comments to me like, well, hang on, asexual. But haven't you've got a boyfriend, haven't you? I'm like, yeah, I know. Funny how that works because it's so for me and, and even within the queer community, it's such a misunderstood sexual orientation. And it is an orientation and to be clear, it's.
It's around the absence or the kind of. I don't want to say I hate the word lack, but it's around. I don't experience sexual attraction in the way that most other people would, would describe their experience. So I, I've never really understood what getting horny meant. Like, I thought it was a thing. I, I now know, having spoken to lots of my friends about it, I don't get horny. It's not a thing. That's okay, right? But it's just the assumption is that everybody, and certainly within the media as well, this is a big thing.
Like, it's just that. But everybody, everybody does that. Everybody experiences sexual attraction. It's just who you're attracted to that changes. And that's not true because I don't experience sexual attraction. Now, in addition to that, I'm not aromantic, which is if I was aromantic, I would also be someone that doesn't experience romantic attraction. What I am is pan romantic, which means my romantic attraction is not bound by gender. So it doesn't matter to me the gender of a person.
I can be romantically attracted to, that's fine. But it's, it's based very much more around emotional, intellectual attractions. That's what, that's my thing. But I'm still not gonna. Well, I don't want to be too crude about it, but I'm still not going to experience sexual attraction.
I'm just, I'm going to dive into this conversation a bit further if you don't mind. Yeah. So for clarity and it's nice to have the opportunity to sit with a self declared asexual person and ask them this question on a podcast. So it doesn't mean to say that you're, you don't enjoy sex, it just means that you don't experience horniness or attraction physically to somebody who you meet in passing. But you, you still have an active sex life.
Yeah, exactly, exactly that. So there is again, there's a difference between sexual attraction and pleasure and there's a difference between pleasure and libido. So all of these things are different things. And this is, again, this is something I find really fascinating because as an asexual person I've done the work in understanding how my brain and my body work and where they work in tandem and where they work in, in opposition. However, what I have realised is people who are allosexual, which is the opposite of asexual. So people who do experience sexual attraction tend to not go any further than that. It's just a case of I fancy you, will you be my partner? You know, maybe it takes you a few dates to get to the deed, but then it all, it all hinges around the importance of like sexual compatibility. Because if you don't have that, you're friend zoned.
And I'm like, is that, is that really the be all and end all of your relationship? I don't think it is. I think there's so many multiple layers that tend to be considered as secondary, whereas in my relationships they are certainly more at the forefront. Because I'm not, I'm not driven by the, the sexual desire side. I'm more about like, how funny are you? How smart are you?
Like, you know, I do the soul mate stuff. Yeah. Because I want to spend my time with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm investing in you.
Yeah, yeah. Which is it? And also, you know, having, having spent the last, well, I don't know, all of the years that I've been sexually active. Like, I also understand objectively, for me it's something that is pleasurable. I also know asexual people who have absolutely Zero interest in it. It don't find it sex pleasurable at all. That's okay too, because some people can be sex positive and some people can be sex repulsed. Like, it's all totally okay.
But you, I think you explain that by saying that your sexuality and your, how you interact and attract to people is, is a different than your libido.
Yeah, absolutely. And as a build on that as well. You know, even if you are a straight person, if you are. If I was a straight woman, I wouldn't be attracted to every, every man. Like, you know, there are just different things about different people that make someone attractive and, and we all have that. It, you know, it's just for me, I notice them differently.
Does it cause your partners any confusion? Do you have to explain it to them in the same sort of way you explain it to me?
Yes, is the honest answer. I had to have my most recent partner. We had to, we had to have the chat, which is, I recognise that you're a cisgender straight man. And luckily he's fairly well versed in some of these topics because he was a follower of mine on LinkedIn to begin with. Sounds good, but. So he knew I was ace coming into the, into the conversation and I had to kind of have the, the explanation of, in being in a relationship with me, we will be in a queer relationship. So you're still a straight cisgender man. Like, nothing about you changes, but the nature of our relationship is a queer relationship.
And how do you feel about that? And that was a big conversation and luckily we ended up, you know, we're a year down the line now. We ended up in a place where that all was okay, but for me it was very important to understand that because, you know, again, if I was a bisexual person, just because I'm in a relationship with a straight man doesn't now mean I'm straight. I would still be bisexual. It just happens to be that I'm in the relationship with a specific person. And so this, it's the same for being ASOL or any other orientation.
So if you were listening, Ace. Ace is the kind of accepted abbreviation for asexual. Ace or asexual. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've.
It's interesting that my own relationship with my wife Marie here, obviously we got married 1987. That's a while ago. 37, a bit years ago. And to all intents and purposes, and in fact to ourselves, we were a straight couple. A man marrying a woman. And then the rules changed about 10 years ago and now There's a trans woman married to a CIS woman. And Marie had to reinvent her own sense of self and maybe it helped unlock some of her deeper thoughts around her own sexuality. And she now describes herself as bisexual, which makes go to the cinema and watching TV quite interesting because we're, we're both trying to work out which one's fancying which one.
You know, it doesn't matter if it's a man or, you know, the rocker's got his shirt off. Bradley Cooper's yeah, looking great today, or whether it's Lady Gaga performing or something. So we almost look at each other. I know what you're looking at. No, I know what you're looking at. It's like we could, we can share more of a spectrum. So I would describe myself as, as pan. Probably.
Probably more pan romantic than anything. You know, I, I'm happy to, but I'm more asexual when it comes to other things. So, yeah, I'm not necessarily sexually attractive, but I'm sexual curious, if you like. I, I appreciate looking at people, but not in a, a desire way, but in a kind of appreciation way.
So it's like the aesthetic attraction because that's also a layer of attraction. That kind of. Yeah, aesthetic attraction and asexuality is, is. It exists on multiple planes because there'll be people who would. Who fall under the asexual banner who would be demisexual. So it's like they may not experience sexual attraction generally, but once they have a deep emotional bond with someone, that is something that becomes present for them. And the opposite is also true. There are people who do experience sexual attraction up until the point that a deep emotional bond might be forming and then they're out.
It's not, it's not a thing for them anymore. So it, it exists in all of its multiple planes.
This is also woke, isn't it?
I know it's amazing, but one of my curious things is like. And maybe I'm overstepping, but don't you think that your relationship. Because when you get. I find when you get into these nitty gritty conversations with the people that you're in a relationship with, like, it all comes out right. You talk all kinds of stuff. And I find that that level of communication in a relationship just makes the relationship better. Once you've really got into the weeds of all of this stuff, like you can talk about everything.
Yeah. I would say that one of the things I found most liberating around my gender transition is that I no longer have any Secrets. There are no fundamental secrets in my life. You cannot blackmail me anymore. Because I'm not saying radical candour, but it's kind of. I, I don't have to hide anything. I've told the biggest secret in my life. I've, I've, I've exposed that.
And you're right. When I have conversations with my wife, I'm not hiding anything. I'm not, you know, she knows who I am. We're not trying to hide anything. And she knows who we are. And you, we, we have some really good fun. BELLY LAUGHS Often because we truly are connected at that sort of cerebral level.
Yeah.
Yeah, okay. We've married 37 years, but I genuinely feel that we're, we're closer now than we've ever been at that intellectual level, but as soulmates, as true life partners that have had two children together and spend our lives together and want to spend the rest of our lives together. So, yeah, you're right, it is a lot more deep. I'm not trying to pretend or hide something. I'm not living a life where I wish I had something different. I'm living the life I love. I think that that comes from being openly honest and be able to talk about anything.
Absolutely. And again, it's coming back to talking, isn't it? If we, if all spaces were spaces where we could have conversations like this, where we could just honestly be ourselves. I mean, I hate the word authenticity, but there is no better word than it. If we could just be who we each are without the pressures of society, without the judgement of others, we just get to be like. I feel like that would be. That's. That's the kind of beautiful world that I want to live in and that's why I do the work that I do.
I noticed, I was just reading the show notes as you're talking there, and one of the things you put in there was you want to reach more people with your message of curiosity, of accortion and I. E. In quotes. Screw perfectionism. Let's just talk.
Yeah.
So, yeah, nobody has to be perfect, do they?
There's no such thing. There is no such thing as perfect. Because in whose eyes? By whose standards? Like, it's all, like. We're all just messy, imperfect, complicated, complex beings. Like, let's just, let's just be.
We're throwing away billions of tonnes of food every day because the apple isn't quite round, the banana's too straight, it's got a slight knuckle bruise on it. Yeah, we should be embracing Ugly fruit imperfection in each other and in what we eat.
100% love the metaphor, Katie.
It's been absolutely fascinating. I said to you before we went live that I would say at around this time that how much I do enjoy the conversation. And it sounds a bit inauthentic when you say it up front, but yeah, honestly, I've thoroughly enjoyed the conversation and it's been a lovely opportunity to get to know you better. And I'd always wanted to ask you about your asexuality. So it's going to help you to pry.
We can have. We can continue it as well after.
Yes, we can continue after. And you're going to invite me onto your podcast, so I'm looking forward to that. And then you could put the spotlight in my eyes and say, come on, Joe, tell me about who you are. I look forward to that. But yeah. So, Katie, how do people get a hold of you? I'm sure there are loads of people out there listening who want to find out more.
Yes. So I am Most active on LinkedIn, so you can search me on. There is Katie Allen or Katie Allen consulting. You'll find me under both. I am. I do have brown hair, so I need to update that image, but you can't miss me. I've got a big orange circle. I'm also have my website, KatieAllenconsulting.com and yeah, I'm.
I mean, I. I'm a talker, as everybody will know. So if anybody wants a conversation, please feel free to slide into my DMs. I'm always happy to have a chat because I. That's how I think we make the world better.
Respectfully, slide into your DMs. Always sounds a bit smutty. That doesn't slide into my dm.
Sliding. It's all good. We both know I'm not attracted to anyone, so it's fine.
Yeah. So no point sending dick pics, is there? No.
No. Really? Yeah. If any. They're not doing anyone anything for anyone. It's definitely not me.
Yeah. Katie, thank you so much. As we bring this conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your ear and heart to the cause of inclusion. If today's discussion struck a chord, consider subscribing to Inclusion Bytes and become part of our ever growing community driving real change. Share this journey with friends, family and colleagues. Let's amplify the voices that matter. Got thoughts, stories or a vision to share? I'm all ears. Reach out to jo lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk and let's make your voice heard.
Until next time, this is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return with more enriching narratives that challenge, inspire and unite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world one episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.
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Episode Category
Primary Category: LGBTQ+
Secondary Category: Emotional Intelligence
🔖 Titles
Understanding the Weight of Language: Conversations on Inclusion and Accountability
Real Talk on Intentions, Impact, and Language Sensitivity
The Power of Words: Unpacking Harm and Inclusivity in Everyday Language
Building Empathy: Language Choices and Their Deeper Impacts
Inclusion Through Words: Adventures in Cultural Intelligence and Sensitivity
From Good Intentions to Better Outcomes: Language and Accountability
Talking Not Telling: Enhancing Leadership Through Inclusive Language
The Evolving Landscape of Language in Identity and Inclusivity
Conversations on Asexuality and LGBTQIA Representation: Bridging Gaps Through Dialogue
Authentic Communication: Navigating Difficult Conversations with Empathy and Insight
A Subtitle - A Single Sentence describing this episode
Katie Allen explores the intricate balance of intention versus impact, urging for mindful language use and deeper understanding to foster genuine inclusivity, while emphasising the evolving nature of identity and the role of authentic, empathetic conversations in leadership.
Episode Tags
Inclusive Language, Broken Arm Analogy, Gender Neutral Pronouns, LGBTQIA Representation, Asexuality Explained, Terminology in Sales, Social Media Echo Chambers, Psychological Safety, Cultural Intelligence, Leadership and Diversity
Episode Summary with Intro, Key Points and a Takeaway
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood welcomes Katie Allen to explore the profound impacts of language and accountability. Katie, a confidence coach and inclusion consultant, uses a broken arm analogy to illustrate that good intentions do not negate the harm caused by ill-chosen words or actions. Joanne and Katie delve into why language matters and the significant role it plays in fostering inclusivity.
Katie Allen is a well-regarded inclusion consultant passionate about creating spaces that encourage meaningful dialogue over confrontation. She is most active on LinkedIn and also runs her website, KatieAllenConsulting.com. Katie's approach is rooted in fostering understanding and mutual respect, with a particular focus on the evolving nature of language and the importance of respecting personal preferences in terms of identity. She is committed to offering practical insights into how leaders can enhance communication and engagement within diverse groups.
Throughout the episode, Katie and Joanne discuss how small adjustments in language can prevent unintended harm, an effort which comes at virtually no cost. Joanne expresses frustration over the resistance to change often labelled as sensitivity issues, while Katie likens adaptive language to terminology used in sales for better outcomes. They emphasise the ingrained, sometimes harmful, connotations within daily language and highlight the need for greater awareness and reflection. Katie shares her experiences as an asexual person, elucidating the distinctions between various forms of attraction and challenging misconceptions.
Katie and Joanne also delve into the necessity of leaders engaging in uncomfortable yet constructive conversations to foster true inclusivity, recognising that empathy and storytelling are crucial for understanding diverse lived experiences. They discuss how social media algorithms can create echo chambers, underscoring the importance of seeking out and listening to diverse voices.
A key takeaway from this episode is the call for accountability in language use to enhance communication and inclusivity. Listeners will gain insight into how simple changes can have a significant impact, encouraging them to reflect on their own language and actions. Whether you're looking to improve personal or professional interactions, this episode offers valuable perspectives on the power of mindful language.
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 Inclusion Bites with Joanne Lockwood explores inclusion and societal change through bold conversations. Engage, share, and join the discussion.
04:20 Leaders must embrace discomfort and diverse perspectives to foster inclusion and implement effective strategies.
09:28 Acknowledging potential racism, the individual prefers to learn and avoid offensive language rather than argue, citing the example of the word "Eskimo" in a song.
12:15 Language evolves; embrace changes and differing perspectives.
14:16 Engage with diverse perspectives for inclusive and empathetic communication.
19:34 Discussion on Graham Norton about using mobile phones for self-defence highlighted gender perspectives on safety and elicited strong audience response.
20:48 The text highlights the importance of acknowledging and sharing diverse experiences, emphasising that societal norms often exclude many, and making light of such issues can be harmful to everyone.
23:50 Broaden your perspective by seeking diverse experiences and viewpoints, rather than staying in echo chambers, especially on social media.
27:58 A woman instructs her child on interacting safely with police due to racial concerns, highlighting a racial disparity not experienced by her white peers.
32:39 Pause, reflect, and evaluate personal reactions to challenging situations before responding to make informed decisions.
33:46 Listening and role modelling can plant seeds of thought, leading to shifts in understanding and improved conversations.
37:18 Being an ally requires engaging in discussions on anti-racism and trans awareness, especially for leaders, as part of their responsibility to support affected communities.
42:20 An asexual person discusses being in a relationship with a straight man, highlighting common misconceptions about asexuality, even within the queer community.
44:44 Sexual attraction, pleasure, and libido are distinct concepts. Asexual individuals often explore these differences deeply, unlike allosexuals who may prioritise sexual compatibility in relationships.
48:27 A straight couple married in 1987 now identifies as a trans woman and a cis woman; the wife now considers herself bisexual, affecting how they perceive attraction in media.
51:31 Closer than ever after 37 years of marriage, living a deeply fulfilling life as soulmates through open honesty.
54:46 Subscribe to Inclusion Bytes to support and share inclusive conversations. Contact jo lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to contribute.
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 Conversations on inclusion and belonging with Joanne.
04:20 Leaders must embrace uncomfortable conversations for inclusivity.
09:28 Reflect on impact; stop using offensive terms.
12:15 Language and life evolve; embrace change and understanding.
14:16 Why not engage and understand diverse perspectives?
19:34 Discussion on self-defence sparked empathy conversation.
20:48 Silence highlights importance of sharing women's experiences.
23:50 Expand perspective by engaging beyond personal echo chambers.
27:58 Teaching black children how to safely interact with police.
32:39 Reflective discomfort indicates value and belief conflict.
33:46 Listening and planting ideas leads to change.
37:18 Responsibility to be allies and foster conversations.
42:20 Asexual in relationship with straight man misunderstood.
44:44 Sex, attraction, pleasure, libido differ in relationships.
48:27 Trans woman married to bisexual CIS woman.
51:31 Deep connection and love after 37 years.
54:46 Join Inclusion Bytes: Subscribe and share voices.
TikTok/Reels/Shorts Video Summary
Focus Keyword: Culture Change
Title:
Culture Change: Positive People Experiences | #InclusionBitesPodcast
Tags:
inclusion, diversity, community, equity, belonging, positive people experiences, culture change, language sensitivity, gender neutrality, LGBTQIA, allyship, leadership, asexuality, societal norms, empathy, storytelling, inclusive language, privilege, reflection, personal identity, psychological safety, empathy bridge, social media, polarisation, constructive dialogue
Killer Quote:
"The choice of language can be adapted for both personal benefit and to avoid causing offence." - Katie Allen
Hashtags:
#InclusionBitesPodcast, #PositivePeopleExperiences, #CultureChange, #Diversity, #Belonging, #Inclusion, #Equality, #LanguageMatters, #Communication, #Leadership, #LGBTQIA, #Empathy, #Storytelling, #SocialChange, #MindfulLanguage, #Respect, #Identity, #Allyship, #OpenDialogue, #PersonalGrowth
Summary Description:
Join me, Joanne Lockwood, in this episode of Inclusion Bites Podcast as I chat with Katie Allen about the transformative power of language in driving Culture Change. We delve deep into why Positive People Experiences matter and explore the nuances of inclusion, from language sensitivity to the evolving nature of identities. Perfect for leaders, allies, and anyone passionate about improving communication and inclusivity. Don’t miss out on this enlightening conversation!
Call to action: Listen now to grasp actionable insights that can make a difference in your personal and professional interactions.
Outro:
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Inclusion Bites Podcast. If you enjoyed it, be sure to like and subscribe to our channel for more insightful conversations. For more information and to listen to the full episode, visit SEE Change Happen at https://seechangehappen.co.uk and https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen.
Stay curious, stay kind, and stay inclusive - Joanne Lockwood
ℹ️ Introduction
Welcome to the latest episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast! I’m your host, Joanne Lockwood, and today’s episode titled "Talking Not Telling" promises to challenge perspectives and ignite thoughtful dialogue. Joining me is Katie Allen, a confidence coach and inclusion consultant, who delves into the importance of understanding the difference between good intentions and actual impact, using powerful analogies and lived experiences.
Throughout our conversation, we explore the complexities of language and identity, the nuances of asexuality, and the responsibilities of leaders to foster inclusive environments. Katie shares her insights on cultural intelligence, the role of allies, and the ever-evolving nature of language. She also discusses her experiences as an asexual person and the importance of open, authentic conversations in personal and professional settings.
We highlight the influential power of media and challenge listeners to step out of echo chambers reinforced by social media algorithms. By the end, we hope you'll see the importance of language sensitivity, empathy, and the need for ongoing reflection in creating truly inclusive spaces. So, tune in, subscribe, and join us as we strive to make inclusion an actionable reality. #InclusionBites #PositivePeopleExperiences
💬 Keywords
inclusion, accountability, language sensitivity, unintended consequences, impact, asexuality, LGBTQIA, queer identity, gender-neutral pronouns, allyship, empathy, psychological safety, storytelling, lived experiences, cultural intelligence, diversity, emotional data, non-sexual attraction, panromantic, inclusion strategies, antisensitisation, privilege, echo chambers, social media algorithms, media representation, patriarchal systems, open conversations, leadership in EDI, identity within relationships, aesthetic attraction, authenticity
About this Episode
About The Episode:
In this episode, we have an enlightening conversation with Katie Allen, diving into the nuances of language use in fostering inclusivity. Katie shares her profound insights on the impact of intentional language choices and the importance of evolving one's communication to be more inclusive. Join us as we explore how thoughtful dialogue can transform relationships and organisations.
Today, we'll cover:
The concept that good intentions do not negate the potential harm caused by one's actions.
The importance of accountability for the impact of one's language and actions.
Strategies for adapting language to avoid harm and improve personal and professional outcomes.
The evolving nature of language and the significance of respecting individual preferences.
How listening to diverse perspectives can enhance communication and inclusivity in leadership.
The role of storytelling and lived experiences in learning and reflection.
The impact of social media algorithms on reinforcing echo chambers and the need to seek diverse voices.
💡 Speaker bios
Joanne Lockwood is a pioneering force in the field of inclusion and belonging, dedicated to fostering societal transformation through bold and thought-provoking conversations. As the host of the enlightening platform, Inclusion Bites, Joanne serves as a compassionate guide for those seeking to understand and cultivate environments where everyone not only belongs but thrives. Through her work, she delves into the unseen aspects of society, challenges the status quo, and shares impactful stories that resonate on a profound level. Joanne invites listeners to connect, reflect, and inspire action, creating a community of individuals committed to change. Always ready to engage and collaborate, she can be reached at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk for those wishing to contribute their insights or participate in her journey.
💡 Speaker bios
Katie Allen is a dedicated advocate for open communication and understanding, constantly seeking to break down conversational barriers that hinder effective dialogue. She recognises that uncertainty about what can and cannot be said often silences vital interactions, depriving individuals of the chance to explore and understand different perspectives. Through her efforts, Katie encourages people to navigate the grey areas of ambiguity, facilitating thoughtful exchanges where everyone can freely express their thoughts. She believes in the transformative power of empathy, aiming to foster moments of realisation where individuals can appreciate viewpoints different from their own.
❇️ Key topics and bullets
Certainly! Below is a comprehensive sequence of topics covered in the provided text, with sub-topic bullets under each primary topic:
Episode Overview: Talking Not Telling
Podcast Introduction
Podcast Name: "The Inclusion Bites Podcast"
Episode Title: "Talking Not Telling"
Host: Joanne Lockwood (she/her)
Guest: Katie Allen (she/her)
General Themes Discussed
Concept of Good Intentions vs. Potential Harm
Using a broken arm analogy
Importance of accountability
Changing language to avoid harm
Language Sensitivity and Adaptability
Resistance to modifying language
Adaptation of language for personal benefit and to avoid offence
Importance of awareness of connotations in phrases
Evolving Nature of Language
Importance of respecting individuals' language preferences
Use of gender-neutral pronouns
Debate on sensitivity of language usage
Specific Language and Identity Discussions
Inclusive Terminology: LGBTQIA+ and "Queer"
Use of "queer" by Joanne Lockwood
Sensitivity and obtaining permission
Specificity with terms like LGBTQIA+
Asexuality and Its Understanding
Katie Allen’s personal experiences
Explanation of sexual attraction, pleasure, and libido differences
Relationship dynamics involving asexual individuals
Diversity within asexual experiences
Common misconceptions about asexuality
Communication and Relationships
Enhancing Conversations through Listening and Empathy
Engaging in conversations with different viewpoints
Importance of storytelling for learning
Emotions as data for self-reflection
Fostering mutual respect
Role and Responsibility of Allies
Genuine allyship
Using privilege for difficult conversations
Responsibilities of leaders regarding inclusivity
Social Dynamics and Media Representation
Social Media and Echo Chambers
Influence of media algorithms
Challenges of polarisation
Potential of social media as a positive force
Impact of Media Representation
Influence of TV shows on societal norms
Personal connection to LGBTQIA representation
Insights from media on racial issues
Personal Reflections from Speakers
Identity and Experience Sharing
Joanne Lockwood’s insights post-transition
Joanne’s relationship dynamics with her wife
Katie Allen’s relationship and communication challenges
Call to Action and Engagement
Connection with Katie Allen
Active on LinkedIn and her website: KatieAllenconsulting.com
Encourages contact via direct messaging
Future engagements and podcast guest invitations
Closing Remarks by Joanne Lockwood
Gratitude to listeners
Encouragement to subscribe to the podcast
Invitation for listener feedback via email
Themes of Inclusion and Cultural Intelligence
Empathy and Understanding in Inclusion
Importance of cultural intelligence
Understanding patriarchal system impacts
Empathy gaps in gender and racial understanding
Storytelling and Awareness
Power of storytelling in bridging understanding gaps
Reflection on inclusion and diversity discussions
Personal Mission for Inclusion Advocacy
Katie Allen’s mission for curiosity and acceptance
Rejecting perfectionism in societal norms
By breaking down the content into these segments and sub-topics, the sequence and comprehensive nature of the podcast episode "Talking Not Telling" are clearly outlined.
The Hook
"Have you ever wondered how your words might HURT more than you think? It's not about intention... it's about IMPACT. Ready to challenge your everyday language and create REAL change?"
"Think your well-meaning words are harmless? Think again. Discover how UNINTENDED consequences can still leave a mark... and what you can do to avoid it. Intrigued yet?"
"Why should you CARE about the words you use? Because changing just a few phrases could be the key to unlocking true INCLUSIVITY in your life and work. Curious to learn how?"
"Can you imagine if your everyday language carried hidden BIASES you never knew? It's time to EXPLORE the power of words and how they shape our world. Want to join the conversation?"
"What's the REAL impact of the words you choose? Discover how small shifts in language can make a BIG difference in fostering connection and understanding. Ready to transform your communication?"
🎬 Reel script
Welcome to "Inclusion Bites". In our latest episode, "Talking Not Telling," we dive into the power of language and intention. Joined by Katie Allen, we explore how good intentions don't negate harm, and why accountability for our words is essential for inclusivity. We unpack the impact of loaded terms, discuss the evolving nature of language, and emphasize the importance of respectful dialogue. From asexuality to allyship, Katie shares her lived experiences, urging leaders to engage thoughtfully with diverse perspectives. Tune in now for insights that will transform your approach to inclusive conversations. Listen at seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites.
🗞️ Newsletter
Subject: Celebrating Impactful Conversations on Inclusion Bites
Dear Inclusion Bites Community,
We are thrilled to bring you the latest episode of the Inclusion Bites Podcast, Talking Not Telling, featuring the illuminating Katie Allen, Confidence Coach & Inclusion Consultant. This week's conversation delves into the nuances of language, identity, inclusion, and the power of genuine dialogue.
🔍 Episode Highlights:
1. Intention vs. Impact:
Katie Allen shares a thought-provoking analogy of a broken arm to illustrate how good intentions can still lead to unintended harm. Joanne Lockwood emphasises the importance of accountability and how changing one's language to avoid harm is a cost-free yet impactful act. Both speakers discuss the resistance to modifying language and its dismissive categorisation as "overly sensitive" or "snowflake" issues.
2. Language and Identity:
The evolution and complexity of language are dissected, with a focus on respecting individuals' preferences. Katie passionately advocates for using comprehensive terms like LGBTQIA+ and being mindful of potentially loaded terms like "queer," ensuring that everyone feels included and respected.
3. Asexuality and Relationships:
Katie Allen candidly shares her experiences as an asexual person, dispelling common misconceptions and explaining the nuanced distinctions between sexual attraction, pleasure, and libido. She discusses the dynamics of her relationship with a straight partner, challenging stereotypes and highlighting the importance of non-sexual connections.
4. The Power of Conversation:
Highlighting the importance of storytelling from lived experiences, Katie and Joanne delve into how emotions act as data that can reveal personal biases. They advocate for open, honest conversations that bridge gaps between diverse viewpoints, enhancing empathy and understanding.
5. Challenging Echo Chambers:
Katie discusses the role of social media algorithms in reinforcing echo chambers and urges listeners to seek out diverse voices and experiences. Through media references such as "Love is Blind," "Heartstopper," and her personal journey, she underscores the crucial impact of diverse representation.
👥 Engaging with the Community:
Joanne Lockwood invites you to share your thoughts and stories by reaching out via email at jo@seechangehappen.co.uk. Your insights are invaluable to fostering an inclusive community.
🌐 Connect with Katie:
Katie Allen is most active on LinkedIn and can be found under "Katie Allen Consulting." Visit her website at KatieAllenConsulting.com for more information and don't hesitate to slide into her DMs for a conversation!
➡️ Tune In:
Catch the full episode of Talking Not Telling on Inclusion Bites.
Thank you for being a part of our community dedicated to driving positive change through inclusive conversations. Stay tuned for more insightful episodes and continue to champion inclusivity in all aspects of life.
Warm regards,
The Inclusion Bites Team
Follow us on social media: #InclusionBites #PositivePeopleExperiences
🧵 Tweet thread
🧵 [Thread Alert] Unpacking Good Intentions, Language Sensitivity & Inclusion 🌍
1/15 🎙️ On the recent episode of #InclusionBites, @JoLockwood1965 dives deep with Katie Allen into why good intentions don't always prevent harm and the crucial role of language in shaping inclusive cultures. Here’s the gist! ⬇️
2/15 🛠️ Katie Allen uses a broken arm analogy: You can have the best intentions, but if you accidentally break someone's arm, it still hurts. The same goes for our words and actions—they have real impacts, intentional or not.
3/15 💬 @JoLockwood1965 tackles the concept of accountability. Changing our language to avoid harm is cost-free, yet some resist, dismissing concerns as "overly sensitive" or "snowflake" issues. Why the pushback against being considerate?
4/15 🔄 Katie agrees, emphasising that our choice of language can evolve to benefit everyone. Much like sales tactics, adapting terminology can improve outcomes and avoid unnecessary offence.
5/15 🌍 Phrases we use daily often carry colonial, racist, or ableist connotations. Joanne calls for increased awareness and reflection on our language habits. Are we inadvertently perpetuating harm?
6/15 📖 Katie underlines that language is ever-evolving. Rather than clinging to rigid dictionary definitions, we should respect individual preferences, like using gender-neutral pronouns.
7/15 🌈 The topic of language sensitivity has a spectrum of opinions. Joanne asks, why should people care? Katie counters that even if you’re not personally offended, understanding and adapting your language makes you a more effective and inclusive communicator.
8/15 📢 Leaders take note! Katie highlights the need for leaders to foster inclusivity through their language and actions. Want to connect with diverse groups? It starts with listening and adjusting.
9/15 🌐 Katie Allen can be found sharing more insights on LinkedIn (Katie Allen/Katie Allen Consulting) and at KatieAllenConsulting.com. She’s open to direct messages for more in-depth conversations. #Allyship
10/15 😂 Ever heard of "sliding into DMs"? Joanne playfully reassures listeners it's all about fostering constructive dialogue, not inappropriate messages. Engage, ask questions, and learn!
11/15 📣 Joanne wraps up the episode with a heartfelt thanks to listeners. Don't forget to subscribe to the "Inclusion Bites" podcast for more thought-provoking chats: [Link: https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen] #ListenNow
12/15 ✍️ Joanne welcomes your thoughts and stories. Reach out via email at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk and be part of the conversation.
13/15 ⚖️ Joanne and Katie explore how patriarchal systems harm both men and women. Adjusting our narratives about masculinity and inclusion benefits everyone. Why resist progress that's truly inclusive?
14/15 🌟 Katie advocates for using social media thoughtfully. Break out of echo chambers, seek diverse voices, and challenge your biases. It's on us to make social media a force for good.
15/15 🔔 Looking for real talks that challenge norms and inspire change? Tune into #InclusionBites with @JoLockwood1965. Get enlightened, one bold conversation at a time. Subscribe, share, and act! #Inclusion #Belonging #LanguageMatters
Retweet and join the conversation! Your words can make a difference. 💬💥 #InclusiveLanguage #DiversityMatters #Accountability #Leadership
Guest's content for their marketing
Title: My Enlightening Experience as a Guest on the "Inclusion Bites" Podcast
As someone deeply passionate about promoting inclusivity and fostering genuine connections, I was thrilled to join Joanne Lockwood on the Inclusion Bites Podcast. This enlightening discussion offered a platform to share insights, challenge norms, and reflect on our roles in nurturing a more inclusive society.
During our conversation, we delved into the intricate dynamics between intention and impact. Using the analogy of a broken arm, I highlighted how good intentions do not always negate the potential harm caused by our actions. It’s crucial to acknowledge this, especially in our interactions where language plays a pivotal role.
We discussed the weight of our words and how adjusting our language to avoid harm is a simple yet powerful shift. Joanne and I addressed the often-dismissed concerns about language sensitivity, clarifying that adapting one's terminology can lead to personal benefit and prevent offence, much like sales language is tailored for better outcomes.
One of the key discussions was around the evolving nature of language. I emphasised the importance of being open to change rather than rigidly adhering to dictionary definitions. Respecting individuals' preferences, such as using gender-neutral pronouns, fosters inclusivity and shows that we value their identity and experience.
We touched upon my asexuality, an often misunderstood aspect of the LGBTQIA+ community. I clarified common misconceptions, explaining that asexuality means not experiencing sexual attraction, but it doesn’t necessarily equate to a lack of sexual activity or libido. By sharing my personal journey, I aimed to shed light on the diverse experiences within the asexual community.
Our conversation also explored the psychological phenomena that influence our understanding of identity and inclusion. I spoke about the empathy bridge—how we often fail to recognise others' lived experiences due to a lack of understanding. Joanne and I agreed on the importance of storytelling in bridging these gaps, advocating for leaders to engage genuinely with issues such as anti-racism and trans awareness.
We also discussed the role of social media in reinforcing echo chambers and the resulting polarisation. While acknowledging these challenges, I pointed out the potential of social media as a force for good when consumed thoughtfully, aiming to engage in conversations that broaden perspectives and foster understanding.
Inclusion isn’t about perfection; it’s about authenticity. Through open and honest dialogues, we can create spaces where everyone feels seen and valued. My mission is to spread a message of curiosity and acceptance, encouraging others to engage in these crucial conversations.
I invite you to listen to this episode of the Inclusion Bites Podcast. It’s not just a conversation; it’s a call to action for anyone committed to driving positive change. Let's continue to challenge ourselves, embrace uncomfortable conversations, and build a more inclusive world together.
You can find the episode on Joanne’s website at Inclusion Bites Listen. If you’d like to connect with me directly, feel free to reach out via LinkedIn or visit my website at KatieAllenconsulting.com. Let's keep the conversation going!
#InclusionBites #InclusivityMatters #LanguageSensitivity #AsexualityAwareness #PositiveChange
Pain Points and Challenges
Pain Points and Challenges Addressed in the Podcast Episode "Talking Not Telling"
Intent vs. Impact Misalignment
Challenge: Good intentions are not sufficient to mitigate the harm caused by actions, as illustrated by Katie Allen's broken arm analogy.
Solution: Enhance awareness and accountability by considering the impact of words and actions on others, even when intentions are benign.
Resistance to Language Modification
Challenge: Resistance to changing harmful language, often dismissed as "snowflake" issues.
Solution: Acknowledge that modifying language to avoid harm is cost-free and can significantly improve inclusivity. Promote understanding that this resistance often stems from a lack of empathy and awareness.
Evolving Nature of Language
Challenge: People cling to outdated dictionary definitions rather than adapting to evolving language that respects individuals' identities.
Solution: Encourage openness to linguistic evolution and respect for personal preferences, such as gender-neutral pronouns.
Barriers in Leadership Approaches
Challenge: Leaders surrounded by similar individuals lack diverse frames of reference, leading to difficulty in discussing challenging topics like racism and inclusion.
Solution: Promote psychological safety in workplaces to allow open discussions about difficult topics. Provide leaders with tools and knowledge to engage more effectively with diverse groups.
Fear of Being Wrong
Challenge: Fear of saying the wrong thing or being perceived as incorrect, which leads to silence and inaction.
Solution: Foster an environment where people understand that making mistakes is part of learning. Emphasise the value of intent over perfection and create spaces for constructive conversations.
Echo Chambers and Lack of Diverse Perspectives
Challenge: Social media algorithms reinforce existing beliefs, exacerbating divisions and limiting exposure to diverse viewpoints.
Solution: Actively seek out and engage with different voices and experiences. Advocate for a broader perspective by following diverse narratives and challenging personal biases.
Inclusivity in Terminology Use
Challenge: Not everyone resonates with terms like "queer," which can exclude individuals inadvertently.
Solution: Use inclusive terms such as LGBTQIA+ carefully and with permission. Respect individuals' identities and preferences while fostering inclusivity.
Misunderstandings Around Asexuality
Challenge: Common misconceptions about asexuality, often equating it with a lack of sexual activity or libido.
Solution: Clarify the distinctions between sexual attraction, pleasure, and libido. Promote a deeper understanding of asexuality through education and personal storytelling.
Content Focused on Addressing These Issues
Understanding and Bridging the Intent vs. Impact Gap
Intentions can be positive, but their impact might still be harmful. By becoming more mindful of our actions and words, we can bridge this gap. Here are tips for fostering accountability:
Reflect on the potential impacts of your actions or words before speaking or acting.
Offer sincere apologies and make amends when unintentional harm occurs.
Embracing Language Evolution for Inclusivity
Changing our language is a small yet powerful way to promote inclusivity. Here's how you can start:
Be open to learning new terms and phrases that respect people's identities.
Practice using gender-neutral pronouns and other inclusive language in everyday conversations.
Educate yourself on the historical and societal implications of certain phrases and avoid those with harmful connotations.
Leadership and Diversity: Building Diverse Frames of Reference
Leaders play a crucial role in fostering inclusive environments. Address these common barriers:
Actively diversify your social and professional circles.
Create a culture of psychological safety where all team members feel comfortable discussing challenging topics.
Invest in ongoing diversity and inclusion training for continuous learning.
Overcoming the Fear of Being Wrong
Fear of making mistakes should not hinder progress in inclusivity. Here’s how to move past this fear:
Understand that mistakes are part of the learning process.
Create environments where constructive feedback is encouraged and accepted.
Focus on the intention behind your actions rather than striving for perfection.
Breaking Out of Echo Chambers
It's essential to expose ourselves to diverse perspectives to avoid echo chambers. Try these strategies:
Follow social media accounts that offer different viewpoints from your own.
Engage in conversations with individuals from diverse backgrounds.
Consume media that challenges your beliefs and expands your understanding.
Using Inclusive Terminology Thoughtfully
Terminology is critical in fostering inclusivity. Here’s how to navigate its complexity:
Use comprehensive terms like LGBTQIA+ to ensure all individuals feel included.
Seek permission before using potentially loaded terms like "queer."
Respect and adapt to individuals' preferences regarding their identities.
Educating on Asexuality
Asexuality is often misunderstood. Help clear up misconceptions with these points:
Asexuality involves not experiencing sexual attraction, but it does not equate to a lack of sexual activity or libido.
Understand the distinctions between sexual attraction, pleasure, and libido.
Share diverse stories from the asexual community to increase awareness and understanding.
Conclusion
By addressing these pain points and challenges, we can take significant steps toward fostering a more inclusive and understanding society. Remember, small changes in awareness and language can lead to impactful positive outcomes. Engage, listen, and learn—these are the foundations of true inclusivity.
For more in-depth conversations and insights, tune into the Inclusion Bites Podcast with Joanne Lockwood.
Questions Asked that were insightful
Absolutely, turning key questions and answers from the episode into a series of FAQs would be highly beneficial for our audience. Here are some particularly insightful exchanges that could be adapted:
FAQ Series: "Talking Not Telling" with Katie Allen
Why should we be mindful of our language if our intentions are good?
Katie Allen: Good intentions do not negate the potential for harm. For instance, if you accidentally break someone's arm, your intention wasn't to harm them, but the impact remains. Therefore, it's crucial to consider how our words affect others, regardless of our intentions.
How does changing language contribute to inclusivity?
Joanne Lockwood: Changing our language costs nothing but can significantly reduce harm. Resistance to modifying language often comes from dismissing concerns as overly sensitive or "snowflake" issues. However, thoughtful language can foster a more inclusive environment.
What is the significance of using comprehensive terms like LGBTQIA+?
Katie Allen: Specific terms like LGBTQIA+ ensure everyone feels included and recognised. While some prefer broader terms like "queer," it's essential to use language that respects individual preferences and identities.
Why is it important to understand and adjust language, even for those who don't feel directly affected?
Katie Allen: Adjusting language enhances communication and inclusivity, which is vital for anyone, especially leaders who aim to engage effectively with diverse groups. It's about creating a welcoming environment for everyone.
Can you explain the concept of 'intention vs. impact' with an example?
Katie Allen: Suppose someone unintentionally says something offensive. Their intention wasn't to hurt, but the impact on the receiver can still be negative. It's essential to acknowledge and address the impact, even if the intention was benign.
How can leaders effectively engage in conversations about difficult topics like racism or trans awareness?
Katie Allen: Leaders should create psychologically safe spaces for open dialogue. It's about being willing to have uncomfortable conversations and understanding diverse perspectives to drive meaningful change.
How do open conversations improve personal relationships, particularly in the context of asexuality?
Katie Allen: Honest conversations help partners understand each other's identities better. For example, explaining what asexuality means can dispel misconceptions and strengthen the relationship by fostering mutual respect and understanding.
Why is the term "queer" used by some and avoided by others?
Joanne Lockwood: I prefer "queer" as an inclusive term that avoids leaving people out. However, it's essential to acknowledge that some individuals may feel uncomfortable with this term due to its history, and we should respect their preferences.
What role do allies play in fostering inclusivity?
Katie Allen: Genuine allyship involves using one's privilege to engage in difficult conversations and advance inclusivity for those less affected by certain issues. Leaders have a particular responsibility to act as allies in contexts like anti-racism and trans awareness.
How can media representation influence societal understanding of LGBTQIA issues?
Katie Allen: Positive media representation can profoundly impact understanding and acceptance. Shows like "Heartstopper" highlight LGBTQIA experiences, helping to dismantle stereotypes and foster empathy.
By transforming these questions and answers into an FAQ series, we provide our audience with accessible insights drawn from the episode, reinforcing key concepts of inclusivity and thoughtful conversation. Each question captures the essence of our discussion and offers practical takeaways to enhance their understanding and application of inclusive practices.
Blog article based on the episode
Embracing Language Sensitivity: Elevating Our Conversations for Inclusive Growth
Imagine breaking your arm. Now, consider how it feels when someone unintentionally nudges it. Their good intentions don't alleviate your pain, do they? This analogy brilliantly gifted to us by Katie Allen in the latest episode of "Inclusion Bites" highlights a critical issue often overlooked in our daily interactions: the unintended harm our words can cause. In this episode, aptly titled "Talking Not Telling," Katie Allen joins host Joanne Lockwood to unravel the intricate layers of language sensitivity and its impact on fostering inclusivity.
The Challenge of Language Sensitivity
In any dialogue about inclusivity, the weight of words often gets downplayed. Many argue that altering their language is akin to coddling overly sensitive individuals. Joanne Lockwood eloquently counters this by pointing out that adapting our language to avoid harm is a cost-free endeavour. So, why the resistance?
Katie offers an insightful perspective: our language is deeply ingrained, handed down through generations, brimming with colonial, racist, or ableist undertones. Challenging these ingrained habits can be an uphill battle, but a necessary one if we aim to build truly inclusive environments.
Intention vs. Impact
Reflecting on why people hesitate to modify their language, Katie underscores the dichotomy between intention and impact. Imagine intending to amuse someone with a joke but ending up offending them. Your intention might have been harmless, but the impact wasn't. Joanne emphasises the importance of accountability, echoing that good intentions don’t shield us from the consequences of our words.
The resistance to change often stems from a perception that we're being policed. Katie and Joanne dispel this myth, advocating for a shift in mindset. They suggest viewing language adaptation not as restriction but as empowerment — an avenue to improve communication and inclusivity.
Practical Steps Towards Language Sensitivity
How can we, as individuals and leaders, embrace language sensitivity and transform our interactions? Here are actionable steps inspired by the insightful dialogue between Joanne and Katie:
Self-Education: Begin by educating yourself about the problematic aspects of certain words and phrases. Books, podcasts, and workshops on diversity and inclusion can be excellent resources.
Listen and Reflect: Actively listen to feedback about your language. Reflect on why certain terms might be offensive and consider how you can adjust your vocabulary accordingly.
Embrace Change: Language is ever-evolving. Be open to adapting your vocabulary. For example, opting for gender-neutral pronouns can make a significant difference in making others feel respected and included.
Seek Permission: Katie advises obtaining permission when using potentially loaded terms like "queer". Although she and Joanne find "queer" inclusive, they acknowledge that it might not resonate with everyone.
Lead by Example: Leaders should model language sensitivity, demonstrating its importance in creating inclusive cultures. This not only benefits personal relationships but also enhances engagement with diverse teams.
The Role of Allies and Leaders
Joanne and Katie explore the role of allies in promoting inclusive language. Genuine allyship involves using privilege to advocate for those marginalised. This includes engaging in uncomfortable conversations around issues like racism and trans awareness.
Katie highlights the responsibility of leaders to foster psychological safety, allowing for open discussions on difficult topics. She argues that leaders who shy away from these conversations are ill-equipped to implement effective inclusion strategies. Joanne adds that understanding 'why' people hold certain beliefs is crucial, rather than debating the 'what.'
Expanding Our Perspectives
In a media landscape rife with echo chambers, Joanne and Katie advocate for broadening our perspectives. Engaging with diverse voices can challenge personal biases and enrich our understanding. Katie references impactful media portrayals, such as "Heartstopper," emphasising the importance of positive representation in shaping our views on identity and inclusion.
Katie also shares personal anecdotes highlighting the gap — the "empathy bridge" — in recognising others' lived experiences. This includes her journey as an asexual, panromantic individual and the misconceptions surrounding asexuality. Her transparency underscores the value of storytelling in bridging understanding.
Authenticity in Relationships
A powerful segment of the episode revolves around authenticity within relationships. Both Joanne and Katie stress the importance of open, honest conversations in fostering genuine connections. Katie discusses her experience explaining her asexuality to her straight partner, highlighting the importance of maintaining one's identity in a relationship.
Joanne shares her journey with her wife post-transition, illustrating how deeper communication strengthened their bond. These stories remind us that embracing imperfections and authenticity can transform not only personal relationships but also our broader societal interactions.
Call to Action
The conversation between Joanne and Katie is a clarion call to action. As they conclude, Joanne encourages listeners to subscribe to "Inclusion Bites" and share their thoughts, continuing the dialogue. Katie invites everyone to connect with her via LinkedIn or her website, katieallenconsulting.com, reinforcing the importance of ongoing conversations in advancing inclusivity.
In embracing language sensitivity, we step closer to a world where every individual feels seen, heard, and respected. It's not about policing language but about recognising the power our words hold in shaping experiences. So, tune into "Inclusion Bites", engage with the resources available, and start making those small yet impactful changes in your conversations. Because every word counts, and together, we can create a more inclusive world, one conversation at a time.
For further inspiration and to continue this vital conversation, be sure to catch the full episode, "Talking Not Telling," featuring Katie Allen on "Inclusion Bites". Join us in fostering environments where everyone feels included and valued.
The standout line from this episode
"Good intentions don't erase the impact of our actions; just because you didn't mean to break someone's arm doesn't mean it doesn't hurt."
❓ Questions
Certainly! Here are ten discussion questions inspired by the episode "Talking Not Telling" featuring Joanne Lockwood and Katie Allen:
Intention vs. Impact: Katie Allen highlights that good intentions do not negate potential harm. Have you ever experienced or witnessed a situation where someone’s well-meaning actions caused unintended harm? How was it addressed?
Language Sensitivity: Joanne Lockwood suggests that changing language costs nothing but can prevent harm. Why do you think some people resist modifying their language in the name of sensitivity and inclusivity?
Sales and Communication: Katie Allen compares using inclusive language to terminology in sales, aiming for better outcomes. Can you think of instances where adjusting your language led to more positive results in personal or professional settings?
Evolving Language: Katie Allen speaks about the evolving nature of language and the significance of respecting individuals' preferences, such as using gender-neutral pronouns. How can linguistic flexibility contribute to a more inclusive society?
Inclusion Challenges: Both Joanne and Katie touch upon the challenges leaders face involving limited frames of reference and the need for psychological safety to discuss difficult topics like racism. How can organisations create safer spaces for such conversations?
Queer Terminology: There’s a discussion on the term "queer" and varying comfort levels within the LGBTQIA+ community. Why is it crucial to obtain permission when identifying someone with potentially loaded terms?
Asexuality: Katie Allen explains common misconceptions about asexuality. How can increasing awareness and understanding of asexuality among the broader public contribute to more inclusive environments?
Allyship: Katie emphasises the role of allies in engaging in difficult conversations. What are some effective strategies for allies to use their privilege in support of marginalised groups?
Echo Chambers: The episode discusses the role of social media algorithms in creating echo chambers. How can individuals actively seek out diverse voices and experiences to challenge their personal biases?
Media Representation: Katie references how media portrayals in shows like "Heartstopper" and "Grey's Anatomy" impact societal conversations about LGBTQIA+ identities and racial profiling. What role do you believe media representation plays in shaping public understanding of inclusion and diversity?
These questions should stimulate thoughtful dialogue and reflection based on the themes discussed in the episode.
FAQs from the Episode
FAQ: Understanding Language Sensitivity and Inclusion in Identity
Q1: What is the main takeaway from Katie Allen's broken arm analogy?
A1: Katie Allen's broken arm analogy explains that good intentions do not negate the harm caused by one's actions. Just as saying "I didn’t mean to" doesn’t heal a broken arm, unintended consequences of our words and actions can't be overlooked simply because we didn't intend harm. This underscores the importance of considering the impact of our behaviour on others.
Q2: Why does Joanne Lockwood emphasise accountability in language use?
A2: Joanne Lockwood stresses that choosing words carefully to avoid harm is effortless and reflects respect for others. She criticises resistance to changing harmful language as dismissive of others' valid concerns, often labelled as "snowflake" issues, and advocates for a more considerate approach.
Q3: How can adapting language benefit personal and professional interactions?
A3: Katie Allen believes that language can be tailored to both avoid offence and enhance communication efficiency, akin to terminology use in sales. This adaptive use of language is particularly crucial for leaders aiming to engage diverse groups effectively, fostering an inclusive atmosphere.
Q4: How does language carry connotations of prejudice, and why is awareness important?
A4: Joanne Lockwood explains that everyday phrases can harbour colonial, racist, or ableist connotations. Awareness and reflection on our language help us challenge ingrained biases and promote a more inclusive communication style that respects all individuals.
Q5: What are Katie Allen's views on evolving language and respect for preferences?
A5: Katie Allen emphasises that language is dynamic and should adapt to reflect current understanding and respect for individuals' preferences, such as using gender-neutral pronouns. Clinging to outdated dictionary definitions often disregards the evolving needs of communities.
Q6: Why should people care about language sensitivity, even if they aren't personally affected?
A6: Katie Allen argues that while someone may not feel impacted by insensitive language, adapting one's language promotes better communication and inclusivity. Understanding different perspectives helps build stronger connections, particularly important for leaders.
Q7: What is the significance of the term "queer" and why is it controversial?
A7: Joanne Lockwood prefers "queer" as an inclusive term, yet it remains controversial within the community. Both Joanne and Katie Allen emphasise the need for careful use and permission when applying potentially loaded terms like "queer," recognising that individuals may have varied comfort levels.
Q8: How does Katie Allen describe asexuality and its misconceptions?
A8: Katie Allen explains that asexuality involves the absence of sexual attraction but doesn't necessarily mean a lack of sexual activity or libido. She differentiates between sexual attraction, pleasure, and libido, sharing her identity as panromantic to highlight emotional and intellectual connections over sexual ones.
Q9: Why is storytelling important in discussions about inclusion?
A9: Storytelling allows individuals to share lived experiences, fostering understanding and reflection. Katie Allen emphasises the power of stories to bridge empathy gaps and promote learning, essential for individuals and leaders aiming to enhance their cultural intelligence.
Q10: How does social media impact conversations around inclusion?
A10: Katie Allen notes that while social media often reinforces echo chambers, it also holds potential for positive dialogue if consumed thoughtfully. Engaging with diverse voices and perspectives on social media can challenge biases and improve understanding.
Q11: What relationship dynamics did Katie Allen discuss regarding her asexuality?
A11: Katie Allen shares her experience explaining her asexual identity to her straight, cisgender partner, focusing on maintaining individual identities within the relationship. Joanne Lockwood adds her own journey post-transition, discussing deeper communication and mutual understanding.
Q12: How can leaders engage effectively with difficult conversations on inclusion?
A12: Leaders must be willing to engage in uncomfortable conversations to implement successful inclusion strategies. Katie Allen argues for psychological safety and open dialogues to discuss challenging topics like racism, fostering a more inclusive workplace culture.
Q13: Where can listeners find more of Katie Allen’s work and engage with her?
A13: Listeners can connect with Katie Allen on LinkedIn under "Katie Allen" or "Katie Allen Consulting," visit her website at KatieAllenconsulting.com, and contact her via direct messaging for further conversations.
Tell me more about the guest and their views
In this episode of the Inclusion Bites Podcast, titled "Talking Not Telling," host Joanne Lockwood is joined by Katie Allen. Katie is a confidence coach and inclusion consultant with a strong presence on LinkedIn and a website under KatieAllenconsulting.com. Katie brings a rich background in guiding conversations around identity, language, and inclusion.
Katie Allen offers a nuanced perspective on several key issues:
Language and Impact: Katie underscores the importance of understanding that good intentions do not necessarily negate the harm caused by one’s words or actions. She uses a compelling "broken arm" analogy to illustrate unintended consequences. She agrees with Joanne's assertion that changing one’s language to avoid harm is a simple yet significant form of respect.
Language Evolution and Sensitivity: Katie is a firm advocate for the evolving nature of language. She points out the limitations of clinging to dictionary definitions and stresses the importance of respecting individuals' language preferences, including the use of gender-neutral pronouns. She also shares her cautious approach to using terms like LGBTQIA, advising listeners to ensure that such terms resonate with the individuals being described.
Asexuality and Personal Identity: Katie provides an insightful discussion on asexuality, clarifying common misconceptions. She explains that asexuality involves not experiencing sexual attraction, though this doesn't necessarily mean an absence of sexual activity or libido. Besides, she identifies as panromantic, emphasising emotional and intellectual connections over sexual attraction. Katie's personal narrative includes being in a relationship with a straight man, which helps challenge stereotypes around asexuality.
Engaging in Inclusive Conversations: Katie champions the concept of engaging in conversations where different viewpoints are shared without the immediate goal of changing opinions. She values storytelling from lived experiences, seeing it as a powerful learning tool. Emotions, for her, serve as data to be explored, often indicating challenges to personal values or beliefs. She underscores the need for leaders to engage in these dialogue-driven approaches to foster inclusivity.
Allyship and Cultural Intelligence: The conversation also delves into the role of allies and the importance of genuine allyship. Katie stresses the responsibility leaders have to be allies, particularly in areas such as anti-racism and trans awareness. She advocates for approaching cultural intelligence with an open mind and embracing diverse lived experiences.
Social Media and Echo Chambers: Reflecting on the role of social media, Katie highlights how algorithms often reinforce users' existing views. She encourages seeking out diverse voices and experiences to challenge personal biases. Despite potential drawbacks, Katie sees social media as a powerful tool for good if engaged with thoughtfully.
Katie Allen believes in the power of open conversations and authenticity. She aims to inspire acceptance and curiosity, rejecting perfectionism. She embraces the complexities of identity and relationships, pushing for a societal shift towards deeper understanding and genuine connections. Her mission is to foster spaces where diverse perspectives can be shared, understood, and respected.
In essence, Katie Allen’s views encapsulate a commitment to continuous learning, dialogue, and respect for individual experiences. Her dedication to inclusive practices emphasises the importance of being open to change and prioritising the impact of our actions and words on those around us.
Ideas for Future Training and Workshops based on this Episode
Certainly! Based on the rich discussion between Joanne Lockwood and Katie Allen in the "Talking Not Telling" episode, here are some ideas for future training and workshops:
1. Intention vs. Impact: Navigating Conversations with Sensitivity
Objective: Understand the difference between intention and impact and learn how to navigate conversations without causing harm.
Activities:
Case studies and role-playing to analyse real-life scenarios.
Small group discussions on personal experiences of unintended consequences.
Practices on giving and receiving feedback constructively.
2. Language Sensitivity and Cultural Intelligence
Objective: Develop awareness and skills to use inclusive and culturally sensitive language.
Activities:
Deep dives into the historical context and connotations of everyday phrases.
Workshops on the evolving nature of language, including gender-neutral pronouns.
Interactive sessions to create personal lexicons of inclusive language.
3. Understanding Asexuality and Beyond: Exploring Sexual and Romantic Identities
Objective: Provide a comprehensive understanding of asexuality and other lesser-known sexual and romantic identities.
Activities:
Panel discussions with individuals from various sexual and romantic identities.
Storytelling sessions to share lived experiences.
Debunking myths and misconceptions through Q&A and open forums.
4. Allyship and Leadership: Advancing Inclusion in the Workplace
Objective: Equip leaders with the tools and understanding to become effective allies.
Activities:
Workshops on recognising and using privilege responsibly.
Scenario-based exercises to practice addressing inequality and fostering inclusion.
Peer discussions and reflections on personal biases and growth.
5. From Silence to Dialogue: Creating Psychologically Safe Spaces
Objective: Encourage open, honest, and inclusive conversations in the workplace.
Activities:
Training on active listening and empathy.
Development of guidelines and best practices for inclusive conversation.
Simulation exercises to manage difficult conversations effectively.
6. Harnessing the Power of Storytelling for Inclusion
Objective: Use storytelling as a tool to promote understanding and bridge gaps in experiences.
Activities:
Workshops on crafting compelling personal narratives that highlight inclusion challenges.
Story-sharing sessions to foster empathy and awareness.
Techniques for leaders to incorporate storytelling into their communication strategies.
7. Beyond the Binary: Understanding Gender Fluidity and Non-conformity
Objective: Increase understanding of gender diversity, including non-binary and gender-fluid identities.
Activities:
Educational sessions on gender theory and terminology.
Interactive workshops to discuss and challenge gender norms.
Supportive discussions for LGBTQIA+ individuals to share their experiences.
8. Breaking Down Echo Chambers: Encouraging Diverse Perspectives
Objective: Promote the integration of diverse voices and perspectives to counteract echo chambers.
Activities:
Critical analysis of social media algorithms and their impact.
Group activities to explore and engage with diverse viewpoints.
Facilitated debates on contentious issues to foster mutual understanding.
9. Building Empathy Bridges: Enhancing Cultural and Emotional Intelligence
Objective: Develop stronger empathy and cultural intelligence skills among participants.
Activities:
Case studies examining the lived experiences of different cultural and social groups.
Interactive empathy exercises and perspective-taking activities.
Sessions on recognising and mitigating unconscious biases.
10. Practical Inclusion: Implementing Inclusive Practices in Daily Operations
Objective: Translate inclusive values into everyday practices within the workplace.
Activities:
Workshops on strategies for inclusive hiring, onboarding, and team-building.
Case studies on successful inclusion initiatives.
Interactive sessions to design action plans tailored to participants' organisations.
These training sessions and workshops would not only advance understanding and empathy but also equip participants with actionable tools to foster inclusive environments both in and out of the workplace.
🪡 Threads by Instagram
🌟 In our latest "Inclusion Bites" episode, Katie Allen and I explore the power of language. Good intentions can't erase harm. How often do we reflect on our words and their impact? Listen in and join us on this journey to mindful communication! 🎧👂
💬 "Talking, Not Telling" dives into the complexities of language and identity. Katie Allen and I discuss using gender-neutral pronouns and respecting personal preferences. How adaptable is your language to promote inclusivity? 🤔💡
🌐 Social media often reinforces echo chambers. Katie Allen highlights the need to seek diverse voices and challenge biases. Can stepping out of your comfort zone transform your perspective? Discover more on "Inclusion Bites!" 📲👥
🏳️🌈 Expanding our understanding of asexuality, Katie Allen shares her journey, debunking myths and embracing emotional connections. How well do you know the diverse experiences within the LGBTQIA+ community? Tune in for an insightful chat! 🌈❤
🗣️ "Inclusion Bites" brings you face-to-face with the real challenges of making inclusive change. Katie Allen advocates for open, honest dialogues without fear of being wrong. Ready to grow through conversation? Let's talk and listen deeper! 🌟🎙️
Leadership Insights - YouTube Short Video Script on Common Problems for Leaders to Address
[Title: Leadership Insights Channel - Episode 4: Bridging the Empathy Gap]
Hello and welcome to the Leadership Insights Channel. Today, we’re tackling a common problem faced by many leaders: the lack of empathy in understanding diverse experiences within their teams.
Firstly, the problem. Many leaders surround themselves with similar individuals, limiting their frames of reference. This can create an echo chamber effect and hinder genuine understanding of diversity.
Here’s what you can do to bridge that empathy gap:
1. Practice Active Listening. Take the time to genuinely listen to your team's diverse voices. Be fully present in conversations and show that you value their perspectives.
2. Embrace Psychological Safety. Create an environment where team members feel safe to share their thoughts and experiences without fear of judgment or retribution. This builds trust and openness.
3. Engage in Continuous Learning. Broaden your knowledge by attending inclusion workshops, reading books by diverse authors, and following thought leaders from various backgrounds. This will enhance your cultural intelligence.
By implementing these actions, you will develop a deeper understanding of your team's diverse experiences, fostering a more inclusive and dynamic working environment. Embrace the power of empathy, and watch your leadership approach transform for the better.
Thank you for tuning into the Leadership Insights Channel. If you found this helpful, don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more leadership tips.
See you next time!
SEO Optimised Titles
3 Ways Language Shapes Identity: Asexuality Misconceptions and Inclusion Practices | Katie Allen @Katie Allen Consulting
Breaking Down the Empathy Bridge: Inclusivity, Allyship, and Language Sensitivity | Katie Allen @Katie Allen Consulting
How Changing Your Language Can Build Better Connections in Diverse Teams | Katie Allen @Katie Allen Consulting
Email Newsletter about this Podcast Episode
Subject: 🗣️ Talking Not Telling: Must-Listen Episode of Inclusion Bites! 🎧
Hey there, Inclusion Bites Family!
We're back with another exciting episode of Inclusion Bites that's sure to spark some deep reflection and impactful conversation. 🌟
Warm Introduction
This week, our host Joanne Lockwood is joined by the incredible Katie Allen, a confidence coach and inclusion consultant who knows a thing or two about making a difference through dialogue. In this episode titled "Talking Not Telling," Joanne and Katie unpack the profound impacts our words can have and why we all need to be a bit more intentional with our language.
5 Keys That Listeners Will Learn
Intention vs. Impact: Katie uses a broken arm analogy to explain that good intentions don't erase the harm caused by unintended consequences.
Language Adaptability: Joanne shares that changing our language to avoid harm is cost-free and necessary, debunking the "snowflake" myth.
The Evolving Nature of Language: Katie emphasises that language should be fluid and respectful of individual preferences, like using gender-neutral pronouns.
Understanding Asexuality: Katie delves into her personal experiences as an asexual person, clarifying misconceptions and sharing her unique perspectives on attraction and relationships.
Empathy and Storytelling: Both Joanne and Katie stress the importance of listening to others' stories to bridge the empathy gap and improve inclusion.
A Unique Fact Shared from the Episode
Did you know that Joanne and her wife now describe themselves as a panromantic and bisexual couple following Joanne's gender transition? Their journey highlights the incredible power of open conversation in strengthening relationships and understanding one's identity.
Call to Action
Ready to dive into this transformative conversation? 🎙️ Listen to the full episode on our website here: Inclusion Bites Podcast. Don't forget to subscribe, share your thoughts, and start your own conversations about what you’ve learned! Also, Katie Allen invites you to connect with her on LinkedIn or via her website, KatieAllenconsulting.com, for an in-depth chat.
Strong Finish
Thank you for being part of our Inclusion Bites community. We're committed to fostering meaningful discussions that drive positive change. Together, we can make the world a more inclusive and understanding place—one conversation at a time. 💬✨
Stay curious, stay kind, and keep talking, not just telling.
Best wishes,
The Inclusion Bites Team
P.S. Got a story or thoughts to share? Reach out to Joanne at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk. We'd love to hear from you! 💌
Potted Summary
Introduction
In this episode of Inclusion Bites, "Talking Not Telling," host Joanne Lockwood and guest Katie Allen delve into the complexities of language, intention versus impact, and the nuanced experiences of asexuality. They tackle the importance of evolving our language to foster inclusion and the role of leaders in driving meaningful conversations. Katie also shares personal insights into asexuality, providing listeners with a deeper understanding of identity and relationships.
In this conversation we discuss
👉🏼 Language sensitivity
👉🏼 Asexual identity
👉🏼 Empathy gap
Here are a few of our favourite quotable moments
"Good intentions don’t negate the potential harm caused by one's actions." - Katie Allen
"Changing your language to avoid harming others is cost-free—and highly valuable." - Joanne Lockwood
"Empathy and listening are essential in bridging gaps and enhancing communication." - Katie Allen
Summary
Join us for a riveting episode of Inclusion Bites as Joanne Lockwood and Katie Allen tackle language sensitivity, asexual identity, and the empathy gap. Discover actionable insights and personal stories that challenge norms and foster inclusion. Tune into "Talking Not Telling" to enhance your understanding and drive meaningful change. Listen now at seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen.
LinkedIn Poll
LinkedIn Poll Question and Context
Poll Summary:
In the latest episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, titled "Talking Not Telling", host Joanne Lockwood engages with Katie Allen in a conversation about the power and responsibility of language in fostering inclusivity. They discussed how good intentions don't negate harm, the cost-free nature of changing language to avoid offence, and the importance of respecting individual preferences, like gender-neutral pronouns. The episode also delved into the evolving nature of language and its impact on identity, highlighting both challenges and opportunities in creating inclusive dialogues.
Poll Question:
💬 What's the biggest barrier to inclusive language? 🌈
Poll Options:
Lack of awareness 🌐
Resistance to change 🛑
Fear of mistakes 😬
Ingrained habits 🔄
Closing Why Vote:
By participating in this poll, you're helping to shed light on the common challenges we face in fostering a more inclusive society. Your input can drive meaningful conversations and actions towards a more understanding and connected community.
🗳️ Vote now and make your voice heard! 🗳️ #InclusionBites #InclusiveLanguage #Belonging #DiversityMatters
Highlight the Importance of this topic on LinkedIn
🌟 Inclusive Language and Accountability: Essential for Progress 🌟
As senior leaders, HR professionals, and EDI champions, the conversation around inclusive language is not just crucial—it's imperative. Listening to The Inclusion Bites Podcast episode with Joanne Lockwood and Katie Allen, titled "Talking Not Telling," I was reminded of the undeniable impact our words have on fostering belonging and inclusivity.
🗣️ Key Takeaways:
Good Intentions vs. Real Impact: Even well-meaning actions can cause harm. Joanne's analogy of a fractured arm vividly underscores this reality.
Language Adaptation: Katie compares the adaptability of language in inclusion to that in sales—tailoring our words can greatly enhance outcomes.
Evolving Linguistic Sensitivity: The evolving nature of language calls for our openness to change. Respecting terms and preferences, such as gender-neutral pronouns, signifies true inclusivity.
Communication in Identity: Katie's discussion of LGBTQIA+ terminology and the importance of obtaining consent when using terms like "queer" highlighted the nuances involved.
🔍 Why This Matters:
Language is not just about communication; it’s a tool for empowerment and inclusion. Every term we choose shapes the workplace culture and impacts our colleagues' experiences. As professionals dedicated to fostering inclusive environments, it's our responsibility to lead by example in meaningful, thoughtful communication.
Let's continue these conversations and ensure our workplaces are truly inclusive, diverse, and welcoming.
#InclusionBites #InclusiveLanguage #HR #EDI #Leadership #Belonging #JoanneLockwood #KatieAllen
L&D Insights
Insights for Senior Leaders, HR, and EDI Professionals
🎙️ Episode Title: Talking Not Telling
🎧 Podcast: The Inclusion Bites Podcast
🎙️ Host: Joanne Lockwood (she/her)
🎤 Guest: Katie Allen (she/her)
Key Insights and "Aha Moments"
Intentions vs. Impact: Katie Allen insightfully uses a broken arm analogy to illustrate that good intentions don't negate the harm caused by one's actions. An "aha moment" here is recognising that accountability for one's impact is crucial, regardless of the initial intent.
Fluidity of Language: Both Joanne and Katie stress the importance of evolving one's language to be more inclusive. This highlights the necessity for leaders to update their lexicon, emphasising that changing language to avoid harm is cost-free but invaluable.
Diversity of Experiences: The episode underscores the importance of understanding diverse perspectives, particularly around identity and asexuality. Katie’s personal experiences as an asexual and panromantic individual provide deep insights into the nuances of attraction beyond sexual desire.
Impact of Representation: The discussion about how media representation affects personal and societal understanding is significant. Katie mentions how shows like "Heartstopper" and "Grey's Anatomy" can challenge societal norms and offer genuine insight into LGBTQIA+ experiences.
Role of Empathy in Leadership: Both speakers highlight the role of empathy in leadership. Katie’s notion of the "empathy bridge" can be a transformative concept for leaders, encouraging them to fully engage with others' lived experiences.
Practical Changes for Implementation
Revise Language and Policies: Review and update organisational language and policies to reflect inclusivity. This includes being mindful of terms that may carry colonial, racist, or ableist connotations.
Create Open Dialogue Spaces: Establish safe spaces for employees to openly discuss sensitive issues without fear of repercussions. Encouraging dialogue rather than dictating terms can foster a healthier, inclusive work environment.
Active Allyship: Leaders must engage in genuine allyship. They should use their privilege to bring up difficult topics and support those more affected by societal biases.
Expand Reference Frames: Actively seek diverse viewpoints and experiences. Avoid echo chambers by engaging with content and voices outside your usual scope, leveraging social media thoughtfully to gain broader perspectives.
Empathy and Storytelling: Incorporate storytelling and case studies in training and development programmes to bridge gaps in understanding and build empathy across the organisation.
Social Media Ready Messages
📢 Episode "Talking Not Telling" on #InclusionBites offers game-changing insights for Senior Leaders, HR & EDI pros! 🏆 Understand the real impact of intentions, empathy in leadership, and evolving inclusive language. 🚀
🥇 "Aha Moment": Good intentions aren’t enough! Be accountable for your impact. #Leadership #HR #InclusiveLanguage
💬 Create safe spaces for open dialogue—transform your workplace into an inclusive haven. #InclusiveWorkplace #EDI #Diversity
🌈 Embrace diverse voices and broaden your perspective. Avoid echo chambers for real growth. #Empathy #LeadershipGrowth #DiversityMatters
🔄 Active allyship is key! Leaders, use your privilege to support those more affected. #Allyship #Leadership #InclusionMatters
✨ Discover these insights and more on "The Inclusion Bites Podcast". Listen now and transform your leadership approach. #InclusionBites #TransformativeLeadership #Podcast
Access the episode now: Inclusion Bites Podcast
#TheInclusionBites #LeadershipLessons #InclusiveCulture #DiversityInAction #TransformativeConversations
Shorts Video Script
Title: Why Language Matters in Inclusion Conversations #InclusionMatters #LanguageAwareness #ImpactOverIntention #InclusiveLeadership #StayConnected
Text on screen: 🌟 "Understanding the Impact of Our Words" 🌟
Hey everyone! Today, let's break down a crucial topic: the impact of our language and how it shapes inclusion.
Text on screen: 💭 "Good Intentions ≠ Good Impact" 💭
You may mean well, but good intentions don't automatically prevent harm. Imagine you accidentally break someone's arm. Saying "I'm sorry" is important, but it doesn't undo the damage. Similarly, careless language can hurt, even if we didn't intend to.
Text on screen: 🗣️ "Accountability Over Intent" 🗣️
Accountability matters. Modifying our language to avoid harm is cost-free yet profoundly impactful. Some people resist change, labelling concerns as "overly sensitive." This isn't about sensitivity; it's about respect and inclusion.
Text on screen: 💬 "Language Changes for Good" 💬
Changing how we speak benefits everyone. Think about how sales teams use specific terminology to improve outcomes. The same principle applies here. Using inclusive language isn't just polite; it makes our conversations and interactions more effective and welcoming.
Text on screen: 🌎 "Adapting Language for Inclusivity" 🌎
Language evolves, and so should we. Clinging to outdated dictionary definitions doesn't cut it anymore. Respecting terms like gender-neutral pronouns and LGBTQIA+ expectations can make a monumental difference in someone's life.
Text on screen: ⚖️ "Balancing Views & Understanding" ⚖️
Everyone has different views on language sensitivity. While some might see it as unnecessary, understanding its importance can significantly enhance communication, especially for leaders connecting with diverse groups.
Text on screen: 🤝 "Inclusivity and Leadership" 🤝
Leaders, remember this: genuine inclusivity means engaging effectively with everyone. By using inclusive language, you’re laying the groundwork for better relationships and a more inclusive environment.
Thanks for watching! Remember, together we can make a difference. Stay connected, stay inclusive! See you next time. ✨
Glossary of Terms and Phrases
Certainly! Here’s a list of specific concepts and terminology discussed in this episode of "The Inclusion Bites Podcast," along with their implied definitions within the episode context:
Good Intentions vs. Impact:
Definition: The notion that having good intentions behind actions does not compensate for any negative consequences that may arise.
Accountability:
Definition: The responsibility individuals have to understand and manage the impact of their words and actions, irrespective of their intentions.
Language Sensitivity:
Definition: The awareness and careful use of language to avoid offending or causing harm, especially regarding race, gender, and other personal identities.
Gender-Neutral Pronouns:
Definition: Pronouns that do not specify a gender, such as "they/them," which are used to respect and acknowledge non-binary and gender-fluid individuals.
Non-Binary:
Definition: A gender identity that does not conform strictly to male or female categories.
Panromantic:
Definition: An orientation where a person feels romantic attraction towards others regardless of their gender identity.
Accountability Culture:
Definition: A societal or corporate culture that prioritises holding individuals responsible for their actions and their consequences on others.
Asexuality:
Definition: The lack of sexual attraction towards others, though this can include varying experiences with sexual activity and libido.
LGBTQIA+:
Definition: An inclusive acronym standing for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Intersex, Asexual, and other sexual orientations and gender identities.
Queer:
Definition: A broad term used inclusively to represent various gender identities and sexual orientations. However, its usage needs to be sensitive as it may not resonate positively with everyone in the community.
Colonial, Racist, Ableist Connotations:
Definition: Language or phrases that carry offensive or prejudiced undertones related to colonial history, racial discrimination, or ableism (discrimination against disabled people).
Intersectionality:
Definition: The concept that various social identities (e.g., race, gender, sexuality) intersect to create unique experiences of oppression and privilege.
Empathy Bridge:
Definition: The metaphorical gap that needs to be bridged to understand and empathise with others' lived experiences.
Echo Chambers:
Definition: Environments, often digital, where people encounter information that reinforces their existing beliefs, limiting exposure to differing perspectives.
Psychological Safety:
Definition: A workplace or social climate where individuals feel safe to express their thoughts and concerns without fear of retribution or ridicule.
Anti-Racism:
Definition: The practice of actively identifying and opposing racism by advocating for changes in political, economic, and social life to dismantle systemic racism.
Allyship:
Definition: The practice of supporting and advocating for the rights and inclusion of marginalised groups by using one’s privilege to influence positive change.
Inclusivity:
Definition: Practices or actions that create environments where all individuals or groups feel integrated, valued, and respected.
Understanding these concepts helps appreciate the depth of the conversations on inclusion and the nuances involved in ensuring respectful and effective communication.
SEO Optimised YouTube Content
Focus Keyword: Positive People Experiences
Title: Talking Not Telling | #InclusionBitesPodcast
Welcome to this special episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, "Talking Not Telling", where we delve into the transformative world of Positive People Experiences and Culture Change. I’m your host, Joanne Lockwood, and today, we have the pleasure of chatting with Katie Allen, an exceptional confidence coach and inclusion consultant whose insights are not just thought-provoking but action-inspiring.
Tags: inclusion, diversity, positive people experiences, culture change, Joanne Lockwood, Katie Allen, Inclusion Bites Podcast, language sensitivity, gender neutrality, LGBTQIA, asexuality, sales terminology, accountability, leadership, allyship, empathy, storytelling, social media algorithms, echo chambers, miscommunication, lived experiences
Killer Quote: "While one may not feel affected by language insensitivity, understanding and adjusting language can enhance communication and inclusivity." - Katie Allen
Hashtags: #PositivePeopleExperiences, #CultureChange, #InclusionBites, #JoanneLockwood, #KatieAllen, #LanguageSensitivity, #Diversity, #Inclusion, #Leadership, #Allyship, #Asexuality, #LGBTQIA, #GenderNeutrality, #Accountability, #Empathy, #Storytelling, #EchoChambers, #Miscommunication, #SocialMedia, #LivedExperiences
Why Listen
In this riveting episode, we spotlight the essence of Positive People Experiences and their pivotal role in spearheading Culture Change. I had the privilege of speaking with Katie Allen, whose passions lie in demystifying the nuances of language and inclusion while fostering environments where individuals feel valued and understood.
Katie artfully explains the concept that good intentions do not always mitigate the harm one's actions might cause. To illustrate this, she shares an analogy about a broken arm: even if you didn’t intend to harm someone, the damage inflicted remains the same. Katie stresses that an awareness of the unintended consequences of our words and actions is crucial in advancing inclusive cultures.
Accountability is a cornerstone of this discussion. I emphasise the fact that modifying our language to avoid harm is, in fact, cost-free. Resistance to such changes often comes from those dismissing concerns as overly sensitive or "snowflake" issues. Katie concurs, drawing parallels to sales terminology where language is adapted for better outcomes. It's a simple yet profound tweak that can make a significant difference—both personally and professionally. Imagine a world where language is carefully chosen, not just for clarity but for compassion. This subtle shift can significantly enhance Positive People Experiences, a theme that resonates deeply throughout our conversation.
A significant portion of our dialogue delves into the ingrained nature of language in daily life, often laden with colonial, racist, or ableist connotations. Becoming aware of these and reflecting upon them is no easy feat, yet it’s indispensable for true Culture Change.
Language evolves, and Katie underscores the importance of respecting this evolution. Clinging to rigid, outdated definitions serves only to alienate and exclude. Here, the use of gender-neutral pronouns stands as a testament to the respect for individual identity. We all carry diverse experiences, and it’s crucial for everyone, especially leaders, to embrace this dynamism for truly inclusive interactions.
Touching upon my own experiences and reflections post-gender transition, I understand and appreciate the complexity and depth that relationships entail beyond mere sexual identity. Katie discussing her own asexuality and her unique relationship dynamics with a straight man also shatters many stereotypes. This emphasises the need for broader understanding and relaxed assumptions about personal identity.
We further explore how effective communication and empathy play into these complexities. Misunderstandings about asexuality abound in both the media and personal interactions. Katie’s experiences highlight the importance of listening fully and respecting diverse stories and identities.
Positive People Experiences are fundamentally about empathy and a willingness to engage in difficult conversations. Katie champions storytelling as a crucial tool for breaking down barriers, viewing emotions as data that can be interrogated and understood.
We touch on the role of leaders as allies, using their privilege to facilitate tough discussions on anti-racism and trans awareness. The discussion here is not about debating 'what' people believe but understanding the 'why' behind their beliefs. This approach nurtures empathy and paves the way for genuine Culture Change.
Katie and I also dissect how social media algorithms often enforce echo chambers, intensifying polarisation. Despite this, engaging thoughtfully with diverse content can challenge personal biases and expand one’s worldview, fostering Positive People Experiences across the board.
To tie it all together, Katie expresses her mission: spreading curiosity, acceptance, and a rejection of perfectionism. Both of us stress the value of authenticity and embracing human imperfections, advocating for societal shifts that allow individuals to be their true selves.
Closing Summary and Call to Action
Understanding Intent vs. Impact:
Good intentions don't necessarily negate harm.
Use language mindfully to avoid unintended consequences.
Accountability in Language:
Cost-free adjustments can significantly enhance communication and inclusivity.
Compare mindful language to successful sales strategies.
Evolution of Language:
Embrace evolving terminologies like gender-neutral pronouns.
Outdated definitions alienate and exclude people.
Communication in Relationships:
Katie's personal insights into asexuality and its diverse expressions.
The importance of maintaining identity in a relationship.
Empathy and Storytelling:
Stories from lived experiences bridge gaps in understanding.
Emotions should be seen as data to understand personal values or beliefs.
Role of Leaders as Allies:
Leaders must engage in uncomfortable conversations about inclusivity.
Understand 'why' rather than 'what' people believe.
Addressing Social Media Echo Chambers:
Algorithms often reinforce existing beliefs.
Engage with diverse viewpoints to broaden perspectives.
Positive Representation in Media:
Highlight positive LGBTQIA and other diverse representations.
Understand the impact of media on personal identity and social norms.
Authenticity and Imperfection:
Advocate for embracing one’s true self and rejecting perfectionism.
Value empathetic, open dialogues in fostering healthy relationships.
Future Engagements and Ongoing Conversations:
Encouragement to contact Katie and engage in ongoing discussions.
The significance of continuing these conversations for further learning.
These key takeaways not only encapsulate the essence of Positive People Experiences but also offer actionable insights for fostering inclusive and respectful cultures.
Outro
Thank you, the listener, for tuning into today's episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast. If you enjoyed our chat and found it valuable, please like and subscribe to our channel. For more fascinating episodes, visit the SEE Change Happen website and explore our podcast. Remember to stay curious, stay kind, and stay inclusive.
Find more information at:
SEE Change Happen website: https://seechangehappen.co.uk
The Inclusion Bites Podcast: https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen
Stay curious, stay kind, and stay inclusive - Joanne Lockwood
Root Cause Analyst - Why!
Root Cause Analysis for Episode: Talking Not Telling
Key Problems Identified:
Resistance to Changing Language:
Misunderstandings around Asexuality:
Lack of Open, Inclusive Dialogue in Organisations:
Impact of Social Media Echo Chambers:
Discomfort with the Term "Queer":
Problem 1: Resistance to Changing Language
Why? People perceive changing language as unnecessary or view it as a concession to "snowflake" culture.
Why? They believe their current language is sufficient and do not understand the potential harm caused.
Why? There's a lack of awareness about the historical and social contexts of many terms.
Why? Educational systems and media often fail to address these issues comprehensively.
Why? Society prioritises maintaining the status quo over addressing uncomfortable truths.
Root Cause: A combination of insufficient education on the impact of language and a societal preference for preserving the status quo contributes to resistance to changing language.
Solution: Implement comprehensive educational programs across various platforms that highlight the importance of language sensitivity. Encourage media to portray these issues more accurately and empathically.
Problem 2: Misunderstandings around Asexuality
Why? People are often unfamiliar with what it means to be asexual.
Why? Mainstream media rarely features accurate representations of asexuality.
Why? Asexuality is frequently mischaracterised or overlooked in broader discussions about sexual diversity.
Why? There is a lack of asexual voices in positions of influence within media and education.
Why? Structural biases and stereotypes impede the inclusion of diverse voices.
Root Cause: Structural biases within media and education contribute to a lack of representation and understanding of asexuality.
Solution: Promote asexual voices and stories within media and educational content. Foster inclusive environments that support the visibility of asexual individuals.
Problem 3: Lack of Open, Inclusive Dialogue in Organisations
Why? Many leaders are uncomfortable broaching sensitive topics like racism and gender identity.
Why? These topics challenge their existing frames of reference and can provoke fear of making mistakes.
Why? Leaders often surround themselves with similar individuals, limiting diverse perspectives.
Why? There are systemic barriers that prioritise homogeneity within leadership structures.
Why? Organisational cultures frequently prioritise harmony over addressing complex, uncomfortable issues.
Root Cause: Systemic barriers and a lack of psychological safety prevent leaders from engaging in open, inclusive dialogues.
Solution: Develop leadership training focused on psychological safety and cultural intelligence. Encourage diversity within leadership teams to broaden perspectives.
Problem 4: Impact of Social Media Echo Chambers
Why? Social media algorithms favour content similar to what users already engage with.
Why? These algorithms are designed to maximise user engagement and time spent on the platform.
Why? Social media companies prioritise profit and user retention.
Why? There's a business model that equates user engagement with profitability.
Why? Lack of regulatory oversight allows these practices to continue unchecked.
Root Cause: The profit-driven business models of social media platforms perpetuate echo chambers by prioritising user engagement over diverse content exposure.
Solution: Advocate for regulatory changes that require social media companies to promote diverse content. Develop user features that allow for more control over the types of information presented.
Problem 5: Discomfort with the Term "Queer"
Why? Some individuals within the LGBTQIA+ community find "queer" to be a loaded or negatively connoted term.
Why? Historical usage of "queer" as a pejorative term has left lasting impacts.
Why? Society has a history of using language as a tool for marginalisation and discrimination.
Why? There has been insufficient reconciliation and healing regarding the usage of such terms.
Why? Broader societal efforts towards inclusion and reclamation of language have been inconsistent.
Root Cause: Historical usage of "queer" as a pejorative term has left a lasting impact, complicating its reclamation within the LGBTQIA+ community.
Solution: Promote discussions within the community to address and reconcile the historical connotations of "queer." Encourage respect for individual preferences regarding identity terms while educating on the term's reclamation and inclusive potential.
Summary of Findings
The root causes identified through this analysis predominantly stem from systemic issues related to education, media representation, structural biases, and profit-driven mechanisms. These findings highlight the complex interdependencies that perpetuate resistance to change, misunderstandings, and lack of inclusivity.
Suggested Solutions
Educational Reform: Integrate comprehensive curricula on language sensitivity, sexual diversity, and inclusion within educational systems.
Media Representation: Promote diverse and accurate representations of minority groups in mainstream media.
Leadership Training: Implement training programs that focus on psychological safety, cultural intelligence, and inclusive leadership.
Regulatory Advocacy: Campaign for regulatory oversight on social media platforms to ensure diverse content exposure.
Community Dialogue: Facilitate community-led discussions to reconcile historical usage and contemporary reclamation of terms like "queer."
By addressing these root causes, we can foster a more inclusive and understanding society, promoting change and growth across various sectors.
Canva Slider Checklist
Episode Carousel
🖼️ Slide 1: Provoking Question
Text:
❓ Can Good Intentions Still Cause Harm? 🤔
Background Image:
An image of two people mid-conversation, looking concerned, with a blurred background to focus attention on the text.
🖼️ Slide 2: The Broken Arm Analogy
Text:
Imagine trying to help someone with a broken arm by patting their back. Your intention is kind, but the impact? Ouch! Katie Allen explains why good intentions aren't always enough. 💔
Background Image:
Illustration of a person with a broken arm flinching as another person reaches out to touch them.
🖼️ Slide 3: The Power of Language
Text:
"Changing our language costs nothing but can mean everything." - Joanne Lockwood 🌟
Why do some resist this simple change? Let's delve into the impact of words.
Background Image:
A speech bubble with various words inside, indicating the concept of language.
🖼️ Slide 4: Embracing Change
Text:
Language evolves. It's not about being overly sensitive—it's about respect. Katie Allen shares why adapting our vocabulary is vital for true inclusivity. 🗣️❤️
Background Image:
A dynamic and colourful illustration of words transforming into more inclusive terms.
🖼️ Slide 5: Call to Action
Text:
Ready to challenge your perspective on language and inclusivity? Join us in our latest episode, "Talking Not Telling," on The Inclusion Bites Podcast! 🎧✨
Background Image:
An image of a pair of headphones resting on a notebook titled "Inclusion Bites Podcast."
6 major topics
Talking Not Telling: Embracing Nuanced Conversations and Language Sensitivity
When I sat down with Katie Allen, we delved deep into the complicated yet crucial terrain of language, identity, and inclusive practices. Katie Allen, known for her insightful perspectives on these topics, shared some thought-provoking insights that left us both pondering and eager for societal change. Here are the six major themes from our engaging conversation—each offering a transformative lens on inclusion.
Intentions vs. Impact: The Broken Arm Analogy
In our conversation, Katie introduced a compelling analogy that stuck with me—the broken arm analogy. This metaphor highlights that good intentions do not negate the harm caused by one's actions, much like hitting someone's arm can still break it regardless of intent. This led us down a fascinating path—what unintended consequences have our words and actions led to, despite our best intentions? Katie underscored the idea that we must hold ourselves accountable for our impact. This brings us to a larger question: How far are we willing to go to ensure we are not causing harm, even unintentionally?
Language Sensitivity: Words Matter
Our discussion took a natural turn towards the topic of language sensitivity. We both agreed that adjusting our language to avoid harm is a cost-free measure that yields immense benefit. Why is there such resistance to modifying language, particularly when the consequences of not doing so can be so detrimental? As Katie pointed out, even salespeople adapt their terminology to achieve better outcomes; why then should our everyday language be any different? The ingrained nature of language in our daily lives often goes unquestioned, but reflecting on and revising harmful phrases is a collective necessity.
Evolution of Language: Clinging to Definitions
Katie really hit home when she talked about the evolving nature of language. Language is not a static entity; it changes, and our understanding and application must evolve with it. We debated why so many people cling to archaic dictionary definitions, especially when it comes to gender-neutral pronouns or terms within the LGBTQIA community. Respecting individuals' language preferences is more than just courteous—it's a cornerstone of inclusive communication. Are we ready to embrace these changes, or will we cling to outdated norms?
Asexuality Explored: Breaking Down Misconceptions
One of the more personal and enlightening parts of our conversation centered around asexuality—a topic often riddled with misconceptions. Katie provided clarity by explaining that asexuality involves not experiencing sexual attraction, though it doesn't necessarily equate to a lack of sexual activity or libido. This brought us to the important distinctions between sexual attraction, pleasure, and libido. Katie herself identifies as a panromantic, offering a rich perspective on emotional and intellectual connections that transcend traditional notions of romantic relationships.
The Role of Allies: Genuine Allyship and Responsibility
Katie stressed the crucial role of allies in engaging with difficult conversations about race, gender, and identity. How can leaders truly implement inclusive strategies if they shy away from uncomfortable topics? This is where the idea of true allyship comes into play—using one's privilege to engage in conversations on behalf of those who might be more affected. Katie eloquently pointed out that it’s not enough to passively support; real change requires active participation and the willingness to dive into discomfort to foster understanding and action.
Empathy and Storytelling: Bridging Understanding Gaps
We wrapped up our discussion by focusing on the transformative power of storytelling and lived experiences. Katie called it the “empathy bridge”—a gap in understanding that we can only bridge by genuinely listening to others' stories. This concept resonated deeply with me, especially when reflecting on how social media can both help and hinder this process. Can we extend our perspectives to include voices and experiences divergent from our own? Katie believes so, and her reflections on media representations and personal storytelling as tools for learning further convinced me of their vital role in driving societal change.
Closing Thoughts
As we concluded our conversation, it was clear that our dialogue had only scratched the surface of these multifaceted issues. However, it also affirmed the significance of continual learning and the necessity of ongoing conversations. Whether it's exploring the depths of language sensitivity, breaking down the nuances of asexuality, or understanding the true role of allies, these are the steps toward a more inclusive world. Let's continue to question, learn, and evolve—one conversation at a time.
TikTok Summary
🎧✨ Dive into transformative conversations with Inclusion Bites! Hosted by Joanne Lockwood, this podcast unpacks the world of inclusive cultures and belonging, featuring inspiring guests like Katie Allen. 🌈🤝
Want to explore why changing language can build bridges, or how a single conversation can spark real change? Tune in and be part of the movement.
Don't miss out—catch the full episode here: Inclusion Bites Podcast 🚀 #InclusionBites #InclusiveConversations #PositiveChange
Slogans and Image Prompts
Certainly! Here are some slogans, soundbites, and quotes from the episode that can be used for merchandise, along with detailed AI image generation prompts to make them memorable and desirable:
Slogans, Soundbites, and Quotes
"Talking, Not Telling"
Image Prompt: Generate a vibrant illustration of two people engaged in an animated conversation, with speech bubbles showing diverse and inclusive dialogue. The background should be colourful and uplifting, reflecting a welcoming atmosphere.
Hashtag: #TalkingNotTelling
"Good Intentions Aren't Enough"
Image Prompt: Depict a broken arm in a metaphorical sense, with a gentle, inclusive colour palette. The arm is being tended to by diverse hands, symbolising care and accountability despite good intentions.
Hashtag: #IntentionsAndImpact
"Change your Language, Change the World"
Image Prompt: Visualise a diverse group of people, each holding a speech bubble with positive and inclusive words. The background should feature a globe, signifying global change through mindful language.
Hashtag: #LanguageMatters
"Inclusion Begins with Awareness"
Image Prompt: Create an image of an open book with pages turning, each page showing different cultures, identities, and inclusivity symbols. The book is set against a backdrop of a sunrise, symbolising awareness and new beginnings.
Hashtag: #BeginWithAwareness
"Respect Preferences, Embrace Change"
Image Prompt: Show an evolving timeline with various identities represented, from traditional to modern. The focal point is on hands shaking, representing respect and embracing change through different eras.
Hashtag: #RespectAndEmbrace
"Listen to Learn, Not to React"
Image Prompt: Depict an ear surrounded by various thought bubbles full of diverse life experiences and narratives. The background should be calming, with soothing colours to emphasise active listening.
Hashtag: #ListenToLearn
"Empathy is the Bridge to Understanding"
Image Prompt: Illustrate a bridge connecting two cliffs. On one side, diverse silhouettes representing different genders, races, and abilities. On the other, the same silhouettes meeting in the middle of the bridge, symbolising empathy.
Hashtag: #EmpathyBridge
"Inclusive Conversations, Not Echo Chambers"
Image Prompt: Design an image of a diverse roundtable discussion set against a backdrop of breaking mirrors, representing breaking out of echo chambers. The background should include symbols of various inclusive movements.
Hashtag: #BreakEchoChambers
"Leaders Learn, Leaders Listen"
Image Prompt: Show a group of individuals, each a different part of the leadership chain, engaging in listening to diverse voices represented by different icons (LGBTQIA+, different races, disabilities etc.). The background should be professional yet welcoming.
Hashtag: #LeadersListen
"Authenticity Over Perfection"
Image Prompt: Create an artistic representation of a heart with various unique patches, symbolising authenticity. Surround it with symbols of individuality and inclusivity, showing that being imperfect is perfect.
Hashtag: #AuthenticityRules
These slogans and quotes encapsulate the spirit of the episode, and the visual representations will make them memorable and desirable for merchandise.
Inclusion Bites Spotlight
Katie Allen, our guest on Talking Not Telling, this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, brings a profound perspective on language, inclusion, and identity. As a confidence coach and inclusion consultant, Katie dives into the complexities of communicating with intent and the power of words to either harm or heal. With her deep understanding of language's impact, she explores how subtle shifts in our terminology can foster greater inclusivity and understanding.
Katie stresses that good intentions alone do not absolve the potential harm one's words may cause, illustrating this with an engaging broken arm analogy. She posits that changing harmful language is both cost-free and crucial, addressing common resistance and the dismissal of concerns as mere 'snowflake' issues. Katie's approach echoes the precision of a seasoned sales professional, adjusting terminologies for optimal outcomes without sacrificing respect.
Through her work, Katie aims to inspire more awareness and reflection on everyday language use, advocating for terms that truly resonate with and respect individuals' identities. She emphasises that language is constantly evolving, urging listeners to be open to change and considerate of preferences such as gender-neutral pronouns.
In this episode, Katie shares her personal experiences as an asexual individual, clarifying misconceptions and discussing the nuances of asexuality, attraction, and relationship dynamics. She challenges stereotypes and highlights the diversity of experiences within the asexual community.
Katie and Joanne Lockwood also tackle the broader themes of empathy, cultural intelligence, and the importance of storytelling in fostering understanding. Katie discusses the psychological tendencies that limit our perspectives and the role of social media algorithms in reinforcing echo chambers. She encourages seeking out diverse voices and experiences to broaden our understanding and challenge personal biases.
Katie Allen advocates for genuine allyship, especially from leaders, stressing the need for uncomfortable but necessary conversations on anti-racism and trans awareness. She highlights the importance of mutual respect and understanding in all interactions, aiming to bridge gaps in empathy and cultural awareness.
In this influential episode of The Inclusion Bites, be prepared to delve deep into the transformative power of language, empathy, and inclusive communication with the insightful Katie Allen.
YouTube Description
Title: Talking Not Telling: The Hidden Costs of Unintentional Harm and Language Sensitivity
Description:
Are good intentions enough? In this eye-opening episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood and Katie Allen unpack the hidden costs of unintentional harm and the transformative power of language sensitivity.
Hook:
Is it possible that your good intentions are causing more harm than good?
Episode Insights:
Joanne Lockwood, your host, challenges the common belief that intention overrides impact, highlighting how unchecked language can perpetuate harm. Katie Allen brings nuanced perspectives to the fore, revealing how simple changes in our choice of words can catalyse more inclusive environments and better relationships, both personally and professionally.
Key Discussions:
Broken Arm Analogy: Katie Allen discusses how good intentions do not excuse the harm caused by one's actions, using the broken arm analogy to simplify the unintended consequences.
Language Sensitivity: Joanne Lockwood emphasises that modifying language to avoid offence is cost-free and urges listeners to be more mindful of their words.
Personal Benefit: Katie Allen explains that using appropriate language not only avoids causing offence but also enhances personal and business outcomes.
Colonial, Racist, and Ableist Connotations: Joanne dives into how everyday phrases often carry problematic histories, urging for thoughtful use.
Evolving Language: Katie discusses the importance of respecting individual preferences, like gender-neutral pronouns, even as language continues to evolve.
Takeaways:
Understand the Impact: Realise that good intentions don't negate the impact of your words or actions.
Adapt Language: Embrace the necessity to evolve your language with awareness and respect for others' identities.
Leadership and Inclusivity: Leaders, take note: effective inclusivity begins with open, honest conversations and active listening.
Challenge Your Echo Chamber: Engage with diverse voices to broaden your perspectives and challenge inherent biases.
Closing Actions:
Listen and Reflect: Fully engage with conversations that offer diverse perspectives.
Communicate Thoughtfully: Remember, changing your language is a small price to pay for inclusivity.
Be an Ally: Use your privilege to support those more affected by insensitive discourse.
Connect with Katie Allen: Discover more at KatieAllenConsulting.com or reach out on LinkedIn.
Join us in redefining how we communicate—one conversation at a time. Like, subscribe, and share your thoughts in the comments below. Let's turn good intentions into positive actions together! 🌟
#InclusionBites #LanguageMatters #GoodIntentions #CulturalAwareness #InclusiveLeadership #RespectfulLanguage #InclusiveCommunication #AsexualityAwareness #DiverseVoices #PositiveChange
10 Question Quiz
Multiple Choice Quiz: "Talking, Not Telling"
Questions
What analogy does Katie Allen use to explain unintended consequences of one's actions?
A) Dropping a vase
B) Spilling coffee
C) A broken arm
D) Missing a deadline
What does Joanne Lockwood suggest is cost-free and can prevent harm?
A) Political correctness
B) Changing language
C) Apologising
D) Comprehensive policies
How does Katie Allen compare the necessity of changing language to another professional field?
A) Medicine
B) Sales
C) Engineering
D) Education
What commonly ignored connotations does Joanne Lockwood highlight in everyday language?
A) Financial
B) Colonial, racist, or ableist
C) Environmental
D) Legal
Katie Allen emphasises the evolving nature of language and suggests respecting what?
A) Legal documents
B) People's job titles
C) Individuals' preferences
D) Historical texts
Under what condition does Katie Allen advocate for using the term "queer"?
A) Only if the person identifies with it
B) It should always be used
C) Never under any circumstances
D) Only in academic discussions
What does Katie Allen say about her personal relationship dynamics?
A) They follow traditional gender roles
B) They focus on non-sexual attributes
C) They are driven by financial stability
D) They are based on familial expectations
How does Katie Allen describe her approach to inclusion work?
A) As stern and prescriptive
B) As ceremonial and formal
C) Through conversation, not judgment
D) By enforcing strict policies
What common fear prevents people from engaging in inclusive conversations, according to Katie Allen?
A) Financial loss
B) Being wrong or saying the wrong thing
C) Physical harm
D) Losing friends
Joanne Lockwood believes leaders need to engage in uncomfortable conversations for what reason?
A) To improve profits
B) To promote growth in sales
C) To implement effective inclusion strategies
D) To adhere to legal standards
Answer Key & Rationale
C) A broken arm
Katie Allen uses this analogy to explain that good intentions do not negate potential harm.
B) Changing language
Joanne Lockwood highlights that modifying language to avoid causing offence is cost-free and necessary.
B) Sales
Katie Allen likens the adaptation of language to the strategic use of terminology in sales to improve outcomes.
B) Colonial, racist, or ableist
Joanne Lockwood points out that many everyday phrases have unnoticed harmful connotations.
C) Individuals' preferences
Katie stresses the importance of respecting how individuals prefer to be addressed or identified.
A) Only if the person identifies with it
Katie advocates for the term's use with caution and only if it corresponds with someone's self-identification.
B) They focus on non-sexual attributes
Katie describes her personal relationships as centring more around emotional and intellectual connections.
C) Through conversation, not judgment
Katie prefers a dialogue-based approach to inclusion, aiming for mutual understanding over criticism.
B) Being wrong or saying the wrong thing
Katie highlights this common fear as a barrier to engaging in inclusive discussions.
C) To implement effective inclusion strategies
Joanne asserts that having difficult conversations is essential for leaders to foster truly inclusive environments.
Summary
Through the lens of Katie Allen's insights on inclusion, it's clear that good intentions do not negate the potential harm one's actions may cause, much like a broken arm analogy illustrates unintended consequences. Joanne Lockwood echoes this by emphasising that modifying language to avoid causing harm is cost-free and vital. Katie Allen draws a parallel between adaptable language and terminology use in sales, underlining the benefits for both personal relations and avoiding offence. Joanne Lockwood also highlights the unnoticed harmful connotations in daily language, while Katie stresses the importance of evolving language and respecting individuals' preferences, advocating for cautious use of terms like "queer" only if the person identifies with it.
Furthermore, Katie's personal relationship dynamics, focusing on non-sexual attributes and her conversation-driven approach to inclusion, highlight the need for open dialogue rather than judgment. A common barrier to inclusive conversations, as per Katie, is the fear of being wrong or saying the wrong thing, with Joanne Lockwood fortifying that engaging in uncomfortable conversations is crucial for leaders to implement effective inclusion strategies. Thus, the episode emphasizes the importance of conscious language use, understanding diverse experiences, and fostering authentic and respectful communication in all spheres.
Rhyme Scheme and Rhythm Podcast Poetry
Talking Not Telling: The Inclusion Way
In a world where words can wound or heal,
We must be mindful, true and real.
Intentions good may bear a harm,
Like breaks unmeant, they still alarm.
Change your words, it's burden-free,
Yet many balk, dismissively.
"Sensitivity’s for snowflakes," they proclaim,
Not seeing harm within the frame.
Hold yourself accountable, stay aware,
Shift your language, show you care.
The salesman's trick can serve us all,
Adapt to climb, not cause a fall.
Colonial, racist, ableist terms we say,
Ugly roots from another day.
Language shifting, we evolve anew,
To honour others’ point of view.
Terms inclusive, LGBTQIA+,
Hold respect, don't make a fuss.
Yet 'queer' we know may cause dismay,
Seek permission, pave the way.
Asexual tales, a nuance grand,
Attractions vast, you’ll understand.
Pleasure, libido, not on cue,
Connections deep, they're rather true.
From polar views to empathy’s bridge,
See the world from another ridge.
Stories told and stories shared,
Build our bonds, a world repaired.
In leaders’ hands, rests the call,
For genuine change affects us all.
Dive in deep, avoid retreat,
The bravest path is often sweet.
Echo chambers lead us awry,
Seek diverse voices, aim high.
On-screen tales of love that’s blind,
Challenge norms, clear the mind.
Conversations, open, frank and clear,
Hold to hearts we hold dear.
Authentic selves, a sight so rare,
Find the strength to stay and care.
Subscribe and share, let’s spread the word,
Change the script, be seen, be heard.
With thanks to Katie Allen for a fascinating podcast episode,
Change begins when seeds are sowed.
Key Learnings
Key Learning and Takeaway
The crucial lesson from this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast is the importance of mindful communication. Katie Allen and Joanne Lockwood discuss how the careful selection of language can foster mutual understanding, respect, and inclusivity. They stress that being aware of the impact of our words, even when intentions are good, is key to creating a more inclusive environment. By adjusting language to avoid harm, we show empathy and consideration for the diverse experiences and identities of others.
Point #1: Accountability in Language Use
Both Joanne and Katie emphasise the need for individuals to take responsibility for the impact their words have, regardless of intent. Joanne notes that changing language to avoid distress is a minimal effort but can lead to significant positive outcomes. Resistance to change in this area often dismissively labels concerns as overly sensitive or "snowflake" issues, yet the impact of language is profound and far-reaching.
Point #2: Adaptability and Awareness
Katie highlights how adapting our language for both personal benefits and to prevent offending others is a practice akin to strategic communication in sales. Like in a professional context, being attuned to the implications of our words in social and personal interactions can foster better relationships and more effective engagement with diverse groups.
Point #3: Evolving Nature of Language
The episode underscores the dynamic nature of language. Katie advocates for openness to evolving linguistic norms, respecting people's preferred terms, and using inclusive language like gender-neutral pronouns. Sticking rigidly to traditional or outdated definitions can hinder progress towards inclusivity and respect for individual identities.
Point #4: Intersectionality and Identity
A significant part of the discussion is devoted to understanding the complexities within identities, such as Katie's experiences as an asexual and panromantic individual. Both guests stress the importance of specific terminology, such as LGBTQIA+, to acknowledge and include all individuals' experiences. Joanne's preference for "queer" highlights the ongoing conversation within the community about identity labels and their reception. This awareness and respect for identity nuances promote a deeper empathy and connection across diverse experiences.
Book Outline
Book Outline: "Talking Not Telling: Conversations on Inclusion and Language Sensitivity"
Introduction
Welcome to the journey of exploring inclusive conversations and the power of mindful language
Importance of inclusion and language sensitivity in contemporary society
Overview of the book’s structure and the key themes to be discussed
Chapter 1: Good Intentions, Unintended Consequences
Subheadings:
The Broken Arm Analogy: Understanding Unintended Harm
Intent vs. Impact: Navigating Good Intentions
Personal Stories: Instances of Unintended Harm
Reflection Points: Examining Our Own Actions
Chapter 2: Accountability in Language
Subheadings:
The Cost-Free Nature of Changing Language
Resistance to Language Modification: Understanding the Root Causes
Overcoming the "Snowflake" Label
Strategies for Conscious Language Use
Chapter 3: Evolving Language for Inclusivity
Subheadings:
The Power of Words in Personal and Professional Contexts
The Sales Analogy: Tailoring Language for Better Outcomes
Reflecting on Colonial, Racist, and Ableist Connotations in Language
Personal Narratives: Stories of Language Evolution and Change
Chapter 4: Respecting Preferences and Pronouns
Subheadings:
The Importance of Gender-Neutral Pronouns
The Fluid Nature of Language and Identity
How to Respect and Adapt to Individuals’ Language Preferences
Practical Tips for Implementing Inclusive Language
Chapter 5: The Complexities of Identity and Labels
Subheadings:
The Nuances of LGBTQIA Terminology
Personal Reflections: Navigating Identity and Labels
Using "Queer" Inclusively and Respectfully
Specificity in Terminology: Ensuring Comprehensive Inclusion
Chapter 6: Understanding Asexuality
Subheadings:
Defining Asexuality and Common Misconceptions
The Spectrum of Asexual Experiences
Differentiating Between Attraction, Pleasure, and Libido
Personal Narratives: Relating Asexual Experiences to Broader Society
Chapter 7: Engaging in Meaningful Conversations
Subheadings:
The Value of Conversations for Perspective and Reflection
Storytelling as a Tool for Learning
Emotional Reactions as Data: Understanding Our Responses
Practical Steps for Effective Listening and Open Dialogues
Chapter 8: The Role of Allies and Leadership
Subheadings:
What Genuine Allyship Looks Like
Using Privilege to Engage in Difficult Conversations
Leadership Responsibilities in Driving Inclusion
Educational Resources for Leaders: Anti-Racism and Trans Awareness
Chapter 9: Social Media and Echo Chambers
Subheadings:
The Impact of Algorithms on Our Perspectives
Broadening Our Horizons: Seeking Diverse Voices
Reflections from Popular Media: TV Shows Addressing Societal Issues
Personal Connections to Representation and Media Influence
Chapter 10: Embracing Inclusivity in Daily Life
Subheadings:
Overcoming Fears of Saying the Wrong Thing
Creating Spaces for Diverse Perspectives
Real-Life Applications: How Inclusion Improves Communication
Practical Exercises for Daily Inclusive Practices
Conclusion: Embracing Curiosity and Change
Subheadings:
Recap of Key Insights and Themes
Embedding Inclusivity in Personal and Professional Spheres
Encouraging Ongoing Curiosity, Acceptance, and Reflection
Call to Action: Steps to Engage Further with Inclusion Work
Supplementary Content
Reflection Questions at the end of each chapter
Real-life anecdotes and case studies to illustrate key points
Interactive exercises to put insights into practice
Suggested Further Reading for deeper understanding of topics discussed
Title Suggestions:
"Talking Not Telling: Conversations on Inclusion and Language Sensitivity"
"Language Matters: Navigating Inclusivity Through Words"
"Inclusive Conversations: Understanding The Power of Words"
"The Evolving Language of Inclusion: Insights and Reflections"
Chapter Summaries:
Good Intentions, Unintended Consequences:
Explores the gap between intention and impact, using personal stories and analogies to highlight potential harms of actions, even if well-meaning.
Accountability in Language:
Discusses the importance of modifying language to avoid harm, addressing the resistance to change and the cost-free nature of adopting inclusive language practices.
Evolving Language for Inclusivity:
Examines the adaptability of language in both personal and professional contexts, focusing on the reflection of ingrained prejudices and the importance of changing terminology.
Respecting Preferences and Pronouns:
Delves into the significance of gender-neutral pronouns, the evolving nature of language, and the practical steps to respecting individuals' preferences.
The Complexities of Identity and Labels:
Highlights the nuanced understanding of LGBTQIA terminology and the importance of inclusive and comprehensive language to ensure recognition for all identities.
Understanding Asexuality:
Provides a detailed explanation of asexuality, differentiating between attraction, pleasure, and libido, and sharing personal narratives to dispel misconceptions.
Engaging in Meaningful Conversations:
Emphasises the value of storytelling, emotional intelligence, and open dialogue in fostering understanding and reflection, offering practical tips for effective listening.
The Role of Allies and Leadership:
Discusses the crucial role of allies in promoting inclusion and the responsibilities of leaders to be at the forefront of anti-racism and trans awareness.
Social Media and Echo Chambers:
Explores the impact of social media algorithms on our perspectives, encouraging readers to seek diverse voices and reflecting on media's role in societal issues.
Embracing Inclusivity in Daily Life:
Addresses the common fears surrounding inclusive language, providing real-life applications and exercises to incorporate inclusive practices in daily interactions.
Final Touches:
Ensure smooth transitions and coherence across chapters
Incorporate feedback from subject matter experts or test readers
Finalise book title and chapter summaries for a polished, reader-friendly format
Maxims to live by…
Intentions Don't Erase Impact: Good intentions cannot undo the potential harm caused by our actions.
Language Matters: Adjusting our language to avoid harm is not just considerate, it's cost-free.
Avoid Dismissing Sensitivity: Refusing to change harmful language by labelling concerns as “overly sensitive” undermines inclusivity.
Respect Through Language: Adapting our language benefits us personally and prevents causing offence.
Language Reflects Society: Recognise that everyday phrases can have colonial, racist, or ableist connotations, and strive for more awareness.
Embrace Language Evolution: Be open to the natural evolution of language and respect individuals' preferences, such as using gender-neutral pronouns.
Value Inclusivity: While you may not feel language insensitivity personally, understanding and adjusting language can enhance overall communication and inclusivity.
Broad Inclusivity is Key: Use comprehensive terms like LGBTQIA+ to ensure everyone feels included and recognised.
Understand Asexuality: Asexuality involves not experiencing sexual attraction, but it does not necessarily mean a lack of sexual activity or libido.
Different Types of Attraction: Recognise the distinctions between sexual attraction, pleasure, and libido.
Respect Personal Identity: Appreciate the diverse experiences within the asexual community, from sex-positive to sex-repulsed individuals.
Listen and Reflect: Engage in conversations to understand different viewpoints, offering perspective rather than trying to change opinions.
Emotions as Data: Use your emotional reactions to interrogate personal values or beliefs.
Full Listening: Listen fully to others to make informed decisions and open yourself to changing your stance when needed.
Mutual Respect in Dialogue: Seek to understand why people hold certain beliefs rather than focusing on what those beliefs are.
Genuine Allyship: Use your privilege to engage in difficult conversations on behalf of those more affected by the views being discussed.
Leadership Requires Empathy: Leaders must engage with issues like anti-racism and trans awareness to be effective and inclusive.
Broaden Your Perspective: Challenge personal biases by engaging with diverse voices and experiences beyond your usual scope.
Stay Open-Minded: Social media can create echo chambers; seek diverse content to broaden your understanding.
Positive Representation Matters: Positive representation, especially in media, significantly impacts our understanding and acceptance of diverse identities.
Cultural Intelligence: Embrace and understand diverse lived experiences to foster greater inclusion and empathy.
Engage Thoughtfully: Recognise social media's potential for good by consuming and engaging with it thoughtfully.
Honour Authenticity: Value authenticity and imperfection, both in yourself and in your interactions with others.
Curiosity and Acceptance: Maintain a mindset of curiosity, acceptance, and reject the impossible standard of perfectionism.
Open Communication: Honest and open conversations are fundamental for maintaining genuine relationships and fostering understanding.
Conversation Over Judgement: Approach inclusion work through conversation and understanding rather than by casting judgement.
Inclusive Leadership: Leaders need to create psychologically safe spaces to have challenging discussions about diversity.
Embrace Lived Experiences: Listen to and learn from the lived experiences of others to bridge the "empathy gap".
Empathy Through Storytelling: Use the powerful tool of storytelling to foster empathy and raise awareness.
Perception and Reality: Recognise and honour the varied layers within relationships and personal identities.
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