0:00 Audience Before Building Products
Julie
Hi there, welcome back to the Virtual Summit Show. Today I have a special guest. I have Kristen Robinson. Hi Kristen.
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Full transcript
Kristen
Hi.
Julie
So glad to have you. We've been in each other's worlds for a little bit, like being in bundles together and, you know, and you're in my email box and all that good stuff and in other communities together. And it's actually, we just realized, I thought We had spoken before, but no, it's the first time we meet face to face. And so that's super exciting. So I'm so, I'm so honored that, you know, you're here with me today.
Kristen
Well, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
Julie
No, you're welcome. So before we get started, how about you take a few moments to introduce yourself, what you do, and how you help, you know, the, the people, the humans?
Kristen
Okay, everyone, hello. I'm Kristen Robinson, the lead generation specialist of Explode Your Audience. I help online coaches and course creators grow their email list and their audience so they can sell out their courses and programs. I always say 3 fun facts you should know about me. Number 1, I'm a military spouse, a Marine Corps military spouse. I don't speak Army dialect, Air Force dialect. No, don't ask me. I don't know any of the services.
Okay, so that's number 1. Number 2, I am a proud doggy mommy. My dog's name is Taisho. She's a black lab hound. And Taicho is Japanese for captain. So if you translate her name, Taicho Robinson, it translates to Captain Robinson.
Julie
I love it.
Kristen
I love to tell people she has rank in the house. She has rank in the house as well. And the third fun fact you should know about me is I played women's professional football after college. It was always my dream to play. I always— my dream was to be the first woman in the NFL. Obviously, we know how that's going, but they had women's professional football leagues. And by the way, just so some of you guys know, not the lingerie ball.
Julie
Okay?
Kristen
I mean real pads. I got my jersey in my closet with a helmet. And my boyfriend then, husband now, did come and see me play and was so psyched for me when I scored a touchdown. So I have played real, real women's professional football where they hit, contact, sack people, the touchdowns, all that great stuff. So that was probably one of the biggest highlights of my life. But yes, I've done that.
Julie
That's so cool. And it's so like, until you've spoken to someone, you have no idea about this, these kind kinds of things, right? But that is so cool. Um, yeah, that's really cool. But I mean, you are an— like, you help people explode their email list, their audience, and all that stuff. And like, at the end of the day, let's be honest, like, you know, if we want success in our business, this is the one thing I think we need to do, right?
Kristen
Right. And I was— it was so funny, I was— I just was telling people the other day, like, it doesn't matter what your business model is. High ticket, low ticket courses, memberships, whatever, you know, whatever you need. You need eyeballs. People need to actually go, oh, that's a thing, right? And you need an audience. So I just love when I talk to people like, yeah, I'm gonna go build that course. And I'm like, that's great, but who are you going to promote it to when you, when you're done building the course?
And they're like, oh, and I'm like, uh-huh. Yeah.
So I always tell people it doesn't matter what business model you use, what offers you want to make. You're always going to need an email list or an audience of people to tell those people to tell your offers about. So either way it goes, you need to grow your email list or your audience.
Julie
I love that because like one of the people, one of the struggles that I'm sure you hear all the time, and I hear it too, is that, oh, they don't want to do the thing because they don't have an email list or an audience yet. Well, you don't, or don't have any programs or offers or whatever. What, it doesn't matter, right?
3:45 Why Ideal Clients Find Me
Kristen
Right. And it's so funny because me and my husband were actually talking about this, about how my ideal clients— and this is so painfully hard to say, but it's the truth— I find that my number one fans, my ride or die, so to speak, the people who cling to me and never let go for years, are the people who work with Coach A or Coach B. Coach A or Coach B told them, hey, let's launch that course.
You don't need a list. Or, hey, let's launch that course and debate whatever you want to call it. Launch the course, and they launch it, and they realize that they never had an audience to launch it to. And they start blaming themselves, thinking, oh, I didn't follow the instructions, or I didn't follow the launch model exactly right, whatever it is. And they launch again, and then they realize, wait a minute, I did it perfectly this time.
I paid the extra money for the private calls and the extra support, and there was nobody to tell them about my launch. And that's when they find me and go, like I said, they never let go because it's the painful reminder of like, oh my goodness, I don't want to go through this again. This was awful. I spent so much money trying to do this. Kristen, I am never going to let you go.
I'm going to hold on to you forever. And I'm like, that's— thank you. That's great.
But it's just— but they come to me that way, so committed. Because of that pain that they felt trying to launch or trying to offer or promote some kind of offer that they really poured their heart into, and it didn't— they didn't get the results that they want.
Julie
Yeah. And well, because you're awesome, that's why they want to hold on to you. But also, it doesn't even matter if you have no people on your list, or if you have 100 people on your list, or 3,000 people on your list. I don't care what anybody says, you need to grow your list consistently no matter that number looks like because your audience aren't like some of the people on your list.
And this happens to me, I'm sure it's the same with you, Kristen, but they're there just for the ride. They just love you, they want to stay with you, but they're not necessarily needing what you have to offer. So that's why we need to get in front of more people all the time. It's a numbers game.
I don't care what anybody says.
Kristen
Yes, I totally agree. I remember And I don't know how accurate this is for everybody, but I remember one of my early mentors was doing some math in her email list, and she was so transparent with us, and I couldn't believe it. They did like a measurement of her audience. Now we're talking at this, we're talking 20,000, 30,000 people on her email list, and they did the math and they found out that 75% to 90% of her email list never bought from her.
And I was like, oh, that's that. Now granted, that's not gonna be everybody, right? That's not gonna be everybody. But that stuck with me for over 10 years going, man, if only if 25% max of my email list buy from me.
Ooh, yeah, that number needs to get a little bigger every time because, and, and we're talking, and it's, it's, if you think about the numbers, it's not bad.
25% of 30,000 is not terrible, right? Like when you do the math. But just thinking that, wow, a maximum of 25% of your emails is gonna buy from you. Yeah, we need to make that pool bigger. And, you know, we need to clean out the people or figure out what to do with those people who are not buying. But man, that means, like you said, it has to be a consistent thing if you want more people to keep buying from you.
Julie
That is such a good point. And actually, like, do you know, like, is that industry standard? Like, that percentage, the people on your list that buy from you?
Kristen
I don't know, because not everyone's that transparent.
Julie
We have, we have to do some research on this. Now you've got me like, ah, the wheels are turning. And because I love data and I'm like, ooh, this is something I could like check for my own. Like, I know that the people who bought from me might not still be on my email list, however, but it's still a good indication to get that percentage, right? Yeah. Mm, that's really a good point. Anyway, today we're gonna talk about the giveaway.
Oh wait, no, that's your freebie. So, well, you know what? I'm doing something different today.
Let's talk about your freebie first because it's a good one and I think everybody should download it. The link for that's gonna be in the show notes, but it's the Giveaway and Bundle Essentials Checklist. And today we're talking about just that giveaway and list building bundles. So tell us what your freebie is. People, you need to stop, press pause, Go download this freebie, but tell us what it is and why they need to download it.
8:28 Giveaway & Bundles Checklist
Kristen
So the Giveaway and Bundles Essentials Checklist is literally what it sounds like. It's a checklist of essential things you need for giveaways and bundles. I know we're going to get to the difference later, but giveaways and bundles are ran very similarly, but the information you have to submit for both of them are the same. So basically, instead of going to a bundle or giveaway, going, what do I need to do? And your assets are all— or your experience and your assets are all scattered.
It basically helps you for first-time bundles and giveaway contributors, it helps you get all the information together so that when you're submitting your information for a giveaway or a bundle, you have it all there and it takes you— like, it saves you so much time. It takes you about 10 minutes. For those of you who are experienced and your stuff is all scattered, this is going to force you to put all of your assets in one place.
And I've had a lot of experienced bundle and giveaway contributors download this and go, oh my gosh, for the first time everything's in one Google folder.
And I'm like, Yay, because that's what it's supposed to do, because it trains you to go, oh, I need this. Okay, well, let me put it here. Let me do— and the next thing you know, you actually have a folder of all of your assets, and you finally completed something that you were supposed to be doing a long time ago. So that's the Giveaway and Bundle Essentials Checklist. It's good for people who are— you're doing your bundle or giveaway for the first time, or you're an experienced contributor and want all of your assets in one place.
Julie
That's awesome. I love it, and I'm gonna so download it. I'm like, you know, well, that's what we're gonna talk about today, but like giveaways to me. Like, I, I know summits, I know bundles, but also there's always something we can learn from, from one another, right? Like, so that's what I love about, like, community versus competition, right? Like, it's just that we can just learn from each other, help each other out and all that stuff, and grow together.
But I love it. So, and oh, I was gonna add to that, even if you think you're not interested in hosting bundle giveaway, whatever, download it anyway because you might wake up tomorrow morning and decide, you know what, I'm sick and tired of trying to grow my list organically. I want to do something. And this is the next step for you.
You have this tool downloaded already, right?
Kristen
Right. I— it's one of my favorite ways to tell my clients how to grow their lists with giveaways.
Julie
Yeah. Awesome. Okay, so let's dive into it. So online giveaways and list building bundles. So So first of all, can you break down the difference between— like, I know what a bundle is. I'm not super familiar with giveaways, so I'm gonna let you take the lead on that. But like, the difference between the online giveaway and a list building bundle in simple terms, you know?
Kristen
Of course. Yeah. So an online giveaway. So let's, let's start for those of you who have no idea what even we're talking about, like what's a bundle, what's a giveaway. So we all familiar with summits. Yes, if they're listening to this, you better be familiar with summits, right? So if you have a summit and you were to take out all the presentations, you're left with the free gifts, right, on the speakers page, right?
That is basically what a giveaway— that is basically the essential of what a giveaway is. It's all the free gifts without the speakers. That's a giveaway in itself.
Now, if you were to look at the all-access pass, in an all-access pass, right? That's where you pay to obviously get the recordings, but obviously there's no speaker, so there's no recordings and you're left with all these high products. That would be a bundle. See, like, I don't think people understand that giveaways and bundles are derived from summits. So they're literally like little stepchildren. Well, it's basically how they were derived. So an online giveaway, the biggest differences are this.
With an online giveaway, it's pay to play. Okay, so versus a list building bundle, for some of you may be more familiar with that, those are free to join.
12:15 Online Giveaway Costs Explained
So in an online giveaway, you're gonna find that you're gonna pay a cost. For most B2C giveaways, you're going to be probably paying $27, maybe as upward as $97. If you're B2B, unfortunately, with us it's way more expensive. You can pay anywhere starting at $97, average is $97 to $150. but you can pay up to $200, $300. And I hate to admit this, but I paid up to $700 to keep an online giveaway.
So it just depends on— first of all, you got to pay to be participating. And then of course, you can pay for some extras of visibility, right? And in a bundle, it's the same way.
It's free, but there are options to pay for extra visibility, right?
Julie
Like you're saying.
Kristen
So in an online giveaway, the difference— another big difference between bundles and online giveaways is online giveaways, it's the free gift. Okay, it's the free gift that you can use, the one sitting on your website. You can create a new one. It's a free gift. It's a lead magnet, right?
Julie
In a bundle, it's a product and most of the time it's a paid something.
Kristen
It's a paid something. And most of the time hosts want to know, hey, how was this sold or how many times have you sold it? So that's a big difference between online giveaways and bundles. Online giveaways, it's like, oh, here's my freebie, done.
Bundles, no, no, no, no. We have to submit an actual product that people have paid for, right? So that's another difference. The next biggest one I will say is your list size requirement. In a bundle, you can be in a list building bundle with zero, zero people. You don't even need an email list.
You're like, I'm gonna be in this, which is funny because I'm like, how are you gonna promote this? You've got zero email list. But hey, let the host figure that out, right? Like, but you could be in a bundle and be like, I got zero list. I'm going to get in, I'm going to start growing my list. Bundles, no, no, no, no. Online giveaways, list bundles have no list size requirement. Online giveaways have a list size requirement. Now I'm going to age myself.
So back in the day, imagine 2014, 2015, the list size requirement was probably about 500, 300 to 500.
Very easy. I say this easier to get on. Now with online giveaways, you're looking at list size requirements of 5,000, 10,000, and that's why you don't see a lot of people participating because it's that like high-end level of people with bigger email lists. It's events reserved for those types of people. But if you've been around for a while like myself, you still get those invitations despite maybe not having those list size requirements.
So those are like the big differences.
Julie
Okay, so giveaway you pay to be part of, there's a list size requirement, which is usually 3K plus, let's just say, right? Yeah.
Kristen
Well, for an online giveaway, I would say you're looking at more like 5,000.
Julie
5,000. Okay. And then it's, it's one of your free things in there. Yeah.
Kristen
For an online giveaway, it's a free gift, not a product.
Julie
Okay. So like, for example, I've got like a custom GPT that I use, my freebie. So that would be part of the giveaway.
Kristen
Yeah, like any type of lead magnet, there you usually don't find a value, right? Um, for an online— because you're just giving away a freebie, so you know, most people don't ask what the value is for that freebie, right?
Julie
Sometimes you don't even know the value, right? Like, I mean, I could probably put a value on the GPT because— but, but normally, um, Yeah, cool.
Kristen
I'm sorry, I have to give my dog some water. She's looking at me.
Julie
Sound good.
Kristen
I'm sorry.
Julie
No worries, I'll cut it out.
Kristen
All right. Sorry about that. My half a child, she's like sitting there just looking like, Mom, there's no water. And it's like Girl, you were sleeping.
Julie
I know my dogs, they like sit around the bowl. I'm like, oh, they need water.
Kristen
Okay, I'm so sorry about that.
Julie
No problem. It's— and it's easy to spot too, because I'll see like there's nobody talking, so we'll just pause for like whatever, 3 seconds.
Kristen
Okay.
Julie
Okay, that's awesome. So have you found a big difference, like when it comes to actually growing your email list, what's the biggest difference in results between the two? Because I know you do both, and I know like you host both, right? And you participate in both as well.
Kristen
Yes.
Julie
Yeah.
16:58 Risks of Online Giveaways
Kristen
Um, just, it depends because just like, just like, just like list building bundles, there are online giveaways that are duds. And I think that's the most painful part is because you paid to be in it, right? So you're like, that's $50 to $100 down the drain. That I just— I'm sorry, in my case, $100 to $150 down the drain, right? Like that didn't happen. But the thing is, with online giveaways, like, and it's one of the reasons why I actually turned to List Building Bundles.
When you're in online giveaways, now imagine, put yourself in my shoes for a second, everyone. I'm paying $97 to $150.
17:38 List Building vs. Online Giveaways
Julie
Okay.
Kristen
That means every time I want to grow my list, I'm shelling out at least $150, you know, $100 to $150. You can't do a lot of online giveaways with that kind of budget, right? You do 4, that's like $600, right? And so I remember finding about— finding out about list building bundles about 2021, and I was like, wait, these are similar to giveaways and they're free. Like, right? I was like, oh my gosh, like, this is what I was looking for because I needed a— I needed a break.
Like, it was just like, oh, I needed this. I needed a break. And so it's, it's weird because when I look at the history of all my online giveaways and I look at what I've done with list building bundles, unfortunately, online giveaways still win as far as the number of opt-ins. I know that sucks, but the thing is, we also have to remember Kristin's been doing online giveaways since 2014. So you guys can do mental math.
It's a long time. So there's a lot of history there as far as what I've done. But I can tell you from the history of doing online giveaways, My worst online giveaway, worst, was 232 opt-ins.
Julie
Worst. But at the end of the day, for you, for you to actually invest money and, and, and I mean, maybe that giveaway was like $100, $150 you spent to get 600 leads. If you were to put that money into paid ads, it would have cost you way more.
Kristen
Exactly. And And I'll say my best online giveaway was the one I invested $700. I got 800 opt-ins, which is even better, right? That's less than a dollar.
Julie
That's amazing.
Kristen
So that's what— so that's the thing is like, can you imagine? Let's pause for that for a second. Can you imagine 800 people coming onto your email list in a 3-week span? Yeah, it's insane, right? You're just like, I can imagine everyone going, I want that, right? I mean, who doesn't want that, right? 800 new people. So my point is, is when it comes to online giveaways, what you'll find is because everyone has to pay, you're not going to have tons of people like bundles.
You, Julie, you're familiar with this. Some, some of us building bundles, we call mega bundles, meaning mega bundles have over 100 people. There's so many people in there. And as much as we'd like to say collaboration over competition, you are competing when it's over 100 people because not everyone goes to the next page or scrolls down or whatever. But you'll find an online giveaway, because it's pay-to-play, it's very limited to how many people are in there.
It's, it's not, it's not, it's very uncommon, I guess not common, to find a maximum of 50 contributors in an online giveaway. Now in a bundle, you're like, well, that's normal. Like in a bundle, that is normal to have 50 contributors. That is completely normal. In an online giveaway, that's not normal. That's maximum. So because there is that I guess you want to call it a barrier that keeps some people out is you have to pay.
And so therefore these events are a lot smaller.
Plus when you add in the list size requirement of you need a bigger email list, you're just by math, you're just going to get a lot more opt-ins. And like you said, it's a great investment because if you were to pay ads or something else, you'd be paying more per lead than you were doing online giveaways. Is.
Julie
I love that. And also, would you say— would you say— and I don't know if you've ever like noticed, but would you say that maybe they are also better leads than the bundles, or it's— they're pretty equal?
Kristen
I'd say pretty equal. Yeah, because both— in both cases, people are getting something for free. Yeah, it doesn't matter what the value is. I'm at the end of the day, they're just putting their name and email, getting something for free. So they're, they're about the same type of quality.
Julie
But I think like, you know, I was thinking about this this morning because I was like, you know, coming up with like a list of, okay, what are we going to talk about? But I was like, we don't see that many giveaways come across our desks. Or maybe it's because I'm not in the right email list or whatever, right? But we don't see them as often as bundles and summits, for example.
Right? So, so are they there behind the scenes? And like now, because we've talked about it, I'm gonna see them everywhere.
Kristen
No, I feel like it's like a secret society. It's a secret. It's like a secret society because it's— I tell my clients this all the time, is like when you're— when you want to be in a bundle or a giveaway, you just find the one, and then once you're in that one, you're gonna get invitations for others.
Julie
Because yes, and you're so right about that.
Kristen
Right. Because people who are participating are going to ask you, hey, you want to be in mine, right? Because participants are like me. They host too. They host and participate. But with online giveaways, like, like you said, it's kind of hard to find your first one because you have to be in those circles to even know. Like I'm noticing in the bundle world, a lot of people use giveaway and bundle interchangeably like it's the same thing.
22:42 Giveaways vs. Bundles Confusion
And it's not. It's not the same thing.
Because if you went to a person who does giveaways and this is a thing, people who know about giveaways but don't know about bundles. Crazy, right? They'll go, but go to go, wait a minute, this isn't a giveaway. What is this? Because in a giveaway you're paying to play and they see something for free and they're like, versus I see this a lot when people say giveaways and bundles and someone doesn't know that it's really a giveaway and not a bundle and they're charging bundle people.
Like, what do you mean this is not a bundle to give? What is this? I have to pay to be in this, right? Like, both people are like, I don't understand what's going on here. But in a giveaway, the thing is, is that finding that first one is a little bit harder. And I think it's harder nowadays than it was before because these events have a list size requirement of 5,000. So to be in that room where you have 5,000, to be in that room, you're like, oh, like it's, it's, you got to have a 5,000 person email list to be in that room now.
And so There was one where I was invited to.
Unfortunately, I turned it down where the list size requirement was 10,000.
Julie
Okay.
Kristen
And I'm again, I don't have it. Just transparency. I don't have a 10,000 person email list. Let's just— I don't have that. But I got invited from the host because they had done this giveaway in the past and Kristen outperformed the people with 10,000 persons. So she was like, I know you don't have 10,000, but you brought so many opt-ins and your list was so responsive. You want to come back? And I'm like, I can't have a conflict.
But the thing is, is that finding that first one is a little harder because you got to have the list size requirement now.
Like, again, I— and I'm just being totally transparent because I've been doing this for so long. My email list is very engaged. People know what I can bring to the table in a giveaway. They're willing to waive that list size requirement for me versus some of you who are listening. It's going to be a lot harder because you have to have that 5,000-person email list. To even be considered, to even be in the room where you would hear about those things.
24:35 Uncertainty in List Signups
Julie
You know what, I'm like, I'm— as you're speaking, I'm thinking, and I'm like, I think I've been in a giveaway before, and also the list size was waived for me because my list, in it, by experience, I could kind of guesstimate how many people would sign up, and I met the requirements on that, on that like part of it. However, it's hard to know. You can't estimate how many people on your list are going to sign up for, for these types of things.
You just don't know. It's, it's a metric that is very hard to, um, forecast, right? But that's happened to me before where the list size was, uh, waived. I mean, my list size was still, still good. Like, I've been sitting at like because I clean it consistently, like maybe twice a year, right? So I've been kind of at the 3,500, like, mark for, you know, and then I go up and then, and then I clean it and then I go up.
But like, cleaning my list is so satisfying to me.
But, and then, you know, well, no, because then you're just closer to your ideal people. And an engaged list is better than a list of, of like 5,000, 6,000 people that, you know, don't even open your emails. So But that being said, I wanted to add to that also, like, it's also making sure that the audience matches your audience. You don't want to join things just to join things, right? Like, first of all, when we're all of— when we are in all of these things, don't be that person that doesn't promote, because, you know, you—
Kristen
right, right.
Julie
Help a sister out here.
Kristen
We're both hosts, we know this.
Julie
Yes, be the person who's gonna go full on and promote, help the host. We put in a work into our events to help all of us together. So when we're doing our part in the promotion, but that means that it's one or two emails less from your marketing calendar because we need to continue marketing our own stuff, right?
So making sure that it aligns with our marketing calendar, but also being selfish and choosing events, whether it's a bundle or even a giveaway, and you're ready to pay like $97 or $200 to be in a giveaway, but if it's not the right audience, if it's not fit, but it's like, I don't know, like, you know, someone super awesome, like, it makes no difference. Like, you're not gonna get the leads, like, or the right leads anyway, right?
Kristen
Exactly. And that's why with giveaways it's kind of interesting because you're paying, so you're gonna be, you're gonna be obviously selectively choosy about which, because you're paying, right? And it's funny with bundles, I find that most people tend to how we say, kind of let that rule go a little bit. Like, oh, this sounds close because it's free. But I found the bundles where they are very specific, and I know that my ideal client's going to sign up for that and wanting those resources, those are the ones that do the best.
Those are the ones that do the best. And those are also the ones where I'm willing to pay for extra visibility. There was a, um, a bundle that was happening last year where I knew, like I read the title, I'm like, this is my ideal client. Like, this is exactly what I help people with.
And I signed up for it and I paid the extra little bit. I think it was like $50 just for some extra visibility and got over 100 opt-ins. I was like, okay, that was worth it. Like I paid $50, 100 opt-ins. That's, that's, that's $0.50 an opt-in. I'm okay with this. This is great. It worked out perfectly fine.
And those and I've and of course, like every other good contributor, you tag the people who come from that bundle or giveaway you're in and was able to track the sales from that and got some sales from that bundle. And to me, that was even more worth it that I did the extra visibility to pay for it. So like you said, you really want to make sure in both cases, especially in a giveaway because you're paying for it, you really want to make sure that audience is aligned and it's a really good fit.
But most importantly, that's something not only will your ideal client sign up for, but going, hey, maybe there's something in there for me. Right? Like going, okay, like that's something I'm interested in.
Julie
Yeah, yeah, I love that. And also, like, usually, usually for the most part, we are able to have funnels attached to our free thing as well, right? Like, like your upsell or whatever, so long as you follow the guidelines of the host's event, right? Sometimes they don't allow it, but usually you're allowed to have your upsell or your bump or whatever.
Which you can make sales on the back end of it. Like, and like, some I do, like, sometimes depending on what it is, sometimes some more than others. But like, then I'll see the sales come in from a bundle I'm in, I'm like, this is awesome, right?
Kristen
Exactly. And I will say that's something the online giveaway world is slowly catching up to that, because the beginning, again dating myself back in 2014, it was You can't email to the people who come on about your offers. You can't have an upsell. And that was— we're on lock for 2 weeks and you're like, what am I going to do with these leads? And so the online giveaway world is slowly, slowly catching up and going, hey, you can have tripwires and one-time offers.
Okay, you can email people, you know, and have them go through a funnel. And when I host, I 100% encourage people to do that because a lot of people don't understand my background is actually Facebook ads. That's my background. That's what I did before all this list building stuff.
I was helping people with their launches with Facebook ads. And so when I started getting into giveaways, I was one of the first people to be like, yeah, put a tripwire, put a one-time offer. And people are like, oh, you're letting them do that in the giveaway? It's like, yes, because— and I would want to explain it to like people were coming in, they fully understood because as someone who does Facebook ads, one of the biggest ways to recoup your investment is that email sequence or that tripwire on the other end?
And what better way to test out that whole process than a giveaway or a bundle?
30:42 Risk-Free Funnel Testing Strategy
Julie
Yeah.
Kristen
What better way to do it where you know you're gonna get 100 people at least, hopefully, on your landing page and you're literally seeing how the funnel works, where the landing page converts, if people are buying it. Like, this is a full-blown, no-risk test on looking and seeing if you're going to run ads to this funnel, would this work? And I was one of the first people did that for online giveaways.
And I've just kept that going since 2019, going, oh no, you will have— and some people don't have it, which is fine. But I always tell people, if you ever want to consider ads in the future, this is your best testing ground to do that, especially the bundle when it's free, right? A giveaway you're paying, I get it, that it's almost like putting a little bit of ad spend. But in a bundle, it's literally no risk.
In a bundle, it is free. Like, you should be taking advantage of that and looking at those numbers in your funnel to be like, oh wow. And that's how I find out if it's worth putting ads to, because I'm like, okay, this was warm traffic, right? Or semi-warm traffic.
Okay, this may be worth putting out there and actually putting some ads to it and really seeing what this can do.
Julie
Yeah, and it's surprising sometimes the sales that you make on the back end. It's like, oh, like, and it's all like fun because you're not expecting it. Um, But like, like in— let's talk a little bit about paying to be part of something, because some people will stop at that, right? And, and, and like I have, I've paid for things, but I've also sometimes I'm like, now I'm— I don't really want to pay for something when I can be in all these bundles, right?
And I know you've talked about it already a little bit, but like maybe some of the benefits of like, like allowing ourselves to see it more as an investment instead of like, oh, I gotta pay to be in this. And like just changing our mindset around that, you know what I mean?
Kristen
Oh, I know exactly what you mean. And there are people, you know, who are like, like you said, I just want to be in the bundle, whatever. I think what's really important, and this started all the way back in 2014 for me, and again, because I come from that school of online giveaways first versus bundles, I was so big about my numbers, right? Because I'm paying. So I want to know how many opt-ins.
So there's 3 stats I measure after every giveaway and bundle. I don't care what I do. There's 3 stats. Number 1 is how many opt-ins I got.
Number 2 is how many new opt-ins I got, because believe it or not, some people from your list will sign up for your thing.
33:04 Tracking Opt-In and Retention
Julie
They will.
Kristen
So I want to know how many new opt-ins I got. And then I want to know what is the percentage of opt-ins that stay on my email list after 30 days, right? So after all the unsubscribes, you know, how many of you guys are really in it for the long haul after 30 days? You got 30 days of emails. How many of you guys are actually going to stay? Those are the 3 most important stats that matter to me when I'm going to give away or about bundle.
So when I see those stats, especially if I'm doing a bundle for the first time, you know, I'm like, okay, how did it go? And me and my team were looking at those stats, it's like, okay, that's great, we did it. Now let's put some money behind it and see how this looks, right? And so for me, the biggest part is where am I going to be featured? Okay, so I shouldn't say this, but I'm gonna say this because this is true transparency.
There's a bundle, that I want to pay to be extra in.
Julie
Okay.
Kristen
And I was looking at the 3 price points. Of course, my eye went to the cheapest one, right? Because that's what you happen. I looked at it, I was like, okay, all right, cool, I might get that. And then I went to the middle one, I'm like, okay, a little more expensive, but what's in that? And I looked at it and I was like, okay, out of those 5 things, I only really want one of those.
And see, this is where, again, transparency, people, this is where I was like, I can game the game. So the one thing I wanted in the middle thing, the host offers that for literally half the price of the package. So I was like, oh, so I could just buy this one thing and then go back to her sales page and buy the one thing I wanted. And I just saved 50% getting the two things I really wanted.
I was just like, okay, that's what we're going to do. It's just like, but I think, and I'm being totally transparent here because that's how my mind thinks. Because I'm looking at, for me, no offense, having my logo on your page, that I don't care. Nobody cares about the logo on the page. Okay, I'm gonna be honest, I don't. I want to know, am I— is my free gift going to be highlighted to the opt-ins?
I want to know. And then if it is, is it a group email or a solo email? Because that matters too. Um, is that email sent during the bundle or giveaway, or is it sent after when they're trying to redeem all their stuff and it's the full list of opt-ins.
Like, so I'm like, okay, before and after, solo or group email. Or when people say, I love this one, this is my favorite one, I'm going to send a solo email to my whole entire email list, which is separate from the giveaway or bundle about your free gift. And I'm like, yes, please click. So my thing is, especially from someone whose their background is Facebook ads, my most of my experiences with online giveaways I'm looking at if I'm going to spend dollars with you, how many more opt-ins can I get?
What are the biggest exposure points in your packages that allow me to get in front of those people and get more? That's the most important thing. I don't care about being in your— I don't care about being in your— on your pages. But I will say there is one little thing that most people miss in sponsorship packages and bundles that I found actually makes a difference. and it's something. And so basically that's a new thing.
I love it. I've been doing it in my giveaways and bundles, and because I like it so much now, is being in the swipe copy. I know that sounds crazy, but you know how many contributors just copy and paste the swipe copy and don't change it?
Julie
A lot.
Kristen
And so if your free gift— and this is something I've been like actually kind of testing, and like I said, now I do it in my giveaways and bundles— is I've noticed when I'm in the swipe copy I get more outline and I'm talking and I'm just talking, I don't pay for anything extra, you know, whatever. This person said you're in the swipe copy. I'm like, cool, right? Now this, this, what happened was this bundle host was doing an experiment.
They're like, hey, since you submitted your stuff first, I'm putting you in the swipe copy. Great. Put me in the swipe copy. I didn't pay for anything extra. And I've been in bundles with this host before.
I normally get 35 to 50 opt-ins in their list building bundle. That one little thing, that one little thing gave me 75 opt-ins. And I was like, awesome. Oh, okay, so we need to pay to be in the swipe copy. Like, yes. And you will find that little thing is usually in with another bigger package. But, um, it's something I've been offering in my giveaways or bundles. Like, hey, if you pay for this, I'm also going to put you in the swipe copy because a lot of people don't change the swipe copy.
37:20 Boosting Opt-Ins Through Exposure
And so when people see that in sent to them, what do they do? Their mind gets fixated on those free gifts, so they just kind of hunt for them for familiarity, which is interesting, right?
So, um, so that's something I'm like, oh wow, I didn't know. And again, just because it worked once, right, we got to keep trying it, right? So I kept trying it and experimenting, and sure enough, that really does make a little bit of a difference. So I found that normally I'm getting 35 to 50 or 50 to 60. Now I'm getting 50 to 75, sometimes 80 opt-ins just being mentioned in the swipe copy.
And I was like, oh, this is great. Okay, just that little thing like really, really, really helps. So again, going back to— and again, going back to my point of what is something where I can be exposed to the audience to get more opt-ins? And being in the swipe copy is one of those things. So when I'm looking at paying That's what I'm looking at is what— how much exposure can I get?
How many opt-ins will that really help me with? And then of course, bottom line is, is it worth— is it worth the price? And I hate to say it, for me, most of the time it is because again, I come from a Facebook ads, online giveaway background.
So for me, most of the price points are like, oh yeah, if I get this amount or let's say I get one person to buy this low ticket thing, yeah, it's totally worth it, right? Like If I get 100 opt-ins and I get 2 people who buy a $97 thing, oh, that more than makes up for it. So you really have to be looking at it from an investment standpoint of either A, making your money back on the back end, right?
How many low-ticket sales you need from this one thing? Or in my case, how many opt-ins would it be worth it? Because with me, with Facebook ads, I'm looking at $1 to $2 an opt-in, you know, when I do my own ads. So you need to fit in that tight category of if I'm paying $50, you're getting, Kristin, at least 50 opt-ins.
Julie
Yeah, right.
Kristen
I would like 50 opt-ins optimally from this extra from what I'm already getting.
39:21 Reaching New Audiences Strategically
Julie
And you know, another good, good point I think is also like a different— it's a different audience as well, right? Like you're tapping into a whole nother, a whole new audience as well. So, um, you know, like it's, it's good to be in bundles and giveaways and even summits, but, you know, making sure that you kind of differentiate. Like, like I got an invitation for a summit for May and it was an audience like completely out of the norm.
So I'm like, I'm in. Like, this sounds like something I should be in. So, you know, I mean, no, like, so keeping that in mind as well. So just like I think that, you know, it's, it's not a bad thing to pay for to be in, in these different types of events as well. But, um, I, I'm going to go completely off topic here, but like, because I've been having this conversation the last couple of days and I'm like, you know, there's a place for summits, there's a place for bundles, and there's a place for giveaways and giveaways.
You said it's more of a little bit of a secret society or whatever, right? And I've been invited to giveaways. So sometimes I don't miss, I don't, I don't meet the requirements for the email list, but, um, I didn't, I didn't know that that was a normal thing anyway. But I was talking about how, like, so little leads come from summits and it's annoying. And I was like, hmm, but they have a place.
They have a place in this online world, in our business, because I think that it gives us the visibility, right? Because you're on stage, you're talking, people listen to you, they watch you, even though they might not necessarily download your freebie and get on your email list. I think that there's a place for summits. And for us to be part of them. But I mean, me and you, we've been in all kinds of summits.
I think that now we can be choosy of the summits we decide to be in. Right?
Kristen
Right.
Julie
Have you felt that the same thing for you?
Kristen
Yes. But the thing about summits is that— and this is where I tell my clients, yeah, giveaways and bundles are great. But so one of them in one of my programs, we specifically focus on giveaways, bundles, and summits.
Julie
Okay.
Kristen
We talk about— that's all we talk about. And a lot of people think that's so interesting. Summits? Why? You're always in giveaways and bundles. I'm like, Hold on, hold on, let me explain. Because with summits, you need that authority. Yes, you need that authority.
Julie
Yeah.
Kristen
And what a lot of people— where I find that people don't take advantage of summits is this is where you can connect with people, where you can connect with people that you normally don't meet and people that are on your wish list to collaborate with. A great example, we We were on the Collab to Sell Summit with Nicole Baby recently together, and my panel was with Kate Cordesmeyer. No, not Kate Cordesmeyer. God, I forgot. I'm like totally blanked out who it was now.
It wasn't Kate Cordesmeyer. It was—
Julie
it'll come to you after.
Kristen
Yeah, right. It'll come to me way after. But my point is there was 4 of us on this panel. One person I knew, Sandra DeFreitas. I didn't know her. And the other 2 people, I didn't know who they were. And what's so interesting is I didn't know those two other people. Now, now when I say I don't know them, like, I don't know if they're married, kids, like, I don't know all the personal stuff.
I do know their business accomplishments. I've seen them around in the bundle summit world. I, I know, I know of their name and I know of them. I don't know if they knew of me, but the point is we did a, we did a panel together. Now we have this connection. So now when I go to them, I can say, hey, remember we were on that panel together in that summit? And they'll go, oh yeah. And I'm— again, I'm attached to the graphic.
So they go, oh, you, that's you.
It's like, yeah, that was me in the graphic. That's me. But now we have this connection. We were in a panel together. We talked, we shared ideas. You know, we, we, we came together through this person, the summit host. And so now I'm not unknown to these people anymore. They know me even though I knew who they were, right? I know who they were.
And I was really giddy about being on this panel. And it was just so interesting because that's how you— this is how you meet people. And so I think that's one thing people really underscore when it comes to summits is that people are on these summits, they just speak, and then they get the opt-ins and they leave. And it's like, that's great. But what you really need to do is take advantage of those connections you can be making.
Because I'm in a summit right now where I do know the majority of the people on the summit. There are some people that I don't know on the summit. So guess what Kristen's going to do when the summit is over? She's going to reach out to those people and say, hey, just want you to know, I was on the summit with you.
I even got your free gift. I thought it was great. Just, you know, want to just put my, you know, put my little toe in there in your world just to be like, hey, how are you? And so they're gonna be like, oh, we were in a summit. Oh, she got my free gift. Okay, cool. All right. And then they might— and surprisingly, when I do that in summits, I'm always surprised that some of those people go, hey, your name sounds familiar, or no, I know you.
And I'm like, oh, you do? Because I didn't think you know who I was.
44:31 Summits Build Deeper Connections
But just in case you didn't, hi, right? Hi, here I am. So I think what a lot of people don't understand is summits have their own benefit.
That a lot of people don't take advantage of. It's like, yeah, you want to get the opt-ins and everything, but I find that it's much easier to make those connections on a summit than a bundle or a giveaway because you get to hear people speak, you get to hear what they're going to say, you get to hear their thoughts, you get to hear their beliefs, you get to hear like what their specialty is, what their area of genius is.
You don't get to see that in a giveaway or bundle because it's one product, right? And you're like, and it's almost like that kind of defines you. But in a summit interview, yes, you're talking about a particular topic. But like us, we're gonna talk about this, we're gonna talk about that, we're gonna talk about this, we're gonna go here. And you just get so much more knowing about that person than you would in a giveaway or a bundle.
Julie
I love that. And I love your— the differentiation because I think they all have a place together in our business. It's like a package deal. Yeah, yeah, I know this conversation is going longer, but it's so good that it's like Right. Okay, so Kristen, quickly, like, who would you say that giveaways are best for, and who are bundles best for?
And I think like you kind of sprinkled on that throughout.
45:52 Online Giveaways: Levels to Success
Kristen
I used to think online giveaways were great for people just starting out, and they were back in like 2014, '15, '16. But now that it's more of an— I hate to say it— a more of an elite thing. Yeah, it's harder for beginners to get on it unless you unless you know somebody in the giveaway world who's willing to give you that invitation, it's really hard to do that. With bundles, I mean, I feel like you don't have to have an email list if you're just starting out, so why not?
But I think if you're more of an experienced contributor, right, you've been in bundles for a while, you know, the next level up is sponsoring, paying to be in those bundles. And then your email list is bigger, and then you could be like, yeah, let me get that secret pass to the online giveaway, the world, um, because now your email list size, you know, totally meets the size requirements. But I feel like just because you've been in some bundles and your experience, you've been in maybe 10, 15 bundles, like it— there's still more levels to it.
There's way more levels to keep going when it comes to being a contributor in online giveaways and list building bundles.
Julie
And now what about hosting your own? You don't need that, that list size when you host your own, right?
Kristen
Oh my goodness. So I will say, I know we could hold— do a whole new thing in hosting, but I will say this one piece of advice, if those of you are more experienced. Yeah, I always tell my clients the best bundle hosts or online giveaway hosts are normally the people who have been participating for a long period of time. Yeah, because I think it's so important as a host that you know where your contributors are coming from.
So if they're like, why is it this way? You know, like, you could easily put yourself in those shoes. You could take your host hat off and go, okay, contributor hat, why are they upset? Oh, that totally makes sense from their point of view. Like, it's not hard to take the host hat on and put the contributor hat on.
And I think that's really important that once you're a contributor in a lot of these things, because there are a lot of hosts that are in online giveaways and bundles, but they do maybe one giveaway a year or two giveaways a year or two or three bundles a year participating.
But then when they come to hosting it, it's like, do you even know what we're talking about? Do you even feel what I'm saying to you? Do you understand the concern in my feedback to you. And I feel like most of them don't understand that as a contributor because you haven't— you've been out of the game a little bit, right? Like you're not— you don't know the latest thing that contributors are looking for or what really gets them excited.
And I think it's really, really important that if you're going to be a host, that not only that you've been in a few, but I think it's really important that you continue to participate. Like you just don't stop participating because you're a host. I think it's super important that you keep participating so you still have that feeling of like a contributor. But also, most importantly, you know what's the latest and greatest.
You're keeping up with your craft, but also you know what the contributors are looking for. And that's always something that's changing.
Julie
Yeah, I agree 100%, 1000%. I agree. Awesome. Well, this was such a great conversation. Let's wrap up with sharing again Now, like, now that we've discussed it and talked about all the things, let's just share again quickly your freebie and why everybody needs to download it. The Giveaway and Bundle Accessory— I can't even say the Essentials Checklist.
49:09 Streamlining Giveaways and Bundles
Kristen
Yes, because if you are— so hopefully I've— we have piqued your interest about giveaways and bundles. So if you are new to giveaways or bundles, You know, obviously the same information was required. So if you're new now, you're getting all that information and saving yourself time by knowing what assets you need to submit instead of hunting them all down and taking like, you know, 15 minutes to get everything in. Well, taking 30 minutes to an hour to get everything in.
And if you're experienced, you probably have all these assets scattered, right? And so if you're an experienced contributor, this is going to help you put all your assets in one place and literally create a system. So every time you're in a list building bundle or an online giveaway, you're not scattered and looking for things over here, over there. It's all in one place and submission process goes a lot faster.
Julie
Awesome. So I'm going to have that link for you in the show notes if you're listening. And Kristen, thank you so much for being here with me today. It's been so awesome talking to you and getting to know you more. And now I'm like, I can't wait to get the next email about like being in giveaway or, or bundle or whatever, because I know you've got stuff.
Kristen
Oh my goodness. Well, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
Julie
You're so welcome. And if you're listening to this, I will chat with you in the next episode.
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