Hi. This is Paul Zolizer, and welcome to the Awarepreneurs podcast. On this show, we dive deep wisdom from some of the world's leading social entrepreneur. Our goal is to help you increase your positive impact, your profitability, and your quality of life. In before we get into today's topic, I have 1 request. If you could hit subscribe and do a review on your favorite podcast app, it helps more people learn how to have positive impact through values based business. Thank you so much. Today, I am thrilled to introduce you to Diego Tomasina, and our topic is helping companies in Latin America become more inclusive.

Diego is an executive coach who specializes in business diversity, the founder of CoachMap and the regional director, Cassin and Associatesos. His latest book, Come Out, The Ultimate Guide for inclusivity in the business was released in English in September of 2023. In other words, just like a month ago or so, a month and a half ago. Diego, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Paul. I'm so excited to be here. I interview in English, so that's amazing for me. Thank you

so much. And we're audio only podcast listeners. You can't see the cover of the book, but go check it out. The cover is beautiful. We're gonna talk about the book. But before we get to your work now, Diego, what's the short version of your backstory? What would somebody wanna know about you and how you came to this work that would help them understand more about what you're doing now.

That's an amazing question, and I always say that I used to be an accountant, And now I am an activist. You know? Because my my career now, like, working on diversity and inclusion is very attached With being an accountant and going on 2010 to Panama to open the 1st branch of this company, Casin, there. No? So I went as a young person. I was 23 years old. And for me, it was the moment that stepping out of my country, I'm originally from Argentina. I said to me, okay. This is the time I'm gonna live my life, you know, away from my my parents, away from my family friends who Who don't know me and everything, and I started, like, living my, you know, my gay life in Panama. And after a month or or so, I came out to my boss, and I told him, okay.

I'm gay. And he say, because, you know, he always say to me. In you know, we we love you. We support you, but because there's always a but in the things. Watch out With the of the feathers. In Spanish,

what are they called?

No? Watch out with the glittering, everything that just so don't be too gay, Basically. So at that moment, I had to came back to the closet because I felt very, like, you know, Very, very worried on, like, my sexuality was going to, like, Take everything down, everything that we were building in Panama, a new accounting firm, you know, this industry very, like, strict And numbers and people and suits, all that. So I say, okay. This is my life now. So I had to, like, Work for the company, like, okay, in the closet. And after, like, 2, 3 years, I met my my my husband. He's from Guatemala, and we got married in Argentina. No? And at that moment, I wanted to post the a picture of my marriage as Anyone would do.

At that moment, I felt, you know, like, so scary so scary too that I remember that this, like, call running through my spine And say, okay. If I post this, like, everything is gonna disappear. All the hard work of these last 3 years of the accounting firm and everything It's gonna, like okay. I'm gonna, like, blew it up. But I say, I don't mind. So I did it. I post it. You know, I had, like, very good reception of the picture.

Everything was the same. Congratulations. I had some, like, haters because there's always haters in these things. But at that moment, I say, okay. I need to start, like, helping others not to feel like that. I need to, like, start helping people To close that gap that sometimes in Latin America and some other, like, countries and areas, people feel that You cannot be gay and be professional. You cannot be, like, part of the LGBT plus community and have a successful life. And that's when I started to work on, like, Different foundations.

I started with Pride Connection. We're gonna talk about that later, but that's a little bit of me. So that's how I changed from being an accountant in the closet to an out of the class activist and diversity cult.

My my dad was an accountant growing up, and so I have some frame of reference point. You know? It is one of the more kinda buttoned down professions one could choose. Is that fair to say?

Yes. Of course. And I besides, everyone always used to said to me is, you don't look like an accountant. Because I was happy, I was, like, you know, like, Very social talking to everyone. I say, what's the stereotype of an accountant? You know? We have that, like, image of, like, May maybe 30 years ago that we didn't have Excel or computers, and the content was with, you know, His little book like

the little pencil and the book. Right?

So that's not so I've never, like, really felt an accountant, But it made me who I am now, so I'm very Yeah. Very grateful of that profession.

Well, I'm sorry you had that experience of not feeling like it was okay to be you in a more public way, and I'm so glad that you use that to the great work to to, like, inspire the great work that you do now. So what did that look like? So it's, you know, mid 20 tens, and you're married, and you're like, woah. I don't know if I can do this, but you do it anyway, and that sparks a conversation at your workplace. Like, walk us through the process of, like, Diego the accountant to Diego starting to put his toes into the water of conversation about inclusivity at work.

It's very interesting because at that moment, maybe, like, 2013, 14, I was starting my coaching certification. It was a life coaching certification, And I did all the process all the months there, and it was one one of the activities that I did with my, like, Let's see. Let's say teacher, you know, with my main coach there. And he made me think of my future, you know, like, 10 years in the future. And I say, okay. What you wanna what you see, what you what you are doing, what you're working with, I imagine this, like, Consulting firm, like, working on LGBT matters, on diversity. And he asked me, okay. What did you do before? In And then he asked me, okay.

What what did you do before and before and before? So he brought me to the present. It was a very successful activity for me, a very Very real a realizing moment, you know, an moments for me because I say, okay. If I wanna be that in, like, 5, 10 years, I I need to start doing something small now, and it's not like learning about all these. So that's when I started joining the foundation. It's called Comvibe Panama. We created the 1st congress on diversity and inclusion in the country. You have to know that Panama It's a very, like, traditional country. It's a very small country.

It's only 4,000,000 people, so everyone know each other. You know? But at that moment, being a foreigner for me was an asset because I didn't mind of what people would say. That's something that if you were a local, you know, you always have, like, a cousin, a mother, someone there. They say, oh, look what what he's doing. So at that moment, I started working with the foundation. We brought pride connection. That pride connect pride connection is a network that is in different countries in Latin America that get together many companies to share best practices on LGBT matters. And at this time, you know, 2015, There wasn't much about this unless in Spanish and in Latin America.

So we started working, like, little by little, like, Copying in some way what companies were doing in the US, in Europe, and trying to tropicalize, in, you know, all those politics, all those activities that they're doing, we started working very, very slowly. Now after, like, almost 7 years, we have a network in Panama of almost 40 companies. Most of them are multinational companies. You know, our main goal now is to reach the local the local companies, you know, companies by Panamanians, And that's the most difficult thing now and something it's a thing that most countries have to deal with because it's it's something it's like Working with multinational companies that have all these policies, all these great place to work thing, and everything, but Come on. Bring that to, you know, the store in the corner of your house. So how do you create more inclusive and diverse space? And without without money also because that's another thing or with a very few dollars. You know?

Yeah.

So I started, like, very, like

So so before you go forward, let let me just wind back a little because you said something that's really important, and I don't wanna lose it because a lot of people listen to grow something, and and you said something really important, Diego. You said this this coach and this process, like, you looked ahead, and you're like, alright. It's a big consulting firm, and then you I've heard the term called reverse engineering. Right? Like, okay. You wanna get here in 10 years, and then, okay, okay, where do you wanna be in 5 years, or where do you wanna be in two and a half years, and you just keep working backwards until you get yourself moving even if it takes a turn or a twist or a pivot you didn't expect. Now you're moving as opposed to just dreaming. What would you say to somebody who's right in that space right now? Maybe they've taken a few steps or they have that dream, but they're not in 2012. Let's say we're like, alright.

I kinda wanna move, but I'm not exactly sure what to do.

That's an amazing question. I think that I would say that don't get crazy on getting to your goal. You know? Sometimes we got, like, really anxious of, We want everything now, and if we don't have it, we lose that momentum. We low we lose that thing that we wanna go there because we feel like, We are never gonna do it. This is something that I always did in in my different careers as I said, that I always try to, like, break down every activity. So to have, like, small goals, you know, you have to have, like, a main goal, what you want, your desires, your vision, but You have to start, like, 1 step at a time. You know? One day at a time, but you have to be very, Constant. You know, you have you need consistency in this.

So many many people say, okay, but I don't have time. I don't have money. I don't have Resources. I say, okay. But sometimes the only thing you need is knowledge and the will to do something. So let's start with the basics. So what do you need to know when you are on that on that when you reach that goal? What what is the first thing that you Can do to, like, keep start, you know, this rolling. So this is something that you need.

You need to, think on small actions. You know, getting to know people, I think that's that's key for me. The the networking. You know? There's always people Who can help you, who know more than you do, and you have to accept that. Because we are growing, we grow like talking with other people and people who say, okay. Oh, your idea is the best or your idea is the worst. You can that idea to something different. You know, the essence is there, but just rethink about that.

So you have to we need to listen. We need to listen a lot, You know, in this in this process.

That's great advice. Just today, there's something I'm working on. I'll tell you about it soon, listeners. Still in the social entrepreneur space, but it's different, and it's it's involving an audience that I haven't worked with before. So I'm working on a very simple, like, pay what you can or pay what you want, like, very simple workshop that we're gonna and partner with a nonprofit, and they have a bigger network than I do. And just get something up and running, and, basically, it's market research. Right? It's like just get into the conversation with real humans who have real questions about this topic area as opposed to, like, trying to make it perfect. Do some market read, like, start, like, stepping into the space and get conversations going.

And I know enough to, like, offer some suggestions, in, but there's some things that I'm still learning about because I'm newer to this space than some of the other things I do. So just like make It's no barrier to entry. If you gave, like, a quarter, you can come. Right? Like like, just get something so that you're, like, contributing to this nonprofit, but it's not about the money. It's about, like, getting this conversation started because it's a really important issue area. Right? So Yeah. And this is possible. Example for my day today.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. It's impossible to have it perfectly. You know? It's like it's very difficult, and some people, they They they wait until okay. No. I need to have the perfect product, the perfect service, the perfect platform, and it's never gonna be perfect. So you like to start, like, doing this trial and error thing, you know, trying to, like, invest, the less possible you can do. Having people, like, on board with your idea, but for that, you need to, like, start talking with people, you know, but and also organizing your time.

This is something that I hear a lot in with entrepreneurs, especially Latin America. They say, okay. No. I need to quit my job in order to start this. No. You need to be organized with your time and, okay, do some sacrifices. Like, for example, don't go out on a Friday night or a Saturday And dedicate that time to start thinking of your of your of your of your app or of your startup or whatever because At least you have an income. In all this process, try always to have, like, a passive income or active income, but you need to have something there.

Or start, Like saving that money, but don't let it say, okay. I'm quitting. I started my my company because you can have luck on that, but it's not the rule generally.

Right. Right. You're describing what would sometimes be called, at least in the US, a lean startup kind of approach. There's a book called The start up if somebody wants more information. And in that language, what what I've heard it called, Diego, is you use your job as your start up funds. Right? There are other pathways. You can get investment. Sometimes people get grants.

So it's not the only way, but it's the most common way that I have seen be successful for the reasons you're talking about because especially impact businesses oftentimes take some time to get up and running. If you quit your job and then you're stressed, we know what that does in terms of the cognition. Like, you don't you're not being as creative. You're just like, oh my gosh. I don't know how I'm gonna pay rent next month or pay my mortgage. That's a hard way to be creative and engaging and, you know, really manage your time well when humans are stressed. We don't do those things so well. So so using yeah.

Using your job as a start up funds is is one tried and true approach to getting traction.

Yeah. The main investment that you need is your time. So that's what you need for any anything that you wanna start is okay. Dedicate your time. And, of course, if you if If you don't have time or you feel stressed because you can't pay your rent, you cannot be creative as you said. But sometimes we don't want to do that sacrifice of time, and that's everything you have

to do. You know? Yeah. So now let's go back. So so now we were like, were we, like, late 20 tens? Are we 2020? Like, break connection network. You bring it to Panama. Things are starting to move. Like, how did that work? Okay. You still kept your accounting job, and now, like, people did did companies start calling you? Did you start doing speaking gigs? Were you doing consulting? Like, what did it look like once it did start to get a little momentum?

Yes. In fact, as, as while I was living in Panama until 2019, Everything was like, you know, like, I don't know. You know? For it was volunteering thing with pride connection. We're having organizing all this this congress, all these monthly meetings that we have with the companies, but I didn't see a penny on that. And when the pandemic hit, I was already in Miami. So by that time, I had the idea of the book, and I had been learning, you know, for the last 5 years on the basics on diversity and inclusion, what what companies needed, what you need to to talk about, what benefit you have to give to the employees, and everything. So during the pandemic, I had all this idea to say, okay. I I have time.

That was that was something that we all had. Yeah. So I say to put everything in a book. I need a book in Spanish. So that's it's called come out closet. And in that book, I put all that I've been learning those 5, 6 years, plus Some other good skills that companies were doing in the US, in Europe, and I translated them to Spanish. Now so I add, You know my coaching part or how you work how to work with leaders, just started working on this side. How how I said that you have this mindset that sometimes people in Latin America or in very religious countries have when it comes to the LGBT matters.

So I started working on that. I plain I wrote a book. We launched at the end of 2020, And that's when everything starts trolling. So I did expect, you know, to to become public with this. I always said that I was going to write a book for myself because I always wanted to write a book. I also think that The audience of the book, I thought it was going to be mainly, you know, like companies, managers, Leaders, but suddenly, it turns that, you know, many parents were buying the book. Many Young adults who are buying the book because they they they read the the title. You know? Like, okay.

Coming out. Come out. Okay. Something gay. People start to say, okay. How I started to receive messages. I think my my son or my daughter may be gay, lesbian. What can I do? People young kids also said, okay.

I'm starting this career in law, but in but I am in Colombia, for example. I don't think I could never do that. So I started receiving all these messages and say, okay. Wait. There's another community here. Besides the all the managerial stuff, we need to create a community. So that's why I started to Interview people on my socials to tell their story of coming out only in the worst place because we need these, like, you know, like, examples That, as I said before, being successful and being out of the closet and living authentically is possible. So That's just a mixture of things.

You know? I have the managerial stuff and all the talks to companies, but also doing this, like, Social thing. So that that's where I am now, you know, trying to deal with both words because I love, of course, like, interviewing people and helping the community. You know, I need, of course, the the money of the companies to cop them on the workshops that I love. I love all that. Now I'm like I I feel like now I'm, like, Living that dream that I had in 2012, you know, that and it's it's super nice, and I'm really enjoying this.

Nice. So you were saying, Diego, that you spent time learning about what it looked like inclusion and diversity in the workplace in Europe and North America. Like, what would you say having done that work and now you know, we'll talk about the work you're doing now, but you've got some experience. You've written a book and then translate it in Spanish, and now it's in English. What's similar about doing diversity and inclusion work in Latin America to other places that you know about, and what's different? What are some of the unique suggestions you have about inclusion in the workplace when it comes to Latin America.

Wow. I think that in the US and in Europe, Sometimes we we take for for granted all the things. Not talking about diversity, inclusion. It is, of course, first with incorporating the the women into a worse place, then all the Afro community into a workplace and the native people also. And now the LGBT things maybe, like, mainstream, we can say. No? Is it Yeah. You have to talk

people's name on Zoom, and I'll say, you know, they, them, or he, him, or she, her, or whatever. Like, the that's pretty common even in the workplace. Right?

Yeah. It's pretty common here in the US. You know,

in the US. Absolutely.

And companies, I think, that feel much, like, open to start exploring. You know? Okay. Putting the rainbow flag in your logo. You can have some backlashes, and you need to also how to manage some crisis. Like, for example, this year with Budweiser or Target, it was, like, terrible how they manage that. But in I think that companies are, like, more out there in a way because they know they need to have this. No? It's part of the business case of each company. If you don't have it if you don't have it or, like, let's put in, let's say, like, quotas because sometimes we talk about quotas here.

You know? Okay. You need a gay person. You need a female person. You need a trans person. And companies are more like, okay, trying to, Okay. How can we handle this in the best way possible? At that at that that's the conversation here in the US, and we have money to that, Most company. So let's go back to Latin America. It's another thing.

1st, there's no money for anything related to diversity and inclusion Because it's something new. It's something that started, like, talking about, like, 5 years may maybe. Because I think that we have other, like, Priorities here. No. You have to, like, always handle with difficult economies or, you know, how to make And Smith, so okay. What's more important, to talk about diversity or to have a job? No? So that's the thing. Also, pride In Latin America are more new in a way with some exceptions like Argentina, Sao Paulo, Mexico, but all the rest of the brides Are kind of new. They have less than 10 years.

So companies are just trying to deal with that, and there's still more They are more afraid to be open on talking out LGBT plus matters because of their customers, Because of society, as I said before, like, most countries in Latin America are very religious, are very traditional, People have a very good bad time when they come out to their families. I have, like, many friends that were kicked off of their whole houses when they were, like, 16 years old. The violence to the LGBT plus community, special to the trans community, is, like, really, Really terrible. You know? It's like all the statistics there in in especially in Central America and Brazil, We have the most numbers of trans people kill or, like, LGBT plus murders there. Okay. You say, How can we help with this? How can we what can we do? And the first thing is you you need to educate people. You need to start, like, in Making more visible the community and start, like, putting a face to the letter. You know? Because when you say, okay, When you just talk about, like, gay people, non binary people, lesbians, and for many people, just a letter and something that it's, like, bad.

No. But when you say, oh, you know that Rosita, who is the sister of, Maria is a lesbian

My cousin, I don't know. Right? Yeah.

So you're touching in, like, this empathy process with people, and it's very slowly. So Another thing that's interested is interesting is, like, it changed the focus depending on the on the country. For example, in Argentina, Brazil, Sao Paulo, mainly, and Mexico, now we are talking about, like, the trans inclusion to the workspace. I'm talking about the nonbinary people in the workplace, getting our nonbinary IDs and passports. But for example, that conversation Now it's impossible in Guatemala, in Panama, where you need to start, like, Telling people not to kill us. You know? So it's in interesting that in, like, in this region, even though we talk the same language on everything and with the of course, while we share many things. The the the focus on our community is completely different. You know? Because some countries are go go ahead on this.

Some are, say, like, 20 years, like, like, back, I mean, regarding human rights. So it's very interesting working with the full region, and that's something that I do. I learn also to to manage my My speech every time I talk with different countries because it's not the same way I tackle a company in Honduras As an IT company in Colombia, for example, be because the issues are completely different.

That's super helpful. Thanks so much, Diego. In and almost hesitate to put it out just because I know they're really overloaded, but we're so blessed here in Albuquerque and in New Mexico. We have an incredible trans resource center that's certainly well known throughout the US and worldwide. So I'm gonna put a link down in the show notes. If you do reach out and can help them out, I know they're overextended, but they do world class work and have incredible resources. That's the Trans Resource Center here in Ricky. Big shout out to them.

So let's do this. Let's do a quick break and hear a word from our sponsor. Sir. When we come back, Diego, I wanna talk a little bit more about what does it look like when you go into a company, how do people bring you in, what are the kind of agreements you have and what the response has been and also about the book itself. But before we do that, just a quick break and in a word from our sponsor. Are you a social entrepreneur with a powerful message eager to amplify your impact and connect with a wider audience? Hi. I'm Paul Zellizer, the host of Awarepreneurs, and I'm thrilled to introduce you to a game changer for purpose driven individuals like yourself. Introducing the Impact Podcast accelerator, where we're not just talking about making a difference, but we're showing you how to actually do it through the power of podcasting.

Our accelerator is tailored for impact focused entrepreneurs like yourself. Ready to launch and grow your own podcast or to be a compelling guest on aligned shows. In the world of podcasting, interviews are the heart of meaningful conversations. The average podcast interview is 30 to 42 minutes long, a format that allows you to dive deep into the nuances of your topic. And it's more than just talking points. It's about creating a profound emotional connection with your audience leading to better outcomes for your mission. Imagine the impact you can make by sharing your authentic story and expertise. Our grounded approach ensures you don't get lost in jargon, but instead, build genuine connection with your listeners.

Join us at the Impact Podcast accelerator, and let's turn your passion into a powerful voice for change. Visit awarepreneurs.com backslash accelerator now to learn more, elevate your impact, connect authentically, and make a difference with the Impact Podcast accelerator because your message deserves to be heard. In So welcome back, everybody. We are here with Diego Tommasino, and we are talking about helping companies in Latin America become more inclusive. And In the 2nd part of the show, Diego, we start to shift a little bit more. I oftentimes joke about putting on our entrepreneur glasses. So we got the store. We have a sense.

Thank you so much for that breakdown of, like, how Guatemala might be different than Mexico City or Colombia might be different than Brazil. Really, really appreciate that. So we've got a little nuance here in each situation, each company, even each city and within the same company. You know? I was in Colombia not too long ago, and we spent some time in Medellin, and then we spent some time in Bogota. And Medellin and Bogota are really different culturally in many ways. Food can be a little different, but certainly culturally, the pace just feels very, very, very different, and everybody who lived there said the same thing. So that's an example that I just that was, like, 2 months ago, two and a half months ago that I was there. So when you get a call and somebody's saying, okay, Diego, like, we're ready as a company or at least I want to and explore with my company about what it could look like to kind of make this safer place, make this a better place, and make this company and more inclusive place.

Like, where would you start? Who tends to where do that conversation is it like with the CEO. Is it somebody who's in middlemen? Like, how does that knock on your, like, you know, symbolic door. How does that usually happen, and what are some of the early things you're trying to, you know, when you're starting to think, is there a way I can be helpful to this company?

Okay. I I think I have, like, 2 types of companies. You know? Some of some of the companies call me or just send me an email and say, okay. We don't have anything about diversity in We don't need we don't have anything. We want to start doing the process. And those

Blank sheet of paper help us, like yeah. Okay.

And I love those companies because you have so much things to do there. And generally, in those cases, first, we start with with our workshop On the different aspects of diversity, you know, not only the LGBT plus thing. We talk about gender, age, abilities, neurodiversity, of course, LGBT matters. You know, we talk also about of racism, discrimination in the workplace. And this is very interesting because in in Latin America, there's been some some surveys that they say that at least, like, 30%, almost 40% of the workforce had been, like have gone through some, like, harassment, say, you know, in different aspects, And especially the LGBT plus community. And when this happens, because, you know, you don't you don't have these policies against against discrimination, Many people do not dare to say to, raise their arm and say, okay. I'm being discriminated. And and why that happens because you don't have the mechanisms to do all these denounces to the company.

You know? And sometimes people say, okay. My my voice is not gonna be heard. It's gonna be, like, detrimental for me, my workplace, and that happens a lot. So that's something that we have to take in consideration in Latin America. So those are the most challenging cases. And then you have all the companies that have started a process On diversity and inclusion, generally, the the biggest topics and the more advanced topics are LGBT plus, Gender, of course, the black community in the workspace. What they are working on or what they aim is to get more allies, No. And to get all these ERGs, the employees resources group, you know, this group of people who share, like, similar characteristics in the workplace To start gaining momentum because something that happens not only in Latin America, but also in the US and Europe Is that you have all these groups of people trying to change the company, you know, creating these safe spaces and bringing all these the topics that are, that we need to be aware of, but people do that as a volunteer thing.

And you have to keep doing your job. You are the financial person. You are the marketing person, and you say, when do I handle diversity? No. Give me a break. Give me some time to do that. No one is paying me to do this. That's the most cases that I see With the exception of, like, these big companies, multinational companies that they have the diversity Leader, the diversity the the chief diversity officer. But, generally, most of the companies fall in the middle, you know, like, trying to be diverse, But, okay, when do I do diversity? So that's a thing.

That's very interesting because that's a challenge that most people diversity and inclusion is dealing with now. You know, this diversity stress that that we have.

In Beautiful. So let's start to shift a little to the book. I'm super excited to let our audience know about it. So you you said earlier. Like, this was the book that you felt like you needed to write. It was really important, and that there were kinda 2 audiences. There's this more kind of business leadership or workplace focused audience and then people who this really touched on a personal level like my I think my kid's gay, and this is a book that could be a resource for us, and I wanted to reach out to you. So, like, you already told us that that was a surprise.

That 2nd group, that was not the intended audience. But when you're writing it for that business audience, what were you hoping the book was gonna accomplish.

1st, I think I wanted to, like, to tell my story Because as I said before, we need to, like, have people, quite examples for us, for our community. You know, when I was growing up, I didn't have many, like, gay persons in in leadership spaces. We didn't have, like, gay people or LGBT plus people in the TV, in series, in movies, or if they have they were the bad person or they were, like, you know, very, Very ridiculous, you know, very flamboyant type and all that. Say, okay. We need to start, like, pouring our voices out there to give people, like, Let's say, like, hope. You know? Because we need to have these role models to do. And with let's say, like, I I don't know a happy ending, but with a successful story behind that. So we need to start to change the narrative of History in some things.

And in a way is that you need to tell us your story. We have to tell our stories And give voices to all that people who don't have a voice or they lost their voices because they wanted to live their true life. So That's why the the book starts with my own story. You know? That part in Panama coming back to the closet and all this process. Each cap chapter also the story of different, people coming out in the workplace. Then, you know, all these tips, a coach To start, like, challenging your belief. Challenging your belief has nothing to do with challenging your values, But to start, like, creating more empathy with others. So as I said before, is that you need to put, like, a face to the letters Why is this important to talk about diversity or inclusion? And some people say, okay.

But, no, trans people or non binary people are just a very few. No. Just a very small part of the population. All LGBT plus are part small part of the population. But there are people in There are people that you have to work with if you wanna be successful in your work in your in your company. So and we are not that few. So now, you know, like, Gen z is coming like super strong, and 1 in 5 person people, they say that they are part of the LGBT plus community. With the millennials, my generation, it used to be like 1 in 10 more or less.

But now it's 1 in 5. So how do you deal with that change, With this with this society that's completely changing, what's your company do to attract And retain that talent because that's the main cause that you have as as any company. You know? Like, the All the the part of the process of attracting people to your company. And if they leave, the cost is super big for the company. So what do you do to retain those people? And if you don't have, like, diversity and inclusion policies, they are going to move to another company that they do have them. Yep. So, of course, there's, like, Business case on diversity. Of course, it is.

But it's also a reality, and you have to adapt to the reality. You can't say, no. I don't work with LGBT people. We don't have gay people in our company. How do you know? You don't have a safe space for people to say they are gay, lesbian, trans. You know? That's the difference.

So in terms of the book, what would you say and and I'm gonna ask you both the Spanish edition and the English edition. Right? Separate or you know, they may you may say it's the same, but it might be different. I wanna make room if it's different. What was one of the hardest things about writing the book or one of the most surprising things, and what was one of the most like just bringing you alive joyful or or just awesome things about writing the book. And, again, it might be different in span the 2 versions in Spanish and English. If it's different, I'd be really curious about that.

Yes. I think that the purpose the purpose of each each edition was completely different. Because as I said before, the the edition in Spanish for me was a surprise in many thing. You know? Like, it start, like, doing research, Talking to people and say, okay. Tell me your story of coming out. And and suddenly, I found this, like, social thing. I said, okay. What do I do with this? How do I turn my book into a service, you know, as a or to a product? I've never thought the book to be a product.

But then I say it's okay. I have a product here, and I need to create on all these workshops, these stocks, This company and services, it was very funny because it one of the first time that I had to do, like that someone called me and say, okay. I saw your post. I saw your book. Come to our company and have a talk. I say, what do I talk about?

You just wrote a book about it. Maybe you need to read the book again. Right?

It was it was very funny because I started I enter in a crisis. Say but what do I say? What's the most important thing? And what my husband said, okay. You're a writer. You have your book. Just take your book, each chapter, and put it on a slide. Yeah. It's He was very he he gave me that that part of, like, peace of mind because that first moment for me was, okay. I had to do what what do I do? Now with the English edition, I'm I feel much Mature even though the the the content is the same, you know, like working in a different language, like approaching companies in a different way.

Because I was living in Miami, you know, you can handle most of the companies based in Miami work with Latin America, so that's Simple, but if you want to, like, enter the the English market, the US market, you have to have the book in English. So for me now, that's my presentation card. So now, yes, it it was more like thought as that. Now with this point of maturity, Jose, I don't have in rush if someone asks for my service.

Yeah. That that's my next question. You know? I was just talking to somebody recently in the impact space has a book, and that book sold quite well. I mean, very quite well. This this book sold over 50,000 copies, the knots can back in the old days, that wasn't such a great day. You know, it wasn't such a great number, but people are reading less these days, buying less books because of podcasts and YouTube videos and blog posts and TikTok. There's many ways for us to learn. Right? And so people aren't buying as many books.

So the book from a entrepreneur perspective, a book oftentimes is very, very valuable. You call it your presentation card. Right? It's like It's a way you get known. It gives you a little bit more street cred because you have gone through the process of writing a book, but it's not typically for at least many people who write a book, their primary revenue stream. The revenue stream is something that builds on the book. And for you, it's product it's your services. So talk to us a little bit about, like, like, your workshops. What are some of the most common workshop that you deliver for companies?

Okay. The most common workshop this last year, We're related to how to create allies in companies, how to bring, you know, more allies. What can I do to be an ally of the LGBT plus community or other diversities in the company? Because I said before, like, people who are, like, in these ERGs are, like, They don't have time, so they need allies on board. They need allies also going to brides, going to To give a voice and to keep, like, teaching others. So the focus on allies was very strong this last year. Also, thing that's very interesting It's the inclusive language. You know? Maybe in in English, it's, like, quite easier to work this thing Because we don't have, like, a gender language as we have in Spanish or Portuguese. So as long as you use the pronouns in the correct in the correct in correct way, and you don't say, hey, guys, and you say, hey, everyone.

That's okay. You are being inclusive. But, okay, the challenge comes in Spanish. So I have a, like, a full workshop on, inclusive language in Spanish. It's very funny. Also, It's not only the use of words and the use of, like, changing the language to be more inclusive, but also the images That you see and you portrayed as a company. I'm gonna give you, like, a small example of a company in Argentina, like, 10 years ago or more. That for the, children's day, they they have this, like, advertise that say with sea of champion.

You know, it was full blue on a kid, like, driving a car, a race car. And then the other ad for the girls, it was With a sea of a cook of cook, and the and the girl was in the kitchen. So that's also, Like, trying to break we need to break those stereotypes. There's nothing bad if you wanna be like a mom and work in your home, and that's okay. But it's the possibility. You know? It's a possibility.

Assumption. If that's the only thing that we're putting out to women, there's a problem there.

So that's also like inclusive language. You know? It's how we use our platform to show, to portray These stereotypes of gender, how we break the things. And that's very powerful, and it's still like It's complicated because we have all these fixed ideas on gender, on identity, on roles that people need to have in society. So for me, that's amazing. I really enjoy doing that workshop. And the last 1, I have some others, but the last 1 is like leadership. You know, working with leaders to be more inclusive, and this has many things. You know? This has to I created the what I call the inclusive of come out.

So it's like 5 steps that every leader in their company has to have, like, to check The to check what people are talking about. No? 1st, start listening what's going around you, then check their issues that affect Your LGBT plus community or other minorities in your company. Is are everyone is everyone, like, having the same benefits, The same politics they apply to everyone, disregarding of their gender or no. So giving all these safe spaces to make Denounces inside the company, and the last 1 is to, like, keep the word not to to empower new leaders in the in the company. So that I also love that workshop. It's like 2 days workshop. With that, You see how people go change in their mind, how, like, start working on the empathy, putting on the the place of others. Now what happen if this Person was your kid.

You know? So what what do you do there? So, yeah, I I love those ones.

Great topics. So allies, inclusive language and inclusive leadership, just just wonderful topics. So I'm gonna ask you, Diego, to play that same game or do that same exercise so that got you here. So when you didn't know where to start, you kind of went 10 years ahead, and then reversed engineers. You don't have to go 10 years, but let's look 5 years. 5 years from now, how do you think this work grows? What do you want it to look like 5 years from today?

I I was not ready for that question.

I had to ask at least 1 surprise. Come on. I gotta keep you on your toes.

No. I think that, for example, now I'm starting with the With the idea of, having kids. No? So I'm starting that process. So, like, in 5 years, I see myself as a parent Working on this, you know, on on yes. Doing some speech related to diversity and inclusion. I love the stage. So give me a stage and a light, and I can talk for hours there. So that's why I really enjoy, you know, to to put my message through.

I think that I'm gonna be, like, very related to Latin America because I think that it's the place where we need to, like, Keep working a lot. We need to, like, fight a lot for human rights. We need to have, like, egalitarian marriage in most countries in Latin America. So I think I'm gonna keep the activism in this region even though I think I'm gonna be living in Europe. Now you are Thinking of in 5 years. But, you know, I'm very attached to this to the to this region. I would love to see, like, egalitarian marriage in Panama. I live 10 years in Panama, so I'm working very closely to foundations who are working on egalitarian marriage there, so I would love to see that.

I would love to raise my kid in Panama too, but that yes. That's I think it's more like 10 years, not 5.

Beautiful.

But yes.

Thanks so much. Diego, I could hang out with you all day, and I know you're busy. Our listeners are really busy. So as we start to wind down, if there was things that you were hoping we were gonna get to. We'll we'll put the link in the show notes to the book. Listeners, go check out the book. It's really great, so we'll certainly help people find the book. But if there was something you were hoping we were gonna talk about and we haven't talked about it yet, or there's something you wanna leave our listeners with as we start to say goodbye.

What would that mean? The only thing I would add is, for example, as you talk about the The book as a service or as a product or something is that and you can have all these, like, workshops and everything. I also creating a lot of, like, new material That it's on my socials that for people to to learn more. No? And that's completely for free, and and everything is like, I have this, what's the

best social? Like, where where do you spend the most time?

I have most time, like, in LinkedIn and, Instagram, Diego Tomasino altogether. So because that's part of the process, not to give to give to the people knowledge. And this Very related to what I said before was to keep educating people and making us more visible. So I'm always creating content with my with some friends who helped me a lot in this. I have also, like, a calendar of diversity and that, yes, people can, like, download in my web in my website. It's called also the automacino.com, and you can download download this calendar with all most, important dates on diversity, not only LGBT plus, but everything you can find on diversity and inclusion. And I think that The last thing to say is that we need to lose the fear of talking about these things. And, also, Now companies shouldn't focus on diversity and inclusion if they if they see a business case.

You have to we need to start thinking of the people who are behind the business case, and we need to do a lot of, like, work in the community. So I think that companies also have this, like, responsibility, like an ethical responsibility to help people Have their their rights even though that country doesn't give it give them to you. Now for example, in Panama, we don't have the egalitarian marriage. A company can give you the marriage leave if you get married in Argentina, for example, in Mexico. And that's something that for the company has no cost, And to the other to the person, it changed their life. So those small things are that companies can, like, create the social change that we need. So that's why I think that the the private sector is so important when it comes to diversity and inclusion. Yes.

Like, think of the people who wanna work with. Let's keep changing the world. No?

Diego, thank you so much for sharing your great work with me and our listeners. I'm so great, Paul.

Thank Thank you, Paul. Thank you for the invitation. It was amazing.

So listeners, let's do what we do. Go check out the book. There's a link in the show notes. Go connect with Diego either on LinkedIn or Instagram if you're on 1 or the other, and let's spread this important message. Really appreciate your help getting it out there. Before we go, I just wanna, say we love listeners suggested topics and guests. So if you have an idea for an episode, we'd love to hear about it. You can go to the Awarepreneur's website, and on our contact page, we have 3 simple criteria to give you a sense of who we're looking for.

And if you say, yeah, this fits, Please send your ideas on in, and I wanna say thank you so much for listening. Please take really good care. These are very intense times, and thank you for all the positive impact that you're working for in our world.