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Listening, not fixing
The Inclusion Bites Podcast
Listening, not fixing
JL
Speaker
Joanne Lockwood
GW
Speaker
Greg Wasserman
00:00 Improving society by listening and validating experiences. 05:46 Finding fulfilment, gratitude, and understanding through struggle.
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Highlights
“I got there because we have a fix it culture.”
“If we can start training people to go, I want you to listen, and the other side to go, what do you need me to do with this information? I feel we will start improving as a society. Then people will actually feel that they're being listened to, they're heard their validation. There's more validity there.”
“And so if we can stop and actually start listening and understanding from a human standpoint, that people just want to feel validated, they want to feel understood.”
“So if you're not in an environment where mistakes are learning exercises, mistakes are valid, the mistakes are okay if you believe you can never make a mistake.”
“Every no is closer to a yes. Keep going, you're doing great, you can do this.”
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Full transcript
So plug in your headphones, grab a decaf and let's get going. Today is episode 92 with the title Listening, not fixing, and I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Greg Wasserman. Greg describes himself as the head of community, partnerships and growth for an AI startup called Castmagic. When I asked Greg to describe his superpower, he said he is a gladwelling superconnector, someone who spreads ideas. Hello, Greg. Welcome to the show.
Pleasure to be here. Great to join in with your audience.
Thanks, Greg. We've chatted a bit on slack via the cast magic community, so I kind of feel like I've known you before we connected today. So absolute pleasure to finally meet you logically, physically, virtually, in person, whatever. So, Greg, reading through the show notes, you pulled together ahead of this, and I put out the title listening, not fixing. So what does that mean to you? Why is that important to you?
I mean, there's so many ways to think about this, and I think we have a fix it culture and if we now take a step back, how did I actually get to this point of a fix it culture? I guess if we get raw, and this is what I love about the show is a year ago I entered a programme for rehab. Truly was not wanting to be here. This is the first time I'm joyfully sharing this message with your community because I say joyfully because it is a message that I think others need to hear. Because I was in a dark place and I got there because we have a fix it culture. I grew up in an amazing hoUsehold. Love my family, unbelievable parents, showed nothing but love. And the problem we have is the lens that we look through is not necessarily the lens that other people are intending us to look through. And no one actually understands that.
So if you're like, everything was done with love, doesn't mean that it can't hurt. And so if we have a fix it culture, the fix it culture is we ourselves are in discomfort when someone shares a problem we want to fix that, we want to solve that. So instead of understanding that a person is just sharing that, they are in a position to feel comfortable with you, and they're like, I'm just sharing this now. We also don't, as a society, say, hey, I want to share something with you. I don't need you to respond. I just want you to listen. Maybe as a society, we need to start doing that as well. So there's a duality to this.
If we can start training people to go, I want you to listen, and the other side to go, what do you need me to do with this information? I feel we will start improving as a society. Then people will actually feel that they're being listened to, they're heard their validation. There's more validity there. So if we take my story, like, I grew up, and a lot of what I went through was this feeling of not being good enough that anytime I said something, it was met with, well, have you thought with this? Whether it was a parent, a teacher, a friend, it was always, how do I give you a solution? Or the other side of that is, it's a me too. Like, oh, I've been through this. And so now the other side doesn't feel validated. They're like, well, now, all of a sudden, the story I'm telling you is one that you are trying to create connection with. But instead of actually creating connection, I'm now catering towards you because you are feeling like you have this connection with me.
And so if we can stop and actually start listening and understanding from a human standpoint, that people just want to feel validated, they want to feel understood, that we don't need to be quick to give them a, here's how to do it, or here's how I would do it. Here's what I think you would be doing. And so through all of that, the lens I put my life through was I was never good enough and that I couldn't do anything right. And then you've also have, like, a perfectionist mindset. So if we are always thinking about, well, have you thought about this? Then it's like, oh, what I must be doing was wrong. So how do I do something better? Or you have a better idea, or my idea is not there. So from society standpoint, we start creating this culture, fix it. Perfection of not good enough.
And that is a core of ultimately, after years of not knowing why I was so unhappy and why I was not living a fulfilled life for myself. Yeah, a year ago, I didn't want to be here and someone was able to help me and cheque me into a programme and I'm now so grateful and have so much love, but also an understanding. And every time I tell my story to people, I'm like, I want you to start and pause and learn that. Ask the question, are you sharing this with me because you want me to respond, are you sharing this to me because you want a solution? Why are you sharing this? And if we actually take that moment back and do that, the other party is going to go like, wow, I feel seen, I feel understood. This is going to help me. And if you look at that from the workspace standpoint and who your audience is, it's like that changes the game completely. You now have an audience inside your company that feels even more validated. So I'll kind of pause there because that's a lot.
But, yeah, that's kind of why listening, not fixing, is a key piece for me.
Thank you for trusting me to tell me that story. That's really powerful. And if you don't mind, can I ask you, can you trace back the root of this? Was it to your childhood, your parents, your educational system, your peers? What led you to believe you were never good?
I mean, I guess I would go with my parents in this one. So I'm a big Brene Brown fan and I always remember this story from one of her books is when she was sick, her parents were loving and amazing parents and they took care of her, right? And they did all the things you would expect a good, nurturing family to do, to take care of their child when they got sick. They didn't do that for themselves. So the lens that Brene saw was sickness is a weakness. And that's why I go back to the story of, like, when your parents are doing something out of love, or someone's doing something out of love, their thoughts are, I'm doing an amazing thing. I'm trying to help you. I'm doing such a great job. But the lens that another person puts on things may not be that perception is changing their reality.
And we have to remember, perception is each individual's reality. So for me, it was. I mean, my father tomorrow would have been his 75th birthday, passed away a couple of months ago. He grew up in a broken home, didn't have a father himself, and he did an amazing job in raising us. But if we look at generational, he was your standard male who knew three emotions. I got happy, angry, sad. So I didn't grow up understanding that. I didn't know until this year, what dysregulation was holding space, feeling regulated.
Like words that are now becoming common. Most of us don't know that. Why am I anxious? Why am I feeling what I'm feeling? I couldn't tell you that I'm dysregulated now. I can tell you that. So back then, it was understanding that my parents were just doing their best to protect me, being the protective parents that they were, or they were in such discomfort. I have a problem. Great. How do I solve this? Because they're problem solvers.
Like, we are in a fixed society and we want to solve things. It was never of. So, yeah, the answer to your question was probably going back to that of, I didn't feel good enough because anything I did was. It was too scary. So there was the worry. Have you thought about this idea? There was no validation of like, you're good, I trust you. It's more of how do I protect you from the world? Or how do I ensure you don't have pain? When reality pain is a good thing. Like, you need the bitter and the sweet.
You need some of those things. So if we're not allowing people to feel discomfort, to learn from mistakes, we're actually doing a disservice to them. So, yeah, that's, I think, the answer to your question.
Yeah. A buz phrase we hear at the moment is psychological safety. And one of the elements there is learner safety. So being able to learn in a safe space, and a key part of that is being able to make mistakes. So if you're not in an environment where mistakes are learning exercises, mistakes are valid, the mistakes are okay if you believe you can never make a mistake. I guess that is the root of perfectionism, to a point where perfectionism is a problem, not just high achievement, it holds you back. It stops you being good enough. You have to be better than good enough, and everything has to be perfect, which we know is unachievable and unattainable, and also you're chasing something that is unhealthy, sometimes 100%.
And that's what I ultimately was trying to do. I had a perfectionist, fixed mindset that if you have that as a double dose, it doesn't lead to happiness. And then back to your intro. I'm ahead of growth. I'm in a revenue role. My career has been revenue. I love talking to people. So back to my superpower is life is about time and relationships.
I love opening up a conversation with someone. I don't know where it's going to go. But let's open that up now. That goes into a sales mindset of going like, look, eventually I could sell to you, but also I can help you. If I don't have a solution, maybe I can help you and connect you to someone else. And so if you look at it from the sales mindset, salespeople are rejected a lot. You have to build thick skin. So if you have a perfectionist mindset, a fixed mindset, you're already torn down and you're going into a profession where you're getting torn down even more.
Yeah, it was a recipe for disaster until I was able to get help and realise it.
Yeah, I feel that pain. And my wife works with me, she does my business development. She call it sales, call it engagement, outreach, Linkedin emails, and often I'm having to reinforce and amplify and boost her when she has a bad day. She's had too many no's, too many rejections, or someone won't pay the asking price or something like this, and she gets all kind of, like, flustered and angry and lock herself for the toilet for ten minutes and shout at the wall. And I just step in and give her a hug and say, it's okay. Every no is closer to a yes. Keep going, you're doing great, you can do this. So I get it that you want validation, you want gratification, you want those brain chemicals to hit you and go, yeah, I'm winning.
And when they don't come, you go to that downward spiral, don't you?
Yeah. And I think it's also an understanding. So if we look at it from a sales culture and a fix it culture, and just a culture of not understanding people's values and what's important to them. So if we can do a better job of understanding those things, especially in the sales culture, but I think it is a corporate world as a whole. Most people move up in their career because they were good at what they did. But as you know, as a leadership coach, just because you were good at that job doesn't mean you're good at managing people, doesn't mean you are good at coaching people. Those are very different skill sets. So if you look at the sales community, I crushed my numbers, so, great, you're going to move up into a sales manager role, because if you did well, maybe you can teach all these other people how to do it.
That doesn't work that way. And you're not giving that person actually the understanding of going like, hold on. Is what I'm doing a good thing? You're probably perpetuating a perfectionist mindset, or work hard, just overcome it. Just make more dials and go do these things. We have to take a step back and actually be able to have those vulnerable conversations, which most of us aren't doing.
Yeah, I think it's got a name, isn't it? It's called the Peter Principle. So you're promoted to the point of incompetence and then you get stuck there. So what happens is you're really good at what you do. You stand head and shoulders above the people around you, so therefore you're candidate for promotion. So you get promoted to the next level. If you stand out at that level, you get promoted to the next level. You get promoted until at one point, you no longer stand out. And you're now incompetent at doing that role without the investment, because everyone thinks you're a high achiever.
Everyone thinks you can do all this. And you're so right in what you say there is that we need to invest in our leadership. And leaders aren't just great technicians. There are skills and competencies that leaders should have and can be trained. Leaders aren't born, they're not created like that. Leadership is a learned skill. Yes, you can have some natural talent, natural flair for it, but you can learn this. You can learn emotional intelligence.
You can learn to listen. As you said, learn to listen without having to respond. Sometimes it's so difficult, though, isn't it? Someone tells your story. You were telling me your intro, and I so wanted to respond to you. I so wanted to dive in there with empathy. I so wanted to go. And me as well. And, oh, yes, I've had that experience to try and validate what you're saying.
But as you say, the power there is not to listen to respond, listen to acknowledge, listen to ask you how you feel about that, how you can drill down in that. Not for me to go, well, that's happened to me as well. It's a me too thing, isn't it?
Yeah. I hate that we have the Me too movement, but I'm like, this is a different me too movement that I think is actually, if not more, or an equal playing field of, like, hold on. We are damaging us as a people by me doing this, by trying to build connection when you're not really building connection, you're just. I don't know.
It's hard, though, isn't it? You've taught me something really deep. And my natural reaction, and most people's natural reaction is to either use sympathy or empathy as a kind of a feedback mechanism to show I've listened and to acknowledge you and validate you in some way by saying, I get that because I've done this. And what you're saying is when you're in a certain status where you were, you don't need someone to fix you, you just need someone to go, wow, that's so powerful, Greg. Tell me more, or let's dive into something like that. What more do you want to share? How else can I listen to you and hear you without trying to come up with any answers? Because we want to fix each other, don't we? That's the trouble. We do want to fix each other.
I think the biggest phrase I learned during my programme was thank you for sharing those little words. Literally, just then allows the person to go like, you heard me, you understood I was sharing something that is either difficult or I'm going through a pain or I'm in pain. It could be a simple frustration with work. Going back to your scenario, it's like I'm beating down, I'm getting all these no's and your response is you've got this. It's like, okay, the next call is just going to get you to a yes type deal. It's like the motivation they need, but it's understanding then is that what they need? Is the person actually coming to you and saying, I'm sharing this with you so that you can boost me up? Or am I sharing this with you so that I just can share this? And I trust you and I love you and I just want to share this with someone because I'm beating down and I know this is a feeling that will go and it will pass, but this is where I'm at right now and I'm kind of asking you to sit here with me as opposed to boosting me up, but until we actually go, thank you for sharing that. Are you looking for me to respond? Are you looking for me to do what? We don't do that. And once we start doing that, my God, what power of that is going to be amazing.
Yeah.
Have you heard of an expression called Rubber ducking?
No.
I can't remember which company it was, but one company, they had this kind of guiding principle that you could not ask for help from your manager, from your colleagues unless you discussed your problem with a rubber duck on a shelf. So you'd have people, or in the office, they'd stand in front of this shelf with a rubber duck on it and they'd explain their problem. And they'd have a conversation with a rubber duck. And obviously, nine times out of ten, just saying it out loud, just bringing it out of your head into the open, is enough for you to go, right, I've got it now. I've got the ideas. As you said, I've let the frustration out. I've expressed it somehow. And as you say, sometimes it's just the need to say something with somebody else in the room so that you're heard, you're listened to, and that frustration hasn't gone nowhere.
So I completely get that, and I do it as well. I have a bad day, and I want to scream, but if no one hears me, it's not a scream, is it? If a tree falls in the woods, does it actually make a noise?
Yeah.
I want someone to acknowledge and go, okay, I heard you. Great. And then we can feel acknowledged. I think that's the acknowledgment of my frustration, my pain, my challenge. Whatever it is, you can't fix it. There's nothing you could say. It's just.
And that goes to if we allow people to sit in discomfort. I'm learning this. Sitting in discomfort means there's change. And so if you can just accept discomfort, then that's a great thing to move and change.
Do you have a lot of people say to you where you're so brave or you're a real inspiration and sort of giving you hero status?
In the last year, friends and family continue to just use the proud of me. Proud to have chosen a different path than I was originally thinking of taking, and proud of where I am a year later, since I was there, I don't know if it's hero status. It's more of, like, just being able to engage with them on these deeper levels that I couldn't. That was the biggest thing. Even my mom, no one knew where I was. No one knew the depth of my depression, because you hide it really well. That's what we do. As society goes back to your water cooler conversations of, like, how are you doing? I'm fine.
How are you doing? I'm fine. And you walk away, and it's like, no one actually has the conversation of going like, no, I'm having a shit day. It's like, now I got to sit here and listen to you tell me about your shit day. Fine. No, we'd rather. And that's the irony of this, right? I want to fix it, but when you tell me I got something else to do, I'm like, well, I don't want to listen to this. So we have this weird societal issue, and I think when we can start having those vulnerable conversations, we'll do it. And so I think that's where my friends are coming from, of understanding.
Like, you're actually trying to do things. You're trying to make a change, not only yourself, but help others. And that's why I'm so honoured to come on here and talk to you about this topic, because I feel we're missing this.
Yeah, I hear what you're saying there. When we're with our friends, our family, whatever it is, and the conversation about, how are you doing? The expected answer is, yeah, I'm okay. Having a tough week. Things will be okay. Don't worry about it. And then you say, how about you? And they go, yeah, metre.
Yeah.
Similar sort of thing. Yeah, life goes on. Yeah, we're getting there. And that's the kind of superficial level we're kind of comfortable with. And as you say, once it goes down a notch into, actually, no, I'm not okay. I've got some real things going on. Can you listen to me for five minutes? It's like, okay, we're getting deep here. Are we? This is a bit of bro love.
Is it? What are we doing here? How can we take this to another level? It's like, uncomfortable. What do I say? And it takes a very special friend, colleague, family member who give you that time and move into that space for you to truly listen 100%.
Like I said, it wasn't until a year or so ago I learned the phrase like hold space. We don't know how to hold space. No one's taught holding space for someone because we continue to have that bro love superficial. Like, you're good, I'm good. Cool. Let's go drink a beer. And everything's good, right? I don't know. Which is also probably why most of my friends are females, because I'm like, oh, I can have these deep conversations as opposed to men.
We're not really talked about. We're not told these things. One of my favourite books that's helped in my journey was Lewis Howe's mask masculinity. And it's like the nine masks that we as men wear. Most of us don't even know it. So I try and tell every friend, especially if you're in the education space, if you're a teacher, go read this book, because you'll start understanding what's going on at a psychological level with those kids in your classroom, because that's where it's all starting. And then if we can go into the adult level and if adults start reading that and the HR world start reading that and sales managers and leadership start, then we can start identifying certain things. So once you start seeing patterns, you can't unsee them.
But we're not trained on it.
What it's like in corporate America, but certainly in the UK, we're doing a lot more around mental health, first aid, training people to have those listening conversations, to cheque in on people to understand. I mean, I've lost probably three or four people, all men actually, over my life, who have taken their lives for various reasons and nobody can understand why. There was no sign. They were just getting on with life. And then one day they weren't and there was a friend who lived in Australia and his wife came home and found him. He'd hanged himself on the pergola in the back garden and nobody had any clue. He just went home from work early and took that route and it's that unknown. And I guess had all of these people had the opportunity for someone to just hear them, to listen to them or cheque in on them just at that one moment, then potentially that conversation could have had a different outcome rather than just everyone's okay, everyonE's fine.
First, thank you for sharing that. That's not light, so thank you for sharing that piece. What comes to mind when I hear that, having been there, the cheque ins are nice, but cheque ins I don't think help so much. So if a person doesn't know where they are, if they're already in a place mentally, then it comes down to shame and fear. Like, if I've never been trained on talking about these things, how do I come to you and you're going like, are you okay? And you're like, yeah, I'm fine. That's what we are. We are a fine society. And I always forget what the acronym of fine is, but it's not a good one.
So if I always told people, it's like, look, Robin Williams, Anthony Bardain, they seem like they had such great, like, they're not with us anymore for whatever reason. So we can go down that path. But people could cheque in, I don't think it's a cheque in, I think it's actually understanding and diving in. Like, I did not know where I was. If you checked in, I was great at hiding it. I didn't know how to share. No one actually taught me those skills. No one held space.
So I think it goes from how do we do that better in order to stop anyone getting to that sad ending?
You talked about the multiple masks, multiple hats that men wear. Was it? You said nine. Was it hats, different masks? Having tried it in my past, being a man, I tried it for a while. It didn't work out for me. But there's a lot of pressure being a man, to live up to societal expectations, family responsibilities, as you say, that perfectionism, to be the person that everybody looks up to for strength, not showing weakness or deep emotion, and to keep that invincible, stoic front going, which is why we see suicidal amongst men being the biggest killer of a certain age range. I think it's, what, 20 to 50 or something? It's one of the biggest killers of men, certainly in the UK. I guess it plays the same in the US as well. And it is a tough gig being a man.
I know we say that women have tough gigs having to put up with men sometimes, but men Have a tough gig just existing as a man for the pressure they have without sometimes the support structure, or as you say, the conversations you have with your female friends allow you to go deeper and to have those more empathic, more emotional type conversations that you could never have with male friends. And men tend to socialise with other men, and it often stays at that superficial level without the opportunity to go deep, doesn't it?
Yeah. Look, I think being a human is difficult, regardless of any factors, and each one's got their own. Like, we can all joke going like, oh, I couldn't be a woman. Oh, I couldn't be a man. Right? Couldn't be a dog, it's like, oh, a dog's probably the greatest life. I don't know. But, yeah, I mean, as a male, a 40, almost 41 year old male who grew up in a generation where your parents in the early 60s were taught certain things, I think we're changing and the next generations will become better and you're seeing that. But the current generation, where I'm at, I'm still living from those past and it's tough, but that's why I'm like, all right, we got to start listening better.
We've got to start asking questions and responding. Otherwise, not only is it suicide, but it's also why men die of heart attacks. I didn't cry. I could tell you I cried four times, probably in 20 years, and those four times were over sporting related events, whether I was playing or watching. So that just goes to show you where my head was and then crying over them, especially when I was playing you're like, I can't believe I'm crying, and I'm showing all this emotion in my field. Like, this is terrible. No, you've got to allow that. And so I've now learned, like, crying is such a great release.
It is a beautiful thing. We're not taught those things. Those aren't allowed culturally across all different facets.
That's so true and so insightful. One of the things that I've learned over the last seven years, since I gender transitioned, is to not hold my emotions in. Maybe it's the oestrogen that I have Flowing through my body now. Maybe it's those hormones, the chemicals, the female brain kicking in with those hormones, but I find crying extremely cathartic. It's extremely powerful release of all those emotions. I'm happy to burst into tears in front of the television. If I'm having a deep conversation with someone professionally, we'll all end up having a cry and a hug. I find it's just such a release now that I don't have to hold that in.
It's almost like I've got permission to be female, to be emotional, and therefore I'm going to bathe in it and use it to my advantage or to my self care. And I think you're right there, allowing yourself to share and show those emotions without any bound, without anybody judging you. And as a woman, I don't get judged for crying. It's almost like, oh, she's crying again. It's expected. Or my wife will say, oh, there's hormones. Here we go. I go.
It's great. I'm loving it. It's fantastic. So, yeah, I think that's a really insightful thing, what you said.
There is.
You can cry four times in memory, and those were over winning or losing a sporting competition or your team losing or something, or winning. So, yeah, we got to give permission, not just to men, to people, to let this out. It's a natural human release, isn't it? Maybe we're training people to hold it in rather than express it.
You've got to stay strong, or I can't show weakness, or there's a problem with that. If you're always staying strong, then where is the joy and the beauty of actually, quote unquote, being human and weak and allowing that? I empathise for parents who are like, I've got to show strength. Even though my life is in a tail spin at the moment, as whatever's going on at work and I got my kids, there's a lot more that you're taking on as I watch my brother and my sister in law with my niece. But sometimes there's strength and there's beauty in going, like, it's okay to not be okay. And if you teach kids that, if we teach each other that, wow, once again, how amazing that would be. Because then we'rE all not trying to be stoic, we're all not trying to be strong. We're allowing ourselves to be human, to be vulnerable.
If you think about maybe back to high school, college, don't the big, brave, strong men have the best life? And then the kids that are maybe emotionally weaker and expressing themselves have kind of like the not so great life. They don't get the girls, they don't get the hero story. We're setting ourselves up for men having to be brave and strong to get the girl, to get the hero, to be the success that's still propagated in movies and Disney and other cultures, isn't it?
Yeah. I mean, if we go back to Disney and the movies we all grew up, I mean, they perpetuated a lot of that, hopefully. I think things now, if you look at, you've got more female character led movies. So we're changing that. The thought of the prince rescuing the princess is what we grew up on. Right. So that narrative is changing, which is amazing. And I think as we continue to evolve, and that's why I'm here, to try and let people know.
People just want to be heard. They just want to be understood. They want vulnerability. We just don't know how it to do it because we weren't taught. So how do we start teaching this? How do we start changing that perspective? It will stop a lot.
It will. It's almost like we got to help educate parents, maybe even pre parents, when you're planning a family, as to how to bring your children up, to nurture them in a more, less stereotyped, less gendered way, to use more empathy, to use more compassion. And it's not about winner takes all. It's not about having to be the best. I think if we can educate our next generation of parents with these tools and skills, otherwise all they're going to do is, like yourself, propagate the behaviour and the parenting model that you were given by your parents.
I would go with not just educating them as parents, because I don't know if I'll have kids. So it's more of a matter of just educating us as humans and that's going to make us better regardless. As if I'm a breeder, or if I'm not right, if I'm adopting, if I'm not right, if I have kids, whatever the case may be, it's going to make us as better, it's going to make you a better partner, it's going to make you a better coworker, it's going to make you a better human being, able to have honest conversations with your boss and going, look, my father passed away two months ago, and I had to tell, as you know, I'm at a startup and I'm like, I got three co founders. I'm like, I don't want to let them down because there's so much to be doing. But I was not in a mental place to do much of anything. And they're incredibly supportive, and that goes to bereavement. We, as a society, usually have three to five days for bereavement. So we're allowing, as a society, going like, hold on, you just lost someone.
There's grief. We have a problem with grief. I learned that one as well. So if we have a problem with. We have a lot of discomfort because we don't talk about these things. So if we can start forgetting parents and just doing it for ourselves and having these conversations and understanding, this is natural, and there's ways to go about this and that. We can remove that shame of A, not knowing, or B, feeling this way, we can become a better human race.
Yeah, I'm going to give you a high five to that one. That's definitely a good mantra and a good way to evolve our society. I look back seven, eight years ago, when I gender transitioned. I was at that point where everything was dark, everything was dismal, everything was kind of a stress point. There's lots of holding secrets in trying to prop everything up, and then this feeling of being the pain giver and trying to be the pain fixer at the same time. All that pressure of playing all those roles. And I think I learned, I came up with an affirmation, which is just two words, I am. And that, for me, solved a lot of my baggage and my demons, because I was trying to wrestle with, as you say, not being good enough, trying to fix things, trying to work out, rationalise my ideNtity, rationalise all the things in my head.
And then I realised I didn't need to rationalise them. They didn't need fixing, they didn't need understanding, they just needed accepting that I am who I am. And I think once I found that affirmation, everything clicked into place. I didn't need the answer. There was no answer. There was no problem in reality. There was just an acceptance of self. And once I was able to accept self, it allowed.
Enabled other people to accept me based on that affirmation, if you like. So I think, as you say, we hold it in, we build this pressure cooker and it's finding that release so that it doesn't explode through stress, through depression, through hopelessness, whatever it may be, and just stepping back, going, I need out for a minute. I need out. Let me just take some time. Let me be me for a bit. Let me talk to you. Listen to me. Rather than feeling this need to say, hold it in and be the one that is invincible.
Can I ask you a question on that?
Go for it.
I'm finding at 41, almost, that I am able to go, like, I don't care about anyone else, right? Like, I have reached that point of, like, I am who I am. I'm accepting that. So you reach that point at whatever age. But before that, right, the question is, could you have accepted I am who I am earlier? And how do we get people to accept who they are earlier? It's a hard thing, right? Because you had all this pressure, you had all this fear, you had all these things going on. So how do we get that I am moment accepted earlier?
Yeah. Could I have found it earlier? I don't know. I don't know, actually, because a lot of it's caught up with shame, fear of failure, rejection, all these kind of things, these human instincts, fear of failure, fear of rejection. Shame is a powerful emotion. Brene Brown talks about it a lot, about shame and guilt. There's useless emotions that we can't do anything with, but you're caught up in it. The fear of the unknown, the fear of taking that step forward, that irrevocable step that once you've said it, you can't unsay it. And then the fear of being judged for doing it.
And I don't think I could have, looking back on my life, found an earlier time zone. I needed to revolve into it. I needed to take those small steps, nudge up to the edge of the cliff, look down it a few times, look down it a few times, and then realise it was only a centimetre drop. It wasn't thousand feet, it was a centimetre an inch, half an inch. I think I had to discover that myself. And I had people in my sort of social network who were going through similar kind of demons in their head around being trans at the time. So it helped to have other people to bounce this stuff off, to realise that I wasn't crazy on my own, so I didn't do it alone. I didn't actually have active help, but I knew there were other people.
It wasn't just me, which gave me the belief that it was solvable. If you seen. I've seen people come out the other side intact, so I knew it was possible. And I think it was just a case of after I gender transitioned, after I sold my previous IT company business. Sat on the end of my bed in tears, not being able to sleep each night, going round around circles, trying to fix this problem. Laying awake. Laying awake, really kind of tearful, angry, depressed, retreating into myself. And I said, the art became to me one day that I am.
And I woke up and the sun came out, the curtains opened, and I suddenly found my purpose in life. And I often talk about the Japanese saying, Ikigai. It's where those four elements intersect. What you love, what you're good at, what you get paid for, and what the world needs. And I realised that I hadn't actually locked into place what I love. I was good at stuff, I was getting paid for stuff, and the world needed it, but I didn't have my heart and passion in it. I think a combination between I am and realising what fulfilled me allowed me to bring that together. And I think once you've made a huge.
The conversations you share today, once you've made those big fundamental life announcements or sharing what you shared, it becomes very easy, or a lot easier to share other things in your life because you're no longer held back by fear. You're almost empowered to talk about things and to share things. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but do you feel stronger and more empowered to share things now than you've ever done?
Oh, my God, completely. If there's fear in me, I go, okay, let's go talk about this. Because as soon as I keep letting that fear stay inside, whether it's through a rubber duck or whatever, it's like, all right, how do I share this? Whether it's therapist or someone else going like, all right, am I crazy? Is this a normal emotion? That's where you're looking, the validation? So it's like, all right, before, I was keeping everything in my head. And so when you're keeping everything in your head, yeah, you're going to go down a ruminating rabbit hole. That's probably not good for you, but when you start talking about it, I'm like, I love your concept. I am Popeye, right? Why was Popeye so famous? Because he is who he is, and that's his thing. And so once we start understanding that, the problem is once again, as, like, we say these buzwords, like, oh, everyone, you should be Popeye. Like, what's great about Popeye? He is who he is, and that's great, but we don't accept that.
We don't really accept that. We want you to have that, but, like, do we really accept that? Those in your network that do. Back to your story. And you had a community. Like, you weren't alone. I felt alone. I felt if I shared any of these things, that it would not actually go. So it was the fear of if I share what I couldn't control, and that becomes a perfectionist mindset.
You're, like, perfect, right? You want to control things, but I love that I'm going to have to look into the Japanese. One phrase I love from the Japanese. What is it? I always screw it up. Kinsuji, where it's putting broken pieces together, but with gold, so it allows the beauty of you. You're not broken, right. You can be put back together, but allowing those broken pieces instead of just glueing it so it's back to the original piece, it's like, no, show that with the gold and your cracks are beautiful. You are beautiful. Who you are and all elements of you.
Once we accept that, back to you. I am. When we accept who we are, that becomes a beautiful thing.
That's truly beautiful, because I want you to see all of me. I want you to see the broken bits, the healed bits, the scars, because that's part of my essence, is how the adversity I've overcome, the challenges I've picked myself up from. That's so beautiful, those golden threads, those golden joins. Because I often use the analogy of taking a piece of paper, screwing it up, and then trying to flatten it out. It will never be the same perfect bit of paper, but I've never thought of it in the way you framed it as, see those scars, see those healing, and see what I've been through. Don't see that crumpled bit of paper as broken. See it as whole with life and lived experience. I love that I'm going to look up that and.
And bring that into my mindset as well. Thank you. That's really powerful.
Yeah. When I heard that one, I cried, of course, because I'm like, wow, that is a powerful way to look at you, going like, I am all these things and you can be all those things. The question is, are you willing to allow others to see those? And goes back to the start of this conversation, like, if we can actually start listening to people and giving them the space so that they feel like they can be who they are, then we'll all be walking around covered in gold, and that's kind of cool.
It also plays into the kind of, when people say, I don't see gender, I don't see ethnicity, I don't see race, I don't see this, I don't see that. I just treat everybody the same and I want to go, no, I want you to see me for who I am. And that's exactly what you're saying. I want you to see those cracks. I want you to see where I've healed and all of those things that I've come through, because that makes me me. That's the power I have. We talked about superpowers at the beginning. My superpower is I'm etched in gold, where I've healed myself and pulled myself up.
I think that's a great analogy. I'll put that in the show notes so we can share that. Fabulous. So going back to the period of, excuse the euphemism, call it your dark time, where you are not sure whether tomorrow would come or not or whether you'd make different choices. We often talk about the difference between being alone and lonely. And you can be lonely in a room full of people, and you can be alone and yet fulfilled and happy. You are probably experiencing being lonely in life, regardless of who you were surrounded by.
100%, like I said, no one knew. When I tell the story, there's no way you're a glass half full person. There's no way. It's a shock. And it's like, no, you get really good at putting up a front to allow society to see what you want society to see and not letting people truly in. Because if you did, there's the fear of what they would see, what you would feel. So you kept that all inside. So, yeah, it goes back to the early part of this conversation.
Like, you feel so lonely because you don't know how to share those things. You are afraid you're not told and taught that you can share those things. Or if you're told, like, oh, I want you to share these things with me, then there's a judgement or there's a fix. It's easier to not share these things. So I'm going to continue to not share things about myself because I am fearful of the response that's going to be given and the response that's going to be given is you shouldn't feel those things. Or how could you? It's a standard. If you think about, we were talking offline about food, it's like if they comment about their weight, they're like, oh, but you're not fat. Or whatever the case may be.
It's like you're not helping the situation because that's how they feel. You literally just told this person, don't feel the way you feel. You didn't validate how they're feeling. You are just trying to go like, well, compared to other people. Like, oh, you're so skinny, or whatever. It's like, we have that as a societal, and I'm just using weight and food because that came to mind when we're talking about it. But, yeah, we are so quick to, in that instance, not even me, too. It's just like, well, you're not.
And it's like, I'm going to boost you up because you're tearing yourself down. But they're not tearing themselves down. That is how they feel. So how do we actually allow them to feel that? And what is it that they need to hear or feel? I'm in great shape. So when I tell people I'm out of shape, they're like, but you look great. I'm like, okay, looks is one thing, how I feel, what I'm used to. I worked out last night. I'm like, oh, this is kicking my butt.
I'm so out of shape right now. And then other people are like, well, compared to me, you look great. Those are the things that play with once we stop realising how a person's feeling, what they're thinking, and we validate that instead of trying to go like, oh, you're not. Or like, me, too. Yeah, that lonely feeling was there because you're like, no one's going to validate anything I'm saying right now. Who do I talk to?
Yeah, I hear you. You talk about having a workout last night. I am not anyone's athlete. You look at me, I'm 58 years old. I'm significantly, probably twice the weight I should be for my height, certainly my age. And I have a gym session each week. I have a personal trainer. We do an hour together.
And I don't pretend that I'm fit, but I do come out of those sessions. She kicks my butt, basically. She works me and works me and works me. So I come out of that hour and I can't walk I can't breathe, I've got to sit down, I got to recover. She goes, are you okay? I said, yeah, I'm happy. Knackered. I've delivered, I've done what I wanted to do today and I don't ever expect to be fit, but I take pleasure in doing the best I can, going back to the perfectionist thing or putting my whole self into something to achieve. I don't want to walk away thinking, I left a bit.
I want to go walk away thinking, yes, you had everything today. And that was all I could give. I think that's the sign of a good workout, that personal drive to do all you can, regardless of compare with somebody. I don't need to compare myself with somebody else. I don't care if I'm doing eight pounds and somebody else is doing 16 pounds. It doesn't matter to me. I'm doing what I can do to limit my ability. So, yeah, the comparison is such a negative kind of emotion and trait.
We should judge ourselves by ourselves. And when I set this new business up, I mean, you talked about impostor syndrome or that feeling of not being good enough. I started a new career, a new gender in a new sector, and I had immense imposter syndrome. And what I realised was I was evaluating myself against the standards of others, not looking for my incremental improvement. And as soon as I stopped comparing myself with yesterday and started comparing myself with a month ago and two months ago and a year ago, I realised that there was a differential, but I was comparing myself at a micro level and not seeing much improvement. So I think that's the important thing. When people say, wow, you're doing great, you're moving on, you've come a long way. You don't go and argue with them, you go, thank you, really, thank you, and accept what they're saying as validation and not just fake platitudes and sayings.
Most people mean it. And that's what I had to do. I had to learn to say thank you and really absorb that to enable me to sort of, kind of manage my impostor syndrome. I think that's what I ended up doing.
You gave me a thought that I'm going to have to ponder on, because if I say it, it's not fleshed out. I know in my head it doesn't make sense, but it's like when you're talking about comparison, it is truly a negative thing. And so I compared. I compared myself all the time. Self deprecation was my thing and taking a compliment was not something you could do, because if you have a perfectionist mindset, how could you take a complimeNt? Right? I'm not perfect. There's more I could do. I fed off of. Tell me what was wrong so I can fix it.
Because if I knew what was wrong, that means I could go and try and become perfect, as opposed to accepting like, you were good enough or you did the best you could. It's like, no, tell me I could have done better. So how do I fix that? Especially in a corporate world, especially in the sales? Like, I want a hunter who's going to go out there and close all these business deals and so forth. It's like, when you're looking for that, you create a culture that's probably not healthy, but it's going to do great for your business. But your mental health of your employees is probably not great. So there's a balance there. But, yeah, comparison is such a negative trait, and we do it all the time, in everything we do. And social media doesn't help in that regard.
Yeah, the instaculture, the philtres, the Snapchat, the pressure on younger people today, being always on, always compared. Chasing the likes, chasing the validation.
Aren't you glad both of us didn't grow up with social media in that regard? Like, imagine where mental health would have been then.
Yeah. No phones, capturing photographs of everything we did. We got up to stuff and it disappeared. It never existed. And I'm glad I can't remember some of it because I did some crazy stuff. I'm sure you did as well. And it's gone. And we can laugh about it around the campfire, but we got no evidence.
We can't post it all over social media. But yes, it's a tough gig. And the mental health of younger people is really impactful. We see bullying because in my day. In your day, we went home, we could escape it. We shut the front door. And unless we had people being vicious and phoning us up and saying things, we largely had safe zones where we weren't being. But now your phone vibrates and it's a bully.
It's a negativity. Or even if we didn't talk to someone for a couple of days, that was the worst it got. Or we maybe pinched them occasionally or poked them or somethIng. That was our bullying of our day. But now it's intense. And it's not just the circle around you. It's the infinite amount of connections, the thousands and thousands and thousands of people who can pile on to a stranger and reinforce negativity so destructive these days.
And to that point, the fact that it is an infinite amount of people that are influencing you, which makes it even more crucial that we are creating habits and mental structures within side all of us. So that, all right, a troll is a troll. It's not going to bother me because I accept people are going to be like that. And negative feedback is just as good as positive feedback. And those are someone's opinions, and that's perception. And I am who I am and I'm going to be there, and I like that. But we're not training the people appropriately. To philtre, that, and that's a hard thing.
Yeah.
And feedback. If I don't value your opinion as a person, then I don't have to accept your feedback. I can leave that present unopened, I can return it to sender. I don't need to absorb your feedback into my life, or I can frame it in such a way that, okay, that's one person's opinion. Okay, if everybody gives me similar feedback, then maybe I should learn and adapt and listen. But if it's a one off, out of context with everything else, then it's just. I call it graffiti. Like you're driving down through a ghetto and you see all these hate words sprayed on the wall and it's just someone being angry at the world.
You don't know who I am. Your words aren't directed at me, you're just being angry at someone. A stereotype like me. That's fine. I can drive by Anglesco and I can ignore it. It's just graffiti. I don't take it personally, but it does take a very strong mindset to be able to philtre out that noise and contextualise it as just junk, because many people will bring that in, into their psyche and they'll want to argue, they want to fight, they want to debate it, they want to bring it in. And those emotions aren't productive either.
Being able to let things go and not get absorbed by the negativity again, it's a trait I've learned over the last few years, to be able to, and I wouldn't say it's about putting a suit of armour on and protecting myself all the time. It's around just being able to philtre out the noise and move forward. And I think a lot of people don't necessarily have that ability, but it's helped my mental health no end to be able to compartmentalise noise and just close it down.
You bring up an interesting point. We also struggle. We're defensive as a society. So if I give feedback, I'm going to go, like, hold on, now you're attacking me. So it's all a matter of I'm defensive. And so that's where the argument starts, as opposed to, like, hold on. What is this person trying to show me? What are they trying to tell me? Can we sit here and actually have a conversation? It's like, no, I'm going to get defensive and that is the ego getting attacked. Right.
If I think about things in that regard. So if we can just realise it's a US together as opposed to me against you, we'll also be better in that regard.
Yeah. And I often say when people are coming at me wanting an argument and I just say, I don't owe you an argument. I don't owe you a debate. If you want to have this conversation, I'm not the person that's going to sit here and want to engage in it. You can tell me about my identity, you can tell me about what your belief is and you can tell me about biology, you can tell me all these things. I go, I don't owe you a discussion. I am. I'm me.
I can't explain it. I'm not going to debate it with you. Sorry, but this conversation is not going to give you productive for either of us. You just want to tell me you're right and attack me. I don't need to get involved in that conversation. So I think being able to step out of it sometimes and not owe someone a debate, not get engaged in something where it's nonproductive and it's not bottling it, it's not avoiding the conversation. It's just saying this is not productive for either of us. You just want to be right.
Whatever I say, we're not going to change each other's opinions. So I don't need to have a conversation where you want to be right without listening to me. So I can do that in the pub, in the bar, somewhere with somebody else, I might enjoy it.
Right.
Greg, we've been chatting now for an hour and a half bit in the green room and an hour on here. Amazing. And thank you for sharing your story. When you said to me that you wanted to take part and you had something you wanted to share, that was deep, I had no real idea as to what you were going to say or how you're going to say it, and I let it unfold and, yeah, thank you for trusting me. Thank you for coming here and saying what you said. But also thank you for being, I suppose, a friend. We've known each other superficially through Slack and through a product that you're a part of. I'm quite a fangirl of cast magic and I'll be using it for the show notes for this episode.
So tell us more about cast magic, tell us more about how to get hold of you and how to find out about the mean.
Once again, thank you so much for making this a reality and having this conversation, giving me. I don't drink coffee, but a coffee chat over something that's very serious to me and why I want others. And that's what I love about what I do. So cast magic, it's platform that allows you to take any audio and video and repurpose it. So you can take this podcast, you can take your speaking engagements. What I love about what I do goes back to my thesis, life is about time, relationships. And so I get to connect with people like you through our slack community, through a product that is helping your business. And then I get to serve you and go like, how do I help you? How's this doing that? So I'm on LinkedIn.
That is where most of my content lives. Every Monday I post three podcasts I think people should listen to. I am trying to constantly tell people on how to help their podcasting journey, how to help with their brand identity and a partnership person. So partnerships as well. It's kind of where I live. And this is the transition of 2024 into the ethos of how do I continue to tell a story to help people from a mental health standpoint? While it's now the trendy thing, it's something that is great. I can jump on because I know where I was a year ago and if I can just help one person feel less lonely and help one manager understand how to have a better conversation, that's all I need.
That's so powerful. Help one person have a better outcome as a result of a conversation with you. I think that's an easy thing so often not achieved by many. But yeah, it's a good starting point. We're not trying to change the world. If I can just change one person, we can all do that. We can all influence the one, if you like, change ourselves, influence those around us. So very powerful.
Thank you. Amazing. Thank you to you, the listener, for getting this far. I mean, we've had been online now for about an hour and hour and five minutes. Thank you for getting to the end. I really appreciate you and I hope you found this conversation as insightful and powerful as I have, please do subscribe. If you're not already subscribed to keep updated on future episodes of the Inclusion Bites podcast. That's B-I-T-E-S.
Please share the love, tell your friends, tell your colleagues. I've got other exciting guests lined up over the next few weeks and months, and it won't be long till we're at episode 100. Yay. Fireworks. So I'm looking forward to that episode, that milestone. Of course, if you want to be a guest like our guest today, Greg and others I've had in the past, if you'd like to come on the show and you just want to tell a story, you want to have a conversation with me, please do drop me a line to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk. If you got any other suggestions.
Also please let me know. Finally, my name is Joanne Lockwood. It has been an absolute pleasure to host this podcast for you today. Catch you next time. Bye.
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More from this recording
🔖 Titles
The Power of Listening: Redefining Masculinity and Embracing Vulnerability in Society
Breaking the Silence: Nurturing Empathy and Acceptance for Male Emotional Expression
Encouraging Vulnerability: Overcoming Stoicism and Cultivating Emotional Connection in Men
Embracing Emotional Authenticity: Challenging Societal Expectations of Masculinity Through Active Listening
The Art of Empathetic Listening: Redefining Masculinity and Fostering Mental Well-being in Men
Shifting the Narrative: Cultivating Openness and Empathy for Male Emotions Through Active Listening
Nurturing Emotional Authenticity: Rethinking Masculinity and Building Empathetic Connections Through Listening
Dismantling Stoicism: Promoting Open Dialogue and Emotional Expression in Male Mental Health
The Power of Vulnerability: Challenging Stereotypes and Fostering Emotional Support Through Listening
Cultivating Emotional Resilience: Redefining Masculinity and Championing Vulnerability Through Active Listening
ℹ️ Introduction
Welcome to The Inclusion Bites Podcast, hosted by Joanne Lockwood. In Episode 92, titled "Listening, not fixing," we delve into a powerful conversation with guest Greg Wasserman. Together, they explore the impact of societal expectations on mental health, the struggles of male stoicism, and the importance of opening up and truly listening without the need to emphasise or centre one's own self in the story. Join us as we navigate through these vital discussions and gain valuable insights on understanding, vulnerability, and the power of genuine connection.
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 Improving society through better listening and validation of experiences.
05:46 Finding happiness, gratitude, and understanding through sharing personal experiences to help others.
13:12 Understanding values in sales and leadership is crucial for career progression.
17:17 Expressing gratitude for sharing, understanding someone's pain, and offering support.
24:23 Increasing mental health support vital to prevent tragedies.
32:06 Promote vulnerability and empathy over constant strength.
35:18 Advocating for broader education and support for all humans, not just parents, to improve relationships and work performance while addressing societal attitudes towards bereavement.
42:47 Acknowledging and expressing fear is key to overcoming it. Seeking validation and discussing emotions is crucial for mental well-being. Embracing individuality like Popeye is important.
45:04 Embracing scars and healing, seeing life's journey as beautiful.
52:20 Self-evaluation is key, not comparing to others. Focus on personal growth and accept praise graciously.
57:21 Ignore feedback unless consistent.
01:01:02 Greg shared a deep story, thanks for trusting.
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 Improving society by listening and validating experiences.
05:46 Finding fulfilment, gratitude, and understanding through struggle.
13:12 Understanding values crucial for sales and leadership.
17:17 Expressing gratitude and understanding in difficult times.
24:23 UK businesses address mental health, prevent tragedy.
32:06 Embracing vulnerability brings strength and beauty.
35:18 Education as humans makes us better, adaptable.
42:47 Sharing fears, seeking validation, and self-acceptance.
45:04 Embracing scars and adversity, a truly beautiful essence.
52:20 Self-evaluation, not comparison, leads to improvement.
57:21 Feedback: valuable if consistent, graffiti if isolated.
01:01:02 Grateful for sharing, thank you, friend.
Episode Tags
Listening, male stoicism, mental health, vulnerability, personal growth, societal expectations, emotional expression, toxic masculinity, self-acceptance, psychological safety
A Subtitle - A Single Sentence describing this episode
Exploring the power of vulnerability, Greg and Joanne delve into the impact of a fix-it culture on mental health and the importance of genuine listening and emotional openness.
Episode Summary with Intro, Key Points and a Takeaway
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, host Joanne Lockwood and guest Greg unravel the power of listening without the intention to fix. Greg shares his personal journey and how a fixed mindset impacted his experiences, highlighting the need for people to feel discomfort in order to learn from their mistakes. Joanne delves into the concept of psychological safety and the detrimental effects of perfectionism in learning and achievement.
The discussion extends to Greg's experiences in the sales profession, where the pressure of upholding a perfectionist mindset had detrimental effects. They also touch on the need for understanding and vulnerability in leadership roles, ultimately urging for a shift in societal expectations of masculinity to allow for emotional expression.
The episode explores Greg's platform, Cast Magic, and his focus on helping people in their podcasting journey. Joanne reflects on her personal experiences and the power of acknowledging one's feelings, offering insight into her coping mechanisms and self-acceptance.
The key takeaway from this insightful conversation is the importance of redefining societal expectations, fostering vulnerability, and actively listening without the need to fix. By understanding the impact of a fixed mindset, societal pressure, and male stoicism, this episode encourages listeners to embrace discomfort, share their stories, and engage in deeper, more meaningful discussions.
Tune in to this episode to gain valuable insights into the impact of societal expectations and the power of vulnerability in creating a more inclusive and understanding society.
💬 Keywords
fixed mindset, psychological safety, perfectionism, leadership development, vulnerability, gender stereotypes, self-acceptance, imposter syndrome, social media impact, mental health, feedback interpretation, societal expectations, gender transitioning, emotional expression, toxic masculinity, brand identity, deep conversations, personal growth, validating feelings, rubber ducking, holding space, inclusion, belonging, dysregulation, fear, empowerment, loneliness, body image, personal training, male stoicism
💡 Speaker bios
Greg Wasserman is a British individual who has overcome personal struggles and is now passionate about spreading a message of hope and resilience. A year ago, he entered a program for rehab, initially feeling resistant to the idea. However, his journey has led him to a place of joyfully sharing his story with others. Growing up in a loving household, Greg experienced the challenge of seeing the world through a different lens than others, leading to a personal struggle. Now, he is dedicated to breaking the "fix it" culture and sharing his message of understanding and empathy with others.
❇️ Key topics and bullets
Primary topic: Mental Health and Self-Acceptance
Impact of a "fix it culture" on personal struggles
Importance of listening and validation over constant solutions
Understanding dysregulation and unexpressed emotions
Gratitude for sharing personal struggles
Primary topic: Emotional Expression and Vulnerability
Fear of sharing personal struggles and seeking validation
Embracing broken pieces and finding empowerment
Importance of being seen for who you are, including scars and healing
Society's tendency to dismiss feelings and its impact on loneliness
Primary topic: Gender Expectations and Emotional Expression
Pressure on men to conform to societal expectations
Redefining societal expectations of masculinity
Encouraging emotional expression and vulnerability in men
Importance of allowing people, including men, to express emotions without judgment
Primary topic: Coping with Limitations and Self-Improvement
Acceptance of personal limitations and self-improvement
Managing imposter syndrome and the value of self-acceptance
Value of personal drive and self-improvement
Primary topic: Social Media and Mental Well-being
Negative impact of social media on mental health
Developing strong mental structures to filter out negativity
Interpretation of feedback and avoiding internalising baseless negativity
Primary topic: Conversations about Mental Health
The need for mental health education and open conversations
The importance of emotional expression and its impact on mental well-being
Understanding and diving deeper into mental health conversations
Addressing the limitations of simple check-ins
Primary topic: Challenging Conversational Dynamics
Recognising unproductive conversations about identity and beliefs
Importance of meaningful, deeper discussions
Understanding the concept of "Rubber ducking" for clarification and processing thoughts
Lack of understanding about holding space for others, especially among men
Primary topic: Personal Journeys and Self-Discovery
Gratitude for sharing struggles and personal journeys
Embracing fear, sharing big life announcements, and accepting oneself
Empowerment through embracing broken pieces and self-acceptance
Primary topic: Impact of Upbringing on Emotional Expression
Root causes of personal struggles linked to upbringing and emotional suppression
Impact of parental approach to emotions on personal struggles
Empowerment from opening up and sharing personal journeys
Primary topic: Physical and Mental Well-being
Personal trainer sessions and self-care efforts
Impact of intense workout sessions on mental and physical well-being
Coping with body image issues and personal loneliness
Primary topic: Supporting Others in Their Journeys
-Acknowledging the efforts of others to engage in deeper, vulnerable conversations
The importance of validation in supporting others' emotional well-being
Creating a society and workplace dynamics focused on listening and validation
🗞️ Newsletter
🎙️ The Inclusion Bites Podcast Newsletter 🎙️
Dear Inclusion Bites Community,
In our latest episode, titled "Listening, not fixing," the insightful conversation between host Joanne Lockwood and guest Greg Wasserman delves into themes of mental health, male stoicism, and the importance of opening up and listening without the need to emphasise or centre one's own self in the story.
Greg shares deeply personal experiences about the impact of a "fix it culture" on his struggles and validation, drawing attention to the detrimental effects of seeking constant solutions rather than genuine understanding and validation. His reflections on dysregulation and the emotions he was not taught to recognize or express are truly powerful.
Joanne provides invaluable insights into the need for genuine listening and vulnerability, highlighting the societal tendency to dismiss feelings rather than validate them, further contributing to loneliness and fear of sharing. Their discussion uncovers the societal pressure on men to adhere to stoic expectations and the detrimental effects on mental health and emotional expression.
The episode also delves into the changing narrative in movies towards more female-led characters, the importance of nurturing children in a less gendered and more empathetic way, and the immense value of investing in leadership development and promoting genuine connection in interactions.
Through their candid and deeply engaging conversation, Greg and Joanne illustrate the power of validating and acknowledging feelings, opening up about mental health, and creating safe spaces for genuine connection and understanding.
Be sure to tune in to this thought-provoking episode and gain insights on how to create emotionally healthy spaces in personal and professional interactions.
Remember to subscribe to The Inclusion Bites Podcast for more inclusive and impactful conversations like this one, and please feel free to reach out with any feedback or ideas for future episodes.
Warm regards,
[Your Name]
[Your Position]
The Inclusion Bites Podcast
Guest's content for their marketing
As a writer for "The Inclusion Bites Podcast," I can provide a response tailored to the podcast's content and conversation. Here's a potential article for Greg Wasserman to use for his own marketing purposes:
Title: Greg Wasserman Explores Vulnerability, Mental Health, and Authentic Conversation on The Inclusion Bites Podcast
I was honoured to be invited as a guest on The Inclusion Bites Podcast, where I had the opportunity to engage in a deeply meaningful dialogue with host Joanne Lockwood. Together, we delved into topics that are often overlooked but crucial to creating a more inclusive and empathetic society.
In this thought-provoking episode, we explored the impact of a "fix it culture," the challenges of seeking validation in a sales profession, and the detrimental effects of perfectionism on mental health and achievement. Our conversation touched on the need for understanding and vulnerability in the corporate world, the changing narrative in movies, and the societal discomfort around discussing issues like grief and vulnerability.
Through personal anecdotes and insightful reflections, we discussed the pressure of social media on mental health, the importance of redefining societal expectations of masculinity, and the need for genuine connection and understanding in interactions.
This episode offers a deeper understanding of the complexities surrounding vulnerability, mental health, and the societal pressure to maintain a stoic façade. Our conversation underscores the value of honest, authentic communication and the significant impact it can have on individual well-being and societal change.
I invite you to listen to this enlightening episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast to join in the exploration of these vital topics and to gain insights and perspectives that can contribute to a more inclusive and compassionate world.
I am grateful for the opportunity to share my experiences and thoughts on The Inclusion Bites Podcast, and I look forward to continuing these important conversations on vulnerability, mental health, and authentic connection in my work and personal interactions.
This article is aligned with the podcast's themes and content, emphasising the significance of the conversation and its potential impact on listeners.
Questions Asked that were insightful
During the interview, Joanne and Greg discussed various thought-provoking topics related to mental health, male stoicism, vulnerability, and the importance of listening. Here are some potential FAQs that can be derived from their insightful responses:
Q1: How did Greg's experiences and upbringing shape his viewpoint on seeking validation and the impact of a "fix it culture"?
A: Greg discussed how his upbringing and his parents' approach to problem-solving influenced his perspective on validation and the need to be heard rather than always seeking solutions. His insights provide a deep understanding of the impact of upbringing on emotional expression and validation.
Q2: What is the significance of "listening, not fixing" in the context of mental health and emotional support?
A: Joanne and Greg delved into the concept of listening without feeling the need to constantly provide solutions or relate personal experiences. They explored how simply being present, empathetic, and allowing for vulnerability can have a profound impact on mental health and well-being.
Q3: How does the societal expectation for men to embody stoicism affect their ability to open up and express emotions?
A: Greg shared his personal experiences, highlighting the challenges men face in expressing vulnerability due to societal expectations. He provided valuable insights into how these societal norms can impact mental health and community support.
Q4: What role does validation play in addressing feelings of loneliness and fear of sharing in society?
A: Both Joanne and Greg discussed the power of validation and providing a safe space for individuals to express their feelings without judgment. Their conversation sheds light on the importance of validation in combating loneliness and overcoming the fear of sharing inner struggles.
Q5: How did Joanne's personal journey towards self-acceptance and embracing vulnerability contribute to her understanding of the importance of opening up and seeking validation?
A: Joanne shared her experiences of self-acceptance, which have influenced her understanding of the power of vulnerability and seeking validation. Her insights provide a personal and relatable perspective on the journey towards emotional well-being and acceptance.
These FAQs can serve as conversation starters and help the audience engage with the themes discussed in the podcast, fostering a deeper understanding of mental health, communication, and the power of validation.
Pain Points and Challenges
Title: Opening Up: Overcoming Mental Health Challenges Through Listening and Understanding
Introduction:
In the episode "Listening, not fixing" of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Greg Wasserman and host Joanne Lockwood engage in a thought-provoking conversation about the detrimental impact of a fixed mindset, perfectionism, and societal expectations on mental health and well-being. The discussions around male stoicism, vulnerability, and the need for genuine listening without the compulsion to "fix" reveal profound insights into the challenges people face in expressing themselves and seeking understanding.
Pain Points and Challenges Addressed:
Male Stoicism and Societal Expectations: The episode sheds light on the societal pressure for men to conform to traditional notions of strength and stoicism, which often leads to emotional suppression and a lack of vulnerability. This repression of emotions can result in profound mental health challenges for men, including a sense of loneliness and the fear of not being able to share true feelings.
Perfectionism and Fixed Mindset: Greg Wasserman candidly discusses the negative effects of a perfectionist mindset, both in the corporate world and personal life. The relentless pursuit of perfection and the fear of vulnerability can contribute to feelings of inadequacy, self-doubt, and the reluctance to seek validation and support.
Lack of Genuine Listening and Validation: Both speakers highlight the significance of genuine listening and the power of validation in conversations. The absence of opportunities to be heard and validated can deepen feelings of loneliness, fear, and the inability to express one's true self.
Content Focus:
In response to these challenges, it is vital to create content that encourages open conversations, emphasizes the importance of vulnerability, and promotes effective listening and understanding.
Embracing Vulnerability and Emotion: Emphasize the importance of normalising vulnerability and emotions for men and all individuals. Encourage narratives that celebrate the courage it takes to express emotions and break free from the societal constructs of stoicism.
Redefining Masculinity: Challenge traditional stereotypes of masculinity by showcasing diverse stories that celebrate vulnerability, emotional expression, and strength in seeking support. Highlight the positive impact of breaking free from outdated expectations.
Cultivating a Culture of Genuine Listening: Advocate for creating safe spaces where individuals can express themselves without fear of judgment. Discuss the value of listening without the urge to "fix" or redirect the conversation, and provide tools for active and empathetic listening.
Seeking Support and Validation: Share resources for seeking professional support, building communities of understanding, and promoting validation. Highlight the empowering impact of finding spaces where one is seen and heard without judgment.
Conclusion:
By acknowledging these pain points and challenges, and focusing on the power of open communication, vulnerability, and genuine listening, we can work towards building a more inclusive and empathetic society. The journey towards mental well-being begins with understanding, validation, and the freedom to express oneself without fear or judgment. Let’s embrace the strength in vulnerability and create spaces where everyone can find support, validation, and empowerment.
Blog article based on the episode
Listening without the need to fix: The Power of Vulnerability and Understanding
Life presents us with a myriad of challenges and emotions that can often leave us feeling overwhelmed, unheard, and alone. In a world that often prioritizes problem-solving and fixing over listening and understanding, it's easy to find ourselves longing for genuine connection and validation. In a recent episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, titled "Listening, not fixing," host Joanne Lockwood and guest Greg Wasserman delved into the profound impact of embracing vulnerability, the importance of active listening, and the detrimental effects of a fix-it culture on mental health and relationships.
One of the key issues discussed in the episode revolves around the pervasive nature of the "fix-it culture," where the instinct to immediately offer solutions or share personal experiences often overshadows the simple act of listening. Greg Wasserman openly shares his experiences with feeling unheard and not good enough, stemming from a childhood environment that prioritized problem-solving over emotional validation. This problem of not being truly heard and understood is a common one, as many individuals find themselves yearning for acknowledgment and validation rather than solutions.
However, the conversation doesn't just highlight the issue at hand; it also offers actionable items to address it. Understanding the power of vulnerability and actively listening without the need to always fix the situation emerges as a crucial step towards creating a more empathetic and inclusive society. Greg emphasises the importance of acknowledging and sitting with discomfort for personal growth and change, a powerful reminder of the value in allowing ourselves and others to experience emotions without immediately seeking solutions.
The episode also sheds light on the societal tendency to uphold toxic masculinity and the pressure men face to conform to stoic stereotypes, often leading to emotional repression and a reluctance to open up. By acknowledging this issue and promoting a culture of supportive listening and understanding, the podcast encourages a shift towards a more compassionate and inclusive approach to mental health and emotional well-being.
In conclusion, "Listening, not fixing" serves as a poignant reminder of the transformative power of vulnerability and understanding. By embracing genuine connection and actively listening without the need to fix or center our own experiences, we can create spaces where people feel truly seen and heard. It's a call to action for us to foster empathy, shatter the barriers of toxic masculinity, and cultivate inclusive environments where individuals feel free to express themselves without fear of judgment.
Greg Wasserman's candid reflections and Joanne Lockwood's insightful perspectives provide a compelling source of inspiration for embracing vulnerability and redefining our approach to communication and emotional support. As we navigate our personal and professional interactions, let's remember the profound impact of simply listening, acknowledging, and empathizing with others. By doing so, we can contribute to a more compassionate and inclusive world where everyone's voices are valued and heard.
The episode "Listening, not fixing" is a powerful testament to the value of vulnerability, understanding, and the transformative impact of truly listening to others. As we internalize these lessons, let's actively work towards creating spaces where everyone feels seen, heard, and valued.
Join the movement towards inclusive and empathetic communication by tuning in to The Inclusion Bites Podcast and embracing the power of genuine listening and understanding. Together, we can foster environments that prioritize empathy, vulnerability, and the transformative power of acknowledging and sitting with discomfort for personal and societal growth.
The standout line from this episode
"Listening is about being present, not about fixing."
❓ Questions
How does Greg Wasserman's personal experience highlight the impact of a "fix it culture" on mental health and emotional well-being in society and the workplace?
What does Joanne Lockwood's approach to listening without always trying to fix the other person teach us about creating more inclusive and empathetic conversations?
In what ways does Greg Wasserman's experiences with male stoicism and opening up reflect broader societal challenges around vulnerability and emotional expression for men?
How does the emphasis on validation and sitting with discomfort, as discussed by Greg Wasserman and Joanne Lockwood, contribute to fostering healthier workplace dynamics and personal growth?
What role does societal expectation play in perpetuating loneliness and fear of sharing emotions, as discussed by Greg and Joanne in the context of mental health and well-being?
In what ways do personal narratives and shared experiences, such as those discussed by Greg and Joanne, contribute to creating a more inclusive and understanding environment for discussing mental health?
How can the concept of "listening, not fixing" be applied in personal and professional relationships to encourage more open and supportive conversations?
What steps can be taken to redefine societal expectations of masculinity and encourage emotional expression and vulnerability in men, as discussed by Greg and Joanne?
How can the understanding of psychological safety and the detrimental effects of a perfectionist mindset contribute to better leadership and corporate culture, as highlighted in the episode?
What are the key takeaways from Greg Wasserman and Joanne Lockwood's conversation in terms of promoting mental health awareness, empathy, and genuine connection in society and the workplace?
FAQs from the Episode
FAQ: Listening, not fixing - Inclusion Bites Podcast Episode 92
Q: What was the main focus of the conversation between Greg Wasserman and Joanne Lockwood on the Inclusion Bites Podcast Episode 92?
A: The conversation centred around topics such as the impact of a fixed mindset, the unhealthy culture of seeking perfection, the need for vulnerability and understanding in the corporate world, societal expectations of masculinity, mental health, and the importance of listening without always trying to "fix" the other person.
Q: How did Greg Wasserman and Joanne Lockwood discuss male stoicism and the pressure on men to always stay strong in the episode?
A: Greg and Joanne explored the societal expectation for men to show strength and resilience, the challenges of displaying vulnerability as a man, and the detrimental effects of male stoicism on relationships and individual well-being.
Q: What was the significance of the phrase "thank you for sharing" in the conversation between Greg and Joanne?
A: They highlighted the phrase "thank you for sharing" as powerful, as it acknowledges the speaker's feelings and experiences, without trying to fix or relate the story to oneself. This approach emphasises the importance of listening and validation in conversations.
Q: How did the conversation address the impact of social media on mental health and the need for strong mental structures to filter out negativity?
A: Greg and Joanne discussed the negative impact of social media on mental health, the pressure of social media, and the importance of developing strong mental structures to filter out negativity while interpreting feedback appropriately and not internalising baseless negativity.
Q: What were the key takeaways from the conversation about emotional expression and realizing the need to redefine societal expectations of masculinity?
A: The conversation highlighted the need for redefining societal expectations of masculinity, allowing for vulnerability and emotional expression in men and in society as a whole. They discussed the pressure on men to live up to societal expectations, family responsibilities, and the challenges of showing vulnerability as a man.
Q: How did Joanne Lockwood and Greg Wasserman discuss the concept of opening up and embracing vulnerability in the episode?
A: Greg and Joanne emphasised the need for understanding and vulnerability in the corporate world, the importance of accepting oneself, and the need to allow people, including men, to express their emotions without judgment. They shared personal experiences and highlighted the significance of acknowledging and sitting with discomfort for personal growth and change.
Q: What were the personal experiences shared by Joanne Lockwood and Greg Wasserman in the episode related to body image, loneliness, and personal health journeys?
A: Personal anecdotes about body image and loneliness were shared, highlighting the impact of societal tendencies to dismiss feelings, the fear of judgment, and the significance of personal care efforts, including intense workout sessions and personal training sessions for self-care and well-being.
Q: How did the hosts address mental health first aid and training in the episode?
A: Joanne discussed the importance of mental health first aid and training for having conversations about mental health, sharing personal experiences related to losing people to suicide, and highlighting the need for deeper understanding and conversations about mental health.
Q: How did Greg Wasserman and Joanne Lockwood discuss the impact of dysregulation and the role of validation in society and workplace dynamics?
A: Greg shared his current understanding of dysregulation and the emotions he was not taught to recognize or express, emphasising the importance of listening and validation instead of constantly seeking solutions or trying to relate personal experiences in order to improve society and workplace dynamics.
Q: What were the key insights shared about societal expectations and the need for education and nurturing children in a less gendered and more empathetic way?
A: The conversation touched on the need to redefine societal expectations of masculinity, nurture children in a less gendered and more empathetic way, and educate parents and society about gender identity, emotions, and nurturing children without gender stereotypes.
This FAQ aims to capture the key themes, discussions, and insights from the Inclusion Bites Podcast Episode 92, "Listening, not fixing," featuring Greg Wasserman and Joanne Lockwood.
Tell me more about the guest and their views
The guest on this episode is Greg Wasserman, a "gladwelling superconnector" who shares his insights on mental health, societal expectations of masculinity, and the importance of listening without constantly seeking solutions or trying to relate personal experiences. Greg talks about the impact of a "fix-it culture" on his own struggles and sense of validation, highlighting the need for genuine validation and listening, as opposed to constantly seeking solutions or trying to relate personal experiences. He emphasises the detrimental effects of a perfectionist mindset, particularly in a sales profession, and advocates for understanding and vulnerability in the corporate world. Greg also discusses societal discomfort around discussing issues like grief and vulnerability, as well as the impact of social media on mental health, comparing and self-deprecation, and the pressure of societal expectations.
Furthermore, Greg and Joanne explore the societal tendency to dismiss feelings rather than validate them, which contributes to loneliness and the fear of sharing true feelings. Greg highlights the importance of allowing people, including men, to express their emotions without judgment and the need to redefine societal expectations of masculinity. Throughout the episode, Greg's views centre around the importance of mental health, vulnerability, and the need to listen without the need to emphasise or centre one’s own self in the stories of others.
Ideas for Future Training and Workshops based on this Episode
Workshop Title: "Cultivating Empathy and Vulnerability in the Workplace"
Description: This workshop focuses on creating a more inclusive and supportive workplace culture by cultivating empathy, vulnerability, and active listening. The training will be based on the insightful conversation from the "Listening, not fixing" episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, featuring Greg Wasserman. Participants will learn how to create a safe space for open dialogue, embrace vulnerability, and practice active listening without the need to "fix" or centre their own experiences.
Workshop Topics:
Understanding the Impact of Fixed Mindset and Perfectionism
Fostering Psychological Safety and Embracing Vulnerability
Building Empathy through Listening and Validation
Redefining Masculinity: Supporting Emotional Expression in the Workplace
Creating Inclusive Leadership: The Role of Vulnerability and Understanding
Mental Health First Aid: Having Meaningful Conversations in the Workplace
Training Objectives:
Gain insight into the detrimental effects of fixed mindset and the pressure for perfectionism in the workplace.
Understand the concept of psychological safety and its role in promoting vulnerability and open communication.
Develop skills in active listening, empathetic validation, and creating a safe space for sharing experiences.
Explore the expectations of masculinity and redefine societal norms around emotional expression in professional settings.
Identify and address mental health challenges in the workplace through meaningful conversations and support systems.
Training Methods:
Interactive discussions
Role-playing scenarios
Case studies and real-life examples
Group activities and reflection exercises
Benefits:
Improved communication and collaboration in the workplace
Increased empathy and support for colleagues' wellbeing
Reducing stigma around mental health issues
Strengthening leadership skills in creating inclusive and supportive environments
Promoting a culture of understanding and vulnerability
The workshop will cater to leaders, managers, HR professionals, and employees to foster an environment of support, understanding, and empathy in the workplace.
🪡 Threads by Instagram
Embracing vulnerability is not a sign of weakness but a display of strength. On #InclusionBites, Greg Wasserman and Joanne Lockwood delve into the power of listening without the need to "fix" others, encouraging open, empathetic conversations.
The pressure to conform to societal expectations of masculinity can stifle emotional expression. Join Greg and Joanne's conversation on redefining masculinity, fostering genuine connections, and allowing men to embrace vulnerability without judgement.
Seeking validation and genuine understanding is a fundamental human need. Greg and Joanne's discussion on #InclusionBites sheds light on the importance of creating spaces where individuals can feel heard, accepted, and supported without the pressure to "fix" them.
Mental health conversations are often complex, requiring a depth of understanding and empathy. Greg and Joanne's insights on acknowledging discomfort, validating emotions, and engaging in meaningful dialogue offer a refreshing perspective on supporting mental well-being.
True inclusion starts with genuine listening. Join Greg Wasserman and Joanne Lockwood on #InclusionBites as they explore the impact of a "fix it culture", the power of vulnerability, and the need for authentic connections in fostering a more inclusive society.
Leadership Insights - YouTube Short Video Script on Common Problems for Leaders to Address
[Opening shot of Leadership Insights Channel logo]
[Background music fades out]
Host:
Hello and welcome to the Leadership Insights Channel. Today, we're going to delve into a common problem faced by leaders: the challenge of creating an inclusive and supportive environment while tackling male stoicism and fostering open communication.
[Text on screen: Challenge: Tackling Male Stoicism]
Host:
Many leaders struggle with the expectation of stoicism, especially among male employees. This can lead to a lack of open communication and hinder mental well-being in the workplace.
[Text on screen: Actions for Leaders]
Host:
Here are some key actions and behaviours for leaders that can result in a positive outcome:
Foster Psychological Safety:
Create an environment where all team members feel safe expressing their thoughts and emotions without the fear of judgement or retribution.Practice Active Listening:
Take the time to genuinely listen to your team members without the need to relate personal experiences or offer immediate solutions. Simply acknowledging their feelings can make a significant difference.Lead by Example:
Demonstrate vulnerability and emotional honesty, showing that it's acceptable to express emotions and seek support when needed.Provide Mental Health Support:
Invest in mental health first aid training for your team and create avenues for open conversations about mental well-being in the workplace.
[Text on screen: Positive Outcomes]
Host:
By implementing these actions, leaders can create an inclusive and supportive environment where team members feel valued, heard, and supported. This can lead to increased well-being, stronger team dynamics, and improved overall performance.
[Closing shot of Leadership Insights Channel logo]
[Background music plays]
Host:
Thank you for watching this episode of the Leadership Insights Channel. Remember, by understanding and embracing emotional openness, leaders can positively impact the well-being and success of their teams.
[Text on screen: Subscribe for more Leadership Insights]
[End of video]
SEO Optimised Titles
Breaking the Silence: Understanding Male Stoicism | Mental health conversations | Changing societal expectations | Greg @Cast Magic
Email Newsletter about this Podcast Episode
Subject: Your Inclusion Bites Podcast Recap: Listening, Not Fixing
Hey Everyone,
I hope you're doing awesome today! If you haven't caught the latest episode of The Inclusion Bytes Podcast, you're in for a treat! Joanne Lockwood invited Greg Wasserman to discuss some thought-provoking topics, and I just had to share some highlights with you.
Here's what you'll take away:
5 Keys You'll Learn:
The detrimental effects of a perfectionist mindset in sales and the need for validation and support when facing rejection.
The importance of understanding and vulnerability in the corporate world, particularly in leadership roles, and the "Peter Principle" phenomenon.
The value of listening without always trying to fix the other person—a skill that's essential for inclusive interactions.
The impact of comparison and social media on mental health and the need to develop strong mental structures to filter out negativity.
The societal expectations placed on men and the pressing need to redefine masculinity, allowing for vulnerability and emotional expression in men and society as a whole.
Unique Fact:
Ever heard of "Rubber Ducking"? Greg and Joanne explore this technique, where one talks through a problem with an inanimate object to clarify and process their thoughts. Intriguing, right?
Call to Action:
If you're ready to delve into these eye-opening conversations on inclusion, belonging, and mental health, tune in to the full episode and subscribe to the Inclusion Bites Podcast. Let's keep these enriching conversations going!
Wrapping Up:
After listening to this episode, I am inspired to continue promoting open and genuine communication. Join me in taking these insights to heart and championing a culture of listening and empathy.
Take care, and I'll catch you soon!
Warm regards,
[Your Name]
Potted Summary
Welcome to the Inclusion Bites Podcast! Join host Joanne Lockwood and guest Greg Wasserman in an insightful conversation on mental health, male stoicism, and the power of opening up and listening without the need to centre oneself.
👉 Greg's struggles with a fixed mindset
👉 The impact of societal expectations on men
👉 The importance of validating emotions
Here are a few of our favourite quotable moments:
"The key takeaway for me was to genuinely listen, not to fix."
"Embracing broken pieces with gold represents beauty, acceptance, and empowerment."
"Sharing big life announcements makes it easier to share other aspects of life."
Tune in and broaden your perspective on mental health and vulnerability. Subscribe now to The Inclusion Bites Podcast for more thought-provoking discussions!
LinkedIn Poll
Opening summary:
In a recent episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Greg Wasserman and Joanne Lockwood discussed the impact of a "fix it" culture, male stoicism, and the importance of opening up and actively listening. Drawing from their insightful conversation, let's dive into the topic of emotional expression and mental health in today's workplace. Your voice matters, so share your thoughts in this poll!
LinkedIn poll question:
How can we create a more inclusive workplace?
Poll responses:
"Listen without fixing" #ActiveListening 🎧
"Empower emotional expression" #MentalHealth 💬
"Challenge male stoicism" #Vulnerability 👥
"Promote psychological safety" #Inclusion 🌈
Closing why vote:
Your input can drive positive change in workplace dynamics and foster a more inclusive environment for everyone. Cast your vote and let's make a difference together!
Highlight the Importance of this topic on LinkedIn
🌟 Recently had the privilege of tuning into the Inclusion Bites Podcast hosted by Joanne Lockwood, where the discussion on mental health, male stoicism, opening up, and the power of listening was incredibly enlightening. 💬
As an HR or EDI professional, embracing these conversations is vital to breaking down barriers and fostering a more inclusive and supportive workplace culture. 🌈
Let's continue to encourage vulnerability, genuine connection, and active listening - these are the building blocks of a truly inclusive environment. 🌟 #InclusionMatters #MentalHealthAwareness #LeadershipDevelopment
L&D Insights
This episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast provides valuable insights for Senior Leaders, HR professionals, and EDI experts. Greg Wasserman and Joanne Lockwood provide "aha moments" by highlighting the importance of listening without the need to emphasise or centre oneself in the story.🎙️
Senior leaders and HR professionals can learn the significance of psychological safety and vulnerability in the corporate world, especially in leadership roles. The "Peter Principle" is discussed, emphasising the need for investment in leadership development to avoid promoting individuals to levels of incompetence. #InclusionBites #LeadershipDevelopment
One key takeaway is the unhealthy nature of always trying to "fix" each other and the need for genuine connection and understanding in interactions. This insight can lead to a shift in approach, fostering a culture of active listening and acceptance within the workplace. #ActiveListening #InclusivityMatters
Furthermore, the discussion on mental health first aid and the pressure on men to live up to societal expectations provides an opportunity for Senior Leaders and EDI professionals to re-evaluate their approach to wellbeing initiatives. By acknowledging the need for deeper conversations and redefining societal expectations of masculinity, organisations can foster a more supportive environment. #MentalHealthMatters #DiversityandInclusion
In light of this, leaders can encourage open discussions, provide resources for mental health awareness, and promote a culture that embraces vulnerability and emotional expression for all employees. #LeadershipMindset #EmpathyAtWork
Ultimately, this resource calls for a paradigm shift in how leaders and HR professionals approach their roles, emphasising the importance of active listening, vulnerability, and mental health support to cultivate a more inclusive and supportive workplace environment. #VulnerabilityInLeadership #InclusiveCulture
Glossary of Terms and Phrases
Psychological safety - The concept of feeling safe to express oneself, take risks, and be vulnerable without fear of retribution or judgment. It allows for open dialogue and collaboration in the workplace.
Peter Principle - The idea that employees are promoted based on their success in their current role rather than their abilities in the new role, leading to incompetence at higher levels of an organization.
Imposter syndrome - A psychological pattern where individuals doubt their accomplishments, fear being exposed as frauds, and attribute their success to luck rather than their abilities.
Mental health first aid - The help and support provided to someone experiencing a mental health crisis or developing a mental health problem. It involves recognising the signs of mental health issues and providing initial assistance and guidance.
Rubber ducking - A problem-solving technique where one explains an issue or situation to an inanimate object or imaginary person to gain a clearer understanding of the problem and potential solutions.
Dysregulation - An inability to manage and express emotions effectively, often stemming from a lack of emotional support or guidance during upbringing.
Toxic masculinity - A cultural concept that enforces traditional male gender roles, limits emotional expression, and promotes aggression and dominance, often at the expense of mental and emotional well-being.
These concepts reflect a deeper exploration of mental health, workplace dynamics, and societal perceptions, aiming to encourage understanding and empathy in challenging conversations.
SEO Optimised YouTube Content
Focus Keyword: Positive People Experiences
Title: "Embracing Culture Change | #InclusionBitesPodcast"
Tags: Positive People Experiences, Inclusion, Mental Health, Culture Change, Leadership Development, Psychological Safety, Gender Equality, Vulnerability, Resilience, Podcast, Conversations, Acceptance, Male Stoicism, Personal Growth, Validation, Grief, Acceptance, Empathy, #Inclusion, #Belonging, #SelfImprovement, #GenderEquality, #Leadership, #Podcast, #MentalHealth, #Validation, #Empathy
Killer Quote: "Fear can be addressed by talking about it, seeking validation, and accepting oneself." - Greg Wasserman
Hashtags: #InclusionBitesPodcast, #PositivePeopleExperiences, #CultureChange, #EmotionalIntelligence, #PersonalGrowth, #GenderEquality, #EmpathyInLeadership, #MentalHealthMatters, #ValidationMatters, #ListeningSkills, #VulnerabilityInLeadership, #PodcastRecommendation, #ConversationsThatMatter, #SelfAcceptance, #Resilience, #InclusiveLeadership, #MentalWellbeing, #EmbracingChange, #SeeChangeHappen
Why Listen:
In this thought-provoking episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Greg and I delve deep into the powerful impact of embracing culture change and the significance of positive people experiences. We explore the transformational journey towards integrating mental health conversations, resilience, and empathy in leadership development, unleashing the full potential of individuals and fostering a more inclusive society. Join us as we uncover the nuances of male stoicism, vulnerability, and the intricate balance between seeking validation and accepting oneself. Our candid and insightful discussion provides actionable insights for personal growth and highlights the pivotal role of psychological safety in driving a cultural shift towards embracing diverse perspectives.
Closing Summary and Call to Action:
Embracing Vulnerability: Understanding the detrimental effects of a perfectionist mindset and the power of vulnerability in fostering healthy social dynamics.
Redefining Masculinity: Exploring the societal expectations on men and advocating for a redefinition of masculinity to embrace emotional expression without judgment.
Mental Health Conversations: Recognising the importance of holding space for mental health discussions, and the need for deeper understanding and support, especially among men.
Empathy in Leadership: Emphasising the value of empathy and the role it plays in nurturing a culture of inclusion and mental wellbeing within corporate environments.
Personal Growth: Encouraging self-validation and acceptance, addressing fears and embracing broken pieces with gold, to fuel personal growth and empowerment.
Outro:
Thank you, dear listener, for tuning in and engaging with our enlightening conversation. To explore more enriching content, don't forget to like and subscribe to The Inclusion Bites Podcast. For additional resources and information, visit the SEE Change Happen website: https://seechangehappen.co.uk. You can also find more insightful episodes on The Inclusion Bites Podcast here: https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen. Stay curious, stay kind, and stay inclusive - Joanne Lockwood
Root Cause Analyst - Why!
The key problems related to this episode are:
Difficulty in expressing emotions and opening up, especially for men.
Lack of genuine listening and validation in conversations, leading to a fix-it culture.
Societal pressure to present oneself as "perfect" and the impact of social media on self-esteem.
Challenges in addressing mental health and creating a culture of openness and support.
The perpetuation of superficial conversations instead of engaging in meaningful dialogues.
Why is there difficulty in expressing emotions and opening up, especially for men?
Men are conditioned by societal expectations to adhere to traditional concepts of masculinity, which includes being stoic and not displaying vulnerability, leading to a lack of emotional expression.
Why are men conditioned to adhere to traditional concepts of masculinity?
Societal norms, cultural portrayals, and historical stereotypes reinforce the idea that men should be strong, unemotional, and self-sufficient to maintain their status and authority.
Why do societal norms, cultural portrayals, and historical stereotypes reinforce traditional concepts of masculinity?
Gender roles have been ingrained through generations, and media representations often perpetuate these stereotypes, shaping societal expectations and perceptions of gender norms.
Why have gender roles been ingrained through generations, and why do media representations perpetuate these stereotypes?
Historical divisions of labour, patriarchal structures, and the reinforcement of gender norms have contributed to the perpetuation of traditional masculinity, while media representations often rely on these established norms for storytelling and character portrayal.
Why have historical divisions of labour, patriarchal structures, and the reinforcement of gender norms been perpetuated?
Deeply rooted systemic and institutional biases, compounded by generational cycles of reinforcement, have sustained traditional gender norms and stereotypes over time.
Summarised findings and potential solutions:
The root cause of the difficulties in emotional expression and openness for men lies in deeply ingrained societal expectations and historical stereotypes of traditional masculinity. Addressing the root cause involves challenging traditional gender norms and stereotypes through education and awareness, promoting diverse and authentic representations of masculinity in media, fostering open dialogue around gender roles, and encouraging emotional literacy and expression. Initiatives such as mental health education, leadership development, and inclusive storytelling can help shift societal perceptions and expectations, creating a culture of openness, empathy, and understanding for all individuals, regardless of gender.
TikTok/Reels/Shorts Video Summary
Focus Keyword: Positive People Experiences
Title: Embracing Change | #InclusionBitesPodcast
Tags: Inclusion, MentalHealth, Diversity, SocialChange, Empathy, GrowthMindset, Vulnerability, LeadershipDevelopment, Empowerment, Acceptance, Wellbeing, GenderEquality, SelfImprovement, HealthyConversations, PersonalGrowth, WorkplaceCulture, CommunicationSkills, MentalWellness, EmotionalIntelligence, AuthenticConnection,
Killer Quote: "The impact of a 'fix it culture' has affected my struggles and sense of validation." - Greg Wasserman
Hashtags: #Inclusion #CultureChange #Belonging #InclusiveLeadership #DiverseVoices #EmotionalHealth #ListenAndLearn #SelfAcceptance #PersonalDevelopment #MaleVulnerability #AuthenticConnection #MentalHealthAwareness #EmpatheticLeadership #GrowthMindset #HealthyConversations #GenderEquality #MindfulListening #SocialChange #PersonalGrowth #EmpathyInAction #WellbeingInclusion #LeadershipDevelopment #EmbraceChange #PositivePeopleExperiences
Summary Description: In this episode of #InclusionBitesPodcast, Joanne and Greg delve into the transformative power of embracing change, fostering more positive experiences, and driving a culture change. Greg shares his personal journey of breaking free from the pressures of a "fix it culture" and the impact it had on his mental health. Discover the insight into male stoicism, opening up, and the importance of listening without emphasising or centring one's own self in the story. Tune in to gain a deeper understanding and learn how to foster an environment that embraces growth, vulnerability, and authentic connection in both personal and professional spaces. Join us on this transformative journey towards positive people experiences and inclusive, empathetic leadership.
Outro: Thank you for tuning in! Don't forget to like and subscribe to the channel for more empowering conversations. For more information, visit the SEE Change Happen website: SEE Change Happen website. Listen to the full episode on "The Inclusion Bites Podcast" here. Stay curious, stay kind, and stay inclusive - Joanne Lockwood.
6 major topics
Title: Nurturing Vulnerability: A Deep Dive into Mental Health and Male Stoicism
Introduction:
Today, I had a truly compelling conversation with Greg Wasserman that touched on some profound issues surrounding mental health and the societal expectations of male stoicism. We delved into an array of topics, each offering a unique perspective on the challenges individuals face in opening up and embracing vulnerability.
The Toll of Perfectionism:
We began our discussion by exploring the detrimental effects of perfectionism in both personal and professional realms. Greg candidly shared his experiences in a sales profession, shedding light on the pressure individuals face when striving for an unattainable standard. The conversation swiftly transitioned into the impact of comparison and self-deprecation, particularly within corporate environments. We mutually recognised the immense burden that striving for perfection places on mental well-being and the detrimental influence it has on individuals.
Navigating Mental Health Conversations:
As we continued our conversation, we delved into the intricacies of mental health conversations. Greg candidly shared his personal journey and laid bare the societal discomfort around discussing issues like grief and vulnerability. Together, we explored the importance of developing strong mental structures to filter out negativity, and the fine line between interpreting feedback appropriately and not internalising unwarranted negativity. This led to a thought-provoking exchange on the need for mental health first aid and training, for guiding productive conversations about mental health, ultimately highlighting the crucial role education plays in nurturing a more empathetic society.
Redefining Masculinity:
Shifting our focus to societal expectations of masculinity, our conversation took an introspective turn. Greg and I passionately discussed the need to redefine these expectations and create space for emotional expression in men. We reflected on the societal pressure for men to consistently exude strength, and the impact this has on relationships and individual well-being. Delving into our personal experiences further, we emphasised the urgent need to allow men to express their emotions without fear of judgment.
The Power of Listening:
We didn't merely scratch the surface in our conversation - we dove into the concept of active listening. We discussed the need to listen without always trying to fix the other person, and how this simple act of lending an ear can pave the way for deep, meaningful connections. Greg also touched on creating a safer space for mental health conversations and elucidated the importance of understanding and holding space for others, especially among men.
Acceptance and Self-Validation:
Finally, our conversation circled back to the deeply personal aspects of acceptance and self-validation. Greg vulnerably shared the impact of a "fix it culture" and its repercussions, revealing his own struggles and desire for validation. We explored the powerful role of sharing big life announcments in nurturing conversation around authenticity, and delved into the emotional release and empowerment that comes from embracing one's broken pieces and scars. We attempted to unravel the societal tendency to dismiss feelings, and how this further exacerbates loneliness and the fear of sharing.
In conclusion, Greg and I covered a plethora of subjects, from the toll of perfectionism to the power of listening, culminating in a deep understanding of emotional vulnerability. Our dialogue not only revealed the complexities of mental health and societal expectations but also underscored the transformative power of embracing personal authenticity and nurturing meaningful connections.
Slogans and Image Prompts
Soundbite: "Listen, don't fix."
AI image generation prompt: Create an image of a serene and attentive ear symbol, surrounded by calming colours and gentle waves, representing the art of listening without the need to solve or fix. The text "Listen, don't fix" should be elegantly incorporated into the design.
Quote: "Embrace broken pieces with gold."
AI image generation prompt: Design an elegant and emotive image of shattered glass delicately fused together with shimmering gold, portraying the beauty of acceptance and empowerment. The image should evoke a sense of resilience and strength. The quote "Embrace broken pieces with gold" should be interwoven with the design.
Slogan: "Validate, not dismiss."
AI image generation prompt: Generate an image of a supportive hand reaching out to another, emanating warmth and understanding. Incorporate the slogan "Validate, not dismiss" in a soft, comforting font to convey the message of empathy and acceptance.
Soundbite: "Awakening vulnerability, nurturing strength."
AI image generation prompt: Design an evocative image of a lotus flower emerging from the depths of water, encapsulating the concept of vulnerability leading to inner strength. The text "Awakening vulnerability, nurturing strength" should be integrated in a graceful, flowing script.
Quote: "Acceptance is empowerment."
AI image generation prompt: Create an uplifting image of open arms embracing the universe, capturing the essence of acceptance and empowerment. The quote "Acceptance is empowerment" should be prominently featured, surrounded by vibrant celestial elements symbolising growth and positivity.
The Hook
Are you ready to unlock the secrets to fostering genuine connections and embracing vulnerability while boosting your mental resilience? It's time to dive deep into the art of listening without the urge to fix, in our latest podcast episode!
What if I told you that the key to unlocking personal growth and impactful leadership lies in honing your ability to genuinely listen, without the compulsion to constantly provide solutions? It's all about creating space for authentic exchanges – don't miss our latest podcast episode as we explore the power of receptive communication!
Imagine navigating the realms of mental well-being and leadership with the effectiveness of a seasoned pro, all by mastering the valuable skill of not fixing, but listening. Get ready to uncover the transformative potential of genuine connection in our exciting podcast episode!
Have you ever pondered the remarkable impacts of embracing vulnerability, fostering connections, and harnessing the strength of actively listening, without fixating on solutions? The answers lie within our latest podcast episode – immerse yourself in the profound insights that await!
Step into the world of genuine connections, authentic leadership, and fortified mental resilience as we delve into the transformative concept of listening without fixing in our gripping new podcast episode. It's time to ignite your journey towards impactful change and growth!
The Hook
Ever wondered about the secret to unlocking genuine connections in your entrepreneurial journey? Prepare to delve into the power of listening, vulnerability, and embracing imperfections with our latest podcast episode.
Feeling the squeeze of societal norms on your entrepreneurial path? Get ready to uncover the keys to cultivating authentic leadership, reshaping expectations, and fostering deeper connections in our upcoming podcast episode.
Are you hungry for insights on enhancing your personal growth as an entrepreneur? Join us as we explore the transformative impact of genuine listening, embracing vulnerability, and an inclusivity mindset in our newest episode.
Ready to break free from the constraints of traditional masculinity and redefine your path to success? Discover the transformative influence of empathetic leadership, open conversations, and embracing imperfections in our upcoming podcast episode.
Seeking to empower your leadership journey with authentic connections and inclusive practices? Untangle the factors shaping today's entrepreneurial landscape as we explore the impact of listening, vulnerability, and dismantling societal expectations in our latest podcast episode.
Inclusion Bites Spotlight
Greg Wasserman, our esteemed guest on "Listening, not fixing," this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, provides a compelling perspective on mental health, male stoicism, and the power of vulnerability. As a prominent advocate for deep, meaningful conversations, Greg brings a refreshing approach to fostering empathy and understanding in societal and workplace dynamics.
Greg addresses the detrimental effects of a "fix it culture" and its impact on personal struggles and validation. He emphasises the importance of listening and validation, rather than constantly seeking solutions or trying to relate personal experiences, in order to improve society and workplace dynamics.
In this thought-provoking episode, Greg shares his personal experiences and insights on opening up, embracing vulnerability, and the need for genuine, attentive listening. His reflections shed light on the complexities of male stoicism, fear of sharing, and the wider implications for societal inclusivity.
As a gladwelling superconnector, Greg's perspectives align seamlessly with the ethos of our podcast, championing conversations that foster inclusivity and belonging. His focus on mental health, societal expectations, and the power of genuine connection makes this episode an invaluable resource for anyone seeking to understand and navigate the complexities of human emotions.
This episode with Greg Wasserman will undoubtedly provide a unique and introspective journey into the transformative potential of listening without the need to emphasize or centre oneself in the story. It offers a fresh perspective on creating an inclusive space where individuals can feel seen, heard, and validated, regardless of societal expectations around vulnerability and masculinity.
Tune in to this enlightening episode as Greg shares his deep insights and reflections, sparking meaningful conversations about inclusion, mental health, and the power of allowing oneself to be heard and understood.
YouTube Description
Title: Unmasking Male Stoicism: The Power of Vulnerability and Listening in Mental Health | Inclusion Bites Podcast
Description:
🔥 Ready to challenge societal norms around male stoicism? Join Greg Wasserman and Joanne Lockwood on a profound journey of personal growth, vulnerability, and the power of deep listening in the latest episode of the Inclusion Bites Podcast.
🧠 Gain insight into the detrimental effects of striving for perfection, embracing vulnerability, and overcoming the pressure to "fix" others. Discover the impact of psychological safety in personal and professional spaces, and the transformative effects of acknowledging discomfort.
💡 Dive into thought-provoking discussions on the societal expectations placed on men, navigating mental health conversations, and advocating for inclusion. Uncover the compelling narrative of acceptance, personal growth, and redefining masculinity in the context of emotional expression.
⚡️ Don't miss out on transformative takeaways and actionable steps to challenge male stoicism, advocate for mental health awareness, and cultivate genuine connections through active listening.
🔗 Connect with us by subscribing for more thought-provoking insights and conversations on the Inclusion Bites Podcast. Let's join hands and encourage a culture of vulnerability, inclusion, and authentic connection.
#MaleStoicism #Vulnerability #MentalHealthAwareness #InclusionMatters #ActiveListening #RedefiningMasculinity #Perfectionism #PsychologicalSafety #SelfAcceptance #EmotionalWellbeing
10 Question Quiz
Certainly! Here's a multiple choice quiz based on the material as it relates to the topic "Listening, not fixing":
What concept did Joanne Lockwood emphasize as crucial in the corporate world and leadership roles?
A. Perfectionism
B. Vulnerability
C. Gender identity
D. Self-improvementHow does Joanne Lockwood suggest managing conversations effectively?
A. Always trying to fix the other person
B. Engaging in unproductive arguments
C. Recognising nonproductive conversations
D. Focusing on one's own identityWhat does Greg Wasserman emphasise as essential in preventing health issues in men?
A. Stoicism
B. Vulnerability and understanding
C. Confrontational mindset
D. Comparing oneself to othersGreg Wasserman's platform, Cast Magic, primarily focuses on:
A. Social media marketing
B. Repurposing audio and video content
C. Mental health discussions
D. Professional training for menWhat does Joanne Lockwood highlight as crucial in the process of personal growth and change?
A. Constantly seeking solutions
B. Acknowledging and sitting with discomfort
C. Keeping conversations superficial
D. Avoiding deeper, meaningful discussionsAccording to Greg Wasserman, the lack of understanding in holding space for others is especially prominent among:
A. Women
B. Men
C. Teenagers
D. ChildrenWhat does Joanne Lockwood express gratitude for at the end of the episode?
A. Greg sharing his story
B. Offering professional training
C. Focusing on personal development
D. Engaging in superficial conversationsWhat phrase does Greg Wasserman find powerful in acknowledging the speaker's feelings?
A. "Let's move on"
B. "Thank you for sharing"
C. "I understand"
D. "Stop talking"According to the speakers, what does embracing broken pieces with gold represent?
A. Perfectionism
B. Acceptance and empowerment
C. Gender identity
D. Self-improvementWhat does Joanne Lockwood discuss as a means of addressing fear and embracing broken pieces?
A. Seeking validation and personal acceptance
B. Avoiding validation from others
C. Fearing judgement and lack of validation
D. Dismissing feelings rather than validating them
Answer Key:
B - Vulnerability: Joanne Lockwood emphasizes the need for vulnerability in the corporate world and leadership roles to understand and support others.
C - Recognising nonproductive conversations: Joanne Lockwood suggests managing conversations effectively by recognizing when a conversation is nonproductive.
B - Vulnerability and understanding: Greg Wasserman emphasizes the importance of listening and understanding to prevent health issues in men.
B - Repurposing audio and video content: Greg Wasserman's platform, Cast Magic, primarily focuses on repurposing audio and video content.
B - Acknowledging and sitting with discomfort: Joanne Lockwood highlights the importance of acknowledging and sitting with discomfort for personal growth and change.
B - Men: According to Greg Wasserman, the lack of understanding in holding space for others is especially prominent among men.
A - Greg sharing his story: Joanne Lockwood expresses gratitude for Greg sharing his story at the end of the episode.
B - "Thank you for sharing": Greg Wasserman finds the phrase "thank you for sharing" powerful in acknowledging the speaker's feelings.
B - Acceptance and empowerment: According to the speakers, embracing broken pieces with gold represents acceptance and empowerment.
A - Seeking validation and personal acceptance: Joanne Lockwood discusses seeking validation and accepting oneself as a means of addressing fear and embracing broken pieces.
Summary:
The episode "Listening, not fixing" delves into the crucial need for vulnerability, understanding, and effective communication in the corporate world and leadership roles. Both Joanne Lockwood and Greg Wasserman highlight the importance of acknowledging discomfort and embracing broken pieces with acceptance and empowerment. Greg's emphasis on the lack of understanding in holding space for others, especially among men, adds to the importance of genuine listening and empathetic support. The episode ends with Joanne expressing gratitude for Greg sharing his story, highlighting the power of acknowledging and validating one's feelings in meaningful conversations.
Rhyme Scheme and Rhythm Podcast Poetry
Title: Unspoken Truths in Every Heart
In every tale, a tendency to fix,
But hear me out, just for a tick.
For in this world of push and shove,
Lies the beauty of simply, listening, with love.
The pressure’s on to always be strong,
But vulnerability's where new strength belongs.
Shed the shield, let emotions unfurl,
For beneath the surface, we're all one world.
In pursuit of perfection, so much we miss,
Sometimes the beauty is in the brokenness.
Validation, not solutions, often we seek,
To find the courage to be real, not meek.
The societal norms, they bind and restrict,
Yet in embracing our truths, comes the greatest self-lift.
In stoic silence, loneliness resides,
Let's break the barriers, where truth hides.
So, here's a plea, with sincerity,
Let empathy and understanding set you free.
Subscribe and share, to spread this art,
With thanks to Greg Wasserman for a fascinating podcast episode, from my heart.
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