Welcome to AwarePreneurs, the world's longest running social entrepreneur podcast. I'm Paul Zelizer, your host. If you could take a minute and hit subscribe and do a review on your favorite podcast app, it helps our guests help more social entrepreneurs and it costs you nothing. Thank you so much. Today our guest is Tim Shaler and our topic is how to build a 100% renewable data center. People have been talking a lot about data centers and Tim's thought about this a lot. Tim is the CEO of 639 Solar and 639Cloud. His 30 year career has focused on client retention, ESG investing, valuation work and investing in electricity and gas companies to help manage a solar and battery powered data center business.

Tim, welcome to AwarePreneurs.

Really great pleasure to be here. Thank you, Paul.

Yeah, we've had the opportunity to meet a couple times in person, which doesn't happen with all my guests. I get to have breakfast with him. So I have a pretty good idea of what we're talking about and this topic. Tim, about data centers. Like when we first talked about doing this episode, one of the things you mentioned is that Google and other key leaders in the space said what you're doing is impossible, that you can't do a 100% renewable data center. If we go back a little bit to the beginning of this idea, you have 30 years in a very, you know, accomplished career. Why did you decide to put all of your attention and your energy on that particular focus? A 100% renewable energy power data center?

Great question, Paul. I, I had some success in my finance career and when I met the founders of 639Solar and 639Club, it was obvious that they thought that they had come up with a very, very low cost power solution to run computers. And I basically said, look, I'll be your CFO if you can convince me to invest in your company. And I'm only going to invest in your company if I can put you through the rigor that I used to put companies through when I was managing money for very large money management companies. And they passed the test. And I said, look, we're going to figure out what the highest and best use of this electricity is. And it was owning data centers, which is where we are now. Part of their solution was specifically oriented towards providing the electricity that computers use, which is DC power.

And so the entire engineering was built around providing low cost power to computers.

Hey, you've got a bunch of patents and some really innovative ways. You've gone about that before we get into the solution. Right. If you're looking through a pitch deck, you always start with the problem. Help us understand the problem. Tim, why are data centers such a major energy challenge? And why have so many people struggled to solve it in some of the ways that we're going to talk about? You all have worked on going forward

well even before AI became an even larger use of electricity in data centers, just cloud compute, think of the music on your phone or the emails that you don't delete that cloud usage was becoming bigger and bigger percentage of the electricity that we use. Think of users like Facebook. You know, we all have lots of photos. Photo albums have become our Facebook.

Your food pictures. Right. They like hang out for a really long time in case they take them to review. Like my girlfriend, I'm thinking of her and her friends go for a run. They love to post a big group picture after they go for a run. Right. Those things hang out forever until we delete them if we ever do.

Right, exactly. So that was already being a large demand. And then another source of large demand is what we call the three letter agencies. So there's a reason, there's a lot of reasons why Northern Virginia is historically the number one place for data centers. The three letter agencies are a big reason for that. Others are because the infrastructure was built around Washington D.C. some of the major telecom players were there. And so there was infrastructure there as well as demand.

And so some of the problems that folks are experiencing in Northern Virginia has been tied to these now very, very large users. And they're not like a factory used to be where maybe the factory could have an agreement with the power company. That said, if it's super hot out, yeah, I can curtail my factory usage between 2 and 7pm when people are using the air conditioners. Data centers don't work that way. And so that load management has been a challenge. I think this the system is figuring that out, but it's been a challenge and simultaneous the rise of importance of renewable electricity, especially wind and solar, which are not forms of electricity that are available 24 hours a day without battery energy storage systems has created a simultaneous set of issues that power companies and users have had to work through.

Excellent. Let's talk a little bit about the solution. You zeroed in on energy for data centers and there were some very specific problems that other folks had looked at and said doing it 100% renewable isn't going to work. And you all said, hold on, actually it will. If. Tell us about that.

If sure. Well, just to be clear, there are other forms of 100% renewable electricity that we don't do that are totally viable, but you need to be somewhat close to a waterfall. So you could use hydro power. If you happen to be near hydro in a cold environment, then you need less cooling. So there are things that are 100% renewable. But what the large companies have said is that to use 100% wind or solar is. That's what's been especially challenging in the subject of these white papers. And we use 100% solar and battery.

So the solution that we've come up with is right, sizing the battery system and the solar system to get through a particular engineering challenge, which is at our latitude in North America, in southern New Mexico, we have the shortest day of the year on about December 21st every year when there's approximately 10 hours of daytime and approximately 14 hours of nighttime. And so you have this idea that 10 hours of daylight has to get you through a 24 hour day during that time of year. And you might get unlucky with the weather. If you get unlucky with the weather and it's a cloudy day, you might only get 30% power production during those 10 hours. And so the entire system has to be engineered for that potentially bad weather day on the shortest day of the year. Our system has maybe seven or eight really key differentiators. One is that we went with the low cost battery system. Ours didn't have to be low weight like in a car or a phone were in southern New Mexico.

And so land is relatively inexpensive. And so our battery system is relatively large, given the size of the battery system. And also we had a lot of innovations in how much electricity we can produce. So we think we generate about 60% more electricity vis a vis what other people produce at our latitude with all the innovations we have out in the solar field.

So you combined a number of things. One is you didn't need the most smallest batteries that maybe a lot of other folks were using. We'll talk about Lordsburg in a minute. But Lordsburg in New Mexico is pretty rural place. Land is cheap. So compared to many places in the US So you could afford to use batteries that were maybe bigger and heavier than they would be in a, in a car or a, you know, house or a, in an urban situation where you're using batteries, it wouldn't make sense to use the same kind of technology. And then you also innovated on the solar panel system and the way you were generating energy. I heard you toss out 60% more efficient than similar systems and similar latitudes and longitudes that year.

You know, if you took a different system and put in the exact same Lordsburg location, you're producing about 60% more energy. Combine that with the battery and the cost effectiveness of your battery solutions, that's basically how you got there. Is that fair to say?

Yeah. Yes, for the most part, yes. Yeah.

Cool.

You know, we think that the land might be worth a lot more now, but given our long term, we control the land. So.

And like give us a sense, like, what does that mean in terms of, I mean, it's feasible even in New Mexico, that you could have more than one day of cloudy weather or stormy weather. Right. Or a couple of days ago I was in Las Cruces, New Mexico, southern New Mexico. It was really crazy, dusty, like crazy. There were these windstorms. It was, you know, there was morning stay inside because there was so much dust and pollen. And I would imagine that solar production on a day like that is not 100%. I don't know what it is, but it was nowhere near 100%.

Like how, how long do you have to be prepared to store energy in a location like where you all are in Lordsburg?

Well, between the battery system and the backup generators, we plan for five days. We do assume that we're going to get some electricity production, so there's some engineering of how that five days is calculated. But we plan for five days. A lot of that is the recycled fuel on hand with our recycled diesel generators that we do occasionally have to use. Very, very less than 1% of the time. Mostly it's the engineering of how much battery we have. But then that's also how much fuel we have on hand for those recycled diesel generators.

Five days of kind of backup battery and planning for less than for suboptimal weather. And then less than 1% of the time you have these diesel generators that can come online. And even there you're thinking really carefully about not using them unless you need to. And then when you do need to using fuel that is as environmentally beneficial as is humanly possible.

That's what we've used so far. Yeah.

Yeah, Nice. So how long is 639 like been up and running? Tell us a little bit about, you know, from conception to where you are now. What kind of time horizon are we talking about?

Our first data center was up and running in December of 22nd, and our second data center was up and running in Dec of 23rd. So our second data center has been continuously operating for quite two and a half years yet. And that's where the products are housed that people can see at 639 Cloud.

Nice. So two different data centers, one about not quite four years and the other one's about two and a half years. And one of the questions that smart entrepreneurs are always going to ask them, they're going to be like, how do you get your startup capital? You get your idea and then you got to build the thing. Tell us a little bit like what was it like trying to raise for it? How long did that take you?

Well, it's a combination of some original seed money, some found, one of the founders put in some money and then his community, where he lives is a wealthy community. And so they put in the first amount and then we raised money in spring of 22 from a much wider circle. And then our largest investor is in that same community where the original founders were. And he came in in June of 24. And so since then it's been managing, you know, do we, is it more efficient to raise money from our current base of investors, you know, versus looking for outside investors? It's kind of a constant question.

So. So a friends and family round to kind of get you started and then a wider public raise that allowed you to build what's on the ground right now, these two data centers. So talk to us a little bit about there's 639Solar and 639Cloud. Talk to us about like why both businesses and how, you know, how do they interrelate? How would somebody who's thinking about this as both a business and then also as a social enterprise? Right. Why have both from the business case and then from the impact lines?

Well, from the business case, the system, the solar and battery system was built in such a way that it was designed to deliver the lowest cost power possible to a computer all the way through. And so the 639 solar side is focused on building these solar and battery systems and then selling those off to outside investors. And then we manage them and all the power gets sold to the data centers. So that's 639Solar. 639Cloud is the business that owns and operates the data centers. And we're competing to have people use our virtual machines instead of at other firms like cars.

Talk to us about like the balance, like are they fairly similar sized? Is one larger than the other as

enterprises, so far we've only built solar and battery systems for data centers that we own. We are very actively looking to do other things with the land that we control, maybe building data centers for outsiders. And so we're actively looking at, very, very actively looking at that now. So so far they've been fairly evenly matched. But we'll see where the strategic direction goes as the opportunities continue to present themselves.

One of the questions so a couple of questions come up when you start talking data centers. One that almost always comes up is energy usage. And you all have really cracked that knot. And I'm super excited to interview you to help share. And by the end of this interview, I hope our listeners will tell their friends and if, yeah, go take a look at 639 Cloud and consider, you know, how the energy is being sourced and what that means for the environment. So energy always comes up with data centers in a place like New Mexico and even in other places, one of the other things you hear people talk about is water, right? Like New Mexico, My son likes to say there's we are the state with the least surface water in the US It's a overall very arid, very rural state. And, you know, water challenges. There have literally been wars fought around water in the southwestern U.S.

and other places around the world. Water is getting really precious. How have you all thought about water and how do you talk to communities when they say, okay, great, thanks for being thoughtful about how you do energy. Talk to us about water.

So far, both systems that we've built and operated use very, very little water. The first one, practically speaking, uses none. I mean, you have some for washing hands and after people go to the washroom and things like that. But practically speaking, it's zero at the first one we built and the second one, the water we use inside what we call the data center, there's some things that we do for the daytime power that doesn't get stored and we use that power right away. But inside the data center main building, the only water we use is for humidity control. Because we're in southern New Mexico and it can be so arid, we need to make sure that the humidity remains above a certain level. And so we have two small humidifiers in there that keep the humidity going. So we buy water from a neighboring vineyard and get the water there.

And that's the primary reason we use water there. During the summertime, we do have to use some water for the units that we have for immediate use of electricity, but that's only during the peak of the summer. Most of the year we use very, very, very little water. And our long term goal is for that surplus power to be used Entirely on offerings at six or nine, in which case we would continue to have almost no water footprint except for that humidity use. Now, for folks looking at, you know, utilizing our land and all the benefits of, you know, utilizing the infrastructure that we've developed, they might have water uses, and there is water available down there, But I think everybody's very conscientious of where that water might come from. And so we are looking at brackish water deposits that are in the area, and we started to engage with the state of how do we map that and how do we get it to our site.

There's the energy question, there's the water question. You thought a lot about how to do that skillfully and in an environmentally conscious way, given that you all have cracked the code on how to do it in a 100% renewable way. You're being very thoughtful about water and using very, very little. I'm laughing because where I grew up in upstate New York, people used to put dehumidifiers in their basement because things would get really moldy. And you're all here in New Mexico, you have to put humidifiers in to get at least a little bit of water in the air. So, you know, it's hilarious. Some of the listeners might live in places. You know what I'm talking about.

Looking at you upstate New York, right? But given that you've cracked the code on two of the biggest concerns, my next guess, like, why isn't this approach more prevalent? Right. We have a lot of data centers that are using a tremendous amount of energy and not renewable and generating a lot of carbon in what they're doing. We have a lot of data centers that are taking a tremendous amount of water and their neighbors are really upset, rightfully so. You all have really worked hard to address that. My next question is, what about cost? Typically, sometimes when things are green or sustainable, sometimes they cost more. There's the green tax or the sustainability tax people talk about. Is that the case? Does it cost more money to do it in an environmentally friendly way or the costs relatively similar? Or are we at a place like, I know right now where when we're talking about energy, renewables, especially solar and wind, are the fastest, cheapest way to get new electrons to the grid. Like, you can just not even talk about the green benefits of doing renewable energy right now.

It's just the smartest economic way to do it, Right? So where is it on that continuum of a data center that's dirty, if we can use that word, is not renewable and is putting A lot of, you know, climate changing gases into the world. And your approach is it. Yeah. How does, how do they stack up from a cost perspective?

Well, I think we have to be honest about what we're comparing to. So for example, you know, solar and wind are only available, let's say 40 to 60% of the time. And then you need a battery and then if it's not at the same location like ours are, then you have to also transmit it and you might have to build this multi billion dollar transmission system. And if that transmission system is only used 40 or 60% of the time, then there's a lot of extra capital that would go into that. Now compare that to a gas plant that's running 24 hours a day and gets to use that transmission grid 24 hours a day. So you know, the question is, what are we comparing ourselves to? If we're comparing ourselves to a gas plant when gas prices are really high, like when Europe is hoarding gas in the run up to the Ukraine war, then solar is substantially less expensive. Even with all those things that considerations that we don't have to worry about because our solar is on site, we don't transmit it. It goes directly into the complex of the data center.

So I think if we're talking about solar on the grid, then you kind of have to look at, you know, where you are and what the other infrastructure is available. Sometimes other sources are less expensive than both. If you live in a place with hydro and the dam was built in the 1930s, then historically hydro can be really cheap. So at our location where it's behind the grid and we're getting, the distances are very, very small. We don't have those factors that might make others looking at solar more expensive. And a lot of this, you know, falls under the six patents that we have.

There's a great cost benefit to co locating everything. And that's one of your innovations.

Yes.

Am I understanding right that a lot of people who might think about a renewable approach to powering a data center, they see the economics and they're thinking of transmission lines and big infrastructure and they're like this doesn't pencil out. And what you all did said, well it does. If you're in again a more rural location with relatively affordable lands, co locate everything, then it starts to make a lot of sense.

And our, our location was chosen because it, it is a happy place where we had the communication infrastructure already. We have a number of fiber carriers that literally go right through our land. And also it's a really Great location for solar, a lot of it. It's probably pretty obvious to most people that there's a lot of sunshine and that's true. But it's also high altitude. There's also some other benefits that other places with a lot of solar don't have. Something that isn't widely appreciated is that solar panels don't work as well in the summer because they don't work as well in the heat and everybody has that. But where we are, the summers are not as intense as in other places because of other factors.

You know, there's a nice breeze, it's higher altitude. And so we looked for those things.

There's a running sort of competition between Arizona and New Mexico who has the high, who's the best state for solar. And Arizona likes to claim that they get the most solar rays, particularly in southern Arizona. And that's true. But they don't factor in the actual real world performance of solar panels in the way you're talking about Tim and New Mexico. If you look at actual real world performance throughout much of the state, because New Mexico and you know, even in southern New Mexico is higher elevation, the those panels tend to perform better. So New Mexico might just be number one. But regardless, Arizona and New Mexico are one and two and there's this friendly or not so friendly competition of who's actually number one. So anyway, it's kind of funny to sit in on those conversations.

So let's do this in a minute. I want to come back and hear a little bit about some of the economic impact on the communities that you're hosted in. I know that's a lot of conversation. People who live in the communities where data center are not always thrilled. There is a very public conversation going on in New Mexico about a very prominent data center in southern New Mexico that people are not happy about who live there, or many people are anyway. And some other factors like where do you see this going as the message about renewable data centers gets out there in the world? Before we do that, I just want to take a quick break and hear a word from our sponsor.

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So welcome back everybody. I'm here with Tim Shaler and we are talking about how to build a 100% renewable data center. And I think our listeners, Tim, they're starting to shake their head and saying, okay, I understand business model, two different businesses, the renewable energy data center focus and now the cloud. And one of the differentiators. I want to ask you more about that business before I do that, that conversation about the communities that data centers are located. And you you were shaking your head when I started to say there are some concerns, shall we say some very, very vocal concerns. Is that fair to say about some data center projects? In some there are.

There's a lot of reasons, depending on where specifically the data center is that, you know, you want to pick on. You know, I think the issues in Northern Virginia are not the ones same as in eastern Texas or western New Mexico. But there are a few concerns. Some regard water, some regard runouts on the grid, some regard using up all the cheap electricity from hydro. So it kind of depends where you're talking about. But yeah, there's a few concerns out there.

What would you want people to know about using the 639 model when you all are located in a community? Let's say we're at a town meeting and there's a conversation about bringing on another data center in a different community that doesn't know you. Right. Lordsburg, pretty small community. You've been there four or five years now. They have a sense of who you are. Right. Or at least some people would.

But.

But another community where pencils out the things that you're looking for are a fit. What would you want people at that town hall to know about how639 bringing a project into that community thinks about the community and the impact that you'd have on a community that tends to be rural. Probably it's really, really good. Solar might be an arid community. Pretty good chance. Like Lordsburg. Right. Water is probably an issue.

What would you want people in that room to know?

Well, you know, I think there's going to be a lot of different concerns in that room. Some people are going to be really concerned about water. Some people are going to be really concerned about the power grid. And some people are going to be concerned about economic impact. You know, during construction there's a very obvious economic impact. The tradespeople that come in, the training that happens on site with all the apprentices, you know, people get really pretty amazing on the job training with these projects and can move on to the next one or have an increase in skill. And a lot of the people who leave us go on to get jobs working on federal projects in the area. And then the people that remain full time, they learn how to drive a crane, for example, and that's a trade that's very transferable.

Or now they know how to work with solar or the basics of how the H VAC system works in the data center or the battery building. And so there is an upgrade in skills among our full time staff in addition to all the people that, you know, worked on these projects, either directly or subcontractors or the electricians. So the economic impact is substantial sense

of like either number of jobs or total amount that in the kind of building phase compared and then in the ongoing phase, like talk about that. Any qualifiers, any data about that economic impact?

Our data center is relatively small because we started small and wanted to make sure we got our footing. So, you know, the next ones will probably be much, much larger. But at Node 2 we had about 125 people who were working six months and getting paid very, very well, substantially over the prevailing wage in the area. And the electricians and the apprentices were making very, very good money. And so I think that's, you know, the sense of scale, especially where we are. Most of the people came from a town about 40 miles away called Deming, which is much larger than the closest town. A few people came from there in Silver City, but most people came from Deming. And I think it had a substantial impact during that time.

And then the term ongoing jobs, once

it's built, well, you know, the goal is always to keep building and so hopefully the, the workforce will keep growing. The number of people needed at each data center is quite small, relatively speaking, but they are, you know, well paid professionals who are network engineers, etc. So one of our guys is from Silver City and he's great and he just happened to live there and we met him socially, so it's great having him on board. And then you asked about what about the concerns regarding impact on the grid or impact on water. I think we could show how we've been a good steward of those things so far, I think that demonstrates some things. And even if somebody comes in and wants to work with local power providers to do something much bigger, I think our reputation in the area would really help that. And if we were to go to a new area again, I think we would stand on the reputation of how we've managed things so far. And even if we want to do something much larger, I think, you know, I think we've demonstrated that we would be thoughtful about it.

Beautiful. Talk to me a little bit about scaling strategies. Is and let's stay with 639 Solar for in the data center part for a minute. Is the strategy more to build out the current location? It sounds like you have more availability, more capacity where you currently are. Is that the primary focus or is other sites, you know, or are they about even?

Well, I'll joke and say yes. And that answer seriously. So currently we're only using about 300 acres on plot of land that is 10,000 acres that we control. Now we do have some people interested in utilizing that at least a subsection of that remaining 9,700 acres for themselves. You know, we've developed, we've brought hard fiber to our site. So now there's hard fiber that's ready for somebody to use. We happen to be in an area that has amazing infrastructure for both electricity and gas, which is interesting to people. Water is available from the local community.

And like I said, there might even be brackish water that we might be able to do something with. And where we are, the brackish water isn't being used for anything. It's just sitting down there. So if we could utilize the brackish water that might be really interesting. And so we do have some people really interested in maybe using that. And so we are getting quite a bit of interest in that land that we have. I think everybody recognizes that, you know, one of the assets of that land is that we have been the one stewarding it and we'd be managing relationships, etc. So we'll see how those go.

Beautiful. So in other words, there's a confluence of things. When you say hard fiber that means fast Internet, right?

Right.

And these other intersections of the grid and the water availability, there's some really attractive. And also the overall price of land in that part of the country is again not typical in the U.S. right.

So those that whole we'll see where the land what it's worth. Now like I said, given the infrastructure that we've developed, it might be much more valuable now, and we think it probably is, but we'll see how those

compared to building miles and miles and miles of transmission lines and some of the other infrastructure that often goes to data centers. You know, if you're listening to this and you know somebody who's thinking of a data center, call Tim, talk to him. He's got, he might have something that's interesting to you. Let's go to the 639 cloud side of things because I find this fascinating. The data center is what's sexy. We wanted to put that front and center in the titles because just so many people are talking about it right now. And I think people have a pretty good sense. Our listeners talk to us about the 639 cloud of things.

Again, the scale, like did that, when did that start? Give us just some of the, like, foundations of the business. If I'm trying to understand it as an entrepreneur, not just a social entrepreneur, help me understand the entrepreneur side of 639Cloud.

Well, fundamentally, we're trying to compete in the business that DevOps people are utilizing, which is if I'm a DevOps person, I don't necessarily want to own my own computer to be writing my code. And so these terminologies are sometimes called infrastructure as a service. So you're basically renting your compute by the hour. And that's the business we compete in at 639 cloud. And so what we offer are virtual machines, as it's called. And importantly, we offer dedicated virtual machines. So for as long as you're using that virtual machine, you're the only one on it that matters. Because at other services, you can have the problem of quote, unquote, noisy neighbors.

But that is obviated by using what we call dedicated virtual machines. And we also offer what's called bare metal, where you're actually just renting by the month your own machine in our data center. And so that's where we can be that infrastructure as a service for DevOps

people and talk to us about the growth there. When did it start and what kind of like if we were to chart out the lines of the growth of 639Cloud, what that, what that graph look like?

Well, you know, we're really excited. We're out there talking to DevOps people all the time, really. We're finding that we're generating a lot of interest and a lot of people visiting our website, 639Cloud website. And so it's been fun to watch. You know, we want to fill out node 2 as soon as we can. And as soon as we fill out node 2 then we want to just, you know, we'll call node 3 which is why the previous answer was yes. So we're very interested to keep talking to anybody who's wanting to use our land if it's higher and faster use. But we'll also keep building more data centers for at least the plan is currently to keep building more data centers to keep offering more services at 639Cloud.

And just to be explicit, 639Cloud is powered by. By the renewable energy at 639 Solar.

Yes. To say absolutely yes. They're all. Well there's a legal separation that we all know kind of chalk in the sand but from satellite photo they're in the same location.

So if you're listening to this listener and you need cloud service and you care about our planet and renewable the everything you heard Tim talk about about on the 639 solar side of thing, that's what's powering this compute compared to. I mean I don't know throw out, throw out a couple big names I'm thinking of who, who would, who would a DevOps person typically. What would be some of the biggest names in that sector?

Well, Azure and AWS are the biggest.

AWS is the first thing I was.

And you know we, we compete on the low end. Obviously they have a lot more that they offer but a DevOps person, especially in a test environment cares about the environment. We would be really excited to have them use us and then we'll keep offering more services as we develop.

So fast forward five years, Tim, what does 639 cloud look like? What does 639 solar look like with the planning that you're doing now?

Well, we kind of have three major initiatives. You know we're going to monetize the land in the way that makes the most sense. We're totally willing to talk to people about our IP portfolio if somebody else wants to utilize it. And also we're going to keep building more nodes so that we can keep offering more services at 639Cloud. So how those three kind of interrelate over time? You know, time will tell but know we hope to be much bigger and maintain our sustainability.

What would you say having you know, 30 plus years of work and now really leaning into this renewable data center equation that's just so hot right now. The, the, the amount of energy and money going into AI and data centers is the attention economy. The f this, the amount of investment I've heard people say that AI is propping up the economy. The amount of startups and investment going on in AI is massive right now. And you're, you're bringing a renewable lens right into one of the most robust parts of the economic conversation on planet Earth. Right. Like what would you want sitting in that seat with your experience and this very exciting two companies that are interrelated, what do you want people to know about what you're seeing right here, right now? One of the robust, most robust economic conversations on the planet, usually with renewable not being front and center.

Right. I would say that the solutions that we offer on how to power a data center we would suggest really should be used by everybody. And I'm not saying that only as a self interested economic actor. Even though that is present. We're very proud of our patents and if somebody wants to license them and do a solar powered data center, then we would welcome that. I would say the idea of how we can engineer this to make sure we have the redundancy and the level of availability that data centers demand is an engineering question. And we think we've cracked that nut. And you know, we would welcome conversations with anybody that wants to see how we did it.

Awesome. Tim, I could hang out with you all day and you're busy. Our listeners are busy. As we start to wind down. If there was anything you were hoping to cover on either side, either the 639Solar or the 639Cloud that we haven't talked about yet, what would that be?

I do think we covered the most important thing which is, you know, these white papers are out there saying, you know, this looks like it's an impossible feat and we've been doing this. Like I said, our second data center has been continuously operating for almost two and a half years now. And we are proud of that. And you know, we really want the world to know what's been accomplished so that, you know, one of our advisors, very early on one of our data center advisors said, you know, the data center industry is very cutting edge. They're willing to use any new technology as long as the technology is at least 10 years old. And it's a funny quip and I wasn't sure I believed it when I first started, but now I believe it, you know, and you know, what we've been doing, we've been doing for four years. So maybe we can move that from 10 years to four years and get some people to utilize either us at 639 Cloud directly or if our competitors want to license us then what we've done so that they could build data centers like we have. We're very open to those conversations.

And you know, we, we did this not only because it was environmentally friendly but also because it was the best engineering solution. So you know, we think we have something really special and we're excited to talk about it and share it.

Tim, if somebody wants to find out more about 639Solar, 639Cloud wants to talk to you about licensing your IP, wants to say hey, I want to put metal, I want to build a data center with you. What are some of the best ways to get a hold of you and where should interested people go depending on which part they're interested in.

Thank you. Well, I get all the inquiries that come in from both websites 639Solar or 639Cloud the but my email address is tim639Solar.com so I would welcome any communication.

Great. I will make sure that all of those are in links. Tim, thank you so much for being on the show and for the work you do. Like I said, this is such an important and impactful conversation. Really appreciate what you do and how you do it.

It's really nice seeing you.

So listeners, please if you know someone that would like to learn more about how to do data centers and compute in a renewable way, I know you know somebody who's building something. Come on listeners, I know who you are so please share this episode. It costs you nothing to do so it can have a huge impact and if you are ready need some help for your renewable or impact business, please take a look at my services@paul zelizer.com until next time, please keep working for positive impact, letting your values guide your business. Sam.