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How to Grow Your Newsletter in 2025 feat. Flodesk CEO Martha Bitar
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Blaine
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Blaine
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Martha Bitar
Blaine hosts Flodesk CEO Martha Bitar to explore how she grew an 8-figure email marketing platform. They discuss modern email marketing challenges, design importance, list building tactics, and lead magnet strategies to help creators stand out and grow their newsletters effectively in 2025.
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Highlights
“Martha built Flodesk while working full time at Honeybook and now leads a remote first company that serves creators and companies worldwide.”
“Building a Business While Working Full Time: "Martha built Flodesk while working full time at Honeybook and now leads a remote first company that serves creators and companies worldwide.”
“The Motivation Behind Creating Flodesk "We started it because even though I'm sure you've heard that the email marketing space is super noisy and there are a lot of solutions, we kept hearing from content creators that none of the solutions were actually solving the modern day pains.”
“Solving Modern Day Pains in Email Marketing Quote: "we kept hearing from content creators that none of the solutions were actually solving the modern day pains.”
“The Evolution of Email Marketing Platforms: "And then we realized that they, these platforms were created like more than 20 years ago and they solved problems that were problems in a very different world, right, Than the world we live in.”
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Full transcript
Welcome to today's episode and workshop of uploading. Today we are joined by Martha Batar, the CEO of Flodesk, an email marketing platform that has grown to a 8 figure ARR business very quickly. Martha built Flodesk while working full time at Honeybook and now leads a remote first company that serves creators and companies worldwide. In today's workshop we're going to cover how Martha grew Flow Desk from just a small platform into the big business that it is today. While managing a full time role, we're going to cover the power of email marketing for creators and how to get started. We're going to cover the best ways to grow your business through email and much, much more. So I guess without any further ado, Martha, I'll let you kick us off. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your background and how you got it started, how you got started building Flodesk.
Yeah, okay, sounds good. Hi everyone and thanks for sharing what y'all do. If you, if you want to drop more in the chat just so that we know what you're doing, what you're working on every day, I think that would be fantastic. And yeah, so I created Flodesk. I'm one of the co founders, we have three each and Flodesk is an email marketing platform that helps you design emails people love to get. And we started it because even though I'm sure you've heard that the email marketing space is super noisy and there are a lot of solutions, we kept hearing from content creators that none of the solutions were actually solving the modern day pains. And we had a lot of friends, Rebecca, my co founder, Trang, my co founder and I, and we had a lot of friends in the creative space of Content creators that were completely crushing it on social media. They had millions of followers, like super high engagement, they were actually making money.
But then the algorithm, y'all know by now it's super tricky, it's rented space, right? So they knew that they needed email marketing but none of the platforms felt right. And initially we said well, why don't we help you use mailchimp, right? Because it exists, it's there, we can probably very easily solve your pain. So then I remember just scheduling coffee chats with, with some of these creators and building a design for them that they could just go into the HTML next week and like change some things and iterate from there and like next week without like a fault. Every single time they say, you know what, I need help again, I can't do these. So then Rebecca and I were like what, what is happening, right? Like why? Why is this truly not working? And then we realized that they, these platforms were created like more than 20 years ago and they solved problems that were problems in a very different world, right, Than the world we live in. So if you think about it, 20 years ago, just a single act of delivering an email to the inbox was a win, right? Because it was a hardware problem and a software problem. And today all of that is kind of commodity, it's been solved. And the modern day entrepreneur has very different needs.
For example brand, right? Like there's a lot of noise, attention spans are super short. So every single email, it can't just hit the inbox, it has to stand out, it has to engage from the beginning. It has to be hyper optimized for conversion. And text based without any of your brand just doesn't cut it anymore, right? And not just for solopreneurs. We actually we looked at a case study with Stripe. Stripe is a massive company, right? I think it's the largest private company in the world and they ab tested a text based email and one that was actually optimize for conversion using their own brand. And the on brand design based email increased conversion by 21%. So whether you're a very small business or a large business, like design is not a luxury anymore.
And that's what we set out to fix, right? For example, we're the only platform that lets you use custom fonts. If you work with a designer and you have your brand, and you have your brand font that you use on your website, right? On your social media posts like designs everywhere and you cannot use it on your email, something just doesn't click there, right? It just, it tells you this, this is not really solving the modern problem. It makes you think as well. Like if you're, if you're going to rent an office, but the office is going to have their brand on it, it just makes no sense.
Right?
Branding is just part of the modern business. So that's what we set out to build and we didn't expect it to grow so fast. Um, we launched and immediately the viral Twitter and the email started getting us exponential viewers and, and trials and wins. And now we're at 30 million AR, completely bootstrapped and here we are.
That's such an awesome story to, to see how everything grew so fast. And, and I think the interesting thing about email is it's like one of those things where maybe if you were looking at it from the outside in, you wouldn't fix the. Think there's like such a big problem and a platform to be solved there when it already seemed like the problem was solved. But you guys kind of found a niche that you were able to clip, clip onto and then build from there. So let's kind of go in on email and design. You were mentioning a couple things. So you were mentioning conversion, you were mentioning design, you were mentioning copy. I know today, like, if I open up my inbox, it's an absolute zoo, right? Like, I'm getting email promotions left and right.
Like, what does it take to stand out in email? Like, from what you've seen, the data that you guys have seen, the creators that you've worked with, like, let's go into each one of these different facets of like, what does it take to create a great email?
Yeah. Sound good? So it's actually really easy. And the beauty about email marketing is that it's been around for forever. So it's not. And the algorithm isn't changing. Like, it's a tried and tested channel. So you can learn it pretty quickly. And there are a lot of free resources out there.
I'd say number one is building a list, right? If you're going to send an email, you have to send it to someone. So building a list as soon as possible is game changing. In fact, we're seeing that a lot of businesses now start their business and before they even have a website, actually a lot of them just skip the website altogether. They just create an email list, right? They just create a form. So for example, you can go into flodesk or pretty much every platform has these. Create a form that you publish to the web. You don't need a website to host it. You make it on brand and then you share it.
You can share it in your link in bio. You can just send it to people that were originally maybe in your manual list. If you have a physical business, you can put it on an ipod and people can either scan the code or just sign up there essentially everywhere. And then you start building a list. Now, one of the best ways to grow a list is to add value. So this is called the freebie. And I'm sure you see seen it. Instead of just saying, hey, join my newsletter so I can share content with you, give something of value.
Look at the email address as currency. So you're getting paid with email in exchange for something. So my favorite trick for figuring out what the freebie should be is thinking, what are your customers or audience typically asking you? What are the top questions that they have for you? And then you use that. You create the answers, maybe turn it into a nice PDF. So it's a downloadable or even just an email that says, here are my top five, like tips or tricks or answers. Right.
And that's your freebie.
So now your form, instead of just saying, hey, join so that you can hear news first. It has value to add. And it can be something like, Download my top 5 traits in real estate or wellness.
Right.
Like the, the space that you are in. So that's, that's number one. Any questions from you or the audience and building a list before we move into emails?
Yeah, I mean, I, I think that's a, that's a great point in terms of like, leading with value. I mean, I, I would ask, you know, for the audience, like, while we're here, we're talking about flow desk, we're talking about cast magic. If you guys want to drop in your top questions there, I think that's a really great framework to start. It's almost like sometimes when you think about, you know, building a landing page, you might think about, okay, what are the FAQs that I want to answer? And you like, lead with that to like build out your landing page. And what you're saying is it's a similar sort of strategy when you're thinking about building your list or creating content. You're creating a lead magnet that's leading with value, that's ask, that's answering the questions before people even knew they had those questions. So I really like that as a framework. And then, you know, what do you see working just to kind of double click on this? Do you, do you see it as sort of the content that you are pushing in your email, delivering value or are you like seeing people build these lists through, you know, external lead magnets? Like you were saying, you take the time you create an external lead magnet like a PDF or an industry breakdown or something like that.
I know, I see them all the time on LinkedIn where people create a link magnet and then be like comment like this and I'll DM you. Like what are you seeing in terms of building that list rapidly? Because that's a question that we get a lot is like, okay, you know, I know I should be on email. I've got the emails of the people that I've, you know, are in my community. But I want to grow this list. I want to, I want to do even more. So, you know, what are the best ways, assuming that you're leading with value, what are the best ways to, to, to grow really fast?
Yeah, my favorite trend that I've seen lately is not having one lead magnet but having several ones and posting that as your link in bio. So for example, we have influence link in bio forms so you can have your general subscriber area at the very top and then you can have several different links that give you that. It's essentially like a choose your own adventure type of experience. So maybe you have your subscribe to my newsletter but then right immediately after download my digital guide and then immediately after join my course. Right. So you have different types of lead magnets that they can essentially opt into. And this is my by far favorite tactic because it allows you to segment from the beginning. And that's another really key point of building a strong engaged list is understanding in a way de anonymizing the subscriber as early as possible so that you can continue to serve hyper relevant content only.
And then once you have that subscriber list hyper segmented. So for example, maybe this is, these are the people who are interested in my course, these are the people who wanted the digital guide. Then you can also cross promote, right? You can send an email to the people that are interested in the course and say, hey, by the way, I noticed that you haven't downloaded my digital guide. Here's like a freebie for you just because you're on my list and it allows you to create more complex, I would say strategies from there.
Awesome. And let's, let's continue with this sort of stuff. So assuming that we've kind of got emails, one thing that you had mentioned was segmentation and data. Not to get like too technical, but maybe could you explain a little bit more about like what simple segmentation is when it comes to email lists and like what your strategy is there. So are you basically saying you're creating specific emails just for different segments of your audience or is it just kind of having that knowledge to understand what's, what's appealing to people from a data perspective?
I want to say it's either and it's both.
Right.
I think the, the reality is that we live in a world where the solopreneur is no longer focused on one thing, right? You start by creating a photography business, right? And then you become really good at it and other people want to learn from you. So now you're a photographer and you're a coach, right? And you start stepping into the educator space and you have digital downloads. But then a lot of people really want to learn from you. So you create a course, right? And then you create a course and people really want a mastermind or an offline retreat and also a new event like planner, right? It just, and, and we can't help it, right? Because it really, it's become that easy to start a business. And if you have a very strong connection to your audience and you get that, that frequent feedback, then you see opportunities and if you can fix them, if you can offer more than you're going to, right? So we call that like the octopus. But we're like, we're solopreneurs and we're also kind of all over the place in the best possible way. I think this reminds me also of the students that can't decide on their favorite course or in a major, right. Because they really are good at everything and we're seeing that a lot with our customers, with the solopreneur space.
So I think this is exactly where segmenting comes in. It's not the typical idea of segmenting the way that it worked in retail where I'm going to segment you because you're interested in a blue top versus jeans, right? Like this is specifically like what parts of my business or my offering is this person interested in? And that also helps you cross sell and upsell and grow your business, right? I also think that to answer your question on, is this specifically so you can create hyper relevant content for that segment only? It doesn't have to be. I think it helps you understand where people are living. Like if you have a lot of people interested in the course, for example, then maybe you're going to start focusing some of the content towards that large majority but still include some like, hey, sessions are now open for photography or, or, or depending right? On, on the data that you're seeing is just a really easy and fast way to get a lot of data about the people that are joining your list. You can know how to make it hyper relevant. And then the strongest piece is automations. So once you start figuring out how to send, like grow a list, send an email, the very next natural step is workflow automations. So for example, if somebody opts into your digital course or digital download freebie, right, the lead magnet, then a really smart thing to do there is to create an entire workflow that gets triggered as soon as somebody opts in to download a digital guide.
Then without you having to do any extra work, truly they're going to start receiving that drip campaign maybe once a week where you share more tips and tricks and you end up staying top of mind. But the idea is to turn these into, I don't want to say passive income, but I mean if you want to, you could. But just as passive a channel as you can so that you always look like you're on top of mind with the workflows, right? You always look like you're on, but you're not really working that hard on the automation piece. And then anything that's not evergreen, that's your peak. I would say campaign content can be done live through a one off email.
Exactly. And I think your point about the, the octopus and segmentation is so spot on, especially in the solopreneur world. I think this, I think you hit something that resonates with I'm sure a ton of people here, even from the comments that I see in here and even ourselves. I mean the reason we even built Fast Magic was because I had a podcast about E commerce and then I needed to solve my problem. So I built an AI tool that could like solve that problem. And then I'm ending, ending up in SaaS in the content space, building a new podcast out of this. So like, you know, obviously we, those aren't even segmented list, those are two completely different lists because there is like zero overlap in terms of audience. But I think it's just something you see in the solopreneur world, right? It's like just by working, just by working on projects, you start putting together these businesses that are like tangentially related, but they are not.
Like if you look from the outside you'd be like, how are those two things related? So really cool. And my next question, Martha, is about maybe if you could just paint a picture of the landscape. I know you mentioned something like mailchimp. We've Got flow desk. Could you just talk about like how Flodesk sits in between all the different email stacks even for us at castmagic, right. Like I have a different email service that I use for our product emails where I have like events that are coming in from like user actions in our app app versus like our newsletter content which is, you know, doesn't require that level of, of information. But if you could just paint a picture of the, the email landscape, I think that would be really helpful for, for everyone to just understand how, what the services look like.
Yeah, sure thing. So like I said, most, most of the email tools that are out there, if not truly like all were created 15, 20 years ago.
Right.
So the audience for email marketing was different, the problems were, were different. So they're focused a lot on the technical aspect, almost built for the technical user as well. So for example, if you come in and you start a trial of mailchimp, you kind of have to know where to go to make it work for you. If you want to build something that's really on brand, you need to work with a designer, a developer to work on the HTML. Right. So I think the difference is that we're kind of in a different era. VC software has been evolving away from the ecosystem need to build everything in HTML towards low code, no code tools. So I'd say that's probably number one where we're different.
We're also focused on solving different problems, right? Like design not really on the radar of the older email marketing tools. For us, design is key. It's not just about making your email look beautiful and unbrand. It's if it doesn't look beautiful and unbrand, it doesn't convert.
Right.
You're talking about an 8 second second attention span. They open the email right. And you have to grab their attention right that second. So whether it's like nurture or the, the actual ask of Buy now writer take action, you just, you need to understand that each different ask has a different kind of like ideal flow and design. We're hyper focused on that piece. I, I would say this is not something that we, we built it to be very simple and easy to use and we didn't expect this type of feedback. But one thing that we hear a lot is that it's very fun. So we, we have a lot of customers that go out of their way and they tell us, oh my gosh, like this is the first time that I'm having a lot of fun with my email marketing.
It feels like social media. It's it's making me feel very creative. So that's great. And I would say that's probably a big differentiator. But ultimately I think it's, it's really not about us versus what else is out there. I think it's about using email marketing versus not using email marketing. Right? Like go start a trial, everyone has them figure out which is the platform that you love the most and then, and then stick to it. There are a lot of platforms that have free plans.
I think the, the risk is not using it because you saw what happened with TikTok, right? It can really disappear overnight and you're really on rented space. You don't own your own, your audience. So over all of the effort that you put into building that followership and engagement can really go away. Where if you're building that on social media, but you're also saying, hey, by the way, join my newsletter. That's the list that you own. You're not platform dependent, right. Even if we at some point make a mistake and become like a dinosaur as well and you want to jump ship and go to another platform, you can just download and export your entire subscriber list and go use another platform. So I really, I believe that that's a win.
That's a true win.
No, I totally agree with that and especially what you were saying about like the design. You've got eight seconds to capture someone's attention, maybe even less honestly. But I'd love to. Let's talk about like, let's get tactical in terms of like, you know, just some information about email that I've been curious about and that I'm sure a bunch of people listening in are as well. First, I want to talk about subject lines, right? What goes in, like, what goes into a good subject line. And tell me about like the importance of open rate, like, and how are those related?
Yeah, so this is probably one of the pieces that's really simple. Once, once it clicks. Your open rate is entirely dependent on your subject line, right. Your content only like the conversion only matters once they've opened it. Really what gets someone to open your email is a subject line with one exception and it is landing in spam. So this is important if your content has a lot and sometimes it's very innocent words. Like one time our head of marketing sentinel that had in the content align some fun for your Wednesday evening and the spam bots thought that this was like R rated material and send it to spam boxes.
Right.
So sometimes it's very really unintentionally that you end up in spam. But other than controlling for that, your subject line is really what's going to drive your open race. And what's hot for subject lines, it really depends on your audience. Right. Like for us, we test internally and we see that adding an emoji increases our open rates. But I can see a world in which maybe if you're in the legal space, right. And you're sending pretty serious emails, it might not work.
Right.
It really depends on your audience. I would say experimentation is a way to go because it really changes. It even changes by season.
Right.
Like what people want in winter is very different than what they want in the summer. And there is no right answer. Do not go and copy what is working for somebody else. Just like experiment with your own ideas and then figure out what works best for your audience and then double down in that.
Awesome. And then what about. What about preview lines and preview headers? I know that's something in our newsletter that we think about a lot.
Yeah. So preview lines should be the hook. I think a lot of people think of the subject line as a hook, but subject line should be very clear, like as clear as possible so that people understand why they should open your email. And then preview line is the hook. So for example, if you're talking about, I don't know, a sale. Right. Um, so open now to get our biggest sale. And then your preview line should be like, you will not believe these numbers.
Right. This is a. Almost like not necessarily bait and switch. I don't think that's ever really something I would recommend, but kind of close to really like make it impossible for. For people not to open it. Use the FOMO factor.
Right.
I think unless. Unless it's not content email and it's something more of a serious email than you really want to make it hyper clear. But I would say preview line is a hook. Don't use subject lines as the hook because then it kind of annoys people.
Right.
If. If your subject line is. Is borderline baity.
Right.
It's. It's not fair. Like we have a lot of emails in our inbox.
Yeah, exactly. And it gets a little bit annoying. And one thing that, you know, we always do when we test our emails is, you know, sometimes we'll a b. Test different subject lines and preview lines. But also, um, you know, I love getting, I love getting sent test emails so I can like just see them on my phone. Because sometimes when you're writing an email versus what it's going to look like when it lands in someone's inbox or like two totally different things. So, you know, we always have fun and sometimes you need to move words around. But I think it's a really good point on the preview line, it's like you've got more real estate there to like draw intrigue and get the click.
And your goal for the, the subject and the preview line is to get them to open because if they don't open the email, then you know, they don't see all the hard work that you actually put into the meat of the content. So I think that's spot on. My next, my next question about that open open rates and everything is, you know, why does open rate matter? Does it affect email deliverability? Like, is it a vanity metric? Like, should you care about what your open rate is? Like, you know, how does open rate matter? And, and yeah, what are your thoughts on it?
Yeah, I mean it matters because it's your funnel, right? The higher the open rate, the more people have even the chance to click and engage. So it also tells you that people are engaged. So it's validation that the content that you're putting out there is getting well received. But just for math, right, if you're sending an email to 100 people and 50 open, then the people that could potentially click are max 50, right? Like that lowers your funnel by a lot. So if you maximize that first funnel stage, then you also maximize the potential people that can click. I think it's, it's also important to understand the different aspects that influence open rate versus click rate because then you can experiment. For example, if you know that subject line and we think of preview as part of a subject line, but subject line and preview text are what's directly influencing open rates then and your open rate has been dropping, then you know that that's potentially where you should be experimenting, right? Versus if your click rate is dropping, then you know that you probably need to hyper optimize your content. And on the click rate piece as well, I think simple and clear is truly like what converts.
I'm not kidding. It's almost true. Like across the board almost every, every single time. If you create a really long button that says this is your Last chance to XYZ vs buy now act like join now the joy now the buy now. Like a simple action oriented clean clear buttons always work, which is almost counterintuitive because people feel like they need to, you know, like shooter code it or be more tactful. They don't want to come across as super Salesy. But again, back to the attention span. If you only have a couple of seconds, you want to make it super clear what is it specifically that you're asking for? What is the action that I want you to take?
Awesome. And then what about. Because I know you had mentioned spam, in some ways you could get caught up in spam. Is there a link between, you know, open rates and deliverability and spam? Is it like better just inherently to have a higher open rate or is it just more about your funnel?
So I think it used to be, it's changing a lot. So it used to be a lot about the open rate and also the content and that's been changing more towards domain reputation. So for example, right now one of the best things that you can do to increase deliverability is to not send from a free mail. And in fact Gmail, Yahoo, right, like the inbox providers in February released a change where if you're sending from a free mail and a free mail is like martha mail.com right versus marthaotesk.com so if I'm sending from a free mail, I can only send to 5,000 recipients daily. Daily. And that immediately like just decreases your IP and your sender reputation. If you start working to not just send from your own domain but also like verify your your domain authenticated with a dkim right on authentication, then it increases your deliverability. Then one of the best things you can do after that is encourage people to reply.
So the beauty about email is that even though you're sending one to many people can just literally reply and they have direct access to you into your inbox. And I think that's gorgeous. That's just like, it's so human, right? And, and not very many people use it. But if you send a campaign and you say by the way, like, do you like these Reply to me or here, here's the question I have for you. Reply and let me know your answer. Especially when you're getting started, that's one of the best things that you can do because as soon as people start replying to you that just like boost your reputation and your points, increasing your deliverability because it makes you come across like a real sender, right to Gmail and Yahoo and the likes.
So do you have any? I. It's so true and I love it because like we have a lot of like email automations that go off and like I get them all. And I always joke sometimes that my, my email inbox is a total shit show, but I, it's actually kind of fun because like I'll have people respond to me and be like, this is just an automated thing and I'll, I, I actually get them and I'll respond to them and we'll have like a conversation. But do you have any tips to elicit responses? Because like you were saying, it's a good thing when people do respond. So are there any tips you'd have to like elicit responses from emails?
Yeah. Awesome. Literally just say like reply to me. Even if you have, if you, if you send your first email and say, hey, I'm trying this new thing, here's what I'm doing. This is my newsletter.
Right.
Like and have a button that's like very clear. Right. One call to action and it says reply to me.
Right.
And that button can go to the mail too. Or just like say it in big text reply to me then that typically works. If you try more. Yeah, tactful modes, it might not work as well. Like I said for call to action, keep it simple, Keep it simple, keep it clear.
Yes, I love that. Okay, moving forward. So I think we've covered a lot on that side of things. We've covered segmentation, we've covered email deliverability, how to get opens. Now let's actually get into the content stuff. So now let's assume that someone's like actually opened our email. Why don't you tell us about like the. So you mentioned for Flow desk.
One of the reasons that you thought there, that you've, you guys have seen so much success, so much success is because you made it easy for people to create beautiful emails. So what does your email builder look like? How does that differ from other platforms? And you know, once you've got like an email design that you like, how do you create an email that you know elicits the response that you're, you're looking for as a business owner?
Yes, Great question. So you can always start from scratch, right? If you already know how to create an email that's optimized for conversion, you can start from scratch and just use some of the layouts that we have. If not, we, we have layouts and templates that are already hyper optimized for these. We actually have a patent granted or layout technology. It's so that you can add custom fonts so that you can make sure that it relays the same across devices or inboxes.
Right.
And, and then the beauty of that is that it's already hyper optimized for the goal that you are trying to achieve. So email is really there's, there's an art and there's also a science, right? It's, it's a, there's, there's a flow. It's like a, you know, like you just continue reading. It's very, in a way similar to how we read social media or on mobile. So I think this is also why even though every year somebody says email is going away, email is dead, it's just like it stays, it remains because it's, it's still the way that we organically consume content. So, but there's, there's a science, right? So you want to have the right hierarchy, you want to have the right logo presence not just for the inboxes so that they can recognize you as a true brand, but also so that you're re establishing that trust, right? And, and then the story has to flow. So for example, we've, we found that one thing that works really well is having your logo at the very top. Then having a very compelling image that's high quality, optimized for deliverability, right? And then a call to action.
This, this way you can just right from the beginning, get to the point, get to the call to action. And then having a text paragraph because this increases your text to image ratio, right? And then having a handwritten signature at the bottom because it makes it very human. So you're right. Even though it is an automation, right? Like any chance that you, that you can have to come across as human, it really, it makes a difference when it comes to content and design. So that's a typical flow. I think within there you can hyper customize it to what content you need. So, so there's function and then there's style. So function wise, maybe if you have a roundup of some of your favorite things, then you'll have like a roundup template, right? And it kind of has that like flip image and button, button and image or image and button layout, right.
If you have, if you have a sale, then you might want to use a layout that's specifically designed and optimized for sale. The Buy now for example we have like gifs that are going around the product, let's say like Buy now or Sale and it just catches your attention right away because you haven't seen movement like that in email, right? Like imagine you open it and you have your digital guide download, right? And there's this like sale font right in your own brand that's kind of going around and moving or like an arrow pointing. It's, it's really cool. I think it's also really hard to build these and customize it for every single campaign. It's just so time consuming. So if you can start from a template and then optimize it to your brand, then that's always easier. And then if you have, if you're more like running like a general sale and you want to send people to your shop, then you probably want to use a layout that has just like a collection of products. So the idea is, be clear with your goal.
What is it ultimately that you want to achieve? Try to add your button, your call to action as soon as possible so that people understand what you're asking and then follow with some of that story. And it has to be a story.
Right.
I think that's another thing that's changed. Twenty years ago, people was expecting email to be more informational and now people want the story. They want to know what's like, who you are. And people like to purchase and engage with people. Right. Not with brands really. So I think that's another thing that the solopreneur segment has going. And, and yeah, an email is one of the best channels.
Yeah. And one of the things that is just fun for me is like on, on this, this workshop, we'll do all sort of workshops with different sort of content creators. And I immediately see like, how connected all the different forms of creating content are. So for example, like, I've had short, short form creators who come on and like, they will go super viral in creating these like, you know, short reels that are like a minute long. And it's not just like a reel. They have a whole science behind it. They start with a hook, then they do a rehook, then they open up a curiosity loop and then they tell a story. They give you a little bit, they open up another like curiosity loop and then, you know, the next thing you know, you finish the entire piece of content, you're sharing it with your friends.
And I think a lot of those principles can even be applied to the way you approach the copywriting in your email. Because like you were saying in the beginning, we want to, we want to get the open. We want to get the open. We want to draw curiosity. We get them into the email and then once they're in the email, you want to spark curiosity, you want to be human, you want to do all these things where it's not just a simple informational message, it's really designed for the platform. So I think that's just one of the fun things about content creation. It's like you See all these reoccurring threads, but then the formats are a little bit different. So there's things that you're going to do for email that are slightly different than the, the strategies that you're going to use for a post that goes viral on LinkedIn or link or Instagram reels or something like that.
But there are definitely, you know, parts that are, are similar that you can kind of pull from, from your inspo. So at least for everyone who's listening, if you, if you guys have any other ideas from like other ways that you guys create content on, whether it's your YouTube channel, your LinkedIn, your whatever, see how you can apply those strategies to, to your emails, Right?
Yeah, big time. I so spot on, Martha.
The next question I was going to have was going to be about content frequency, Right. This is something people ask about in other platforms. How many reels should I be posting? How many LinkedIn posts should I be doing? How many emails should I be sending? Because again, we don't want, we don't want unsubscribes, we don't want spams. But at the same time we want to grow, we want to engage and we want to, you know, keep our funnel growing. So what are you seeing in the data and what would you recommend? And I know it can obviously vary by business, but like, generally speaking, how do you approach frequency?
Yeah, generally speaking, once a week is good. I think what you don't want to do is have a consistent time frame and then go dart and then come back in because that can create a lot of spam or unsubscribes. Right. Spam. Specifically people marking you as spam because maybe they forgot that they subscribed. I don't know if you've ever had these, but you subscribe to something, they never really email you and ultimately they decide that they want to do email marketing. So three years later they're sending you an email, you have no interest in it anymore and you mark them as spam. Right.
Hopefully you don't. Please don't mark people as spam because it's really hard to get out of the spam. Yeah. Territory once that happens. But yeah, I think stay once a week is probably good across the board. And then the best thing you can do is to be hyper specific to what your audience wants. I think that's just across every channel in marketing.
Right.
For email marketing there are really easy ways to do these. So. So when you have your newsletter form, you can add subscriber preferences. So for example, you can say how often do you want to hear from me? And give people the option like once a week, once a month, daily.
Right.
And like if you have for example financial market news, maybe daily makes a lot of sense. Right? Or a real estate business where you want to be sending like daily listings. Right There, there are business with daily actually makes sense. I would say once a month is probably a long time without letting your subscribers hear from you. But some businesses, like, in some cases it also makes sense just give your subscribers the option. I think first of all, once you have that form, you're going to get an idea of how often they want to hear from you.
Right?
Because just by collecting that data you'll get an indication then that could be your like what you start with. That could be your best possible data. And based on that you can always give people the option to change their frequency.
Right.
And then the best news is that when you, it's not really hard to manage on the other side. You don't have to keep track because they're already self segmenting. So when you have for example your weekly newsletter, you can only send it to the segment that's like your weekly segment. And then maybe for your monthly newsletter you can have a roundup of here's what you missed last week or this month and, and then make it work so you're not creating a lot of extra work for yourself.
Totally. And the last question that I have, Martha in in regards to like email best practices because I know we're covering them all and then for anyone else who you know, has any other questions about strategy or your own personal business or your own strategy that you're doing, drop them in like the, the comments and we'll get them out into the qa because we're going to kick that off in a second. But I was going to ask about cleaning your email list. This is something that like I've talked about with, with my co founder a bunch, you know, is that something that you should be doing if people are, if you're just constantly sending emails to people and they're not opening is should you clean your email list? Should you actually remove subscribers or does it not matter? How do you guys think about that?
Oh, this is a hard one. Because you should be cleaning your email list. I don't like that. I think you should have a very clear unsubscribe link at the bottom of your campaigns. And if people don't find your content relevant anymore, they should subscribe before cleaning a list and removing subscribers that didn't remove themselves. I would probably run a campaign that says, like, you can segment your audience based on people who, for example, haven't opened my email in six months or three months. Right. And then send an email to them saying, hey, I noticed you haven't opened my emails recently.
And I just want to let you know that if you want to unsubscribe, you can click here and give them the choice.
Right.
And maybe let them clean themselves. Sounds weird, but because it's so hard to grow a list, right? And also a lot of people just don't engage all the. Like, I have a lot of subscriptions where I might not open if it gets really busy and chaotic. I might not open your newsletter for a few months.
Right.
But I really definitely still want to be subscribed. So. So I think having that option too. And I've, I've gotten those emails as well that offer to help me out and I can't think of a single time that I took that because I, I still wanted to be subscribed.
Right.
I think if I didn't want to be, I would have unsubscribed. So I would say try to do that first. And then this is probably my like favorite area of where AI is going to disrupt email marketing. I think this is an area where with these and tags as well, but especially the cleanup, the list. Having more creative ways to re engage or opt out people who are disengaged is going to become a lot easier with AI because right now it's pretty manual. You have to go and you have to segment and you have to kind of know what you're looking for. But with AI, it can automatically take people that are considered disengaged based on a combination of factors. Not just not opening, but maybe you haven't clicked in a while or maybe the number of clicks combined with the number of opens or the frequency and timing, you could even like adjust.
Like I can see a world in which you adjust the bar and you're like, I want to go super aggressive in this segment for disengage or I want to go conservative, right. And then the, the tool should be able to do this for you. And I think that's the, the, that's what we're going to start to see change. And it's so much easier. It's so exciting. And, and then the benefit is that you can continue to focus on grading the content. Right? Like being hyper human. Because that's another change we're going to see, right? Like for a while, a Lot of people are going to be using AI to create their content and you're going to start getting these exhaustion right from AI generated content.
You can just see a lot of like it's crucial and you're like yeah, this is GPT generated. Right. And, and we saw that happen in social media where it was all filtered and perfect and robotic and people started wanting the behind the scenes, the messy band, the show me what's really happening. Right. And now we have the person holding the phone and shaky camera and, and I think that's just what's going to happen with, with content and email as well. So better to stay ahead of the curve.
Perfect. And what just one last question that kind of relates to that is what about emails where people sign up and maybe they give a, a BS email or maybe they add a typo. So like you're not actually delivering to an inbox. Is there, is there any way to clean that or should those be cleaned?
A hundred percent should be cleaned, otherwise that can get you in spam faster than any content that you can create. And your platform should be cleaning these for you. So essentially before you send an email in fltisk, we go through your list and anything that soft bounces is essentially sent for more of a like a second look. And if they look like, like the.com and it's.co and it's undeliverable, we remove that for you. We let you know. But you should, your platform should not let you send to bot addresses or incorrect addresses because that's super damaging. Yeah. In the end of the day like you shouldn't have to worry about deliverability.
That's what WIX is for. So great question but choose Google Strong.
That's good to know. You guys do that. Okay. And then last promise is the last question before we open it up. So like please everyone drop your questions in the chat. So we'll, we'll open those up right after this. But you mentioned AI as it pertains to email. What are you seeing in the space? What are you guys building in the space? Like how is AI going to play in email in, in a positive way? I think we covered like the negatives where it's like a bunch of people creating a bunch of like AI generated content.
But like what are the positives that you see out of it? What are you guys planning for and how are you thinking about AI anymore?
Yeah. Oh, so excited. So I think what we're going to like the best expression of AI is going to be agentic.
Right.
So Imagine like agents that help you get things done. And I think the biggest change we're going to see is in the solopreneur space, because by definition, a solopreneur is one person that's running a business, right? And imagine if you could have agents for practically like anything. I'm not saying you're going to replace like hiring people, but the Solopreneur is not like, is a solopreneur by definition, right? So if instead of using your tool, your software to just design an email and send it, but you could chat with your software and say, like, what should my email marketing strategy be? And have your software be your agent for that specific purpose and hyper optimize everything that you do and, and teach you how to do it super well. Because we have that data, right? Like we send billions of emails. We have a lot of aggregated data. We have a lot of aggregated data about your subscribers as well. So we can, we can actually hold your hand a lot more than we're currently holding your hand. And I think the biggest barrier was making it speak your language, right? Like making it super easy to interact with.
So now that barrier is gone. So I'm really excited about that. I think that's going to be the best and most positive expression. It's a. You're going to be able to operate like a large business and compete with large businesses. It really levels the playing field. And the channel is already optimized for this as well. Because if you look at, for example, meta, right? If you, if you're creating content on Instagram, you are every single day competing with other businesses that are creating content as well and businesses that are paying for ads, right? So all of a sudden you have to compete with people who have a larger budget and they get better placement because they're paying the platform.
Now let's go to the inbox. That doesn't exist. You cannot, Amazon cannot pay Gmail to rank higher than you in the inbox. No, right? Like this is entirely in your hands. You can figure out what's the best time to send for your audience and send it, and nobody can pay you out of that specific space. You're not fighting the algorithm. So I think the combination of the agentic AI with, with these just being the channel that already levels the playing field is going to be super exciting.
Awesome. And I love that how you're thinking about it in terms of like, you know, the agent can kind of be your email strategist. Even in Gasmagic, like, we're thinking about how can AI be your content strategist? Right. So it's, it's, it's going to be a really exciting time where in your platforms you're going to be able to use your platform to do what you need it to do, but you're going to have all these tools to like really supplement your workflow. And the cool thing here is like I think one of the things that you did with Flow Desk is like probably back in the day when email wasn't really pretty and you didn't have easy templates, you would have to, you get an email strategist, get an email like template designer that's like writing the HTML and setting all this up and then you're able to productize that. And I think there's just like, it's just a really exciting time with AI because like all of those like manual services you can essentially like bring in house, bring in platform and then you know, the people who benefit are really the solopreneurs who you know, are, would really love to have a beautiful email and now they got it or would really love to have an entire content strategist team and now they have it. So really exciting. Okay, so let's get into the Q and A.
So the first one is from Dave. How would you rate the degree of priority to get a referral reward program going just for the list itself relative to the lead magnet, a higher engagement affiliate program for actual referral partners, et cetera? So I think the question is just about, yeah, like how would you prioritize getting some sort of refer. Referral program set up?
Yeah. Okay, so it's a, it's a great question. It's a popular trend to get referrers for your list. I don't, I personally don't believe in that. And the reason is because a referred email has I think one eighth of the value of an email of a person who actually decides to opt into your list because they are relating to you. So the, the, I think I initially I was really excited about these, but the data we're seeing is that when they come from referrals they don't have the same connection to you, the content creator that they would have if they were opting in directly. So then eventually they forget like, oh, why am I getting emails from this person? Right. Because they never really established that, I guess emot conscious connection.
And then it leads to a lot more unsubstructs. I do think there's a right way to do it, but it's not something that like we Believe in. I think also the privacy law is going in the completely different direction. Right. It's like first party opt in. So I would recommend sticking to what's legal in this case. Not saying that that's not legal, it's just like a great area.
I think that's a good call out. Right. Like, you know, at first glance I think people might think, oh, it might be the fastest way ever to grow an email is through referrals and these referral programs and maybe I can pay for subscribers. But like again, you're never going to get the same intent as you are as someone who like found your content, loved it and signed up. So I think that's a great call out. I wasn't even thinking of that, so that's awesome. Okay. Kelsey asks how reliable are open rates though with all of the machine opens?
Okay, not just the machine opens, but changes in Apple mail. Right. I think in general much less reliable, but at the same time they're really key to understanding your success. And the way that I would think about it is less of the absolute number. Like we already know that we're probably not getting the right number. It might be inflated because of the auto replies, but it might be deflated because of the Apple privacy changes. So don't see it as absolute number but see it as a trend. Right.
Like if, if both of these like the Apple deflation and the machine inflation are impacting your absolute open rate, that means it's going to continue to be impacted the rest of the time.
Right.
So don't focus on the on the absolute total, but focus on the trend. If your open rate is increasing, it's probably really increasing. If it's decreasing, it's really decreasing. So, so track that trend and then use that trend as your validation and your success metric.
Awesome. Next one from Kim is how many newsletters or emails should you send for a welcome series? I'm also super curious about this one because I think there's too many emails in our welcome series.
Yeah. So it depends on your content. So let me tell you how we determine ours. We have a new trial welcome series. So the very first piece that we took a look at is how long is our trial open for? So it's a 30 day trial. So then we know, okay, well we have 30 days for these specific welcome sequence. So then you look at the actual journey, like where are they truly in their journey? What are they thinking on day one, what are they needing on day three? And this is based on two things. What are customers actually telling you like when they come in to support and they ask for questions or help.
And two, what are customers, customers actually telling you? Because you pick up the phone and you call them and you ask, hey, how's it going?
Right?
It's day three. What do you need?
Right?
You need to get that information to make it hyper relevant. You need to always be talking to your leads to your, to your customers and then figure out exactly what they need at what point. So for example, we know that around day seven they're going to start working on automations, right? So we start sharing some tips right before that where at the beginning they're looking at sending their first email how to design it. So we send like top 10 design tips, right? So how many and how long it should be? Really truly, I know you want a specific answer, but I actually will encourage you to not copy somebody else's playbook because what works for us, even for that specific welcome flow is very different than what works for a welcome flow in a completely different campaign. Right? So it has to be really like the only, the only data that you should be looking at is data that your customers are selling you or leads.
But I think that, I think what you just said, actually it is super actionable because you're basically just saying look at the data and understand where, if you weren't going to have a welcome series at all, where would people be from a data perspective in your product funnel or in your product journey. And then you can kind of map your welcome sequence to like where they would be naturally. Like if you know, on average it takes 10 days for them to discover whatever X feature that's like buried in your platform. Then on day 10 you can send them the information about that particular feature because on average it's going to be more relevant on that day than it is going to be on day two. So I think that's a really good call out and I think it's super actionable. Okay, let's see what else we have here. Kelsey asks what is, what is the best practice for when it comes to image to text ratio, for getting a great click rate.
Okay, click rate. I was expecting deliverability. So I'm going to answer two things. First, on deliverability, these used to be something you didn't want to do. You didn't want to include a lot of images because these would affect deliverability. Hasn't been the case for a long time. Image to text still matters, but not on that weight. And actually we see some of the top companies are crushing it in email Marketing, like anthropology, like Airbnb, Urban outfitters.
Their emails are full image, right? So, so there's the structure, the content, right? Like hyper optimizing. It matters more than the ratio. I still think that for sharing a story a text paragraph works a lot well and then having all visuals. But then for. For click rate I think it the optimal that we found. Again this is general. Never copy somebody else's playbook. But what we found is one large hero image large enough where you can still have a button like a very clear cta.
This is a button right under that image and have that button appear over the fold on mobile because most people are opening on mobile right now. After that, whatever you do, just don't make it too long where the inbox providers will clip it. So essentially your ideal format, at least to start with and then experiment and find your own is put your logo, put a hero image that's clear, compelling, right? Like maybe with we. We love hero image layouts because you can have your image but you can have a huge title. So you're already giving people the beginning of the story. Then have your button, then have a text paragraph with a lot of a story. It has to be really human. Then sign up with your signature, have one single call to action and that typically converts better.
And. And then experiment from there. Beautiful.
I think that's, that's a bunch of information on images and rich. Hopefully that answered your question as well about the examples of images to consider for content creators. But last question here. And this is from Dave and this goes to about I guess lead quality, right? Do you think so? He asks, isn't it partly a function of the quality of your list in the first place? As in a thousand well qualified leads would be preferred versus 10,000 of spray and pray variety, right? Or is more always better. So when it comes to intent and like the quality of your list, like how do you think about that? Are you thinking about the quality or are you thinking about the quantity?
No, never, always the quality. And this is why referral programs are not something that we probably will invest in. Would always any day have a highly engaged small list and a large list that will have the risk of throwing me to spam or unsubscribing. And here's a key, right? Like if you own your domain and you should be owning your domain and sending from your domain, your sender reputation will be your biggest game changer on how well email marketing works from you, how well it converts, right? So how profitable it is for you as a channel so your top, top priority should be always to increase your deliverability. And to do that you have to have a very engaged list. People that do not unsubscribe, that don't bounce, right. That aren't bought, addresses that are really truly genuinely first party opting in. And if you have a small list, right, let's say you have 100 people, but you know that your emails are going to land in the inbox, that all 100 people are going to see your content, they're going to be engaged, right.
That you're not sacrificing their or risking your deliverability for the future of your business. That's so valuable. That's so valuable, right? Then having say 200 people, some are bots, some never open your emails, it just gives you more work because at some point you're going to have to clean that list, right? We just talked about it and, and it decreases your email reputation, meaning that sometimes you're going to land in the inbox, sometimes in promotion, sometimes in the spam, right. And then is if like let's say even 30, right. Of those 200 people mark your emails and spam, even if three of those 200 people mark your emails as spam, that can risk for the rest of the lifetime of your domain landing in spam, right. Like that is brutal for your business. You're going to have to go find a new domain, change everything like restart from scratch. It's not worth it.
So yeah, highly engaged, smallest for the win every time.
Tldr stay out of spam. So I love that Martha. I think that is a great place to end for everyone who's, you know, thank you for everyone for, for joining today. For anyone that's looking to, you know, find more information about you, float us like why don't you just shout out your guys socials.
Yeah, of course. So we're@floatus.com I can actually type it here and uh, same like Lotus on Instagram I think. Lodest co on TikTok, which see you there for 90 more days. Thank you. This was such, so fun, such a blast. Thank you for the engagement. Thank you for the questions. Going right back at you.
Congrats on your success as well. Thank you so much. This is so much fun. Thank you.
Yeah, this was a lot of fun. Thanks so much Martha. We had a great time and we learned a whole lot. So, so thanks and have a great one. Bye guys. Thanks for coming. See you.
Bye. Thank you so much.
Also generated
More from this recording
Castmagic LinkedIn Post
Here is a LinkedIn post for the episode release:
Email marketing may be an old dog, but it's still the most powerful channel for creators and businesses to own their audience. 🐶💌
Martha Bitar, CEO and co-founder of Flodesk, joins Blaine Bolus to share how they grew Flodesk to a multi-million dollar email marketing platform for modern creators.
You'll learn what it takes to build an engaged email list from scratch, the anatomy of high-performing email campaigns, and where AI is taking email strategy in the future.
Listen to the full episode here: [link]
#emailmarketing #contentcreators #emailstrategy #growyourlist #uploadingpodcast
3 quick tips
Here's a tweet based on the strategies and context shared in the podcast recording with Martha Bitar, CEO of Flodesk:
Want to grow your email list in 2025? 📈
Here are 3 tips from @MarthaBitar, CEO of @Flodesk:
Offer a lead magnet 🎁
Give subscribers something of value in exchange for their email, like:
• A digital guide
• A downloadable PDF
• Answers to FAQsSegment your list 🗂️
Let subscribers choose their email frequency:
• Daily
• Weekly
• Monthly
This helps you send relevant content to each segment.
Focus on quality over quantity 🌟
A small, engaged list is better than a large, unengaged one.
Why? Engaged subscribers are less likely to:
• Unsubscribe
• Mark you as spam
Avoiding spam complaints protects your sender reputation.
The key takeaway?
Build an email list of genuinely interested subscribers who love your content.
1 Hack 3 tips
Here's a post based on the context and strategies covered in the podcast recording, matching the tone, style, and format of the example provided:
There's 1 key to skyrocketing your email newsletter in 2025:
(Martha Bitar, CEO of Flodesk, shares this powerful insight)
The "Human Touch" strategy.
• Spark curiosity through storytelling
• Create an emotional connection
• Focus on engaging, not just informing
Martha emphasizes that in a world of AI-generated content, being authentically human is your superpower.
• AI-optimized emails vs. Genuine, personal emails
• Robotic, filtered content vs. Raw, behind-the-scenes realness
When you prioritize building a genuine relationship with your subscribers, you create unshakable loyalty and enthusiasm for your brand.
Will it require more effort than just automating everything?
Absolutely.
But if your emails feel impersonal and generic?
Then don't be surprised when your open rates plummet.
The last thing you want is for your carefully crafted newsletter to be instantly forgettable (or worse, marked as spam).
So, how can you apply the "Human Touch" strategy to your email marketing?
Step 1) Identify your audience's core needs and desires
• What are their biggest pain points and aspirations?
• How can you uniquely help them achieve their goals?
• Gather insights by talking to your customers regularly
For example, Martha discovered that modern creators crave:
• On-brand email designs that convert
• User-friendly tools that make email marketing fun
• Establishing an owned audience beyond social media algorithms
Step 2) Craft compelling, story-driven content
• Hook readers with curiosity-inducing subject lines
• Share vulnerable, behind-the-scenes experiences
• Provide immense value that meaningfully impacts their lives
Step 3) Engage in two-way conversations
• Invite replies to your emails and respond personally
• Segment your list to send hyper-relevant content
• Make every subscriber feel seen, heard and appreciated
In an inbox overflowing with impersonal promotions, showing your humanity is an incredible competitive advantage.
ℹ️ Introduction
Hey everyone, welcome to today's episode of Uploading! We've got an exciting show for you today with a very special guest, Martha Bitar, the CEO and co-founder of Flodesk, an email marketing platform that has seen tremendous growth.
In this episode, Martha shares the story of how she built Flodesk from the ground up while still working a full-time job. She noticed that existing email platforms were not meeting the needs of modern content creators, so she set out to create a solution that prioritized great design and ease of use.
Martha dives into the importance of email marketing for creators looking to own their audience and not be at the mercy of social media algorithms. She provides actionable tips on how to grow your email list, create engaging content, and optimize your emails for the highest open and click rates.
Whether you're just getting started with email marketing or looking to take your newsletter to the next level, this episode is packed with valuable insights. Martha even shares a sneak peek at how AI and personalization will shape the future of email.
So grab a notepad and get ready to learn from one of the sharpest minds in email marketing. Without further ado, let's jump into my conversation with Martha Bitar, CEO of Flodesk, on how to grow your newsletter in 2025 and beyond!
💡 Speaker bios
Short Bio for Blaine (in Story Format):
Blaine is the enthusiastic host behind the popular "Uploading" platform, always seeking new ways to uplift and empower fellow creators. Recently, Blaine spearheaded the launch of a private community dedicated to helping individuals build their personal brands the right way. Drawing together some of the world’s top content creators—many of whom have been featured on "Uploading"—Blaine’s vision is a supportive and focused environment where members can scale their content, boost consistency, and genuinely connect with peers. This exclusive community is free to join, but Blaine emphasizes a careful vetting process to ensure everyone is committed to both personal growth and supporting others. With this initiative, Blaine continues to inspire creators to reach new heights while cultivating a collaborative ecosystem.
💡 Speaker bios
Sure! Here’s a short bio for "Blaine" using the info and in a summarized story format:
Blaine is an innovative entrepreneur who founded Flodesk, a fast-growing email marketing platform that quickly scaled to eight-figure annual revenue. While juggling a full-time position at Honeybook, Blaine built Flodesk from the ground up, turning it from a small idea into a remote-first company serving creators and businesses worldwide. Blaine is passionate about helping others harness the power of email marketing, sharing proven strategies to help creators grow their businesses, and showing how determination and creativity can turn side projects into major successes.
💡 Speaker bios
Martha Bitar is the co-founder of Flodesk, an email marketing platform focused on helping users design emails people genuinely love to receive. Alongside her fellow co-founders, Rebecca and Trang, Martha launched Flodesk after noticing that most existing solutions weren’t addressing the real pain points of modern content creators. Inspired by friends in the creative industry—successful social media influencers with millions of followers—Martha set out to build a tool specifically tailored to their needs. Today, Flodesk stands out in a crowded marketplace by bridging the gap between creative expression and effective communication.
💬 Keywords
Here are 30 topical keywords covered in the transcript, separated by commas:
email marketing, Flodesk, solopreneur, content creators, personal brand, design, templates, optimization, conversion, subject lines, preview lines, open rates, click rates, segmentation, engagement, list building, lead magnets, deliverability, spam, frequency, AI, agents, agentic AI, workflow automations, content strategy, referral programs, welcome series, image-to-text ratio, list quality, engagement
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 Modern entrepreneurs find traditional email marketing platforms outdated; they struggle with customization and require solutions beyond basic email delivery.
05:09 Rapid growth was achieved by identifying and solving niche issues in email design, conversion, and copy, despite appearing as a solved problem from the outside.
08:05 Lead with value by addressing FAQs and creating lead magnets that anticipate and answer questions, enhancing content strategy and list-building.
12:52 Segmenting helps identify which parts of a business interest a person, enabling relevant content creation, cross-selling, upselling, and workflow automations based on customer data.
14:58 Solopreneurs often create related but distinct ventures, like building an AI tool for personal needs, leading to diverse projects with separate audiences.
17:36 Capture attention immediately; email marketing must be concise, engaging, and fun.
22:54 Testing email subject and preview lines can be crucial, as appearance on different devices may vary, offering a chance to optimize for better engagement.
23:59 Open rates are crucial for email engagement and funnel success. They validate content reception and influence click potential. To boost engagement, experiment with subject lines and preview texts for open rates, and optimize content for click rates.
29:59 Email remains effective due to its optimized, engaging structure and familiarity, despite predictions of its decline.
31:52 Use sale-optimized layouts and templates for efficiency and clarity in marketing.
34:10 Email copywriting should spark curiosity and be engaging, applying unique strategies distinct from other platforms.
39:55 AI will streamline email marketing by automating list cleanup and re-engaging or opting out disengaged subscribers.
43:34 Agents could transform the solopreneur space by optimizing tasks and strategies through conversational software, leveraging vast data for improved efficiency.
45:44 AI is transforming platforms into strategic tools, enabling solopreneurs to easily enhance workflows, like automating email and content strategies.
50:41 Tailor communications to customer needs by engaging regularly and using customer-specific data, as generic strategies may not be universally effective.
51:32 Align welcome sequences with user data; time interactions around natural product discovery.
54:53 Focus on building a highly engaged, quality email list to improve deliverability and sender reputation, rather than investing in referral programs or large lists.
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 Rethinking Email Marketing Platforms
05:09 Email Design and Conversion Insights
08:05 "Value-Driven Content Strategy"
12:52 Segmenting for Targeted Marketing Automation
14:58 Solopreneur Segmentation Insights
17:36 Engaging Email Marketing Strategies
22:54 Email Optimization: Testing and Previewing
23:59 Maximizing Email Engagement Funnel
29:59 "Optimizing Effective Email Communication"
31:52 "Optimized Sale Layout Strategies"
34:10 Effective Email Copywriting Strategies
39:55 AI Revolutionizing Email Engagement
43:34 Agent Support for Solopreneurs
45:44 AI as Content Strategy Revolution
50:41 Customized Customer Engagement Strategies
51:32 Data-Driven Welcome Strategies
54:53 Prioritize Quality Over Quantity in Email
❇️ Key topics and bullets
Here is a comprehensive sequence of topics covered in the transcript, with sub-topic bullets below each primary topic:
Introduction
Blaine introduces new private community for Uploading podcast
Martha Bitar, CEO of Flodesk, joins as guest to discuss email marketing
Martha's Background and Flodesk's Origin
Identified need for modern email marketing platform for content creators
Flodesk focuses on design and branding for high engagement and conversion
Company grew rapidly to $30 million ARR while bootstrapped
Importance of Email Marketing for Creators
Building an email list is crucial for owning your audience
Provide value through lead magnets and freebies to grow subscriber list
Segment subscribers based on preferences and interests
Creating Engaging Emails
Engaging subject lines and preview text to increase open rates
Optimized email design and layout for branding and conversion
Telling a compelling story and being human in your content
Ideal image-to-text ratio and placement of call-to-action buttons
Email Marketing Best Practices
Sending frequency and letting subscribers choose their preferences
Cleaning your email list and re-engaging inactive subscribers
Maintaining high deliverability by avoiding spam triggers and building sender reputation
Role of AI in Email Marketing
AI as an agent to optimize strategy and content
Leveling the playing field for solopreneurs to compete with larger businesses
Importance of staying human and authentic in an AI-driven world
Q&A Session
Prioritizing referral programs for list growth
Reliability of open rates with machine opens and privacy changes
Ideal length and content for welcome email series
Quality vs. quantity when it comes to email list size
The discussion flowed naturally, covering a wide range of topics related to email marketing for content creators and solopreneurs. Martha provided valuable insights and actionable tips based on Flodesk's data and her experience in the industry. The conversation also touched on the future of AI in email marketing and the importance of maintaining a human touch in an increasingly automated world.
❓ Questions
Here are 10 discussion questions based on the Uploading... episode titled "How to Grow Your Newsletter in 2025 feat. Flodesk CEO Martha Bitar":
Martha mentions that email marketing platforms created 20 years ago were focused on solving different problems compared to today. What are some key differences between the needs of modern entrepreneurs and those from two decades ago?
How can content creators effectively use email marketing to avoid being overly dependent on social media algorithms and "rented space"?
Martha suggests using custom fonts and on-brand designs in emails to increase conversion rates. How do you think this impacts the overall user experience and engagement with email content?
What are some creative ways to grow your email list while providing value to potential subscribers, as discussed in the episode?
Martha and Blaine discuss the importance of segmenting email lists based on subscriber preferences and interests. How can this strategy help improve the relevance and effectiveness of your email campaigns?
The episode touches on the concept of the "octopus" solopreneur who has multiple offerings and business aspects. How can email marketing help manage and promote these various facets of a creator's business?
Blaine and Martha discuss the importance of subject lines and preview text in increasing open rates. What are some best practices for crafting compelling subject lines and preview text?
Martha suggests sending emails once a week as a general guideline. How can creators determine the optimal frequency for their specific audience and industry?
The discussion touches on the role of AI in the future of email marketing. In what ways do you think AI can help solopreneurs create more effective and personalized email campaigns?
Martha emphasizes the importance of having a highly engaged email list, even if it's smaller in size. How can creators prioritize quality over quantity when building their email list?
🎬 Reel script
Hey there, Blaine here and today we just wrapped up an incredible workshop all about email marketing with Martha Bitar, the CEO and co-founder of Flodesk. Martha shared so many valuable insights on how to grow your email list the right way, craft compelling subject lines, and design emails that truly convert.
We covered the importance of leading with value when building your list, segmenting your audience, and finding the right email frequency. Martha also gave her take on AI in email marketing and how it can level the playing field for solopreneurs.
If you want to elevate your email game in 2025, you won't want to miss this jam-packed episode. Head to the show notes to catch the full recording and don't forget to join our free Uploading community to connect with other creators. See you in the next one!
🔑 7 Key Themes
Here are 7 key themes discussed in the transcript, with 7 words or less for each theme:
Building an email list is crucial
Email design impacts open rates and engagement
Segment email list based on subscriber preferences
AI will help level the playing field
Focus on engaged subscribers, not just quantity
Experiment to find what works for you
Prioritize sender reputation to avoid the spam folder
🎠 Social Carousel
Here is a 10 slide LinkedIn/Instagram carousel featuring tips from the podcast episode with Martha Bitar, CEO of Flodesk:
Cover slide:
10 Email Marketing Tips Every Creator Needs to Know
Slide 1:
Build Your List
Grow your email list as soon as possible. It's a tried and tested channel.
Slide 2:
Offer a Freebie
Provide value upfront by offering a freebie in exchange for an email address.
Slide 3:
Segment Your List
Segment subscribers based on their interests to send hyper-relevant content.
Slide 4:
Nail the Subject
Your open rate depends on your subject line. Test to see what resonates.
Slide 5:
Hook with Preview
Use the preview text as a hook to draw curiosity and boost opens.
Slide 6:
Optimize for Design
Emails optimized for conversion with your branding perform better than plain text.
Slide 7:
Send with Frequency
Once per week is a good starting frequency. Let subscribers choose their cadence.
Slide 8:
Clean with Caution
Be very judicious about removing inactive subscribers. Offer an opt-out first.
Slide 9:
Quality over Quantity
A small list of engaged subscribers beats a large list of uninterested ones.
Slide 10:
Ready to level up your email game? Sign up for a free trial of Flodesk at flodesk.com
How's that? I focused on distilling the key tips from Martha into short, actionable insights creators can use to improve their email marketing based on the points discussed in the episode. The cover and final CTA slide aim to bookend the carousel and encourage viewers to try out Flodesk. Let me know if you would like me to modify anything!
💎 Maxims
Here are the key maxims about email marketing based on the discussion between Blaine and Martha Bitar in the Uploading podcast episode:
Start building your email list as soon as possible. It's the most valuable asset you own as a content creator.
Offer a compelling lead magnet or freebie to incentivize people to join your email list. Make it specific to your audience's needs and wants.
Segment your email list from the beginning based on subscriber preferences and behaviors. This allows you to send more targeted, relevant content.
Focus on email design and branding to stand out in crowded inboxes. Use custom fonts, compelling visuals, and clear calls-to-action.
Keep your email copy simple, human and story-driven. Avoid sounding too salesy or robotic.
Aim to send engaging emails to your list about once per week. Be consistent in your sending frequency.
Prioritize growing an engaged, high-quality email list over quantity. A smaller list of loyal subscribers is better than a large list of unengaged contacts.
Clean your email list periodically, but give disengaged subscribers a chance to opt-in again before removing them.
Pay attention to your email metrics, particularly open rates and click rates, to gauge what's working. But focus on overall trends rather than obsessing over individual numbers.
Embrace AI-powered tools to optimize your email strategy and content, but don't lose the human touch. AI should enhance your work, not replace genuine connection with your audience.
The most important thing is to get started with email marketing now if you haven't already. It's a powerful owned channel that will become increasingly valuable to content creators.
Interview Breakdown
Here are the show notes for the recording between Blaine and Martha Bitar about email marketing best practices in 2025:
In this episode, Martha Bitar, CEO of email marketing platform Flodesk, shares her insider tips for creating effective email campaigns that engage subscribers and drive conversions. Discover how to leverage the power of email to grow your business in 2025 and beyond.
In this episode, we'll cover:
Why email remains a crucial marketing channel, even in 2025
How to build and segment your email list for maximum impact
Best practices for crafting compelling subject lines and preview text
Strategies for optimizing email design and content for high click rates
How AI will transform email marketing and level the playing field for solopreneurs
Short Recap
Here is a short 2 sentence summary of the recording, matching the requested tone, style and format:
In this episode, Martha Bitar, CEO of email marketing platform Flodesk, shares her best practices for growing your email list and boosting engagement through hyper-relevant content and optimized email design. Martha reveals how Flodesk's focus on solving modern-day email marketing challenges like deliverability, segmentation and design has fueled their bootstrapped growth to $30 million ARR.
Short Blurb
Sure, I'd be happy to write a short blurb for the podcast episode using the outline and style you provided. Here's what I came up with based on the transcript:
E73: In today's workshop episode, I'm joined by Martha Bitar, CEO of Flodesk - an email marketing platform that has rapidly grown to an 8-figure ARR business. Martha built Flodesk while working full-time and now leads a remote-first company serving creators and businesses worldwide.
Martha shares her insights on how to effectively use email marketing to grow your business in 2023 and beyond. She reveals the secrets behind Flodesk's meteoric rise and how their focus on design and simplicity has disrupted the email space.
In this episode, you'll learn:
How to build and grow an engaged email list
The power of segmentation and personalization
Strategies for crafting high-converting email content
Best practices for subject lines and preview text
The future of email marketing and the role of AI
Fun fact: Martha reveals that adding an emoji to your subject line can significantly boost open rates - but it depends on your audience and brand voice.
If you're a creator, solopreneur or marketer looking to master email marketing, this is a must-listen episode packed with actionable tips. Martha drops knowledge bombs left and right!
Ready to elevate your email game? Tune in now and discover how Flodesk is empowering the next generation of email marketers. Let's optimize those inboxes!
How's that? I aimed to match the tone, style and format of the example blurb you provided, while incorporating key takeaways and highlights from the transcript of Martha's interview. Let me know if you would like me to modify anything.
New Idea
Idea #1: Use Email to Own Your Audience
Email allows you to directly reach and engage your audience without being dependent on social media algorithms:
Grow Your Email List Early: Martha recommends starting to build your email list as soon as possible, even before having a website. You can create a signup form to share on social media and begin capturing subscribers. (Martha, 00:06:14)
Provide Value to Subscribers: Offer a freebie or lead magnet in exchange for an email address. Think about common questions your audience asks and create a valuable resource like a PDF guide or tips email to incentivize signups. (Martha, 00:07:15)
You Own Your Email List: Unlike social media followers on "rented land" subject to changing algorithms, your email list is an audience you own. Even if an email provider becomes obsolete, you can export your subscribers and move to another platform. (Martha, 00:19:27)
1 Key Learning
Build and Engage Your Email List Early
Growing an email list should be a top priority for creators from day one, even before having a website. Your email list is a direct connection with your audience that you own and control.
Focus on consistently delivering value to your email subscribers through a mix of compelling content, exclusive offers, and personalized messaging based on their interests and behaviors. This approach will keep them engaged and less likely to unsubscribe.
Hustle Thread
Here is a narrative tweet thread about the topic covered in the recording, following the requested format and tone:
Tweet 1:
Martha Bitar was running on limited time.
She was building Flodesk while working full-time.
But she didn't give up on her vision.
Today, Flodesk is an 8-figure ARR business,
Serving creators and companies worldwide.
Here's her inspiring story: 🚀
Tweet 2:
Meet Martha Bitar (@MarthaBitar), CEO and Co-Founder of Flodesk.
She grew her email marketing platform to 8-figures while working another job.
It's an incredible story of grit and determination.
Tweet 3:
Martha started Flodesk after seeing a key problem for creators.
Existing email platforms were outdated, not serving their needs.
Design, branding, and ease-of-use were lacking.
Tweet 4:
So Martha set out to build a better solution.
She worked with her co-founders Rebecca and Trang.
They focused on modern email marketing essentials:
Beautiful designs, custom fonts, and intuitive features.
All while Martha continued her full-time job.
Tweet 5:
After launching, growth took off faster than expected.
Word spread virally on Twitter about Flodesk.
Signups and paid conversions accelerated rapidly.
Martha knew she had found product-market fit.
Tweet 6:
To fuel Flodesk's growth, Martha shared expert email tips:
Build your list ASAP, even before a website.
Create a valuable opt-in freebie to incentivize signups.
Segment subscribers to send hyper-relevant content.
Craft compelling subject lines to boost opens.
Tweet 7:
Today, Flodesk has reached $30M ARR, all bootstrapped.
Martha leads a thriving remote-first company.
Her passion for serving creators remains at the forefront.
Flodesk helps them build their brand and business.
Tweet 8:
Martha's journey shows what's possible with email marketing.
By focusing on creators' needs, she filled a key gap.
Her advice: Start building your list now.
Stay human and use design to stand out.
The size of your list matters less than engagement.
Tweet 9:
From building Flodesk on the side to 8-figure success,
Martha's story is one of perseverance and purpose.
She's proof that you can pursue your vision,
Even while juggling other responsibilities,
And make a massive impact along the way.
🧿 Viral Breakdown & CTA
Struggling to grow your email list?
Unlock the secrets to skyrocket your subscribers and boost engagement!
With 30 million in ARR, Flodesk CEO Martha Bitar shares her expert insights.
Is your email marketing falling flat despite your best efforts?
Discover the top 3 strategies to supercharge your email success:
Irresistible Lead Magnets
Creating a high-value freebie is the key to attracting subscribers. Identify your audience's biggest pain points and craft a resource that solves their problems. Whether it's a PDF guide, email course, or exclusive content, make it impossible for them to resist signing up.Hyper-Targeted Segmentation
One size doesn't fit all in email marketing. Segment your list based on subscriber preferences, behaviors, and interests. This allows you to deliver hyper-relevant content that keeps them engaged. Use tools like subscriber preference forms and automation to make segmentation a breeze.Optimized Email Design
Your emails need to stand out in a crowded inbox. Prioritize on-brand design with custom fonts, compelling visuals, and a clear call-to-action. Keep your subject lines clear and use preview text as a hook. Above all, make sure your emails are optimized for conversion on any device.
Ready to take your email game to the next level? Tune into the Uploading Podcast to learn from top creators and entrepreneurs like Martha Bitar. Unlock the strategies you need to grow your business with email marketing.
Uploading... Titles
Here are some exciting titles for this episode based on the format and examples you provided:
Martha Bitar, Flodesk CEO - How To Grow Your Email List To 8 Figures
Martha Bitar, Flodesk CEO - Scaling An Email Platform While Working Full-Time
Martha Bitar, Flodesk CEO - The Modern Way To Make Emails People Love
Martha Bitar, Flodesk CEO - Making Email Marketing Fun Again For Creators
Martha Bitar, Flodesk CEO - The Future of Email: AI, Design & Deliverability
Martha Bitar, Flodesk CEO - How Flodesk Took On Legacy Platforms & Won
Martha Bitar, Flodesk CEO - Secrets To Building A Highly-Engaged Email List
Martha Bitar, Flodesk CEO - Why Email Beats Social Media Every Time
Twitter Post 1
Fun fact from the podcast:
Flodesk saw a 21% increase in email conversions
Just by using on-brand design in emails
Versus generic text-based emails
Mindsets
If you're hoping to grow your email newsletter in 2025, here are some mindset shifts that can help as you begin the process:
💭 Shift your focus from trying to game the algorithms on social media to building an engaged email list that you own. While platforms like TikTok can drive massive growth, they ultimately control the relationship with your audience. By investing in growing an email list, you ensure long-term access to your subscribers. [00:01:27]
💭 Adopt a value-first approach to email content. Instead of just asking people to sign up for your newsletter, offer a compelling lead magnet that answers their most pressing questions and delivers immediate value. This could be a PDF guide, an email course, or exclusive content that's unavailable anywhere else. [00:07:15]
💭 View email as an opportunity to build real human connection. While social media is great for reach, email allows you to have personal conversations at scale. Focus on sharing stories, being vulnerable, and writing like you would to a friend. Encourage subscribers to hit "reply" and engage with you directly. [00:41:49]
In this episode of Uploading..., Blaine sat down with Martha Bitar, CEO of Flodesk, to discuss the secrets behind their explosive growth and the future of email marketing.
Check out the full episode for more mindset shifts and practical advice on how to scale your newsletter in 2025 and beyond!
Future State, 6 reasons post
Based on the podcast transcript, here is a post following the format and style you provided:
In 1 year, Flodesk grew to 30,000 customers and $30 million ARR, all while bootstrapped. As the CEO and co-founder, I've seen firsthand how email marketing is evolving. But many email platforms are missing a HUGE opportunity. Here are 6 recommendations that if applied, can help email marketing platforms better serve the needs of modern creators and entrepreneurs:
BACKGROUND:
Forget spray-and-pray email blasts, the future belongs to highly targeted, personalized, and engaging emails that convert.
Email platforms need to enable segmentation, automation, and optimization at the individual subscriber level.
If email platforms pay attention, they can transform into end-to-end marketing and sales engines that not only engage audiences but nurture them into customers.
Old Email Marketing:
Text-based, generic emails
Lack of segmentation
Manual, time-consuming
Low engagement and conversion
New Email Marketing:
Visually engaging, on-brand emails
Hyper-targeted segments
Automated yet personal
High engagement and conversion
At Flodesk, our customers are seeing 2-3x the typical email marketing conversion rates by leveraging our design templates, custom fonts, and automated workflows. It's hard to replicate this success with traditional email platforms.
HOWEVER...
There are still many manual steps and lack of AI assistance in creating the perfect email journey for each subscriber. Email platforms should consider adding a few key features to deliver on the full potential.
Here are my 6 recommendations:
Use AI to analyze a customer's product/content and automatically suggest optimized subject lines, preview text, hero images and calls-to-action for each email.
Allow uploading of custom fonts and automatically match email designs to website and social media branding for a cohesive experience.
Enable customers to set up preference centers to let subscribers self-select email frequency and topics. Use this to auto-segment.
Identify disengaged subscribers based on lack of opens/clicks and auto-trigger winback or re-engagement campaigns to optimize list health.
Provide out-of-the-box templates for creator-specific email needs like digital product launches, online course promotions, or event registrations.
Show a dashboard with subscriber-level insights on engagement, conversion and sales, and use AI to recommend next-best-actions to optimize revenue per subscriber.
I would happily pay for an email platform that can become my automated copilot in optimizing every step of the customer journey from the first touchpoint to the latest purchase.
The email marketing space has so much innovation potential that it blows my mind.
As more business is done online by creators and solopreneurs, email platforms have the opportunity to become the central nervous system powering audience relationships and transactions.
P.S.
As a creator, what do you feel is most lacking in email marketing platforms today?
How can email platforms use AI to save you time while maximizing the impact of every email you send?
Workbook
Alright, here's a workbook based on the transcript you provided:
Introduction
Understand the growth story of Flodesk, an email marketing platform that helps design emails people love to get
Learn key strategies for growing your newsletter and engaging your audience through email in 2025
Building Your Email List
Start building an email list as soon as possible, even before having a website
Create a branded opt-in form and share it everywhere (link in bio, send to contacts, in-person sign-ups, etc.)
Offer a valuable freebie/lead magnet to incentivize sign-ups
Identify your audience's top questions and create a helpful resource (PDF guide, tips email, etc.)
Use a "choose your own adventure" approach with multiple freebies to segment subscribers from the start
Email Content Best Practices
Stand out in a crowded inbox with great design
Use email templates optimized for conversion with engaging visuals and your unique branding
Keep layouts simple with a clear hierarchy: compelling hero image, prominent CTA button above the fold, and concise copy that tells a story
Craft engaging subject lines and preview text
Subject line should be clear about the email's content
Use the preview text as a curiosity-sparking hook
Test different approaches (questions, emojis, personalization, etc.) to see what resonates with your audience
Find the right email cadence for your audience
Once a week is generally a good starting point
Consider letting subscribers choose their preferred frequency
Be consistent in your sending schedule
Improving Email Performance
Regularly clean your email list
Remove inactive subscribers and invalid/fake emails to protect your sender reputation
But first, try a re-engagement campaign to let inactive subscribers opt-out or stay subscribed
Use segmentation to send more relevant, targeted content
Segment based on subscriber preferences, behaviors, or interests
Set up automated email sequences tailored to each key segment
Pay attention to key email metrics
Open rates indicate subject line success and overall audience engagement
Click rates show how well your email content resonates and converts
Look at trends over time, not just single campaign results
The Future of Email Marketing
Leverage AI-powered tools to optimize and personalize your email strategy
Get data-driven content and sending time recommendations
Automate list cleaning and re-engagement
But don't neglect the human touch - focus on building real audience connection
Share authentic, behind-the-scenes content
Encourage replies and conversations
Conclusion
Email remains a powerful owned channel to engage and convert your audience
By implementing these cutting-edge strategies, you can grow your email list and revenue through more personalized, impactful campaigns
Always be learning, testing, and adapting your approach based on your unique audience insights
Here's to your email marketing success in 2025 and beyond!
Let me know if you would like me to elaborate on any part of the workbook. I'm happy to dive deeper into specific topics or action steps to help you get the most out of this training.
Tweet thread on learnings
Tweet 1:
🚀 Amazing insights from @MarthaBitar, CEO of @flodesk, on growing a successful email marketing biz:
💌 Started Flodesk to solve modern email marketing pains
📈 Grew to $30M ARR while bootstrapped
✉️ Email is still the best way to directly engage your audience
My top takeaways from the chat with Martha: 👇
Tweet 2:
Build your email list ASAP
Before even having a website, start building your email list. Create an on-brand form and share it everywhere:
Link in bio
Send to existing contacts
Display QR code in physical locations
Growing your list should be a top priority from day one.
Tweet 3:
Provide value to grow your list
Think of an email address as currency. Offer something valuable in exchange, like:
Answers to common questions
Tips & tricks PDF
Industry guide
Make it impossible for people not to sign up by leading with value!
Tweet 4:
Segment your list from the start
Let subscribers self-segment by interests on your sign-up form.
Have multiple lead magnets (guides, courses, etc) to understand what content resonates.
Then send hyper-relevant emails to each segment, personalizing their journey.
Tweet 5:
Nail the email basics to boost engagement
🔥 Compelling subject line to drive opens
👀 Curiosity-sparking preview text
🖼️ Eye-catching hero image
📱 Clear CTA button above the fold
💌 Short, story-driven copy with personality
✍️ Personal sign-off
Test these elements to optimize your emails!
Tweet 6:
Clean your list the right way
Don't immediately remove inactive subscribers. First, send a re-engagement campaign asking if they want to stay subscribed.
Let them self-clean before you clean. It's hard to grow a list, so give them a chance to opt back in!
Tweet 7:
AI will level the playing field for solopreneurs
Imagine chatting with your email tool to get:
Personalized email strategy
Automated list clean-up
Optimized send times
AI agents will help solopreneurs operate like big businesses, without the big budgets or teams.
Tweet 8:
Email lets you own your audience
You're not fighting algorithms or competing with ad dollars in the inbox.
No one can pay their way above you. If you nail your email game, you have a direct line to your audience that you control.
Powerful stuff!
Tweet 9:
Quality > quantity for email lists
Focus on building a highly engaged list, even if it's small.
Avoid buying leads or using referral programs that attract uninterested subscribers.
Protect your sender reputation at all costs. An engaged list that stays out of spam is 🔑
Youtube Description
How to Grow Your Newsletter in 2025 feat. Flodesk CEO Martha Bitar | Blaine from Uploading Podcast and Martha Bitar discuss email marketing strategies for 2025.
In this podcast episode, Blaine sits down with Martha Bitar, CEO of Flodesk, to discuss the future of email marketing and how to grow your newsletter effectively in 2025.
Martha shares her insights on:
The importance of email marketing for creators and businesses [01:27]
How Flodesk differentiates itself from other email marketing platforms [02:21]
Tips for building and growing your email list [06:15]
The power of segmentation and personalization in email marketing [11:06]
Best practices for designing high-converting emails [17:19]
Strategies for optimizing subject lines and preview text [20:02]
The ideal email sending frequency for engagement [35:43]
How AI will revolutionize email marketing for solopreneurs [43:27]
Whether you're a content creator, solopreneur, or business owner looking to level up your email game, this episode is packed with actionable strategies and valuable insights from an industry leader.
Learn how to:
Create a seamless brand experience across all touchpoints
Leverage subscriber preferences for hyper-relevant content
Craft compelling email designs that drive clicks and conversions
Harness the power of AI to operate like a large business
And much more!
Don't miss this opportunity to future-proof your email marketing strategy and grow your newsletter in 2025 and beyond. Tune in now!
To learn more about Flodesk, visit:
Website: https://flodesk.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/flodesk/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@flodeskco
Simplify
Here are the key points from the conversation between Martha Bitar and Blaine, simplified:
Flodesk is an email marketing platform that helps you create emails people want to read. It focuses on modern needs like easy design and branding.
The best ways to grow your email list are providing value upfront (a "freebie") and adding subscriber preferences so people can choose how often to hear from you.
When creating emails, use design to grab attention quickly. Have a clear subject line, use the preview text as a hook, and make the content compelling with images, buttons, and your brand story.
Aim to email your list about once per week. You can segment your list based on interests and engagement level.
Open rates depend mostly on subject lines. Click rates depend on having a clear call-to-action.
A smaller, more engaged email list is better than a huge list with uninterested subscribers. Focus on list quality over quantity to maintain good deliverability.
AI will allow solo business owners to get expert guidance on email strategy right within the email platform. This levels the playing field against bigger companies.
The main takeaways are to provide value to subscribers, leverage good design, email consistently but not too often, and maintain a high-quality list for the best results with email marketing. Let me know if you have any other questions!
Uploading LinkedIn-YouTube
@Martha Bitar, CEO of @Flodesk, joins @blaine on this week's Uploading to share how she grew the email marketing platform to an 8-figure ARR business while working full-time at Honeybook.
Martha breaks down the power of email marketing for creators, including:
Strategies to rapidly grow your email list
Best practices for email design, deliverability, and content
How AI will disrupt and enhance email marketing
Martha also shares tactical advice on crafting compelling subject lines, finding the optimal email frequency, and measuring success through open rates.
Whether you're a solopreneur or large business, discover how to use email to own your audience, boost engagement, and drive conversions.
Full episode here: [link to YouTube video]
#uploading #emailmarketing #contentcreators #solopreneurs #newsletter #listbuilding #flodesk
5 Characteristics of Winners
🏆 Successful email marketers stand out with these winning traits:
✅ Focusing on an engaged, quality list over quantity
✅ Optimizing email design for opens and clicks
✅ Leveraging segmentation to send relevant content
✅ Consistently providing value to subscribers
✅ Staying out of the dreaded spam folder
The Rule, The Process, Keys to Success
Here is my attempt at a short post based on the Uploading podcast episode with Martha Bitar, using the tone, style and format of the example provided:
Flodesk is a perfect example of the 80/20 rule in action when it comes to email marketing.
Martha and her team consider themselves experts at 80% of the process - the parts they love like design and creation. But it's the remaining 20% that really takes their email campaigns from good to great.
For Flodesk, the best part is making emails people love to get. Designing beautiful templates, crafting compelling copy, experimenting with emojis and gifs to grab attention. They can't get enough.
Then there's the other part - analyzing open rates, tweaking subject lines, optimizing for different devices, cleaning email lists. It's tedious work but absolutely critical.
Because that part has an outsized impact on results.
You have to test, measure and iterate over and over. Subject line's not working - fix it. Preview text not compelling enough - rewrite it. Too many unengaged subscribers - remove them. Then you check the data again, and what you tweaked impacted something else. 😤
The quest to create the perfect email campaign can feel never-ending...even when you're 80% there. There's always a call-to-action you could strengthen, an image you could swap out, one more A/B test to run.
What's been key for Flodesk is focusing relentlessly on serving their core audience of content creators and solopreneurs. They know they'll never please every type of business, so by honing in on a niche, they have a clear sense of what's going to resonate and can invest their time and energy accordingly.
Don't try to build emails for everyone. Build for your people and solve their specific needs and challenges. Then pour your energy into perfecting that last 20% for them. The results will follow.
3 bullets 3 bullets (dakota)
Here is a post based on the email marketing strategies discussed in the podcast transcript, matching the tone and style of the example provided:
The best email marketers:
• Don't just sell products
• Don't send generic mass emails
• Don't buy email lists
They focus on:
• Adding value through content
• Designing beautiful on-brand emails
• Building an engaged subscriber list
Your dream business is closer than you think with smart email marketing.
Some key tips from Flodesk's CEO Martha Bitar:
Segment your list based on subscribers' interests
Use strong subject lines and preview text to boost open rates
Optimize email design for high click-through rates
Send valuable content consistently, ideally weekly
Prioritize list quality over quantity for sender reputation
With the right strategies, email allows you to own your audience and compete with larger businesses. The future is bright for creators who leverage the power of their email list.
Framework To Build From Scratch
Here's a tweet based on the strategies discussed in the podcast episode with Martha Bitar, CEO of Flodesk, about growing your newsletter in 2025:
If I had to rebuild my newsletter list from 0, here's the content I'd create:
(This is the exact framework @MarthaBitar used to grow @Flodesk to $30M ARR).
To turn strangers into subscribers (and subscribers into customers), you need 3 things:
• You need people to know about your newsletter
• You need people to like your content
• You need people to trust you as a creator
So...
How do you get people to know, like, and trust your newsletter?
By using my SOS Framework.
It's broken down like this...
The "S" stands for Segmented Content.
Create multiple lead magnets to grow your list in a segmented way from the start.
For example:
• A general newsletter signup
• A digital guide download
• An email course
Offer them as a "choose your own adventure" in your bio link.
The "O" stands for Optimized Design.
Well-designed, on-brand emails increase engagement and conversions.
Optimize your emails with:
• Eye-catching hero images
• Clear call-to-action buttons
• Your unique brand fonts
• Mobile-friendly layouts
The inbox is crowded - your design needs to stand out.
And finally, the next "S" is for Storytelling.
Build a human connection with your list through storytelling.
Share your journey through:
• Behind-the-scenes stories
• Lessons learned
• Opinions and worldviews
Let your personality shine. That's how you develop know, like and trust.
Start implementing these 3 pillars into your email strategy and I guarantee you'll land more subscribers and customers from your list.
3 Success Strategies
Here are 3 strategies for success based on the insights shared by Martha Bitar, CEO of Flodesk, in the podcast episode:
Build Your Email List from Day One
According to Martha, one of the most important things you can do as a creator or solopreneur is to start building your email list as early as possible.
In fact, many modern businesses are foregoing a website altogether and focusing solely on growing their email list from the get-go. By creating a branded opt-in form and sharing it everywhere—from your link-in-bio to your physical store—you can start collecting valuable first-party data and owning your audience.
Martha's top tip for rapidly growing your list? Offer a high-value lead magnet that speaks directly to your target audience's most pressing questions and challenges. This could be a PDF guide, an exclusive email series, or any other type of freebie that incentivizes people to hand over their email address.
Prioritize Design in Your Email Marketing
In today's crowded inbox, simply reaching the inbox is no longer enough—your emails need to stand out and make an impact from the moment they're opened.
Martha emphasizes that design is not a luxury in email marketing; it's a necessity. Regardless of whether you're a solopreneur or a large corporation like Stripe, investing in on-brand, conversion-focused email design can lead to significant uplifts in engagement and revenue.
One of the key differentiators of Flodesk is its ability to help users create stunning, on-brand emails without any coding or design expertise. By leveraging features like custom fonts and visually engaging layouts, you can level up your email game and make a lasting impression on your subscribers.
Embrace Segmentation and Automation
As a creator, it's natural to have your hands in many different pots—from digital products to coaching to physical goods. Martha refers to this phenomenon as the "octopus syndrome."
To effectively nurture your subscribers and guide them towards the right offerings, it's crucial to embrace segmentation from the start. By allowing new subscribers to self-select their interests and preferences, you can gain valuable insights into what makes them tick and tailor your email content accordingly.
From there, you can leverage workflow automations to deliver highly relevant content to each segment on autopilot. For instance, if someone opts in to receive a digital guide, you can automatically trigger a drip campaign that delivers bonus tips and tricks over time—keeping you top-of-mind and moving them closer to a purchase.
By combining the power of segmentation and automation, you can build deeper relationships with your audience and run your email marketing like a well-oiled machine.
3 Success Strategies v2
Here are 3 strategies for success based on the insights shared by Martha Bitar, CEO of Flodesk, in the podcast episode:
Prioritize design in your emails
Think email design doesn't matter? Think again. Poorly formatted, generic-looking emails are a surefire way to end up in the spam folder - or worse, unsubscribed.
As Martha points out, design is no longer a luxury in email marketing; it's a necessity. With short attention spans and crowded inboxes, your emails need to be visually engaging from the very first glance.
Here are some tips to elevate your email design:
Use your unique brand fonts and colors to create a cohesive experience
Incorporate compelling images and visuals that draw the reader in
Structure your layout to guide the reader toward a clear call-to-action
Optimize for mobile, as that's where most people are opening
By treating design as an essential element of your email strategy, you'll increase open rates, click-throughs, and ultimately, conversions. Don't let lackluster visuals hold your email marketing back.
Build your email list the right way
Growing an engaged email list is one of the most valuable things you can do for your business. But it's not just about the size of your list - it's the quality that counts.
Martha warns against tactics like referral programs and purchased lists that may boost your numbers in the short term, but lead to low engagement and high unsubscribe rates in the long run.
Instead, focus on attracting subscribers who are genuinely interested in your brand and content. Some ways to do this:
Create opt-in forms with a compelling lead magnet or content upgrade
Promote your newsletter on your website, social channels and other owned media
Leverage pop-ups and other onsite capture methods (sparingly and strategically)
Most importantly, always prioritize the subscriber experience over sheer list size. One engaged reader is worth far more than 10 uninterested ones. Quality over quantity is the name of the game.
Experiment to optimize your email performance
There's no one-size-fits-all formula for email marketing success. As Martha shares, what works for one brand may fall flat for another. The key is to continually test and iterate to find the right approach for your unique audience.
Here are some elements to experiment with:
Subject lines and preview text (be clear, curiosity-provoking, on-brand)
Image to text ratio (incorporate visuals but also include plain text)
Email length and format (strike a balance between scannable and immersive)
Send frequency and cadence (ask subscribers their preferences and monitor unsubscribes)
As you try out different tactics, closely monitor your key email metrics: open rates, click-through rates, unsubscribe rates, spam complaints. Use this data to guide your strategy and zero in on the most effective techniques.
Stay flexible and open to change as your list evolves. What worked a year ago may not cut it today. By making experimentation and analysis a regular part of your email process, you'll keep your program fresh and high-performing for the long haul.
Episode Summary
Here is the episode summary in the requested format:
Martha Bitar is the CEO of Flodesk, an email marketing platform that has quickly grown into an 8-figure ARR business while being completely bootstrapped. Martha built Flodesk while working full-time at Honeybook and now leads a remote-first company serving creators and companies worldwide.
In this episode of Uploading, Martha shares how Flodesk was created specifically to solve the modern pain points of email marketing for content creators. She dives into practical email strategies covering list building, segmentation, subject lines, email design, and the use of AI to optimize campaigns. Martha emphasizes the importance of email as an owned channel to connect directly with audiences in an authentic, engaging way.
Blaine Content Sample
How We Grew Our Email List to 50k in 6 Months Using These 4 Strategies
Just 6 months ago, our email list was hovering around 10k subscribers. Now, we've hit 50k and are well on our way to 100k.
As a content creator, building an engaged email list has been one of the most important ways I've grown my personal brand and business.
So I'll be doubling down on email as I continue to scale my content, products and services.
Background
email is a direct line to my audience
social algorithms are unreliable for reach
I own my email list vs. "renting" social followers
Here are the 4 key strategies I used to rapidly grow my list:
Lead with Value
I created a highly valuable lead magnet that answers my audience's top questions and pain points. This freebie incentivizes people to readily hand over their email address.
As Martha Bitar, CEO of Flodesk, said: "Look at the email address as currency. So you're getting paid with email in exchange for something." [5:15]
Segmentation from the Start
I use a "link in bio" style form to offer multiple opt-ins. This allows subscribers to self-select their interests from the get-go.
With this data, I can send hyper-relevant content to each segment, boosting engagement. Martha noted "a referred email has one eighth of the value of an email of a person who actually decides to opt into your list." [47:55]
Consistency is Key
I committed to emailing my list once per week, every week. This trains subscribers to expect valuable content from me regularly.
Avoid large gaps of radio silence followed by random emails months later, as this leads to unsubscribes and spam complaints from people who forgot they signed up. [36:14]
Optimize for Opens & Clicks
I A/B test subject lines, preview text, content and calls-to-action to maximize open rates and click-through rates.
For subject lines, I keep it clear and experiment with emojis. For preview text, I use it as a "hook" to draw opens. In the email body, I lead with a compelling image, clear CTA button, and personal story. [21:27]
Growing an engaged email list takes work, but it's well worth the long-term dividends. What strategies have you used to grow yours? Let me know!
1 most actionable piece of advice
Lead with value in your emails to grow your list.
Gregs LinkedIN Example
How to Win at Email Marketing in 2025
Start with a strong brand (you are the differentiator)
Use AI to hyper-personalize at scale (segment smarter, not broader)
Build custom email flows (digital clones of your best campaigns)
Flows become the core engine (scalable revenue driver)
Human-crafted special sends become the engaging add-on
Congrats, you've created an infinitely scalable email program
Old model: batch and blast
New model: flows and personalization
Key to winning:
Best customer data (your secret weapon)
Slickest email builder UX
Strong community who loves getting your emails
Knowing when to sprinkle in human-crafted sends
2020: "We're an email-first brand"
2025: "Our email program runs itself"
Salesforce Marketing Cloud has a $4B run rate with huge services teams.
And "their inefficiency is my opportunity"
You can take a slice of that $4B and build a mini version of their results with a lean team and smart email flows.
People always made fun of email. Especially in Silicon Valley.
"No one reads emails anymore. What kind of channel is that lol". Not anymore.
Scale with personalized flows. Tech is almost ready, so get prepared.
Might be one of the best owned channels to focus on. Happy sending.
Questions Shownotes
Here are 20 questions a listener will learn by tuning into this recording:
How did Martha get the idea to start Flodesk as an email marketing platform for creators?
What are the key differences between Flodesk and email marketing platforms created 15-20 years ago?
Why is design and branding so critical for modern email marketing to drive conversions?
What are some best practices for growing an engaged email list as a creator or solopreneur?
How can segmenting your email list from the beginning help you serve hyper-relevant content?
What elements go into an effective email subject line and preview text to boost open rates?
How frequently should you send emails to your list and what are ways to let subscribers choose their preferred cadence?
What are the key components that go into a highly converting email design and layout?
How can you encourage email replies from subscribers to boost your sender reputation and deliverability?
Should you proactively remove inactive subscribers from your email list or try to re-engage them first?
How is AI poised to transform email marketing and make solopreneurs more competitive?
Why are referral programs to grow an email list potentially problematic compared to direct opt-ins?
How can looking at email open rate trends over time provide a useful success metric despite factors like auto-opens?
What factors should you consider when determining the ideal number of emails for a welcome series?
Why is email marketing an effective channel for creators that levels the playing field compared to social media algorithms?
What are current email image-to-text ratio best practices for optimizing both deliverability and click rates?
Why is the quality and engagement of your email list more important than the total quantity of subscribers?
How can having unengaged subscribers and spam complaints severely damage your long-term email deliverability?
What are the dangers of purchasing email lists rather than building an organic list of genuine opt-ins?
Why is it critical to establish your own sending domain for email marketing to protect your sender reputation?
Episode summary
Here is a short intro based on the context of the transcript, matching the tone, style and format of the provided example:
Martha Bitar is the co-founder and CEO of Flodesk, an email marketing platform that has grown to over $30M ARR while bootstrapped.
In this episode of Uploading, Martha shares how she built Flodesk while working full-time at another company. She dives into email marketing best practices for creators, including how to design high-converting emails, grow your subscriber list, determine email frequency, and leverage AI to optimize your email strategy.
Lead Magnet Idea
Here is a lead magnet idea that feels valuable, is visually appealing, and includes a clear call to action that encourages further engagement with your content, product or service, based on the transcript provided:
"Supercharge Your Email Marketing: Essential Tips & Templates from FloDeskCEO Martha Bitar"
Description
This lead magnet is an actionable guide designed to help creators and solopreneurs take their email marketing to the next level. Drawing on the expert insights shared by Martha Bitar, CEO of Flodesk, in the podcast episode, it could be packaged as a visually stunning PDF that covers the key aspects of creating effective email campaigns.
Components:
Introduction to Modern Email Marketing
Overview of why email marketing is crucial for creators and solopreneurs, echoing Martha's key points from the episode.
Building Your Email List
Proven strategies for growing your subscriber list, including creating freebies and opt-in forms.
Examples from the episode illustrating how to identify your audience's needs and craft irresistible lead magnets.
Crafting Compelling Emails
Breakdown of the essential components of high-converting emails: subject lines, preview text, design, and copy.
Visual examples showcasing Flodesk's unique features, like custom fonts and brand-optimized templates.
Automation & Segmentation Strategies
Step-by-step guide to setting up email automation workflows for nurturing subscribers.
Tips on segmenting your list based on subscriber preferences and behavior, as discussed in the episode.
Optimizing for Deliverability & Engagement
Best practices for maintaining a healthy email list and improving deliverability rates.
Advice on finding the right email frequency and cleaning your list, based on Martha's recommendations.
Bonus: Email Marketing Checklist & Templates
A printable checklist covering the essential steps for launching a successful email campaign.
Customizable email templates for various purposes (welcome series, sales, nurturing, etc.) designed with Flodesk's signature style.
Visual Appeal:
Showcase Flodesk's stunning email designs throughout the guide, emphasizing the importance of visual branding.
Use eye-catching colors, fonts, and graphics that align with your brand identity.
Include pull quotes from the episode to highlight key takeaways and add visual interest.
Call to Action:
Download Instruction:
Clear steps on how to access the full guide and bonus resources.
Invitation to Connect:
Encourage readers to join your email list for more exclusive content and tips.
Invite them to follow you on social media or join your online community for ongoing support.
Special Offer:
Provide a limited-time discount code for Flodesk or your own product/service to incentivize action.
Example CTA:
"Ready to elevate your email game? Download the 'Supercharge Your Email Marketing' guide now and access the bonus templates to start creating stunning, high-converting campaigns today! For more insider tips, be sure to subscribe to our newsletter and join our thriving community of creators. As a special gift, use the code 'PODCAST20' for 20% off your first month of Flodesk!"
By providing valuable insights and ready-to-use resources, this lead magnet not only educates your audience but also positions you and Flodesk as go-to experts in the field of email marketing for creators and solopreneurs.
5 reasons why with a PS
Here are the key takeaways from Martha Bitar, CEO of Flodesk, on how to grow your newsletter in 2025:
Build your email list as soon as possible
Email marketing is a tried and true channel, not dependent on changing algorithms
Create a branded form to collect emails, even before having a website
Offer a valuable freebie in exchange for email addresses
Segment your audience from the start
Allow subscribers to self-select their interests when opting in
Create different lead magnets and email journeys for each segment
Cross-promote relevant content to boost engagement
Make your emails hyper-relevant and on-brand
Stand out in crowded inboxes with beautiful, branded email designs
Use custom fonts, layouts optimized for conversion, and compelling visuals
Tell a human story that resonates with your specific audience
Send emails consistently, but not too frequently
Once per week is a good cadence for most businesses
Let subscribers choose their preferred frequency
Re-engage inactive subscribers before cleaning your list
Embrace AI to level the playing field
Use AI-powered agents to optimize your email strategy
Gain insights from aggregated data to send the right content
Stay human and authentic as AI-generated emails become common
The email inbox is one marketing channel where solopreneurs can still compete with big brands.
No one can pay their way to the top.
By building an engaged list, segmenting strategically, and sending valuable, branded content, you can make email marketing your most profitable channel.
Focus on quality over quantity and nurture real relationships.
That's how Flodesk grew to $30M ARR while staying bootstrapped.
P.S. Want to dive deeper into email marketing best practices for 2025 and beyond? Check out our free private Uploading community to connect with Martha and other top content creators. Only serious applicants will be accepted. Apply here: castmagic.io/uploading-community
Episode Notes
SUMMARY OF EPISODE
In this episode of "Uploading...", Blaine is joined by Martha Bitar, CEO of Flodesk, an email marketing platform that has rapidly grown into an 8-figure ARR business. Martha shares her journey of building Flodesk while working full-time at Honeybook and now leads a remote-first company serving creators and companies worldwide.
The discussion covers various aspects of email marketing, including:
Growing your newsletter and email list
Crafting engaging subject lines and preview text
Optimizing email design for conversion
Segmenting your audience for targeted messaging
Determining the right email frequency
Leveraging AI to enhance email marketing strategies
Martha provides practical tips and insights based on Flodesk's data and her experience working with creators. She emphasizes the importance of email as an owned channel that is not subject to the whims of social media algorithms.
BULLET POINTS OF KEY TOPICS
Building an Email List with Lead Magnets [7:15]
Martha discusses the importance of building an email list as early as possible, even before having a website. She suggests creating a freebie or lead magnet that addresses your audience's top questions and provides value in exchange for their email address.
Crafting Engaging Subject Lines and Preview Text [20:02]
The key to high open rates lies in the subject line, while the preview text serves as the hook to draw readers in. Martha advises keeping subject lines clear and testing what works best for your specific audience. Preview text should build curiosity and make it impossible for people not to open the email.
Optimizing Email Design for Conversion [29:31]
Martha explains how Flodesk's email builder helps users create beautiful, on-brand emails that are optimized for conversion. She shares a typical email flow that includes a compelling hero image, a clear call-to-action button, and a text paragraph that tells a story. The goal is to grab attention and drive action within the first few seconds.
Segmenting Your Audience for Targeted Messaging [14:19]
With many solopreneurs having multiple offerings, Martha recommends segmenting your email list based on subscriber preferences and interests. This allows you to send targeted content and cross-promote relevant products or services without overwhelming your audience.
Determining the Right Email Frequency [35:43]
While once a week is generally a good starting point, Martha suggests letting your audience choose their preferred email frequency through subscriber preferences. This ensures you're meeting their needs without risking unsubscribes or spam complaints.
Leveraging AI to Enhance Email Marketing [40:44]
Martha is excited about the potential of AI to help solopreneurs operate like larger businesses. She envisions AI agents that can optimize email marketing strategies, clean up subscriber lists, and provide personalized recommendations based on aggregated data. However, she believes the human touch will remain essential in creating authentic content.
Timestamps Trial
Here is a timestamped overview of the episode, using the attached transcript as the source and matching the format and style of the provided example:
00:00 Martha's background and founding Flodesk
01:27 Problems with existing email marketing platforms
05:09 Flodesk's rapid growth to 8-figure ARR
06:00 Key elements of a standout email
07:15 Tips for growing an email list
11:40 Segmentation strategies for email lists
16:28 Comparing Flodesk to other email platforms
20:02 Anatomy of an effective email subject line
21:51 Ideal content and email frequency
26:06 Strategies for re-engaging inactive subscribers
29:07 AI's potential to transform email marketing
31:27 Best ways to maintain email deliverability
34:54 The value of an engaged email list
35:43 Q&A on referral programs and open rates
49:57 Q&A on welcome series and image-to-text ratio
54:53 Prioritizing email list quality over quantity
57:02 Wrap-up and where to find Flodesk online
About the Episode
Here is a teaser for the episode in the requested style and format:
Martha Bitar is the CEO and co-founder of Flodesk, an email marketing platform that has rapidly grown to an 8-figure ARR business while remaining bootstrapped. She built Flodesk while working full-time and now leads a remote-first company serving creators and businesses worldwide.
In this episode of "Uploading...," Martha shares the story behind Flodesk and how they identified an opportunity to disrupt the long-standing email marketing space by focusing on modern day needs like beautiful, on-brand design. She discusses email marketing best practices for creators looking to grow their business, including building an engaged subscriber list, crafting compelling subject lines and preview text, and optimizing email design and content for maximum impact.
Martha also shares her perspective on the future of email marketing, especially how AI will enable solopreneurs to operate at the level of much larger businesses. She emphasizes the unique advantages of email as a channel for creators and the importance of prioritizing engaged subscribers over raw list size. Listeners will come away with actionable strategies and insights to level up their email game in 2025 and beyond.
Show Notes
Episode Summary
Martha Bitar is the CEO and co-founder of Flodesk, the rapidly-scaling email marketing platform beloved by creators for its design-first approach. In this episode of Uploading, Martha joins Blaine to share her journey building Flodesk to $30 million ARR while working a full-time job, and dives deep into what really works for growing your newsletter and building a lasting personal brand in 2025.
Episode Notes
About the Episode:
Martha Bitar has helped shape Flodesk into a leader in modern email marketing by focusing on creators’ needs for customization, standout design, and conversion. Martha and Blaine unpack the pain points that legacy email platforms left unsolved, and how Flodesk created viral traction with a design-driven, user-friendly ethos.
Martha openly reveals the exact strategies Flodesk and its customers use to grow highly engaged email lists—before even building a website—why segmentation and automation matter even for solopreneurs, and what every creator should know about subject lines, deliverability, and content optimization.
You’ll also get tactical advice on lead magnets, segmentation, list cleaning, frequency, and a look ahead at AI’s role in email marketing for solo businesses.
Today, we'll cover:
How Flodesk grew into an 8-figure, bootstrapped business in a crowded space
The evolving role of branding, design, and segmentation in successful email marketing
The biggest mistakes creators make when starting a newsletter
Essential tactics for rapid email list growth in 2025
How to re-engage dormant subscribers and stay out of the spam folder
What’s next for email and AI (and what to ignore in the hype!)
What You'll Learn
How to build and scale a newsletter—even before having a website
The importance of design for email conversions (with case studies)
How to segment your audience for deeper engagement and sales
Creating and optimizing lead magnets that actually convert
The anatomy of high-performing emails, from subject to signature
How to clean your list without losing core subscribers
New rules for email deliverability and spam in 2025
Where AI will (and won’t) disrupt email workflows for solopreneurs
Timestamps
00:00 – Announcing the Uploading Community
00:41 – Introducing Martha Bitar & Flodesk’s origin story
04:14 – Why design is no longer optional for emails (and Stripe case study)
06:00 – The power of early list-building & “lead magnets that work”
10:39 – Multi-lead magnet segmentation strategies
12:52 – Segmentation for solopreneurs (“the octopus” creator model)
14:19 – Workflow automations: turning subscribers into superfans
16:37 – Map of the current email platform landscape
18:20 – Why fun & simplicity win out over “legacy email”
20:02 – Subject lines, previews, and open rates (“it’s all about the hook”)
22:45 – Avoiding spam & deliverability pitfalls
25:03 – Conversion & clarity: buttons, calls-to-action, and copywriting
29:31 – Flodesk’s builder & best practices for beautiful, converting emails
33:03 – Translating viral content strategies from social to email
35:11 – Content frequency: what data really says about sending often
38:02 – List cleaning: win back or remove disengaged contacts?
41:21 – How to handle typos, fake emails, and deliverability risks
43:20 – Where AI is taking email for solo creators in the next wave
46:47 – Community Q&A: referral programs, welcome series, images vs text, and more
Quotes
On the new rules for creator newsletters:
"Branding is just part of the modern business. Every single email—it can't just hit the inbox, it has to stand out, it has to engage from the beginning. It has to be hyper optimized for conversion. Text-based without any of your brand just doesn't cut it anymore." — Martha Bitar, 00:03:30 → 00:04:14
On building your list before you even have a website:
"We’re seeing that a lot of businesses now start with just an email list. You can create a form, share it everywhere—your link in bio, send it to people, even put it on an iPad in a physical business—and you’re off building your audience before anything else.” — Martha Bitar, 00:06:15 → 00:06:44
On segmentation for solopreneurs:
"It’s not the old retail model of 'Do you want blue or jeans?'—it's 'What part of my business is this person interested in?' That lets you serve hyper relevant content and grow, even as you add new projects or brands." — Martha Bitar, 00:12:52 → 00:14:19
On subject lines + open rates:
"Your open rate is entirely dependent on your subject line—your content only matters once they've opened it. Subject lines should be clear, preview lines should be the hook." — Martha Bitar, 00:20:02 → 00:22:29
On list quality vs. quantity:
"Never, always the quality… I'd absolutely rather have a highly engaged, small list than a big one that risks spam or deliverability. That’s your reputation—that’s your business.” — Martha Bitar, 00:54:53 → 00:56:39
On the future of AI in email:
“Imagine if you could chat with your software—‘What should my email strategy be?’—and an agent just helps you do it better. Solopreneurs are going to have strategist-level help for anything, totally leveling the playing field.” — Martha Bitar, 00:43:27 → 00:45:44
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