Yeah. I mean, this is has been, I guess, the the threat of my life is how can you integrate your personal life with your work because we spend so much time at work.

Hi. This is Paul Zoellizer, and welcome to the Awarepreneurs podcast. Podcast. On this show, we dive deep into wisdom from some of the world's leading social entrepreneurs. Our goal is to help you increase your positive impact, your profitability, and your quality of life. Before we get into today's topic, I have one request. If you could hit subscribe and do a review on favorite podcast app, it helps more people learn how to have a positive impact through values based business. Thanks so much.

Today, I'm thrilled to introduce you to Sandra Nomota, and our topic is vegan marketing success stories. At 25 years old, Sandra founded Conscious Public Relations Inc, an award winning virtual agency that certified as a B Corp twice, not just once. After a decade in business, she wrote the only public relations guide you'll ever need in 2019. More recently, she pivoted to working with vegan businesses and authors, and her new book is called Vegan Marketing Success Stories. Sandra, welcome to the show.

Thanks so much, Paul. So honored to be here.

You're doing such great work, and I'm thrilled to let our audience know about it. But before we get into your work, conscious PR and vegan businesses and all that stuff, like, what would somebody need to know about you and a little bit about your back stories for, like, where you are today to make sense?

Sure. I am in Vancouver, BC, Canada on the unceded traditional territories of the Coast Salish peoples, Squamish, Musqueam, and Tsleil Waututh First Nations. I was born in Montreal, so on the East Coast at two 2nd generation Canadians' immigrant parents who, yeah, who came came their way to to the East Coast of Canada and then found it's it's really cold out here. Let's try the West Coast.

And so It's a little warmer in Vancouver, isn't it?

Yeah. So 4 months after I was born, my my family moved here and my brother was born, and this is where I called.

And let's talk a little bit about your journey. So as, like, a young adult and making your way, you decided to go into PR and particularly like PR for good. Talk to us a little bit about like, how did you get into that work and why PR?

Yeah. I honestly stumbled into public relations sort of by accident. I got my degree in English literature and film studies in 2005 from UBC and honestly didn't didn't know what I was gonna do with that. I knew I had some idea of, oh, maybe it would be cool to to do marketing for films because Vancouver is where a lot of films get shot. And, at the end of yeah, right right around the time I was graduating, I got or the the film department administrator got a fax for an internship at a public relations firm and emailed that over to me and said, I think you'd be great for this. And so I I didn't know much about what public relations entailed, but I went in that little company. I went from intern to assistant to the partners within about a year and a half. And, yeah, just learned everything about the practice that I know now from that from that job that we did a lot of event planning, media relations, and and that part of that part of it, the storytelling part of it really fascinated me.

And so when I left that company because I knew I I I really did not wanna be an an event planner and my intuition sort of told me, you know, if you apply at other PR firms, you don't have control over who you get to work with. And I saw my sister, my sister had become a partner of a small business herself, so I thought, I can do that too. So so that's how I started my, yeah, my own little publicity business, which then became Conscious PR.

Nice. What's the facts? No. I'm kidding. I heard of that one.

Remember that.

Right? I'm kidding. So you really thought a lot. We're gonna get into the stories that you're amplifying today. But, like, pretty young in your adulthood, you said the stories we tell I don't know. This is my version of it. If I'm putting words in your mouth that don't taste good, spit them out. Right? But it seems like you got really passionate about the stories that you wanted to tell pretty young into your career. Is that fair to say?

Well, I learned right away that yeah. When you when you when you work for somebody else, so this this particular PR firm, you just you get the work that the client wants. And some of that might be great work, other work might not be and and and may not jive with your values. And so I learned that lesson about 4 years into running my own business, and I initially went after clients that I thought would be fun. Fashion, beauty, lifestyle, events, things that I, yeah, that just kind of I thought were cool and fun in my personal life and then I realized like my values started to bubble up. I started just, again, kind of by accident, networking with people who we now put a word to, social entrepreneurs, people in the sustainability realm. And I realized these are my values. And so that's why I did a rebrand.

So, I re it wasn't initially called conscious PR, but that's the name that I, that I chose in 2012 with the intention to connect and and house more socially and environmentally responsible clients or businesses as clients, and I was successful in doing that when I did that regret.

Yeah. And if you go back, I I started my business 16 years ago, and I was just telling somebody that story this morning who's also, she's in the health equity space. And I said 16 years ago, we didn't even know what to call it. Was it social entrepreneurship or John Macchiat? Just not too long before I got you know, after I got started, he came out with a book called Conscious Capitalism. You know? And there was Business For Good, and the b corp movement started. Like, we didn't even know how to find each other back then and what the social enterprise, right, and what was a nonprofit, and it it was such a mishmash. Right? And but what I think you have some embodied experience, and I'd love for you to share. Talk to us a little bit.

What what would you say to that person who's in the phase of their career when you were? Let's say they're, like, coming to the end of a college experience or their mid twenties, and they have a a little bit of experience under their belt, and the work that's coming their way is not necessarily of their choosing, right, because either they started and these were the gigs they could get or they're still kinda working for somebody else and they have a side hustle. Talk to us a little bit about that moment of like, oh, wait. My values use the words, my values are bubbling up. What would you say to somebody who's in that situation that you were in, let's call it, 11 or 12 years ago? Like, wow, wait. This really matters, and I've gotta find a way for this to be more prominent in the work that I'm doing. What would you say to that person who's just like there now? Like, ouch. I I can't just do things like your version was fashion and movies and fun. It was like fun, but then it wasn't fun and the values came more prominent.

What would you say to somebody who's right there right now?

Well, I feel like a lot of people are, are, are there in that place, whether they are in jobs that they're not satisfied with and they know that, but they don't know otherwise. Like like, I can't even fathom quitting this job and try to look for another one. But, yeah, I have a lot of young folks especially who connect with me on LinkedIn and and they whether it's whether they're vegan and they say, I I want a job at a vegan company because because I'm vegan and it doesn't make sense for me to to work for anybody else or or, oh, yeah, folks who are like, I yeah. How do I find more sustainable or socially conscious companies to work with? And so I I tell them they're out there. So they're they're and and folks like b corp, they have actual job sites where they have they specifically advertise for jobs so that they can connect with folks, again, who align with their values. So I I feel like the resources are there. Folks just have to reach out to somebody like me or you or just know about those resources to be able to tap into them and and, yeah, really know how to take action with that inkling that they have because a lot of people, I think, go through life thinking, I don't know otherwise. You know, like a a better company, a better company culture, what is that? Like, that's out there.

And so, yeah, I think it's just a matter of knowing that, yes, it's possible and then and reaching out to people who might be able to connect you with the resources.

Great suggestions. Thanks for that. So you started conscious PR, right, conscious public relations, and you started to really put your values first. Talk to us a little bit about, like, what did you what what was that transition like, and what did you find out about what works really working with companies where values were more prominent or at least more aligned with you and I and the people who listen to this podcast? What what works when you're telling these kind of stories?

I think what worked for me is just just sharing, yeah, what I was looking for. It was it when I when I did the rebrand, it was quite like, I never put myself out there and my values out there so so clearly and yeah, and on my website and I think there's some hesitation when you do that, right, because your values are very personal to you, But then you realize you're really not alone because then you start attracting those clients to, yeah, they hire you because you have you have shared values.

Yes.

And so I yeah. I just found, wow. Like, why didn't I do this before? But I I know it was because I was too young to realize that or maybe too afraid to, yeah, to know that that wasn't sharing, openly sharing my values like that. And then the other part of it, I think, was really tapping into the community. So like you said, there's so many there are different communities using different different words, but but we all kinda believe in the same things. And so what I did was I actually applied for The Forum's mentorship program. So The Forum is specifically for female entrepreneurs here in Canada, and they have a mentorship program and I asked specifically for somebody who was in this, you know, social venture circle who could connect me with these types of clients. And so she really helped me for about 6 months to to say, okay, there's the B Corp community, 1% for the planet, Social Venture Institute conference, you know, continue consider attending those.

Local VC. Yeah. She she really said these are the circles you need to be in if you want those types of clients. And that was, I think, the next yeah. Once I was in those circles, I found, yeah, Those were the kind of conversations I wanted to have.

Awesome. So so a couple things I'd highlight. One one is I really appreciate you using the word afraid. Right? Because I think fear holds us back so often. Like if I like put out my values and and really start to plant a flag, this is who I wanna work with, that will leave out some significant percent. Like, there's a whole bunch of businesses who don't wanna hire Paul Zellieder, right, Because of my values. And because of this, I've leaned in for 16 years now, pretty heavy in the realm of impact. And, and if that's not very important to somebody or they're not ready to talk about it, I'm not sure that I'm the best you know, I'll do what I can if I can help you, but I'm probably not the best person.

Fortunately, there's many more companies now, but even back then, I didn't starve when I planted my flag. Right? And now it's even more robust, a conversation of companies that either have or leaders who want to have their values and have sustainability and impact in various ways be more central to the work they're doing. So so if you're afraid, like, I hear you. I've been there, Sandra. Thank you for saying you've been there and it's okay to be afraid. And like, if nothing changes until something changes, like, we can wait until we get 27 clients who are impact focused, but that's probably not gonna happen if we don't say we're looking for impact focus clients. Right? So at some point, you gotta take a deep breath. And and then the other thing I love I just wanna highlight.

I love that you said that you got mentorship from somebody who knew the space. And they said, go here and talk to this one, and here's a conference and try this. And there's the B Corp thing. And and many times when we're starting in this space, we just we don't know what we don't know. We don't know what communities already exist. We don't know where people are gathering. We don't know the vocabulary. I didn't know what a b corp was.

Right? So so I just love that you talked about mentorship, but not just in general, but mentorship of somebody who knew this space. So thanks for bringing that. I just wanna highlight that with my I call it my spiritual highlighter. Right? Just spiritually highlight what you said there, Sandra, because that's so important for anybody who is wanting to get into this space and really wanting to make a good livelihood doing it, like having a good mentor is just so important. So thanks for naming that.

Yeah. And and, actually, what's what's interesting about that that program is they initially partnered me up with, you know, I'll call them a digital marketing expert. Right? And and I asked that person, so here these are the types of clients I want, and he said, oh, I I can connect you with about 3 people that I know that are in that space. But beyond that, I don't know if I can help you. And so I had to take that extra step to to say, okay. I think you initially matched me with somebody who's, yeah, beneficial, but he's he himself is saying he he can't help me beyond that. So if this is gonna be a 6 month relationship, I look back in the Right.

Yeah. That's about 1 person every 2 months. Right?

Yeah. And so so yeah. So they they they really did match me with the person who was a great fit in the end.

Awesome. So you did conscious PR for a while. You were tell us about the first book. Eventually, you wrote a book, The Only Public Relations Guide You'll Ever Need. And tell us about that book you self published it. Like, what was it like to write your 1st book, get it out into the world, and how did that impact your trajectory in the work?

Yeah. It's interesting. So I wrote that book, I I think around 2017 and that was about a year before I had closed conscious PR. So in that time, I was sort of in another rebrand period or or being had the intention to do so. And and that was because in 2016, we saw a lot of the Canadian media outlets clothing and digital marketing was really becoming the primary way that companies were marketing themselves versus reaching out to traditional media, which was our main service. And so I saw this coming, said something's gotta change. And so initially, my plan was to partner up with other companies who had complimentary services to us, but still very value aligned. And then and then, yeah, kind of have this this nice, big conscious agency and that's around the when I I wrote wrote that book.

And so when I closed the business or made this decision to close the business in 2018, I had this book in hand. And I thought to myself, do I still wanna put this out there because I've I've already closed shop? I don't wanna take in clients that, you know, I can't service. But, again, my intuition said, you know, you always kinda wanted to be an author or the idea of that has has been Again, Again, promoted it for maybe a few months, didn't really make a big splash of it, but that gave me some great experience in self publishing for the book that I published last year and and of and, of course, the author clients that I work with now. So, yeah, while in itself it wasn't like, yeah, a a huge book that I did a big tour and to promote. It it served its purpose in in yeah. Not all no. Educating people about PR, it's still a very useful book. But but, yeah, just giving me experience and self publishing.

And shortly after that, as you mentioned, there is there con concurrently with that, there was a pivot and your vegan values really started to bubble up. It was another, like, I don't know, refinement or iteration of values. And you said, God, I really lean into you. You personally leaned into veganism and then professionally, like, I gotta do this. Is that fair to say?

Yeah. I mean, this is has been, I guess, the the threat of my life is how can you integrate your personal life with your work because we spend so much time at work. And so so, yeah, after I closed Conscious PR, I was like, I'm done with marketing, you know, 10 foot pole away from it. Let's explore other careers and so I was freelancing for a few local female female led companies locally. Yeah. Didn't think I was gonna stay in marketing and I sat down to meditate at the end of 2019 and that booming intuitive voice came to me and said, you're vegan now, and you'll always be writing. So put those 2 things together and and go. And and I know enough times, again, when I ignore my intuition, it just comes back to you louder.

So so that was the start of what was initially my copywriting business called The Content Doctor, and I've since let go of that title and I'm just using my name. But, yeah, that's how I started in 2020. I just tapped into my my network and said, hey. Who do you know who runs a vegan company that needs help with the written content? And, yeah, and just luckily got my 1st few clients right off the bat and was really successful despite the the pandemic happening that year. And then over the years, that has since expanded to other marketing tasks, to consulting, and then working with authors because during the pandemic, I had a lot of time on my hands and so I started taking courses in book editing and formatting and, yeah, and now authors are the other bucket of clients that I will pick. Nice.

I I'm not vegan. I'm vegetarian, but I am a obsessed gardener, like, obsessed. And listeners, you'll hear more about that obsession in another time. We're not talking about that today. But what I can say is I know that food kinda rose to people's awareness in a variety of ways. We saw more interest in veganism and vegetarianism, but just a general concept of food because at least for those of us in wealthier countries like Canada and the US, some of us were going to the store and seeing shelves that were empty in a way that might not have happened in our lifetime. There was conversation about shortages and food insecurity, and suddenly people are like, wow. Well, we kinda matters because I kinda like to eat, and there was there was a lot more attention.

So just what an interesting time for you to be leaning into that, right, when the world was kinda going through a enforced meditation retreat as the friend called it. Right?

Yeah. And the and the sourdough thing really is fascinating too. Like that has never been my interest, but, but yeah, just that the the the spark of interest in in creating.

I'm dub- I I I was into sourdough before, but, but I kinda got in. My sourdough died, and I had to get another one during the pandemic from the neighbor. Thank you, neighbor. But, yes, I am one of those guilty parties of of being on that trend. So so let's do this. Let's take a quick break, hear a word from our sponsor. When we come back, I wanna hear a couple of very specific success stories because that's a big part of the book. But before we do that, just a quick break and hear a word from our sponsor.

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And we were just about to say, Sandra, one of the things you do in the book, you don't just wanna talk about things in very, like 30,000 foot. You wanna say here's a couple of real examples of how vegan brands or vegan influencers have done really well with their marketing. So give us an example. Give us what what's one of the examples in the book that really, really inspires you.

Yeah. The one that that always stays with me is Meredith Marins. So she currently runs a company called Vegan Hospitality. But at the time so the story she submitted is about how she relocated to Aruba, where her husband's originally from, in 2016. And as a vegan, she did not find herself with very many options there. So not only in the supermarket, but at restaurants. And so she really took it upon herself to form relationships with chefs. So she she talked to chefs and said, hey, what can you make from here? And and as a result of, you know, helping chefs actually develop vegan dishes that are maybe even a separate menu that they they hadn't considered before, that brought in the demand for the food that was needed.

And then all of a sudden, supermarkets, yeah, started bringing in the the food that she needed. She also did things like teach cooking classes. Anytime there was an opportunity to talk to the media, she took that and and, yeah, and really started growing just the awareness of veganism on the island. And so she got some incredible media mentions, like she was in travel magazines and in every hotel room in Aruba, magazines that were in the back of airline seats flying there. And, yeah, and then over a number of years, she got the opportunity to partner with the Aruba Tourism Authority to sponsor an influencer trip. So they sponsored 6 American vegan influencers to come to the island, showed them a good time, and to this day, some of that content that they produced from that trip is still some of the top ranking when you Google vegan and aruba. And, of course, she started the social media accounts and used the hashtag vegan Aruba. And so because of this whole experience over a number of years, yeah, not only did Happy Cow name Aruba the most vegan friendly island in the Caribbean, but Nerdist started her company.

So this her company now, Vegan Hospitality, is is there to help other vegans become consultants in their area and do the kind of work that she was able to do in Aruba. And so I just love this story because not only is she, like, really using several marketing tactics here to really create change in one area, but she's one person, and she's 1 person who created this whole community of, people who may have been vegan in Aruba or or travelers coming coming into the country and who made a made a whole business out of it. So that's one of the ones that I that I remember.

What a great story. I can imagine like, I'm, I'm like, oh, I wanna go on that trip. Right. Can you imagine like people coming? And it's like the 1st big thing in a place where people love to go anyway, where veganism was, you know, being talked about and celebrated and having the support of, you know, highly visible people together with group who's trying to promote the Island to get more people to come to like, wow, what a fascinating conversation that must have been. It's so creative. That's a great story. Thanks for Yeah.

And then now it's on everybody's travel Yeah.

And then it lasted. That's the other thing. It wasn't just a one time thing, like how she leveraged to that. And then once that happened, how it's continued both for the island but also for her and her business. What an awesome story. That's great. So listeners, I'll put a link to vegan hospitality so you can go check it out. What what would be one other example of a story you tell in the book that's just completely inspiring to you?

Yeah. Another one that comes to mind is Goddess Garden. So Goddess Garden is a, vegan skincare and beauty company. It's always been vegan, and they've always been in involved in sustainability advocacy in some way. And so they found themselves involved in a reef safe campaign based in Hawaii because sunscreen is one of their popular most popular products. I believe they're one of the few brands that offer vegan and organic sunscreen. And so this this campaign was happening in Hawaii to educate people about the dangerous chemicals that are that are in very common in sunscreens that that actually damage coral. And they were the only company of its kind to actually get involved in this campaign, not even not even the other, you know, proper tone or whatever other mainstream brands that that that's that sell sunscreen.

And so they yeah. They they got some really great media coverage by supporting this campaign and I think close to 60,000 signatures, electronic signatures in the petition. And so when the, the bill passing, I think, yeah, finally happened in Hawaii and the CEO Nova Covington got invited to attend the announcement from the the conference and met the governor. He said, oh, so you're the woman who crashed our server.

So That is not a bad reputation to have. Right?

Yeah. And and they they did things like they gave away samples of the product. Again, just like a really great example of of advocacy and and again, just being a leader in the space when no other, you know, major brand would step up for this.

That's great story. So if somebody is a vegan or a plant based oriented person and they're just kind of taking a look and saying, you know, the way we're currently marketing is maybe not it. Maybe it's not horrible, but it's not crashing servers. It's not getting the kind of results that we want. When you sit down with a new client or even a prospective client, like, what what do you assess and what are some of the first steps that somebody is like, alright. It's time to up my marketing game. I'm getting inspired by these stories, but, like, I don't even know where to start. Where where would somebody start? And if you were to work with somebody, what are some of the things that you would start to assess before you even, like, finalize this might be a good strategy for that particular person?

Yeah. I usually don't even get to the point where, like, I I suggest here's a brand new strategy that you're you're you're not currently doing. Usually I take a look at what they're already doing. So so I've talked, you know, on a few other podcasts about before basics. Like, you've got a website and that seems very simple, but but I'm always surprised at the amount of companies that start their company on Instagram and that's it. They don't have a domain for their for their brand or anything and it's that's really important because you need a digital home. You know, if meta goes down for a day, which it has, that's your business. And so you never wanna rely on any social network, you know, as a website.

So number 1, have your website. Number 2, have a blog. And I know that doesn't sound very sexy, but it's just such a great way to increase your search engine optimization. If you don't know what SEO is, there are plenty of experts who can help you with that. But a blog is a great way to just increase the amount of content that you have on the website, you know, whether it's news announcements, you can transcribe podcasts that you that you've been on, you know, instructional things. There are tons of ideas about what you can use a blog. And then, of course, social media, that's kind of your content marketing machine. That's one way that you stay in touch with your audience.

And then number 4, emails, because, again, social me you know, social media go down or your website's under construction. You always wanna have another way to get in touch with your your audience and email. Email list is a great way to do that. So I always discuss those 4 basics first and see if there's any way that we can improve that. And then beyond that, it really depends on how much how how much more resources the company has, whether they need team members, they wanna start advertising something. So that depends on budget. But, yeah, what I've what I've noticed after now writing this book and having a lot of conversations is that the folks who not only are doing doing those basics, but they also have at least one unique marketing angle. So they've taken a tactic and used it in a way that's unique to their to their own brand and they're known for that.

And I find that the the most well known or popular companies, vegan or not, are using one particular marketing tactic. Yeah. In a really

Wonderful. I I love that. It sounds so simple, but yeah, I see it happen all the time where people say like, yeah, I I don't even have a website or like social media. Yeah. I know I'm supposed to do it, but I'm not. I talked to wonderful business owner 13 employed yesterday. It's like, yeah, I'm supposed to be on social, but I'm not. I wanna grow my business.

Like, great. You got a good website. Let's get you on social. Right? So I love that you're in it's so I think of my mentor who said using the reference of mindfulness, like, before we wanna change anything, like, if you're like, oh, I wanna, like, get super healthy in my diet and exercise plan. Great. Before we, like, change anything about what goes into your mouth, what are you doing right now? What are you eating in a day? Right? Like, before you change it, you know, how much are you walking? Are you going to the gym twice a week? Like, what is true right now before you change a single thing? So I love that you started there. That's a I think that's so important. And oftentimes, people otherwise, what happens is people time will often grasp at, like, what's new and shiny.

I don't know if this is your experience, but somebody out here like, oh, this person crashed the servers in Hawaii and da da da. So I gotta do what they do, but you don't even have a website or, like, you don't have Instagram or you you don't have any social. You you know? Right. Exactly. So, like, I love that you started there and just cosigning. Like, just please take that with demand listeners before you go and say, this is the shiny object in the moment, and I'm just going to replicate it, but then you don't have a website. No, no, no, no, no. Start with the basics and then think about how you can add and accelerate.

Yeah. Great.

Yeah. And I even think about my own business and and yeah. There's always something that you can tweak and do better. Like, I just kind of had the realization today. I've been on TikTok for almost a year and while it it's a great way to connect with people on the platform, it's not really bringing me a piece. And so I, you know, I probably won't be as active on it going into next year because I've now tried it for this long of a time. So so, yeah, you you've gotta give that that give it time. If anything anything you try something new or do differently, give it time and assess whether it's it's helping you reach your goals before you then abandon it and try something completely new.

100%. It it can change. You've talked about several of your pivots. Back in the day, I started in 2008. I got on Twitter and it was incredibly helpful to my networking in my business, And then it stopped being so much. And then it was things that META owned Facebook and Instagram. And then I started working with more experienced social entrepreneurs and leaders who wanted to have impact in larger companies. And they don't spend time on Instagram and Facebook for the most part.

The decision makers are on LinkedIn. And I hated LinkedIn, but I needed to be on LinkedIn. And then LinkedIn changed, and now it doesn't suck anymore. And I actually love LinkedIn. It's my favorite social platform, partially because who I'm trying to connect with and partially because I get the most results. I I just I when I put it so I share that to just say, you know, it's really important to assess where you are now and with an insight of who are you trying to connect with, what's gonna move the needle on your goals. And you may have started somewhere, but maybe just like you and I both have pivoted several times, Sandra, like where you want to invest now might be really different than where you were investing even a year ago, but certainly 5 years ago. And sometimes people just kind of get on rinse and repeat, and they're like, but it's not working as well as it used to.

Right? And and this kind of basic assessment, again, just love that you started there. Let's see what you're doing now and who you're trying to connect with and what's working and what's not, and then we can make some changes. So, yeah, just cosign that a 100%.

Yeah. Twitter, I I I just wanna plug. Yeah. Twitter was my favorite platform and I, you know, I'm still on it, but just the the types of people that are now on there are different than than what it used to be and all. I feel like there was a huge migration to Instagram. So Twitter's not the greatest place to be for me right now, but, but yeah, I agree with you on LinkedIn. Yeah.

Yeah, totally. Cool. So talk to us a little bit about like, just like the social entrepreneur space has changed. The vegan space has changed. Like, like if you go back even 10 years ago, certainly like 20 or 30 years ago, the image of who was vegan and what that meant and did people even know what vegan is, You know, let's just say 10 years ago and where we are now, it it shifted, and there's more discussion. There's more it's a little bit more in the mainstream. No. Is that fair to say? Like, it seems like there's been a shift as somebody in that space.

Talk to us about, like, what's happened in the past 10 years, and and it does seem like there's more conversation about veganism. Is that fair to say?

I think so. And so I'm five and a half years in now. So and I started the journey 11 years ago, so I was certainly watching, seeing what was happening. But, yeah, I do see, like, only in the the last maybe 5 years has there been, like, number 1, just a lot of companies coming into the space with whether it's meat alternatives, fashion, materials. Just, yeah, just, just a lot of investment in the space. And then I think whereas maybe when I started, you know, the word vegan kind of was synonymous with with hippie or granola or Birkenstock wearing. Yeah. But now we have vegans that are vegan influencers and all types too from entrepreneurs to fitness influencers.

And and I love that because we need diversity. Every every every group or movement needs diversity for being vegans. And so the more we show that that veganism is is not just one side or a stereotype, yeah, the the the more that people will consider, yeah, moving into the lifestyle. So, yeah, definitely a lot more different than than even when I started.

And you seem like somebody who's fairly comfortable talking about the personal and the intersection with your business. So if you wouldn't mind, like what led to you personally deciding to become a vegan?

Oh, so that started with Earthlings for me at the end of 2007. So in the interestingly, my vegan journey has coincided with the the opening and the closing of of my PR business. So that was right around that time I saw Earthlings, and that impacted me very deeply. And and I, yeah, I thought, alright. Let's let's start with meat. And I didn't really set a goal for myself in terms of, like, okay. I wanna be vegan by 5 years. I kind of just let my body and my habits dictate my direction.

So it took me about 2 years to eliminate meat from my diet. For a good number of years, I was technically pescatarian, so still eating some seafood and eggs and dairy on on the weekend. So I really, during the week, taught myself to cook vegan or vegetarian. So what we call now whole food plant based, you know, that type of, diet. And then when I went on my honeymoon with my husband to New York City in 2017, ate at Iron Chef Morimoto's restaurant, had one of the best seafood meals of my life, and I told myself, it's not gonna get any better than this. So I think I'm gonna leave seafood on a high note, and that was it. So that was 2017. And then I was a vegetarian for for just only another year after that.

So still was eating some dairy. And then for health reasons, I gave that up because, for a number of years, not related to my dietary transitions, I've had just this undiagnosed digestive, these horrible digestive symptoms that my health team has not been able to to to pinpoint. And I've done many, many tests, and they'll all come out as normal. So, yeah, I just went back to my naturopath in 2018 after a really bad bout of acid reflux and vomiting in the middle of the night and told her, you know, I need more answers here. So she said, let's do a food sensitivity test, which I had never done before. And so I did this test, and it said I was sensitive to dairy among other things. And so I did a 4 month cleanse of those those items. And then at the end of that that 4 months, I I thought to myself, oh, I I was able to do 4 months without dairy, so I guess I can be vegan now.

And so so yeah. So so that was sort of the date that it count from spring 2018. And, of course, once you do diet, everything else becomes easier. So avoiding it in your household products, your clothing, and then, yeah, and then just kind of blipping out the the movement.

So when you look ahead, like, as somebody who's been tracking this for a while, both personally and professionally, like, where do you think the vegan vegan movement is going and particularly in the entrepreneur space like vegan entrepreneurs and vegan businesses? Where do you think that trend might be headed?

I think we will continue to see it grow, perhaps not as fast as we were hoping because I think there was a lot of excitement with Beyond Meat going public and OE as well, and Impossible Foods has been, you know, another big brand on the scene. But as much as the investment has go has been going in, there have also been a lot of closures. And so I think, you know, just with any business, you just really have to be smart about how you use that investment. And and I don't know how to say it, but, yes, you might have initial initial success early on, but you you also need to maintain that success. I think that's the challenge here. You know, there's a lot of animal eyed people who like to to point at whenever Beyond Meat dips in its stocks, and and we have to remember, the vegan those thing is not just about that 1 big company. There are a lot of us small to medium sized businesses that are are that economy and and we need to sustain, yeah, sustain the economy so that we can continue to provide these products that that help people eat more plant based. And so I think, well, yeah, we we are continuing to see investments, but I think those of us who are founders and business owners just need to be smart about how we how we, operate and and use that investment.

So you just came out with the book or fairly recently came out with the book. And, like, what's next? You you don't seem like somebody who, like, sits around and waits for moss to grow on your stone. It seems like you are somebody who has visions and you've done a lot in a relatively short amount of time. When you look ahead 2 years, 3 years, 5 years, what are some of the things that are on your radar?

Yeah. One of the things I'm excited about this year is is just getting into ghost writing. That was a goal of mine. Yeah. To just start start ghost writing for other authors and I'd and work I'm on my 2nd book now and would love work with with more vegan authors on that. I don't I'm not limited to to just vegan authors, but, of course, that's one way that I can continue to grow this movement. So really excited about just continuing that service. And, yeah, a lot of people has have asked me if I'm working on a 3rd book and I do have ideas for a book, but because of my film background and all of these documentaries that have been so influential to me in my vegan journey, something in me is saying you gotta try documentaries.

Mm-mm. You heard it here first, folks.

Yeah. Yeah. And if it's true, I've I haven't shared this publicly, but you can always turn a documentary into a book as well. I've seen, so Brian Catman released Meet Me Halfway, so m e a t. He's the leader of the reducetarian diet or movement and he released that documentary last year with a follow-up book. And so as I was thinking about this, I saw him do it. I was like, oh, he did it. So so that's always a possibility.

But yeah. And I do have some ideas for some documentaries. So if anyone's listening and you invest in this kind of stuff, feel free to reach out.

Yeah. Feel free. I'll I'll be happy to put you in touch with Sandra if you don't have her contact, and we'll have your website and all sorts of ways to get ahold of you, Instagram, anything at LinkedIn, if you like LinkedIn. That'll all be in the show notes. Yeah. Cool. Sandra, I could hang out with you all day, but I know you're super busy and our listeners are too. If there was something you were hoping we were going to get to, and we haven't touched on it yet, or there's something you wanna leave our listeners with as we start to say goodbye, what would that be?

Yeah. I mean, 1 question I get asked is do you help folks transition to to be a vegan company if they aren't yet? And the answer is no. I I don't do those services, but I've got a list of folks who do. And there are between consultants, companies, nonprofits. I've got a list of folks that that can help with that transition, and I actually talk about a few examples in my book. So although I can't help help you with that, I can point you, directly to those folks. Of course, if you need help with marketing or writing a book, I can help you there. And if you're interested in in just, yeah, becoming more vegan or moving along that plant based spectrum, I've got a list of resources that have helped me from films to books to other influencers.

That's all on my website on our List Love page just with my name, so sandranomoto.com.

Well, Sandra, thank you so much for being on the show today. I really appreciate it.

I appreciate you. Thanks so much, Paul.

Well, listeners, all kinds of links in the show notes. Please go buy the book, go check it out, tell your friends, go to Sandra's website, Go find her on social media and do what we do here at Amplify. Great work. So before we go, I wanna just remind you, we love listeners suggest the topics and guests. We now I I I don't know why other podcast hosts don't do this, but we now literally get the majority of our guests from you, somebody who's listening or somebody who's been on the show. So I love that. Most hosts don't do that, but I love it. Please, you've got an idea, go to the Awarepreneur's website.

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