Storytelling in the impact space is a really hot topic. But one of the things I love about our guest this week, Tamika Brickman, is that Tamika originally was a journalist and now is helping impact brands with storytelling through PR and video and other modalities. Tamika has a sense of how to do storytelling with much more nuance and much more granularity than many other folks I'm hearing using the term. So she's not just talking about it in theory or in concept, but has really granular strategies from many, many years being in the storytelling space that she's gonna share with you on this episode. Hi. This is Paul Zellizer, and welcome to the Awarepreneurs podcast. On this show, we dive deep into wisdom from some of the world's leading social entrepreneurs. Our goal is to help you increase your positive impact, your profitability, and your quality of life.

Before we get into today's topic, I have one request. If you could go to your favorite podcast app, do a review, hit subscribe. It makes a difference. It helps more people find these incredible impact stories and learn how to have positive impact through a values based business. Thanks so much for considering it. Today, I am thrilled to introduce you to Tamika Bickham, and our topic is the art of social impact storytelling. Tamika is the founder and CEO of TB Media Group. She's an award winning journalist and a podcast host who helps CSR and ESG leaders build brand trust and loyalty through nonfiction video production.

Tamika, welcome to the show.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to to dive in and have this chat today.

I'm super excited about it. I was doing my research and I was thinking, you know, you wanna talk about one of those, like, lingo things that people toss around. Right? We're supposed to tell stories in this and not just present facts and make emotional connections. But one of the things we talked about before we hit record is like, okay. Let's get it out of concept, and let's, like, how do you really do that in some granular way, not just use the word storytelling 27,000 times and said, great, my job is over. So Tamika's an expert in this. I'm super happy to have you here. But before we get into that, like, real granular part of the episode, Tamika, just give our listeners a little bit of back story about your journey, the work you've done, and kinda where you're coming from.

Yeah. No. Absolutely. And thank you for that. I mean, you definitely teed it up perfectly, But, you know, I feel like I was into storytelling before it became this buzzword because I actually started in a little bit of a different path in broadcast journalism. So I was always drawn to stories as a consumer myself as a kid growing up and really just interested to uncovering, investigating. And I always got sucked into learning from different perspectives that were different just different from my own. And that was really a big reason behind wanting to pursue broadcast journalism, and that was really what I did for the first part of my career working in small markets where I started in Montgomery, Alabama and then coming back to where I am now in South Florida.

But I said, hey. A lot of what I do is the feel good stories in our communities. It was a lot of crime, especially if you know Miami Fort Lauderdale market.

Hey. I live in Albuquerque. Come on. Like, freaking bad. Right? We know something about that. You know a little bit. You know a little bit, though.

But it it was it was tough, and I felt like, hey. I have these skills as far as visual storytelling, pulling interviews and sound, and real stories about real people together. How can I use this for good? Which ultimately led me to where I am and what I'm doing now.

Yeah. So give us a little sense. We'll we'll get to what you're doing now. But give us a little sense, like, what were some of the stories? You you mentioned crime. Like, was there a story that really stood out in your career that was really powerful or was real you were renowned for people might have known your name as a journalist from that part of your career?

Oh, I mean, there's there's a lot that stand out, and I wouldn't say it was it was really along the the lines of crime. It was just by nature of the market, a lot of what I ended up covering. I will say, actually, I had the opportunity to work on some more in-depth sweeps pieces. And if you're in the TV world, you know, sweeps is like a ratings period. I don't even know if sweeps is really a big thing anymore. But and that's when you'll you might do more promotable type of stories. And I did a story called Living in Poverty, which was actually, at the time, this was in 2011, 2012. 1 in 3 children in West Alabama lived in poverty, which is same as a 3rd world nation, and it was something that a lot of people did not realize was so bad in right in our backyard.

So that really stood out to me. It taught me something, especially not being from that area or that community and actually going through report telling that story. It was important to me to be able to actually profile a family, and be able to tell their story about living in poverty, which was a huge challenge to be able to do. Because if you can imagine, most people don't want to open their doors in their lives to share something that could expose them to risk, that could expose them to judgment and a lot of other things as well. So but I was able to to find, you know, a really incredible family who is just so open and gracious in sharing their story just so that people could open their minds and their hearts to what is a reality for a lot of people in that area.

Yeah. So you're using these skills or you use these school skills to help people kind of make sense and some personal connection with things like child poverty, with crime, these hard issues, you, you, you learned how to make them very personable and for people to make an emotional connection. Is that fair to say?

Yes. Absolutely.

Cool. And along the way, you're like, alright, well, that's good. But telling stories of crime and poverty might not be the own I'm sorry. Childhood poverty and and crime might not be the only thing that you could do on planet Earth. I wanna do something different. Tell us about that transition point. Like, what was going through your mind, and how did you decide, well, okay. I'm gonna take these skills and start putting them into the service of having more positive impact.

Yeah. No, absolutely. And I will say that specific story living in poverty, when that piece aired in the market, so much good came out of it. And some of the things from just simple food and clothing donations that were given to the family from people she knew and people she didn't know, and they just didn't know her story. Her daughter, who at the time was a graduating high school senior, actually was offered and awarded a partial or I I I won't it might have been even a full scholarship to Auburn University Montgomery. Nice. And she could so even though I was telling challenging stories, that one in particular was so rewarding because I saw the way that once we build that emotional connection that you mentioned, the way that people stand up, you know, help turn a negative into a positive. And I knew that there could be more of this, And I wanted to figure out a way to do more of it.

The thing is, in a 24 hour news cycle, when you need to constantly fill airtime, you really are not usually awarded that much time to actually tell those type of impactful stories.

Yeah.

So that's really what led to I mean, I I came back. I mean and that was again and that my that was my first job out of college. So I moved back to South Florida, and I would say that was really the confirmation for me in working at the ABC affiliate in this market that we had so much news and time to fill, and I was more so, you know, hitting the pavement. If it bleeds, it leads type of type of thing. And there were still some stories here and there. I remember some stories I've done on nonprofits and the way the community stepped up, donated, and gave. I just wanted more opportunities to share those stories. So I actually just left my job as a reporter at the time with no plan.

I said, wait. Okay. I need to leave and figure out my next step. And at that time, I thought it was going to be, you know, pursuing, creating my own documentaries. So that didn't happen quite

at that point. Well, I wanna wind I wanna wind it back just a little bit, Tamika, and say, listeners, one of the reason Tamika's here, I get pitched doesn't matter how many times. I get pitched a lot, because we've been doing this for almost 7 years now, probably the longest or one of the longest running social entrepreneur podcasts on planet Earth at this point. And one of the reasons you're here, Tamika, one of the reasons I said yes, is because of that emotional connection. Right? You you part of it is your background and, like, you have some history as a journalist, and I have some sense of that. And we're gonna unpack some of the strategies in just a second. But listeners, I wanna draw your attention to what you're already hearing what Tamika there's she's dropping wisdom for you. So I wanna make sure you catch it, which is to go a little bit deeper than just the facts or the sensational picture.

Like, I've heard it called nonprofit porn. Right? Like, if you wanna get attention to put up the tragedies and get people, like, kind of stop and, like, give their money or their attention or whatever you want. And okay. I get that. But there's some yes. But there's something about the emotional connection that we've never met before. We had a short conversation so full, but you're communicating something different in how you're showing up. Your website on LinkedIn.

I knew you knew something that our listeners would benefit from, and I just wanted to draw your attention. You're already hearing it, listeners, and we're gonna unpack it more. But notice what you've heard about not just rinse and repeat stories that get sensationalized attention, but getting deeper into the human element and forming emotional connections. And I knew you knew this, but we're not we're just about 10 minutes in, and you're already kind of hinting in that direction. And I'm gonna take us further down that rabbit hole in just a second. So so you had that experience of, like, a few of these stories and then kind of mainstream media. It was hard to do a lot of that, but you you did some of that. You won some awards.

You can go check that out, listeners. So you you were good at that role, but you you kind of had a hunger for more meaning and to do more of that. Having a positive difference through that storytelling, because you had a number of examples, and you're like, I want more of that. Not just, you know, get it out fast and get the attention that gets the ratings that many reporters in more traditional media are pressured to do. Is that a fair assessment of the transition that you're talking about now?

Yeah. No. That's very fair. Absolutely. And I will say, actually, I took my storytelling skills at the time and pivoted into nonprofit arts.

Okay. Nonprofit arts. Cool. And how long was that iteration?

That was from about 2015 until 2018, actually.

Yes. So you're saying it's it's nonlinear. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody else on this in this community would have a nonlinear journey here. Right? No. Certainly not me and, you know, not for mental health, business coaching, for social entrepreneur. Never.

Never. Nope. Yeah. So so non for nonprofit arts, and tell us a little bit about that iteration and what did that look like.

Yeah. Actually, this is so if you think back to 2014, 2015, this was now the boom of, I guess, you could call it a boom of social media and owning your own story or owning your own media. And really whereas before there is a big dependence on utilizing traditional media to reach your art audience. And now and this is the world we live in today with websites and okay. Companies were using websites in 2014, long before that. But having this direct way to communicate with people and interact with people on social media and brands all of a sudden, nonprofits, etcetera, were saying, hey. How do we utilize this for our own benefit? And I actually entered into nonprofit arts, which I'd always been passionate about. I wanted to go into nonprofits because I felt like, hey, I could use my storytelling skills for good, but how can we utilize storytelling? And at that time, I actually went to the New World Symphony classical music, and they their challenge was and still is in many ways, how can we be remain relevant and connect with younger audiences.

And one way that they wanted to do that at the time was through telling stories and creating connections, deeper connections with their community. So we kind of cocreated this new role, which was me as the institution storyteller.

Oh, nice. How fun is that?

Oh, it's so fun because, actually, in college, I was a double major in journalism and theater, so I felt like this was a good marriage of both of my passions. And, also, these musicians have, like, graduated from Julliard and Manhattan School of Music. And

I I bet you got to go to some good concerts.

Absolutely. And they're still an amazing client. However, so I still go all of the time. Nice. And it's just I I I can still point back to an experience of listening to a string quartet rehearsing in just a simple rehearsal room. And I I think I was shooting some of this content, and I was just so moved. And there's that experience with classical music. I think that happens.

I was so moved to tears. I was like, I I just remember the first time I sat in that room, and because it's such an intimate room getting chills and really feeling the energy and the power of music, and it was just wow. It it it just reiterated the fact of how much music is that universal language Yeah. And how powerful it is. So, hopefully, we're not getting way too off track here.

No. No. It's great to have a none of this very few of the listeners on this particular community have had linear journey. So yeah. No. I appreciate you sharing the full spectrum story. So so you had that iteration, and along the way, somewhere, this entity called TB Media, and particularly focused on video story telling. And and there was a there was an intentionality about it.

So tell us about the launch of the media group and tell us, like, why video? Why are you such a proponent of video, and how does that relate to that earlier conversation about making

Mhmm. Yeah. No. Absolutely. It was actually while I was an employee at the symphony that I met my first ever client. TB Media Group was never even a thought in the back of my mind, but they asked me to produce a video for them. And I said, well, I can do that. And I feel like in some ways, that's how many of our businesses are born out of a need that is recognized.

We are asked to do something we are good at doing, and we say yes to doing it.

And then we go you then we go search on YouTube about how to figure out the parts that we don't know. Right?

Exactly. Even the the the very first part, like, how to start a business

Right.

In the state of Florida. That was literally how it started, and it was actually through that experience of working with the first client, which to me felt impact driven because it was a municipality here. And they had done research on, you know, their community because they felt like there was a communications gap. And a large part of their a large number of their residents were actually senior citizens.

Mhmm.

But then a large number were also high school students, like, under the age of 20. And the way that both groups like to receive their communications were different, 1 through print and 1 through digital.

Right.

So they created this initiative for high achieving high school students who were interested in civic engagement, and they brought them together with senior citizens in the community and had them teach senior citizens how to use the Internet, whether it was from applying for jobs online to online dating, to searching on YouTube and learning how to do things and Yeah. You know, learning new skills. But through that process, we saw how these students who are just coming of age essentially preparing to go off to college and, you know, at that age, especially for the high achievers. Right? They're super focused on, oh my gosh, I it it should have been an a plus, but it was an a. Like, that type of individual. And then they're learning about life and the ups and downs that come with it from someone who has gone on a journey. And you really saw this, you know, two way learning through the groups and also practical skills that they took away from it. And what was beautiful is that we could, you know, we were able to share that story through video.

And I don't think you could have seen those interactions in the same way or experience them in the same way if they were documented in a report Yep. Or even only an audio. Like, just seeing those little, you know, reactions to each other and them there working on the computer and the laughing and the interaction and what they learned from each other. And when this was actually presented in front of the city commission, because the goal was to continue the program, It received a standing ovation, and this program was granted additional funding to continue.

Beautiful. And and you said, that didn't suck. I wanna do more.

Exactly. I was like, wow. Well, that is what I was in search of all along.

Yeah. So when was this? Like, give us a time frame.

That was working with my first client, the city of Sunrise, actually, in Broward County, Florida in the spring of 2016.

2016, and we're in 2024. We're recording this in January, so we're talking 8 years ago. So fast forward a couple of years and, like, you I assume you're started leaning into DB Media Group, and that became your full time endeavor. Right?

Yep. Absolutely. 2 years later after 2016, so I had got on to another cultural center. I got laid off from that full time job in the fall of 2018, and I hadn't grown my clients just a little bit. I had a handful, 4 to 5, that I was working with at the time. And when I got laid off from my full time position, I said, okay. Well, here was my sign.

Okay, universe. I hear you. Yeah.

I hear you. Let's go ahead and dive in head first and see if I can turn this into an actual thing that pays the bills. And, you know, I think and probably a lot of entrepreneurs go through this. Now all of a sudden, when you you are dependent entirely on you to survive, to eat, to whatever those things are, and your responsibilities are, you can make decisions. And I I will speak for myself here, but I definitely made decisions along the way that maybe weren't most aligned with what I was most passionate about was impact storytelling. Yeah. Right? So it was like it was kind of like, who was willing to pay me to do something that I am good at or, you know, competent at instead of focusing on what I felt called to do.

Yeah. So in the second part of the show, we're gonna get into the strategies you developed. But before we take a break and hear from our sponsor, talk to me, Tamika, about what would you suggest? Because we've got social entrepreneurs who have 1,000 person companies and are some of the best known in the world. And we have folks who are still, like, maybe they they're you with that one client or, like, 2 clients, and it's a side hustle. And they're like, oh, I want to, but I'm scared. What would you say to somebody who's like you in 2018? Or it's like, I wanna lean into the impact work, but I'm scared, and there's a lot I don't know, and I'm searching on YouTube, and it's really raw and fresh. And at least for me, it was really scary. I had a kid.

It was scary. What what would you say to somebody who's in that situation right now?

I would say always go back to your why. I never say, like, don't do this thing over here, over here. Ever each each person's individual circumstance is unique, and you have to do the the bare minimum, the the the necessary things you need to do in your own personal life. But at the end of the day, you are called to this impact work. And I think every time that I can see that I kind of veered off in it on a different path because of fear, I ended up either less happy, feeling sicker, or whatever that thing was because I was misaligned. And what always brought me back on path was going back to my why.

Great advice. So let's pause there just for a minute. In a moment, I wanna come back. I wanna hear your real world strategies for making storytelling effective and relational and forming real genuine bonds that the people you're telling stories to. But before we do that, let's just take a quick break and hear a word from our sponsor. Are you facing 1 or more important decisions in your impact business? And you'd like an experienced thought partner to develop a plan about how to proceed in the complex times we're living. But you don't feel the need for an extended coaching or consulting contract that's gonna cost you many 1,000 of dollars. You're looking for an affordable, targeted, and time efficient type of support.

Through paulzelloser.com, I offer a strategy session package. These packages are ideal for entrepreneurs who are facing 1 to 3 immediate decisions, like how to increase your positive impact, fine tune your marketing strategies to get more results for less effort, launch a new product or service successfully, or refine your pricing structure so it's both inclusive and provides you with a great quality of life. You can find out more by clicking below, and thank you so much for listening to this podcast. So welcome back, everybody. I am here with Tamika Bickham, and we're getting so much wisdom about effective social impact storytelling. And so in the second part of the show, Tamika, so now we got the story, kind of how this was born and some of your journey. A big shout out to Guy Raz, how I built this. It's such a model for me in this podcast.

If you don't know that show, go check it out. I'll put it in the show notes. So we we did a little bit of our how I built this story. So so now talk to me a little bit. In the second part of the show, we try to get a little more granular about strategies and just like real world granular. How do we get past the the lingo? Right? Social impact story tell. I did research. People are searching it on Google every single month.

It's a pretty popular keyword. Right? You hear it thrown around all the time. And honestly, at least to me, when I go to conversations or I see somebody make a video about, so they're like, tell your story. It's really important. It's really helpful to not just do facts. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. Right. Like that's the layer of wisdom we're at in many phases of the impact community.

And I would say in 2024, like, all right. Yeah. Everything's true, but we gotta go deeper than that. So help us if I'm a listener, I'm like, yes, I know storytelling in the social impact space is important, but I'm struggling to turn that into something actionable. What what can you offer our listeners? Like, you don't have to convince me. I don't think our list is a deep dive podcast. I do 50, 55 minute episodes. Obviously, this isn't a TikTok video.

Right? That's not the chosen media and the people who listen, they're in for it. They're they're down for it. They want depth. So if you're somebody who wants to take your impact storytelling to the next level, what do you got for us?

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I love that you said, hey, everyone says it's important to tell your story, and then we're talking about impact storytelling. So I kinda wanted to just, like, zoom out a little bit and talk about the different types of stories that we can tell. Right? Because there's definitely that founder story. And like you said, you have listeners at all sizes of business. So depending on where you are in that, that founder story might be really, really important to you. But, again, if you have a a 1,000 person business, right, like, the founder story is definitely very separate from the brand story, and we wanna start to separate and differentiate those. Right? Because as we build our businesses and, you know, the the incredible impact work that we're doing, that starts to create and take on a life and story of its own from your founder story.

So you have the founder story, but then you also have your brand story, the story of the business. Right? But then separate from that, you have the story of those that you are impact. Right? Those that you're creating impact for. So there's a lot of different stories and a lot of different angles that we can take. We tell all types of stories and that cross over all of those areas, but what we're most focused on is the impact piece. But before I can say, hey, what do we need to focus on in that impact piece? I'm always gonna start with the goal. What are you trying to achieve? Right? And I think when I was listening earlier to I believe it was Zoe on

the story. The climate the climate start up. I'm sorry. The climate, pitch deck episode with Zoe. Yes.

Yes. And I I loved a lot of what she had to say and really starting with, hey, no matter what it is we're doing for clients, it's strategy, and I couldn't agree more with what she was saying. Because, ultimately, when we're talking about telling stories, I wanna know why do you need this story, and what are you trying to achieve with this story? Right? Is it is it fundraising? Is it the investor? Is it more awareness? Is it education?

People buying your product or enrolling in your program. Right? What's what's the desired outcome? Yes.

Exactly. So we have to certainly know that first before we can say, hey. This is where we go with the story.

Cool. So so the first thing I hear you saying is there's a couple different types of story. There's a founder story. There's a brand story. Like, you start getting a business. I was emailing back and forth one of the founders I'm working with. It's an 18 person company now. 12 years, maybe 13 year now.

Obviously, an 18 person company has a story that's bigger than the founder. Right? And then there's an impact story, like, who are you serving and what's what's going on in their lives? And those are kind of 3 different kinds of stories. And if you understand which one you're telling and why you're making that choice, you're gonna do a better job. You didn't say that word, but I'm just more blunt than you are. And then once you have a sense of, like, what's the what's the type of story I'm telling you, you're like, why, why am I even telling this? What's my desired outcome again? The thing you don't want in 2024 is I want the generic visibility. Right? Like that is just so boring and so unhelpful. And yes, it's nice to get your message out there, but that's likely to lead to lackluster results. Is it? Yeah, I'm a I'm a startup that's trying to get funding.

And people I'm trying to engage donors and a campaign. I've got a crowdfunding going live, trying to get people in my latest workshop that's impact focused. I'm trying to attract more clients to a programme or an accelerator. Those are very nuanced, different outcomes. And I hear you saying, and I'm cosigning, if you know what outcome you're optimizing for, you're going to get much more results from your storytelling than if you're just like, I'm supposed to tell a good story. So I am going to use the word storytelling a lot.

Right. Exactly. And, I mean, I can give an example, and there might be you should ultimately, as you build your your storytelling skills and that muscle and your bank of content, essentially, as you are marketing, etcetera, there's gonna be different types of stories that you're going to wanna tell and start to fill in each one of those areas. And I can think of a specific example with a tech startup we worked with who was looking for funding, right, and investors to come in and support their solution. And and this individual company, I I can certainly say because we've shared about this on our on our website is SARA Critical Events Response Application. This is by law enforcement fought for law enforcement. And the creator, Ed McGovern, was, you know, a former law enforcement officer in South Florida and had responded to both the Fort Lauderdale Airport shooting and Marjorie Stodeman Douglas.

Mhmm.

And through those experiences and also being in, I I wanna say it's called the department of web crimes, tech crimes. I might be getting the the department name there in law enforcement, but he's very familiar with technology and said, hey. The reason that we are having such great loss of life, which has been reported on across mass shootings across the country, is because of response times. Now I don't you know, he didn't wanna get we we we didn't get into the whole, you know, the the gun debate.

Guns versus no guns. That wasn't that that wasn't the impact for that project. The project was response time. Right? Exactly. I love how specific that. A great example. Awesome example.

Exactly. It was all about response and how that can be improved because he's I and and I I don't know this example super well, but I remember him telling me, like, how however many years ago, there was a massive fire in a in a school and I should look this up, so I had the information, but I I remember him giving me this example. And ever since then, fire alarms and protocols in terms of schools change, and we didn't have that happen again. And what we need to see is why we are having these issues with response, which we know is due to communication systems failures among law enforcement archaic communication tools that haven't been updated, and why are we not changing them so that this does not continue to happen in terms of the delay in response. Because most of what we saw is that these students, like in Marjory Stone and Douglas and other mass shootings were bleeding out. And how can that be? And and sorry. I know this is a heavy topic.

No. The that's what we're here for. We deal with really hard things. No. Thank you for being specific. This is so much more helpful than just go tell stories that are important. So continue. This is exactly why I invited you here.

And I will say there were 2 immediate angles that we had to had to tackle. And, of course, I kind of gave you the background on the founder story, so I'm gonna leave that. Obviously, there was a very personal mission there for him having been a first responder.

Yeah.

And, you know, what he could offer to that solution other than, hey, the big tech companies like the Motorola's, etcetera, that are coming in with these apps that haven't worked it on the ground as law enforcement that's responding. So that was one piece. But then there was also, how does the app work itself? To me, that was less of a story, and that was more, you know, the mechanics behind it. And that was a piece that the investors want or potential investors wanted to see. So there was that piece that we helped create initially because there when something is a little bit complicated, it can be difficult for the person on the other end to digest and understand. Hey. How does this actually work out in the real world?

Yeah. So is it is it fair to say to me I've heard in good sales training, they say, first, you wanna make an emotional connection with the issue of the people you're trying to help. And then you wanna give them the rational information, the logistics, the data that would help them understand the solution you're selling. Because first, as humans, most humans, when we make a sales choice or a donation choice, or are we gonna buy this or that solution to a school shooting, or join this accelerator or that accelerator? First, we are looking to make an emotion. Do I trust these people? Are there there's a values connection? Are they available and and responsive? And will they take my situation into account? Do they care about people like me? Are they available to like, help me solve problems? Like all those emotional intelligence issues. Right. And the storytelling, I think I hear you saying start there and the story helps us meet. And then we wanna give the data of like, okay, once we tell a story about, hey, kids are dying because the response time is too long, and we wanna help you understand if we can quicken that, people will survive.

Then we would go into, in this case, telling the story of here's how this app works and how it might be different than other things. We use certain technologies, or we have a combination of technology and humans so that we ensure that you know, whatever the data point is for solving the problem, but we lead with the emotional storytelling so there's a connection. Then we give them the left brain, if you wanna use that frame. Here's the nuts and bolts of how this solution solves this issue that will save lives or help people, you know, students from challenging backgrounds succeed or whatever the issue might be. Is that at all something you think about?

Yep. Absolutely. And I'm not sure. Maybe you know who says this, but that people make emotional decisions that are backed up by a lot.

Yes. Yes. There's a lot of research about it and I can find it, but I've seen the same thing. We're thinking of the same research. We make emotional decisions and then we use rational information to kind of compound and justify the purchases that we're gonna make. Yeah. And I can't remember, but it's all over in the sales and business development world. I'll track it down and post an example, but this is definitely evidence based research that business development, you know, college sales classes are teaching.

They have been for years. Very well documented. So I'll put a link to some research on that. So so you're doing that in an impact setting. Is that fair to say?

That's definitely fair to say, and I will say we focus on that nonfiction video piece, which lends itself to that emotional appeal. Right? It I mean, it makes sense that you save the the data and the facts and figures for more reports or written type of formats and the emotional connection for what you see, what you feel, what you hear, what you experience through a video.

Now you understand why response time is so important. Let me tell you why the, I don't know, the Tamika app, whatever it's called. Right? Let let me show you how we solve those problems of response time in a, b, and c ways. Right? That's the formula. Start with the connection and help people understand the human and relational costs, then give them the data of how your solution addresses some of the things that maybe aren't so well handled in the space that you're planting your flag.

And luckily, in this instance, we were able to interview one of the teachers and students who were in one of the classrooms at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas that day who were, you know, obviously, as as challenging as it was for them, was important for them to speak out about what they experienced and why they supported this technology and how it could have made a difference.

So I gotta ask you the 2 questions I have to ask you. I feel like I wouldn't be doing my job. One is what for what a beautiful opportunity to interview them. And and any suggest I've seen people try to do this, but it not go so well. Right? It could feel like just unskillful would be a word. Right? You can imagine you're trying to have an outcome, you're trying to get this thing funded or sell X, Y, or Z or get people to make donations. But you have this teacher, you have this student, and they've been through this trauma. And it just cringe.

That's the only word I can think of. Right. You know what, I'm, you're shaking your head. How do we not do that as impact? How do we do this skillfully? If we're going to tell hard stories and look to help people make an emotional connection, how do we do it in an honest, authentic, non manipulative way. Any any suggestions for that?

Yeah. Absolutely. I'm glad you asked that question because that's the last thing that we want is someone to see this and feel like this feels contrived or this feels opportunistic and inauthentic. And I think what's most important there is that it has to be real, and it has to be authentic. In this case, this teacher, this student had long become friends with the creator of this app. He had reached out to them for their advice, their input, their advisory on building this and really I mean, authentically built a relationship. So I think if that hadn't exist existed, it would have been much more challenging to say, hey. Tell your story, and then we're gonna connect to that to this product so that, ultimately, we wanna sell.

Right? And it said they were a part of the team, essentially.

Yes. Yes. So I I'm just thinking of how often it happens in the world. Like, imagine it felt like this. Hi, complete stranger. You went through a school sheet shooting and people you love died. Now tell the story of why they should buy I I don't mean to be so facetious about it, but, like, there's a lot of that kind of story to like, oh, I'm supposed to like, make a human connect. So, so one of the things I hear you saying, and, and I don't do as much of this as I'd like, but I can give a simple example.

I do a meet and greet before every episode. Right? So like to not that we're best friends. I mean, we, you pitched me. I'm so glad you did. But before we, like, hit record, we spent 15 or 20 minutes, and we said, hi. We got to know each other a little bit. And not that I'm asking you to tell a story of somebody, you know, getting shot and died, but but I just use that as a very a little example of how I try to do some of this, a little bit of relationship building before you get into the really hard issues that we deal with in this community. And my sense is of you, Tamika, that you would have your own ways of doing that as well.

You wouldn't just turn on a camera and say, now tell me about, you know, your kid who's, like, struggling in school because they don't have enough food, or this person you love to, you know, shot and died in a school shooting, and please tell me why they should buy the app. There's there's a there's a value you have, and you would bake that into any project you work on. Is that fair to say?

Absolutely. And I'm glad you brought that up. You're it's like you're a mind reader Because that is part of our process when it comes to video and not everyone includes this, but we do have a pretty extensive preproduction process when it comes to producing nonfiction video because that means nothing is made up. Everything is real and true and honest, which means before I ever meet you in person, I'm having conversations. We're conducting pre interviews. And it may seem and I actually had one of these last week where I, you know, I may ask the client 2 or 3 times, well, what does that look like? Or, you know and it seems very simple to them. And we were going over, you know, how they interact with some of their their clients, those that they serve within the community. And I'm like, they said face to face meeting.

I said, okay. Well, what exactly does that look like? Right? Because and and then I'll ask it again or ask it in a different way, and then I'll get on the on a call with them and see how they say things, how they phrase things so that everything that we're actually pulling together once we actually hit record in person is really authentic to what they actually do.

Yes. Authentic and also like you're extracting wisdom that they don't know they have. Right. Like in their process that they're designing, whether it's that client is like a real genius and an impact space, but they don't necessarily, they, it just, oh, Paul does a mean greet interview for 15 minutes, and I don't even mention it. Right. But many podcasters will say, you know, yeah, but I but I'm too busy for something like that. And then I like to joke, hi, complete stranger, I just hit record, have a world class conversation go right. And there's even just a little bit of relationship time.

It matters in terms of how some of the episodes land. And, and that's just one little thing that I do that many people in the podcast space don't. And, and you listen to with a refined or a nuanced awareness, and you're looking for those things and helping them kind of tease it out and say, you know what? I think this might make a difference in what you're doing and allow certain impacts to happen. Is that true? And have you ever told that story? And if they haven't you, you highlight it or find a way to accentuate that in the videos or any other storytelling you're doing That's my sense of you. Am I telling tales that aren't true?

No. That's absolutely true. And I think I I liken it to all of us as business owners probably at one point have tried to put together an SOP. Right? Think of it that way. Like, it could be an SOP around your onboarding process. And then as you start to actually write it down step by step so that somebody else can understand it, you're like, wait. This is, well, number 1, way harder than I ever thought it would be. At least I know that was my experience.

Right.

You, I didn't realize all of this was involved in what I do in my

You're like a fish swimming in water, and you don't even realize you're doing it. Right?

Exactly. So the things that you do every day in your incredible impact work are very similar to that. And then when you're trying to communicate it to somebody who may have no knowledge or limited knowledge or certainly not as intimate knowledge as you, you have to kind of do the same thing, which is receive that information.

Thanks for bringing that out. Just like teasing it out is really important, like teasing out things that you might not have known. Sometimes in the impact space, there's the fire hose syndrome. Like we wanna give so much information that it overwhelms people. You're shaking your head. I think you've seen this before. We're so passionate and we wanna say, oh, we do 27,000 things, and that's what makes this work so amazing. And like, people are just like, this is too much.

I can't take it all in. Like, is there also some sort of knowing how to prune a story for the audience and the goals that the person has that here's the things to highlight now. And then when they, like, contact you to sign up for your app or sign up for your accelerator or join your cohort, that's awesome. Then you can, like, drill down a little further, but let's highlight these five things or these three things, not 27,000 in 18 minute video or a 4 minute video. Right? Is that fair to say?

Yes. Absolutely. We do we we cannot effectively communicate the 27,000 things that you do. But when you're feeling kind of stuck as to, hey, which direction or which one do I focus on? And I know this frequently comes up when we work with nonprofits who have, like, 20 programs. And that's amazing and it's fantastic. But what is your top goal and or priority right now? What is, you know, maybe getting lost in translation, not being communicated well? What program is it that you want to fill that you haven't been able to? So it's just kind of those are a few examples, but it's just kind of getting to the heart of what is most key and priority for your organization at this time. So let's start there.

Beautiful. Any other we we could go on all day and listeners go check out Tamika's psych, go hire Tamika because obviously, she's really good at this. But is there any other wisdom in the, like, here's the right amount of information in the space we have as, as we're starting to get towards the end of this interview? Is there anything we haven't touched on that feels really important?

I would say don't forget to oh, there's so many things. Okay. I was gonna say, have fun with your story. Have fun. You know? And, you know, it's I love what I do. And even though I mentioned some heavy topics, being able to just listen, learn, talk to people, understand different perspectives, unique experiences is so rewarding. And I would say, you know, your role as a as a founder, whatever your role is within your organization, keep that part alive. Like, those that are impacted or impacted by your work, have those conversations with them.

You will never know all of the stories that you will actually discover and uncover by just asking questions by just listening. So I I I'm a big fan of just being really, really curious because you may uncover stories you were not that were not even on your radar.

Awesome. One more question for you, Tamika. Look ahead 3 years, 5 years. Like, what's the work you're doing then? And what's the impact you're having by telling stories in the impact space 5 years from now?

Oh, you know, 5 years as an entrepreneur in his life.

5 lifetimes. Absolutely. Absolutely.

So I started this out this episode up by really talking about one of my goals has really been to produce a documentary. I don't know on what just yet, but when I look ahead to that time frame, I hope that that is complete or in the works because every time I I watch something that moves me or where I learn something really different, it it just opens my perspective. Feel helps me feel more connected to maybe someone on the other side of the world. And I think our world could use so much more of that right now. And I would love to see us more connected through at least some of the work that we're doing and we're doing along with our clients to help bring us closer together. Because I feel like one of the key ways that we can get there is through open communication, through understanding, and through seeing things through the eyes of others, and storytelling is a key way to do that. So that's what I hope to do and have been able to produce a full, like, feature documentary that helps contribute to that goal.

Beautiful. Tamika, how can people find you if they wanna find out more?

You can go on over to our website, tbmediagroup.com, and I'm also on all of the socials. Add me, connect with me there.

Cool. So I'll put links in the show notes. Thank you so much, Tamika, for being on the show today.

Thank you. It was a blast.

So please go tell your friends. Go check out the website. Really appreciate the wisdom that was shared today. Before we go, just a reminder, we love listeners suggested topics and guests. So go take a look at the Awarepreneur's website. And on our contact page, we have 3 simple guidelines. Tell us what stories you wanna hear. If you've got a story, pitch me, please.

I love it when listeners pitch us stories or tell us about your friends and colleagues. So I just want to say thank you so much for listening today. Please take really good care in these intense times, and thank you for all the positive impact that you're working for in our world.