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Healing at the Heart
The Inclusion Bites Podcast
Healing at the Heart
JL
Speaker
Joanne Lockwood
JK
Speaker
Jared Karol
00:00 "The Art of Equanimity" 06:32 Reflecting on Personal Growth 14:50 Path to Collective Awareness 16:26 "From Lens to Mirror" 24:33 Finding Grounding Through Adversity 26:51 Healing Through Connection and Release 35:14 Blocking Negative LinkedIn Response 39:34 "Thought-Terminating Clichés" 47:42 Lens vs Inner Development 49:55 "Passion vs Purpose" 56:03 "Modern…
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Featured moments
Highlights
“Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change.”
“Equanimity in Difficult Conversations: "My superpower is bringing equanimity to difficult conversations so people can stay present, honest and open instead of shutting down or fighting back.”
“Woke Journey Reflections: "I'd say for the first, you know, eight to 10 years, I was that, you know, newly woke white guy who was telling everyone how unwoke they were until I decided that that wasn't really effective or sustainable, which I'm sure we'll jump into many, many stories of how and why and how I, how I shifted.”
“The Urgency for Social Justice in Education: "But to your point, yeah, we see that the world is unjust, is inequitable, is unfair historically and contemporarily on a micro and macro, on a local and global level. And we want change yesterday.”
“The Value of Diverse Roles in Social Movements: "Not all of us are and can be frontline protesters, rebel rabble rousers. There needs. There need to be caretakers, educators, coaches, storyteller.”
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Full transcript
Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyone not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo and share stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect and inspire action together. Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to share your insights or to join me on the show.
So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites.
And today is episode 187, the title Healing at the Heart. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Jared Carroll. Jared is a personal development coach working at the intersection of social change and healing. He helps people understand who they are so they can show up more consciously, courageously and sustainably in the world. When I asked Jared to describe his superpower, he said it is bringing equanimity to difficult conversations so people can stay present, honest and open instead of shutting down or fighting back. Hello, Jared. Welcome to the show.
Hello, Jo. Thank you for having me. Great to be here.
Absolute pleasure. And we were. We've been yakking away for probably 25 minutes and we had to press record quickly, otherwise everything we talk about is going to end up on the floor and be lost for time. But we were. We talked about the fact that you live in Oakland, California.
I do, yeah.
That gave us something in common because I was in Oakland a year ago. A year and a half ago.
That's right. Well, you said you were at HR west emceeing the conference. I spoke at HR West. I think it was 2019. 2018 19, but. Yeah, right. Downtown Oakland, 10 minutes, same place.
The Marriott Convention Centre, was it?
Yeah, they have a big, big building there down like. I think it's. Yeah. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very cool.
And. And back at me. You're a football fan, so you've. Sorry, UK soccer fan. So you follow the English Premiership. So you know about Portsmouth and where I come from. Because you follow the team.
I do. I. His.
I.
Well. And maybe we'll get into this because it's part of my journey, but I was a college athlete. Not soccer, but lacrosse. And I was a big Sports guy in my youth, in college and young, Young adult. And then I decided I didn't want to be that guy anymore. But I kind of had one. One little thing I couldn't let go from my youth, which was. Which was soccer.
So I decided, well, if I'm going to follow sport, I'm just going to pick one, one country. And I chose England. And so. So I know the. I know the British geography largely through where the soccer teams are.
That's a. That's a really, really good way of doing it. And I know many Brits who follow American football or basketball or baseball, and they know all of the names of the clubs and where they are in their world. So, yeah, I guess if you're going to learn geography, tie it to something and why not sport?
Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, happy to be here and talk about whatever makes sense for us to talk about.
Well, let's start with the word that I was you put into your bio and show notes as equanimity. I struggled there. I struggled to pronounce it the first time because I'd never used it before. And so I even had to feed it to copilot to look up what it meant. But you said that word has sat with you for a couple of decades, so why did you bring that into the conversation?
I bring it into all conversations about anything trivial or serious or anything in between. The way I define it, actually, I don't really have a concise, tidy definition like copilot I gave you, but I see it as a way for us, for me, for you, for anyone to. The hardships, the suffering, the challenges, the situations that we face, just as, you know, being human with. With composure, with poise, with calmness, without. Without freaking out, without getting too down or perpetuating. Perpetuating a storyline that may or may not often is not true. And then conversely, when you know the quote, unquote, good things happen. Not getting too elated, not getting too high, not getting too cocky.
And so just it's this kind of ongoing self and meta awareness of what's going on and having the confidence to know I can handle it, even if I don't like it, even if it's hard, even if I don't know what to do or what to say, I can handle it. So as we both know, doing this type of work, those are important skills to have, and a lot of people do have them, but a lot of people don't.
And then in your superpower, you said it's about avoiding shutting down or fighting back. And when you are oppressed, marginalised, at the brunt of somebody else's bullying or discrimination, those are often the two choices, aren't they? Shut down, run away, tail between your legs, or come out with teeth showing and growling and is trying to sit somewhere in the middle there where you can engage in the conversation. And that's a really tough thing to do when you're under that psychological pressure.
It is. And I'm a, you know, I'm a cis straight white man. So I have, I'm, I'm at the top of the privilege food chain. So for, I think for a long time, I mean, I've been doing this work for 25 years. My father was a, was a gay man. He died of AIDS in 2000. And that's when I decided to change really to do the work. And so when I started doing the work, it was the typical kind of social justice warrior, like, okay, time to wake up, Jared.
You've been, you know, ignoring all this stuff for, you know, your whole life and now it's time to not. So I jumped into that work. I was teaching at the time, that was my profession. And I was, I was snarky, I was acerbic, I was dogmatic, I was, you know, things were new to me, new theories, new philosophies, new understandings of history that I hadn't really, I mean, I had had some exposure to some of this through my dad, but I wasn't really listening that closely or, you know, didn't, it didn't affect me who I thought. So I'd say for the first, you know, eight to 10 years, I was that, you know, newly woke white guy who was telling everyone how unwoke they were until I decided that that wasn't really effective or sustainable, which I'm sure we'll jump into many, many stories of how and why and how I, how I shifted. But that's, that's a good place to start with where I was back then.
Yeah, I think it is the temptation when you're trying to educate people, you want to, you want to educate them by being right and they want to be uneducated by being right themselves and not needing to be educated. It's trying to find that balance of how to educate without telling, isn't it? How to show don't tell.
Yeah, it's. Which is interesting you bring that up because I was a teacher for 12 years and for most of that time I taught middle school humanities, you know, language arts, writing history, I taught a social justice curriculum. So everything was through the lens of power and privilege. And whether it was literature or history or current events or classroom dynamics, it was all through these lenses. And that was. I was fortunate and intentional about finding a school that allowed me to, you know, not only it allowed me, but that was what the school did and that they expected and supported us in doing. But to your point, yeah, we see that the world is unjust, is inequitable, is unfair historically and contemporarily on a micro and macro, on a local and global level. And we want change yesterday.
And so we get upset when people don't see that as clearly or as quickly or as urgently as we do. And so that causes us to. To be more upset because if. If this person or this community or this, you know, this government only saw. And so then it becomes charged. And I'm not saying there isn't a place for charged or for protest or for other things, but which again, we. I'm sure we'll dive into more details, but I think we lose track of what we're actually trying to do and we don't realise that we're actually not being effect our. Call it what you want to call it, fervour, righteousness.
And I would argue that that has. Has contributed to the challenges that we in this industry, dei, hr, social justice, whatever, however expansive or narrow, we want to define that as some of the challenges that we. That we.
I think I, as I've matured, you know, I'm in my. I'm in my early 60s. How did that happen? You know, I think over your. The arc of your life, you go through different phases, don't you? And I think I. I've become to learn that even though I'm more settled in my ways, more relaxed, more calm, more pragmatic, more logical, always I'm able to shift my thinking from my amygdala into my prefrontal cortex. Easier. Today. I don't get triggered.
I'm able to feed my human emotions differently. But I also recognise that in order to enact change, you need different people with different levels of passion, if you like, for whatever way. You do need the people who are the angry social, not necessarily the mob, but the angry social justice warriors who are fighting for the cause, who are whipping up people who are in that same space as they are. But then you've got the people on the other side who are looking for political change, which is slow, methodical, nuanced, persuasive, lobbying, all those kind of things. You've got people in the middle who are trying to do a bit of both and try and do it. I've come to realise that as I swing towards the more nuanced, logical approach, there's still a place for the people who want to wear the T shirt, march, those sort of things.
Well, I think there's. What I've learned is there three, three perspectives to take in this work. There's the why, there's the what and there's the how. So the why. I would imagine or, or hope or suspect that every person doing this work, social justice, dei, change, work, right, Has. Has a personal why. They may or may not have, have be clear about it or really know it. Maybe they haven't done that work, but there's something that's driving them to do this work, right, which is good.
You need that. Or else, like, what are you doing? Why are you doing this? Right? Then there's the what, which I think is what. What you were kind of getting at. Like, what is your role? So I'm a coach, I'm a facilitator. You know, some. Some people might be, you know, a community organiser, some people might be head of, you know, DEI at A. @ a big company or, you know, whatever. They're.
Maybe you're a speaker. So there's. There's the what. And then I was reminded, as you were talking of, I don't have it super handy. Maybe we can, after the show, we can put a link to it so people have it. But there's a woman named Deepa Iyer and she has this. What does she call it? The social change ecosystem. And she talks about the different roles that are needed and they.
Not all of us are and can be frontline protesters, rebel rabble rousers. There needs. There need to be caretakers, educators, coaches, storyteller. I mean, and she has this whole kind of, you know, graphic that illustrates it very, very well. And that gets to the. For me, the why, the what, the how, I think is under underappreciated and under emphasised because, especially if you see someone like me who, as I said, you know, a little bit ago, very comes from a privileged position doing this work, it's easy to dismiss my angle into this work as well. Of course you're privileged, so of course you can do that. But what about me, who has, you know, X, Y, Z marginalised identities, which is fair and taking this approach is open to anyone if they have the wisdom and maturity to see it.
And so that's what I have come to emphasise and focus on in My work and I can share some personal experiences that have led directly to that. But it's the how. How are we going about the work that is going to be effective and sustainable and build community, build connection. It's so easy to dismiss people who don't get it, who don't want to get it, who are hurtful, harmful, but the ways we've been going about it aren't working and they're not going to bring about the change that we say we.
Want. As you're talking, I'm thinking about some famous people in history that have probably themselves transitioned through. There's different ways of enacting change. You know, Nelson Mandela, for example, he was a freedom fighter terrorist. Prison probably calmed him down, but he came out a state statesman of the nation, the grandfather of the nation who then enacted change through political discourse, dialogue, calmness and reason. Lech was instrumental in the fall down of the Cold War, the Berlin war coming down in the 80s, the Solidarity Movement. He was a freedom fighter. And we look at Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, these people started off by, in the protest, freedom fighter space and then transitioned into the reasonable politician or the logical response.
I think. Yeah, I think that's probably a natural arc of evolution. I.
Think. Well, it is and it can be, and I hate to use the word should, but I would argue that it would be beneficial on an individual and collective level if it was that arc. And, you know, I don't think someone has to, you know, be in prison for 27 years to, you know, to come to that. Not really a conclusion, but to come to that awareness. Right. So how do you, how do all of us, you know, the people on the street doing this work, how do we come to those, that awareness ourselves without, you know, those, those big dire, you know, historically relevant and known, you know, events in our life, because we don't all have those, right? We have, you know, we have our own things. We have our own local things, our own personal things, our own, you know, but they're just as important. They're just as.
They're just as relevant. And so how do we individually decide, you know, what? I'm not giving up on this work, but I'm going to do it differently so that it's more sustainable and more effective. And it's building what I want to see, not just taking down what I don't want to see. And there's all kinds, you know, there's so many people, you know, contemporary people who are doing this work. And I've, I mean, I can, I'M sure we'll get into some of them. But one who, who immediately comes to mind is actually, he lives in Oakland as well, Dr. Sean Ginright. And he wrote a book, I think it's fairly recent, a couple years ago, maybe 20, 22 or so, called the four pivots.
He gist of the book is switching from trauma informed work to healing centred or healing centred, healing engaged. And so his first of the four pivots is from lens to mirror. Right. So the lens is the world is inequitable, unjust, unfair, we need to change it. Here's what we're going to do. So it's not like that goes away or that's wrong, but the mirror is okay, how do I need to change? What am I doing or not doing that's contributing to the chaos, to the, you know, to the status quo? And so he talks and I follow his, you know, his newsletter and he send once or twice a week, he'll share a little video and, and he's a, you know, he's a black man. So that's just one small example of this isn't just a privileged, you know, white guy thing. In fact, most of the people who I've been influenced by have been folks of colour, queer folks of colour, trans folks, people who are in, in multiple ways, have experienced and still are experiencing marginalisation, injustice, et cetera.
And so I, I take. What's the word I want to look for? I guess I don't want to say like, oh, I'm glad, I'm glad they're experiencing that, because I'm not, but I'm. I'm glad that it's an. So many examples of people who have chosen, kind of what you were getting at with Nelson Mandela and others have chosen to do their work differently and are better for it and the world is better for.
It. Yeah. Again, as you're talking, my mind's racing ahead, thinking, you touched a few buttons there. And I'm thinking in my own experience, about 12, 15 years ago, I awoke for one of the, you know, to paraphrase, lived same as you. I'd lived a lived life of privilege on the outside, benefited from that privilege. And then suddenly I, I stepped out of that lane into another lane and it was, it was a lot tougher, a lot harder, a lot more. And I think once I look back at that time, I definitely see myself transitioning through that awareness of what's going on in the world. Suddenly I'd lost a lot of privilege and gained a lot of marginalisation for Want a better way of describing it.
And I think that then woke me up to the injustice in the world. I think maybe when you say you talk to people there, queer people, people of colour, whatever it may be, is they've, they've, they've, they've started to. They've experienced this wind in their face all their lives, or they suddenly open the door and it's hit them and you go, hang on a minute. Whereas if you never open that door, you never feel that wind, you never have that feeling of being marginalised. It's really hard to build empathy with someone who has. You haven't got any reference point, have.
You? Well, that's why, you know, people in our industry use the phrase, you know, do the work. It's ubiquitous, right? Do the work, do your work, do the work. We gotta do the work. And we do. But I think sometimes do the work is. Is implied too narrowly, I think, when people, because I've had so many conversations and either personal conversations or witnessed kind of conversations or been part of online conversations, where do the work means get woke and they're talking to privileged folks. Do the work. Understand kind of what you were taught, understand why we're so upset, why black folks are so upset about racism, why queer folks are so upset, et cetera.
And that is necessary and I don't disagree with that at all. Yes, do that work. And to me, do the work also includes just as equally. And if I was a good graphic designer, I'd have some fancy little graphic that would show this in maybe like a quadrant or something, means do your inner work, do your inner work, do your healing work, whatever that looks like. For me, it's been Buddhist meditation, mindfulness philosophy. Right. The equanimity stuff that we started with doesn't have to be everyone's, you know, angle into it, but there has to be something that is, that is healing. Or else, as I keep coming back to, it's the other work that you're doing isn't going to be effective or sustainable.
So the other part of my story that, you know, I said my, My father, he was. So I was, I was 14 and I was, I was. Lived in San Diego and my dad had moved to San Francisco. We'd been there, I think, since I was 11. So I'd go up and visit him and it was kind of cool to come from the suburbs and go to the big city and ride the cable cars and, you know, all the, all the fun. Go to, go to Haight street and see all the hippies. And, you know, all the. All the San Francisco touristy things.
So I was 14, end of my freshman year in high school. And he sat me down at the end of the weekend, and it was usually one of those, hey, I love you, Jared. I wish we could see each other more often. You're a good kid. You know, all those things, which he did do. And then he said, you know something? You should know I'm gay, so I'm 14. This is the late 80s. We know what was going on in the world, especially in the United States.
Reagan was still, I think, president, maybe for a little bit longer. So there's a huge stigma. So I didn't tell anyone. I went home. I cried, I went home, and I didn't tell anyone for almost six years. I had the privilege of geographical separation. No one knew my dad. They knew he lived in San Francisco.
And I'd go up and see him three, four, five times a year. But I went through all the rest of high school and halfway through college without telling anyone because I was embarrassed. I was ashamed. I was confused. My dad and I had a. We. We. We had a decent relationship.
But about halfway through college, I was a college athlete, and I wasn't mature enough to. To have a. Have a gay dad, to own that, right? So he and his partner would visit, you know, every once in a while, and I'd have to arrange things or make up lies. And. Yeah, it's my dad and his friend, and we're just going out to lunch and. No, no, you know, we don't need to invite any of my friends.
Dad. It's.
Cool. Like, that kind of. I don't know if I can swear on this podcast, but that kind of bs, right? So finally, summer of my. So after my sophomore year, about halfway through college, I was with my friend Amy and I. And she was my best friend since. Since high school. She went to school in Colorado, and we were in the mountains camping, and I said, amy, I gotta tell you something. She's like, what's going on? You're being weird.
I said, my dad's gay. Said, big fucking deal. So I was 20 years old. And that was. That was the. The moment that I wouldn't say I changed all of a sudden. And just like, with his was this, you know, gay. Gay rights advocate.
But that opened up like, oh, like, this is. This is. This is a me thing. This is like a limiting belief that I have. So it started growing and growing a little bit. And then when he was. When I was 27 is when. When he passed.
And so when he, he, he was HIV positive and so he, I would go up and visit him. You know, I'm in my mid-20s now, out of college, still living back in San Diego and I'd go up to visit him and he started going to these gay men's meditation circles in Dubose, Dubose Triangle. People know the city, it's right next to the Castro. It's like kind of a cute little neighbourhood. And it would just, it'd be him with like three other men in their 40s and 50s and this woman who led it and then me, this 26 year old kid and, and this woman would lead these like little. It was in this super huge like open yoga studio with skylights and hardwood. It was beautiful. And she would lead us in these, in these meditations.
Sitting, we do like walking, chew, like eating like all this stuff that I know now is like, you know, Buddhist stuff. But at the time I hated, was physically uncomfortable, it was hard to sit still. But my dad, who was never religious or even spiritual, he knew he was, you know, he knew he was going to die soon. And so he felt that he needed something to ground him. And so that's what he did. And I was, I know now that I was lucky to be exposed to that. I probably went to those sessions maybe not even a half a dozen times, probably four times. And when he died I decided, and it wasn't with the clarity that I had, but I decided that I would do the work that I described before to understand the injustices, but I would also do my personal work and develop equanimity, develop, cultivate the healing for myself so that I could do the work more effectively.
So that's the origins of the, or the, the original origins. There are more recent stories that have deepened my appreciation and belief in the need for healing. But that was the, the original genesis of.
It. When you said yeah, your friend said was it? Amy said, big deal, you know, no big deal. No biggie whatever about your dad being gay. Completely, completely, completely resonate with that as you're saying that I was thinking the only person is technically a big deal for. And this is my own experience here is there is your wife, your partner, your husband or whatever it may be in that relationship. That's probably the only person who it's allowed to be a big deal for because it is so intrinsically linked to that other person, that contract you have in a relationship. Whereas if you're a parent, a child, a brother, sister, friend, big deal, it's yeah, get over it. And my wife, it was a big deal for her.
It was a big deal for her. Be gender transitioning. Everybody else was inconvenienced by it, everyone else was kind of having an opinion about it. But one person that it really mattered to was my wife and we were able to work through it. But, yeah, it was a big deal to.
Her. Well, it's interesting you share that because that's a good segue to the next part of the story, which is so what I've learned and come to understand about healing. This is a vast generalisation, but I think it's helpful just for this conversation, two things cultivate healing, two areas of mindset, connection and letting go. I don't know how much time we'll have to get into the details of what all those look like, but generally letting go doesn't mean ignoring or dismissing, just means being lighter. Right. Understanding what's going on for ourselves, for the world, for the people we care about and not carrying it so heavily and so, so often and so much where it impacts.
Your.
Right. It's where you're not.
Equanimous.
Right? And connection. Right. Connection to other people. Right. When we're doing this work, it can feel isolating. Right. People don't get it. People aren't changing like I'd like them to or as quickly as I'd like them to.
You know, where are my people? Like all these.
Things.
Right. And it's not just in social justice work, just in life. So it was about. Actually, I was sitting right here at this table. It's my dining room table, 12 years ago. 12, 13 years ago. And my mom was visiting. I have twins, they're 16 as of this recording, so they were like 4.
My mom was visiting and we were sitting at this table, it was a Friday night and we were playing cards is what we do. I, at the time, I had a. I had started a. I'd left teaching and I'd started a daddy blog, probably like in 2010, 11. So I had this blog for a couple years and it was, it was. It had some decent reach and, you know, I was in some writing communities and. And of course I was initially, I was writing about my kids and kind of more, you know, satirical stuff about being the father of twins and how, How. How hard it was and everything.
But then it started evolving. I started writing more about politics and my dad, and that was when I first started writing about my stories that I now very openly and easily share about, you know, some of what I've just shared and other stories. So my mom was a regular reader of the blog, but she was not a major character in any of the.
Stories.
So. And we talked about it a little bit. Like she'd leave a comment and you know, we go. But it was very superficial and I kind of dismissed her. So we're sitting here playing cards and out of nowhere. We weren't even talking about the blog. She just says, you know, Jared, you write a lot about how your dad being gay influenced you and your politics, but you never write about how he wasn't around to raise you. Mike.
Yeah, it's like, oh my God. And I don't remember the rest of that conversation. I'm sure it didn't. It wasn't like, oh, you're right, mom, like, it wasn't. It was. I probably had tried to go somewhere else and. But I remember that night very clearly and that was the beginning of. Or maybe not the beginning, but another clear marker of like.
That's right, connection. Here's my mom who. She was 19 when she had me. Hippie in the 60s. My dad was gay, he knew he was gay, but you don't come out as gay in the United or anywhere in 1970. So he meets this 17 year old girl, right, Move off to college town, get married when she's 18, I'm born, you know, a year, a year and a half later and then two years later my dad finally has the courage to say, hey, you know, this isn't working. And he does his own thing. So now my mom is 21 with a 2 year old with no education, no, no real skills, and raised me.
And yes, we grew up poor and it was all the things and you know, and saw my dad fairly regularly. But she's right, he wasn't, he wasn't around to raise me. And so I realised, or I started to realise and I know now like that connection, right, not just to my dad or to my mom, but connection to people and their stories and their realities that, you know, Brene Brown and others talk about this whole of like comparative suffering. Was it, you know, was my dad's life harder than my mom's? Yeah, probably, but who cares? Like they were both hard for, you know, for various reasons and if we dismiss that, where are we.
Right? What we end up doing is trading pain, isn't it? It's sort of, yeah, I've had it tougher than you have and it's. We all go through stuff, we all have our stuff to deal with and it's not about my life, is Tougher than yours. It's just, it's all relative, you know, it's, you know, if you got a million dollars in the bank and having a tough life because of something, it's a different experience than if you've got $5 in the bank and you're having a tough life. Your circumstances are all relative, aren't.
They? Well, they are. And I think, and I try to be very mindful of not being dogmatic with my, you know, Buddhist beliefs, but it's been 25, well, 26 years now, really, since I've kind of was introduced to some of these concepts of, like, equanimity and interconnectedness and. But we're. I mean, it sounds almost cliche or trite, but, like, we're all interconnected. And so I'll give you an example. I reached out to you, I don't know how long ago, A month ago? Not even a month ago. Probably three weeks.
Ago. Yeah, on LinkedIn. Yeah, on.
LinkedIn. You know, I have this new. This new coaching programme that we're launching, which we can talk about in a little bit. And we. We've been connected for, I don't know, four or five years. You know, like, just like LinkedIn does. Like, we're connected, but I don't remember you, and you probably didn't remember me, and I. So I reached out and said, hey, I know we've been connected for a while, and it was a template message.
Right. I know we've been connected for a while and here's this new thing and see if it resonates with you. So that's how you invited me to this podcast. Okay, great. That's a great result of the outreach. Well, similarly, I reached out to someone else who, similarly, we'd been connected for five years, but had no idea who they were and said this message and she responded. Before I continue this conversation, please point me to your organization's publicly displayed stance on the. On the genocide in Palestine.
Fair enough. We don't have one. I don't have a publicly displayed stance on the genocide in Palestine. So what I maybe should have done is just said, we don't have one. Thank you for your time. You know, next. But I chose curiosity over boundaries. And I said, hey, totally get that.
I am. I am aware that there's a genocide in Palestine. I believe there is one. I'm against it, but I've chosen and I try to give some philosophy of my equanimity in my life and all the things. And, you know, she went total ridicule and mockery. And what's the, what's the argument when you attack some ad hominem attacks? It's my character, which. And then I continue the conversation. Cause I'm like, okay.
Like, she's. And it just kept evolving and it was really. It was really immature. So then I said, okay, hey, obviously this isn't working. You know, she's making fun of the, of the programme that we were, that we were having. She was making fun of my, My outreach skill, you know, just anything she could do to belittle me. So I'm like, okay, I can handle that. Like, it's not about me, it's about her.
But it still doesn't feel good. But it wasn't like, it didn't. It didn't challenge my belief in what I was doing. But then I went and I had been trying to write a little bit more on LinkedIn just to, you know, kind of get. Get some, Some thought leadership out there. She went through about six or eight posts and used the laughing emoji. So that point I had to block her, which I don't like doing. But it was clear that she not only wasn't interested in what we had to offer, which is totally fine.
That's how sales works. Like, not everyone's gonna be like, yes, sign me up for your programme. But then it went that. And so I was thinking like, hmm, a healed person doesn't do that. And what was the impact of that for her? I don't know. I'll never know because obviously we're not gonna. She's not gonna have a conversation with me. I don't think she has a podcast and isn't gonna invite me on if she does.
So I share that as just a very recent example of what I'm. What I've been seeing for years and years, and I would never have done that, what she did, but 15 years ago. I do that type of stuff. Maybe not as extreme thinking that, because the cause is just that the. How the behaviour is acceptable and it's. It's.
Not. So I. I've been the brunt of other people's ad hominem attacks and laughing emojis on my posts. And you should look at my TikTok and my YouTube channel and all the comments on there. It's just. Yeah, it's all personal attacks. There's no argument. It's just attacking me, my voice, how I look, how.
Yeah, all this kind of. Well, and so.
Yeah. And I mean, I don't need to tell you this, Joanne like someone listening to this conversation right now might say, jared, you're a straight man. Joanne is a trans woman, like, who has it.
Harder. But.
That'S. That's not the point. It's the whole master's tools will never dismantle the master's house. Is that the goal of, you know, marginalised, oppressed people? To flip it so then they can. No, I don't think it is. Most of the people who I talk to, who I'm in relationship with, don't. That's not the goal. And A, that's not really possible.
And B, it's not sustainable. And so it's the shortsightedness of it that, you know, it doesn't get us where we're trying. It's just colluding. It hasn't changed me. I mean, I told her and she chose not to believe me, that. I mean, it's not that I disagree that there's a genocide in Palestine or that it. That it's bad or that it's harmful or that it should stop. I agree with all that.
And, you know, her mocking me doesn't make the genocide.
End. What it did was it shut down an opportunity for education. Because I'd love to have a conversation with people about their perspective on what's happening. I've got friends on both sides of the equation who live in that region and I hear different opinions. I've spent some time in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and Bethlehem and places like that on work conferences and things, meeting the people. And I've got people in this country who have strong opinions on both sides. And my view is the death, the killing of the lives being ruined, the carpet bombing of property and the destruction of assets and wealth. Completely abhorrent.
But beyond who's right and wrong, we just stop it. And then we can work out how we get from where we are now to where we need to be, which is getting people back into life and getting things moving. I think we have to unpack all of the why and the blame. We'll just spend all our time blaming each other and throwing. Throwing more missiles, either words or things. We're not going to solve it, but we need to. We need to bury our. Bury our prisoners of our beliefs and just say, hang on a minute.
Holding onto where we are now is not going to change.
Anything. Yeah, well, that. I mean, you use the word holding on. And as I said a little bit ago, what I've come to understand is two things lead to healing, letting go. So not letting go of fighting for justice but letting go of the, the dogma, the, the us versus them, all the things, right? And then connection wants to be.
Right. People want to be right, don't.
They? Well, when you were, when you were summarising kind of, you know, what I had shared, I thought of a phrase that I learned recently in a book called Cultish. I forget the author, but she was writing about just, yes, like actual cults, like Manson and you know, Jonestown and stuff, but all just the kind of the, the cultish mindset around things, even like marketing and everything. And she said, you know, when, when you know, a leader or a member of a group. And I would say if you've read Woke racism by John McWhorter, he talks about this like the, the Woke mob is kind of a cult. It's like this religion, right? Like either here's, here's the right way to believe and if you, if you deviate from that, then you're going to be excommunicated is, you know, the, the extent of the analogy. Right. But this author in Cultists, she, she introduced a phrase that I hadn't heard before called a thought, a thought terminating.
Cliche. Okay.
Cool. So I don't know exactly what this woman who I was talking about, what she would have said that would exactly fit that as a thought terminating cliche. But the whole exchange was a thought terminating cliche. She wasn't interested in dialogue, she wasn't interested in nuance. She was interested in I didn't meet her standards and that was not okay. And therefore I was eligible for mockery, ridicule, et cetera. So in the grand scheme of things, that's pretty minor. Like I have equanimity, I can handle it.
I'm not, I don't take it personally, but like that kind of nonsense happens all the time. And so I'm finding there seems to be a divide. Maybe not a divide, a continuum, I think is a better word of people who are somewhere on their awareness of what healing is and looks like and the need for it personally and as a society from, let's take this woman probably isn't interested in it at all. Although I don't really know because I'm not going to have that conversation with her. To people who like, yeah, like. One of my favourite thinkers and writers is Lama Rod Owens. He's a queer black man and he's a, he's a, you know, a lama, ordained Buddhist lama. And he's written a couple books.
His first one was called Love and Rage. And it gets at exactly this dynamic, the world is messed up. It has been for a long time and it's personally affected me as a gay black man and I'm just gonna self destruct if I don't change. And so he, he did, he has, he is. And his new book, newish book is called the New Saints. He's like, how do we, how do we hold all of this complexity and nuance without self destructing, without giving up or compromising our values, but also without self and self destructing and causing more chaos, more destruction to others. So it's people like him who have lived it much more deeply than I have, who I'm learning from. And there are people out there who are toward that end of the continuum of understanding and appreciation and action.
But there's still a lot of people who are the social justice warriors who think that the cause is just so. The behaviour is.
Just. What you're trying to do is you're trying to. You're waterboarding people really, aren't you? You're just pouring water and hoping you drink this, drink this, drink this, drink this. Not allowing people to breathe. When you're that passionate, you think that everybody thinks like you or you want everyone to think like you and be angry like you and you're all this baggage. Yes, it's important that people hear your story. What. We're not trying to divide up between the what you believe and the why you believe it.
This scenario you talked about here, you never had the opportunity to understand the why. Why are you so passionate about this topic? If you lost a loved one, if something happened, your personal attack on you, this is why you're so angry, so fired up. You never got the point to build empathy, you just built, as you said, it's at the beginning. Shutting down or fighting back. She was fighting back. You were shutting down. There was no way of. I'm out.
Goodbye. We're now asking these questions. We want to know what her passion was, why she had this. All that educational purpose has been lost because the disengagement.
Happened. Yeah, well, to her it was very clear as I'm processing it, or translating it, I guess, right is there's a genocide, it's wrong. People need to fight for it, do whatever they can, even if it's small. You're not meaning me, you're not. I don't see anything that demonstrates that you're, you know, at the level of understanding and agreement with me. So therefore you are, and I learned this term recently, an unreal.
Other.
Okay. Which I mean, that's basically what historical oppression does to trans people, to gay people, to black people, to poor people, to immigrants, to.
Right. They're unreal, others so dehumanising.
Basically. Dehumanising, Right. Because if you dehumanise, if she comes to this quick, you know, conclusion that I don't get it, don't care, ignoring, you know, basking in my privilege about the genocide in. In Palestine, then I'm an unreal Other, then I don't. There's no need. There's no need to have empathy, curiosity, compassion for me because, you know, I don't deserve it. Which is exactly what Israel is doing to Palestine. And count dozens, hundreds, thousands of examples from history that exactly the same type of thinking.
Right. And so we're just repeating, you know, we're colluding. There's a great book called the the Anatomy of Peace by the Arbinger Institute. And the main thrust of it is when our heart is at war, as to use their language, which doesn't mean hard at war, doesn't mean we're angry, we're upset, we're seeing something that needs to change. It just means how are we processing those emotions. So if our heart's at war, whether it's an interpersonal conflict or a global conflict, there will never be resolution. Never. We're just colluding.
And so that's where I've landed the last couple years is. It's a clarity, Joanne. It's a clarity of like, I don't believe any less, any less than I used to about the injustices in the world, but I also see more clearly about what's not working for me and for all of us, and I'm not gonna be part of that collusion and anymore. And I'm.
Not. So calling it in rather than calling it out, just be partly educated rather than the stop.
Sign. That's a. Yeah, that's a way to summarise it, I'd say to use that language. My calling in is doing the coaching that I do, right? Is who's ready, who sees this, even just a little bit, and knows that there's a better way, but for whatever reason, hasn't gone that route yet. So that's where I. That's. That's my version of calling in, hey, I'm calling you in to do some. Some deep inner work, some mirror work.
You got the lens part pretty down. I trust that you understand the issues and you see why there's a, you know, why there's problematic things going on and why they need to change. I'm not questioning until you show otherwise. I'm going to trust that you got that part down. What I am seeing very clearly is that you don't have the inner part going on. So if you're interested in that, because you can't, you know, this woman that I told the story, she's not going to be a coaching client of mine. Although, I mean, you know, she could be. She's a good candidate based on her behaviours.
But, you know, if you're not interested in going there, I mean, just like any coaching, like, you're not gonna, you know, it's like kids taking piano. If they don't want to do it, they're not gonna. They're not gonna do.
It. So, yeah, I mean, as you pointed out, you know, you reached out to me with potentially the same message you reached out to her with. Clearly it was a template. Clearly it was a salesy kind of like, yep, do you want to do my coaching programme? Pay me a hundred dollars or whatever it was. You've got two choices at that point there. You can either get sort of like abusive trend or disconnect or whatever it is. And depending on what mood I'm in, quite. Sometimes I'll just sit there and playfully say, not for me, but if you want to come and talk about my podcast, let's do it sort of thing.
And that's what I'd.
Hear. Yeah. So here's. Who was it? I can't remember who it was. It was someone you wouldn't think of, but there was this. So I was. I'm also a certified purpose coach. So like seven, eight years ago, I got my purpose coaching certification.
It's all about like leadership style and intrinsic motivation and kind of what motivates you to. To make impact and to do the things you do and stuff. So it's all integrated into all this. But so purpose, right? This idea of purpose is like intrinsic motivation, meaning authenticity. And there's, you know, all kinds of different angles one could go into, like, what is your purpose? But sometimes people, oftentimes people conflate purpose with passion. So the passion, you know, people. I don't like to use the word passion. I don't mind if other people do, but I don't personally use it.
I don't consider myself a passionate person. If people want to, you know, describe me as that, that's. That's fine. But this woman, this author, I can picture her doing this little mini TED Talk, but I don't know who she is. She says sometimes our passion because we're so passionate, and it gets so charged because we're so passionate about whatever it is we're passionate about gets in the way of our purpose. So that our purpose, our true why, doesn't really actualize. So to me, that is a nice little encapsulation of, like, what healing means. How do you let go? Which, again, doesn't mean ignore or, you know, kind of get rid of stuff you care about, but how do you let go of that passion so that your purpose can come through? And I think that's part of.
That's a lot of the work that I do is people see that inflation a little more.
Clearly. Back to the ad hominem attacks technique I found that seems to work for me. Is I a bit like in the Matrix where Neos or, like. And the bullet goes flying straight past? I kind of try and do that because the person who's attacking me doesn't know me, knows nothing about my values or anything like this. They're using this stereotypical Persona of me, and I always think of it. It's just what they're doing is they're spraying graffiti on a wall. It's just raising angry words on a wall. And I drive down the street and I see the graffiti on the wall.
Okay. It makes me feel worried and threatened because it's there, but it's just graffiti. And all I've got to do is just keep driving and drive past it. So I'm doing that sort of, Neo, bullet passes me, they're attacking me, and all they're really doing is spraying graffiti on a wall behind me. And it's not. It's not about me. It's about their anger about something, and it's not about me. So I'm able to, you know, this equanimity you talk about being able to hold this space.
I don't absorb it. I just go, whoa. Yeah, okay, well, it's not me. You're talking about somebody else here. Because if you knew me, you would not say.
That. Exactly. And even that's a beautiful analogy with the metaphor I can picture, especially living in Oakland, San Francisco. There's lots of graffiti around, some of it actually quite beautiful. But that's a whole nother.
Conversation. Yeah. Street.
Art. Yeah, but exactly. There's another. I mean, I'm a big reader. If I was downstairs, you'd see my big library. But another book that I. That has been fundamental, foundational for my belief system is the Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. And it's interesting when I bring up that book either people go like, oh, my gosh, I love that book.
If they've heard of it, Right? I love that book where they go, yeah, that's like pop spirituality, which is totally fair. It's like, you know, 150 pages. But for me, the four agreements. The first agreement is don't take anything personally. I'm sorry. The second agreement is don't take anything personally. And in the book, he says, nothing anybody ever does is because of you. It's always because of themselves.
So that. Now, that doesn't mean it's easy to take the. You know. But that's what we do. We know that foundationally and we process that. And maybe we need coaching or therapy or other sources of support, but if we know that that's not about us, and if we feel confident that we're acting in alignment with our values and integrity, the more we practise that, the more we can see it clearly for what it is. Right. I'm not a cause of the genocide in Palestine.
No matter how much this woman wants to paint it as that, it's about her.
Right. But collectively, we can. We can all agree, need to stop. Whatever's going on needs to stop. And we as a world need to help people rebuild and press pause on what's going on at the moment. Have conversations. Yeah, yeah. And me putting a statement on my website won't do that, but I will speak up about my opinion in situations where it's relevant completely all the.
Time. Well, I'm. I'm inspired by. You brought up Nelson Mandela, like, you know, Thich Nhat Hanh, who just died a few years ago, actually, on my kid's birthday, I think it was two years ago, three years ago, you know, he was a Vietnamese Buddhist monk who got exiled during the Vietnam War because he was speaking up, you know, and he wasn't saved. So he. I can't remember if he ever eventually did go back or not, but basically, he never got. You know, he didn't really get to ever go back to his country and he continued his work and he died, I think he was 1995. So for 60 years, he was doing his.
You know, what was his phrase that he used? Like, active Buddhism or something like that. So it was, you know, people think of Buddhism like, oh, go in a cave in the hills and meditate for 20 years. It's like, yeah, people do do that. But the real purpose is to understand clearly so you can enact change in whatever ways you need to do. And in his case, you know, he was a writer, he was a speaker, he was training other people to, you know, to see things. Hilarious. So this whole argument of like, oh, if you were really, really impacted by things, you would think differently. No, I don't, I don't, I don't buy into that as a, as a kind of wholesale philosophy.
Yes. Are there people who are privileged and ignorant? Yes, of course. But, you know, that's not a default blanket statement that applies really for anything about.
Anyone. Is the world getting more polarised or are we just seeing it through our current lens? You know, social media, the mainstream media pushing people against each other, driving revenue from clicks and anger. And is it, are we getting worse? Is this ever going to end or is it just a symptom of the.
Times? It's hard to, I mean, I'm not a, I'm not a scholar of like, you know, journalistic and social media and media trends, but I, whenever I see someone or a report or an article or something, kind of say, like, you know, times are worse now than they ever have been. I always wonder, like, is that true? Like, I mean, I don't know. So I don't know the answer to that, Joanne, you know, comparatively now versus then or, you know, another time. But I will say that it's the way we interact with each other, whether it's online, like on, I mean, I'm only on LinkedIn and even decreasingly these days as well, does contribute to everything we've been talking about and not just this story that I've shared, you know, with this woman. That's a, that's an extreme example. But even just the little ways that we interact with each other or don't. The ways. And I'm sure if you asked a hundred people to tell you about the LinkedIn algorithm, you'd get a hundred different, you know, examples of why it's messed up and how we can't figure it out.
So I'm, I'm the hunter. I don't know how it works, but I do believe it does reward provocative. And I, because I used to be a much, a much more frequent writer on LinkedIn five, four, five, six years ago, and I noticed like, okay, I'm going to write a post. If I write it this way, it's going to go. If I write it this way, it's likely to get a lot of. And for the most part, I, I was right. And so, you know, did I contribute to what we're seeing? Yeah, probably. And that's part of the healing process is I'm not Gonna.
I'm not gonna do that.
Anymore. Which. Which is more successful? A million views, hundreds of reactions and comments, or 5 views and someone takes action to the positive. Someone taking action is the objective. If it's just people clicking and getting torn up, that's not. That's not. That's not change. That's just outrage.
Isn't.
Is. It's What's. There's a phrase. Is it like. There's like outrage bait or something like.
That? Yeah, clickbait. Outrage bait. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Just. So you're just fueling it. Fueling the trolls, aren't you? You're not careful. Yeah.
Well. And, you know, at the heart of all this, Joanne, is. Which is. I don't know. I don't know if it's really an elephant or not, but it's capitalism. Like, we all have to make money and LinkedIn is a social, you know, professional networking platform. And, you know, you gotta try and in whatever you're, Whether it's direct, through messages or writing posts, you're trying to sell, you know, who you are, your positioning, your branding, Maybe you're trying to sell a specific service or a, you know, product, like. And that's what capitalism breeds.
It breeds, you know, competition, and it breeds, you know, us versus them. And this kind of, you know, scarcity mindset, which we're all. I know I've been guilty of it often and I, you know, I'm trying. I try to be aware of it and kind of cultivate the opposite when, just like anyone else, I need to make money as.
Well. Yeah, don't we all. So if you're writing a. If you. If you're writing a book called Equanimity for Dummies, what would be your top two or three things to take away from.
This? I would say start and practise a meditation. A.
Meditation.
Practise. Cultivate inner peace and clarity proactively. It's not like, oh, my gosh, something bad happened. Let me go meditate, okay? I feel better. No, that's not what it's about. We meditate so we can cultivate the behaviours and the mindsets that we want to have. When the hard stuff happens, that's the inner work again, it doesn't have to be meditation. That's what I've chosen, the Buddhist kind of meditation, mindfulness path.
There are other ways that work for people, but that's what I would say is if you have that practise and you've kind of been dabbling in dabbling in it, like concretize it, do it because it's gonna save you and it's gonna save us, I would say, which, that will help you do these other things, which is centre on two things that are going to promote your own healing. Connection, true connection, whether it's with people you know well and love and maybe live with or any interaction online, at the grocery store, in the community, in traffic centre, connection, however small, and resist the urge to other, to gossip, to dismiss, to ridicule, to mock. You can disagree, but really be so the other, the first agreement of the four agreements is be impeccable with your word. And the other thing related to the healing is the letting go. How can we be have firm beliefs and conviction in those beliefs, but remove the charge. So that's a skill that people can and do cultivate where you can say whether you're a speaker, you're a coach, you're a podcast host, you're whatever your role is, you're right, you're a thought Leader on LinkedIn. You can write with conviction and clarity and purpose without being an asshole. Because yeah, there are going to be people who will already agree with you.
They're like, yeah, but then what about the people who see you as an asshole and maybe would have agreed or been interested in what you're saying if you weren't an asshole? So it's really individual choice. So those are my.
Insights. Everything you're saying sounds to me this is what emotional intelligence is built on. The self awareness, self management, it's all about that. So obviously emotional intelligence is built on Buddhist ideals and.
Equanimity. Well, it's emotional regulation. And so, you know, a common argument I've, you know, had or seen or been part of or witnessed is, you know, don't tell me, you know, who you white guy to tell me how to react, to feel like I'm not telling you how to. I'm, I'm, I'm inviting you to see things differently and to see the consequences of your behaviour. Oh, well, is that more important than, you know, black people getting killed by the police? No, not at all. But what you're doing isn't stopping black people getting killed by the police or pick your unjust cause that we all know is happening and needs to end. So it really.
Is. It.
Is. As you said, it's eq, it's, it's self awareness, it's emotional regulation. I guess there's a term kind of in, in the. What's it? Emotional sobriety, which I've come to kind Of. I like that. I like that.
Term. So there's been a. An amazing conversation. We've been yakking away for an hour and a half bit in the green room and we've. We're probably overrun on this episode. I could keep chat to you all day. In fact, I'm tempted to jump on a plane, come to Oakland, we'll have a. Go to that fish restaurant.
Go to that fish restaurant I mentioned earlier that I went to with HR West. But, yeah, and I'd love to hire another car and go up to the Redlands and all the redwood forests and things like that and just, just chill out for a.
Day. So, yeah, you're welcome.
Anytime. Superb. So how can people get hold of you? You mentioned you have a huge amount of social media, so that. What's the best way of tracking you.
Down? Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn, just Jared Karol, J A R E D K A R O L. You can search for me on LinkedIn. Also the co founder with my partner, Cornell. Three Arrows Coaching LLC. There's another one or two Three Arrows Coaching on LinkedIn. So if you are looking for that on LinkedIn, type in the LLC. You'll find us our programme. Our coaching programme is called the three arrows of life.
So just three arrowsoflife.com and you'll get to learn a little bit more about that programme and how to. How to be part of it, if this is something that you're interested in. Also, we didn't talk about this. I think we mentioned it before we started recording. But I'm also a vinyl dj, so if you are in the Bay Area and you're looking for, you know, private parties or, you know, corporate events, you can go to djmaju.com m a j u d j m a j u.com and learn about the vinyl DJing offerings there. I think that's.
It. Brilliant. Brilliant. So if you do connect with Jared and he does send you a outreach on LinkedIn, rather than just shoot him down, invite him on your own podcast and have a good chat because it's been absolutely fascinating and I've found a friend from four and a half thousand, 5,000 miles away and it's been fantastic. Thank you. Thank you so.
Much. The feeling is. Richel, thank you. Glad to be.
Here. As we bring this conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your ear and heart to the cause of inclusion. Today's discussion struck a chord. Consider subscribing to inclusion bites and become part of our ever growing community driving real change. Share this journey with friends, family and colleagues. Let's amplify the voices that.
Matter. Got thoughts, stories or a vision to.
Share? I'm all ears. Reach out out to jo.lockwood@serchangehappen.co.uk and let's make your voice heard. Until next time, this is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return with more enriching narratives that challenge, inspire and unite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world one episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.
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Episode Category
Primary Category: Wellbeing
Secondary Category: Emotional Intelligence
🔖 Titles
Healing at the Heart: Equanimity, Emotional Intelligence, and Sustainable Social Change
Cultivating Equanimity in Difficult Conversations: From Passion to Purpose
Navigating Social Justice Work with Emotional Balance and Connection
Why Healing and Connection Drive Lasting Change in Inclusion and Belonging
Emotional Intelligence as the Foundation for Transformative Social Justice
How Inner Work and Letting Go Fuel Effective Activism
Equanimity, Empathy, and the Art of Sustainable Change
Moving from Outrage to Healing: The Journey of Inclusion
Building Inclusive Cultures Through Mindful Dialogue and Compassion
The Role of Healing and Connection in Difficult Conversations for Social Impact
A Subtitle - A Single Sentence describing this episode
Jared Karol explores the intersection of social change and personal healing, illuminating the power of equanimity, self-awareness, and connection to foster sustainable activism and transformative inclusion.
Episode Tags
Healing Centred Leadership, Equanimity in Action, Social Change, Emotional Intelligence, Inclusive Conversations, Personal Transformation, Mindful Advocacy, Overcoming Marginalisation, Connection and Letting Go, Sustainable Activism
Episode Summary with Intro, Key Points and a Takeaway
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood welcomes Jared Karol for a deep dive into the complexities of healing, social change, and the art of navigating difficult conversations. The discussion opens with the concept of equanimity, exploring how composure and self-awareness can transform the ways we engage in challenging and emotionally charged scenarios. Joanne and Jared dissect the dynamics between shutting down and fighting back when faced with marginalisation or oppression, highlighting the nuanced ground needed for genuine dialogue. They examine the progression from fervent activism to sustainable advocacy, referencing historic figures and drawing parallels to personal growth within social justice work.
Jared is a personal development coach at the intersection of healing and social change, helping individuals show up consciously, courageously, and sustainably. He describes his superpower as bringing equanimity to tough conversations, thus fostering honest engagement without resorting to combative or withdrawn responses. Sharing his lived experience as the son of a gay father who died during the AIDS crisis, Jared openly discusses his own journey through privilege and marginalisation. He emphasises the importance of inner work alongside outward activism, advocating for mindfulness and healing as critical components of lasting impact. His approach is practical and compassionate, applying Buddhist philosophy and emotional intelligence to bridge divides within the sphere of diversity, equity, and inclusion.
Throughout the episode, Joanne and Jared consider the balance between passion and purpose, the pitfalls of performative outrage, and the role of emotional regulation in creating societal change. They discuss the need to move beyond binary confrontations towards connection, empathy, and sustainable advocacy. A key takeaway is the transformative potential of healing-centred activism, where inner reflection and equanimity enable inclusive, impactful conversations that avoid perpetuating conflict. Listeners are encouraged to critically reflect upon their own “how” in creating change and subscribe for more honest, nuanced discussions that inspire positive action.
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 Maintain balance and composure through life's ups and downs.
06:32 A formerly dismissive teacher embraced new perspectives on history and social issues, initially being overly dogmatic, before realising the need for a more constructive approach.
14:50 Reflecting on personal and collective growth fosters awareness without requiring extraordinary life events.
16:26 The book advocates shifting from trauma-informed work to healing-centred approaches, starting with self-reflection ("lens to mirror") to address one's role in perpetuating the status quo, inspired by marginalised voices.
24:33 Exposure to Buddhist practices helped the narrator's father find grounding before his death, and inspired them to pursue personal growth and healing alongside addressing injustices.
26:51 Healing involves two key mindsets: connection and letting go, which entails understanding without carrying burdens heavily.
35:14 Blocked someone on LinkedIn for mocking posts with laughing emojis.
39:34 The text discusses the book Cultish (author forgotten) exploring cult-like mindsets in groups, marketing, and ideologies, introducing the concept of a "thought-terminating" phrase.
47:42 You grasp the issues well but lack inner understanding; coaching may help if you're interested.
49:55 Passion can hinder purpose; healing involves letting go to actualise true intent.
56:03 Uncertainty about whether times are worse now than before, and reflection on how online interactions, including LinkedIn, influence social dynamics.
01:00:04 Practise connection and letting go; foster healing by engaging meaningfully, avoiding negativity, and expressing beliefs with conviction yet humility.
01:05:10 Thank you for listening; subscribe to Inclusion Bites, share, and amplify voices for change.
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 "The Art of Equanimity"
06:32 Reflecting on Personal Growth
14:50 Path to Collective Awareness
16:26 "From Lens to Mirror"
24:33 Finding Grounding Through Adversity
26:51 Healing Through Connection and Release
35:14 Blocking Negative LinkedIn Response
39:34 "Thought-Terminating Clichés"
47:42 Lens vs Inner Development
49:55 "Passion vs Purpose"
56:03 "Modern Interaction and Perception"
01:00:04 Healing Through Connection and Letting Go
01:05:10 "Join the Inclusion Journey"
Custom LinkedIn Post
🎙️ 𝗧𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗪𝗲𝗲𝗸 𝗼𝗻 𝗜𝗻𝗰𝗹𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝗕𝗶𝘁𝗲𝘀: 𝗛𝗲𝗮𝗹𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗮𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗛𝗲𝗮𝗿𝘁 🎙️
💥 What if approaching discomfort and disagreement with calm could transform your next tough conversation? Challenge your beliefs in just 60 seconds! 💥
This week, I’m delighted to introduce Jared Karol, a personal development coach working at the crossroads of social change and healing. Jared’s superpower? Bringing equanimity to difficult conversations, so people stay present and open, instead of shutting down or fighting back.
Together, we uncover:
🔑 𝗘𝗾𝘂𝗮𝗻𝗶𝗺𝗶𝘁𝘆 𝗶𝗻 𝗗𝗲𝗲𝗽 𝗖𝗼𝗻𝘃𝗲𝗿𝘀𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝘀 – Why composure matters when emotions run high, and how it nurtures healthier workplaces.
🔑 𝗟𝗲𝘁𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗚𝗼 & 𝗖𝗼𝗻𝗻𝗲𝗰𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 – The art of releasing our need to be 'right' and building genuine human connections that foster healing.
🔑 𝗪𝗵𝘆 “𝗗𝗼𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗪𝗼𝗿𝗸” 𝗺𝗲𝗮𝗻𝘀 𝗼𝘂𝘁𝗲𝗿 & 𝗶𝗻𝗻𝗲𝗿 𝗰𝗵𝗮𝗻𝗴𝗲 – Exploring how healing-centred activism leads to sustainable progress in EDI.
Why Listen?
"Inclusion is about understanding, and this episode is packed with insights to help you create more #PositivePeopleExperiences."
About the Podcast
Each week on Inclusion Bites, I bring you thought-provoking conversations that spark real change—because here, we challenge, reflect, and disrupt the status quo.
What’s your take? 💭
Have you ever stayed “equanimous” in the face of challenge? Share your thoughts below 👇 or tell us how you cultivate healing and connection in tough situations.
🎧 Listen to the full episode and join the movement: https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen
#PositivePeopleExperiences #SmileEngageEducate #InclusionBites #Podcasts #Shorts #Equanimity #HealingCentred #WorkplaceCulture #SocialChange #EmotionalIntelligence
Don't forget to like, subscribe, follow, and share with anyone passionate about making inclusion real. With SEE Change Happen and Jared Karol.
TikTok/Reels/Shorts Video Summary
Focus Keyword: Healing at the Heart
Video Title: Healing at the Heart: Culture Change Starts Within | #InclusionBitesPodcast
Tags: healing at the heart, culture change, positive people experiences, inclusion, belonging, diversity, equanimity, societal transformation, emotional intelligence, mindfulness, personal development, workplace inclusion, inclusive culture, challenge the status quo, healing, empathy, human connection, transformation, sustainable change, social justice, courage, safe spaces, promote healing, mental health, impactful stories
Killer Quote: "How can we have firm beliefs and conviction, but remove the charge? We can write with conviction and purpose without being an arsehole." – Jared Karol
Hashtags: #HealingAtTheHeart, #CultureChange, #PositivePeopleExperiences, #InclusionBitesPodcast, #Inclusivity, #Belonging, #DiversityMatters, #Mindfulness, #SocialChange, #Equanimity, #Empathy, #EmotionalIntelligence, #PersonalGrowth, #ChangeMaker, #SustainableChange, #Transformation, #SafeSpaces, #Community, #InclusiveLeadership, #SEEChangeHappen
Summary Description:
Curious about what real culture change looks like? In this punchy short from the Inclusion Bites Podcast, I dive into the heart of "Healing at the Heart" with personal development coach Jared Karol, exploring how true transformation starts within. This episode unpacks how Positive People Experiences and equanimity fuel lasting change—far beyond surface-level inclusion. If you want to create an impact and nurture belonging, you’ll discover why self-awareness and inner healing matter just as much as external activism. Listen in for raw insights and practical wisdom to drive meaningful change in your organisation, your life, and beyond. Ready to move the dial on culture change? Watch, share, and ignite your spark for inclusion!
Outro:
Thank you so much for tuning in! If you found this conversation inspiring, please like and subscribe to the channel for more transformative stories about inclusion and culture change. There’s plenty more to explore on the SEE Change Happen website: https://seechangehappen.co.uk.
Listen to the full episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast at https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen.
Stay curious, stay kind, and stay inclusive – Joanne Lockwood
ℹ️ Introduction
Welcome to another compelling instalment of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, hosted by Joanne Lockwood. In this episode, “Healing at the Heart,” we welcome Jared Karol—personal development coach, social change agent, and advocate for healing-centred leadership. Together, Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol unpack the pivotal role of equanimity in social justice work, drawing on personal stories and lived experience to illustrate how composure, self-awareness, and empathy can transform conflict into connection.
The conversation explores what it means to “do the work” of inclusion—beyond simply waking up to injustice—and why both societal progress and personal healing are essential for real, sustainable change. From navigating difficult conversations without shutting down, to understanding the complex intersections of privilege and marginalisation, this episode deftly challenges listeners to reflect on how anger, purpose, and passion can either divide or unite us. Expect bold insights, practical wisdom, and a fresh perspective on how we can foster belonging, build bridges, and create communities where everyone thrives.
Plug in and prepare for a thought-provoking journey—because at the heart of inclusion, it’s our capacity to heal and connect that drives us forward.
💬 Keywords
inclusion, belonging, societal transformation, equanimity, personal development, social change, healing, difficult conversations, privilege, oppression, marginalisation, discrimination, social justice, activism, protest, political change, coaching, emotional intelligence, emotional regulation, trauma-informed, healing-centred, mindfulness, Buddhism, empathy, awareness, inner work, connection, letting go, community, dialogue
About this Episode
About The Episode:
This episode features Jared Karol, a personal development coach who works at the nexus of social change and healing. Together, we delve into the role of equanimity in navigating marginalisation, challenging conversations, and sustaining authentic impact in inclusion work. Jared’s experience and reflections offer practical perspectives on cultivating emotional resilience, meaningful connection, and healing-centred activism.
Today, we’ll cover:
Strategies for maintaining composure and presence in difficult conversations about equity, privilege, and social justice.
How to approach healing as a lifelong process, including the importance of both “lens” (outward change) and “mirror” (self-reflection) perspectives.
Understanding the continuum of activism, from protest and anger through to advocacy and sustainable social change.
Ways to avoid polarisation and build dialogue, including practical approaches to calling in rather than calling out.
How emotional intelligence, self-regulation, and letting go of dogma enable more effective engagement and transformation.
The significance of life experience and personal awakening in recognising privilege, oppression, and collective suffering.
Actionable insights on fostering connection, avoiding comparative suffering, and building empathy even when opinions differ.
Listen in for tools and mindsets that help anyone committed to inclusion act with clarity, intention, and compassion.
💡 Speaker bios
Joanne Lockwood is the founder and host of "Inclusion Bites," a thought-provoking platform dedicated to bold conversations around inclusion, belonging, and social change. As a passionate advocate for societal transformation, Joanne guides listeners through engaging discussions that challenge the status quo and shine a light on often-unseen stories. Driven by the belief that everyone deserves not just to belong, but to thrive, she invites her audience to connect, reflect, and take action, fostering a welcoming space where every voice matters. Whether over morning coffee or at the close of a busy day, Joanne encourages others to join her in sparking conversations that inspire real change.
💡 Speaker bios
Jared Karol’s story is one deeply grounded in the belief that our greatest growth comes from meeting life's ups and downs with composure and poise. Whether in moments of hardship or joy, Jared brings a thoughtful presence to every conversation, encouraging others to face challenges calmly without succumbing to despair or self-deception. He inspires people to find balance—not to get swept away by adversity, nor overly elated by success. For Jared, this balanced approach is the heart of the human experience, guiding himself and others alike to respond with mindfulness, humility, and resilience in all things—trivial, serious, and everything in between.
❇️ Key topics and bullets
Certainly! Here’s a comprehensive sequence of the topics covered in the transcript, with sub-topic bullets outlined under each main theme:
1. Introduction to Inclusion Bites and Episode Context
Framing the podcast as a space for bold, change-making conversations around inclusion and belonging
Joanne Lockwood introduces the guest, Jared Karol, and highlights his work at the intersection of social change and healing
2. Personal Connections and Shared Experiences
Conversation about living in Oakland, California, and previous visits to the area
Shared interest in football (soccer) as a tool for cultural and geographical understanding
3. Defining ‘Equanimity’ and Its Relevance
Jared Karol explains ‘equanimity’ as composure, poise, and calmness when facing challenges
The significance of maintaining emotional balance and presence in difficult conversations
4. Reactions to Oppression and Marginalisation
Joanne Lockwood discusses the common responses: shutting down or fighting back
Exploring the challenges of engaging with difficult dialogue without succumbing to these extremes
5. Jared Karol’s Personal Development Journey
Reflecting on his privilege as a cisgender, straight, white man and the impetus to do social justice work
The influential role of his father, who was a gay man and passed away from AIDS, motivating his commitment to DEI
6. Early Approaches to Social Justice Work and Personal Evolution
Jared Karol's initial ‘social justice warrior’ attitude: dogmatic, acerbic, and driven by new revelations
Recognition of the ineffectiveness of righteousness and the maturing into a more sustainable approach
7. Balancing Activism: The Arc of Change
The need for different approaches—direct activism versus political and nuanced lobbying
Referencing historical leaders (e.g., Mandela, King) who shifted from protest to pragmatic leadership
The ‘why, what, and how’ model for organising social change roles, noting the necessity of an ecosystem (caretakers, educators, facilitators, etc.)
8. The Power and Practice of Healing
Reference to trauma-informed vs. healing-centred approaches in social change (inspired by thinkers like Dr. Shawn Ginwright)
The importance of personal ‘mirror’ work (self-reflection and changing from within)
Noting diverse influences, especially people of colour, LGBTQ+ people, and those with lived marginalisation
9. Privilege, Marginalisation, and the Awakening of Empathy
Joanne Lockwood recounts her own transition into marginalisation and awareness of injustice
The difficulty of grasping others’ lived experience without direct or analogous reference points
10. Doing the Work—Internal and External
Redefining ‘doing the work’ to encompass both social education and deep inner healing
Jared Karol recounts his youth, the secrecy and eventual acceptance of his father’s sexuality, and the influence of Buddhist mindfulness practices
11. Connection and Letting Go as Healing Pillars
Emphasis on human connection (with family, community, and broader society) as central to individual and collective healing
The necessity of ‘letting go’—not ignoring struggle, but carrying it more lightly to prevent self-destruction and burnout
12. Equanimity in Action: Navigating Conflict and Online Discourse
Jared Karol shares a case study from LinkedIn, facing ridicule and mockery in activism spaces
The challenge of engaging with ‘woke’ or highly polarised interactions, dealing with ad hominem attacks, and choosing boundaries versus curiosity
13. Empathy, Dehumanisation, and the Social Justice Continuum
Identification of the ‘unreal other’ concept, highlighting dehumanisation in activist circles as mirroring oppressive tactics
The risk of perpetuating cycles of blame, outrage, and ineffective change
14. Behaviour Change and Emotional Regulation
Critique of ‘purpose’ being eclipsed by unchecked ‘passion’
The importance of emotional intelligence, self-regulation, and the value of Buddhist-derived practices (e.g., the Four Agreements, emotional sobriety)
15. The Influence of Social Media and Capitalism
Consideration of whether society is more polarised, and the role of media algorithms in fuelling outrage and us-vs-them mindsets
Reflecting on the capitalist incentives underpinning engagement, branding, and competition online
16. Practical Wisdom: Cultivating Equanimity
Jared Karol’s advice: regular meditation or comparable inner work, nurturing connection, resisting the urge to ‘other’ or ridicule, and holding convictions without aggression
17. Closing Reflections and Contact Information
Final thoughts on the ongoing journey of inclusion and healing
Details on connecting with Jared Karol (LinkedIn, Three Arrows Coaching, DJ work)
Joanne Lockwood invites listeners to contribute to the podcast and keep fostering inclusion
This structured sequence reflects the full breadth and depth of the episode's content, providing a clear roadmap for anyone wishing to revisit or analyse the conversation thematically.
The Hook
Ever found yourself wound up and ready to bite back... or forced to just shrink away when a conversation gets tough? What if you could stay calm, present—and actually create real change, right there in the heat of the moment? Welcome to the heart of emotional power. Ready to dial into the art of equanimity?
Have you ever wondered—what if there’s a way to transform outrage, stress, or the weight of injustice... into genuine clarity and impact? Imagine replacing your old reactions with something that actually changes the room (and maybe even the world). Old rules or something new?
“Don’t take anything personally.” Easier said than done, right? But what if mastering that skill unlocked a whole new level of leadership and influence—without losing your fire or your voice? Disrupt. Heal. Lead. But first... are you brave enough to look in the mirror?
Stuck between shutting down or fighting back? What if there’s a third way that doesn’t drain your spirit or your purpose? Picture holding your ground—with compassion—and never letting the world’s chaos throw you off balance. Up for the challenge?
Ready for conversations that don’t spiral or stall? There’s a secret to staying grounded—even when stakes are high and emotions run hotter than ever. Forget surface-level “self-care.” Think deeper. Curious how healing at the centre sparks real, sustainable change?
🗞️ Newsletter
Subject: Healing, Equanimity, and Real Inclusion: Your Latest Bite of Inspiration 🍏
Dear Inclusion Bites Community,
Welcome back to another insightful edition of the Inclusion Bites newsletter—where we spark meaningful conversations and champion bold change together.
This week, we’re delighted to share highlights from our powerful episode, “Healing at the Heart,” featuring personal development coach Jared Karol in conversation with our host, Joanne Lockwood. Together, they explore what it truly means to nurture healing and resilience at the very core of social change.
Episode Spotlights:
🧘 Equanimity: The Superpower for Difficult Conversations
Joanne Lockwood unfolds Jared Karol’s unique approach to “equanimity”—composure under pressure. It’s not just about staying calm, but about meeting life’s adversities (and privileges) with a level head and open heart. Equanimity, as Jared shares, is a skill honed over decades, vital for keeping dialogue constructive and sustainable—even when emotions run high.
💚 The Inner Work Matters
Both speakers bravely dive into their personal journeys, discussing the importance of doing inner healing work alongside activism. Jared Karol’s story—growing up with a gay father during the height of the AIDS crisis—highlights how personal reflection is essential for genuine empathy and resilience. The message: World-changing action starts with self-awareness and emotional regulation.
🤝 Connection Over Division
This episode shines a light on the balance between passionate advocacy and effective change. Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol examine why protest and political action are both necessary, but must be anchored in authentic connection, not dogma or divisiveness. Their call to action? Let go of the need to “be right” and lean into curiosity, compassion, and mutual respect—even amidst disagreement.
🔊 Why This Conversation Matters
In a world that feels increasingly polarised, Inclusion Bites is your sanctuary for refocusing on humanity. By prioritising inner healing and equanimity, we remind ourselves that dismantling injustice is as much about how we show up as what we fight for.
Stay Connected & Join the Conversation
Have thoughts or stories to share? We want to hear from you! Email Joanne at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk
Missed the latest episode? Listen now: Inclusion Bites Podcast
Ready for deeper change? Share this newsletter with a friend, team, or community leader who strives for real inclusion.
Here’s to progressing from thought to action—one bold conversation at a time.
With purpose and curiosity,
The Inclusion Bites Team
P.S. Keep an eye out for more enriching narratives next week. Until then—be bold, be kind, and keep those minds (and hearts) open.
#InclusionBites #HealingAtTheHeart #Equanimity #InclusiveCulture #ChangeMakers
Guest's content for their marketing
Reflections on Guesting: My Journey on the Inclusion Bites Podcast
I was recently invited to appear as a guest on the Inclusion Bites Podcast, hosted by Joanne Lockwood, and it proved to be both a privilege and a thought-provoking experience. Titled “Healing at the Heart”, our conversation delved deeply into the nuanced intersections of personal development, social change, and the all-important journey of healing—both within ourselves and within our collective spaces.
Bringing Equanimity to the Forefront
My work centres on coaching individuals and organisations at the intersection of social change and healing. During the episode, I shared my perspective on equanimity—a concept I have honed over decades as both an educator and advocate. We discussed how equanimity provides the composure needed to navigate the hardships, complexities, and emotional charge that come with tackling injustice and fostering inclusion.
Joanne prompted thoughtful dialogue about the very human responses of “shutting down or fighting back” when faced with oppression or marginalisation. I reflected on my journey as a cisgender, straight white man with significant privilege, and how my motivations transformed from dogmatic social justice warrior to someone who seeks more sustainable, community-building methods of change. We examined how real transformation requires both fiery passion and level-headed pragmatism—what I described as the “why, what, and how” of effective activism.
Holding Space for Healing and Connection
One of the most valuable themes we explored was the importance of both “letting go” and “connection” on the road to healing. I shared personal stories about my father, whose experience as a gay man during the height of the AIDS crisis shaped not only my character but my entire approach to inclusion and healing-centred work. Joanne and I both exchanged moments where we confronted loss, privilege, and the opening of doors to empathise with those who have lived their whole lives against the metaphorical wind.
We discussed the difference between “doing the work” to understand others’ struggles and turning inward for personal healing—be it through mindfulness, meditation, or emotional intelligence. True progress, we agreed, cannot be fuelled solely by outrage or identity politics; it must be underpinned by empathy, humility, and a willingness to learn from every lived experience.
A Call for Sustainable Change
Our conversation did not shy away from complexity. Whether we were talking about the anatomy of peace, divisiveness on social media, or intentionally fostering spaces for dialogue rather than debate, our insights circled back to one overriding message: healing starts within and radiates outward. Social progress is rooted in emotionally regulated, purpose-driven action rather than performative outrage.
I closed by sharing thoughts from my new programme, “The Three Arrows of Life”, which offers structured support for this journey of personal healing, connection, and purposeful action. It was immensely gratifying to find common ground with Joanne and to realise, through open and honest dialogue, how shared values can change hearts as much as policies.
Join the Conversation
Being a guest on the Inclusion Bites Podcast reminded me that change happens one conversation at a time—when we listen deeply, reflect honestly, and show up fully human. If you’re interested in exploring these ideas further, or want to connect around personal coaching, healing, or social impact, I invite you to reach out or listen to the episode. Let’s foster a more inclusive world—one bold, honest conversation at a time.
To listen to my episode and more, visit Inclusion Bites.
—
Jared Karol
Personal Development Coach
Co-founder, Three Arrows Coaching
LinkedIn
Pain Points and Challenges
Certainly! Drawing directly from the podcast transcript for “Healing at the Heart” on the Inclusion Bites Podcast, here’s a focused analysis of the pain points and challenges raised by Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol, with content tailored to address these issues:
Key Pain Points & Challenges Discussed
Binary Responses to Oppression and Marginalisation
The tendency for individuals facing bullying, discrimination or oppression to either “shut down” or “fight back”, with limited space for nuanced engagement.
Psychological pressure making it difficult to remain present and open during difficult conversations.
The Sustainability of Social Justice Activism
The emotional toll and burnout associated with persistent activism, especially when change is slow or opposition is strong.
The journey from “angry social justice warrior” to more sustainable, healing-centred approaches.
Personal Healing and Inner Work
The underappreciation of inner healing and emotional regulation within the social change sector.
The need for self-awareness and “equanimity” to manage difficult emotions and become more effective change agents.
Connection Versus Othering
The isolation of individuals doing inclusion or social justice work.
Practices of “othering”, ridicule, and ad hominem attacks within activist discourse that damage community-building and mutual understanding.
Comparative Suffering and Empathy Gaps
Comparing pain and suffering, which can erode compassion and solidarity.
Difficulty in building empathy across divides of privilege and marginalisation.
Polarisation, Thought-Terminating Clichés, and “Woke” Culture
The rise of polarised thinking, especially online, where dialogue and curiosity are replaced by thought-terminating clichés and mockery.
The limitations and risks of “call-out culture” stifling genuine exchange.
Capitalism Driving Outrage and Scarcity Mindset
Social media algorithms rewarding outrage, competition, and divisive engagement over true connection and action.
The commodification of activism and thought leadership.
Solutions and Proactive Content to Address These Challenges
1. Building Dialogue Beyond Binary Reactions
Encourage facilitation practices that centre on emotional regulation, giving participants the tools to respond with composure under pressure. This can include mindfulness techniques and explicit norms for constructive disagreement.
Promote frameworks for “calling in” rather than “calling out”, emphasising education, curiosity and honest reflection (e.g., the “lens to mirror” pivot discussed).
2. Sustainable Activism & Self-Care
Advocate for self-reflection routines and collective care in activist spaces, making space for individuals to acknowledge burnout and recalibrate their involvement.
Celebrate a diversity of social change roles (educators, caretakers, storytellers, lobbyists) following Deepa Iyer’s “social change ecosystem” model, and affirm that “frontline protest” is only one mode among many.
3. Prioritising Healing and Emotional Intelligence
Regularly introduce mindfulness, meditation or journalling into inclusion initiatives, supporting the development of equanimity and emotional sobriety.
Design workshops and coaching offers that directly address inner work, enabling participants to explore and heal their limiting beliefs and emotional triggers.
4. Cultivating Connection and Resisting Othering
Foster intentional community spaces that centre narrative sharing, active listening and mutual vulnerability.
Challenge practices of othering and ridicule within activist circles, holding peers accountable for dismantling exclusion both outside and inside the movement.
5. Redefining Empathy and Suffering
Replace “pain comparisons” with practices that honour the spectrum of lived experience, referencing Brene Brown’s work on comparative suffering.
Engage participants in “empathy mapping” that values intersectionality and multiple points of adversity or privilege.
6. Combatting Polarisation and Entrenched Dialogue
Develop guidelines for digital communication that discourage thought-terminating clichés and encourage open-ended questioning and nuanced perspectives.
Address “Woke mob” culture through education about the risks of policing thought and undermining curiosity.
7. Reframing Capitalist Metrics of Success
Resist outrage and click-bait strategies in social and organisational communications, prioritising genuine impact and action over likes and views.
Question the drive for competition within inclusion spaces, promoting a mindset of abundance and collaboration.
Summary:
By tackling psychological safety, sustainability, healing, connection, empathy, polarisation, and capitalist distortion head-on, inclusion and diversity practitioners can foster a more effective and caring movement. The stories and frameworks shared by Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol in this episode offer actionable starting points for driving positive, sustainable change in the sector and beyond.
For further listening, deep dives, or support, explore more at the Inclusion Bites Podcast and consider reaching out to the host at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk.
Questions Asked that were insightful
Certainly! Several questions posed during this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast received particularly insightful and thought-provoking responses from Jared Karol. These exchanges offer fertile ground for a series of FAQs aimed at listeners interested in social change, healing, inclusion, and effective dialogue. Here are some recommended questions paired with the depth and nuance found in the guest’s answers, all suitable for developing a series of audience FAQs:
Inclusion Bites Podcast: FAQ Series
1. What does ‘equanimity’ mean in the context of difficult conversations and social change work?
This was directly explored when Joanne Lockwood asked Jared Karol to elaborate on the term ‘equanimity’, which he uses as his ‘superpower’. Jared Karol described equanimity not just as calmness but as an ongoing practice of composure, poise, and the ability to stay present in the face of both adversity and success without becoming overly reactive. It involves a deep, self-aware confidence that enables individuals to engage meaningfully without shutting down or escalating conflict.
2. Why do people tend to shut down or fight back in the face of oppression or marginalisation, and how can we cultivate a more productive response?
Joanne Lockwood raised this, prompting a powerful reflection from Jared Karol on his own journey from “social justice warrior” to a more sustainable, empathetic approach. He shared that the instinct to shut down or become combative is often a reaction to psychological pressure and that developing skills such as equanimity can help individuals remain present, honest, and open during these moments.
3. Is there a ‘right way’ to enact social change, or do different roles and approaches serve unique purposes?
This question emerged in the discussion of activist archetypes, referencing models such as Deepa Iyer’s ‘social change ecosystem’. Both speakers agreed that roles range from frontline protesters to educators, caretakers, and policy advocates. All are necessary for a healthy movement, and individuals often evolve over time from impassioned activism towards more strategic, sustainable pathways.
4. What is the importance of healing and inner work in facilitating social change?
Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol delved deeply into the role of personal healing—be it through mindfulness, reflection, or therapeutic practice—in sustaining long-term change work. Jared Karol described the transition from purely external activism to integrating mirror work, advocating that real change is only possible when individuals tend to their own emotional regulation and healing, alongside systemic efforts.
5. How can we manage and respond to ad hominem attacks or aggressive online behaviour, particularly in activism and inclusion work?
The conversation highlighted strategies for managing personal attacks, where both Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol drew upon Buddhist principles and emotional intelligence. The “graffiti on a wall” analogy was particularly evocative: recognising that such attacks are usually not about the recipient but rather the sender’s own anger and projections.
6. Is contemporary society really becoming more polarised, or are we simply more aware of division due to media and technology?
This theme was raised towards the episode’s conclusion, questioning whether heightened polarisation is a symptom of current times or simply more visible due to social media algorithms and news cycles. The speakers reflected on how online platforms reward provocation and outrage, which exacerbates feelings of division and hampers constructive dialogue.
These core topics—generated from pointed and open questions during the interview—can be developed into a rich FAQ series. Each addresses not only the challenges of inclusion and social justice, but also the psychological, strategic, and relational dimensions underpinning effective change-making.
If you’d like to see these FAQs elaborated further, or wish to focus on particular areas (e.g., emotional regulation, activism strategies, or online behaviour), please specify, and they can be expanded to serve your audience’s needs.
Blog article based on the episode
Healing at the Heart: Why Equanimity is the Missing Link in Inclusion Work
What if the real barrier to transformative inclusion was not ignorance or bigotry, but the way we engage with ourselves and each other in the heat of difficult conversations? In Episode 187 of the Inclusion Bites Podcast, aptly titled “Healing at the Heart,” personal development coach Jared Karol joins host Joanne Lockwood to unravel why healing—at a personal and collective level—is an overlooked essential in the fight for genuine belonging.
The Problem: The Emotional Churn of Social Justice
Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) work is as emotionally taxing as it is necessary. Burnout, frustration, and a tendency towards shutdown or combative behaviour often eclipse the good intentions of passionate advocates. Joanne Lockwood crystallises this issue: for those at the margins—those who are bullied or oppressed—the dominant choices are often to “shut down, run away… or come out with teeth showing and growling.” Rarely do we find the space to engage meaningfully and productively when under emotional siege.
But the truth is even starker. As Jared Karol confesses from his own lived experience, the usual toolkit of outrage, dogma, and ‘wokeness’ can alienate not only would-be allies, but even ourselves from our broader purpose. Before equanimity, Jared Karol shares, “I was snarky, acerbic, dogmatic… the newly woke white guy telling everyone how unwoke they were,”—but the change he sought remained elusive.
Why does this pattern persist? The relentless urgency for justice—a lifeblood in DEI—simultaneously sets in motion cycles of “thought-terminating clichés” and the very us-versus-them antagonism we purport to challenge. The podcast cites examples, from online exchanges to the classroom, where the ferocity of belief drowns out dialogue, reflection, and change.
The Agitation: The Cost of Bypassing Healing
When we operate from perpetual agitation, we condense our roles to educators, warriors, and critics. But what happens when our “why” is consumed by the protest, and the “how” is lost to adversarial engagement? Jared Karol offers a sobering insight: the ‘masters tools’—invective, shaming, dehumanisation—will never dismantle the master’s house. We lose sight of what actually creates sustainable, systemic change.
He shares a story from LinkedIn: reaching out to a fellow DEI professional, Jared Karol is shut down not on the merits of his work, but whether he passes the litmus test on a highly-charged political issue. No dialogue, no exploration—just cancellation. Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol both reflect on how this approach forecloses the very empathy and connection needed to move the needle on inclusion.
And it isn’t just external relationships that suffer. Jared Karol recounts deep, personal healing—navigating the coming out of his father during the AIDS crisis, and how for many years, secrecy and shame were often louder than pride or advocacy. It isn’t until acceptance and dialogue—first with himself—emerged, that the “healing at the heart” truly began, enabling more authentic, impactful advocacy.
The Solution: The Power of Equanimity
Both Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol are clear: if we are to build inclusive worlds where all can thrive, we must locate ourselves as both mirrors and megaphones—doing not just the outer work of activism, but the inner work of healing. The bridge between suffering and sustainable activism? Equanimity.
What is equanimity, and why does it matter? As Jared Karol explains, it is maintaining composure and presence amid hardship—neither suppressing our pain nor being captive to it. This means:
Letting go without giving up: Not absolving ourselves from the fight for justice, but releasing defensiveness, self-righteousness, and the demand to always be ‘right’.
Practising proactive healing: Whether through meditation, mindfulness, therapy, or another reflective practice, we must cultivate a baseline of emotional regulation. This practice—done consistently—creates the internal spaciousness needed to respond, not react.
Prioritising connection: True connection—be it with colleagues, family, strangers or adversaries—depends on curiosity and presence, not on agreement or defeat.
Being impeccable with your word: As referenced from Don Miguel Ruiz’s “The Four Agreements,” say what you mean without personal attacks, mockery, or gossip. Be clear, but also be kind.
Joanne Lockwood phrases it incisively: “It's not about my life is tougher than yours… We all have our stuff to deal with and it's not about comparison… Your circumstances are all relative, aren’t they?” There’s power in holding both the urgency and pain of injustice with the grace to see the other—and ourselves—as still human.
Actionable Items for DEI Professionals and Advocates
Commit to Inner Work: Establish a regular mindfulness or reflection practice. Dedicate five minutes daily—use apps, guided meditations, or simply observe your breath. Self-knowledge underpins your external impact.
Redefine Success: It's not the number of views, likes, or takedowns—it's meaningful action and incremental shifts. Seek quality of engagement over quantity, particularly in online spaces.
Dialogue, Not Diatribe: When confronted with disagreement, ask yourself: am I here to understand, or just to be right? Prioritise curiosity over cancellation.
Embrace Connection: Make time for honest conversations beyond transactional roles. Seek out diverse stories, especially within your own community. Listen with the intent to learn, not respond.
Let Go of Comparative Pain: Avoid the trap of “trading pains.” Honour each story, including your own, but resist the hierarchy of suffering.
Set Boundaries with Compassion: Not every engagement requires your energy. When necessary, disengage kindly, but remain open to future connection.
The Heart of the Matter—A Call to Action
Inclusion work is, at its essence, both deeply personal and profoundly collective. As Jared Karol illustrates, healing is not a retreat from activism, but its foundation. If we are to build inclusive workplaces, schools, and societies, we must first create space for equanimity in our hearts and minds. Only then do we unlock our potential for courageous, sustainable transformation.
Will you step into the discomfort of healing—which begins with yourself—so that your outer work rings true and endures?
Explore these themes and more by listening to “Healing at the Heart” on the Inclusion Bites Podcast. Let Jared Karol’s journey inspire the next chapter in your own. And if you’re ready to connect and share your story, reach out to Joanne Lockwood at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk or join the Inclusion Bites community.
Together, let’s disrupt the norms and heal at the heart—one bold conversation at a time.
#InclusionBites #HealingAtTheHeart #Equanimity #PositivePeopleExperiences
The standout line from this episode
The standout line from this episode is:
"How can we be have firm beliefs and conviction in those beliefs, but remove the charge. So that's a skill that people can and do cultivate where you can say whether you're a speaker, you're a coach, you're a podcast host, you're whatever your role is, you're right, you're a thought Leader on LinkedIn. You can write with conviction and clarity and purpose without being an asshole." – Jared Karol
This encapsulates the core message of the conversation: the importance of holding our values with passion and clarity, but always with emotional intelligence and humility.
❓ Questions
Certainly! Here are 10 discussion questions based on this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast (“Healing at the Heart”), featuring Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol:
Equanimity and Difficult Conversations: Jared Karol describes equanimity as his superpower in challenging discussions. What does equanimity mean in practice, and how might developing this mindset transform the way organisations approach conflict and inclusion?
The Varied Approaches to Social Change: Both Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol discuss the spectrum from passionate activism to nuanced, political change-making. How can movements balance the need for protest with more strategic, long-term engagement? Are all roles equally valued in progressing social justice?
Understanding ‘Doing the Work’: The phrase “do the work” comes up repeatedly. How do each of the speakers define or challenge what it actually means to “do the work” of inclusion and justice, particularly regarding inner transformation versus outward activism?
Impact of Personal Narratives: Jared Karol shares how his experience with his father’s sexuality and death led him to social justice work. How can personal stories drive systemic change, and what are the risks and rewards in foregrounding personal vulnerability in professional settings?
Emotional Intelligence and Inclusion: Joanne Lockwood links equanimity to emotional intelligence and self-regulation. In what ways do you see emotional awareness either enabling or impeding progress on inclusion within your circles or workplaces?
Connection Versus Letting Go: Jared Karol argues that healing requires both connection and letting go. What might “letting go” mean in the context of social justice work, and how does it differ from indifference or disengagement?
Online Discourse and Ad Hominem Attacks: The episode explores incidents of online hostility when discussing sensitive issues. How can social justice advocates maintain resilience and effectiveness in the face of public ridicule or aggressive criticism online?
“Thought-Terminating Clichés”: The concept emerges when Jared Karol recounts a shut-down encounter regarding Palestine. How do ‘thought-terminating clichés’ impede dialogue, and how might one invite deeper, more thoughtful engagement instead?
Healing-Centred Approaches: Referencing figures like Nelson Mandela and Lama Rod Owens, the speakers highlight a shift from trauma-centred to healing-centred activism. What does this pivot look like in real practice, and how might it alter the culture of diversity and inclusion work?
Purpose Versus Passion: Jared Karol makes a distinction between passion driving activism and purpose sustaining it. How can individuals and organisations discern between the two, and why might this differentiation be critical for sustainable social change?
These questions are designed to provoke self-reflection, group dialogue, and insight into both personal and organisational development around inclusion and belonging.
FAQs from the Episode
FAQ: Healing at the Heart — Inclusion Bites Podcast Episode 187
1. What is the central theme of this episode?
The main focus is on healing and equanimity in the context of social change and inclusion. The discussion explores how to balance passion for justice with sustainable, compassionate approaches to difficult conversations and activism.
2. Who are the speakers in this episode?
The host is Joanne Lockwood of SEE Change Happen, and the guest is Jared Karol, a personal development coach operating at the intersection of social change and healing.
3. What does the term 'equanimity' mean in the context of DEI work?
Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol describe equanimity as the capacity to handle both adversity and success with composure, poise, and emotional stability. In DEI, it’s about navigating difficult conversations and situations without becoming overwhelmed, defensive, or shutting down.
4. Why is emotional regulation important in social justice and inclusion work?
Emotional regulation, or 'emotional sobriety', allows individuals to engage in change-making without causing harm to themselves or others, making their efforts more sustainable and effective. Jared Karol relates this skill to his own journey, highlighting its importance in sparse and heated environments.
5. How does the episode address the tension between passionate activism and sustainable change?
The conversation identifies the roles of both passionate protest and more nuanced, pragmatic approaches in driving societal change. Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol acknowledge the need for a spectrum of roles—from frontline protesters to policymakers—to effect meaningful transformation, noting that maturing as a change-maker often means moving toward dialogue, connection, and healing.
6. What personal stories are shared to illustrate the themes?
Jared Karol recounts his experience as the son of a gay man and how that shaped his early activism, leading to attempts at healing and self-awareness. He discusses his father’s influence, the significance of connection and letting go, and his journey toward inner work and mindfulness.
7. What is meant by ‘do the work’ in this episode, and how is it framed?
‘Doing the work’ is presented as both external (learning about injustice, supporting activism, advocating for policy change) and internal (self-reflection, healing, developing emotional intelligence). Jared Karol stresses that both aspects are equally vital for effective, lasting impact.
8. Why is connection highlighted as critical in inclusion work?
Connection prevents isolation and fosters empathy, understanding, and effective communication—even amidst disagreement or difference. Jared Karol explains that deep connection, not just with people we care about but across differences, lies at the heart of sustainable inclusion work.
9. How do the speakers approach online conflict and polarisation?
The episode discusses the rise of polarisation, especially on platforms like LinkedIn, and the temptation towards ad hominem attacks. Both Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol advocate for curiosity, empathy, and not taking things personally, while also recognising the influence of competitive and scarcity-driven online environments.
10. What practical tips are suggested for cultivating equanimity?
Develop a meditation or mindfulness practice to proactively build emotional resilience.
Prioritise connection over conflict, resisting the urge to ridicule or dismiss others.
Learn to let go of dogma and the ‘need to be right’ without ignoring injustice.
Invest in inner work to complement your external advocacy.
11. How can listeners get involved or contact the speakers?
Listeners are encouraged to reach out to Joanne Lockwood at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to join the conversation or share their perspectives. Jared Karol is available on LinkedIn and at threearrowsoflife.com.
12. What is the ‘master’s tools’ reference about?
Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol discuss the idea that using the same dehumanising methods as oppressors (‘the master’s tools’) does not achieve liberation, but perpetuates cycles of harm and polarisation.
13. Where can I listen to more episodes of Inclusion Bites?
You can access additional episodes and subscribe at https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen.
For deeper engagement, reach out to contribute, suggest a guest, or participate in future bold conversations!
Tell me more about the guest and their views
The guest in this episode is Jared Karol, a personal development coach, whose work sits at the intersection of social change and healing. He describes his core superpower as bringing “equanimity to difficult conversations,” enabling people to remain present, honest, and open, rather than shutting down or becoming combative. Jared Karol has accumulated over 25 years’ experience in this field, and his approach is shaped by personal history—particularly influenced by the loss of his father, a gay man who died from AIDS, and from Jared Karol’s own journey from ignorance to active engagement in social issues.
His central philosophy revolves around the concept of equanimity, which he interprets not simply as calm, but also as a grounded presence that helps one hold both suffering and joy without overreacting to either. He maintains that this mindset is crucial for those engaged in DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) and social change work. Rather than riding the highs of performative activism or plummeting into despair and burnout when progress feels slow, Jared Karol encourages a balanced, sustainable approach.
Early in his career, Jared Karol admits he was “snarky, acerbic, dogmatic”—embodying the archetype of a newly ‘woke’ ally who sought to educate through confrontation and righteousness. Over time, he recognised that this approach was neither inclusive nor effective. He has since become a proponent of what he refers to as the “why, what, and how” of social change: knowing your personal motivation (why), understanding your role (what), and critically, being intentional and self-aware in your method (how).
Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol also discuss the diverse roles that fuel social change - from protestors to educators, caretakers, and storytellers—citing Deepa Iyer’s social change ecosystem. Jared Karol emphasises that lasting transformation requires inner work, including healing, mindfulness, and letting go of attachment to dogma and anger. He draws inspiration from Buddhist meditation and philosophy, as well as contemporary thought-leaders like Lama Rod Owens and Dr Sean Ginwright, who advocate healing-centred as opposed to trauma-informed approaches.
A key theme in Jared Karol’s views is the tension between passion and purpose. He sees passion, when unchecked, as a potential obstacle to genuine connection and lasting impact—it can be divisive or performative, whereas a deep commitment to one’s purpose, grounded in emotional intelligence and self-regulation, is where real change happens.
Recent anecdotes from Jared Karol’s coaching and interactions on social platforms illustrate his belief that reacting to hostility or mockery with anger simply perpetuates conflict. He favours curiosity, connection, and choosing to “let go”—not of fighting for justice, but of behaviours (such as ridicule, dogmatism, or ad hominem attacks) that hinder progress and healing.
Ultimately, Jared Karol champions a humanity-first model: healing oneself enables one to contribute more effectively to healing communities and societies. He highlights the importance of emotional maturity, self-reflection, and a willingness to understand those we disagree with, as the only way to foster meaningful, sustainable inclusion and change.
Ideas for Future Training and Workshops based on this Episode
Certainly. Drawing upon the rich and nuanced conversation between Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol in this episode of Inclusion Bites, future training and workshop ideas can centre around the intersection of social change, healing, and the cultivation of equanimity within the context of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). The dialogue explored personal stories, theories of change, emotional intelligence, and the practicalities of sustaining activism, providing a wealth of concepts to build educational experiences.
1. Cultivating Equanimity in Difficult Conversations
Workshop Focus:
Teach skills for remaining present, honest, and open in challenging DEI dialogues, including techniques for self-regulation, non-reactivity, and avoiding binary reactions (i.e., shutting down or fighting back).
Core Components:
Defining equanimity and its relevance to inclusion work
Role-playing charged scenarios and practising composure
Strategies for transitioning between emotional trigger and pragmatic response
Mindfulness and meditation tasters for emotional regulation
Case studies based on real workplace interactions
2. Healing-Centred Approaches to Social Change
Training Session:
Build understanding of the shift from trauma-informed to healing-centred engagement (referencing Dr. Shawn Ginwright’s "lens to mirror" concept mentioned by Jared Karol).
Elements to Include:
Personal narrative work: examining our own stories for insight and healing
The difference between "doing the work" externally and inner healing
Group reflection on sources of burnout, cynicism, and self-doubt in activist circles
Exercises in “letting go” and developing lighter, resilient mindsets
Creating support networks to foster community and connection within DEI spaces
3. The Social Change Ecosystem: Finding Your Role
Interactive Workshop:
Use Deepa Iyer’s Social Change Ecosystem framework to help participants identify and embrace their unique roles within the broader movement for inclusion.
Key Activities:
Mapping the "why," "what," and "how" of one’s personal journey
Role exploration: educator, healer, protester, caretaker, organiser, storyteller, etc.
Facilitated discussion on balancing passion with purpose
Strategies for collaborating across “roles” to enact sustainable change
4. Emotional Intelligence and Inner Work for DEI Practitioners
Professional Development Programme:
Focus on the cultivation of self-awareness, emotional regulation, and emotional sobriety as foundational skills for those leading inclusion efforts.
Programme Elements:
Introduction to emotional intelligence (EQ) and its Buddhist roots
Self-assessment tools for emotional triggers and reactive patterns
Guided mindfulness practices relevant to DEI
Scenario analysis: responding to online hostility, ad hominem attacks, and contentious situations with grace
Journaling and reflective exercises for ongoing growth
5. Facilitating Empathy, Connection, and Community
Seminar Series:
Address the importance of authentic relationship-building, empathy beyond comparative suffering, and resisting the urge to "other" or dehumanise, as highlighted in the dialogue.
Seminar Topics:
Building empathy when reference points differ
Practising curiosity over judgment in dialogue
The anatomy of peace: heart-at-war vs. heart-at-peace mindsets
Exercises in nonviolent communication and conflict transformation
Creating inclusive environments where stories are shared and heard
6. Responding to Polarisation and Outrage in Social Media Spaces
Training for Digital Civility:
Equip DEI advocates with tools for engaging online—especially on platforms like LinkedIn—without fuelling outrage or clickbait dynamics.
Curriculum Ideas:
Recognising and avoiding thought-terminating clichés
Managing and responding to ad hominem attacks
Responsible online activism: balancing reach and meaningful impact
Campaigning for change: from outrage to action
Best practices for digital wellbeing
Each session could incorporate storytelling, experiential exercises, small group discussions, and practical takeaways tailored to the audience context—HR, leadership, or grassroots activists. By intentionally weaving healing, equanimity, and connection into the training, participants are better equipped not merely to hold their convictions, but to realise real, sustainable, and human-centred change.
For details or to bring one of these workshops to your organisation, reach out to Joanne Lockwood at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk. More inspiration is always available at Inclusion Bites Podcast.
🪡 Threads by Instagram
Healing and social change start within. Jared Karol explores how equanimity—calm in the face of challenge—helps us show up consciously and sustainably, not just reacting or shutting down, but engaging with courage and honesty.
True inclusion means letting go of charged emotions and building real connection. Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol remind us that finding empathy in difficult conversations is key to societal transformation.
We all have a role in social change: activists, educators, caretakers, and storytellers. It’s not about shouting the loudest—it’s about understanding our purpose. Change happens when we blend passion with wise action.
Emotional intelligence is more than a buzzword—it’s self-awareness, empathy, and regulation. Practise mindfulness, be impeccable with your word, and try to bridge divides, not harden them.
Fighting for justice isn’t a call for more division. It’s about clarity, recognising what doesn't work, and choosing sustainable methods. Let’s build a world where everyone thrives—without losing ourselves to outrage.
Leadership Insights - YouTube Short Video Script on Common Problems for Leaders to Address
Leadership Insights Channel
Are you a leader struggling to keep calm during tense conversations? It’s a common problem. When faced with criticism, conflict, or resistance, many either shut down or fight back—neither leads to progress.
Here’s a better approach: cultivate equanimity. That means handling both setbacks and success with composure, staying present and open, rather than lashing out or withdrawing. Start by recognising when you’re being triggered. Pause. Take a breath. Ask yourself, “How can I respond rather than react?”
Focus on connecting with others and letting go of the need to be right. Instead, centre on understanding your team’s perspectives and emotions. This not only builds trust but also encourages honest, solution-focused dialogue.
Challenge yourself to practise self-awareness and stay mindful in the heat of the moment. When you lead with balance and genuine connection, you create a culture where everyone can thrive—even in difficult times. That’s the mark of a truly effective leader.
SEO Optimised Titles
Healing at the Heart 3 Proven Strategies to Foster Equanimity and Inclusion in 2024 | Jared @ Three Arrows Coaching
Emotional Intelligence and Social Change How Inner Work Boosts Sustainable Impact by 80 Percent | Jared @ Three Arrows Coaching
From Social Justice Warrior to Healing Leader Stats Behind Effective Diversity Conversations | Jared @ Three Arrows Coaching
Email Newsletter about this Podcast Episode
Subject: Discover Healing at the Heart – 5 Powerful Lessons from Inclusion Bites Episode 187!
Hello Inclusion Bites Family,
Are you ready for an episode that goes beyond the usual chatter and truly drills into the heart of what it means to foster inclusion, healing, and authentic connection? Episode 187, "Healing at the Heart," features the brilliant Jared Karol, a personal development coach whose journey at the intersection of social change and healing will undoubtedly resonate with you.
Whether you're commuting, relaxing, or just in need of something thought-provoking, this isn’t one to miss! Here’s what you’ll take away from our bold conversation with Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol:
5 Keys Listeners Will Learn:
Equanimity as a Superpower – Discover what it means to bring calm, poise, and composure to difficult conversations, and why not freaking out or getting too elated is so powerful.
The Role of Inner Work in Social Change – Why personal healing and self-awareness (yes, even a bit of meditation!) are critical for sustainable activism.
Navigating Passion vs Purpose – Learn how unchecked passion can sometimes overshadow your true purpose, and how letting go can bring clarity.
Connection versus Othering – Unpack why real change happens through genuine connections—not through shutting down, fighting back, or dehumanising others.
The Three Perspectives for Impactful Activism – Explore the ‘why’, ‘what’, and ‘how’ of social change work, including Deepa Iyer’s Social Change Ecosystem Model to see where you fit in the movement.
A Unique Fact Shared:
Did you know Jared Karol’s transformative journey began with his father, a gay man who passed away from AIDS in 2000? The powerful story of finding healing in Buddhist meditation circles shines a new light on the importance of inner work in a world often driven by external activism.
Ready to Spark Change?
Tune in and engage with real, gritty, and reflective insights that you can bring back to your own journey, professional practice, or community. Plus, don’t be shy—reply to this email or message Joanne Lockwood at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk if you want to join the conversation, share your thoughts, or even sit in the hot seat for a future episode!
Let’s Wrap It Up the Right Way:
Healing at the Heart reminds us: meaningful progress begins within, and ripples out when we connect—rather than clash—with those around us. Subscribe now, share this episode with someone who’d benefit, and keep driving change through thoughtful action, one bite at a time.
Stay bold, stay kind, and catch you on the next Inclusion Bite!
Warmly,
The Inclusion Bites Podcast Team
Listen and subscribe: Inclusion Bites Podcast
#InclusionBites #PositivePeopleExperiences #DriveChangeTogether
Potted Summary
Episode Summary
In “Healing at the Heart,” Joanne Lockwood welcomes Jared Karol for a deeply reflective exchange. Together, they navigate the complexities of social change, healing, and personal growth, exploring equanimity as a superpower in difficult conversations. From coaching at the intersection of social justice to the nuances of letting go and fostering sustainable activism, this episode invites listeners into a journey of emotional intelligence and connection.
In this conversation we discuss
👉 Equanimity in action
👉 The arc of activism
👉 Healing through connection
Here are a few of our favourite quotable moments
“Two things cultivate healing, two areas of mindset, connection and letting go.” — Jared Karol
“We meditate so we can cultivate the behaviours and the mindsets that we want to have when the hard stuff happens.” — Jared Karol
“It’s so easy to dismiss people who don’t get it, who don’t want to get it, who are hurtful, harmful, but the ways we’ve been going about it aren’t working.” — Jared Karol
Listen and Reflect
Immerse yourself in this thought-provoking episode as Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol present poignant insights on emotional regulation, the journey from activism to healing, and centring connection for real change. Challenge your perspectives—tune in to Inclusion Bites and ignite your spark for sustainable inclusion. Listen now at https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen.
LinkedIn Poll
LinkedIn Poll Context:
In Episode 187 of the Inclusion Bites Podcast, "Healing at the Heart," Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol explored how we handle difficult conversations around inclusion and social justice. They discussed the importance of equanimity, emotional intelligence, and balancing activism with inner healing to drive effective, sustainable change. As we strive to create more inclusive communities, learning how to remain open, present, and connected—even in the face of challenge—is vital.
Poll Question:
What helps you stay open and effective in tough inclusion conversations? #InclusionBites #HealingAtTheHeart #Belonging #Equanimity
Poll Options:
1️⃣ Practising mindfulness 🧘
2️⃣ Seeking honest dialogue 🗣️
3️⃣ Letting go of being "right" 🤝
4️⃣ Building diverse connections 🌍
Why vote?
Your insights can shape how leaders and changemakers approach inclusive dialogue. Help us spotlight the most impactful strategies for transforming debate into collaboration and positive action.
Highlight the Importance of this topic on LinkedIn
Just listened to "Healing at the Heart" on the Inclusion Bites Podcast – absolutely essential for anyone in HR or EDI leadership! 🎧✨
Why does this conversation matter?
Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol dive deep into the power of equanimity in challenging conversations – a game-changer for our profession.
Jared’s story about personal healing and self-awareness reminds us: sustainable social change starts within.
The episode tackles how passion, trauma, and our purpose intersect – and how true connection, not division, drives lasting impact.
This is not just theory. It’s a call for emotional intelligence, self-reflection, and dialogue that goes beyond surface-level activism.
In times when polarisation and ‘thought-terminating clichés’ shut down progress, the skills discussed here can help us create safer, more inclusive cultures at every level. 💪🏽🌍
A must-listen for anyone serious about driving real change in people, culture, and society!
#InclusionBites #HR #EDI #SelfAwareness #Healing #SocialChange #EmotionalIntelligence #Belonging #Leadership
L&D Insights
Absolutely! Here’s an L&D expert’s summary, geared for Senior Leaders, HR, and EDI professionals, extracting key insights, strategic “aha moments,” and actionable shifts informed directly by the conversation between Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol in the Inclusion Bites episode “Healing at the Heart.”
Key Insights for Senior Leaders, HR, and EDI Professionals
1. Equanimity is Essential—Not Optional 🧘♂️
The episode places “equanimity” front and centre as a pivotal competency in both individual and organisational responses to challenge and change. Jared Karol reframes our understanding: true inclusion work isn’t just about content knowledge but emotional composure—the ability to stay present, honest, and open in difficult conversations. This steadiness allows conversations to progress beyond binary confrontation.
2. Healing and Advocacy Must Go Together ❤️🩹
Professionals are cautioned against binary approaches—either militant activism or bureaucratic, depersonalised ‘logic’. “Healing” is not withdrawal from the cause; it’s the necessary inner work (emotional regulation, self-reflection, connection) that ensures resilience and sustainability in activism. Jared Karol openly shares how his journey pivoted from early fiery advocacy to a more reflective, sustainable model—one grounded in both connection and letting go.
3. ‘Do the Work’ Means Inner AND Outer Work 🌱
The expectation that professionals “do the work” in EDI is often misused to mean simply ‘get woke’ or build intellectual understanding. The conversation makes plain: it’s equally about doing the healing/inner work on yourself so you can show up sustainably, empathetically, and without perpetuating cycles of anger, burnout, or divisiveness.
4. The ‘How’ Matters as Much as the ‘What’ 🛠️
The “aha!” for many will be that method—how you engage, not just what you do—drives outcomes. Combative or righteous approaches frequently create resistance rather than dialogue. Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol reinforce that emotional intelligence, curiosity, and genuine dialogue underpin effective inclusion practice. Calling-in, not just calling-out, is presented as the truly transformative path.
5. Comparative Suffering and Dehumanisation are Traps ⚖️
A profound insight is how quickly we slide into “trading pain” or seeking to be “more marginalised” to justify our approach or shut down dissent. The episode warns that this fuels the same cycles of dehumanisation that underpin systemic injustice. Leaders are reminded to acknowledge context without diminishing the suffering or lived experience of others.
“Aha Moments”
Equanimity Enables Change: The real magic is in being able to hold space, stay steady, and engage—these are the underused superpowers of true change leaders.
Self-Regulation Drives Inclusion: Emotional intelligence is not peripheral—it is the work. Healing-centred engagement isn’t weak, it’s essential for courageous action.
Activism and Healing Co-exist: Marchers and politicians both play a role. A thriving EDI ecosystem needs activists, reflectors, storytellers—all forms of advocacy—and the humility to shift roles as careers and contexts evolve.
Practical Behaviour Changes for Professionals
Cultivate a Practice of “Equanimity”: Introduce regular mindfulness or reflective pause to your leadership style—embed emotional regulation and self-awareness as leadership staples, not add-ons.
Champion Healing Work: Normalise the language of healing (not just resilience or toughness) in your team and your strategy. Question: “Are we connecting? Are we letting go of what we need to?”
Prioritise Connection Over Being Right: Shift from performative ‘calling out’ to meaningful ‘calling in’. Use curiosity, not confrontation, as your primary tool. Ask, “What do I not yet understand about this colleague’s perspective?”
Acknowledge All Experiences—Don’t Compare Suffering: Recognise and validate the unique stories in your workforce without creating hierarchies of pain or struggle.
Balance Passion and Purpose: Encourage your teams to reflect: is our passion obscuring our deeper purpose? Are we acting from defensiveness or from a desire to build something lasting?
Social Sharing Hashtags
#EquanimityInLeadership
#HealingAtWork
#InclusionBites
#InnerWorkOuterImpact
#EmotionalIntelligence
Summary
If you’re leading people, shaping HR policy or spearheading EDI, this episode is your nudge to move from performative inclusion to embodied, sustainable culture change—by doing your inner work alongside your outer advocacy.
Tune in to the full episode for more context at: Inclusion Bites
Contact Joanne Lockwood: jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk
✨ True inclusion starts within. Is your practice as steady on the inside as it is bold on the outside?
Glossary of Terms and Phrases
## Less Common Concepts and Terms Discussed in "Healing at the Heart" — Definitions
1. **Equanimity**
- *Definition (as implied in the episode):*
A state of mental calmness, composure, and even-mindedness, particularly in difficult situations. Not being excessively elated by success nor overly dejected by setbacks. Jared Karol describes it as handling the hardships and joys of life with poise and inner stability, helping individuals remain present and open in challenging conversations rather than shutting down or reacting defensively.
2. **Thought-Terminating Cliché**
- *Definition (as discussed):*
Phrases or responses that are used to end or avoid deeper thinking or dialogue, often deployed to dismiss nuance or shut down further conversation. In the context of the episode, such clichés prevent meaningful engagement and understanding of complex topics.
3. **Social Justice Warrior**
- *Definition (contextual):*
Originally used pejoratively, in this episode it refers to individuals who are aggressively vocal about social justice issues, sometimes described as newly 'woke,' and who can be dogmatic or confrontational in their approach to activism.
4. **Lens to Mirror Pivot**
- *Definition (as referenced from Dr. Shawn Ginwright):*
A conceptual shift in social change work:
- *Lens* = Focusing outwardly on the injustices and problems of the world.
- *Mirror* = Turning inward to reflect on how one's own attitudes, behaviours, and healing needs impact their activism and effectiveness in social change.
5. **Master’s Tools Will Never Dismantle the Master’s House**
- *Definition (contextual):*
A reference (attributed to Audre Lorde) meaning that oppressive systems cannot be dismantled using the same attitudes, methods, or power dynamics that sustain them. It questions whether replicating aggression or intolerance, even "for a just cause," can actually produce liberation or justice.
6. **Ad Hominem Attack**
- *Definition (as used):*
A rhetorical strategy where someone attacks an opponent’s character or identity rather than addressing the substance of their argument or perspective. These are presented as personal attacks rather than topic-specific debate.
7. **Calling In vs. Calling Out**
- *Definition (implied):*
- *Calling Out*: Publicly criticising or shaming someone for problematic behaviour or opinions.
- *Calling In*: Inviting others into dialogue and offering education or perspective in a more constructive, supportive manner, with the aim of fostering genuine growth or understanding.
8. **Unreal Other**
- *Definition (as used):*
The process of dehumanising an individual or group to the extent that they are seen as invalid, unworthy of empathy, or even beneath consideration. This concept relates to oppression, marginalisation, and exclusion by rendering people as "other" rather than fully human.
9. **Comparative Suffering**
- *Definition (referenced conceptually):*
The notion of weighing and comparing one person’s suffering or hardship against another’s, often as a way to invalidate or diminish someone’s experience. The episode highlights how this mindset is unhelpful and can hinder genuine connection and empathy.
10. **Healing-Centred Engagement**
- *Definition (from the episode via Dr. Shawn Ginwright):*
Moving from a 'trauma-informed' approach (focused on the problem and pain) to a 'healing-centred' one that prioritises growth, resilience, and self-awareness in change-making and activism.
11. **Emotional Sobriety**
- *Definition (as mentioned):*
The capacity to self-regulate one’s emotions and maintain balance, especially during emotionally charged situations, linked to the concept of equanimity and emotional intelligence.
12. **Outrage Bait**
- *Definition (contextual):*
Content—typically on social media—designed specifically to provoke strong emotional reactions, particularly anger or outrage, in order to drive engagement or visibility.
13. **Social Change Ecosystem**
- *Definition (referenced via Deepa Iyer):*
A framework illustrating that effective social change requires a combination of roles (e.g., rebels, organisers, storytellers, coaches, caregivers) and not everyone should or can play the same part in driving societal transformation.
14. **Letting Go (as a healing practice)**
- *Definition (contextual):*
Not ignoring or suppressing challenges, but releasing unhelpful rumination, heavy emotional burden, or dogma in order to bring a lighter, more sustainable energy to activism, dialogue, or daily life.
15. **Be Impeccable with Your Word**
- *Definition (as referenced from The Four Agreements):*
Speaking with integrity and care, being honest and kind, and only saying what you mean—presented as foundational for effective communication and self-leadership.
---
These concepts, while present in specialist circles within social change and personal development, are seldom used in mainstream conversation with such specificity or depth as demonstrated in this episode.SEO Optimised YouTube Content
Focus Keyword: Healing at the Heart
Title
Healing at the Heart: The Power of Equanimity for Culture Change | #InclusionBitesPodcast
Tags
Tags: Healing at the Heart, culture change, Positive People Experiences, inclusion, equanimity, diversity, belonging, personal development, inner work, emotional intelligence, sustainable change, DEI, social justice, letting go, connection, workplace inclusion, allyship, healing centred, inclusion podcast, mindset shift, empathy, transformation, societal change, Joanne Lockwood, Jared Karol
Killer Quote
Killer Quote: "How can we have firm beliefs and conviction in those beliefs but remove the charge?" – Jared Karol
Hashtags
Hashtags: #HealingAtTheHeart, #CultureChange, #PositivePeopleExperiences, #InclusionBites, #InclusionPodcast, #Belonging, #Equanimity, #DEI, #SustainableChange, #MindsetShift, #EmpathyAtWork, #JoanneLockwood, #JaredKarol, #InnerWork, #AuthenticInclusion, #LettingGo, #ConnectionMatters, #SelfAwareness, #HealingCentred, #SocietalChange
Why Listen
In this episode of Inclusion Bites, we’re diving ‘Healing at the Heart’, a conversation designed to spark the culture change we all crave. As your host, Joanne Lockwood, I take you directly to the intersection where inclusion meets true healing, joined by the insightful personal development coach, Jared Karol.
Our focus keyword for this episode, Healing at the Heart, isn’t simply about self-help mantras; it’s about the rigorous inner work underpinning Positive People Experiences and authentic culture change. Too often, organisational change and DEI attempts are derailed by reactivity, polarisation, and shallow “optics.” Here, Jared and I examine how equanimity—remaining present, honest, and open, even during uncomfortable conversations—can genuinely transform environments and ourselves.
Why should you listen? Simply put, if you’re an HR leader, change driver, or anyone determined to foster a thriving, inclusive culture, this conversation opens the door to what mainstream DEI initiatives frequently miss: the need for personal healing as a basis for real change. We discuss how genuine culture change cannot be sustained by “calling out” alone, nor by mere intellectual acknowledgement of injustice—transformation starts from within.
Jared shares his moving personal journey, including how his father’s coming out and passing from AIDS catalysed his own awakening. This led him to embrace mindfulness, meditation, and a healing-centred approach to social impact. You’ll hear concrete discussion of how shutting down or fighting back are default reactions to marginalisation—but there’s a powerful alternative in cultivating equanimity. This isn’t about spiritual bypass; it’s about building emotional intelligence and self-awareness (the true underpinnings of a psychologically safe workplace).
We probe why culture change depends on understanding the “why”, “what”, and “how” of this work—and how a single, rigid approach (the angry “woke” calling-out or even performative allyship) is not enough. Real sustainable impact arises when we can sit with discomfort, listen deeply, and avoid perpetuating cycles of trauma, defensiveness, and blame. After all, no one was ever shamed into genuine inclusion.
Throughout our dialogue, we uplift the essential role of diverse approaches – from passionate advocates and protesters to those who transform systems quietly, via policy, coaching, or storytelling. Whatever your natural strengths, there’s a place for you in this movement—provided we commit to our own healing and emotional regulation, and to truly connecting over simply proving our point.
We also take a real-world look at social media “debate” and its impact on culture. From the LinkedIn controversy Jared recounts, where dialogue is shut down by derision or purity tests, to the daily experience of ad hominem attacks, we reflect on how we can resist this adversarial posture. Instead, can we show up in the spirit of connection, curiosity, and letting go—while not letting go of justice itself?
Listeners, you’ll receive practical insights: the difference between purpose and passion, why mindfulness and meditation are essential tools for inclusivity, and how letting go of emotional “charge” helps you achieve conviction without “colluding with chaos.” If you want to see lasting inclusion—not just performative statements or reactive outrage—this is your episode.
This conversation is a must-listen for anyone invested in culture change, workplace wellbeing, and Positive People Experiences. We’ll equip you with frameworks, language, and living examples you can take back to your teams, boardrooms, or communities. Expect honest stories, challenging questions and plenty of actionable wisdom.
Closing Summary and Call to Action
Key Learning Points and Actionable Insights:
Healing Is Foundational to Culture Change:
Cultivating healing within is essential for effecting real, lasting change in the workplace and society. Without personal healing and emotional clarity, DEI efforts too easily fracture into blame and defensiveness.Equanimity Is Action, Not Passivity:
Practising equanimity—remaining composed and present amid challenge—is a proactive choice. It means consciously deciding not to be either combative or withdrawn, but instead standing our ground with both conviction and maturity. Reflect: In your own working life, how often do you react rather than respond?Multiple Roles Are Needed for Change:
As Jared and I highlight, there’s no single “right” posture: from frontline activists to subtle influencers in HR and leadership, change requires storytellers, educators, and bridge builders. Ask yourself: What role do you naturally occupy? Can you stretch into new ones as needed, without judgement of others’ approaches?Purpose Over Passion:
Passion without self-reflection can lead to burnout or adversarial exchanges, derailing Positive People Experiences. Rediscover your core purpose—your “why”—and align your actions accordingly. Are you driving connection, or just adding to the noise?Transformative Inclusion Begins with Inner Work:
Tools like mindfulness, meditation, or reflective journalling are not soft skills; they are integral to building the emotional intelligence and self-regulation necessary for inclusive leadership and courageous conversations. Start small: Can you bring one deliberate pause into your next charged discussion?Let Go of the Us-Versus-Them Binary:
Challenge yourself to connect with others’ humanity before their opinion. When the focus becomes “winning” or being “right,” culture change is lost. Try: In the face of disagreement, seek understanding rather than the last word.Turning Pain Into Purpose:
Both Jared and I speak candidly about our journeys through marginalisation and loss, and how these shape empathy. Use your pain—rather than letting it calcify into resentment—as a springboard for greater compassion and effectiveness.Healing Is for Everyone—not Just the Marginalised:
Healing-centred practices serve all of us: those with privilege and those who have been historically marginalised. It is not your circumstances but your response that determines your power to create change.Resist Thought-Terminating Clichés:
Avoid responding to complex issues with simplistic slogans or “purity tests.” Real conversations—especially in the age of social media—require patience and intellectual honesty. Practise: When tempted to dismiss, pursue curiosity instead.Embrace Connection and Letting Go Every Day:
Make it a daily practice to find small moments of genuine connection—with colleagues, strangers, and even those you disagree with. Equally, commit to letting go of emotional baggage that does not serve you or your purpose.Adopt Emotional Sobriety:
As explored in the episode, cultivate the ability to remain steady, balanced, and non-reactive—especially in volatile scenarios. This “emotional sobriety” is the bedrock of mature leadership and sustainable inclusion.Understand the Limitations of Outrage:
High-volume, reactionary outrage rarely leads to sustainable change or culture transformation. Far more impactful is a nuanced, thoughtful challenge—what we call “calling in” rather than “calling out.”Recognise the Power of Small Actions:
Whether five people take meaningful action or a million react, true change is measured by real-world impact, not online traffic or “outrage bait.” Consider: What’s your metric for success?Practise Non-attachment (Let Go of the Charge):
Advocate for justice and inclusion, but do so without personalising attacks or holding onto emotional overwhelm. What traditions or tools might help you “set the charge down”?Balance Empathy and Boundaries:
Connection is central, but so are boundaries—emotional and otherwise. It’s possible to remain open and compassionate without absorbing others’ negativity.Emotional Intelligence Is Teachability:
Leaders at every level can and should focus on developing emotional intelligence—self-awareness, self-regulation, empathy and social skills. This is the scaffolding of an inclusive culture.Foster a Reflective Practice:
Make time regularly for self-examination: Where did I react unconsciously? Where did I act from my values?Champion Psychological Safety:
By de-escalating drama and centring emotional safety, you enable teams and individuals to show up authentically and creatively—all foundational to Positive People Experiences.Take Responsibility for Your Triggers:
Use every “trigger” as an opportunity to explore and understand, not to escalate or retreat.Stay Curious, Stay Engaged:
As always on Inclusion Bites, the path forward requires curiosity, active listening, and a willingness to keep showing up, even when the stakes are high and the terrain is uncertain.
Call to Action:
Bring these insights back to your sphere of influence. Start with your next team meeting, online conversation, or family discussion. Practise curiosity, equanimity, and healing. Join the growing Inclusion Bites community—subscribe, share, and reflect with us as we ignite inclusion and drive sustainable, Positive People Experiences through real, human-centred culture change.
Outro
Thank you for tuning into this episode of Inclusion Bites. If you found this conversation on Healing at the Heart and culture change valuable, please like, subscribe, and share it—let’s amplify voices making a difference in the world of inclusion. To discover more episodes and insights, visit:
SEE Change Happen website: https://seechangehappen.co.uk
The Inclusion Bites Podcast: https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen
Stay curious, stay kind, and stay inclusive – Joanne Lockwood
Root Cause Analyst - Why!
Certainly. Below is a structured root cause analysis of the main problems surfaced in this episode of Inclusion Bites, “Healing at the Heart”, featuring Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol:
Key Problem 1:
Conversations around inclusion, social justice, and marginalisation often become polarised, unproductive, and emotionally charged, leading to disengagement or conflict rather than resolution and sustainable change.
1. Why does this problem exist?
Because individuals tend to respond to difficult or emotionally charged discussions with either withdrawal (“shutting down”) or defensiveness (“fighting back”), rather than maintaining composure and openness (“equanimity”).
2. Why do individuals tend to shut down or become defensive?
Because lived experiences of marginalisation or privilege, together with strong personal convictions, generate intense emotional responses that are difficult to regulate in challenging situations.
3. Why is it difficult to regulate these emotional responses?
Because many people lack the tools, training, or ongoing practise in emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and inner healing, which are necessary to bridge the gap between passionate beliefs and constructive, collaborative engagement.
4. Why do people lack these tools or experience with inner healing and emotional intelligence?
Because most education and training in DEI and social justice spaces focus on understanding external systems (“the lens”) and activism (“the what”), rather than prioritising inner work (“the mirror”) and sustainable approaches to personal wellbeing.
5. Why is the focus on external systems rather than internal self-awareness and healing?
Because of historic and systemic urgency to address injustices (“change needed yesterday”), which prioritises immediate action and advocacy over reflection and the cultivation of sustainable, healing-centred frameworks.
Key Problem 2:
Adversarial or dogmatic behaviours (e.g., online mockery or shutting down engagement) block opportunities for meaningful dialogue and mutual understanding.
1. Why does this happen?
Because charged issues and identity-based pain lead individuals to perceive those who disagree or lack visible support as “unreal others,” dehumanising and excluding them from dialogue.
2. Why do individuals dehumanise or exclude others in this way?
Because high emotional investment in a cause can produce rigid “us vs. them” mentalities, reinforced by social media echo chambers and lack of nuanced discourse.
3. Why is there high emotional investment and echo chamber reinforcement?
Because ongoing societal trauma, historical injustice, and current events sustain a collective sense of threat and urgency, amplified through online spaces that reward outrage over nuance.
4. Why are online spaces rewarding outrage and polarisation?
Because algorithms and digital capitalism privilege engagement—often in the form of controversy or “outrage bait”—over meaningful debate, incentivising provocative posts over educational content.
5. Why is digital engagement prioritised over genuine dialogue?
Because the business models of mainstream platforms profit from attention and division, rather than from measured, healing-centred conversations.
Root Cause Summary
Across both problems, the root causes converge around:
Societal and systemic prioritisation of activism over healing and self-reflection
Lack of widespread emotional regulation and equanimity skills
Digital and social structures that favour controversy and polarity over connection and understanding
Suggested Solutions
Embed Self-Reflection and Healing:
Encourage DEI professionals, social justice advocates, and leaders to balance the external focus (“lens”) with deep inner work (“mirror”)—as Jared Karol recommends. Offer training in emotional intelligence, mindfulness, and healing-centred approaches.Model and Reward Equanimity:
Highlight and multiply stories, case studies, and leadership examples (such as Joanne Lockwood, Jared Karol, Nelson Mandela, or Thich Nhat Hanh) who demonstrate equanimity, healing, and bridge-building. Incorporate these narratives into organisational cultures and public discourse.Foster Thoughtful Dialogue Spaces:
Develop and curate digital forums, workshops, and communities where curiosity, empathy, and inquiry are valued over binary arguments or performative outrage. Invest in moderating and designing these spaces to reward nuance and genuine exchange.Update DEI/Activism Frameworks:
Shift part of the training and development focus from pure advocacy and identity politics towards skills-building around resilience, letting go of ego attachment to being “right”, and practising non-violent communication.Advocate Platform Reform:
Where possible, influence or campaign for social media platforms to incentivise meaningful conversation (e.g., quality scoring systems, highlighting collaborative posts, de-amplifying divisive content).
Conclusion
Addressing polarisation and emotional dysregulation in social justice and inclusion work requires a structural shift toward integrating healing, self-awareness, and equanimity as core competencies—not just for “privileged” identities, but as essential for everyone seeking sustainable change. Only by healing at the heart can effective, inclusive, and lasting transformation become the norm rather than the exception.
Canva Slider Checklist
Opening Slide |
|---|
Discover five essential best practice checkpoints for fostering sustainable inclusion and healing-centred leadership in your organisation. Use these insights to ensure your culture of belonging is driven by self-awareness, connection, and authentic, emotionally intelligent engagement at every level. Create real, lasting change—starting from within. |
Slide 1: Embrace Equanimity in Challenging Conversations |
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Foster an environment where difficult topics can be addressed calmly and openly. Encourage composure, poise, and mindful self-awareness in all discussions—especially around issues of equity and inclusion—to prevent shutdowns and adversarial reactions. |
Slide 2: Prioritise Inner Work and Emotional Regulation |
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Invest in personal development practices such as mindfulness or reflective self-assessment. Cultivate emotional intelligence across leadership to build resilience and sustain effective change, even when confronted with resistance or emotionally charged situations. |
Slide 3: Value the Power of Connection and Storytelling |
|---|
Centre workplace wellbeing and inclusion on genuine connection, empathy, and curiosity. Prioritise sharing personal stories to humanise experiences of marginalisation while also acknowledging the diverse journeys of your people. Use this as the foundation for collective understanding. |
Slide 4: Encourage Nuanced, Sustainable Change |
|---|
Strike a balance between activism and strategic advocacy. Recognise the need for a range of roles—educators, organisers, policymakers, caretakers—and value political, community, and individual levers for sustainable progress. Change is most effective when all approaches are embraced. |
Slide 5: Let Go of Othering and Cultivate Healing |
|---|
Shift organisational culture away from judgement, blame, or rigid “us versus them” mindsets. Promote dialogue, active listening, and letting go of dogma. Support ongoing healing practices to build lasting bridges, reduce polarisation, and prevent burnout on your EDI journey. |
Closing Slide |
|---|
For bespoke guidance on embedding healing-centred inclusion in your organisation, connect with Joanne Lockwood and SEE Change Happen. Visit https://seechangehappen.co.uk to start your journey towards real cultural transformation. Ready to lead change with empathy and purpose? Let’s talk! |
6 major topics
Healing at the Heart: Six Pillars for Inclusive Cultures
Meta Description: Dive into key topics from my heartfelt conversation on Healing at the Heart, exploring equanimity, privilege, effective social change, connection, emotional intelligence, and navigating polarisation. Discover practical insights for building truly inclusive cultures.
Reflecting on one of my most meaningful conversations, I’m compelled to share the themes that underscored our discussion around what it truly means to nurture inclusive cultures. My guest, Jared Karol, brought fresh perspective and candour, showing how the right blend of personal healing and intentional action can foster belonging, understanding, and sustained transformation in society. We journeyed through the power of equanimity, the role of privilege, practical methods for sustainable social change, the necessity of authentic connection, the foundations of emotional intelligence, and the landscape of modern polarisation. Building inclusive cultures takes deeper awareness and a willingness to do the reflective work. Here are the six major topics we explored—each raising more questions, inviting continued curiosity, and offering building blocks for a more inclusive future.
Equanimity: The Heartbeat of Inclusive Cultures
From the outset, Jared introduced me to the concept of equanimity—a state of calm and composure amid chaos. I’ll admit, it wasn’t a word I bandied about often before, but the idea resonated with me. We discussed how equanimity isn’t just a vague philosophical notion: it is a practical skill, one that means holding space not only for our own pain and joy but also for the discomfort that often accompanies difficult conversations. It’s about not shutting down, nor fighting back with aggression, but finding a poised middle ground that invites honest dialogue.
Curiously, is it possible to teach equanimity as a core leadership skill? How might it change the dynamic of workplace interactions if everyone, regardless of background or identity, were trained in emotional composure under pressure? Imagine the effect on conflict resolution and on nurturing truly inclusive cultures where difference is not just tolerated but meaningfully engaged.
Privilege: Navigating Personal Identity for Collective Belonging
We didn’t shy away from the thorny subject of privilege. Jared openly shared that, as a cis straight white man, he sits atop what he called “the privilege food chain”. His personal journey—triggered by his father’s experiences as a gay man—led him to confront systemic injustice, awaken to his own position, and begin channelling his privilege into advocacy. Our mutual reflections recognised the danger of succumbing to a saviour complex or dogmatic self-righteousness, but also the necessity of owning one’s privilege as a tool for change.
What happens when we step outside our lane? I shared my own experience of losing privilege and gaining marginalisation. When the wind of injustice hits you full in the face, empathy stops being theoretical. Is true understanding possible without personal reference points? And what is the best way for someone with privilege to support, rather than overshadow, marginalised voices in the pursuit of inclusive cultures?
Sustainable Social Change: The Why, What, and How
Another powerful layer in our conversation revolved around strategies for enacting real social change—an essential ingredient for inclusive cultures. Jared introduced a helpful framework: knowing your personal “why”, defining your “what” (your practical role or intervention), and, crucially, crafting your “how”. We mused on Deepa Iyer’s social change ecosystem, the need for rebels and caretakers, educators and storytellers—all interconnected in a web of impact.
Can social change thrive if driven solely by anger or protest? Or does sustainability require a pivot to healing, as Jared described, such as Sean Ginright’s shift from “trauma-informed” to “healing-centred” approaches? Are change-makers undervaluing the quieter, relational work that happens outside the spotlight? The curiosity here lies in how each individual’s approach feeds the collective momentum, and what combinations truly accelerate belonging for all.
Connection: Letting Go and the Power of Human Relationships
Connection emerged as an antidote to isolation—so vital for building inclusive cultures but easily eroded by stress, judgement and disengagement. Jared relayed poignant stories from his childhood—his mother’s and father’s differing struggles, the impact of honesty, and the trade-offs between pain and empathy. We agreed that comparative suffering often misses the point; everyone’s story is valid, and deep connection comes from seeing beyond the surface.
Why do we so often choose to “other” those who don’t match our expectations, rather than pursue nuance and understanding? I was reminded that when our hearts go to war—we become part of the problem, not the solution. Might a gentle inquiry into someone’s ‘why’ transform defensiveness into trust? What are the pathways to connection across the boundaries of pain and history?
Emotional Intelligence and Healing: The Architecture of Inclusive Cultures
Throughout our conversation, emotional intelligence loomed large—self-awareness, regulation, and resilience form the foundation for any inclusive culture. Jared advocated for cultivating healing, not as a luxury but as a necessity. Meditation and mindfulness, he argued, are tools not just for personal peace but for greater clarity and impact in the world. I’ve found that regulating my emotional triggers allows me to shift out of binary thinking and embrace reasoned engagement.
But can emotional intelligence bridge the gaps left by systemic injustice? Is there a boundary where emotional regulation slips into emotional self-silencing? How do we remain committed to justice without losing our emotional sobriety? These questions remind me that embracing imperfection, ongoing self-work, and open feedback are imperative to creating inclusive cultures in practice.
Polarisation and Social Media: Navigating Division in Pursuit of Belonging
As our conversation drew towards reflection on the outside world, Jared and I examined whether society, fuelled by capitalism and social media, is becoming more polarised—or if we’re just more aware of it through our current lens. We pondered where outrage, clickbait, and algorithm-driven division lead us, and whether a million views matter as much as one person taking positive action.
If inclusive cultures are our goal, does the constant churn of digital opinion serve or hinder transformation? Should we be investing in small, impactful connections rather than chasing viral reactions? The drama of online attacks, ad hominem ridicule, and performative allyship makes me curious: where do we find balance between amplifying voices and hearing each other deeply?
Conclusion: Building Inclusive Cultures is a Collective Journey
At heart, my conversation with Jared was an invitation—a call to re-examine the meaning of inclusive cultures in our homes, organisations, and society at large. It calls for equanimity in difficult conversations, awareness and use of privilege, practical and sustainable social change, authentic connection, emotional intelligence, and conscious navigation of societal polarisation. My hope is that by opening these doors, we nurture belonging, foster healing, and inspire transformative change.
Curious about your own journey towards building inclusive cultures? Reach out to me at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk, or explore further inspiring conversations at https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen. Let’s explore together what it really means to belong—and what more we can do, one step at a time.
Slogans and Image Prompts
Certainly! Here are some memorable slogans, soundbites, and quotes pulled directly from the episode transcript—each designed to fit perfectly on a mug, t-shirt, sticker, or as a hashtag. For each one, I’ve included a detailed AI image generation prompt to enhance their appeal for merchandise.
1. Slogan:
“Ignite the Spark of Inclusion”
Image Prompt:
A glowing ember or stylised spark radiating from the centre, surrounded by subtly interlinked hands of various skin tones forming a circle. The background features modern, bold text and a soft, inclusive gradient reminiscent of dawn—invoking hope and new beginnings.
2. Slogan:
“Healing at the Heart”
Image Prompt:
A luminous heart at the centre emitting gentle, soothing light. Around the heart, abstract waves or patterns ripple outward, symbolising healing. Gentle, neutral colours with hints of gold or teal, and elegant serif font, give a calm and restorative vibe.
3. Quote:
“Equanimity: Confidence to Handle It All”
Image Prompt:
Strong, grounded figure (gender-neutral silhouette) standing at the edge of a cliff, facing a vast, dynamic landscape—half stormy, half sunlit. The sky behind spells the quote in calligraphic, inspiring script. The composition implies overcoming challenge with calm and composure.
4. Soundbite:
“Show Up Consciously, Courageously, Sustainably”
Image Prompt:
Three vibrant brushstroke arcs, each labelled “Consciously”, “Courageously”, “Sustainably”, converging to a bright focal point at the bottom. Overlay this with an empowering pose (arms open, facing forward), rendered in bold, empowering colours—teal, magenta, and gold.
5. Quote:
“Do the Inner Work; Heal to Change the World”
Image Prompt:
A tree growing from an open book, its roots forming a heart shape, symbolising inner work. The branches hold diverse faces or small icons representing community. Soft earth tones, lush greens, and a handwritten script celebrate wisdom and growth.
6. Hashtag:
#LetGoConnectHeal
Image Prompt:
Flowing ribbons or threads unravelling then interweaving into a strong knot, embodying “letting go” and “connection”. Gentle pastels emphasise unity. The hashtag sits elegantly beneath in a rounded, modern sans serif font.
7. Quote:
“Purpose Over Passion—Lead with Meaning”
Image Prompt:
Scales balancing on one side a lively heart (“Passion”) and on the other a symbolic compass (“Purpose”)—the compass is shining slightly brighter. Subtle, elegant lines and clean, minimalist design with gold highlights for sophistication.
8. Soundbite:
“The World Needs Healing—One Conversation at a Time”
Image Prompt:
A pair of stylised, diverse faces engaged in dialogue, with colourful sound waves emerging and blossoming into a garden or flourishing branches, set against a soft off-white background. Uplifting and hopeful atmosphere.
9. Slogan:
“Turn Outrage Into Impact”
Image Prompt:
A tornado or swirl of chaotic scribbles at left, transforming seamlessly into a straight arrow cutting forward through bright, clear space. The phrase overlays the transition—dynamic, powerful, and modern.
10. Hashtag:
#InclusionBites
Image Prompt:
A vibrant, playful set of ‘bite’-shaped marks (like nibbled doughnuts or cookies) around the edges of the text, which is rendered in bold, attention-grabbing font. Diverse tiny cartoon faces peeking in from the letters.
Each of these options is grounded in the themes and language of the episode, offering both inspiration and visual impact for merchandise sure to resonate with your listeners and community.
Inclusion Bites Spotlight
Jared Karol, this month’s featured guest on Healing at the Heart, offers a transformative exploration into the intersection of personal healing and driving social change. As a personal development coach, Jared works within the challenging spaces of privilege, marginalisation, and systemic inequity. His commitment is to fostering conscious, courageous, and sustainable approaches to activism and inclusion—core to the ethos of The Inclusion Bites Podcast.
Jared’s superpower is equanimity: maintaining composure and openness amidst difficult conversations, particularly where tensions of oppression and discrimination run high. He draws on personal history—including the journey alongside his gay father during the AIDS epidemic—and decades of experience in DEI and social justice education. Jared understands all too well the human tendency to either shut down or fight back when confronted with exclusion, and his story is one of learning how to stay present and engaged with empathy.
Throughout this episode, Jared and host Joanne Lockwood explore what it means to move from social justice fervour to sustainable and healing-centred change. They discuss roles within movements—activist, educator, caretaker—and the transformation needed to balance purpose and passion, allowing genuine understanding and connection to flourish. Jared’s approach prioritises inner work and emotional regulation, promoting letting go of dogma while strengthening ties of community and support.
Jared’s insights prompt us to consider: can true inclusion be advanced without first healing ourselves and our relationships? How does emotional intelligence, mindfulness, and genuine connection underpin the drive for lasting impact?
In this month’s Spotlight, get ready to re-examine how we enact change—moving beyond the noise and outrage, and towards clarity, compassion, and resilience. Healing at the Heart will inspire you to see inclusion work not only as a call to action, but as a call to personal and collective healing.
YouTube Description
YouTube Description:
Opening Hook:
Is your fight for justice actually fuelling more division? Discover why “being right” in social justice spaces may be pushing us further apart—and how true healing begins at the heart.
Summary of Insight:
In this thought-provoking episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, host Joanne Lockwood is joined by personal development coach Jared Karol to explore the transformative power of equanimity and healing at the intersection of social change. Together, they challenge the default reactions of “shutting down or fighting back,” urging us to reflect on how we respond to injustice—both externally and within ourselves.
You’ll hear honest dialogue about:
How privilege and marginalisation shape our instincts in tough conversations
The dangers of righteousness without emotional regulation
Lessons from social justice leaders who evolved from anger to compassionate action
The underappreciated role of inner work, mindfulness, and connection in driving sustainable change
Practical techniques for building equanimity and emotional intelligence in the face of conflict, ridicule, or online toxicity
Takeaways & Actions:
After watching, you’ll think twice about letting righteous outrage control your narrative. You’ll feel empowered to pause, breathe, and seek connection instead of conflict—making your activism more sustainable and impactful. And you’ll act with greater emotional intelligence, whether advocating for change online, offline, or within yourself.
Ready to disrupt the status quo with empathy and wisdom? Hit subscribe and join the bold Inclusion Bites community. Share your insights below or reach out to join the conversation!
#InclusionBites #SocialChange #EmotionalIntelligence #Belonging #DEI #InnerWork #EmpathyInAction #HealingJustice #MindfulDialogue #SustainableChange
For more bold conversations, visit the Inclusion Bites Podcast: https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen
Contact Joanne: jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk
10 Question Quiz
10-Question Multiple Choice Quiz – “Healing at the Heart”, Inclusion Bites Podcast (Host: Joanne Lockwood)
1. What central idea does Joanne Lockwood use to introduce the Inclusion Bites Podcast?
A) The latest trends in HR
B) It is a sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change
C) Exclusive interviews with celebrities
D) Financial advice for marginalised communities
2. According to Joanne Lockwood, what does the podcast aim to help listeners do?
A) Identify famous activists
B) Uncover the unseen and challenge the status quo
C) Organise protests
D) Learn the basics of DEI work
3. What phrase does Joanne Lockwood use to express what Inclusion Bites provides listeners?
A) “All you need to solve inclusion”
B) “Your guide to a new career”
C) “Your sanctuary for bold conversations”
D) “Ten steps to success”
4. How does Joanne Lockwood position herself in relation to the audience in her introduction?
A) As a passive observer
B) As their guide on a journey of exploration
C) As their competitor
D) As a distant commentator
5. What analogy does Joanne Lockwood use to encourage listeners to engage with the podcast?
A) “Tighten your shoelaces and get ready”
B) “Adjust your earbuds and settle in”
C) “Sit up straight and take notes”
D) “Grab a toolkit for change”
6. What opportunity does Joanne Lockwood regularly offer her listeners?
A) To sign up for discounts
B) To join her in protests
C) To participate and share their insights or join her on the show
D) To win merchandise
7. When reflecting on how to achieve change, what does Joanne Lockwood suggest is required?
A) Only passionate protestors
B) Only logical negotiators
C) A spectrum of approaches – from visible activism to nuanced lobbying
D) Personal isolation
8. How does Joanne Lockwood describe her own personal growth in advocacy over time?
A) Becoming less involved
B) Moving towards a more relaxed, logical and pragmatic approach
C) Becoming more radical
D) Giving up on DEI work
9. In the context of disagreement or criticism, how does Joanne Lockwood suggest one should respond?
A) By counter-attacking
B) By simply ignoring critics
C) By reframing criticism as graffiti – not taking it personally
D) By withdrawing from public life
10. What does Joanne Lockwood identify as the ultimate aim of the podcast in her conclusion?
A) To make money for sponsors
B) To foster a more inclusive world
C) To convince everyone to agree
D) To critique government policy
Answer Key & Rationale
B – Joanne Lockwood opens by describing the podcast as “your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change.”
B – She explicitly states her aim: “Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo and share stories that resonate deep within.”
C – The phrase she uses is “your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change.”
B – Joanne Lockwood says, “I’m Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration…”
B – She encourages, “So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It’s time to ignite the spark of inclusion...”
C – She invites listeners to “be part of the conversation too… share your insights or join me on the show.”
C – She explains the importance of both passionate activism and nuanced, logical approaches to change.
B – Joanne Lockwood discusses becoming more pragmatic and logical as she’s matured in advocacy.
C – She uses the analogy of ‘graffiti on a wall’ to illustrate not absorbing personal attacks – a way of maintaining equanimity.
B – In her closing, Joanne Lockwood reaffirms her commitment “to fostering a more inclusive world one episode at a time.”
Summary Paragraph
Through her role as host, Joanne Lockwood defines Inclusion Bites as a sanctuary for bold conversations that seek to spark societal change. She positions herself as a guide on a journey with listeners, encouraging them to adjust their earbuds and settle in as the podcast explores unseen challenges and inspires action. Joanne Lockwood offers her audience the opportunity to engage directly, emphasising the importance of combining passionate activism with nuanced, logical advocacy to achieve real change. Reflecting on her own growth, she describes a transition towards a more pragmatic approach, advocating for resilience in the face of criticism by reframing attacks as mere ‘graffiti’, not to be internalised. Ultimately, the podcast’s purpose is to foster a more inclusive world, uniting stories and voices for collective progress.
Rhyme Scheme and Rhythm Podcast Poetry
Healing at the Heart: A Rhyme on Inclusion
Within each soul, a battle brews,
A need for calm when faced with news—
Of pain and scorn, of being “other,”
Of longing simply to recover.
Composure found in turbulent air,
Equanimity—when life’s unfair—
To neither rage nor shroud in grief,
But greet each storm with measured belief.
The world calls loud for urgent change,
Yet passion wild can oft estrange.
Let anger breathe, but do not dwell;
Let purpose rise, and truths compel.
Marchers shout through city crowds,
While others wear their logic proud.
Each role essential, each voice a part
Of building hope—a healing art.
So mirror self, the lens reframe,
For justice thrives when hearts acclaim—
That letting go and forging ties
Transforms not only mind, but skies.
Graffiti words may scar the wall,
But not the soul who’s heard the call
To rise above, to wish no ill,
Yet hold conviction, calm and still.
For wounds may ache and rights be slighted,
But empathy keeps paths united.
Let stories flow, let listening start,
For change is kindled—at the heart.
If lines like these inspire your mind,
Subscribe, connect, and help us find
New voices keen to share and grow—
Together sow the seeds we know.
With thanks to Jared Karol for a fascinating podcast episode.
Key Learnings
Key Learning & Takeaway:
The core takeaway from this episode of Inclusion Bites, "Healing at the Heart," is the vital role of equanimity and healing-centred approaches within social change and inclusion work. True, sustainable impact in DEI (Diversity, Equity & Inclusion) stems not just from external advocacy or impassioned activism, but from cultivating inner awareness, emotional regulation, and meaningful connection. Rather than perpetuating divisiveness, effective change-makers blend conviction with compassion—bridging the urgent "why" of the cause, the "what" of their actions, and the "how" of bringing people together, fostering true inclusion and healing at both individual and collective levels.
Point #1: Equanimity as a Superpower
Equanimity—defined here as composure and poise amid challenge—enables individuals to stay present and open in difficult conversations, rather than shutting down or escalating conflict. Jared Karol illustrated how this skill helps avoid reactive extremes and instead creates space for dialogue, truth, and learning.
Point #2: From Woke Activism to Sustainable Change
The episode explored the evolution many people go through, moving from "social justice warrior" intensity to a more nuanced understanding of activism. Sustainable progress is achieved not merely by fighting injustice, but by integrating healing, self-reflection, and emotional intelligence—embracing both protest and pragmatic dialogue.
Point #3: Healing Requires Connection & Letting Go
Healing in inclusion work emerges from genuine connection and the capacity to let go of dogma and divisiveness. Through storytelling, Jared Karol emphasised making space for empathy, deeper relationships, and understanding the why behind others’ behaviours, rather than perpetuating cycles of outrage or comparative suffering.
Point #4: Thought-Terminating Clichés & Dialogue Breakdown
The dangers of “thought-terminating clichés”—responses that shut down dialogue and understanding—were highlighted. True inclusion means resisting the urge to other, ridicule, or disengage, opting instead for curiosity and compassionate engagement, even across difference and discomfort. Change is stifled when individuals become fixated on being right vs. being effective.
Summary:
Healing at the Heart isn’t about ignoring pain or injustice—it’s about recognising that inner work and interpersonal connection are just as crucial as external advocacy. The path to a more inclusive world demands sustained emotional intelligence, compassion, and a willingness to transcend binaries—for only then does inclusion bite, and real change ignite.
Maxims to live by…
Maxims to Live By: Healing at the Heart
Cultivate Equanimity. Approach both adversity and success with composure and balance. Avoid being swept away by elation or drowned by hardship; centre yourself and act consciously.
Do Your Inner Work. True understanding begins with honest self-reflection. Attend to your healing, examine your motivations, and trace the roots of your reactions before seeking to change the world around you.
Hold Conviction Without Hostility. Advocate for your values with clarity and purpose, but resist arrogance, dogma, or aggression. Let go of the need to be “right” at all costs.
Choose Connection Over Division. Seek genuine connection with others—even (and especially) those who see the world differently. Move beyond labelling, gossiping, and “othering”.
Listen with Curiosity, Not Certainty. Cultivate an openness to nuance. When challenged, prioritise curiosity rather than defaulting to defensiveness or disengagement.
Let Go to Heal. Release the urge to control every outcome, to cling to righteous anger, or to perpetuate a narrative of perpetual conflict. Healing and progress are rooted in lightness and flexibility.
Recognise Intersectionality of Experience. Honour that everyone navigates the world with differing degrees and types of privilege and marginalisation. Don’t compare suffering—hold compassion for the realities of all.
Lead with Emotional Intelligence. Practise self-awareness, emotional regulation, and thoughtful engagement. Avoid reactive behaviour that serves only to escalate division.
Resist Thought-Terminating Clichés. Don’t shut down complex conversations with slogans or dismissals. Allow space for difficult dialogue and for perspectives to evolve.
Model What You Wish to See. Change is enacted not just through protest but through the ways you build community, create safety, and foster sustainable relationships.
Harness Purpose, Temper Passion. Let your purpose guide you, rather than unchecked passion that may cloud judgement. Steadiness of intent is more enduring than incendiary rhetoric.
Embrace Healing as Collective and Individual. Healing is not only an inner journey but also a communal act. The wellbeing of all depends on how we each show up—in solidarity and with empathy.
Reject Dehumanisation—In All Its Forms. Whenever you find yourself tempted to dehumanise or dismiss others, pause. Meeting harm with harm perpetuates suffering; meeting it with integrity breaks cycles.
Cherish Progress Over Perfection. Social change is slow, complex, and often untidy. Contribute where you can and with humility, trusting that accumulation of small acts shapes the whole.
Let Generosity Guide Your Dialogue. Approach every interaction as an opportunity to learn, support, and uplift. Genuine change is built on the foundations of openness and kindness.
In living these maxims, both individual healing and societal transformation are possible.
Extended YouTube Description
YouTube Video Description: Healing at the Heart | Inclusion Bites Podcast with Jared Karol & Joanne Lockwood
Timestamps
00:00 – Introduction to Inclusion Bites
01:15 – Welcoming guest Jared Karol
03:54 – Unpacking ‘Equanimity’ as a superpower
06:02 – Navigating social justice, privilege, and lived experience
13:18 – The ‘why’, ‘what’, and ‘how’ of social change
18:03 – Awakening to privilege and shifting perspectives
25:41 – The role of healing and mindfulness in social justice
31:10 – Personal stories: Connection, compassion, and letting go
39:34 – Dialogue breaks down barriers, not outrage
42:01 – Understanding “unreal othering” and the cycle of dehumanisation
46:59 – Coaching for inclusive, sustainable change
51:31 – Emotional intelligence and managing attacks
59:29 – Practical steps for cultivating equanimity
1:02:13 – Call to action and closing remarks
In This Episode:
Healing at the Heart explores the transformative power of equanimity, self-awareness, and authentic connection within the landscape of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI).
Host Joanne Lockwood and guest Jared Karol (personal development coach and co-founder of Three Arrows Coaching) delve into practical strategies for fostering resilient, compassionate conversations—even amidst heated debate and injustice. Drawing on lived experiences, including Jared’s journey with privilege, marginalisation, and mindfulness, this episode equips listeners with actionable steps to:
Develop equanimity and emotional intelligence when confronting societal challenges
Move beyond “social justice warrior” burnout to sustainable, impactful change
Balance passion and purpose for long-term inclusion results
Break the cycle of “othering” and master techniques for connecting across differences
Transform conflict into growth, with frameworks from thought leaders like Deepa Iyer, Lama Rod Owens, and Don Miguel Ruiz
Whether you’re a DEI professional, HR leader, changemaker, or anyone striving to nurture belonging and inclusion, this conversation offers both inspiration and practical tools for everyday and long-term impact.
Key Takeaways for Inclusion Champions & People Leaders:
Learn why emotional regulation and self-reflection are vital for sustainable advocacy
Actionable mindfulness and healing techniques for dealing with adversity
Understand the spectrum of social change roles and why each is essential
How to reframe online negativity and disengage from unproductive outrage cycles
Next-level strategies to turn personal stories into powerful inclusion drivers
Ready to create meaningful change in your organisation or community? Start by healing at the heart!
🔔 Subscribe for more actionable inclusion insights: Inclusion Bites Podcast
👍 Like, comment, and share to inspire inclusive action in your network!
🌐 Visit seechangehappen.co.uk for resources, coaching, and to join our next DEI conversation.
🎧 Listen to another inspiring episode: [Related Video]
Relevant Hashtags:
#InclusionBites #DEI #DiversityandInclusion #HealingCentered #Equanimity #SocialChange #EmotionalIntelligence #Mindfulness #Belonging #JoanneLockwood #JaredKarol #PositivePeopleExperiences
For business enquiries, guest opportunities, or to share your inclusion story, contact:
jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk
Transform your approach to inclusion. Join the conversation, one bold episode at a time.
Substack Post
Holding the Centre: Healing as a Catalyst for Inclusion
Have you ever left a difficult conversation about inclusion feeling either utterly exhausted or completely shut down? You’re not alone. So many of us working in Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) grapple with the challenge of how to keep talking, listening, and driving change—without burning ourselves out or losing the very connection we’re striving to build. This conundrum sits at the heart of this week’s Inclusion Bites Podcast episode, “Healing at the Heart”, and I’ll be honest: it might just be one of the most vital conversations I’ve had to date.
Equanimity: The Bridge Over Troubled Waters
In this episode, I welcomed Jared Karol, a personal development coach whose work is rooted at the intersection of social change and healing. Jared’s journey is both deeply personal and universally resonant—he shared how witnessing his father’s experience as a gay man in 1980s America, the pain and growth that came with that, and his own evolution from snarky “newly-woke” teacher to a more measured advocate, shaped his perspective on true change.
We explored the often-overlooked skill of equanimity—that inner steadiness allowing us to hold conflicting truths, to stay present amid suffering, and to resist getting swept away by the emotional turbulence that inevitably arises when addressing injustice. This conversation is particularly relevant for HR professionals, D&I and Talent leads, Organisational Development specialists, and anyone in a leadership or people-centred role. In the world of workplace inclusion, it’s not simply what you do, but how you show up that makes all the difference.
What We Unpacked Together
Jared and I delved into:
The personal and organisational costs of approaching DEI work with unchecked fervour, and why passion without healing often leads to burnout or harmful divides.
The difference between surface-level “doing the work” of DEI (understanding the issues, learning the history) and the deeper, sustaining inner work required for long-term change.
How those at the centre of privilege can become meaningful allies, not by charging ahead as zealots, but through humility, listening, and a commitment to personal growth.
Ways to hold space for outrage, grief, and protest—while building connections that sustain movements, organisations, and ourselves for the long journey.
It’s a conversation full of nuance and vulnerability, shining a light on what it really means to advance equity while remaining whole and healthy.
Seeds to Plant: Insights to Nurture Inclusion
Here are the lessons I believe can make the DEI journey more sustainable and fruitful for professionals at every level:
1. Practise Equanimity, Not Indifference
Equanimity isn’t about staying neutral or apathetic—it’s about remaining composed in the face of adversity. Jared’s distinction between “shutting down” and “fighting back” versus staying present and open is critical. For those leading change, it means responding rather than reacting, even when the topic is deeply personal or the resistance feels overwhelming. A little more pause, a little less fire and brimstone, can go a remarkably long way.
2. Balance Passion with Purpose
Many of us enter DEI work with profound passion. Yet, as Jared wisely noted, “sometimes our passion gets in the way of our purpose.” When we’re intent on being right, when the heat of the moment governs our actions, we can alienate would-be allies and even those we aim to support. Reconnect often to your deeper why—what world are you truly hoping to build?
3. Lean into Healing—For Ourselves and Others
As practitioners, we often focus outward: fixing, changing, advocating for others. But healing-centred inclusion work, as inspired by thinkers like Dr Sean Ginright, asks us to look inwards too. What unhealed hurts do we carry into these spaces? Where are we still carrying shame, resentment, or fear? Addressing our own wounds is foundational; without it, collective healing remains elusive.
4. Honour the Value of Connection
Jared reminded us that being “right” is not the same as being effective. Lasting change is relational, not transactional. Especially in moments of disagreement, seek to understand before you seek to be understood. Build empathy through stories and human connection, not arguments and statistics alone.
5. Always Be a Student
The best leaders and changemakers are always learning. Whether it’s from the lived experience of people unlike ourselves, from our own mistakes, or simply from new frameworks (like Deepa Iyer’s “social change ecosystem”), curiosity beats certainty every time.
Glimpse the Conversation: A Moment to Reflect
I’m delighted to share a specially selected one-minute audiogram from my conversation with Jared. If you’re after an authentic snapshot of the episode’s energy and wisdom, look no further.
Let this brief excerpt ground you in what’s possible when we approach DEI work from a place of both conviction and compassion.
Listen and Share: Bringing Healing to the Forefront
If this resonates, don’t miss the chance to immerse yourself fully. The complete episode offers rich practical strategies, memorable personal stories, and the kind of earnest dialogue our sector desperately needs.
I encourage you to share this episode widely—whether with your D&I network, your HR team, or anyone keen to push inclusion beyond box-ticking and into the heart of workplace culture. The more we talk about healing-centred DEI, the more likely we’ll plant seeds for long-lasting change.
Where Do We Go From Here?
So here’s my question to you: In your own DEI journey, how might you bring more steadiness and healing to your conversations—instead of anger or withdrawal? What if the true catalyst for workplace transformation is not outrage or shame, but presence and equanimity?
Let’s pause, breathe, and commit to nurturing both ourselves and our teams—one brave, healing-centred conversation at a time.
—
If you’d like to continue exploring how healing, belonging, and equity can shape your workplace, stay connected on LinkedIn, YouTube, or visit SEE Change Happen for more thought leadership and resources.
To share your stories, collaborate, or discuss supporting your organisation’s inclusion goals, reach out to me at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk.
Together, let’s ensure healing sits at the very heart of our work.
Warm regards,
Joanne Lockwood
Host, Inclusion Bites Podcast
The Inclusive Culture Expert at SEE Change Happen
1st Person Narrative Content
Healing at the Heart: How Equanimity Shapes Social Change
By Jared Karol
The Power of Equanimity Amidst Chaos
“There’s this ongoing question hanging over our sector: Can we truly shift systems without first healing ourselves?” It’s a hard-won awareness that anchors everything I do—not because it’s easy, but because the world constantly conspires to unnerve, divide, and distract us. The work of inclusion, justice, and social change demands more than clever strategy. It demands a steady mind, a regulated heart, and the rare ability to build connection in the heat of conflict.
This was the unmistakable throughline when I sat down with Joanne Lockwood, host of Inclusion Bites Podcast. Even as we traded stories of protest and patience, trauma and teaching, I kept returning to the same conviction: Systems only change sustainably when we, the “changemakers”, commit to emotional grounding. Without it, we become casualties of our own passion, lost in a cycle of righteous anger that seldom brings healing.
Why Healing Matters—Personally and Collectively
I never expected my journey into personal development and coaching to be so shaped by my father’s life, and death. Growing up as the straight, white son of a gay man dying of AIDS in 2000, I was handed both privilege and pain. I tried hiding from the harder truths for years, insulated by geographical separation and a youthful lack of maturity. But when he passed, I found myself drawn into two kinds of “work”—understanding injustice, yes, but also cultivating my own late-blooming equanimity.
The world is inequitable and unfair, and as I told Joanne, the suffering and hardship we encounter daily can either break us or reshape us. If we react only with anger or withdrawal, we perpetuate the very storylines we hope to change. If instead we embrace what Buddhist philosophy calls equanimity—a fierce kind of calm—we discover new ways to hold presence, to be open without being overwhelmed, and to keep engaging when the pressure mounts.
Inclusion Bites Podcast: A Platform for Disruption
Joanne Lockwood, the force behind Inclusion Bites, is herself a challenger of norms and status quos. With deep roots in SEE Change Happen and personal experience navigating marginalisation and belonging, Joanne brings both empathy and rigour to her interviews. She doesn’t just talk diversity; she embodies it—creating space for the sorts of stories mainstream discourse often rounds off or silences.
More than [INSERT_VIEW_COUNT] people have already watched our interview on YouTube, with many more tuning in via Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
If this conversation sparks something for you—questions, pushback, or agreement—I’d love to hear your thoughts in the comments below. I read every one.
The Roots and Realities of Equanimity
When Joanne asked about the word “equanimity,” it was more than a semantic curiosity—it was about survival in the crucible of change. I described the essence not as passive calm, but as conscious composure when confronted by suffering or joy. I’ve seen so many activists, myself included, ricochet between elation and despair. Social justice work can be intoxicating, but also corrosive, when performed without self-awareness.
For me, equanimity is the antidote to those twin temptations: shutting down or fighting back. “When you’re oppressed, marginalised, at the brunt of someone else’s bullying or discrimination, those are often the two choices,” Joanne observed. “Shut down, run away, tail between your legs, or come out with teeth showing and growling…”
My own first decade after my father’s death was marked by that exact polarity. I charged into teaching, armed with new theories and righteous fervour, often telling others exactly how “unwoke” they were. It was unsustainable. Eventually, I saw that getting people to change required more than volume or correctness; it required showing, not telling. Staying present, not dominating. That’s when I made the shift and started to see real, lasting change in myself and those around me.
Why Purpose Needs More Than Passion
Too often, our “passion”—fuelled by urgency, trauma, and the desperate wish for a better world—derails our actual purpose. Jo and I both remarked on how movements need not just anger and activism, but also the slow, methodical change-making of the nuanced, politically oriented organisers. I came back to what I’ve learnt from systems thinkers like Deepa Iyer: not all of us are built to be frontline protesters. Movements need caretakers, educators, coaches, storytellers, and quiet connectors. The “what” of our role matters as much as the “why,” but most neglected is the “how”: the way we show up, the style in which we engage, and the emotional work we do.
It’s taken me decades, but I now believe most sustainable change happens when we mature from lens (seeing injustice everywhere) to mirror (examining our own contributions to chaos). Dr. Shawn Ginwright, whose work on healing-centred engagement I deeply respect, argues for just this pivot—a switch that’s demanded not by privilege, but by necessity.
From Personal Pain to Public Presence
My story is one of mourning privilege and gaining marginalisation, as Joanne described so well. When my father came out to me at fourteen, I was terrified, ashamed, and unable to speak the truth for years. Even as an adult, I lied and obfuscated about his life, dodging the emotional reckoning. It wasn’t until a friend shrugged off my confession (“Big fucking deal”) that I started letting go of the shame. Later, as I joined my father in meditation circles in San Francisco, I discovered not just Buddhist philosophy, but a practical toolkit for dealing with pain. After his death, I committed to both social justice and personal inner work—a dual path that’s shaped every coaching session and keynote I deliver.
Why Letting Go Is Not Giving Up
Letting go is a difficult, often misunderstood concept. “It doesn’t mean ignoring or dismissing,” I explained. “It means being lighter… understanding what’s going on for ourselves, for the world, for the people we care about, and not carrying it so heavily.” Trauma can motivate us, but unless we know how to move from obsession with “the cause,” we risk becoming brittle, burnt out, and divisive.
Joanne shared her own evolution from angry activist to pragmatic change-maker, recognising that “in order to enact change, you need different people with different levels of passion.” I agree—movements require those who march in the streets and those who lobby in parliament. But what’s most impactful is not the extremity of our stance, but the sustainability of our engagement.
Connection Over Comparative Suffering
Another pivotal shift was learning that connection matters more than comparative suffering. My mother, who raised me alone after my father left, reminded me one night, “You write a lot about how your dad being gay influenced you and your politics, but you never write about how he wasn’t around to raise you.” That moment recalibrated my empathy. We cannot trade pain or measure our hardship against one another; we must honour the complexity and interconnectedness of our stories.
It’s not about whose life is tougher, but about seeing every person’s experience as relevant and worthy. The wisdom here is simple: real inclusion happens when we stop trading pain and start building bridges—especially with those whose “unreal otherness” might tempt us to dismiss or attack.
Practising Thoughtful Engagement
As urgent as our work may be, outrage cannot be the only currency. Joanne and I both recounted experiences of ad hominem attacks online, graffiti-like slurs, or public ridicule—moments where dialogue collapsed into caricature. These exchanges rarely reflect personal reality, only the projective anger of the sender.
Equanimity allows me to face these attacks with clarity. “It’s just graffiti on a wall,” Joanne said. “All I’ve got to do is keep driving and drive past it.” This isn’t insensitivity; it’s strategic self-preservation. People may want to be “right,” but real progress demands nuance, empathy, and persistent openness—not the exhausted polarity of perpetual conflict.
Healing as a Systemic Imperative
Does the world feel more polarised than ever? Perhaps. Social media and news algorithms thrive on outrage bait, driving revenue through clicks and conflict rather than constructive action. What matters is not how many views or comments we receive, but whether anyone actually takes positive action as a result.
This is why equanimity is not just a personal practice, but a systemic imperative. It underpins emotional intelligence and regulates our collective response to injustice. I’ve often been asked, “Who are you to tell marginalised people how to react?” My answer is always the same: I’m inviting a shift toward healing, not replacement of anyone’s righteous feelings. Outrage alone hasn’t stopped suffering—or created the sustainable change we seek.
Practical Tools for Cultivating Equanimity
If I were to distil everything I know about equanimity into a book for practical action, I’d begin with meditation. Cultivate inner peace and clarity proactively—not as crisis management, but as daily practice. Build deep connection, not just with allies, but with everyone you encounter. Be impeccable with your word. Learn to let go of “charge” without surrendering conviction. And always write and speak with clarity and purpose, never from a place of contempt.
Emotional regulation is not just a Buddhist ideal; it’s the foundation of effective change-making. I call it emotional sobriety—a deliberate choice to move beyond knee-jerk reactions and into sustained leadership.
A Closing Reflection: Healing at the Heart
Change does not begin with the system; it begins with the individual, then radiates outward. Trauma, passion, and privilege are all real, but they need emotional grounding to be generative rather than self-destructive. Equanimity—my word for fierce composure in the fire—remains the most powerful tool I know for doing this work.
The world will always present us with storms. Our greatest task is to become the eye—calm, clear, and able to see both suffering and possibility. When healing sits at the heart of our practice, justice is no longer just a dream or a slogan; it becomes an everyday reality, seeded by each conversation, each act, each choice to show up differently.
If this journey resonates, let me know your own story below. We change as individuals, yes—but only together do we build a new, unshakeable foundation.
Song Lyrics from Episode
[Title
Healing at the Heart]
Synopsis
Episode 187’s “Healing at the Heart” resonates as a compassionate call for inner change and social connection. Inspired by the honest dialogue between [Joanne Lockwood and Jared Karol, the lyrics blend vulnerability and bravery, advocating emotional balance, healing, and real belonging amid struggle. Warm acoustic textures and female vocals embody truthfulness, empathy, and a quietly unstoppable resolve.]
[Vibe
Empowering, reflective and emotionally grounded indie pop with acoustic nuances. Warm finger-picked guitar, gentle yet confident percussion, atmospheric pads. Female lead vocal — direct but warm, soft harmonies on the chorus and bridge. Instrumental builds in pre-chorus and bridge, ending with a gentle, echoing fade-out. Suitable for scenes of self-discovery, honest conversation, or slow-motion turning points.]
Lyrics
[Verse 1]
Woke with the world on my shoulders,
Caught in the stories, names, and rules,
Truth at the heart can feel colder —
Sometimes the wise ones are fools.
Mirror in hand, I faced my own silence,
Carved out the healing new,
Letting go, finding balance,
Compassion cuts through.
[Instrumental—gentle picked guitar, airy pads]
[Verse 2]
Been the teacher, the fighter, the seeker,
Stamped by history’s pain and pride,
Learned that fighting gets us weaker,
Learned to soften, not to hide.
We’re all walking this same border
Between the anger and the grace —
Building bridges takes disorder,
Connection takes space.
[Pre-Chorus]
Let’s make a circle from these broken lines,
Let’s trade our pain, not sharpen knives,
Strength grows from the wounds we mind,
Healing isn’t far — it’s inside.
[Chorus]
I’ll hold the light
Through the shadows, through the fight,
When your voice won’t rise
And you ache for the night,
You’re not alone,
No, you’re never alone —
Come heal at the heart
Come heal at the heart.
[Instrumental—uplift on guitar, subtle harmonies]
[Verse 3]
Graffiti words try to stick to my skin,
But I choose to drive past, let go,
This is not the war anyone wins,
But kindness finds a door to show.
Purpose outruns the passion,
True change is slow and brave,
Let connection be our action —
Let us show up, save what we can save.
[Bridge]
Bridge the war with wisdom,
Let the bullets fly on by,
Be the keeper of quiet courage,
Hold the hope, dry the eyes.
Let the mirror meet the lens
And the circle open wide —
We can only rise together
When our hearts are healed inside.
[Instrumental—layered harmonies, gentle percussion swell, falling to soft guitar]
[Final Chorus (Lifted)]
I’ll hold the light
When the headlines bite,
When the roads divide
And you struggle for right.
Bring your story, bring your scars,
I’ve got room, I’ve got arms —
Come heal at the heart,
Yes, we heal at the heart.
[Fading out—echoes of healing at the heart, soft humming, gentle guitar riff]
[Artistic Directions: Build verses with gentle storytelling and poetic metaphor. Chorus grows in hopefulness and communal resolve. Bridge brings emotional lift, then softens for introspection. Instrumentals should match the warmth and vulnerability, ending with hopeful fade-out. Make space for every word to sit with the listener before moving on — emotional intelligence as musical structure.]
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