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Beyond Performative Inclusion
The Inclusion Bites Podcast
Beyond Performative Inclusion
SW
Speaker
Sile Walsh
JL
Speaker
Joanne Lockwood
00:00 "Sheila Walsh Name Story" 07:51 Mixed Cultural Identity Challenges 12:26 Navigating Identity and Respect 20:31 "Equality and Harm in Identity" 23:51 Practical Inclusive Leadership Insights 28:43 "DEI Missteps in Organisations" 32:29 Navigating Conflict with Compassion 38:05 Moving Forward, Not Staying Sorry 46:40 Authenticity and Leadership Boundaries 48:01 Leadership, Communication,…
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Featured moments
Highlights
“The Power of Belonging: "Remember, everyone not only belongs, but thrives.”
“Growing Up Between Cultures: "living in a country that isn't of your culture for formative years changes your cultural identity”
“The Complexity of Cultural Identity: "this sense of home is so, so different. And I really resonate with that because I have brothers who have. So also my accent, it might not be obvious to you, Joanne, but my accent in Ireland is considered English and in England my accent is consider considered Irish, but my brothers have Irish accents.”
“Cultural Identity and School Lunches "It's interesting these kind of how that kind of cultural mixed background, even though technically both my parents are Irish and my heritage is Irish, still comes into effect because of my lived experiences and being cultured in different, different norms.”
“you go to Finland, stay for a week in a Finnish family with their children and you'd sit in the hot tub outside, they'd put logs in the burner and they'd heat the hot tub and vodka. And Estonia running around in naked and jumping into plunge pools at three in the morning, having a lot of work done. But you're living within the culture and you really get to understand them.”
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Full transcript
Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyone not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo and share storeys that resonate deep within. Ready to dive in. Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect and inspire action together. Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too.
Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to share your insights or to join me on the show. So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites.
And today is episode 192 with the title Beyond Performative Inclusion. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Sile Walsh. Sile is an award winning coach, author and leadership specialist dedicated to embedding equity and psychological safety into leadership and organisational culture worldwide. When I asked Sile to describe their superpower, they said it is bridging lived experience with leadership insight to drive systemic inclusion. Hello, Sile.
Welcome to the show, Joanne. Thank you for having me.
Absolute pleasures. And when I was just logging on this morning to set this episode up, I was looking at your name, thinking, I wonder how I pronounce that? And I had to nip onto LinkedIn. So whilst you're speaking English, you're not from England, you're from Ireland. Yeah?
Yes, yes. And my name is spelled, it's actually, I've butchered it a little bit. It's actually with a father, so S I fader L E. But a lot of people call me Sile, which I am fine with. But when I used to live in England, actually, and I'd be called like in the hospital or something, they used to come out and say, silly, do we have sill? Because they didn't want to say silly and that's what they thought my name was. But yes. So I'm based in Ireland, in Dublin. I have lived and worked in the UK and I still do go back and forth for work, but my name, and actually my name here is Walsh, but my Irish name is Sile Branock, but it's, it's a mouthful to spell for people, so Sile Walsh is much quicker and it's.
It's kind of a shame really that you have to adapt who you are to make it easier for other People, as you say. Yeah, your. Your authentic surname is hard for people to spell or hard for people to. To read and pronounce, I guess, and find ourselves having to fit into other people's cultures, don't we?
Yeah, it's an interesting one because in Ireland, being Irish is very like. Is very important and I know every country has it, but because of our history with the uk, it is very important. And having an Irish name for lots of people is more than their name, it's about their. Their history and. And what side of the history that they. They are Irish from, let's say. I actually don't mind because for me, who I am and my identity is about my relationship with myself first and foremost. And then my.
For me in the world, my job is to find the places where I can meet other people and they can meet me. And sometimes I have to adjust, sometimes they have to adjust. It doesn't. Even though it's my name, it doesn't feel like an adjustment of who I am. It feels like a translation, which is different to this idea of fitting. I'm just translating it to something that's understandable. But, yeah, it's a bit like when I deal with my nephew who's now 11 and I adore, or my niece, who's 17. I adjust my conversations to meet them in a way that we can meet each other.
So I don't. I don't feel that same pressure. Whereas there's other people who do very strongly feel that it's important that you know their authentic name and can pronounce it in their language. I know most people don't speak Irish and so saying my Irish name, they butcher it anyway, you know what I mean? Even with the best attempt, if you don't speak a tongue. Like, I'm not great at Irish myself, but I know enough to be able to pronounce the word. So it's an. It's an interesting one. You know, how we're seen in the world and how we interact based on our names.
I think, yeah, that's important. You know this. What you do is psychological safety, organisational culture. Sometimes what we find when we talk about inclusion is demands of people to meet us where we are, rather than trying to find that middle ground and meeting each other somewhere in the middle there to help each other come a barrier or a conflict or a challenge. What you're doing here is you're putting yourself into the middle rather than expecting everyone to come to you.
But the reason that I do that is because I'm not letting myself behind when I do that. So there'll be parts of my identity that I might feel if I don't bring with me very strongly I've left something important behind. And I'm sure for people, we all have different versions of what part that would be. But my name, like my name, for me, I'm named after my grandmother. I'm the eldest of that. That line. I was the first grandchild, but I'm also the first female. The name means so much more than what anyone would ever conceive anyway.
And so I bring it with me where I am, as opposed to needing other people to see it the way I see it. Yeah. So it's interesting. But for other people, it has very different meanings and weights, but I do. It depends whether we have to, when we meet someone, wherever we meet them, whether leaving it behind is protective in some way and we don't really have the choice. Whereas for me, it's in me, so it doesn't matter if other people understand it. I can hold it for myself and it doesn't have a negative impact on me, you know, Whereas maybe if people presume I'm English, that has a different impact. So I don't just leave that in the background.
So there's these kind of subtle things that I guess we all have that have more and less need for external witnessing. And just my name isn't. Because it comes from. Well, it's Irish, so it has a deep heritage meaning. It's my grandmother's name. It's an honour to be named after someone who raised my aunts and uncles with such courage and velocity and, you know, so. So to me, I don't need somebody to know all that for me to. To be comfortable with it.
But there would be other things, as I'm sure we all have, that it would. Like when people assume I'm English abroad, that's quite frustrating as an Irish person. Right. So. And sometimes even in Ireland, because I grew up in, in the uk, I spent a couple of years in uk and in the uk I was Irish because that was how we understood ourselves growing up in London. Come back to Ireland and I assume I'm Irish, but I'm actually English to the Irish kids. Right. So in both places, I was never quite enough, I guess, or, or.
Or didn't belong enough. And so when someone mistakes my heritage, that hurts, but not when they mistake my. My name or, you know, I hold that differently. Although I'm getting better now when they mistake where I'm from, I'm Thinking, yeah, well, it's your best guess. It's not bad guess.
I've chatted to other people in the past who have mixed heritage and this lady I spoke to always said that she's too white to be black and too black to be white. So you're, you're too English to be Irish and too Irish to be English, and it's obviously. But you're not, you don't want to be English, but you, your native, if you like, you've inherited a worldly Persona.
And it's an interesting one because I spoke to a psychologist at a conference a couple of years ago. She's a child psychologist and she talked about people from mixed cultural backgrounds. Now, both my parents are Irish, but living in a country that isn't of your culture for formative years changes your cultural identity. And she talks about how those of us who are, who are, have had cultural experiences during development years having mixed culture, even if our parents aren't from a mixed culture, because we've grown up in different cultures and how this sense of home is so, so different. And I really resonate with that because I have brothers who have. So also my accent, it might not be obvious to you, Joanne, but my accent in Ireland is considered English and in England my accent is consider considered Irish, but my brothers have Irish accents. My dad and my mom generally have Irish accents. And so it's also very unusual in my family because I remember talking to, I don't know, when I was out dating, whatever, talking to some guy at the bar and he was saying, he was talking about my dad and my brothers because my dad trained him at one point and he said, no, no, there's no girl there, there's only two lads.
I was like, no, no, they, you've just. They're my brothers and my dad and he's like, no, no, no, they, no, they were never in England. So he was cracking my accent and couldn't place me with my family because of it. And so, so it's interesting these kind of how that kind of cultural mixed background, even though technically both my parents are Irish and my heritage is Irish, still comes into effect because of my lived experiences and being cultured in different, different norms. And like a very subtle one, this one used to come up a lot, was when I started going to school in Ireland, I used to bring pate on toast, which is very. But it's because when our neighbour used to give us pate on toast constantly and it was the only thing I would eat at. And so at home, Everyone thought I was absolutely insane because first of all it's smelly. And second of all, nobody was getting pate on toast in East Cork, small country school and Sheila's like rocking up with her, her burnt toast in her pate.
So there was all these like subtle things, you know. Or we grew up with a Thai person next to us cooking gorgeous Thai food and there was no spices in Ireland when I was growing up, you know what I mean? So we come back with spicy food and they're like, you know. But for us, for me, I just thought everyone grew up with different foods. But that wasn't the case in the countryside in Ireland.
Potato. Potato, wasn't it?
It was, yeah, like it was potato, it was white sandwiches. There was other things, but nothing like what I had exposure from coming from London. And so even that was this kind of cultural odd. Like your 8 year old eats pate on toast, your, you know, they like curries. Like these were very strange things at that time. Now they're not, thankfully, but they were then.
We were then into that because I mentioned in the green room. In the 90s I worked for a bank and travelled extensively over the world for that bank. And also I was a member of a club and the club used to have meets in different countries, different traditional. You stayed in people's houses. So you go to Finland, stay for a week in a Finnish family with their children and you'd sit in the hot tub outside, they'd put logs in the burner and they'd heat the hot tub and vodka. And Estonia running around in naked and jumping into plunge pools at three in the morning, having a lot of work done. But you're living within the culture and you really get to understand them. I suppose that was part of my formative years in my mid to late 20s to my mid to late 30s.
That was part of my adult formulation, if you like. And I got a greater appreciation of the world and culture and ways of people interacting with each other, which I'd never had had. I just stayed as a UK focused person going on holiday once a year. I see myself as more multicultural, which I guess is why the UK's decision to leave the EU did so much at the time. Because that's futures being global, not not local. And I see what you're saying there, it's of culture and the value add that people bring through their history. It was once nothing you said in the green one, because I was just checking how you're identifying your gender so I could make sure I use the Right, pronouns. In the introduction you said agnostic, you know, of the gender.
It's not that you're non binary or not female, you're just not bothered by it. So, yeah.
It'S taken me a while to move through it because from a human rights perspective, I wouldn't want to undermine anyone else else's relationship with their own gender. And I say that because often at the moment, within the kind of LGBTQ plus population, there's all sorts of breaks and arguments and this idea that if you have that identity, it challenges mine and, you know, lots of prob, to me, lots of problematic, oppressive practises occurring when. When. So one of the things with kind of coming from a background and not being Irish enough and then not being English enough and all of these things and then going on to be, you know, to find out I was dyslexic and not really quite being smart on paper, but being quite smart verbally and cognitively, but just not being able to capture on paper and then kind of moving through the queer community. And that's how I identify it more because it's just quicker for me to say I'm queer and not being lesbian enough, gay enough, not being feminine in one way, but then not being this assumption that I'm a certain gender, a certain kind of identity. I started to realise that the only time my gender is relevant is when other people are assessing how they want to interact with me. So the pronouns is a respectful way to do it. That's like a question of how do I respect you in this conversation.
That's great. But often when somebody's trying to put me into any identity group, whether it's through my sexuality or through gender, they're kind of trying to pick a box to put me in to decide how I should be interacted with. And when someone says to me, you know about my gender, like, the only times I know about my gender is based on how other people interact with me. I don't wake up and feel like a strong woman, let's say, unless in that moment something connected to my womanhood is relevant. And if I'm really honest, the only time that anything is connected to something like that, it's more connected to being assigned female at birth, which is mostly around healthcare. That's the most time that anything is relevant to me about these things. And I understand that they're relevant to other people for other reasons, but I just. And I understand, I even understand why, like critical gender feminists hold their position.
I understand why pro trans and non binary People hold their position. I just don't care what you think I am. It doesn't give me anything. The only thing I have an issue with is if you decide I'm something and then you decide how I should be because of it. But my real issue is that your decision about how I should be is my. It's my problem. And if I'm honest, I think it came from first the sexuality stuff, which is, you know, my wife looks they soft, butch, I guess, typically. And people assume I'm femme.
But, like, when we have to deal with situations, I deal with the things that are traditionally considered butch. I grew up in the country, you know, I can do that stuff. She doesn't, let's say. And so when people are putting us in these boxes, I find it really interesting because they're just deciding, first of all that we're female, and then they're deciding what type of female, and then they're deciding what kind of, like, lesbian, you know, and then they go on and on and none of that fits. I'm like, you know, the only time you need to worry about my gender is when it's relevant to you. And that's very rare. And the only time you need to worry about my sexuality is if I'm interested in you. Because you being interested in me doesn't change my sexuality.
So the only time you need to cheque what my sexuality is is if I'm pursuing you. And that's important to you in some way to know a lot of the time. And I just listened to a beautiful piece about one of the activists in the States about who. Who was activating for trans people's rights. And she identified as a. Sorry, he identified as a lesbian and then went on and identified as a trans man, but continued to identify as a lesbian. And one of the quotes that I thought was really powerful was the labels are only meant to be used to help us understand each other, not to stereotype us and put another box. And I suppose that's why I kind of don't interact very actively around gender, because I don't mind interacting about other people's gender if it's important to them.
But my gender to me is only going to be used to make decisions about me that I'd rather you just ask, you know, like, if you want to treat me a certain way, maybe just treat me like a decent human being and don't assume things based on my gender. And if you do assume things, I can say yes or no to them, but it just doesn't it just doesn't make sense to me to tell people what my gender is when it. It's not relevant to them usually. And if I'm. As long as I'm not offended and I'm not offended by any pronoun use. If I was offended, that might be different. But I'm not hurt or offended or I give no weight to the pronouns that are used about me because that's not my experience of me. That's just how someone's making sense of me.
That's fine for me. It's much more important that I know me.
Yeah, people can make sense of me. I. I like that as a kind of. A kind of meeting people where they are. You're recognising that the society needs to have some sort of hand or to hook you on. It's. It's you. You're having to use this terminology, these words, these pronouns for other people's reference, not for your own.
It relates to that I looking the green rice. I just thought about this which I was going to raise, which I'll do now. Is my marooned on a desert island self reflection. So if I'm washed up on a desert island, I'm the only human being on that island. Am I a sexuality? Do I have a gender identity or am I just a survivor? I don't think on my own I'm a survivor. I'm beef human being because that's relative to other creatures on that island that I may be trying to eat. So I guess I'm a human if I'm on my own. Gender's relative.
Sexuality is relative to who I'm around. And when someone comes to rescue me, someone else gets stranded with me that I become relative to them. Am I more feminine or more masculine than the person I'm with? That it has a relativity. But other than that I'm just, I'm just even have a name maybe. Maybe my deep thoughts. I may talk to myself maybe. But my name's not important, my gender's not important, my sexuality is not important. Just whether I can eat, drink and sleep and survive.
I often wonder whether we all concept of gender sexuality. I think as you said it's only relevant if I fancy you then decide if you fancy me then. So yeah, yeah. Isn't that a wonderful place to be where actually matter until I'm interested?
Well, I think there's. There's kind of. Because I get caught on this quite a lot because I think that that speaks to our relationship with ourselves which is kind of. I think One point, and then there's how we're responded to in society is based on how society perceives us, not actually based on how we are, and so often not based on how we are, but actually how they perceive us or how the group. Because I kind of come from a group dynamics perspective. And at that point then we do need to have some sense of clarity, not necessarily about an individual's identity, but about collective protections. You know, so legislation, code of conduct with each other. And I think that sometimes in my.
For me, what I've realised is if I have something unprocessed individually, I bring it into the collective and look for approval. But if, and this is just for me, if I have something that I have a good relationship with within myself, I don't need the collective approval, but I do need to make sure that the collective doesn't harm me because of it, which is a different thing to approval. But a lot of the stuff that I would have wanted kind of some kind of external approval on is usually the stuff I haven't got where I need to get to in myself, where I'm comfortable with me. But the part that we do need to work on collectively is the protections. And I think that's. Sometimes those two things get collapsed. Nobody can protect me from somebody not understanding me. And that's appropriate because I don't understand everyone, but I shouldn't.
And you know, and it's my belief from a human rights perspective, my identity shouldn't mean I am more exposed to, like, whether, you know, whether it's because I'm a trans person, whether it's because I'm a woman, whether it's because I'm a man, whether it's because I'm black, whether it's because. And for anyone watching the video, I'm a white person, I'm not, but I'm just giving an example. Regardless of the part of the identity that is presented from a human rights perspective, I don't believe that should equate to further harm or more harm or higher risk. And that's maybe where I think we sometimes collapse two separate things, which is my relationship with myself, the desire for us to have external approval, which I get, and then the harm part. And I do think we should be resolving the harm part, but I do find that sometimes we go other places with it, which can be unhelpful long term.
You work with organisations, the leadership space, a bit of psychology. It's inclusive culture, if you like, what got you into what you were doing, if you did all your Life or is it something you bumped into?
Yeah, so I haven't, I've been doing it for about 14 years I guess is the starting point. But before I was working in this field I left school at 15 because I was, I am, I was highly dyslexic. I am very dyslexic and school was just torture. And I went on and did an apprenticeship to be a chef and I was an awful manager. And I don't say that lightly. I roared and shouted, I demeaned people I didn't know any better. I was 15, 16, running my first team. Everyone's older than me, you know, but I, I kind of started to.
And I grew up during that whole time volunteering. I've been volunteering since I was very young and being involved in community groups and inequity was always visible to me because of the communities that I was working with and I came from, even where I worked was a really well off place with lots of well off people. But I was also working with people from, you know, underprivileged areas or I myself come from like a working class background. So I was constantly seeing that the same thing didn't result in the same outcome for everyone. And I was always quite fascinated. Went back and forth to India for a few years, kind of exploring spirituality and kind of got into psychology and started doing some courses, side courses to learn about myself. And as I was doing that, I was still in my volunteering work and I was saying, you know, I'm working with leaders who are, who have lots of power and privilege. And then I turn around and I go into a community room where people have very little access to what they need.
And it just felt really contradictory, constantly this tension between this room we could nearly do anything we wanted and this room we've to beg for resourcing or something or just understanding or approval. And so I was kind of always had this tension and I grew up in a home where they wouldn't use this language. But you weren't just obligated to yourself, you're obligated to your collective in some way. So we would have always supported others. Our family would have had people stay, you know, we would have invited people to Christmas dinner. We would have been involved in charity work. Not like sit all singing, all dancing, just it was like a normal part of my family experience that you take care of those near you who need it and they will do the same for you and did do the same for us. And so it was always kind of there and Then I was working with leaders.
And before I ever called it inclusive leadership, I come from a relational and collective leadership perspective because of my background, community work, you know, and I was always using inclusion without that word, because I was helping people understand that the environment you put people in has as much impact on their performance as their capability, and that if that environment is set up correctly. And I knew this because I'd been going to school and suffering and failing, but also I was working part time and thriving and I was running a team at 16 in a really important pastry kitchen in Ireland and I wasn't able to like, barely get through a test. So I knew that the environment mattered and so that was always in my work. And then about five years ago, I made a few calls and I said, if I was going to do a PhD on something and I have access to leaders because that's who I work with, what would I do? And one person said, look into what inclusive leadership could be practically in real organisations. And the other person said, please don't effing look at D. And I generally look at something specific so that I can tell leaders, this is how you engage with it. So they were very clear that whatever I did had to be practical for leaders to connect with. And so I kind of started to sow in my previous experience and the knowledge I had from all the different small courses I had done and my coaching training.
And I started to realise that if I was to understand inclusion scientifically, I could help leaders more effectively. Because leaders often think to be inclusive they have to know everything about everyone. And what I figured out was you don't need to know everything about everyone, you need to know how to work with everyone. That's a different, different beast altogether. And so it kind of evolved in that way. But one thing I will tell you is the minute I use the term inclusive leadership, the people who sought me out changed. And that was interesting because I've always been working with inclusive leadership. As long as I've been doing coaching with leaders, it's been an inclusive model.
But I didn't use the language. And so all types of leaders came to me. Now there's a different set of people who look for me. Recommendations can still be varied, they're very different set. And that's quite interesting. I think that that word inclusion meant that the people who thought I could help them changed and yet I was doing the same work I just used just was more clear on the label.
So people don't contact you as much then.
So what I will say is that the majority of people who contact me contact me because of the word inclusion in the leadership. Inclusive leadership. Previously they contacted me because of leadership. Now anyone who previously worked with me refers people and that's still of the same genre. All identities. A lot of men, a lot of white people, because that's who's in senior leadership in Ireland and the UK and Europe, predominantly numbers wise. But the minute I put the word inclusive leadership, I had more employee resource groups call me, more HR people to do diversity work. It became really clear that inclusive leadership was seen as something for the marginalised to do and not what it actually is, which is for leaders to do.
And it was. It was just really, really interesting. So my referrals still. Still look the same, but if somebody comes and looks for me online, it's. It's a different demographic. It's HR people instead of the CEOs, which is usually who I'd get the direct. The directors on the board or the CEOs. Now HR contact me more.
People from employee resource groups contact me more. And we'll say people with DNI roles contact me more. Previously it was. It was senior leaders contact me directly.
Yeah. On the world right now. This is middle of 2025 and first of July. Well, how did that happen? Kind of got a bad name or it broke a broken reputation. I suppose finding that inclusion is misunderstood yourself. Because what you're talking about there is the environment. And that's what inclusively trying to do, create a better environment, which is Hertzberg's two factor theory, really, isn't it? And time is the detractor, not the motivator. And what leaders often have to focus on is they spend so much time trying to make people feel wonderful, they forget about the basics, logical safety.
And I noticed you had that as part of your bio as well, those important elements so that people feel safe and feel secure and feel valued.
That's all.
Inclusive leadership, is it? Creating environments where people feel safe and valued and could succeed.
Yeah. So I have to say this, and it doesn't go down well, but there's a good reason. DI has got bad reputation and some of those reasons are being leveraged by bad actors. But some of those reasons are reasonable. Sometimes people with lived experiences will come on and speak as experts without any additional work on that area and only share from their point of view. We wouldn't let that happen in any other area. So it's problematic that. That's that before you get hired for a job.
Like, I'm nearly asked what my Sexuality, identity. They nearly say, like, what kind of oppression have you had before? They hire me sometimes and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Your question should be, am I qualified and capable of speaking about this topic in a nuanced and complex way? Because it is complex, but. So there's been a lot of people with lived experiences using that without furthering their understanding of the topic, which means leads to really bad advice, you know, sometimes illegally non compliant, you know, but it also leads to social activism coming into the workplace, but not necessarily understanding organisational change and the psychology of organisations and how they function as systems. So one of the reasons for the bad reputation is DEI has been done really badly by some groups and some people because there's lots of money in it. And if people are asking your identity before understanding your ability to create an impact and whether it's compliant and appropriate, you know, then that's problematic. The other reason that there's been an issue is a lot of people have brought in their political views. I have political views, but when I step into an organisation, my duty is to what's been agreed with the organisation.
But what often happens in DI work is that a lot of us are activists outside of it and we bring it into the corporate setting without appreciating the potential harm that might happen in that room when we do that. So I think there's that. The other thing is people think inclusion is for the other. So when you speak to someone this weekend that says there's an over focus on the minority, and I was saying, actually, if you are dealing with an effective inclusive practitioner, they're not focused on the minority, they're focused on what is required for the whole group, which includes the minority. But I used to push back on this and say, no, no, it's because the minority are being ignored. That's not always the case. Sometimes the minority's actually got the loudest voice in the room now and they might only be representing a small proportion of what's needed. And it's not that it shouldn't be represented, but it's that for people who have no clue about what's going on because they're not relevant in this area, they're so confused, not harmful, not against it, just lost in the conversation.
So to me, I think people think and people think I will take a very particular position because of my work, my research, my identity. But the reality is, for me, inclusion should. Inclusive leadership should help you lead effectively in your organisation and inclusion should be appropriate for the setting. And I use the example all the time of I can't go to the Law Society in the UK and say, I want to be president because I'm not a lawyer. I don't have a right to access that space and then become a lawyer. But I could say they're excluding me, because they are, but they're excluding me with a purpose to the purpose of the organisation. And I think that a lot of inclusion work has forgotten or doesn't overtly explain that inclusion in organisations has to serve the organisation's purpose and serving it is making sure that all people, including marginalised people, are able to come to work and thrive without having to do additional masking or hiding or dealing with jabs or fear during the day. And when we don't have to deal with those, you get equal or better performance.
That's the purpose of inclusion in workplaces, in my mind. And inclusive leadership is getting kind of lumped into being nice. And inclusion isn't always nice. Sometimes you have to make really hard decisions. But I do think that there's not just a misconception in mainstream. I think that in my opinion, there's a misconception in those of us who are activists in society and impacted by the topic, this kind of idea that our desire is the only desire. But I've yet to get a group of people in a room, even from marginalised communities, who all agree on the same outcome. And so that makes workplaces a complex reality to kind of navigate.
And so I do think there's confusion, but I don't think it's from the side we usually blame. I think it's actually maybe a weaponizing of the work or a misunderstanding or like I described earlier, a lack of process in one's own stuff. You know, like I say, I work with a lot of people who are homophobic, and a lot of people in my kind of sphere would say, how can you do that? And I would say, because, first of all, if I don't work with them, who will? And second of all, just because they have belief that I am less human doesn't make me less human. And when I'm working with them, if I make them less human in my interaction, I'm just replicating the very thing I don't want to occur. And so to me, I'm not doing because I'm a good person, I'm doing it because if I'm not capable of working with people who are homophobic, I shouldn't be doing this work in organisations because I'm not able to process my stuff in it. And so I think we collapsing that.
Label, moving someone as homophobic, transphobic or racist or whatever, those are very inflammatory type words. What we're doing is we're basically sort of either shutting down a conversation or dehumanising another view. I'm not saying that having gay actives is right, fair or otherwise. Saying is that person has a perspective based on a lived experience and they have a why, they believe that.
Yes.
Trying to uncover the why. Why do you think that? Do I actually matter? Does it matter to you who I am, what my sexuality is? And as you said earlier, unless I fancy you, it really doesn't make any difference to you, does it? Unless you fancy me and you're confused by me. We get so. I think picking up another thing actually said was get so hung up on this outcome finality, this having to be right, that we forget about how we think something in the first place. And that's part of that humanization of the conversation, isn't it?
Yeah, and I talk about that in my book specifically because I'm. What frustrated me was this idea that to be inclusive we must all agree, but that is anti diversity. Like, like. And this is a bit of a controversial view. I believe people have the right to believe homophobic, racist, you know, sexist, transphobic things. I don't believe they have the right to discriminate. And legally they don't. Right.
And we know that it's not easy to prove these things anyway. But because I believe in human rights, I believe people have the right to believe things. And that means that they have the right to believe things I highly disagree with. Just like I have the right to believe something they highly disagree with. What we don't have a right to do, in my opinion, is to harm each other. And I'm not talking about. A lot of people say that. I find that harmful because I disagree with you or I feel offended.
I'm talking about. Harm is not disliking what people say. You know, harm is actually that it's something negative happens to a person, you know, usually externally. But I also think that one of the issues we have around this idea of inclusion right now is that we. What we really mean is I want to include the people I like and agree with. Because when I say. When people say bring your authentic self to work, I say, first of all, legally that's problematic. People can win cases against anything if you say that.
But secondly, we're not generally in the inclusion space, meaning the homophobic, racist, sexist transphobes. We don't want them to bring their whole authentic self to work. Right.
So we want to deplatform them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I do believe, and it's a bit of a kind of spiritual belief, but I really do believe that if anyone holds hate towards someone else about a part of their identity, it's because they couldn't possibly process that about themselves. So they hold hate within themselves, for themselves. I don't need to get into that with them because I don't hold that hate. So like, I don't want to get into it, but I do think that we get caught up in trying to control what people think. And that I have a problem with because that's from a human rights perspective, that's not okay. But we do in the workplace have discrimination legislation and treating people less favourably based on one of the protected characteristics is discrimination. Thinking something differently isn't, unfortunately, and potentially saying something differently isn't.
It's a grey area depending on what they say and how they say it and the general consensus on it. But we do have a bit of this righteous moral ground stuff that I. That is a form of oppressive power that I have an issue with personally using. I'm like being right and being better than is just a way of oppressing and dehumanising another person. And I don't think that's very inclusive.
Because being right is a perspective, it's not an absolute. And we all have. We all believe we're right and we all believe we have the outcome. It's a human bias. Ego is extreme and that's how we believe. And which is why affinity groups are powerful because we believe people who look like us and feel like us, think like us, are more right than people who don't. And yeah, our war start and yeah, I'd say that you got no idea what's going on in the Middle East. I know that people are dying, children are dying.
I know that people are starving. I know that there's poverty and famine and things going on and people are being bombed at their homes. I don't know who's right at this point. I don't really care who's right. I just want people to stop dying and people to find a way through it. So yeah, people are so invested in their own truth. I'll put that down. I mean, we see the example of the England, Ireland conflicts in the past never solved the problems of what was going on between England and Ireland, of the United Kingdom and Ireland by continuing to fight and blow each other up, we can only Solve it by saying I'm.
That we want to be here now how can we get to here? I find in my own personal relationships. What about being sorry? Because you can be sorry once, but ask me to keep being sorry because I'm sorry makes you feel better for me to keep apologising, it doesn't help, it just makes you feel. Yeah, it becomes an uncompromising situation. So I think what we need to try and do is where do we want to be tomorrow? That's where we want to go. Acknowledge the past is it. Hold prisoners of that? And how do we find the way forward? And I think inclusion space is very similar. We end up excluding rather than leaving people behind through the fear of getting it wrong, through the fear of language, through policing them. Creating buzzwords or buzz phrases or scenarios that go against social constructs that we're all kind of familiar with.
Evolution's good forcing people say at the beginning about pronouns, forcing people to take their pronouns every time they interact with each other. Not societal's way of communicating.
And the thing is, it is oppressive to do that. So I'm always thinking about how the power is being used. And so if, like your example is sorry, if I require someone to be sorry forever, I'm requiring to have power over them forever. Right. Which is just like a deflection of the power. It's a reversal. If I'm telling people what they can and can't say, I'm just trying to dominate them with my righteousness. And to me, it's really important that we know what we're doing with power in these kind of conversations because that changes the landscape of what we're doing.
Discussing for me, I think, and it's very hard to do because sometimes I hear someone say something and I think, you're some idiot. Right? And then I've got to catch myself and I've got to say, their worldview brought them there. Your worldview brought you here. Why is it easier for you to think they're in Egypt than it is to actually be curious about it? And then I have to walk myself into it and be like, where is that coming from? Tell me more about that. And a lot of people would say you're just giving people space to air their frustrations. And I'm saying, no, I'm trying to understand why someone can have such a different worldview to me. And I think it goes on to the same situation in Gaza. I do not.
And maybe this is from being an Irish person and understanding the complexities of the North I do not understand the complexities of that situation in the way that people living it do. I couldn't. Couldn't even potentially. But what I do understand is that one group is resourced with more power than another group, that I have an issue with the history. I don't know enough. But what I do know is that when one group has power over another group through resourcing or whatever they have, that's problematic. And then when that results in life being ended, killing. I don't care who's right or wrong.
You can argue about right and wrong, but what our role as human beings, in my opinion, is to stop harm as soon as we are aware of it. And unfortunately, I don't think we're doing that in that situation. And there is an imbalance in power and resourcing and that. That will be a problem for me, whether I'm in a boardroom and there's an imbalance of power and resourcing or we're talking about a global stage. Because it's in those moments where, you know, that human rights perspective kick in. But it's also in those moments where we say, actually, you know, the end justifies the means. No, no, it doesn't. In my opinion, it doesn't.
You know, the loss of life, of any life for any reason should be a problem, in my opinion. And so I think, like, that, you know, at the hands of other human beings at least, should be a problem. So I think we get so caught up in a political stance that we actually forget the humans and maybe thinking about what stance is required for human harm to be reduced or to be intervened with or to be stopped. And then there's lots of. Lots of media being released. Like, if you see the difference in what's being released on the UK media and the Irish media, we'll say around Gaza. It's really interesting that we're so close and so far the media's wildly different that we're seeing. We're so close and so far it's.
Also very vastly different. If you're over the Atlantic and in the US looking at the media as well.
Yeah, And I was in the US for a month. It was really strange because in Ireland there's a big pro Palestinian position. Just naturally, we've been protesting before it became media news. Like, we've been having weekly protest years. Like, it's not a new thing here. And there's this kind of sentiment. When I went there, it was clearly Israeli and I was like, oh, that's a really big culture. Shock.
I've walked from one room where there's a clear position in one direction into another room where. Where what's appropriate to openly talk about is an Israeli view, whereas in Ireland, generally speaking, the Palestinian view is what's been appropriate to talk about. And I was like, all I've done is be in a different country and the rules are wildly different about what's acceptable, but so is the information that they're getting. That was what I was really shocked by the difference in the information.
It's really difficult to try and work out what the truth is or these perspectives are, and trying to marry them up other than the dying and that's gotta stop. That's kind of the fundamental what we're trying to get to as well.
Yeah, and I think that's the. And maybe it's, you know, somebody reported recently that the peace process, the peace process in Northern Ireland is one of the most successful in the world today. And like, we're holding it tightly. It's really important. It continues for lots of reasons, but we also know that there's still activity. We still have young people being groomed on both sides. And like, we know that there's still. There's still a ready to go if we don't hold it tightly and carry.
Yeah, it's fragile, but it's still. It's still quite powerful. And I suppose when you see a process like that and you realise the safety that it offers the human beings on both sides, you know that actually continuing to fight is not the solution. It doesn't stop. The only two ways it stops is one obliterates the other and that's terrible for everybody. We should all be worried about any group of people being killed simply because of where they live. Or the other option is they agree peace in some kind of process. They're usually the only two outcomes that kind of occur in either some kind of agreement or we keep going till everyone's killed.
And like the. Everyone killed is never a good outcome, in my opinion. No matter what side of the fence you're on, on anything. Everyone killed is. It's, you know, families losing loved ones is not a good outcome for anyone, you know.
Yeah, we've gone into the worldplitted. Bringing us back to the boardroom. We get our leaders. I mean, the conversation we've just had here, it's difficult to have in a workplace because, you know, we're taught don't talk about politics, don't talk about religion, don't talk about money. Yet we want people to bring Their whole self to work. How can we have cultures and environments where people can eat within boundaries, yet not feel that? You know, as I think you said right at the beginning, I can put bit of me into the middle here. And that's the bit of me that I'm happy to share, happy to talk about. How can we get people to bring that part of themselves into the middle and be able to have conversations and explore? I don't know.
I don't know. Because people want to be right, don't they? They want to have this authoritarian view of the world.
Yeah. It's interesting because what I'm finding is leaders are less inclined to be right now and more scared of being wrong, which is a slightly different motivation. The first thing I want to say is I don't believe we should bring our whole selves to work. The reason that that's become normed is because people who are marginalised were hiding parts of themselves and we wanted them not to worry about that, that they could bring that part of themselves to work. And I think that's appropriate. But when we say bring your whole self to work, we're giving mixed messages because again, we're not talking about the racist homophobe. We don't want them to bring that to work. Actually keep that at home for your bodies.
That's not the space we want at work. And legally, it's not a clever thing to bring into work. But what we do want is that people don't have to hide who they are. I think that's, you know, and the original reason for this was because people were having to pretend they were something they weren't, to be safe at work. But that's not everyone, not every part, not everyone needs to bring their whole selves to work. We need to bring our appropriate self to work. So the parts of my identity that are important to me, that's what I bring to work. And I do my job and I use that myself as an instrument of my role.
And I do my best to thrive at work, but I don't bring my whole self. I don't karaoke sing at work because people would leave, there'd be complaints to hr. You know, I don't wear my fluffy pyjamas to a keynote because it's not agreed as appropriate. You know, so there's a piece around that. But what I would say about leaders is what I tend to do with clients is when I work with a leadership team who are going through something around this area, I ask to meet them individually. That's the first thing I do and I say in this meeting, you can say anything and ask anything and it will not be recorded or noted as long as you're bringing good intent, like you're not doing it as a bad actor. You're coming in, you're saying, I don't know why we use this word. You know, is it okay to say this? I'm so confused about that.
You know, you know, do I have to change my beliefs in order to lead here? And I don't believe people should have to change their beliefs. It's interesting because we think leaders should believe what's right to lead. Well actually leaders jobs in workplaces is to equip you with the ability to do your job well and bring you in a direction that's their, their role. And so I often say if we can get leaders into private one on ones and let them bring up their fears and concerns, I get through way more. I do say to HR, teams don't do it in a group because you have policies, procedures and codes of conduct. And the minute you do it in a group, I have to enact them. You've to enact them. If I do it in a confidential coaching setting, nothing gets enacted.
They are absolutely protected in this conversation. Then I will help them before we go into a group setting with find the boundaries of the difference between what they need to say to help others do well at work. Which is the point of anything a leader says should be about helping their teams right their, their organisation move forward. It's not about their political beliefs. So it shouldn't matter what they believe as long as they are equipping their people with the knowledge, information and support required to do their jobs. And then I also think we need to be careful about cancel culture because I talk to a lot of leaders who aren't actually committed to being right. They're actually more fearful of being wrong, which is a different motivation. They're afraid of saying the wrong thing and being cancelled.
So now they're not saying anything or they're saying Pittsburgh again, isn't it?
The environment is down.
Yeah, yeah. So I talk to leaders about whatever you say in the workplace should be focused on helping people do their task and feeling safe to do their task. If everything you say connects to those two things, your personal beliefs are not that important. And if somebody says to you that's racist, that's homophobic, that's something you don't say. No, it's not. You say how so let them explain it to you. And you say Let me reflect on that and come back to you. I need some time to process it, because you're a human being who needs to make sense of things.
And not everything that is labelled as homophobic or racist or transphobic is those things. It's just somebody's understanding of what you've said. So I had someone tell me that I didn't, because I don't start any talk with my identity because it's not relevant, right? And then it does become relevant throughout the talk, and that's fine. But I said something about the fact that some people in the LGBTQ community hate the word queer, and other people, like, you know, feel the word queer is very important. That's all I said. And I had someone say, excuse me, that's highly offensive. You shouldn't be using that language, blah, blah. I said, well, I am queer, and I have no issue not using that language for someone else, but I am queer.
I don't see the world in a heteronormative way. I don't engage with it in a linear way or a kind of binary way. And so that they're like, oh, okay, you're allowed to say it. I was like, no, you were asserting a decision because you made a judgement of me as a straight white woman without taking into account my identity, because I didn't lead with it. You made judgments about me and then decided that my position must be wrong. But the minute I explained that my position is based on my identity, that was right. And that's an example of where we kind of make assumptions. Originally, they were suggesting I was being homophobic by saying that.
And then when I explained that's how I identify. I wasn't homophobic anyway anymore. But the truth was, it was never homophobic in the first place. I was simply stating a fact. Some people in that population like that word for lots of reasons, and some people don't. That is fact. That's not political position I hold, it's fact. You ask some people, they say, I like it.
Other people say they don't like it. But that person decided to turn that factual statement into a meaning about me. That wasn't accurate. But that happens all the time, because we get stuck in our own worldview. And when we listen to people speak, we don't always listen to them. We listen to them mostly through our idea of what's right and wrong and then project it onto them. And so leaders do need the chance to process things because they will find out that sometimes what they've said is homophobic, transphobic racist, sexist. And sometimes they'll find that the person misunderstood what they actually said, not what they meant, what they actually said.
They're two different things. Because sometimes people say, that's not what I meant. I'm like, there's a difference between what you meant, what you actually said. Sometimes what you actually said is misunderstood. That's different. Like my factual example to you meant something else, but you said something. And that's a sign that you've been brought up in a society that has homophobia, transphobia, racism weaved into it. And so we're all going to hold parts of that and we will make mistakes.
Back to my desert island thing, where who am I on a desert island with nobody else there? And within my affinity group, within my echo chamber, I homophobic within that group. And that the group might. It might be this Tanner conversation people are having, the banter, the conversations, the disagreement they have. It's a relative contextual position. You introduce somebody into that group that is not part of the. In group, they. They have a different perspective. Therefore, relatively speaking, you are homophobic compared with this person.
Your views aren't homophobic by general societal standards. But within your echo chamber there continues quite normal, rational conversations of disagreement or contention. Again, we've got to try and recognise within our leaders and context as well, calling somebody love or honey or duck or something or mate is relative because in Yorkshire or some parts of the uk, some people call everybody have a love mate. But it's. It's not meant to be offensive, it's not meant to be this. It's just a perspective. And I think what we're talking about here, with inclusive leadership, trying to get leaders to have their view, but recognise their view is not the only view. And they're not.
They don't have a right to be absolute and right about it. So they can. They can have these views which are maybe not in line with mine. I can have a conversation, say I have a different view, you have a different view. Can we still talk about it without getting upset, without defensive, and we both leave sharing a bit of each other's perspectives without necessarily having to change our view to still be. I think that's the challenge, is to be able to, as I say, hold multiple perspectives and paradoxes in your head at the same time, be able to rationalise those out and come up with a context you're happy to exist within. That sounded quite complicated. You know what I mean by that?
Yeah. No, I think that's again, the power piece. Right. If I'm sharing my views and they have to be better than yours. That's oppressive. Right now, there's nothing wrong with me holding my views and you holding yours. But if I'm unsettled by the fact you are not moved by mine and wildly agreeing, then we're in a power struggle. We're not actually in an inclusive.
And your point about the in group and the out group is most important. The most exclusion, and I say this wholeheartedly, that I've ever experienced, is within the LGBTQ population. That is the place that I have felt the most excluded. Never lesbian enough. Never. I'm not a lesbian. Never this enough, never that enough. You know, who CIS presenting to be, you know, non bi.
Like just everything is never enough. And the minute I hear that, I know we're in an oppressive binary or set of rules. I am not interested in that. I'm interested in whoever you are and I am being valid in that moment. We don't have to agree or understand each other. But I don't treat you as less than simply because I don't understand and you don't get to treat me as less than. And I think in the workplace there are some conversations we shouldn't have. You know, I don't think I should go to work and process all my feelings about something.
I go to my therapist, I go to community groups, I do my thing. I think at work the conversations should always be connected to what helps this environment be co created as a space that I can feel safe in so I can do my job well. And everything we talk about should be connected to those two things. Otherwise we stray into like mission creep and that become. That's where I think we have, like, the UK has a lot of issues because of mission creep right now in workplaces and I work in workplace in the uk. We're not finding that same mission creep in other countries because we're not finding that same tension in other countries, especially around gender right now as we are in the uk. The UK is holding attention around that. That is not being held quite the same way unless you go to very specific views in the us.
The rest of the world is holding a little bit in different ways, different nuances about it. But the uk, because of mission creep in workplaces, that's my belief. It has got into some really unhelpful tensions, in my opinion, that is causing like, locks in this work.
There's a very polarised and absolutist on both sides and there's work to be done to try and bring people around the table, and that's the challenge at the moment, is to release these prisons of beliefs and look to try and create workplaces where people can thrive. And that's all people, not just people that you like. And that's the hard thing.
If it was just people that we like, we don't need inclusion because they'll go into our in group. Inclusion is about engaging with the out group, and that's really challenging. If it's just people you like, that's not inclusion. Work your grand belt away, you're fine. Inclusion work involves the out group.
I would frame that is without using tolerance, because tolerance is not actually so tolerance is the, the worst case. It's putting up with people. So we're trying to find that way of accepting and embracing. Skipping over tolerance.
Yeah. And I think we might have to start with tolerance sometimes because how stuck we are with our own beliefs. Like, I know I have to tolerate others when I hold something very strongly, but then if I can tolerate them, I use this thing called compassionate accountability. So I think accountability to myself is really important with some compassion, but I think the same for others. If I am able to, in the workplace, hold accountability as something that we offer each other because we're obligated to, but with compassion, then I can say you got to your beliefs the same way I got to mine, even if they're oppositional. Now, what do we need to do to share space in a way that is not just not harmful, that's the starting point, but actually might be enhancing. And I, I, I've seen it, so I know it's possible. But when we have big, strong political polarizations, I think it's in people's interest not to find shared spaces, because then they don't write.
There'S profit in that.
There's massive profit.
Oh, and face saving and status and become invested in it. And there's a momentum bias. You know, people are, is what we're doing. And I'm not going to listen because I'm invested in this future and I'm invested in being right. That's going on on both sides and all sides. There's more than two sides.
Yeah, no, there's. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's an interesting one when we look at the LGBTQ kind of population, because in a funny way, they've moved from one set of rights to arguing for another set of rights. But what's really fascinating to me, that other set of rights was always in the picture. We just didn't fight for them. So there's been this really interesting thing where even within the LGBTQ population, there's been a hierarchy of whose rights are important. And if we look at the history of it, we can see that everybody who's in that community, in that population group that we've lumped together, have always been in that population and have always been active. And we can see it historically, but we pretended it was one thing and another thing, and we decided what was prioritised that shows the oppression within our own population.
And now it's like, oh, now, now, these other things. These other things were always there. We just didn't prioritise them because we, again, used a hierarchy set of decisions about what was priority and in a.
Lot assumed this word community.
That's why I reject the word community.
Yeah. Because it. Communities. We have communities within communities within communities. The intersectional approach, because we have in common is largely, we're not straight or we're not cisgender. Isn't a binding concept by being not something. Because we're so queer, we're so different, so intersectional in our backgrounds, our thinking, our gender, whatever it may be, that we're not coming together with a common causal mission. We're.
We're trying to bunch people together who have different motivations and.
Yeah, and that's why I use the word population, because we do fall under a population, which is that the norm in at least Western community? And I have to say this because we talk about it like it's global. It's Western. It's not global. India just confirmed that trans women are women legally under their definition. We're talking about Western cultures here. Western cultures have normed a particular view of validity. The working male and female married children, usually, you know, a house and a dot. Like, there's a norm way.
And so when I say population, all of the. Those letters represent parts of general society that be neglected by that norm. And so, for me, it just makes sense to say population, because we're talking about the oppression that has occurred to that population by just not being seen as norm.
People, population, or communities with an IES on the Internet.
I like that idea. Yeah. Yeah. I might. I might look into that a bit more. It's a good one, Joanne.
I. I didn't invent it. Someone else told me that, and I thought, right, because we're not a homogenous group where people who are queer who happen to press in a similar way. That's all it is.
Well, by the same set of rules, of normative. Like, it's the oppression, we Share as opposed to the desired outcome. And which makes it really problematic other.
Protected characteristics are also oppressed by societal norms. And actually that's where we come together as minorities or voiceless or whatever marginalised people is because we share a common oppression by the majority norm. With Mfine, we're being divided and conquered by competing with ourselves for wanting to escape our oppression in the way we want to escape it. And then we find these beliefs and our entities conflict with each other, not in the majority. Still.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's. It's from a sociological point of view, it's fascinating. From a lived experience, it's a frustrating. That's the best way.
Completely. Yeah, yeah. I mean, come to Ireland and. And a day with you and drink lots of coffee or something. We could talk all day. We could talk all day. And we have been talking for. Best part of.
For an hour and a half plus. Yeah, wonderful. How could people get hold of you?
So my silewalsh.com or my company is LS Advantage, so there's a website for that and my book, Inclusive Leadership Navigating Organisational Complexity. I'm on Instagram and LinkedIn. LinkedIn is more like professional thought and Instagram is more in between frustrations and random ideas.
Put links to all of that in the show notes. So presumably people reach out to you, drop you a message and say, hi.
That would be brilliant.
And they can find out about you. So.
And also give me their point of view. Like, it would be lovely to hear from people that are going, sheila, I don't think that's great because of X, Y and Z, because then it helps me expand my understanding and so I welcome different perspectives from what I've said as well, because I love that kind of emergent learning that we do together.
I wholeheartedly agree. If you're listening to this right now and you don't agree, tell us, tell me, tell Sheila. If you do agree, share it with someone who won't agree and then let them tell you their opinion or our opinion. But we grow by listening and communicating and understanding and lots of why questions. And it sounds like we both share the same thing, that we want to understand why someone thinks something, have conversations. We could be friends, even if we have different perspectives.
Yeah, Yeah, I think that's lovely, Joanne. Thank you.
As we bring this conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your ear and heart to the cause of inclusion. Today's discussion struck a chord. Consider subscribing to Inclusion Bites and become part of our ever growing community, driving real change. Share this journey with friends, family and colleagues. Let's amplify the voices that matter.
Got thoughts, storeys or a vision to share?
I'm all ears. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk and let's make your voice heard. Until next time, this is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return with more enriching narratives that challenge, inspire and unite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world one episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.
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Episode Category
Primary Category: Cultural Diversity
Secondary Category: Queer Voices
🔖 Titles
Navigating Beyond Performative Inclusion: Real Challenges and Complexities of Diverse Organisational Cultures
How Inclusive Leadership Goes Further Than Performative Actions in Diverse Workplaces
Meeting in the Middle: Bridging Identity and Organisational Inclusion
Why Creating Safety Matters More Than Surface-Level Inclusion Initiatives
The Realities of Inclusive Leadership: Addressing Organisational Harm and Human Rights
Moving Past Tolerance: True Acceptance and Psychological Safety in Organisations
Addressing Identity, Power, and Belonging in Inclusive Environments
Authenticity Versus Appropriateness: Bringing Your True Self to Work Responsibly
Power, Politics, and Psychological Safety: Unpacking the Complex World of Organisational Inclusion
Inclusion for All: Embracing Opposition, Humanity, and Constructive Dialogue
A Subtitle - A Single Sentence describing this episode
Sile Walsh explores the complexities of authentic inclusion, the interplay between lived experience and organisational culture, and how compassionate leadership can bridge divides without sacrificing psychological safety or succumbing to performative gestures.
Episode Tags
Inclusive Leadership, Psychological Safety, Organisational Culture, Lived Experience, Cultural Identity, Human Rights, Workplace Inclusion, Diversity Challenges, Navigating Difference, Authentic Conversations
Episode Summary with Intro, Key Points and a Takeaway
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood is joined by Sile Walsh to explore what lies beyond mere performative inclusion in workplace culture. Their conversation traverses psychological safety, organisational power dynamics, and the nuances of identity and belonging. Sile bridges lived experience with leadership insight, laying bare the tensions between conforming to cultural expectations and remaining authentic at work. Joanne shares candid reflections on multiculturalism and its impact on identity formation, prompting Sile to examine how formative experiences in Ireland and the UK have shaped their perspectives on inclusion. The episode dives deep into the complexity of cultural adaptation, the relativity of gender identity, and the importance of creating environments where all individuals—regardless of their background—can thrive.
Sile Walsh is an award-winning coach, author, and leadership specialist from Dublin, with a reputation for embedding equity and psychological safety into global leadership and organisational practice. Volunteering from an early age and working with marginalised communities have given Sile a unique lens on the inequities that shape workplaces and society. Their work draws on lived experience, academic study, and community engagement, encouraging leaders to move from simply “being nice” to taking practical action. Sile runs LS Advantage and has authored "Inclusive Leadership: Navigating Organisational Complexity", equipping organisations with tools for genuinely systemic inclusion. Their approach prioritises meeting people where they are, fostering compassionate accountability, and addressing collective harm rather than seeking superficial approval.
Together, Joanne and Sile scrutinise the pitfalls of performative inclusivity, challenge the misconceptions around “bringing your whole self to work”, and unpack the unintended oppression within affinity groups. They dissect the dangers of power struggles, the perils of “cancel culture”, and the necessity of allowing room for diverse—even oppositional—beliefs, provided they do not result in harm. The episode unearths how polarisation and moral superiority can be antithetical to true inclusion, questioning whether workplace environments actually encourage authentic dialogue or simply reinforce groupthink.
A key takeaway from this episode is the distinction between genuine inclusion and shallow performance. Listeners are invited to reconsider organisational norms, engage curiously with opposing perspectives, and advocate for environments that value psychological safety above binary labels. Joanne and Sile encourage ongoing dialogue, urging listeners to share their stories and challenge their own assumptions—to help create workplaces where everyone is not only welcomed, but empowered to thrive.
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 The speaker, Sheila Walsh, based in Dublin, explains her name's pronunciation and history, noting variations like "Sile" or mistakenly "silly" in England, and mentions her Irish name, Sheila Branock.
07:51 Cultural identity is influenced by upbringing in different cultures, affecting accents and the sense of "home," even within families of the same heritage.
12:26 Struggles with identity, acceptance, and respect; gender only feels relevant when others assess interactions, with pronouns serving as a tool for respect.
20:31 Identity should not determine exposure to harm; focus on addressing harm, not seeking external approval.
23:51 The author emphasises the importance of inclusive leadership, rooted in their relational and collective leadership experience, focusing on creating environments that foster performance. Inspired by personal struggles and successes, they explored practical ways to implement inclusive leadership in organisations through research and past knowledge.
28:43 DEI struggles due to focus on identity over expertise, misuse of lived experiences, poor understanding of organisational systems, and the injection of personal politics over agreed objectives.
32:29 Misunderstanding and lack of personal processing fuels conflict; engaging with opposing views is crucial to avoid perpetuating dehumanisation.
38:05 Focus on moving forward, acknowledging the past without being trapped by it, and fostering inclusion by reducing fear and judgement.
46:40 Balancing authenticity at work is crucial, but professionalism matters. Leaders benefit from safe, judgement-free discussions to explore questions and uncertainties with good intent.
48:01 Leaders should prioritise supporting their teams over personal beliefs, focus on progress, and avoid fear of cancel culture hindering their effectiveness.
57:07 Promote tolerance, compassionate accountability, and shared understanding to bridge opposing beliefs and create collaborative spaces.
58:31 LGBTQ rights evolved from prioritising some issues over others, revealing internal hierarchies and historical oppression within the community.
01:03:48 Thank you for supporting inclusion. Subscribe to Inclusion Bites and share to drive meaningful change.
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 "Sheila Walsh Name Story"
07:51 Mixed Cultural Identity Challenges
12:26 Navigating Identity and Respect
20:31 "Equality and Harm in Identity"
23:51 Practical Inclusive Leadership Insights
28:43 "DEI Missteps in Organisations"
32:29 Navigating Conflict with Compassion
38:05 Moving Forward, Not Staying Sorry
46:40 Authenticity and Leadership Boundaries
48:01 Leadership, Communication, and Cancel Culture
57:07 Compassionate Accountability in Polarisation
58:31 LGBTQ Rights and Internal Hierarchies
01:03:48 "Amplify Inclusion Together"
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🎙️ 𝗧𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗪𝗲𝗲𝗸 𝗼𝗻 𝗜𝗻𝗰𝗹𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝗕𝗶𝘁𝗲𝘀: 𝗕𝗲𝘆𝗼𝗻𝗱 𝗣𝗲𝗿𝗳𝗼𝗿𝗺𝗮𝘁𝗶𝘃𝗲 𝗜𝗻𝗰𝗹𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗼𝗻 🎙️
💬 “Can inclusion ever be more than a buzzword in your workplace?” Grab fresh insights in just 60 seconds! 💬
This week, I’m joined by the extraordinary Sile Walsh, an award-winning coach, author, and leadership specialist—known for bridging lived experience with leadership insight to drive real, systemic inclusion.
Together, we get stuck into:
🔑 Translation vs. Fitting In – How adjusting our identities doesn’t have to mean abandoning authenticity.
🔑 Why Inclusion Gets a Bad Name – Spotting the difference between genuine inclusion and performative gestures, and what organisations often get wrong.
🔑 Leading With Psychological Safety – Simple, practical steps any leader can take to create cultures where everyone, not just a chosen few, can thrive.
Why Listen? "Inclusion is about understanding, and this episode is packed with insights to help you create more #PositivePeopleExperiences."
As host of Inclusion Bites, I drop episodes weekly to challenge, inspire, and expand your view of belonging at work—this short audiogram is just a taster of the rich conversation inside.
What’s your take? 💭 Pop a thought below 👇 or tell us where you see performative inclusion in your own organisation—let’s spark an honest debate!
🎧 Listen to the full episode: https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen
#PositivePeopleExperiences #SmileEngageEducate #InclusionBites #Podcasts #Shorts #SystemicInclusion #PsychologicalSafety #AuthenticLeadership #WorkplaceCulture #DEIChallenge
Don’t forget to like, comment, and tag someone who needs a better bite of inclusion in their week!
with SEE Change Happen
TikTok/Reels/Shorts Video Summary
Focus Keyword: Culture Change
Title: Why Culture Change Drives Positive People Experiences | #InclusionBitesPodcast
Tags: culture change, positive people experiences, inclusion, workplace culture, psychological safety, diversity, belonging, equity, authentic leadership, inclusive leadership, Sile Walsh, Joanne Lockwood, workplace transformation, organisational culture, change management, DEI, inclusion podcast, leadership insights, challenging the status quo, disruption, societal transformation, empowerment, creating safe spaces, fostering inclusion, SEE Change Happen
Killer Quote: "Inclusion is about engaging with the out group—it’s easy to like people you agree with, the challenge is to create an environment where everyone can thrive, not just the ones you like." – Sile Walsh
Hashtags: #CultureChange, #PositivePeopleExperiences, #InclusionBitesPodcast, #SEEChangeHappen, #PsychologicalSafety, #InclusiveLeadership, #WorkplaceTransformation, #EquityMatters, #Belonging, #AuthenticLeadership, #ChallengingTheStatusQuo, #LeadershipInsights, #DEI, #InclusionChampion, #ChangeMaker, #SafeSpaces, #FosteringInclusion, #SocietalTransformation, #Empowerment, #CreatingImpact
Description:
Curious about how true culture change ignites Positive People Experiences? Tune in as I delve into the transformative power of inclusion with Sile Walsh, award-winning coach and leadership specialist. This episode unmasks performative inclusion and reveals what it takes to foster cultures rooted in psychological safety—where every voice truly matters. Learn why meeting people in the middle creates authentic change, and how embracing discomfort leads to growth. If you're craving a call to action and practical strategies for developing inclusive leadership, this bite-sized insight is unmissable. Listen for guidance on navigating organisational complexity and join the movement to disrupt norms for real, lasting culture change.
Ready for more? Hit like, subscribe to the channel, and discover resources and full episodes to empower your inclusion journey!
Outro:
Thank you, the listener, for tuning in! If you enjoyed this conversation, please like and subscribe to the channel for more bold discussions about Culture Change and Positive People Experiences. Find more at SEE Change Happen: https://seechangehappen.co.uk and catch the full episode on The Inclusion Bites Podcast: https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen.
Stay curious, stay kind, and stay inclusive - Joanne Lockwood
ℹ️ Introduction
On this episode of Inclusion Bites, host Joanne Lockwood welcomes the award-winning coach, author, and leadership specialist Sile Walsh to examine what it truly means to move “Beyond Performative Inclusion.” Together, they embark on a candid and thought-provoking dialogue about identity, belonging, and the complex realities of creating organisational cultures rooted in genuine psychological safety. From discussions about the nuances of names and cultural heritage, to reflections on lived experience, labels, and the risks of surface-level diversity efforts, this episode dives deep into the heart of inclusion—challenging listeners to confront biases, embrace discomfort, and explore how leaders can drive meaningful, systemic change. Whether you’re an HR trailblazer or simply someone seeking richer, more authentic conversations, today’s episode promises fresh perspectives, practical insights, and honest reflections on building environments where everyone can thrive.
💬 Keywords
inclusive leadership, psychological safety, organisational culture, performative inclusion, lived experience, systemic inclusion, equity in the workplace, cultural identity, intersectionality, diversity and inclusion, belonging, marginalisation, protected characteristics, human rights, identity politics, affinity groups, discrimination legislation, workplace activism, group dynamics, cancel culture, authenticity at work, relative identity, microaggressions, cross-cultural experiences, gender agnosticism, LGBTQ population, bias in organisations, employee resource groups, mission creep, collective accountability, oppressive power structures
About this Episode
About The Episode:
In this eye-opening discussion, Sile Walsh joins Inclusion Bites to explore what it truly means to move beyond performative gestures and embed genuine inclusion within leadership and organisational cultures. Drawing on their unique expertise as an award-winning coach and specialist in equity and psychological safety, Sile unpacks the complexities and misconceptions that often derail meaningful progress. Listeners will walk away with deeper understanding and tangible strategies for fostering environments where every individual is able to participate, thrive, and contribute authentically.
Today, we'll cover:
The distinction between translation of identity and the expectation of assimilation in multicultural and organisational contexts.
Navigating challenges of authentic self-expression, including gender, names, and cultural identity, within diverse environments.
Why psychological safety and equity are foundational to sustainable inclusion and effective leadership.
Practical reasons for the backlash against DEI initiatives and how to address both external criticism and internal mission drift.
The crucial role of compassionate accountability in reconciling divergent worldviews while maintaining dignity and respect in the workplace.
Strategies to encourage open, honest conversations that enable learning while setting boundaries for appropriate workplace behaviour.
The importance of collective, rather than individual, protections and how organisations can move from tolerance to true acceptance.
💡 Speaker bios
Joanne Lockwood is a passionate advocate for inclusion and belonging, dedicated to sparking meaningful change within society. As the host of Inclusion Bites, she invites listeners to join her on a journey into the heart of societal transformation, where bold conversations and resonant storeys challenge the status quo. Joanne believes that everyone not only belongs, but deserves to thrive, and she encourages all to connect, reflect, and inspire action. Whether sharing insights over a morning coffee or winding down after a busy day, Joanne fosters a welcoming space where every voice matters and everyone can be part of the ongoing conversation for a better world.
❇️ Key topics and bullets
Certainly! Here is a comprehensive sequence of primary topics covered in the transcript of the Inclusion Bites Podcast episode "Beyond Performative Inclusion", complete with key sub-topics beneath each main section:
1. Podcast Introduction and Framing of Inclusion
Welcome and setting the podcast’s ethos of bold, change-driving conversations
Introduction to Joanne Lockwood as host and her guest, Sile Walsh
Call to audience engagement and participation
2. Guest Introduction: Sile Walsh – Identity, Background, and Superpower
Sile Walsh’s professional background: award-winning coach, author, and leadership specialist
Discussion of Sile’s Irish heritage: pronunciation and meaning of her name
Navigating names, identity, and adaptation to other cultures
The significance of names to personal and cultural identity
3. Cultural Identity and Adaptation
Experiencing cultural "in-betweenness": Irish in England and vice versa
The impact of lived experience on cultural identity
Navigating mixed and multicultural backgrounds
Anecdotes on cultural food differences and their social implications
4. Gender, Sexuality, and Self-Concept
Sile’s agnostic view on gender and sexuality
How gender and sexuality are contextually relevant—individual identity vs social perception
The role of pronouns and social categorisation
Fluidity and relativity of identity markers (gender, sexuality, names) depending on context
5. On Belonging and Exclusion
Stories of never feeling “enough” within different cultural settings
Relativity of identity depending on environment and others’ perceptions
Discussion of inclusion and exclusion, including within one’s own affinity groups
Handling assumptions about heritage and nationality
6. Formative Experiences and Inclusive Leadership
Sile’s journey to inclusive leadership via community work and exposure to inequity
Early work experiences: leaving school, apprenticeship, and management style evolution
Tension between privilege in leadership and resource deprivation in the community
Practical and relational underpinnings of inclusive leadership
7. Inclusive Leadership—Definition and Practice
Difference between lived experience and expertise in inclusion work
The evolution from generic leadership coaching to labelled “inclusive leadership”
The practical purpose of inclusion in organisational settings: serving the business and enabling all individuals to thrive
8. DEI (Diversity, Equity & Inclusion) – Bad Reputation, Problems, and Solutions
Critique of how DEI is often performed poorly: lived experience as “expertise,” performative activism, and lack of systemic understanding
The harmful conflation of personal politics and pragmatic organisational change
The misconception that inclusion work is solely for minorities, not for everyone
Issues with “bring your whole self to work” and the realities/legalities of inclusion in the workplace
9. Human Rights, Free Expression, and Organisational Boundaries
Distinguishing harmful belief from harmful action (discrimination)
The right to personal belief vs the prohibition of discrimination in law and organisational policy
Call for nuanced, rights-based approaches to navigating complex interpersonal and organisational issues
10. Handling Disagreement and Polarisation
The need for dialogue across difference as essential to inclusion
The pitfalls of moral righteousness, cancel culture, and absolutism
Encouraging curiosity rather than judgement in challenging conversations
Compassionate accountability and the difference between being right versus being effective and inclusive
11. Practical Strategies for Leaders and Organisations
The value of confidential one-to-ones for leaders to engage safely with complexities of inclusion
Helping leaders separate personal belief from professional responsibility
Strategies to address mistakes—asking clarifying questions, reflection, and reframing
12. Affinity Groups, Intersectionality, and ‘Community’
Complexity within marginalised groups—hierarchies and exclusion within the LGBTQ+ “community”
The limitations of labels such as “community” and alternative framings such as “populations”
Intersectionality and the shared experience of oppression by normative societal structures
13. Moving Beyond Performative Inclusion
The tension between tolerance, acceptance, and genuine inclusion
Importance of compassionate accountability as a framework for coexistence at work
Acknowledgement of the challenge in holding multiple perspectives and the need for leadership maturity
14. Global Perspectives: Inclusion Across Borders
Observations on differences in inclusion debates between the UK, Ireland, US, and globally
Insights into culturally specific challenges and media perspectives
15. Closing Reflections and Calls to Action
The importance of continued collective learning and open feedback
Invitation for audience perspectives, especially dissenting views
Encouragement for ongoing dialogue and community-building
This structured outline captures the rich flow of themes and sub-themes throughout the episode, illuminating the depth of discourse shared by Joanne Lockwood and her guest on going beyond performative inclusion.
The Hook
Ever felt like “inclusion” is just a tick-box exercise? Think again. What if everything you know about creating a culture where people thrive… is only half the story? The secret to true belonging isn’t what HR told you. It’s what happens when we stop PLAYING NICE and start being real.
“Bring your whole self to work.” Sounds good, right? But what if that’s actually making things WORSE? Forget kumbaya moments—let’s talk about why chasing ‘authenticity’ can backfire, and what leaders really need to create spaces where everyone can breathe. Curious? You should be.
Are you ready to ditch the fake smiles and ‘inclusive’ jargon? If you’ve had enough of performative box-ticking, this is YOUR wake-up call. Because it’s time for inclusion that goes beyond slogans—and yes, it might just shake a few myths you’ve been holding onto.
Think inclusion is just about celebrating differences? Think again. The real power is in HOW we disagree—and still find ways to thrive together. What happens when being ‘right’ gets in the way of real connection? The answer could change your entire approach to leadership.
Stuck in endless workplace debates about pronouns, identities, and getting it “right”? Spoiler: real inclusion isn’t about surface-level agreement—it's about creating space for real talk, tough questions, and facing discomfort together. Ready to get uncomfortable? This one’s for you.
🎬 Reel script
Ready to move beyond surface-level inclusion? On this episode of Inclusion Bites, we break down what it truly means to build workplaces where everyone thrives—not just fits in. Exploring identity, belonging, and the messy realities of organisational culture, we tackle the dangers of performative actions and discuss practical ways leaders can create environments of real psychological safety. If you’re serious about driving systemic change and want to connect, reflect, and inspire action, this one's for you. Listen now and join the conversation!
🗞️ Newsletter
Subject: Beyond Performative Inclusion: The Realities of Inclusive Leadership | Inclusion Bites Podcast
Hi Inclusion Bites Community,
Welcome to your latest dose of bold dialogue and practical inspiration from Inclusion Bites, where we ignite inclusion one conversation at a time.
🎧 New Episode Live: "Beyond Performative Inclusion"
In this powerful episode, host Joanne Lockwood takes us on an honest journey into what lies beneath the surface of DEI work, steering away from box-ticking and buzzwords towards genuine inclusion that equips everyone to thrive.
Our Special Guest: Sile Walsh
Sile, an award-winning coach, leadership specialist and author, brings unique expertise in embedding equity and psychological safety into organisational culture. Their core superpower? Bridging lived experience with leadership insight to drive real, systemic inclusion.
Key Conversations from This Episode:
Identity and Authenticity: Sile unpacks what it means to ‘translate’ identity rather than fit in, showing us that meaningful inclusion often means meeting each other halfway, not erasing or demanding conformity.
Beyond “Bring Your Whole Self to Work”: Why the popular mantra can be problematic, and how we should focus instead on cultivating environments where nobody needs to hide.
The Complexities of DEI: Both Joanne Lockwood and Sile discuss why DEI work has sometimes attracted criticism—from surface-level performativity to overlooking the need for proper expertise and the real goal: collective protection from harm, not just validation.
Holding ‘Difficult’ Conversations: The duo dissect the dangers of absolutism and echo chambers—whether within leadership, marginalised populations or wider society—and explore how humility and curiosity can build bridges.
The Reality of Inclusive Leadership: Effective inclusion isn’t about knowing everything. It’s about equipping leaders with skills to work with everyone, navigating paradoxes, embracing difference, and focusing on psychological safety.
Sociopolitical Reflections: From shifting dynamics in the LGBTQ+ ‘community’ to understanding world affairs, Sile and Joanne Lockwood highlight why context and power imbalances matter—and why we must strive for environments free from harm, not just agreement.
Why Should You Tune In?
This episode cuts through the noise and self-congratulatory activism. Instead, it’s an invitation to challenge assumptions, examine how policy and practice overlap, and lean into uncomfortable truths—always with compassion and accountability at the centre.
Take Action Today:
Listen to “Beyond Performative Inclusion” now: Inclusion Bites Episode 192
Share your thoughts, stories, or a differing perspective—Joanne Lockwood wants to hear from you! Email jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk
If today’s discussion resonated or challenged you, forward this newsletter to a colleague or friend who’d benefit, or perhaps someone who’d disagree—because this is how we all grow.
Together, let’s foster cultures where nobody is left behind, and genuine inclusion sparks transformative change.
Keep questioning, keep connecting,
The Inclusion Bites Team
#InclusionBites #LeadershipForChange #PositivePeopleExperiences
P.S. For all episode links and to join the conversation, visit Inclusion Bites on SEE Change Happen.
🧵 Tweet thread
🧵 1/ Inclusion isn’t just about buzzwords—it’s about challenging, rethinking, and truly transforming environments where we all belong. In this week's #InclusionBites podcast, Joanne Lockwood invited Sile Walsh to dig deep into what #BeyondPerformativeInclusion really means👇
2/ Sile shared a powerful personal narrative: adapting her Irish name in English settings and navigating identity across cultures. It’s not always about “fitting in”—sometimes it’s about translating, not losing, your authentic self. Isn't that the real spirit of inclusion?
3/ Names, accents, heritage—these expose the subtle pressures to conform and the real cost of belonging. Joanne Lockwood and Sile point out: true inclusion demands meeting in the middle, not forcing others to come to you. How often do we practise that in our workplaces?
4/ Psychological safety isn’t about letting everyone do as they please. It’s about creating the environment where people can bring the part of themselves that matters, free from harm, and able to thrive. Are our organisations equipping leaders with this mindset?
5/ Sile’s insight: “Inclusive leadership isn’t about knowing everything about everyone. It’s knowing how to work with everyone.” That’s the practical difference. It’s not just empathy—it’s skill. Shouldn’t we challenge all leaders to develop this muscle?
6/ The conversation got real about bringing your “whole self” to work. Joanne Lockwood questioned: If we’re alone, are we even a gender, sexuality, or just a survivor? It’s relativity. Inclusion is as much about context as it is about identity.
7/ And here’s the tough bit: inclusion requires us to engage with the “out group” not just the people we like. If our model excludes those we disagree with, is it genuinely inclusive? Difficult conversations are the heart of transformation.
8/ Sile bravely shared the paradox: the greatest exclusion she felt was “within her own community.” Inclusion, then, isn’t a static achievement—it’s something we must co-create and constantly interrogate, even amongst those with similar experiences.
9/ Want action? Inclusive cultures only thrive when we drop righteousness and truly get curious about other perspectives—even those we fiercely disagree with. It’s not about agreeing, it’s about dialogue and compassion-fuelled accountability.
10/ This episode is a challenge and a call to reflection. Are we performing inclusion or are we living it? Listen to the full conversation at 👉 https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen
11/ Got thoughts or want to join the discussion? Email Joanne Lockwood at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk and be part of driving real change. #InclusionIgnited #PositivePeopleExperiences
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Reflecting on an Honest Conversation: My Guest Experience on the Inclusion Bites Podcast
Recently, I had the privilege of joining the Inclusion Bites Podcast as a guest alongside the phenomenal host, Joanne Lockwood. The episode, “Beyond Performative Inclusion”, was not just an exploration of theory, but a true deep dive into the living realities, challenges, and nuances that shape our understanding of inclusion today. If you haven’t yet tuned in to Joanne’s series, I wholeheartedly recommend it for anyone seeking bold, meaningful conversations about belonging, equity and culture change.
Bridging Lived Experience and Leadership Insight
During our conversation, I was given the space to articulate what I consider my “superpower”: bridging lived experience with leadership insight to drive systemic inclusion. We spoke frankly about the tension between authenticity and adaptation, particularly as it relates to names, identity, and culture. I shared my own journey with adapting my name for various contexts—a microcosm of the broader negotiation so many of us undertake to be both understood and true to ourselves.
The Complex Truths Behind Inclusion
What made this appearance unique was the level of nuance encouraged by Joanne Lockwood. We unpacked the dangers of performative inclusion and how ‘inclusive leadership’ is often misunderstood as being “nice”, rather than about creating environments where all individuals—not just the palatable or agreeable ones—can feel safe and thrive. The discussion ventured into challenging territory, including cancel culture, mission creep in D&I, and the pitfalls of demanding others bring their “whole selves” to work without considering organisational realities and legal frameworks.
Human Rights in the Real World of Work
Drawing on both my research and coaching practice, I argued that the heart of real inclusion is not agreement, but the ability to hold multiple perspectives in respectful tension—what I believe is the foundation of any effective collective. From the boardroom to marginalised communities, I emphasised the need to focus on protecting against harm, whilst encouraging leaders not to fear getting it wrong, but to remain open and learn from feedback.
Courageous Conversations: Why They Matter
Perhaps most importantly, this episode was a testament to why honest, unguarded conversation remains one of our greatest tools for change. As Joanne and I modelled, it’s not about arriving at consensus, but about approaching each exchange with curiosity and accountability. Every question—especially the uncomfortable ones—offers an opportunity to build better, safer workplaces and resilient communities.
If you are committed to moving ‘beyond performative inclusion’ in your own context, I encourage you to listen to this episode of the Inclusion Bites Podcast. It’s time for all of us—leaders, HR professionals, D&I champions and beyond—to engage in deeper dialogue, challenge ourselves, and be part of the solution.
Listen to the episode here: Inclusion Bites Podcast
For more of my work, you can connect with me on LinkedIn or visit LS Advantage.
Let’s keep the conversation alive. If my perspectives resonated, challenged, or inspired you, I’d love to hear your thoughts—let's expand our understanding together.
Pain Points and Challenges
Certainly. Drawing directly from the "Beyond Performative Inclusion" episode of the Inclusion Bites Podcast, the discussion between Joanne Lockwood and Sile Walsh (guest) illuminated a number of pressing pain points and challenges within the landscape of inclusion, organisational culture, and leadership. Below you’ll find a clear enumeration of these pain points, alongside actionable content focused on practical solutions and robust approaches for each.
Key Pain Points & Challenges
Performative Inclusion and Lack of Depth
Organisations engaging in surface-level inclusion efforts without embedding meaningful change.
Inclusion viewed as a tick-box exercise rather than a strategic, systemic transformation.
Identity Adaptation and Loss of Authenticity
Individuals feel compelled to adapt names, behaviours, or cultural traits to fit dominant organisational norms, risking loss of authentic self.
The pressure to translate or “fit in” rather than truly belong.
Mixed Messaging: “Bring Your Whole Self to Work”
The contradiction in asking employees to bring their whole selves, while socially and legally restricting certain aspects (e.g., controversial beliefs).
Confusion over which parts of personal identity are genuinely welcome at work.
Leadership’s Fear of Getting It Wrong
Leaders are more fearful of being wrong or cancelled than being proactive and right.
Cancel culture and punitive frameworks inhibit open dialogue and effective inclusive behaviours.
Authenticity versus Protection
When does adapting one's identity serve psychological safety, and when does it become masking or self-erasure?
Struggles of people from marginalised or minority backgrounds to balance visibility with safety.
Misconception of Inclusion as Serving Only Minorities
Inclusion perceived as prioritising minority voices to the exclusion (or confusion) of the “mainstream,” fostering misunderstanding and resentment.
Mission Creep and Polarisation
Inclusion initiatives drifting beyond original organisational purpose, fuelling polarisation and tension, particularly around issues such as gender and protected characteristics.
Echo Chambers, Affinity Bias, and Exclusion Within Minorities
Even within so-called “communities” (such as LGBTQ+ populations), exclusion, hierarchy and affinity bias are rife.
The paradox of exclusion within groups advocating for inclusion.
Power Dynamics and Oppressive Use of Righteousness
Using moral high ground to oppress or silence others, rather than build dialogue.
Requiring continual apology or full conformity as a form of exerting power over dissenting individuals.
Addressing These Pain Points: Real Solutions and Approaches
1. Move Beyond Performative Inclusion
Shift focus from superficial policies to embedding equity and psychological safety in day-to-day operations.
Develop clear metrics for inclusion that measure impact, not just intent.
Engage employees at every level, using feedback loops to refine and sustain real change.
2. Foster Authentic Belonging Without Forced Adaptation
Encourage translational approaches, where cultural or personal identifiers are explained but not erased.
Value diversity of experiences and encourage dignity in differences, rather than pushing conformity.
3. Redefine “Bringing Your Whole Self”
Clarify organisational boundaries: promote bringing relevant, authentic aspects of self that enhance belonging and performance, whilst respecting collective codes of conduct.
Provide safe spaces for private reflection and dialogue where employees can express uncertainties without fear of sanction.
4. Enable Leadership Vulnerability and Growth
Leaders should have access to confidential, coaching-style conversations for exploring mistakes, learning, and personal bias.
Celebrate leaders who ask “How so?” instead of defensively resisting feedback, allowing for mutual understanding and learning.
5. Balance Visibility and Safety for Marginalised Groups
Facilitate nuanced conversations about which aspects of identity are central to well-being and performance, and which are best protected in certain contexts.
Implement support structures (e.g., Employee Resource Groups) that understand intersectionality and unique lived experiences.
6. Frame Inclusion for the Good of All
Inclusion should serve the organisational purpose and the common good, not solely the needs of any one minority.
Train all employees in understanding that inclusion is about systemic fairness: everyone flourishes when barriers are removed.
7. Avoid Mission Creep—Stay Purposeful
Regularly revisit and align inclusion efforts with the core functions and goals of the organisation.
Address issues of polarisation by promoting dialogue aimed at shared organisational objectives.
8. Challenge Echo Chambers and Hierarchies Within Minorities
Facilitate cross-group conversations within minority populations, acknowledging that no community is homogenous.
Recognise and address exclusion, hierarchy, and bias within affinity groups.
9. Use Power Compassionately, Not Oppressively
Foster compassionate accountability: challenge harmful beliefs and actions, but avoid using moral superiority as a tool of domination.
Promote tolerance as a starting point, but actively work towards acceptance and mutual respect.
Final Thoughts
The solutions outlined above move beyond rhetoric to practical, human-centred policies and behaviours. Organisations must continually ask: How are our structures, rules, and rituals serving all people? Are leaders empowered to learn and grow, or paralysed by fear? Are we truly welcoming all necessary perspectives for our purpose, or simply those with which we are comfortable?
If these pain points speak to your experience, consider sharing this episode, starting a conversation in your own workspace, or reaching out for tailored support via Inclusion Bites (jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk). True inclusion is the art of holding multiple perspectives—sometimes in paradox—while continually striving for environments where everyone is safe, valued, and able to thrive.
For more insights and in-depth conversations on these themes, visit Inclusion Bites Podcast.
Questions Asked that were insightful
Certainly! Based on the transcript from “Beyond Performative Inclusion” on the Inclusion Bites Podcast, several questions raised by Joanne Lockwood led to nuanced, thought-provoking responses, which stand out as valuable material for an FAQ series. Below is a selection—each presented as a plausible audience question, followed by a distilled, insightful answer that encapsulates the guest’s response:
FAQ: How does your name or cultural background affect your sense of belonging and identity at work?
Insight from the episode:
The transcript explored the complexities of personal names and cultural heritage, especially around the adaptation of Irish names in English contexts. The guest highlighted that, for some, changing or abbreviating one’s name feels like a necessary translation for mutual understanding, rather than an erasure of identity. However, the impact varies; for some, their authentic name or heritage is integral to their sense of self and belonging, while others are more comfortable adapting for societal ease without feeling diminished.
FAQ: Is bringing your “whole self” to work always the best advice for inclusion?
Insight from the episode:
Contrary to popular messaging, Joanne Lockwood and the guest discussed that the “bring your whole self to work” mantra can be misleading. Not all facets of an individual’s identity are appropriate or necessary in a workplace context, and some aspects ought to be left out—both for professional appropriateness and legal compliance. True inclusion is about removing the imperative to hide marginalised aspects of identity, not unleashing every thought or trait into professional spaces.
FAQ: What is the difference between tolerance and genuine inclusion?
Insight from the episode:
The guest suggested that tolerance is the lowest bar—simply “putting up with” difference—whereas genuine inclusion aims for acceptance, compassionate accountability, and the creation of a co-operative environment. Sometimes, tolerance is the necessary starting point for individuals grappling with deeply ingrained beliefs, but the aim should always be to progress towards more meaningful acceptance and collaboration.
FAQ: Why do some diversity and inclusion initiatives gain a “bad reputation,” and how can organisations improve them?
Insight from the episode:
The podcast examined current criticisms faced by D&I (or DEI) work. Problems arise when lived experiences are put forward as expertise without broader systemic understanding, or when political activism overrides organisational change strategy. The guest advocated for a nuanced approach—emphasising the need for expertise, systemic thinking, and a focus on constructive organisational impact, rather than identity alone.
FAQ: Is it possible to foster inclusion among people with fundamentally opposing views or identities?
Insight from the episode:
Yes—but this requires shifting from attempts to control or homogenise belief, towards establishing protections and respectful boundaries within organisations. Inclusion isn’t about erasing or converting differing perspectives—it’s about enabling all individuals, regardless of background or belief, to have equal access, safety, and opportunity within an environment designed for co-existence, not agreement.
FAQ: How should leaders deal with the fear of getting it wrong in diversity and inclusion conversations?
Insight from the episode:
The episode provided practical advice: leaders are often more afraid of making mistakes than being “perfectly” right. Leaders benefit from confidential, one-to-one opportunities to express uncertainties and learn—these safe spaces are more conducive to growth than group discussions, which can trigger defensive behaviour due to policy, procedure, or fear of repercussion.
FAQ: What does “inclusive leadership” look like in practice, beyond simply being ‘nice’?
Insight from the episode:
Effective inclusive leadership requires creating environments where all can thrive, focusing first on psychological safety and fair access. This might mean making tough decisions, setting boundaries, and focusing organisational efforts on the collective good—not only uplifting marginalised voices, but considering everyone’s ability to contribute and succeed.
These FAQs reflect the spirit and insight of the episode, and would serve as credible resources for anyone wanting to deepen their understanding of the nuanced realities underpinning practical inclusion. If you’d like these organised further, or expanded with more direct quotes, simply let me know!
Blog article based on the episode
Beyond Performative Inclusion: Unpacking the Real Work of Belonging in Organisations
“Inclusion isn’t just about bringing your ‘whole self’ to work – it’s about fostering environments where all can truly thrive, not just those who agree with us.”
– Inspired by Sile Walsh on The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Episode: Beyond Performative Inclusion
Are We Really Inclusive, or Just Playing the Part?
Picture this: your leadership team champions a “bring your authentic self to work” culture, proudly displays diversity posters and ticks every box in the D&I survey. Yet, beneath the surface, psychological safety falters, polarisation festers, and the only people comfortable contributing are those who already fit in. Is this true inclusion—or merely performance?
This is the uncomfortable reality dissected in episode 192 of The Inclusion Bites Podcast – “Beyond Performative Inclusion” – where host Joanne Lockwood interviewed award-winning coach and leadership specialist Sile Walsh. Their raw, practical insights cut to the heart of why inclusion so often fails to move beyond virtue signalling and what it actually takes to achieve systemic change.
The Problem: The Pitfalls of Performative Inclusion
According to Sile Walsh, the diversity and inclusion (D&I) space has developed a credibility crisis—sometimes deserved. There’s a tendency for organisations to conflate activism with sustainable change, or to rely on surface-level efforts led by passion rather than expertise. As Joanne Lockwood and Sile articulate, “social activism coming into the workplace [often doesn’t] understand organisational change and the psychology of how organisations function as systems.” The result? Confused leaders, disenfranchised employees, and initiatives that never stick.
Many D&I efforts fail because:
They centre around the minority voice without integrating the needs of the wider group and the organisation’s purpose.
They demand agreement as a condition of inclusion, which is, paradoxically, antithetical to true diversity. As Sile says, “to be inclusive, we must all agree” is itself an exclusive stance.
The focus becomes risk-aversion—“leaders are less inclined to be right, and more scared of being wrong”—which stifles open discussion and drives important topics underground.
Mission creep results in counterproductive tension, especially on polarising subjects, leaving cultural change immobilised by fear and inaction.
If you recognise any of these dynamics in your organisation, you’re not alone. The question is: how can we move beyond inclusion as a buzzword and towards something meaningful and transformative?
Actionable Insights: From Soundbites to Systemic Shifts
1. Redefine What Inclusion Means in Context
Stop insisting that everyone bring their ‘whole self’ to work. As Sile notes, the original intention was to remove the need for marginalised groups to hide core aspects of themselves—yet not every behaviour or belief belongs in every context. Instead, aim for cultures where authenticity is supported within professional boundaries and responsibilities.
Action: Redraft inclusion policies and messaging to emphasise psychological safety and appropriateness, not unfiltered self-expression.
2. Meet in the Middle, Not on the Margins
Inclusion should not mean that one group centres its needs over others, nor that leaders must become experts in everyone’s identity. Instead, Sile advocates that we find “the places where I can meet other people, and they can meet me.” It’s about mutual translation—not endless compromise, nor stubborn rigidity.
Action: Facilitate spaces for dialogue where employees can express what is important for their sense of safety and belonging, and encourage leaders to genuinely listen without the pressure of immediate agreement.
3. Focus on Environments, Not just Individuals
Sile’s core insight is that “the environment you put people in has as much impact on their performance as their capability.” The best leaders adjust environments—systems, processes, norms—so that people can flourish rather than just demanding personal resilience from individuals. Psychological safety is not a platitude but a measurable outcome.
Action: Audit the organisational environment. What are people afraid to say, and why? Where do people feel they cannot raise challenges or admit mistakes? Address these systematically, not just through workshops, but through re-engineering policies and leadership development.
4. Establish Robust, Compassionate Accountability
True inclusion is not about avoiding offence. It’s about encouraging challenge, and dealing with difference compassionately but firmly. Sile warns against “weaponizing” inclusion—either by shutting down alternative views as inherently ‘-ist’ or, conversely, excusing harmful behaviour in the name of ‘free speech’. The line is actions, not just beliefs.
Action: Train leaders to respond to feedback not with defensiveness (e.g., “that’s not what I meant!”) but with genuine curiosity (“help me understand how what I said impacted you”). This reduces anxiety around ‘cancellation’ and supports growth.
5. Move from Tolerance to Acceptance and Value
Tolerance is the lowest bar; it’s putting up with difference rather than seeing it as an asset. As Sile outlines, “we might have to start with tolerance, but the real aim is compassionate accountability – holding each other responsible, with care.”
Action: Review ERG frameworks, performance assessments, and conflict policies to ensure they encourage not just compliance, but also learning and positive engagement from all parties.
The Call to Action: Making Inclusion More Than a Slogan
If there’s one message to take from Sile Walsh’s approach, it is this: real inclusion work is messy, brave, and requires us to be both compassionate and relentlessly practical. “Inclusion work involves the out-group,” as Joanne Lockwood summarises, “not just people that you like.”
Where do you stand? Are your behaviours, policies, and systems truly creating workplaces where difference is valued—or are you reinforcing echo chambers with a rainbow badge?
Start today:
Open a conversation in your team about what inclusion means at a practical level.
Reflect on where your systems create barriers to belonging—and commit to changing just one thing.
Listen to others whose views challenge your own, not to change their mind but to expand your understanding.
For more energetic, honest, and actionable dialogues about inclusion, listen to “Beyond Performative Inclusion” on The Inclusion Bites Podcast. Let these conversations inspire you not just to talk about change, but to drive it—relentlessly, vulnerably, and together.
For feedback, alternative perspectives, or to join the movement, contact Joanne at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk. True inclusion starts with brave, messy, necessary conversations. What’s your next one going to be?
The standout line from this episode
A standout line from this episode is:
"What we really mean is I want to include the people I like and agree with. Because when I say—when people say bring your authentic self to work, I say, first of all, legally that's problematic... But secondly, we're not generally in the inclusion space meaning the homophobic, racist, sexist, transphobes. We don't want them to bring their whole authentic self to work. Right. So we want to deplatform them."
❓ Questions
Certainly! Here are 10 discussion questions inspired by this episode of the Inclusion Bites Podcast, “Beyond Performative Inclusion”:
How does the distinction between translating one’s identity for understanding and “fitting in” manifest in diverse workplaces, and what implications does this have for psychological safety?
In what ways can leaders balance their personal beliefs with their organisational obligation to create environments where all staff can thrive, regardless of background or identity?
The episode discusses the pitfalls of “bringing your whole self to work.” Where should boundaries be drawn, and how can organisations navigate what is “appropriate” at work?
What are the risks of using lived experience as the sole qualification for DE&I expertise in organisations, as described in the episode?
How do power dynamics within both majority and minority communities influence who feels “included” and who is marginalised further?
Joanne Lockwood and their guest unpacked the difference between seeking approval from the collective and seeking protection from harm. How does this distinction guide effective inclusion strategies?
Discuss the concept that inclusion should not require universal agreement, but rather a respect for different perspectives. How can this be cultivated in groups with polarised views?
When does accountability in the workplace slip into “cancel culture,” and how can leaders create environments that allow for learning and growth after mistakes?
Reflecting on the episode, how can leaders handle being challenged on language or behaviour in a way that prioritises reflection over defensiveness?
The conversation emphasised the importance of moving “beyond performative inclusion.” What practical actions can leaders take to embed genuine inclusion, rather than simply ticking boxes or reacting to trends?
These questions encourage deep analysis and self-reflection, perfect for team discussions, leadership workshops, or personal exploration on the themes of identity, belonging, and authentic inclusion.
FAQs from the Episode
FAQ: Beyond Performative Inclusion – Episode 192, The Inclusion Bites Podcast
1. What is the core message of “Beyond Performative Inclusion”?
This episode centres on the distinction between performative gestures around inclusion and the genuine, deep transformations needed within organisational culture. The conversation critiques surface-level diversity initiatives and instead advocates for authentic psychological safety and equity, where all individuals can truly thrive without masking or hiding parts of themselves.
2. How does the guest describe the experience of adapting personal identity within different cultures?
The guest, Sile Walsh, discusses the intricacies of navigating multiple cultural identities, particularly when personal names or backgrounds don’t fit the prevailing societal norms. The expectation to modify or “translate” one’s identity for others is described less as “fitting in” and more as facilitating mutual understanding, whilst emphasising the importance of self-acceptance irrespective of external recognition.
3. What does psychological safety mean in the context of inclusion?
Psychological safety refers to a work environment where individuals feel safe to express themselves without fear of negative consequences. Authentic inclusion is more than being “nice”—it involves allowing space for diverse identities and perspectives, as well as acknowledging the external harms people may face within organisational systems.
4. Why can “bring your whole self to work” be problematic?
Both Joanne Lockwood and the guest highlight that this phrase can be misleading. While the intention was to reduce the pressure for marginalised people to hide who they are, “bring your whole self” is not always practical or legally advisable. Instead, people should be supported to bring the parts of their identity that matter while remaining appropriate for the workspace.
5. What is the difference between tolerance, acceptance, and true inclusion?
The conversation distinguishes tolerance (simply “putting up with” difference) from acceptance (welcoming diversity), and further from genuine inclusion, where environments are actively co-created for all to thrive. True inclusion demands accountability and compassionate engagement that goes beyond mere surface-level agreements.
6. How can leaders foster genuine inclusion rather than performative efforts?
Leaders should prioritise creating environments where safety and equity are present, focusing less on ticking diversity boxes and more on structural and relational change. It’s important for leaders to understand that inclusion should serve the organisation and all its people, not simply respond to the loudest or most politically engaged voices.
7. Is disagreement compatible with inclusion?
Absolutely. The episode asserts that authentic inclusion does not mean universal agreement. Diversity of thought inherently carries disagreement; the aim should be respectful engagement, not uniformity. Labelling and dehumanisation—on any side—are counterproductive to inclusion.
8. What is mission creep and how does it impact inclusion initiatives?
“Mission creep” refers to the expanding scope of inclusion and diversity initiatives beyond their intended purpose, often leading to workplace tensions, confusion, and polarisation—especially noted in the UK. Clear boundaries and alignment with organisational objectives are essential.
9. How should leaders handle fears of making mistakes or being ‘cancelled’?
Rather than demanding perfection, leaders should be supported in private, psychologically safe settings to express confusion or concern, learn from mistakes, and focus public statements on enabling employees to perform and feel valued. Call-outs should be met with curiosity (“How so?”) and reflection rather than defensiveness.
10. Are all “in-groups” truly inclusive?
No. The episode points out that exclusion frequently occurs within minority communities themselves, often due to perceived lack of authenticity or conflicting priorities. Genuine inclusion work recognises complex intersections and seeks to transcend affinity-group boundaries.
11. How can listeners engage with these ideas and the podcast?
Listeners are encouraged to share alternative perspectives, challenge what they hear, and continue open dialogues. Joanne Lockwood actively invites engagement via jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk and through the Inclusion Bites website: https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen.
For more resources, deeper discussions, and ways to connect, review the full podcast episode and explore the additional show notes provided.
Tell me more about the guest and their views
The guest in this episode is Síle Walsh, described as an award-winning coach, author, and leadership specialist dedicated to embedding equity and psychological safety into leadership and organisational culture on a global scale. Síle’s self-identified superpower is “bridging lived experience with leadership insight to drive systemic inclusion,” which encapsulates their holistic and pragmatic approach to inclusion.
On Identity and Names:
Síle brings a refreshing perspective to notions of identity, particularly regarding names and cultural belonging. For them, having a uniquely Irish name, often mispronounced outside Ireland, is not a source of distress; instead, Síle views adapting or “translating” their name as a way to facilitate understanding rather than as a loss of authenticity. Their approach is inwardly resilient—Síle articulates that true comfort with one’s identity comes from self-understanding, not external validation. However, they also note that for some, being seen and named authentically by others is crucial, so there’s an awareness of varied lived experiences.
Cultural Fluidity:
Síle’s experience growing up between Ireland and England informs their perception of cultural identity. They articulate the challenges of not being “Irish enough” in Ireland, nor “English enough” in England. This transitory identity, they argue, brings a broader and more flexible sense of self, which can be both enriching and isolating. There’s an emphasis on how formative cultural exposures during one’s youth shape not just identity but also how one feels at home in the world.
Gender and Sexuality:
Síle identifies as agnostic about gender—they don’t feel closely bound to gendered identities and see these as constructs primarily relevant in relation to others, rather than as core to their inner sense of self. Síle advocates that their gender or sexuality only becomes meaningful contextually, such as in healthcare or in intimate relationships, but shouldn’t be the primary lens through which others interact with or categorise them. They champion the idea that self-assurance within one’s identity minimises the need for continual external approval, but they distinguish this from the necessity for collective protections to prevent harm (for instance, through human rights or anti-discrimination measures).
Approach to Inclusion and Leadership:
Síle’s work in inclusive leadership is both practical and empathetic. Their key insight is that inclusion in organisations is not about knowing everything about everyone, but about understanding how to work with everyone. They stress the importance of focusing on systemic features of the workplace—such as psychological safety and equitable structures—rather than relying solely on performative gestures or identity-based expertise. They are candid about the limitations and pitfalls in the diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) industry, pointing out how lived experience alone does not equate to qualified expertise, and how bringing activism into a corporate setting without organisational understanding can undermine inclusion efforts.
Balanced and Pragmatic Stance:
Síle is open about the problematic reputational issues facing DEI work—some deserved, some the result of political weaponisation or poor practice. They distinguish between the right to personal beliefs (even prejudiced ones) and the expectation for behaviour in workplaces: holding a homophobic or racist belief is, in their words, a human right, but acting on those to harm others is not acceptable. In practical workplace terms, they advocate for creating environments where all employees, including those with marginalised identities, can thrive—emphasising that inclusion is not synonymous with universal agreement or endless tolerance, but with equitable and safe conditions for performance.
Handling Complexity and Disagreement:
Síle resists simplistic binaries, whether in the LGBTQ+ “community” or in workplace cultures. They challenge the notion that inclusion is about agreement or sameness, arguing that embracing diversity actually means holding space for multiple, sometimes conflicting perspectives—so long as these do not translate into harm. They also critique “mission creep” and performative inclusion, suggesting instead that organisations stay anchored to their fundamental purpose: enabling people to perform and belong without unnecessary barriers.
Facilitating Honest Dialogue:
Síle is a strong advocate of compassionate, confidential conversations, particularly with leaders who fear “getting it wrong.” They believe productive inclusion comes through honest, private dialogue that enables leaders to process their concerns or gaps in knowledge without risking cancellation or public censure, distinguishing between building knowledge and enforcing ideological conformity.
In summary, Síle Walsh’s views are distinguished by thoughtful nuance, self-reflection, and critique. They blend lived experience with systems thinking, advocate for inner resilience as well as systemic protection, and encourage both practical and empathetic advancement of truly inclusive cultures—markedly “beyond performative inclusion.”
Ideas for Future Training and Workshops based on this Episode
Certainly! Drawing from the rich, nuanced discussion in this episode of Inclusion Bites, here are several impactful and original training and workshop ideas that would resonate deeply with listeners and participants. Each concept foregrounds complexity over simplicity and brings together the practical experiences and philosophical insights discussed by Joanne Lockwood and Sile Walsh.
1. Beyond Performative Inclusion: From Buzzwords to Behavioural Change
Content Focus:
Delve into why DEI (Diversity, Equity & Inclusion) is more than a checklist or a buzzword, exploring the distinction between performative and authentic inclusion. Address where performative practices falter and how to shift to sustainable, meaningful change.
Key Activities:
Analysis of “performative” versus “systemic” actions
Role–play of typical workplace scenarios to uncover hidden performativity
Group reflection on current practices
2. Names, Identity & the Power of Translation—not Fitting In
Content Focus:
Based on Sile’s perspective on adapting versus fitting in, this workshop would explore the sociology of names, identity translation, and the experience of belonging. Perfect for global and multicultural teams.
Key Activities:
Personal storytelling and small-group interviews
Cultural mapping activity on naming traditions
Strategies for respectful pronunciation and engagement
3. Psychological Safety for Inclusive Leadership
Content Focus:
Explore how to foster psychological safety in diverse teams, focusing on the leader’s role in cultivating environments where people can express both consensus and dissent without fear.
Key Activities:
Identification of “danger zones” where conversation shuts down
Building trust through compassionate accountability
Case studies on supporting difference and constructive challenge
4. Navigating Power and Privilege without Paralysis
Content Focus:
Practical approaches for leaders to acknowledge and manage power and privilege, addressing the difference between feeling “right” and wielding power over. How do we use our positions ethically?
Key Activities:
Reflective power-mapping
Scenario planning on power imbalances (boardroom to community)
Courageous conversations on when “being right” is exclusionary
5. Inclusive Leadership without Knowing Everything
Content Focus:
Leaders don’t need omniscience. Based on the insight that effective inclusive leadership relies less on knowing every personal story and more on structural competence and relational skill.
Key Activities:
Myth-busting session: “Leader as All-Knowing”
Coaching simulations: facilitating unknown or uncomfortable discussions
Self-audit tool on inclusivity competencies
6. The Art of Disagreement: Dialogue without Division
Content Focus:
Teach teams how to disagree well—holding multiple perspectives, tolerating discomfort, and ensuring diversity of thought is functional rather than fractious.
Key Activities:
Paradox mapping exercises: exploring and holding tension
Practice in giving and receiving feedback where worldviews clash
Group agreement on boundaries for healthy challenge
7. Bridging Lived and Professional Experience in Inclusion
Content Focus:
Unpack the risks of relying solely on lived experience without additional learning and the pitfalls of social activism in the workplace (as raised in the episode). Develop a sophisticated approach to allyship.
Key Activities:
Lived experience vs. professional knowledge debate
Tools for critical self-reflection: “Are you seeking approval or safety?”
Breakout sessions on allyship models
8. The Limits of “Bringing Your Whole Self” to Work
Content Focus:
Challenge the common narrative—discuss what “appropriateness” means, where healthy boundaries lie, and how we avoid mission creep or “inclusion” that is really about clubbiness.
Key Activities:
Exploration of case law and HR implications
Discuss scenarios where boundaries are essential vs. when they’re exclusionary
Development of team/organisational “inclusion mission statement”
9. Inclusion for the Out-Group: Compassionate Accountability
Content Focus:
Address the reality that inclusion work must also embrace unpopular or uncomfortable perspectives, including those with unpalatable or minority views.
Key Activities:
“Out-group in the room” exercise
Skills for holding accountability with compassion
Practise on moving the conversation from tolerance to acceptance
10. Media, Truth and Perspective: Unpacking Bias in Information Ecosystems
Content Focus:
Inspired by the podcast's discussion of international perspectives, create sessions on how media shapes narratives, the impact of cultural context on truth, and how to lead through complexity.
Key Activities:
Comparative media analysis
Group map of “truths” in different cultures
Training in information literacy for inclusion leaders
These workshop designs are anchored in the reflective, critical, and deeply human approach modelled throughout the episode. Each would engage teams far beyond surface learning, making them directly relevant for leadership retreats, ERGs, and whole-organisation development alike.
For bespoke adaptation or further details, listeners can reach out to Joanne Lockwood at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk or visit Inclusion Bites on SEE Change Happen.
🪡 Threads by Instagram
Performative inclusion is not enough. Real inclusion happens when leaders create environments where everyone—not just the majority—can truly thrive. It’s about collective safety, not ticking boxes.
True belonging comes when we’re valued for who we are, not just how we fit into a norm. Inclusion means meeting each other in the middle, not demanding everyone adjust to us.
Bringing your “whole self” to work isn’t always the goal. Instead, let’s create spaces where we don’t need to hide the parts that matter—while respecting that boundaries make workplaces healthy.
Inclusion isn’t about making everyone agree. It’s about holding space for disagreement and curiosity, seeking to understand different perspectives rather than demanding sameness.
Leaders fear getting it wrong more than chasing being right. We need room for honest questions, room to make mistakes, and the courage to keep learning—because that’s what real inclusive culture looks like.
Leadership Insights - YouTube Short Video Script on Common Problems for Leaders to Address
Leadership Insights Channel: Tackling Fear of Getting Inclusion Wrong
Are you a leader who hesitates to speak up about inclusion, worried you’ll say the wrong thing and be cancelled? You’re not alone!
The problem is, when leaders fear mistakes, they often say nothing—silencing critical conversations and missing the chance to build trust.
Here’s how to break the cycle:
Acknowledge you don’t know everything—openness is a strength, not a weakness.
When challenged, ask “How so?” and listen— don’t defend or dismiss. Invite others to explain their perspective.
Reflect before you react. It’s all right to say, “Let me think about that and come back to you.”
Focus on creating an environment where your team feels safe and valued, rather than being “right.”
Leaders who prioritise understanding over perfection build workplaces where people thrive, innovate, and stay engaged.
Release the need to be perfect. Start fostering real conversations and lead the way in authentic inclusion.
Subscribe for more actionable leadership insights!
SEO Optimised Titles
Beyond Performative Inclusion | Navigating Inclusive Leadership in 2025: 3 Must-Know Myths Debunked | Sile @ LS Advantage
5 Surprising Facts About Psychological Safety and Organisational Culture in Leadership | Sile @ LS Advantage
Inclusive Leadership Uncovered: Stats, Lived Experience, and the Power of Real Culture Change | Sile @ LS Advantage
Email Newsletter about this Podcast Episode
Subject: Beyond Performative Inclusion: 5 Keys to Building a Truly Inclusive Culture 🎧✨
Hello Inclusion Bites family,
Ready to challenge what you think you know about inclusion? Pull up a chair, grab your favourite brew, and let’s dive into a refreshingly honest conversation: Episode 192 — “Beyond Performative Inclusion”.
This episode, Joanne Lockwood welcomes Sile Walsh, an award-winning coach, author, and leadership specialist, for a candid chat that cuts through the noise and gets to the heart of what real, lasting inclusion looks like (hint: it’s NOT just a tick-box exercise!). The banter is lively, the insights are sharp, and there’s a brilliant dash of Irish charm throughout.
Here are 5 keys you’ll take away from this episode:
Why Inclusion Is for Everyone
Discover how effective inclusion isn’t just for marginalised groups – it’s about shaping environments where all people, regardless of their backgrounds or beliefs, can thrive.Embracing “Bringing Your Appropriate Self” (Not Your Whole Self)
Learn why asking people to bring their ‘whole self’ to work is problematic, and how instead, bringing your appropriate self creates safer, more authentic workplaces.The Power Game: Spotting Harm vs. Seeking Approval
Gain insight into the difference between needing external approval for your identity and seeking harm reduction in organisational cultures.Why Leaders Shouldn’t Fear Getting It Wrong
Get actionable strategies for leaders—including how to handle being called out, and why the best leaders create space for tough conversations without being paralysed by fear of mistakes.How to Move Beyond Labelling to Real Understanding
Explore how to navigate polarised beliefs at work, address intolerance without dehumanising, and create conversations that spark genuine connection (not defensiveness).
Unique Fact from This Episode:
Did you know Sile Walsh’s surname is actually a “translation” of her Irish name, Sheila Branock? She shares a charming story about how she adapted her own identity for clarity, highlighting how “meeting each other halfway” matters more than rigidly sticking to cultural or linguistic authenticity. It’s a powerful metaphor for the essence of inclusion: translation, not assimilation.
Your Call to Action:
Inspired? Challenged? Maybe even a bit uncomfortable? Great! That’s where transformation starts.
Subscribe to Inclusion Bites, share this episode with someone who needs to rethink their perspective, and—most importantly—join the conversation! We’d love to hear where you agree, disagree, or want to dig deeper.
Drop us a line at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk or listen and share here: https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen
Let’s disrupt workplace norms together—one bold, authentic conversation at a time.
Keep sparking change,
The Inclusion Bites Team
#InclusionBites #Belonging #BeyondTheTickBox
Potted Summary
Episode Intro
In this powerful episode of Inclusion Bites, Joanne Lockwood is joined by Sile Walsh to unpack what lies beyond performative inclusion. Together, they explore the nuances of authentic belonging, the challenges faced by marginalised groups and leaders, and how psychological safety is essential for truly inclusive cultures. This thought-provoking conversation advocates for embracing discomfort, challenging societal norms, and promoting environments where everyone can thrive—regardless of background or identity.
in this conversation we discuss
👉 Authentic Identity
👉 Power & Harm
👉 Inclusive Leadership
here are a few of our favourite quotable moments
“For me in the world, my job is to find the places where I can meet other people and they can meet me.”
“If I'm sharing my views and they have to be better than yours, that's oppressive.”
“Inclusion work involves the out group.”
Summary & Call to Action
This episode delves into the essence of genuine inclusion, highlighting how authenticity, power dynamics, and self-reflection foster workplace belonging. If you’re curious about practical steps beyond surface-level inclusion, listen now for fresh perspectives and actionable insights. Tune in at Inclusion Bites.
LinkedIn Poll
Certainly! Here’s a LinkedIn poll setup inspired by the insights from this episode of Inclusion Bites – "Beyond Performative Inclusion."
Poll framing summary for context:
Episode 192 of Inclusion Bites, "Beyond Performative Inclusion," delved into the complexities of authentic inclusion in organisational cultures. A key topic was the challenge of moving beyond performative gestures towards genuinely inclusive environments—where difference is not just tolerated, but purposefully valued, and psychological safety is prioritised. Sile Walsh and Joanne Lockwood discussed the tension between collective belonging and individual authenticity, especially around marginalised identities and leadership.
Poll Question:
What do you think is the biggest barrier to moving beyond performative inclusion at work? #InclusionBites #Belonging #InclusiveLeadership
Poll options (each with emoji, <30 characters):
🤝 Fear of 'getting it wrong'
🧩 Lack of leadership buy-in
🗣️ Cancel culture concerns
📋 Focus on quick fixes
Closing (why vote):
Your input helps spotlight not just what's holding us back, but also sparks bold conversations on where to focus our efforts. Vote and join the Inclusion Bites community in shaping the future of meaningful, action-oriented inclusion!
You may share this poll with your network to ignite reflection and discussion using #InclusionBites.
Highlight the Importance of this topic on LinkedIn
💬 Just finished listening to the Inclusion Bites Podcast episode "Beyond Performative Inclusion" and I can’t recommend it enough for every HR, EDI, and leadership professional.
Why does this conversation matter to our industry? Because Joanne Lockwood and Sile Walsh deliver a raw, honest reflection on the reality of inclusion—way beyond tick-box exercises. Here are my takeaways:
🤝 Psychological safety is the foundation. It’s about creating environments where colleagues don’t have to mask or hide to be valued.
❌ True inclusion is NOT about everyone being the same or always agreeing. As Sile put it, if inclusion is just for people you like, you’re missing the point.
❓ Leaders shouldn’t be paralysed by the fear of being wrong. Instead, we need space to ask questions, share different viewpoints, and learn—without fear of ‘cancellation’.
🚫 Lived experience matters, but expertise and nuance in EDI conversations are critical. We must move from activism to sustainable organisational change.
Our profession needs to create spaces where the hard conversations can happen, with compassion and accountability—not just slogans.
Highly recommend tuning in for real-world insights that genuinely drive inclusion forward!
#InclusionBites #HR #InclusiveLeadership #Equity #Belonging #EDI #PeopleFirst
L&D Insights
Certainly! Here’s a targeted report for Senior Leaders, HR, and EDI (Equality, Diversity, and Inclusion) professionals drawn from the Inclusion Bites Podcast: Beyond Performative Inclusion with Sile Walsh.
Key Insights & "Aha Moments" 💡
1. Inclusion Isn't About Perfection—It's About Environment
Rather than expecting everyone to know everything about everyone, true inclusion stems from creating organisational environments where all can thrive. As Sile Walsh articulates, inclusive leadership means knowing how to work with everyone, not knowing everything about everyone.
2. Move from Performative to Practical Inclusion
The conversation exposes the dangers of performative actions—where inclusion is "shown" but not genuinely embedded. Real inclusion addresses barriers systemically, balancing the needs of minorities with the needs and purpose of the whole organisation. It’s not about over-indexing on activism, but integrating inclusion into real policies and day-to-day behaviours.
3. Unpack Your Own Biases—and Allow Others to Hold Theirs
One of the most striking moments comes as Sile emphasises: you cannot—and should not—insist that everyone agrees. Inclusion means managing difference, not erasing it. Leaders are urged to recognise that being uncomfortable with others’ perspectives is not the same as being harmed. The right to believe differently is critical; the right to harm is not.
4. Put 'Psychological Safety' First
Both Joanne Lockwood and Sile Walsh highlight that psychological safety—ensuring staff can speak up without fear of humiliation or penalty—is a foundation stone for both belonging and performance. Training, policies and leadership behaviours must make this explicit.
5. Leaders Need Safe Spaces Too
A rarely discussed insight is the power of confidential coaching and reflection for leaders themselves. Sile advises that one-to-one sessions, without public or HR scrutiny, allow leaders to admit uncertainty and process their fears of getting it 'wrong'. This is essential for real growth and improving allyship.
What Should Leaders, HR, and EDI Pros Do Differently? 🎯
Facilitate, Don't Force, Identity Conversations
Stop demanding that team members (or leaders) perform aspects of identity; instead, foster respectful curiosity. Allow for "translation" rather than assimilation.Design Policies Grounded in Organisational Purpose
Inclusion should serve both the organisation's outcomes and societal fairness. When exclusion occurs, ensure it's justifiable, not arbitrary (e.g., skills-based requirements, not organisational tradition).Shift the Inclusion Message
Stop saying "bring your whole self to work"—communicate instead that staff should feel they don’t have to hide who they are within professional boundaries.Model Compassionate Accountability
Encourage tough conversations with compassion, acknowledging that mistakes (and discomfort) will happen. Retrain the response to “how so?” when challenged, rather than going on the defensive.Challenge the Echo Chamber
Recognise and disrupt "in-group" biases—even within marginalised communities. True inclusion means widening the circle, not just reinforcing comfort zones.Support Leaders to Process Uncertainty
Give leaders confidential development spaces to build competency and psychological safety, so that intersectional and difference-driven conversations are not avoided out of fear.
Hashtag Suggestions for Social Engagement 🌐
#BeyondPerformativeInclusion
#InclusionNotIllusion
#LeadWithCompassion
#BelongingInAction
#EDITransformation
This podcast episode is a compelling reminder: Inclusion is not simply a feel-good exercise—it's serious, systemic work involving ongoing dialogue, self-reflection, and organisational courage. Leaders, are you equipping both yourselves and your teams to move beyond the performance?
👍 Please share with your network, especially those ready to lead real change.
For further discussion, listen and subscribe:
Inclusion Bites Podcast
Or reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk
Shorts Video Script
Title for Social Media Post:
How to Go Beyond Performative Inclusion: Real Tips for Workplace Belonging #Inclusion #PsychologicalSafety
Hashtags:
#InclusionBites #WorkplaceCulture #Belonging #PsychologicalSafety #InclusiveLeadership
[Text on screen: “🏳️🌈 Beyond Performative Inclusion: Here’s What Actually Works”]
You know, inclusion isn’t just about having a policy or hosting an awareness event. Real inclusion means everyone in the room feels seen—not just on paper, but genuinely able to show up without masking who they are just to fit in.
[Text on screen: “💡 Actionable Tip 1: Find the Middle Ground”]
Here’s the thing: Inclusion isn’t about demanding everyone meet you exactly where you are. It’s about meeting halfway. Whether it’s pronouncing names, embracing cultural differences, or respecting how others identify, we create bridges by being open to adjustment—without losing our own sense of self.
[Text on screen: “🛡️ Actionable Tip 2: Focus on Psychological Safety”]
Let’s talk psychological safety. People only feel included when they don’t have to hide parts of themselves at work just to survive the day. Leaders—ask yourself, does your environment let people speak honestly, take risks, and feel protected from ridicule or harm? If not, that’s your starting point.
[Text on screen: “❌ Actionable Tip 3: Move Past Performative Gestures”]
Be honest: Is your inclusion strategy just about ticking boxes, or does it actually empower everyone, particularly those who usually feel on the outside? Inclusion is not about “being nice” or “agreeing on everything.” Sometimes it means having tough conversations and holding space for disagreement—safely and respectfully.
[Text on screen: “✅ Actionable Tip 4: It’s Not About Being Right”]
No one gets it perfect. Don’t focus on being right—focus on understanding. If someone calls out your behaviour or language, pause, listen, and reflect. Inclusion is about learning, not cancelling.
[Text on screen: “🏆 Outcome: Environment Where Everyone Thrives”]
When we approach inclusion as a practical, ongoing process—not just performance—everyone, including the so-called “out group,” gets a fair chance to succeed. And that’s when teams thrive.
Thanks for watching! Remember, together we can make a difference. Stay connected, stay inclusive! See you next time. ✨
Glossary of Terms and Phrases
### Specialist Concepts and Phrases from "Beyond Performative Inclusion"
1. **Performative Inclusion**
*Definition:* The act of enacting or showcasing inclusion without comprehensive or substantive change, often to give the outward appearance of inclusivity rather than creating meaningful impact within organisational culture.
2. **Psychological Safety**
*Definition:* A workplace environment where individuals feel secure to express themselves, make mistakes, ask questions, or offer differing opinions without fear of negative consequences to self-image, status, or career.
3. **Bridging Lived Experience with Leadership Insight**
*Definition:* Integrating one's personal, real-world experiences (often from marginalised perspectives) with leadership skills and strategy, to foster authentic and systemic inclusion.
4. **Mission Creep**
*Definition:* The gradual broadening of a project or mission beyond its original goals, particularly referenced here as a phenomenon in inclusion work where objectives become misaligned or lose clarity, leading to tensions and loss of focus.
5. **Affinity Groups**
*Definition:* Groups within organisations formed around a shared identity or characteristic (such as ethnicity, gender, sexuality) to provide support, advocacy, and community for members.
6. **Compassionate Accountability**
*Definition:* An approach where individuals, especially leaders, hold themselves and others accountable for behaviours and actions, but do so with understanding, empathy, and a commitment to shared learning, rather than through punitive measures.
7. **Collective Protections**
*Definition:* Policies, legislation, or codes of conduct designed to safeguard groups—particularly those with protected characteristics—ensuring equal rights, safety, and freedom from harm within workplaces.
8. **Label as a Form of Oppression**
*Definition:* The idea that categorising or labelling individuals (e.g., "homophobic", "racist") can sometimes serve to shut down dialogue or dehumanise, thus perpetuating cycles of exclusion rather than facilitating understanding.
9. **Hertzberg’s Two-Factor Theory**
*Definition:* Referenced when discussing workplace motivators and detractors; the theory posits that certain factors cause job satisfaction (motivators), while a separate set cause dissatisfaction (hygiene factors), with inclusion and psychological safety linked to these foundational hygiene factors.
10. **Desert Island Test (Self-Reflection Thought Experiment)**
*Definition:* A reflective tool used to question whether aspects of identity (like gender or sexuality) retain significance without a surrounding social context; used here to illustrate how identity is often only meaningful in relation to others.
11. **Group Dynamics Perspective**
*Definition:* A theoretical lens that analyses how individuals function in groups, how group members influence each other, and how group identity shapes behaviour and inclusion.
12. **Cancel Culture**
*Definition:* The pervasive culture or practice of withdrawing support for (i.e., 'cancelling') public figures or organisations after they have said or done something considered objectionable or offensive, often referenced in relation to leaders’ fears about engaging with inclusion topics.
13. **Competing Oppression within Marginalised Populations**
*Definition:* The concept that even within marginalised groups, there are hierarchies and competitions regarding whose identity or rights are prioritised, leading to further internal exclusion.
14. **Population vs. Community (in D&I context)**
*Definition:* A reframing suggested in the episode to use 'population' rather than 'community', highlighting that marginalised groups are not necessarily unified by anything beyond shared experiences of oppression; they are diverse in identity and interest.
15. **Compassionate Curiosity**
*Definition:* Approaching conversations and disagreements with a mindset of empathy and genuine interest to understand another’s worldview, even when it sharply diverges from one’s own.
16. **Inclusive Leadership**
*Definition:* A leadership style and practice marked by proactively creating environments where all individuals feel they belong and can contribute, involving conscious effort to dismantle systemic barriers and challenge personal biases.
17. **Out Group**
*Definition:* Members of an organisation or society who are perceived as outside the dominant or favoured group, and therefore most subject to exclusion or marginalisation in everyday interactions and structural policies.
18. **Translation vs. Fitting In**
*Definition:* Differentiated here as the act of 'translating' one's identity for broader understanding (making oneself understood without self-erasure) versus 'fitting in', which may involve suppressing or altering core aspects of oneself to assimilate.SEO Optimised YouTube Content
Focus Keyword:
Beyond Performative Inclusion
Video Title
Beyond Performative Inclusion: Creating Positive People Experiences & True Culture Change | #InclusionBitesPodcast
Tags
Tags: Beyond Performative Inclusion, Inclusion Bites Podcast, culture change, Positive People Experiences, psychological safety, inclusive leadership, workplace inclusion, systemic inclusion, equity in organisations, Sile Walsh, Joanne Lockwood, diversity, belonging at work, DEI, employee experience, leadership development, authentic self at work, workplace equity, people-centred leadership, intersectionality, challenging the status quo, change management, employee engagement, disrupting norms, allyship,
Killer Quote
Killer Quote: "Inclusion isn't about everyone agreeing—it’s about engaging with the out group and finding ways to share space in a way that's not just not harmful, but actually enhancing." – Sile Walsh
Hashtags
Hashtags: #BeyondPerformativeInclusion, #InclusionBitesPodcast, #CultureChange, #PositivePeopleExperiences, #Inclusion, #Leadership, #Equity, #PsychologicalSafety, #PeopleFirst, #DEI, #WorkplaceInclusion, #Allyship, #Belonging, #Authenticity, #SystemicInclusion, #InclusionMatters, #EmployeeExperience, #ChangeMakers, #DisruptingNorms, #SEEChangeHappen
Why Listen
Are you ready to explore what lies beyond performative inclusion and truly spark a culture shift within your organisation? In this energetic episode of the Inclusion Bites Podcast, I—Joanne Lockwood—delve deep into the core of workplace culture, equity, and Positive People Experiences by welcoming the astute Sile Walsh to share their lived experiences, leadership insights, and actionable strategies for sustainable change.
If you're weary of tick-box diversity and surface-level gestures, this conversation is the antidote. Together with Sile, we unpack the pitfalls of performativity in DEI efforts, dissecting why genuine inclusion requires more than policy; it demands authentic human engagement and systemic transformation. Throughout the episode, we revisit the concept of culture change—not as a catchphrase but as a lived reality—showcasing how it underpins both psychological safety and everyday Positive People Experiences for all.
You’ll encounter Sile’s compelling story as someone who has navigated Irish and English cultural dynamics, faced the challenge of adapting their name for others' comfort, and developed an acute appreciation for the nuances of identity, belonging, and the importance of meeting in the middle. Sile’s distinctive approach reframes identity and inclusion, focusing on self-acceptance first and then seeking mutual understanding, rather than demanding adaptation solely from others.
We explore the often uncomfortable terrain of holding space for difference, moving beyond the ‘bring your whole self to work’ mantra to ask: what aspects of ourselves do we, and should we, bring to the table? Sile and I question the expectation for external validation, suggesting that an individual’s relationship with self is paramount, but that meaningful culture change requires collective responsibility—not just inclusion for the few, but an environment where power, narrative, and belonging are dynamically negotiated.
Through candid anecdotes, Sile reveals what it’s like to lead inclusively: why leaders need not know every detail about every person but must instead hone the capacity to work effectively with all. This practical wisdom is interwoven with discussions on how performativity in DEI can backfire—leading to mission creep, misguided virtue signalling, or inadvertently excluding those with differing worldviews.
We confront the tension between activism and organisational realities, and the risks of DEI work becoming a playground for political or personal agendas, rather than fostering Positive People Experiences and adding genuine value to the business. The episode also isn’t afraid of controversy: we shed light on how terms such as ‘homophobic’, ‘transphobic’ or ‘racist’ can sometimes act as conversational handbrakes, and why it’s vital to hold multiple truths and lean into compassionate accountability instead of policing language for the sake of power.
If you’re a people leader, culture builder, or simply passionate about disrupting norms for the better, this is your place to learn what real inclusive leadership and culture change entail. Our discussion, grounded in psychological safety and equity, is peppered with practical tips—such as providing one-to-one confidential spaces for leaders to confront their biases, rather than policing language in public, thus avoiding the chill of cancel culture and creating room for honest reflection and growth.
Why listen? Because to foster a truly inclusive world of work, we must challenge ourselves, question our biases, hold paradoxes, and celebrate difference—not as a threat but as an advantage. Discover how you can create a workplace where everyone has the right to belong, thrive, and contribute—where inclusion is about enhancing, not merely reducing harm.
Tune in for a masterclass in moving Beyond Performative Inclusion and crafting a workplace where Positive People Experiences and meaningful culture change lead the way.
Closing Summary and Call to Action
This episode arms you with a holistic toolkit for moving beyond performative gestures towards impactful inclusion, inspired by Sile Walsh’s grounded expertise and my passion for culture transformation. To reinforce your learning and translate insight into action, here’s a comprehensive breakdown of key takeaways and recommended next steps:
1. Interrogate Intent vs. Impact:
Don’t mistake good intentions or declarative inclusion for genuine impact. Evaluate whether your DEI strategy is translating into lived, Positive People Experiences and not just hollow statements.
2. Prioritise Psychological Safety:
Foster an environment where team members feel heard, respected, and empowered to share their perspectives without fear of retribution or ridicule. Measured culture change starts with this foundational layer.
3. Reframe Leadership Responsibility:
True inclusive leadership isn’t about knowing every nuance of personal identity, but about working effectively with all. Focus on enabling, supporting, and removing barriers for everyone—not just the most vocal or visible minorities.
4. Move Beyond ‘Bring Your Whole Self to Work’:
Acknowledge that expecting everyone to be their ‘full’ selves at work can be counterproductive or even legally problematic. Empower people to show up authentically without pressure to overshare, whilst also maintaining professional boundaries.
5. Centre Equity, Not Just Equality:
Equality isn’t enough if the system requires some to mask or perform. Inclusion is about creating conditions where everyone can thrive in ways that are fair and relevant to their context.
6. Question Performative Practices:
Scrutinise your organisation’s rituals (“let’s state our pronouns every time!”) for signs of performativity. Ask: whom does this benefit? Is it truly advancing culture change, or is it a tick-box exercise that may oppress or alienate?
7. Embrace Culture Change as a Collective Endeavour:
Culture is fluid and negotiated, not dictated. Encourage dialogue—especially with those with whom you disagree—to co-create shared meaning and foster deeper engagement across difference.
8. Nurture Compassionate Accountability:
Hold yourself and others to account with compassion. Encourage open, non-judgemental conversations around difficult topics, and make space for learning from mistakes without resorting to public shaming or cancel culture.
9. Reclaim the Power of Curiosity:
When encountering conflicting opinions, pause the impulse to judge or dismiss. Instead, ask “why do you think that?” and genuinely listen, seeking understanding over conversion.
10. Address the ‘Mission Creep’ Trap:
Keep DEI work tethered to organisational purpose and impact. Avoid straying into activism for its own sake; focus efforts where they make tangible differences to Positive People Experiences and culture.
11. Recognise the Limits of Consensus:
Real inclusion isn’t about making everyone agree; it’s about finding ways to live well together, even amidst paradox or disagreement. Accept difference as a strength, not a problem to be solved.
12. Create Safe Spaces for Leaders to Reflect:
Give leaders confidential opportunities to discuss fears, confusion, or doubts around inclusion. Don’t ambush them in group settings; resolve complexity in safe, one-to-one coaching environments first.
13. Beware Overshadowing Organisational Purpose:
DEI must support, not detract from, organisational goals (e.g., legal compliance, serving customers, sustainable performance). Centre all initiatives on how they contribute to an environment where everyone thrives.
14. Redefine ‘Community’ and ‘Population’:
Resist the notion that minoritised groups are homogenous communities; acknowledge diversity within, and focus on shared experiences of oppression by majority norms rather than absolute consensus.
15. Build Multi-Level Inclusion Strategies:
No single policy or practice offers a panacea. Successful culture change weaves structural, individual, and interpersonal interventions.
16. Hold to Human Rights Principles:
Authentic inclusion is impossible if we deny people the right to their beliefs. Draw the line at harm and discrimination, not thought; work towards co-existence, not forced consensus.
17. Challenge ‘Deplatforming’ and Exclusion by Ideology:
Including only those with whom you agree is the antithesis of inclusion. Be courageous in engaging the ‘out group’—inclusion’s true test.
18. Use Language with Care:
Avoid labels that shut down dialogue. Ask clarifying questions; assume good intent wherever possible.
19. Stay Outcome-Oriented:
Anchor all inclusion work in measurable, meaningful outcomes for people and the business, not just optics or rhetoric.
20. Keep the Momentum Going:
True culture change and Positive People Experiences are journeys, not destinations. Keep questioning, learning, and adapting.
Action:
Reflect on these points. Start a dialogue with your teams about what real inclusion would look like in your organisation. Challenge performative habits. Seek out honest feedback and be prepared to learn—and to unlearn. And share this episode widely; the more voices in the conversation, the greater the chance for real culture change.
Outro
Thank you for tuning in to the Inclusion Bites Podcast. If today’s conversation has sparked curiosity, challenged your thinking, or inspired you to act for meaningful culture change and Positive People Experiences, don’t forget to like, share, and subscribe to the channel.
Learn more about building inclusive cultures and fostering belonging by visiting SEE Change Happen, or dive into more inspiring episodes of the Inclusion Bites Podcast.
Connect, reflect, and continue your journey with us. Your voice, your perspective, and your action truly matter.
Stay curious, stay kind, and stay inclusive - Joanne Lockwood
Root Cause Analyst - Why!
Certainly. Here is a root cause analysis of the key problems discussed in the episode “Beyond Performative Inclusion” on the Inclusion Bites Podcast.
Key Problem 1: Performative Inclusion and the Fractured Reputation of DEI
Why does this problem exist?
Because inclusion initiatives are often surface-level or performative rather than embedded into organisational strategy and everyday leadership.
Why?
Because organisations tend to focus on visible gestures or compliance rather than meaningful, systemic change.Why?
Because leaders and HR practitioners may lack sufficient understanding, practical frameworks, or feel pressured by external activism without tailored strategies for their unique contexts.Why?
Because DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) has sometimes been driven by external voices or lived experience speakers without blending personal narrative with organisational and psychological nuance (Sile Walsh, [00:28:14-00:30:51]).Why?
Because “inclusion” is often marketed and consumed as a one-size-fits-all solution, resulting in the neglect of complex systemic realities, power dynamics, and local legislation.Why?
Because of a lack of joined-up education, weak accountability mechanisms, and limited leadership training that bridges lived experience with systemic insight.
Root Cause:
Superficial approaches to DEI are perpetuated by a lack of strategic leadership education, insufficient integration of personal and organisational perspectives, and a tendency toward “activity” over impact.
Key Problem 2: Polarity, Exclusion within Inclusion, and the Challenge of Genuine Dialogue
Why does this problem exist?
Because inclusion work, intended to bring people together, frequently ends up polarising “in-groups” and “out-groups” and weaponising identity.
Why?
Because much inclusion work prioritises the voices and experiences of those already engaged, sometimes excluding disagreeing voices or those with majority identities (Sile Walsh, [00:32:29-00:33:23]).Why?
Because there is discomfort and fear relating to ‘wrongthink’ or negative labelling (e.g., being called homophobic, racist, transphobic) – shorthand that shuts down, rather than opens, dialogue (Joanne Lockwood, [00:33:23-00:34:21]).Why?
Because cultural and psychological safety are often not sufficiently prioritised in organisational settings, and conversations around difference are not properly facilitated to manage conflict and avoid exclusion (Sile Walsh, [00:46:14-00:48:01]).Why?
Because of an overemphasis on compliance/legal frameworks rather than an enabling environment for diverse perspectives to coexist with accountability.Why?
Because leaders and teams fear real dialogue due to the risk of being ‘cancelled’ and perceive tolerance as ‘putting up with’ rather than an opportunity for exploration (Sile Walsh, [00:57:07-00:58:05]).
Root Cause:
Exclusive inclusion develops due to a culture of fear, unhelpful polarisation, poor facilitation of disagreement, and leadership discomfort with ambiguity or imperfection in the inclusion journey.
Summary of Findings:
Superficial DEI initiatives and the perceived failure of inclusion efforts stem from inadequate education for leaders, overreliance on compliance and lived experience alone, and avoidance of systemic, relational strategies.
“Inclusion” ironically becomes exclusive, as those with less popular identities or opinions are silenced, labelling replaces dialogue, and workplaces default to compliance culture over psychological safety.
Potential Solutions:
Strategic Leadership Education
Equip leaders with both the theoretical and practical tools for inclusive leadership that bridges lived experience with systems thinking (as advocated by Sile Walsh).
Move beyond performative training to experiential, context-specific models where leaders can ask “anything” safely (Sile Walsh, [00:47:04-00:48:01]).
Facilitated Safe Spaces for Honest Dialogue
Design confidential, professionally facilitated settings where leaders and teams can explore difficult questions, air fears, and learn the boundaries of accountability versus agreement (Sile Walsh, [00:45:36-00:49:25]).
Focus on Organisational Purpose and Function
Reframe inclusion as a function of the organisational purpose: psychological safety, productivity, and co-created environments, rather than simply fulfilling a social quota.
Empower Complexity and Nuance
Move away from absolutist, “right-or-wrong” mindsets and instead develop frameworks for accepting complexity and paradox within teams (Joanne Lockwood, [00:53:13-00:53:54]).
Accountability with Compassion
Encourage compassionate accountability: respectfully challenge inappropriate conduct while remaining open to perspective and learning, embedding human rights as the baseline (Sile Walsh, [00:57:07-00:58:05]).
Continuous Collective Learning
Foster a shared journey where disagreement and paradox lead to emergent learning rather than exclusion or division.
Conclusion:
True, sustainable inclusion cannot be achieved through surface gestures or polarising rhetoric. It requires brave, educated, and nuanced leadership; safe, accountable dialogue; and the acceptance that inclusion is not about agreement or being ‘right’ but about creating the conditions for everyone—especially those in the “out group”—to belong and thrive. Only through deep cultural change, purposeful education, and compassion-led accountability can organisations move beyond performative inclusion to genuine, systemic impact.
Canva Slider Checklist
Episode Carousel
Slide 1:
✨ Are you tired of "inclusion" that feels more like a corporate tick-box than real change? ✨
Slide 2:
Too often, inclusion is seen as something for others — but true inclusive leadership is for everyone. It’s not about demanding people come to where you are; it’s about meeting in the middle and co-creating environments where all can thrive.
Slide 3:
What if being “right” is less important than being curious? 🧐
Challenging conversations, conflicting perspectives, and even discomfort can spark breakthroughs when we hold space for honest dialogue and compassionate accountability.
Slide 4:
The real work starts when we include the “out group”, not just those we like or agree with. Inclusion isn’t about everyone thinking the same — it’s about making sure nobody’s left behind, even if we disagree.
Slide 5:
🔥 Ready to go beyond performative inclusion? Listen to the latest episode of Inclusion Bites Podcast now – where bold conversations drive real change.
Tap the link in bio or visit seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen to tune in!
#InclusionBites #RealInclusion #Leadership #Belonging
6 major topics
Beyond Performative Inclusion: Six Essential Themes from My Conversation with Sile Walsh
Meta description: Discover how psychological safety, identity, power, and authentic leadership intersect to create truly inclusive workplace cultures. Joanne Lockwood explores practical and philosophical insights on inclusive leadership with Sile Walsh.
When I sat down with Sile Walsh for Inclusion Bites, our conversation crackled with depth and challenge. Instead of surface-level platitudes, we tackled what genuine inclusive leadership really demands in organisations today. From personal identities shaping our collective cultures to scrutinising the tensions and paradoxes at play in modern workplaces, Sile and I ventured far beyond the basics. Curious about how inclusive leadership is both a practical skill and a philosophical exploration? Let’s unravel six major topics we discussed—and pose a few thought-provoking questions along the way.
1. The Personal Politics of Names and Identity
"Is inclusion always about compromise, or can it also mean mutual translation?"
Our conversation began with the importance of personal identity—names, heritage, and how these details shape how we navigate the world. Sile described the evolution of her own name and the subtle, sometimes frustrating, adjustments required just to be "read" correctly. It struck me: so many of us adapt our identities in small ways, not out of necessity but for mutual understanding.
Curious point: What does it mean for authenticity when our names must be ‘translated’ to fit another culture’s expectations? And how does that translation intersect with belonging and psychological safety in the workplace?
2. Psychological Safety and the Middle Ground in Inclusive Leadership
"Who actually moves first—the individual or the group?"
Sile’s approach to inclusive leadership is grounded in psychological safety. She emphasised meeting others halfway—not insisting they adopt our own norms, but seeking a viable middle ground. I reflected on leaders’ expectations: are they really about fostering environments for everyone, or just expecting conformity?
Curiosity beckons: How can leaders truly measure psychological safety, beyond the usual engagement surveys and feedback forms? And is psychological safety really possible without some degree of personal adjustment?
3. Gender and Sexuality: Beyond Box-Ticking Identity
"What happens to identity when nobody’s watching?"
During our talk, Sile unpacked her own agnostic approach to gender identity, pushing back against rigid categorisations. The only real moments gender and sexuality seemed relevant were those imposed by others. We mused over my "desert island" theory—without others, do these markers even exist?
One for reflection: Are workplaces ready to engage with non-binary, agnostic, or fluid identities without defaulting to stereotypes or forcing labels? And do collective protections (such as policies) go far enough, or are there crucial gaps?
4. Power, Approval and Protection—Seeking Safe Spaces, Not Homogeneity
"Can inclusion progress without tension, or is discomfort essential?"
There’s a fine line between approval and protection in discussions of inclusive culture. Sile raised subtle differences between wanting external validation versus simply needing basic safety. We probed the role of collective protections—legislation, codes of conduct—but also acknowledged human needs for approval.
Curious dilemma: In building inclusive leadership, must collective protections always trump personal desires? And how much discomfort do we need to genuinely progress—does inclusion demand that we lean into, rather than retreat from, tension?
5. Critique of DEI: Performative Inclusion and the Pitfalls of Activism
"Is activism enough, or does real change require more than renaming job titles?"
We delved into the increasingly "bad reputation" surrounding DEI work. Sile noted that while lived experience is invaluable, activism alone often falls short—true inclusive leadership demands practical, organisational change skills, not just personal story-telling. The over-focus on minorities and victim hierarchies can muddy the waters for effective engagement.
Points to ponder: At what stage do lived experience and expertise diverge when influencing organisational change? And has inclusive leadership messaging been co-opted in ways that alienate senior leaders, inadvertently siloing diversity efforts?
6. Navigating Complexity: Perspective-taking, Power, and Paradox
"Can diverse views truly coexist, or does inclusion require consensus?"
One of my favourite avenues of discussion was the challenge of holding paradoxes—how we balance opposing views, navigate polarisation, and embrace complexity. Sile called out workplace "mission creep" and the danger of seeing inclusion as mere ‘niceness’ or blanket agreement. Instead, genuine inclusive leadership is about constructing environments where disagreement enhances, rather than suppresses, performance and safety.
Curiosity lingers: How do we ensure leaders can hold complex, even conflicting, perspectives without defaulting to authoritarian positions? Is it possible to accept, rather than merely ‘tolerate’, the views we don’t like—especially when those views exist within our own affinity groups?
Conclusion: Towards Authentic Inclusive Leadership
My time with Sile reminded me that inclusive leadership isn’t just a buzzword—it’s a dynamic process, a philosophical stance, and a daily negotiation. By asking hard questions about psychological safety, identity, power, and activism, we discovered that inclusion is much more than just the absence of exclusion; it’s presence, engagement, and sometimes tension. How will you show up—not just as a leader, but as a curious human—in the next challenging conversation about belonging and workplace culture? If you’ve got thoughts, reflections, or stories to share, I’m all ears at jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk. Let’s ignite inclusion, one real dialogue at a time.
For more on this and other bold explorations into inclusive leadership, visit Inclusion Bites.
TikTok Summary
Ready to go Beyond Performative Inclusion? 🌈✨ Dive into bold ideas from Inclusion Bites, where we bust myths, tackle real conversations, and rethink what inclusion actually means. Want smart, deep chat that moves past the buzzwords and gets to the heart of what makes people belong? This is your moment.
Catch the full episode with Joanne Lockwood and Sile Walsh for stories, challenges, and no-fluff insights on psychological safety, identity, and real workplace change.
Tap for the full listen 👉 https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen
#InclusionBites #DEI #Belonging #InclusionMatters #PodcastRecs
Slogans and Image Prompts
Certainly! Here are some distinctive slogans, soundbites, and quotes from this episode of Inclusion Bites: "Beyond Performative Inclusion". Each is paired with a highly detailed AI image generation prompt for merchandise, making them memorable, visually desirable, and fitting for advocates of inclusion and psychological safety.
1. “Inclusion means meeting in the middle, not demanding the world bends to us.”
Image Prompt:
A vivid illustration of a diverse group of people reaching out across a wide table, hands meeting in the centre. The background subtly blends global landmarks (Big Ben, Eiffel Tower, Dublin’s Spire) to represent different cultures. Sunlight breaks through clouds above, symbolising hope and unity. The text is handwritten, bold, and sits above the centre handshake.
2. “Let’s amplify the voices that matter.”
Image Prompt:
A dynamic collage of megaphones, vibrant and colourful, emerging from a crowd of varied, smiling people. Sound waves ripple outwards, transforming into speech bubbles and musical notes. The words curve confidently at the top, as if spoken by the illustration.
3. “Bring your appropriate self to work.”
Image Prompt:
A warmly lit office setting, with four figures at a round table, each with subtle markers of personality (rainbow scarf, cultural hat, wheelchair, gender-fluid fashion), all smiling and working harmoniously. The slogan is neatly printed on a paper coffee cup in the foreground, with gentle rays highlighting the phrase.
4. “Curiosity before criticism.”
Image Prompt:
A minimal but striking line-art print. A hand holding a magnifying glass, leaning curiously toward a tangled knot, with another open palm underneath in support. The phrase appears in playful looped letters beneath, with small question marks hinting from the glass.
5. “Labels are for understanding, not for boxing people in.”
Image Prompt:
A pile of colourful, oversized sticky name labels on a table, some half-peeled with handwritten identities (e.g., ‘leader’, ‘ally’, ‘advocate’). Around the table, diverse faces look upward, smiling, as butterflies emerge from one of the labels, symbolising transformation and freedom.
6. “Inclusion Bites: One bold conversation at a time.”
(For show branding)
Image Prompt:
A podcast microphone at the centre, surrounded by comic-style speech bubbles in bright, contrasting colours. Each bubble contains an icon of inclusivity: a heart, globe, handshake, and multi-flag circle. The show title wraps confidently around the bubbles, giving a lively, inviting vibe.
7. “Compassionate accountability: You got to your beliefs the same way I got to mine.”
Image Prompt:
A well-balanced set of vintage gold scales, with one side holding a heart and the other a thoughtful brain. Behind, two mirrored faces (different ages, genders, ethnicities) reflect calm and openness. The phrase flows on a ribbon woven between the scales.
8. “If it’s just people you like, that’s not inclusion.”
Image Prompt:
A crowd scene, some figures shaded in soft pastel tones, others in bright, stand-out colours. A spotlight highlights an individual looking outwards with a welcoming gesture, surrounded by a mosaic of unique faces. The phrase appears on the base, strong and unmissable.
9. “Challenge, inspire, unite.”
(Hashtag: #ChallengeInspireUnite)
Image Prompt:
Three climbing figures help each other up a mountain, the summit wrapped in a bright inclusion flag. Each climber is visually distinct in dress and appearance. The phrase sits on the sun’s beam behind the top climber.
10. “Human first. Labels later.”
Image Prompt:
Two hands, one dark-skinned, one light, clasping across a name badge, which gently fades at the edges. The background: soft watercolours merge into one another, hinting at humanity blending beyond categorisation. The slogan in calm, modern calligraphy beneath.
For hashtags, consider:
#InclusionBites
#BeyondPerformative
#CuriosityBeforeCriticism
#CompassionateAccountability
#HumanFirst
#MeetInTheMiddle
#ChallengeInspireUnite
Each prompt deliberately puts the focus on acceptance, humanity, and the rich nuance of inclusion, ready to be turned into standout merchandise guaranteed to provoke thought and spark connection!
Inclusion Bites Spotlight
This month’s featured episode, “Beyond Performative Inclusion,” brings thought-provoking depth to The Inclusion Bites Podcast. Sile Walsh, joined by our host Joanne Lockwood, explores the very heart of what it means to go further than surface-level gestures and move towards genuine, systemic inclusion in leadership and organisational culture.
A celebrated coach, author, and leadership specialist, Sile Walsh bridges lived experience with leadership insight—inviting us to question: Where does authentic belonging truly begin? Throughout the conversation, Sile challenges us to move past the shallow waters of “performative” action, encouraging leaders to foster environments where psychological safety is not an afterthought but foundational. The interplay between identity, heritage, and inclusion is brought to life through Sile’s frank discussion of cultural adaptation, personal values, and the ever-present dilemma of fitting in versus translating identity.
The episode is unafraid to interrogate complexity: Joanne and Sile unpack the tensions around “bringing your whole self to work,” examine the ethics of competing truths, and reveal how genuine inclusive leadership requires more than positive intent—it necessitates a skillset built on mutual accountability, curiosity, and the courage to engage across perspectives.
By situating inclusion not as nicety, but as an organisational imperative, this episode calls upon us all—not only HR professionals and D&I champions, but every leader and team member—to reflect on the careful balance between collective safety and individual authenticity.
For those seeking robust guidance, honest conversation, and actionable insight into the ongoing work of meaningful inclusion, “Beyond Performative Inclusion” offers both inspiration and practical challenge. Listen, reflect, and join Joanne and Sile as they light the way towards more psychologically safe, equitable workplaces—where belonging is realised, not just performed.
Listen to the episode: Inclusion Bites Podcast – Beyond Performative Inclusion.
Want to share your story or reflections? Email jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk and join the conversation.
YouTube Description
YouTube Description
What if everything you think you know about workplace inclusion is just a comfortable illusion? In this episode of Inclusion Bites, "Beyond Performative Inclusion," Joanne Lockwood dives headfirst into the complexities and contradictions of truly inclusive leadership with award-winning coach Sile Walsh. Together, they shatter the myth that inclusion simply means being "nice" or ticking diversity boxes.
Discover the invisible power dynamics at play when we ask people to bring their “whole selves” to work. Through candid storytelling and critical dialogue, you'll hear how real psychological safety is only achieved when organisations move past policing language and focus on co-creating environments where everyone—not just the agreeable in-group—can thrive. Expect revelations about the dangers of performative DEI, the pitfalls of identity politics, and practical strategies for curating cultures of genuine belonging.
Key Takeaways & Actions:
Challenge your own assumptions: Inclusion isn’t about agreement, it’s about creating secure environments for difference.
Recognise that performative gestures without structural change can harm more than help.
Embrace the discomfort of diverse viewpoints and seek to understand “the why” behind opposing perspectives.
Prioritise impact over intent—focus on how your leadership style and organisational policies actively reduce harm, not just how they look.
Encourage nuanced conversations in your workplace—leaders must be equipped to navigate vulnerability, uncertainty, and difference.
Understand that bringing your “whole self” to work doesn’t mean abandoning professional boundaries, but rather, not having to hide who you are to survive.
Listening to this conversation will make you rethink what it means to truly include, not just tolerate, those unlike yourself—and consider how you can act differently to create systemic change, not just surface harmony.
Share your reflections and join the conversation. What uncomfortable truths are you willing to face for the sake of authentic inclusion?
#InclusionBites #InclusiveLeadership #Belonging #PsychologicalSafety #AuthenticInclusion #BeyondDEI #ChallengingConversations #LeadershipDevelopment #HumanRightsAtWork #SEEChangeHappen
🎧 Listen to more game-changing discussions at: https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen
📩 Reach out: jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk
—
By tuning in, you’ll leave better equipped to ignite real change—in how you think, feel, and lead.
10 Question Quiz
Quiz: Beyond Performative Inclusion — Insights from the Host
1. According to Joanne Lockwood, what is one motivation for fostering inclusion in organisational settings?
A) To guarantee all leaders agree
B) To enable a greater appreciation of global cultures and values
C) Only to satisfy compliance requirements
D) To replicate competitive advantage
2. What stance does Joanne Lockwood take on the idea of “bringing your whole self to work”?
A) Everyone should always bring their entire authentic self, without restriction
B) Certain elements of ourselves, such as deeply personal matters, should always be shared
C) It’s context-dependent—what’s relevant and appropriate should be shared, not everything
D) Leaders must never discuss their personal experiences at work
3. What does Joanne Lockwood describe as a potential pitfall for leaders engaging with inclusion?
A) Their only concern is profitability
B) They are resistant to compliance
C) They become paralysed by fear of being wrong or “cancelled”
D) They effortlessly achieve buy-in from their teams
4. In the analogy of the “desert island,” what does Joanne Lockwood suggest about identity?
A) Identities such as gender and sexuality are intrinsically relevant at all times
B) One’s identity is only relevant in relation to others
C) Survival instincts eliminate all sense of identity
D) Names always retain meaning regardless of setting
5. How does Joanne Lockwood reframe the challenge of having different perspectives in the workplace?
A) By eliminating all dissent
B) By holding space for opposing views and encouraging dialogue
C) By discouraging discussion
D) By prioritising the majority view without question
6. What concern does Joanne Lockwood raise regarding the current state of DEI (Diversity, Equity & Inclusion)?
A) DEI is universally celebrated
B) DEI’s reputation is suffering from misunderstanding and ineffective strategies
C) DEI focuses exclusively on majority groups
D) DEI overemphasises legal compliance at the cost of people
7. What does Joanne Lockwood believe about the effort involved in creating an inclusive environment?
A) It simply requires writing policy
B) It happens automatically if employees are paid well
C) It demands ongoing work to create environments where people feel safe, secure, and valued
D) It is solely the HR department’s responsibility
8. When discussing the relative cultural context of terms and language (such as “love,” “mate,” or “duck”), what does Joanne Lockwood highlight?
A) Such language is universally offensive
B) The meaning and impact of language is always contextual
C) The use of casual terms should be banned
D) There is an international standard for acceptable terms
9. According to Joanne Lockwood, how should leaders respond to being challenged as ‘-phobic’ (e.g., homophobic, racist)?
A) Retreat from discussion immediately
B) Insist on their innocence
C) Ask how so, listen, and reflect
D) Dismiss it as irrelevant
10. How does Joanne Lockwood propose that people open up productive conversations across difference?
A) Only speak to those who already agree
B) Share perspectives openly and ask “why” questions to understand others
C) Insist on total consensus
D) Avoid difficult subjects altogether
Answer Key with Rationale
B – Joanne Lockwood explains that inclusion work involves deep appreciation of global cultures and values rooted in one’s experiences rather than just box-ticking compliance.
C – She clarifies that “bringing your whole self” is context-dependent, not an absolute; relevant and appropriate parts are encouraged while certain aspects may remain private.
C – A recurring theme is leaders’ fear of “being wrong” or cancelled, which paralyses authentic action.
B – Through the desert island analogy, she reveals identity has no significance without others; it is relational, not absolute.
B – Joanne Lockwood spotlights holding space for differing perspectives and continued dialogue, even without agreement.
B – Joanne Lockwood speaks on DEI’s damaged reputation, citing misunderstandings and poorly executed strategies.
C – She strongly argues that inclusion is ongoing cultural work, focused on safety, security, and value, not a box-ticking task.
B – She uses examples like “love” or “mate” to show meaning is always contextual, shaped by cultural norms and relationships.
C – She advises leaders, when challenged, to ask “how so,” listen openly and reflect, rather than react defensively or dismissively.
B – Joanne Lockwood advocates sharing perspectives, posing “why” questions, and seeking understanding as a productive path.
Summary Paragraph
Drawing on Joanne Lockwood’s insights, it's clear that moving “Beyond Performative Inclusion” means more than compliance or slogans. She emphasises the importance of genuinely appreciating global cultures and the diverse histories they bring. Inclusion should be context-dependent, with individuals sharing what’s appropriate rather than feeling pressured to reveal their entire selves. A looming pitfall for leaders is the fear of making mistakes or “being cancelled”, which can inhibit genuine engagement. Identity, as she illustrates with the desert island analogy, is relational and only assumes meaning in interaction with others. Joanne Lockwood stresses maintaining open dialogue, holding space for differing perspectives, and resisting the urge to eliminate difference. She identifies current misunderstandings as a source of DEI’s tarnished reputation and insists that inclusion is an ongoing commitment to safety and belonging. Language and meaning are fluid, depending on context, and leaders must engage reflectively when challenged, always seeking to understand rather than defend. Ultimately, inclusion flourishes when people share, question, and seek to understand one another, building environments where everyone can thrive.
Rhyme Scheme and Rhythm Podcast Poetry
Beyond the Surface: The Rhythm of Real Inclusion
Names pronounced and cultures crossed,
A world defined by lines once tossed—
Through accents shaped by East and West,
We learn identity’s never at rest.
To bridge the gap, to translate self,
We shelf the urge to mimic stealth;
Authenticity—held quietly near—
Yet meeting in the middle makes connection clear.
Power and privilege, a balancing act,
Shaped by boardrooms, policies, and the tact
Of leaders learning not just to lead,
But to understand what all truly need.
Bring not your “whole self”—that’s misunderstood—
But the parts you choose, as anyone could.
Let safety be more than a word-professed,
Let value and voice be truthfully addressed.
Right and wrong, we fiercely defend,
Yet true inclusion means to comprehend
Another’s why, a context unseen,
To create more than an echo of the mainstream.
For belonging is built, not just declared—
Across boundaries, discomfort is shared.
Harm reduction’s the call, not perfect accord:
Human rights shape how fairness is restored.
From tolerance to empathy, with each respectful stance,
We ask, “What if I truly gave another a chance?”
To move beyond silos, to question, to learn,
Let differences spark rather than burn.
So share these verses—bring friends to the fold,
Reflect, subscribe, let new thoughts unfold.
With thanks to Sile Walsh for a fascinating podcast episode.
Key Learnings
Key Learning & Takeaway from “Beyond Performative Inclusion”
This episode underscores that true inclusion goes far beyond tick-box diversity exercises or performative gestures. Genuine inclusion demands that individuals and organisations cultivate environments where all people—not only those deemed ‘acceptable’—can interact safely, contribute authentically, and thrive without fear of harm or erasure. Importantly, the discussion reframes inclusion not as a demand for universal agreement or likability, but as a commitment to compassionate accountability, tolerance, and the co-existence of multiple perspectives, especially amidst discomfort or difference.
Point #1: Inclusion Means Co-creating Safe, Enabling Environments
Joanne Lockwood and Sile Walsh both point out that inclusion is fundamentally about shaping workplaces where people do not feel compelled to mask vital aspects of themselves just to survive. Leaders should focus less on trying to ‘fix’ individuals, and more on removing organisational barriers—embedding psychological safety and equity, so everyone can contribute and succeed.
Point #2: Agreeing is Not a Prerequisite for Inclusion
The conversation challenges the assumption that being inclusive requires everyone to agree or become like-minded. As Sile Walsh emphasises, diversity is about holding space for differences—even those we strongly disagree with—so long as these do not manifest as harm or active discrimination. It’s about respectful co-existence, not enforced harmony.
Point #3: Beware Performative or Simplistic DEI Practices
Both discussants warn against DEI efforts that promise instant impact without grappling with underlying complexities. Performative actions—such as focusing solely on visible minorities or compelling people to ‘bring their whole self’ with no nuance—risk alienating, rather than including. Sustainable inclusion is iterative, context-aware, and rooted in ongoing dialogue and learning.
Point #4: Tolerance Isn’t the Destination—Compassionate Accountability Is
While tolerance is a first step when beliefs or backgrounds feel in conflict, the episode advocates moving beyond mere tolerance towards compassionate accountability. Joanne Lockwood and Sile Walsh encourage confronting one’s own biases, engaging with conflicting perspectives, and striving for solutions that reduce harm and support everyone—not only those we agree with or ‘like’. Inclusion, done well, must engage the so-called ‘out group’ as well as the ‘in group’.
These takeaways collectively stress that the real work of inclusion is about creating environments where differences are not merely endured, but thoughtfully engaged—pushing us all “beyond performative inclusion”.
Book Outline
Certainly. Here’s a highly structured, publisher-grade book outline based on the guest’s contributions in the Inclusion Bites Podcast episode, “Beyond Performative Inclusion.” The following outline captures the essence, nuance, and depth of the guest’s insights, transforming conversational content into a reader-focused, coherent framework for a book. All content exclusively represents the guest’s perspectives and experiences.
WORKING TITLE SUGGESTIONS
Beyond Boxes: Real Inclusion for Real Organisations
Meeting in the Middle: Rethinking Authenticity, Identity and Inclusive Leadership
Inclusive Leadership Unpacked: Bridging Identity, Power, and Belonging
The Complexity of Inclusion: Moving Past Performance
Human First: Navigating Inclusion, Identity, and Organisational Change
FULL BOOK OUTLINE
Introduction
Purpose and Scope
Unpacking the lived experience behind the headline of “inclusion”
Moving beyond surface-level or performative gestures to deep, practical organisational change
Personal Motivation
Intersections of identity, background, and the drive to embed psychological safety, equity, and belonging in workplaces
Chapter 1: The Language of Identity – Names, Culture, and Authenticity
Subheadings:
The Significance of Names: Between Heritage and Adaptation
Translating Identity across Borders and Organisations
The Emotional and Societal Weight of ‘Fitting in’
The Power of Self-Definition vs. External Validation
Chapter Summary:
Explores how names and cultural markers act as conduits of both belonging and exclusion. Discusses the complexities of adapting identity for ease versus holding fast to heritage, using personal anecdotes (e.g., name pronunciation, family history).
Example/Quote:
"My name—it's so much more than what anyone would ever conceive anyway. But I carry that meaning, regardless of how others perceive or pronounce it."
Interactive Element:
Reflection exercise: What does your name represent for you, and how (if at all) have you adapted it?
Suggested Visual:
Timeline or diagram mapping life across different cultures/contexts.
Chapter 2: Coming Home to Oneself – Belonging, Outsider Status, and Hybrid Identities
Subheadings:
The Dynamics of Outgroup and Ingroup Experiences
Experiencing Exclusion in Multiple Communities
Liminality — Never ‘Irish Enough’, Never ‘English Enough’
How Food, Accent, and Upbringing Shape Inclusion
Chapter Summary:
Delves into hybrid identities and cultural displacement, exploring how formative experiences—such as living in diasporic communities or between nations—shape the sense of home and self. Considers how even perceived “small” markers like lunch choices can make one feel othered.
Example/Quote:
"Even my family couldn’t always place me, because my accent was neither obviously Irish nor English. There's a subtle sense of never quite being enough, or belonging."
Interactive Element:
Identity collage exercise: Invite readers to collage or journal about the cultural influences that have shaped their sense of self.
Chapter 3: Self, Society, and the Relativity of Labels
Subheadings:
Gender and Sexuality as Social Constructs: When Does It Matter?
Pronouns for Others’ Comfort, Not Mine
The Desert Island Thought Experiment: Who Am I without an Audience?
Why Labels Should Serve Connection, Not Containment
Chapter Summary:
Questions the importance of identity labels, asking when and whether these categories are relevant. Explores reframing gender and sexuality as social constructs — only made pressing in relation to social interaction or external gaze, rather than innate experience.
Example/Quote:
"The only time my gender is relevant: when someone else needs to decide how to interact with me. I don't wake up ‘feeling’ female or not; that's outside-in thinking."
Suggested Visual:
Venn diagram of self-perception vs. external perception.
Reflection Question:
When have you felt boxed in (or liberated) by the labels others use for you?
Chapter 4: Inclusion Misunderstood – Pitfalls, Tokenism, and Performative Activism
Subheadings:
When Diversity Initiatives Falter: Mixing Activism with Organisational Change
The Market for Lived Experience and the Problem with One-Story Experts
Who Is Inclusion ‘For’? Redressing Power, Not Playing Favourites
The Dangers of Mission Creep and Cancel Culture
Chapter Summary:
Looks critically at where and why diversity and inclusion efforts often go wrong, including hiring for identity without expertise, and the confusion between political activism and sustainable organisational transformation. Unpacks the unintended consequences, such as exclusion of the so-called “majority” or dissenting voices, and the fear-driven silence of leaders.
Example/Quote:
"Inclusion isn’t about being nice, or about the minority dominating the agenda. It’s about structuring the whole system for all—including the outgroup, not just those we already like."
Case Study/Scenario:
Contrast a ‘tick-box’ diversity training with a comprehensive inclusive leadership initiative.
Interactive Element:
Reflection: Have you experienced or witnessed ‘performative’ inclusion? What was the impact?
Chapter 5: Navigating Power and Human Rights – The Lines between Belief and Harm
Subheadings:
The Right to Hold (Unpopular) Views vs. The Right not to be Harmed
Human Rights, Legislation, and Organisational Boundaries
Compassionate Accountability: Holding Space for Difference without Doing Harm
Beyond Tolerance – Towards Acceptance and Collaboration
Chapter Summary:
Differentiates between validating all perspectives and sanctioning harmful behaviour. Argues for a principled basis of inclusion rooted in human rights and legal protection, not groupthink or enforced conformity. Highlights the importance of power analysis—both in societal context and within workplace hierarchies.
Example/Quote:
"I believe people have the right to believe homophobic things—they do not have the right to discriminate, or to harm others at work."
Suggested Visual:
Flowchart showing boundaries of belief, expression, and discrimination.
Interactive Element:
Scenario discussion—how should a leader respond to contested, strongly-held employee beliefs?
Chapter 6: Building Inclusive Leadership – From Theory to Everyday Practice
Subheadings:
Reframing Leadership: It’s Not about Knowing Everyone, It’s about Working with Everyone
Psychological Safety and the Environment as Performance Levers
The Role of Organisational Culture, not Just Policy
Facilitating Difficult Conversations: Confidential Spaces, Reflection, and Repair
Chapter Summary:
Articulates a practical vision for inclusion grounded in leadership behaviour, systemic thinking, and the everyday environment. Offers examples of how to shift from blanket edicts to individual conversations, moving from risk of “being wrong” towards trust, dialogue, and ongoing development.
Example/Quote:
"I tell leaders: you don’t have to agree—focus on enabling your people to thrive. Most want not to be right, but not to be wrong, not to be cancelled for a misstep."
Case Study/Scenario:
One-to-one leadership coaching to surface honest concerns and confusions, versus group ‘naming and shaming’ approaches.
Interactive Element:
Action steps for enabling psychological safety in your own team.
Chapter 7: Inclusion’s Complexity – Identity, Intersectionality, and Intragroup Exclusion
Subheadings:
Population, Not Community – The Myth of Homogeneity in Minority Groups
Intersectional Tensions: When Minorities Collide
Beyond Monolithic Narratives: Valuing the Multi-Layered Self
Practical Ways of Embracing Paradox and Multiple Truths
Chapter Summary:
Unpacks complexity within LGBTQ+ populations (and other marginalised groups), critiquing ideas of a single “community.” Explains how exclusion often happens most fiercely within in-groups, and champions the need for intersectional, human-centred approaches.
Example/Quote:
"The most exclusion I have ever felt was within my so-called ‘own’ community. That tells you inclusion is about power and humanity, not neat categories."
Suggested Visual:
Intersectionality map—showing overlapping systems of advantage and disadvantage.
Interactive Element:
Prompt: Where have you felt most "in"—and most "out"—in your own identity populations?
Chapter 8: Towards a Human-Centred Future – Process, Progress, and Peace
Subheadings:
Learning from Global Conflict: When Being Right Doesn’t Save Lives
The Fragile Power of Peace (Lessons from Ireland)
Why Process and Dialogue Matter More Than Agreement
Sustaining Inclusion: Continuous Reflection, Feedback, and Growth
Chapter Summary:
Links organisational inclusion work to broader societal questions—examining polarisation, the search for truth, and the imperative for peace processes. Emphasises the role of continual dialogue, reflexivity, and humble process over final answers.
Example/Quote:
"If anyone holds hate for others, it’s because they can’t process it about themselves. Our job is not perpetual rightness—it’s to stop harm where we find it, and build peace where we can."
Interactive Element:
Long-term reflection: What process or practice can you commit to, to support inclusion in your world?
Conclusion: Beyond Performative Inclusion
Summary of Main Insights
Emphasis on meeting others ‘in the middle,’ on shaping spaces rather than merely enforcing rules
Practical Next Steps
Guidelines for readers to create sustainable inclusion in their contexts
Call to Action
Invitation to ongoing learning, honest dialogue, and engagement with others’ stories
Encouragement to seek deeper understanding than performative gestures
Suggestions for Supplementary Content
Visual Aids
Identity and power mapping diagrams
Inclusion process flowcharts
Intersectionality visual maps
Exercises and Discussion Prompts
Identity reflection, scenario walkthroughs, team discussion points
Further Reading / Resources
Human rights frameworks, leading academic texts, links to key organisations
Chapter Summaries (Brief)
The Language of Identity: Navigating cultural markers and the meaning of authenticity.
Coming Home to Oneself: Exploring belonging, outsider status, and cultural displacement.
Self, Society, and Labels: Rethinking the role and relevance of identity labels.
Inclusion Misunderstood: Critically assessing common inclusion pitfalls and errors.
Power and Human Rights: Drawing the line between belief and discriminatory practice.
Building Inclusive Leadership: Bringing inclusion strategy into practical leadership.
Inclusion’s Complexity: Addressing intersectionality and intragroup exclusion.
Towards a Human-Centred Future: Connecting inclusion to peace, process, and humility.
Review and Refinement Process
Initial Review: Present this outline to subject-matter experts in inclusion and organisational psychology for feedback.
Pilot Discussion: Engage test readers from HR and leadership audiences to ensure clarity and applicability.
Ongoing Feedback: Amend structure or content based on pilot feedback, ensuring an accessible, nuanced reader experience.
OVERARCHING MESSAGE
Real inclusion exists not in performative statements or box-ticking, but in the courageous, humble act of meeting one another in the middle—valuing personhood, difference, and dialogue over dogma.
This outline is suitable for a practical business book, leadership manual, or contemporary social science text that both challenges and empowers organisational and individual transformation.
Maxims to live by…
Maxims for Moving Beyond Performative Inclusion
Meet Others Halfway: True inclusion is found when we each step towards one another, seeking common ground rather than demanding conformity to our own norms.
Honour Lived Experiences, But Seek Understanding: Share your own narrative without insisting that others see the world exactly as you do.
Identity Is Multifaceted and Self-Determined: Value your relationship with your own identity above external validation—let others do the same.
Labels Are Tools, Not Definitions: Use labels and categories to improve mutual understanding, not to restrict or diminish individuality.
Prioritise Curiosity Over Judgement: Approach different perspectives with a genuine desire to learn, not to validate your own preconceptions.
Respect the Boundaries of Belonging: Not every aspect of yourself is for every environment. Bring what serves your collective and professional purpose; leave the rest for appropriate spaces.
Accountability with Compassion: Hold yourself and others accountable, but always with empathy and an openness to each person’s journey.
Inclusion Serves Everyone: Inclusion is not reserved for the few or the marginalised; it is about creating systems and cultures where all can thrive.
Disagreement Isn’t Exclusion: Diverse opinion is the heart of real inclusion. Seek understanding over consensus, and challenge ideas rather than dismissing individuals.
Power Should Be Used Responsibly: Be continually aware of dynamics of power and privilege. Avoid using your views as a bludgeon but as an invitation to collective progress.
Seek Environments, Not Uniformity: Strive to shape cultures and systems that allow varied identities to flourish, rather than insisting on the same experience for all.
Process Before Approval: Work on your self-acceptance internally so you do not become reliant on external approval for your sense of identity or worth.
Never Conflate Protection with Popularity: Legal and structural protections must focus on preventing harm, not on demanding popularity, agreement, or comfort.
Transcend Tolerance: Tolerance may be necessary at first, but the true aim is acceptance without conditions.
Mistakes Are Inevitable—Stay Open: In complex spaces, errors and misunderstandings will happen. Respond with humility and the willingness to learn.
Human Rights Are Universal: Belief and freedom of thought must be respected, provided they are not used as vehicles for harm.
Inclusion Is Not Being “Nice”: Sometimes inclusion requires difficult or unpopular decisions, and it always requires rigour alongside kindness.
Authenticity is Relative: What you reveal of your authentic self depends on context; discernment is not shame.
Understand Before You Disagree: Invest time in understanding why someone holds a view before having to position yourself in opposition.
Find Shared Purpose: Collective success is built on creating spaces where each person can contribute, belong, and be respected, however different their journey.
Let these principles inform your actions—beyond performance, towards transformative inclusion.
Extended YouTube Description
YouTube Video Description: Beyond Performative Inclusion | Sile Walsh & Joanne Lockwood | Authentic Inclusive Leadership & Psychological Safety
Timestamps for Easy Navigation
00:00 – Introduction: The Power of Names & Belonging
04:41 – Psychological Safety and Meeting People Halfway
12:26 – Gender, Identity, and Authenticity: A Personal Journey
18:59 – Self-Concepts & Relativity of Gender/Sexuality
21:21 – Understanding Inclusion's Role in Organisational Life
28:14 – Why DEI Has a Bad Name: Pitfalls & Realities
33:23 – Labels, Human Rights, and Productive Dialogue
39:03 – Global Conflicts, Power, and Leadership Lessons
44:43 – Bringing "Yourself" to Work: Leadership Realities
51:00 – Misunderstandings & Contexts in Inclusive Dialogue
55:59 – In-Groups, Exclusion, and Real Inclusion
1:02:09 – Connecting Lived Experience to Broader Context
1:03:48 – Final Thoughts & Connect with Us
Comprehensive Description (Keyword-Rich for SEOs)
Welcome to this thought-provoking episode of Inclusion Bites Podcast: Beyond Performative Inclusion with host Joanne Lockwood and special guest Sile Walsh, renowned coach, author, and expert in inclusive leadership and psychological safety. If you’re passionate about building genuine diversity and inclusion in the workplace, want to know how to avoid the pitfalls of performative DEI, or you lead teams in HR or organisational development, this conversation is essential viewing.
Explore how authentic inclusive leadership goes far beyond box-ticking exercises and diversity quotas. Sile shares how her lived experience—navigating Irish and English identity, adaptive naming, and gender agnosticism—shapes her approach to inclusion, belonging, and equity. You’ll hear discussions on why psychological safety is the cornerstone of organisational culture, how to create environments where people feel they can succeed, and why "bringing your whole self to work" must be more than a slogan.
Key takeaways include:
De-mystifying Inclusive Leadership: Learn practical ways leaders can facilitate safe, high-performing teams without falling into the trap of surface-level inclusion.
Understanding Power Dynamics: How real inclusion means being willing to meet others halfway, and why just demanding others assimilate rarely works.
Societal Contexts and Organisational Reality: What DEI professionals, HR managers, and business leaders need to know about the current state of diversity, equity, and inclusion, and why certain strategies may be failing.
Balancing Beliefs and Boundaries: Thoughtful insights on holding multiple perspectives, why true inclusion involves the 'out-group', and handling divisive or controversial topics in the workplace with compassion and accountability.
Actionable Strategies: How leaders can privately and safely learn, make mistakes, and grow in confidence, creating environments where everyone—regardless of identity label—can truly thrive.
If you are an HR professional, D&I specialist, business leader, or change-maker committed to moving beyond performative inclusion to genuine systemic change, this episode offers direct, actionable insights.
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Unlock strategies for building workplaces where everyone truly thrives—watch now and ignite genuine inclusion.
Substack Post
Beyond Box-Ticking: A Deeper Dive into Performative Inclusion
Why is it that so many organisations proclaim inclusion whilst change remains elusive, surface-level, or downright performative? As someone who’s spent years championing truly inclusive cultures, I’ve found that the greatest gap is not in intention, but in genuine, system-wide action. This week’s episode of the Inclusion Bites Podcast is my invitation for you to step away from box-ticking initiatives and journey toward an authentically inclusive workplace.
Join me as I sit down with the inspirational Sile Walsh, an award-winning coach, author, and specialist in embedding equity and psychological safety into leadership practice. Together, we unpick how “inclusion” has become misappropriated, why performative gestures fall short, and what it truly takes to nurture an organisational culture where everyone can thrive.
The Heart of Inclusion: Meeting at the Middle
In Episode 192, aptly titled “Beyond Performative Inclusion,” I set out with Sile Walsh to explore the nuance and complexity at the centre of organisational belonging. Our discussion is especially timely for HR professionals, DEI leaders, Talent and Recruitment strategists, and Organisational Development specialists grappling with the messy realities of culture change.
We begin with an honest investigation into identity—how names, backgrounds, and lived experiences make us who we are. Sile, whose Irish heritage has shaped her sense of self, describes the pressures many face to adapt or “translate” their identities to fit dominant workplace norms. Our talk swiftly widens to examine how psychological safety (or the lack of it) directly steers whether people simply turn up or truly belong.
A theme that resonated throughout: performative inclusion is not only unsustainable but can, ironically, deepen divisions. As leaders, how often do we tick the “diversity” box while neglecting the deeper work needed to shift mindsets and dismantle barriers?
Lessons from Lived Experience: Sile Walsh’s Unique Lens
Sile Walsh brings more than expertise; she brings authenticity grounded in lived intersectional experience. From negotiating identity as a culturally Irish person with an accent that “never quite fits” to navigating labels (or rejecting them altogether) in gender and sexuality, Sile encourages us to interrogate our assumptions and expand our sense of what belonging means.
Their approach asks: How can leaders move past binary thinking? And how do our own fixed ideas of “right” and “wrong” become yet another barrier to true inclusion?
Practical Takeaways You Can Put into Practice
Here are several practical pearls of wisdom from my conversation with Sile—insights that you can adopt straight away to foster genuine inclusion in your own professional circles:
Move Beyond Performative Gestures
Don’t stop at representation or token initiatives. True inclusion is cultivated when leaders prioritise systemic change, challenge the status quo, and actively listen to lived experiences—especially those that may differ from their own.Create Space for Nuanced Identities
Recognise that identity is complex and personal. Instead of forcing individuals to conform to “acceptable” versions of themselves, build environments where people feel safe to show up in ways that are fully authentic—yet appropriate to context.Equip Leaders with Psychological Safety Tools
Sile emphasised the need for leaders to do their inner work before they can lead inclusively. This means creating confidential spaces for leaders to process fears, ask difficult questions, and reflect—well before they engage publicly or enact policy.Focus on Equity, Not Just Equality
Inclusion is not about treating everyone the same; it’s about making tailored adjustments so everyone can succeed. Facilitating open dialogue, making space for differing needs, and rethinking performance environments are all crucial steps.Challenge the Urge to Be “Right”
Polarisation often arises from the desire to be “right”—and in turn, to silence or “cancel” opposing viewpoints. Instead, Sile urges us to stay curious, ask “how so?”, and move towards compassionate accountability. The question is not “Who’s right?” but “How can we move forward together?”
A Window Into Our Conversation
Curious for a taste of the episode’s richness? Watch this exclusive 60-second audiogram to let Sile’s reflections on cultural identity and inclusion spark your thinking. You’ll hear directly about the tension between fitting in and staying true to oneself—a real treat for those pondering their own journeys.
Watch the one-minute highlight now and glimpse what’s possible when we open a space for honest, uncomfortable, and ultimately transformative dialogue.
Listen and Share: Join the Movement
Ready to go further? The complete episode is brimming with stories, hard-earned insights, and actionable ideas that can help you move from theory to practice. Whether you’re seeking to drive lasting organisational change, empower your leadership, or simply open your mind, this is the conversation for you.
🎧 Listen to the full episode here
As always, I encourage you to share this conversation with colleagues, ERG networks, and anyone wanting to break the cycle of performative inclusion. Let’s keep widening the circle of belonging.
Your Organisational Challenge
Reflect for a moment: In your own organisation, are you creating a climate of surface-level compliance, or are you stepping into the challenging, but necessary, work of real inclusion? What would it look like to move past performative gestures and become the kind of leader—or ally—that systemic inclusion demands?
Let’s step into that space together. If you’d like to keep the dialogue going, connect with me via LinkedIn or seechangehappen.co.uk.
Until next time, let’s transform intent into action—bite by bite.
Warm regards,
Joanne Lockwood
Host, Inclusion Bites Podcast
The Inclusive Culture Expert at SEE Change Happen
What will you do today to push beyond performance and ignite true belonging?
1st Person Narrative Content
Beyond the Box-Ticking: My Unvarnished Conversation on Real Inclusion
We talk a lot about inclusion in the business world, but it’s easy to sniff out what’s performative and what has real weight. True inclusion confronts the uncomfortable dichotomy of belonging: how we shape environments that don’t just let people in, but actually allow them to thrive without demanding they erase or shrink parts of themselves. It’s one thing to proclaim “bring your whole self to work,” and another to genuinely mean it—especially when friction and discomfort inevitably arise.
Personally, I’ve lived the tension between adaptation and authenticity. My story of anglicising my Irish surname so others might find it easier is more than a matter of convenience; it’s a microcosm of systemic pressures we all still feel. When Joanne Lockwood, host of Inclusion Bites, invited me to dissect the myth of performative inclusion, we agreed not to tiptoe around the hard bits.
If anything in these reflections makes you nod, bristle, or want to argue—brilliant. That’s how change starts.
Why Inclusion Isn’t Comfortable—And That’s the Point
The reason I see inclusion as a serious lever for societal transformation is not just theory—it’s lived experience meshed with years in leadership, coaching, and the realpolitik of organisational change. When you’ve been, at various times, too English to be Irish, too Irish to be English, or “not enough” for whatever group you’re in, you stop believing the world revolves around neat labels.
I opened up to Joanne Lockwood about how little things—the mispronunciation of my name, the mangling of my cultural identity—reflected these deeper currents. “It’s a bit like with my nephew or my niece: I adjust my conversation so we can meet each other. I don’t feel that’s losing myself; it’s just translation,” I said. But it’s also a negotiation of power—whose standards bend, whose histories are recognised.
That isn’t just a ‘personal’ challenge. It’s the landscape every leader in a multicultural world has to navigate. If you don’t feel a little unsettled, you’re probably not doing the work.
Why I Reject “Bring Your Whole Self to Work”—And What Actually Matters
One of the most persistent myths in today’s workplaces is that inclusion is about everyone pouring their unfettered selves into the communal cup. “Bring your whole self to work!” we hear, and nod along. But let’s interrogate that for a moment.
For people with identities that have long been stigmatised or marginalised, the invitation wasn’t to bare all for the benefit of the team; it was a practical plea: don’t force me to hide, to mask, to twist myself so I can do my job without fear. The difference is crucial.
As Joanne Lockwood reminded me, “We want people to bring their whole self… but actually, as you said earlier, we don’t want the racist or the homophobe to do that. We want them to keep that at home.” Quite right.
My consistent position: bring your appropriate self to work. Bring the facets of your identity that matter, that energise you, but do so in a way that advances—not distracts from—the collective’s mission. There are parts of myself I wouldn’t drag into a professional setting (karaoke singing among them, for everyone’s sake). The mandate is not about full exposure; it’s about not having to amputate core elements of who you are just to get a seat at the table.
Inclusion is not an excuse for mission drift. Organisations exist to deliver value, and inclusion, done well, is a potent engine for productivity, creativity, and loyalty. If it’s not supporting the shared mandate, it’s a vanity project.
Why “Knowing Everything About Everyone” Isn’t Required—and What Leaders Actually Need
If I could ask every executive team one thing, it would be: stop believing you need encyclopaedic knowledge of every possible cultural nuance, identity, or lived experience in order to be inclusive. That false premise has paralysed more well-intentioned leaders than explicit bigotry ever could.
As I told Joanne Lockwood, “You don’t need to know everything about everyone; you need to know how to work with everyone.” The ability to meet people where they are, to seek out and genuinely listen to worldviews not your own—that’s the superpower.
In my practice, I’ll only allow individual coaching with leaders who need a confidential, judgement-free zone to ask the ‘daft’ questions, to admit that the language has outpaced their understanding. Trying to do this learning in a group is a compliance minefield, not a growth exercise.
I’ve found more leaders paralysed by the fear of getting it wrong than gripped by the arrogance of always being right. The spectre of being ‘cancelled’, or tarred as intolerant, has led to silence. Silence, of course, is not neutral. It kills psychological safety, stifles innovation, and squanders potential.
So I push for “compassionate accountability.” Demand that people own their impact, but create a space where mistakes are tools for group learning, not acts of exile.
The Weaponisation of Inclusion—and the Mistakes We Keep Making
We have to be honest: inclusion as a field bears scars from its own adolescence. As Joanne Lockwood and I both acknowledged, some of the reputational damage is self-inflicted—where lived experience gets substituted for genuine expertise, and activists who profoundly grasp injustice outside the business arena are parachuted in with little regard for how systems really change inside organisations.
Leaders are right to be wary when the pitch for inclusion sounds “for the other,” or gets tangled with personal politics rather than focusing on what the organisation actually needs to thrive. It’s fashionable to say that businesses are over-indexing on minorities, but more often I see the reverse: the legitimate needs of underrepresented groups get lost in a cacophony of competing causes, or are drowned out by majority confusion and disengagement.
Here’s the problem as I see it. When inclusion gets siloed as the remit for ERGs or HR, it becomes both compartmentalised and, paradoxically, diluted. It’s infinitely easier to talk about ‘belonging’ than to deal with leadership’s ingrained habits and the discomfort that comes with self-examination. But surface-level initiatives, or what we might call “diversity theatre,” only deepen cynicism.
A chilling dynamic has emerged: sometimes the loudest call for inclusion is, in reality, a call to “include only people who agree with me.” If the work doesn’t address genuine pluralism—tolerating, even embracing, conflicting views—then it’s PR, not culture change. I believe deeply in the right to hold views I abhor. I draw the line at the right to harm. Discipline and disagreement both have their place; dehumanisation has none.
Power, Group Dynamics, and the Danger of Righteousness
Both in the workplace and society, I’ve watched how a commitment to ‘being right’ quickly morphs into a justification for exclusion and even oppression—the very things inclusion is meant to eradicate. Righteous indignation can be intoxicating; it’s also deeply dangerous.
When Joanne Lockwood pointed out “being right is a perspective, not an absolute,” it captured a central challenge. In practice, the ability to hold multiple, even paradoxical, perspectives at once—to truly hear, to risk being changed by contact with a worldview not your own—separates inclusive cultures from insular ones. That’s why affinity groups, so powerful for solidarity, can also become echo chambers if left unchecked.
Some of my most acute experiences of exclusion have come not from outsiders, but from within my own LGBTQ+ population—the policing of language, the never-quite-enoughness that governs in-groups everywhere. That’s when I remind myself that inclusion, at its core, is not about comfort. It’s about the hard graft of negotiating boundaries, power, and what it means to share space with people you might strongly disagree with.
If your model of inclusion doesn’t leave space for robust challenge, you’re not really including anyone.
Human Rights, Harm, and the True Purpose of Organisational Inclusion
At the foundation of my work is a bedrock commitment: No one’s right to believe should eclipse another person’s right not to be harmed. But we conflate harm with offence at our peril. As I articulated to Joanne Lockwood, “Harm is not disliking what people say; harm is when something negative actually happens to a person.” We’ve blurred the boundaries here, and it leaves dialogue brittle and progress precarious.
Organisational inclusion is not about liking everyone in the room. It’s about co-creating environments that strip out systemic barriers so people can do their jobs well and with dignity. The point is not radical agreement, but shared accountability. As I told Joanne Lockwood: workplace conversations “should always be connected to what helps this environment be co-created as a space I can feel safe in so I can do my job well.”
If we’re not using power to flatten harm, but instead to enforce orthodoxy, then we’re just recirculating old inequities in new packaging.
The Uncomfortable Future Is the Only Sustainable One
I’m convinced that progress isn’t linear, and it certainly isn’t painless. Sometimes we need tolerance as a starting point, uncomfortable as that may be, before we can develop real acceptance and, eventually, embrace. Within the constraints of the law, the policies, and the practicalities of getting work done, there’s still vast terrain for leaders to choose genuine curiosity over conformity.
I don’t believe we build inclusive cultures by promising ease. We do it by grappling (sometimes awkwardly, sometimes clumsily) with what it means to coexist—and even co-create—with people whose answers to the question “Who am I, and why does it matter?” may differ radically from our own.
If anything here lands, rankles, or makes you want to push back: that’s the right place to start. My inbox is always open, and yes—I really do read every reply.
More than [INSERT_VIEW_COUNT] people have already watched our interview on YouTube, with many more tuning in via Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
If this conversation sparks something for you—questions, pushback, or agreement—I'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments below. I read every one.
Listen to my full conversation with Joanne Lockwood, creator of Inclusion Bites and a pioneering champion for inclusive cultures at every level of business, government, and society. To expand the dialogue further, you’ll find the episode at SEE Change Happen.
Let’s stop ticking boxes—and start talking as if our futures depend on it.
Song Lyrics from Episode
[Title
Middle Ground (Let Me Meet You There)]
[Synopsis
Episode 192 — Sparked by “Beyond Performative Inclusion,” this song journeys through identity, belonging, and the hard truths of real inclusion. Each verse distils lived experience and brings us to a shared threshold—where difference is honoured, not erased. Built on acoustic warmth and indie-pop resolve, it invites us from polarised corners toward honest, compassionate connection, holding space for discomfort, humanity, and hope.]
[Vibe
Artistic direction:
Warm acoustic guitars with soft fingerpicking, subtle country-tinged slide, gentle indie percussion, and spacious atmospheric pads. Female lead vocal—honest, with strength and vulnerability. First verses sparse and reflective, building in energy and harmony towards the chorus. Bridge stripped back before final lift. Think: empowering, grounded, open-hearted indie pop with acoustic roots. Fade-out with hopeful, resonant instrumental.]
Lyrics
[Verse 1]
I’ve worn names remade for your comfort,
Shifted the way I say my own.
Between two lands, not English, not Irish —
Always adapting, forever alone.
But inside, I hold my story
Louder than they’ll ever know,
Willing to meet you halfway—
Letting my own self show.
[Instrumental interlude – soft guitar and pad, evoking open space]
[Verse 2]
Bringing curries to the lunchroom,
A taste from a world left behind.
Too weird, too foreign, too much—
But I never learned to mind.
In groups where I’m never enough,
Loved and lonely both at once,
Found my place by honouring difference,
Learning where I stand, and who I trust.
[Pre-Chorus]
Can we let go of being right,
Long enough to understand?
Is there room for more than one truth
If I reach out my hand?
[Chorus]
Meet me in the middle,
Where a heart can lay down pride.
Past the buzzwords and the boundaries,
Let’s choose to stand side by side.
It’s not about being perfect —
It’s about being there.
Beyond the echo, beyond illusion,
Let me meet you there.
[Instrumental build – drum beat comes in, gentle harmonies, airier textures]
[Verse 3]
Some call me too much, some call me not enough,
But every label’s just a shell.
I’ll keep my name, keep my questions,
Wear difference like a spell.
I’ll hold space for disagreement
If you’ll hold space for me,
It’s not tolerance, it’s acceptance —
Let’s allow each other to be.
[Bridge]
Don’t need to win, don’t need to lose,
We’re all just trying to survive.
When power bends to kindness,
That’s where we come alive.
Bring your doubts, bring your truth,
Just don’t throw love away —
It won’t be easy,
But oh, it’s the only way.
[Instrumental breakdown – stripped back, almost whispered guitar and pads, then slowly growing, drums returning]
[Final Chorus (Lifted & Extended)]
Meet me in the middle,
Where the masks can come undone.
You don’t have to change to be chosen,
You just have to come.
We can thrive in disagreement —
Let our voices rise, not tear.
Beyond performative inclusion,
Let me meet you there.
[Outro/Instrumental fade – lingering guitar, harmonies trailing off, gentle country lilt, fading into soft ambience, leaving space for thought]
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