Charron Pugsley Hill

Welcome to the National Council For Hypnotherapy Podcast, where we dive into the fascinating world of Hypnosis, Lifting the lid on hypnotherapy, sharing insights and tips for change as we chat. So sit back, relax, and enjoy all the wonderful possibilities of Hypnotherapy. My name is Tracey Grist, and I will be your host today. So I'm here today with Sharon Pexley Hill, and you're an environmentalist, activist, artist, and hypnotherapist.

Yes. I am.

Brilliant. That's that's a lot of hats to wear.

It is, but they all fit together really well, actually. So, you know, my I worked in 20 years in wildlife conservation. A lot of that work was about people and nature. So it was about benefits, you know, to people for nature and lots of stuff. So a lot of that work was really about making people feel better working with drug addicts, people, you know, who needed to be out in the countryside and, you know, just looking at all those benefits in nature. So I started that sort of people well-being sort of journey many, many years ago. Yeah. And I'm very passionate about topics I get involved with.

So hence the sort of activist bit, you know, I don't sit at home, you know, if there's something that I can make a difference to. And then I took voluntary redundancy, found art because I was rubbish as a child. I was told as a teacher, I mean, don't bother doing being an artist. You know, you're rubbish. Yes. I know. But that happens to so many people, you know, as an artist, when you talk to people, they go, oh yeah, my teacher, that was rubbish. So I gave it up.

That's what happened to me. So I get that. I understand that. And then, yeah, found solution focused hypnotherapy. Having had it myself.

Okay. I was gonna ask what led you on the hypnotherapy journey?

Yes. It was, a bit of a traumatic time for myself. So my 15 year old niece took her in a life following cyberbullying. This is 12 years ago. She was actually a very high profile case in Ireland. It's a very big sort of investigation into it and all sorts of stuff. And it almost at the time that Ireland said enough of our young people doing this because she wasn't the first. She's she's not gonna be the last.

We know that. And I ended up doing lots of sort of publicity, you know, talking to the media all over the world about cyberbullying because it it was a really big issue at that point. It's what came to a head. And I was somebody who could talk about it because I'd been used to talking about all sorts of, you know, complicated nature issues and environmental issues. So I seem to be talking about it a lot, and it just sort of sort of hits me, actually. And I hit rock bottom, you know, very depressed, Had a number of other sort of smaller things happen at the same time, which sort of compound it. And often that's what happens, isn't it? You know, to get yourself to a really poor place in your mental health. So it's a number of things just hit you all at once, and you just can't deal with them because you're not in a place to deal with the next thing.

I'm not saying, you know, my my niece's death would have been a smaller thing because, of course, it's not. That would have floored anything. But, you know, the things that happened after it afterwards, you know, if they'd been a one off, I would've dealt with them very differently, but because I was in a bad place, you know. So I went to the NHS and then NHS NCH said, yeah, if you've got PTSD, probably 3 to 5 years before we can do anything for you. Have some antidepressants. And I went, I don't need antidepressants. I need to deal with this now because I was very worried about the social and mental health. And a friend of mine recommended me to a solution focused hypnotherapy therapist.

And the next day I found myself sitting in front of him, having what we call as a initial consultation, whereas talking to him and yet the first thing he said to me, which was absolutely game changing for me was I don't need to know what's happened to you to enable you to move forward. If you want to tell me, and we work together and it comes out, that's fine, but I don't need to know. And because I've been spending so much time talking about this terrible thing that has happened to my niece, I was like, oh, I'm so relieved. I don't have to talk about this anymore, but you can still help me. And yeah, 6 sessions later, I was really back in control of myself. I had 10 sessions at that point just to make sure that I was really, you know, back into who I was. And, and it was, it was incredible, you know, the change in such a short space of time. It was amazing.

I was amazed. You know, I'd had done things in the past. You know, I was much younger. I'd had counseling. Not really my thing, to be honest. You know? I I didn't really feel like it really moved me forward, and I've always been somebody to move forward rather than sort of really look at what's happened in the past.

Yeah. So if it was a nice fit then to look I suppose it's your activist self, isn't it, that wanting to move forward, go ahead, and do

Change things. Yeah. Yeah. Change things. Yeah. Yeah. So it really did fit with me. And then it was years later that, you know, I was doing all sorts of things, everything else.

And I it was just one day, I think I was away on holiday, and I was chilling. I'm not I'm not very good at chilling out. And I was just thinking, oh, that was so amazing. And I've got a friend at the time who was in a really poor place. And, you know, I recommended a guide to her and, and I thought, do you know what? There's no reason why you shouldn't train to do this yourself. No. Yeah. I decided to train myself.

And so I went to the Clifton practice of Solution Focused Therapy and trained with them and never looked back, to be honest. It's been amazing. It's been totally life changing for me. And I know for clients that, you know, obviously I work with, because, you know, you you've seen it as well, you know, how amazing, you know, the work is that we do with people who come to us in a really bad place.

Yeah. I love the transformative process. Yeah. I don't know. I like seeing the change in people, and I'm sure, likewise, it it it feels different. It's a different way of working, isn't it?

Yeah. You're giving people tools, aren't you, for the future? That's what I felt. You know, those years before I decided to train, I felt like I've got tools. If I was gonna slip back, I felt like I really knew what I needed to do to get myself out of anything when I slipped back. Because let's face it, you know, life throws challenges at us all the time. You know, we're NCH perfect. I'm not perfect. NCH.

Absolutely not. You know, last autumn I had a bit of a slip back into the PTSD that I had, but I knew what I needed to do, you know, so I'm out of it, you know, and it was about focusing on all those good things and moving forward. What can I do to make myself feel better? And I'm completely out of it again, you know? And to be honest, it was, you know, it was, it was an amazing thing to go back into it because it reminds me, you know, why I trained, why I'd done that, the tools I've got to do it, you know, to get myself out of it. And yeah. And I went back to therapists as well for a few sessions just to really get myself back on track.

Yeah. I know I I think that's what I like is that, you know, like, all my clients know that they can touch base. Because sometimes life is harder than the other, you know, a bit like moon cycles and water and tides. And, like, life life is organic in that way. And we're not just like, oh, I'm finished now. I've done I've done therapy. I'm perfect. No.

It's interesting though, isn't it? Because people think as therapists, you know, you should be perfect, and you shouldn't have to go and have therapy and all that sort of stuff. And no. Okay. I have a bit of sympathy with that, I think, but actually, you know, we are people too, you know, we're human, you know, we have all their challenges thrown at us that everybody else has, you know? So for me, it just felt like a natural thing to do to go. Okay. Yeah. I've got a flare up of a PTSD. And I, and I know exactly what caused the flare up of PTSD.

It was 2 clients in the same week who were actively suicidal and they were the first ones I've had to believe it or not. You know, I've been doing this for years, but it was the first 2 in a week. They've been actively suicidal. And I knew that would be a trigger, you know, with my niece. I always said that it's gonna be a trigger and it and it actually was. And maybe I was sort of pushing myself towards it being a trigger. But, actually, you know, I got them out of being actively suicidal, you know, and all that sort of stuff. And so, yeah, it was, it was interesting, you know, picking up on my triggers, you know, because obviously we look at that with clients, don't we? So yeah.

Yeah. So for me, I feel it's a strong thing to us to stand sit here and go, I'm not perfect. You know? I had a flare up. I dealt with it. Yeah. Yeah.

And so what did you do? So if somebody's listening who like, what what would be tips that you could give? Tips is a bit disrespectful, but what what techniques could you offer to somebody listening who could just do with a little bit of help, really?

I think one of the biggest tips, and I think things have really been changing over the last few years, isn't it, is to prioritize on mental health. You know? It's never really been seen as a big priority. I think things are getting better in that sort of area, aren't they? So I think firstly, it's that that priority is prioritising mental health, and there are lots of things that we can do to do that. You know? So the first thing is, you know, doing things that enable us not to get so depressed or whatever it is in the first place, because then it makes life easier. Doesn't it? I mean, for not hitting that rock bottom, which I mean, most of us are gonna probably hit rock bottom at some point in our lives. So I suppose there were various questions that, you know, I asked myself at the time, right? Okay. So what's gonna make things better for me right now? What can I do that's gonna make me feel good? So it was about focusing on those real things that actually made me feel better. So you've just met my new puppy.

That's part of the process was getting a new dog. And, you know, so for me, I don't feel like I'm a whole person unless I've got a dog. I've always had a dog whole life. Yeah. So there's that little dog shaped hole in your heart when they're not here, isn't it? So my dog also, fourteen and a half years died in the autumn. So that was another part of all the whole process, and she was my absolute soul dog. So getting a dog was another thing. You know, it was getting myself fitter, making sure I was out swimming, doing all those sort of things that make me feel better.

I love swimming. Yeah. We've got a beautiful Lido in Peterborough. It's a cold war swimming, so I was swimming up until December. Oh, no. Brilliant. Because it really does there is something about swimming outside. You know, we're talking earlier.

I'm not gonna swim in the sea and the river at the moment because of water pollution, but the Lido in Peterborough is an amazing place. You can see red kites flying overhead, which I was involved with the reintroduction of those when I was working in nature conservation. We could see the cathedral. You can sometimes hear the bells, the trees, seeing the changes in nature, you know, through the seasons, all those sort of things, really, you know, just keep you in a better place, get you back to a better place. But for me, it's very much about, you know, what little, what little actions can I take every day, which are positive, but then they have that knock on effect, you know, so just doing I mean, I suppose Michael Moser, you know, was very much in our hearts, isn't it, at the moment that do one thing? In solution focused hypnotherapy, we use the miracle question, which is about what small thing can you do, you know, to change and make you feel better. And it's only about a small step because when you're in a bad place, you can't take a massive step. You just can't. You know, it's about those small, little, tiny steps.

So what can we do? I could have a coffee with a friend and have a chat. NCH. Yeah. I could go for a walk. I could listen to some music that I love. You know, and all those little things are changing that chemistry getting those neurotransmitters moving in our brains, changing those neural pathways. So, you know,

there are lots of little things.

And I guess that another top tip is see a hypnotherapist because it's a really positive short term thing that really can change lives. Yeah.

Yeah. It's it's it's funny, isn't it? I think with I I like seeing that people are making more effort around mental health, well-being, and making that investment. And you see people, you know, like both of my sons are attending the gym and they go twice a week. And and it's like, well, what's what's your mental support? What are you doing to look after your mental well-being? And I wish people would see therapy like going to the gym, that we just need a few tweaks now and again, and dip in and out, and look after ourselves. So yeah. Yeah. It's Yeah.

I think, you know, I've got clients who do come once a month, you know, just just just to keep themselves on track. That's how they put it, just to keep on track, just to check-in and make sure, you know, that they're just doing what they need to do. And I love those sessions actually. They're, they're some of my favorite ones because they're not, they're not mentally, you know, they've not had big issues, but it's it's them committing to themselves.

Yeah.

They want to feel well. They want to do all those lovely things that they couldn't do when they were unwell. And I and I love those sessions. I have said they're they're probably some of my favourite ones, you know, not strictly necessary for most people at all, you know, as you probably know, you know, most of my clients don't do that, but it tends to be the older clients actually that tend to do that, which is interesting.

Well, I also think sometimes, and I don't know whether you have the same in Peterborough. I I don't know if it's city centric. I don't that some of my clients just need the permission to look after themselves. You know, they're not there yet going, okay. I can, like, execute self care without guilt. But actually some of the work is about me going, NCH. Take that time off or look after yourself or, you know, that caring part that clients are learning to learning the self care and learning the priority of I think

it it is a learning process, isn't it? Because I know when I was younger, oh, you know, I mean, client, the the sort of atmosphere around it was very different then as well. But, you know, you sort of burn out, don't you, when you're young? You know, you you sort of, you know, go on holiday in the 1st couple of days. You're completely wiped out. But I don't do that anymore, you know, because, you know, I know about all sorts of things and pacing and, you know, all sorts of things that we know how important it is to keep ourselves in a good place so that we can actually really enjoy all of life rather than go bust, boom, bust, boom, bust, boom. So, yeah, I think that's it is, it is really good. Isn't it? And that permission, I think is really important for people.

Yeah. Yeah. So you you paint as well and create. Is there any crossover with the creativity and the hypnotherapy? How does

you interact? Definitely. Yes. So, you know, I've done many workshops over the years, in terms of painting, and I've always called them confidence with your creativity. So one of my sorts of particular interests is, is in women actually who aren't reaching their potential. So, you know, we see so many women who are looking after everybody else and then suddenly they go, oh, where's me? Who am I, what am I gonna do? I love that moment when they go, oh, how can I find myself? But the workshops, you know, so they were constantly creativity. So they weren't people copying what I was doing. It was all about people coming to that, you know, thinking about, you know, where they were in their place and everything else, and then creating their own painting. Obviously, with help, guidance, support, you know, encouragement, you know, enthusiasm, all that sort of stuff.

And it was never about the end process. It was always about spending time with other people, doing the same thing, talking, usually women actually, because I tend to sort of attract more women to the work I do. And it was really interesting, you know, because obviously that sort of workshop is much harder for you as an artist. You know, you've got 10 different people doing 10 different things going, what, how do I, you know, but I loved it because seeing the process, you know, going through, you know, just enjoying a day. Because when you're painting, you know, you you go into flow. That's a phrase that most artists will recognize, which is a status of trance, really. You know, you're in that place where your brain is shut off that crazy part of the world is, you know, it's just focusing on what you're doing. It's giving your brain time, you know, to think of solutions you might need, you know, just to have a bit of reflection, a bit of peace,

a

bit of healing time, you know, so so there's massive overlaps between the 2. And that is something that I'm looking at sort of taking forward, actually, you know, in the work as I go forward, using nature more, you know, doing perhaps therapy walks and things like that, but also, you know, continuing the work that I've done, you know, in art and art. I'd love to do some little retreats. Actually, we're looking at moving, so I want a NCH, lovely studio. I can do some retreats here for people for 2 or 3 days just to come do some therapy as well. So learn about how the brain works, do some art and do some walks and just, you know, thoroughly just have a time out of themselves to think about where they're going. Because I think that's something that I would have perhaps appreciated at some point. Yeah.

So I think that's where it's going because my 2 sort of main interests are sort of in chronic illness, supporting people with chronic Hypnosis. Because I had quite a lot of chronic illness, you know, through COVID, so I I guess that's where I've just gone because I'm, you know, I'm not somebody who hides all that sort of stuff. I was very clear about how, you know, so he helped me through all that, but, you know, to sort of take all that all the way through, you know, so I tend to attract people, you know, who've got chronic illnesses, but also as I say, you know, women who want to sort of just find themselves again. And I love that part of my work because I think there's a lot of women out there who are just doing what they feel they should be doing and not what they really want to be doing.

I think it's difficult, isn't it? Because we're we're at that point where we're told, you know, the patriarchal society, and women can do and be everything, and and we can't. You know? It's something always gives. And I think the the woman gives, and that's they're constantly working or childcare or house care, all of those things that that we just have so many demands on us. That space to find oneself is really, really important.

Yeah. It is. And there comes that point, doesn't it? I think in as well, it seems to be women at a certain point, they've, you know, the children are just leaving home, you know, they've done all the work in the door, and then there's, like, this new phase of life. Yeah. It's scary. Yeah. That's that's the point I love because actually, do you take away that sort of fear and actually give people that enthusiasm, you know, that encouragement for a new phase of their lives, you know, showing that they can be happy. They can do lovely things.

It's not all over.

Well, and it's difficult, isn't it? Because if you've done all of those years caring, you know, bringing up children, holding the family home or working, like, there's so much structure around you that you're held or trapped or supported, however we look at that that and then suddenly, the kids go and all of your primary, like, needs of demands have been met. And then suddenly they're all gone, and you're like, oh, who who am I? What what's what's for me now? And I think that can be as daunting as it is exciting. Yeah.

Yeah. I absolutely agree. Yeah, absolutely agree. You know, I, Yeah. And I love that. I love working with women who then, you know, you can see them, you know, going on to write a book or do whatever it is, you know, because they've had it in there and they just, again, that's that permission thing, I think, as well, isn't it? Part of that permission thing is, yes. It's okay to write a book, you know, and just so it's okay to go and do that bungee jump. It's okay to do whatever it is that you're going to do.

And I and I I love watching that. I love watching that.

Yeah. And that's the thing when, like, when you're caring for people, like, your needs come last. So then you think, well, I can't possibly write a book or I can't

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the beauty of hypnotherapy, isn't it? Because it can change those sort of neural pathways and enable you to see, you know, the possibilities, you know, that positivity, that, that new life. It, you know, you don't have to look at what's happened before. You can just move on and just focus on, you know, the new parts of your life. I love it. I love watching that.

Yeah. Yeah. So so who do you read around hypnotherapy? Are you inspired by anyone in the hypnotherapy world?

I do, actually. I do, yeah, I do read, and I do listen to podcasts a lot.

Sorry. That wasn't a do you read.

I mean, I read a lot of historical sort of fiction, actually. Oh, that's my sort of, you know, chick lit stuff. Yeah. That's my sort of, oh, I need to just, you know, decompress. But yeah. No. Yeah. It's it's interesting is that I've always been a reader.

I've always been somebody. So one of my sort of, you know, favorite phrases, which a gave me many years ago is every day is a learning day.

Ah, yeah.

You know, because I think it's important to learn through life. You know, too many people, I think done that, you know, I'm just going to stay the same. I'm not going to learn. Yeah. And I think, you know, I'll show you a book. I've just literally sort of finished reading a little while ago, which is Johann Hari. I don't know if you've read this.

Oh, okay. Yeah.

Focus. So he he goes on a journey to sort of find out why, you know, people can't focus on things anymore. You know? Because people blame themselves, don't they, about I can't focus on this, I can't do this, you know? Actually, there are so many outside influences taking that focus away from what we're doing. Fast fascinating book. Excuse me. Fascinating book, actually. You know, why why we can't pay attention. Well, actually, there's lots of, you know, external influences pulling us away from everything we're doing, not just social media.

You know, there's lots of other things as well. So fascinating books. That's really good. So he's got another one actually, which I'm I'm going to get and read that as well because he write he re he writes in a really sort of easy to read way because often, you know, books about the brain and hypnotherapy. I'm sorry. I, I did enough science years years ago. They're very dry and I just, I just can't. I just can't.

NCH, we just call. I just call. Yeah. But I try, I do try, but I must map for books like him that's just a little bit softer actually. Yeah. Because, you know, you do take in a lot of things and it it really enhances the way you think about your own work.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It it's difficult, isn't it? Because we're so, like, bombarded with advertising. We're so bombarded by lights, by our phone, by all of the screens in life that I've just come back from holiday. And it took me about 4 days to actually read a book again because I've been so used to scrolling or, you know, emails and reading information. That to actually just sit down with NCH on paper was just a big ask. But and then eventually, I got back into it.

And I thought, oh, note to self. What have you been missing out on?

Very interesting, isn't it? Yeah. And we don't realize, do we? We just sort of get sucked in.

Right. And it's that difference. So I will read nonfiction, but because I was like, oh, I'm gonna go and read a fiction book, my brain was going, pulling it back in. Come on. Let's focus on fiction. And that and you realize, okay. So how long has that been happening for? What and and it's such a slow process where you realize, oh, actually, most of my evenings taken up by coming in and out of Instagram or just checking in on social media. And it's it's not actually reading.

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. It's very easy to get sucked in.

Yeah. And and our brains get agitated.

Yeah. Absolutely. They do. Yeah. And, of course, then then because that can be, you know, overcome by, you know, walking in nature. You know? My friend said to me years ago, she said, why don't you listen to music when you're out walking? I'm like, because I want to listen to sounds of nature. I want to take nature in. I don't want to listen to somebody sort of like going.

Yeah. The one time I did enjoy listening to music actually was after I had major heart surgery just after, lockdown. And that was the one time that music really helped me was the rhythm because I had to walk. So it really, really did help me then. And I think there was something about the rhythm giving my brain this sort of space to actually really focus on the walking. That makes sense? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Because when I'm painting, I don't listen to music either. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No need. There's no point because I'm not listening to it, so there's no point because my brain is in that trance state, which is lovely. Yeah. Music around me too. Yeah.

Because I'm just off off, you know, in the trance state, which is lovely. So Yeah.

And it's that it's that thing, isn't it, with hip hypnosis of people being frightened of, like, being put in a trance. And, actually, we go into so many trance states all the time.

I think people don't really understand that, do they? Yeah. It's see, I find it a very beautiful place, and and actually, it's hypo Hypnotherapy and hip hypnosis has actually saved my life, I think, on 2 occasions. 1 was my major heart surgery, and then I was home for a few days and had a massive pulmonary embolism, so, you know, blood put in the lungs, which I shouldn't have survived. And I think because I was so calm, so I sort of self hypnotised myself again with that, the oxygen need didn't go up. So I think I honestly crushed it with saving my life because the consultants have no idea how I actually survived that. So that to me said to me how powerful again this therapy is. And then I had breast cancer. I mean, honestly, you can't make up my health issue over last year.

So I had, I was diagnosed with breast cancer, and I had to have a lumpectomy, and I did that under self hypnosis with just local anesthetic. I had a surgeon who was prepared to do it rather than put me out. He was prepared to do it, and it was amazing because I was laughing and joking with all the staff in the operating theatre as he was cutting me open and I could help him. I could move because I was awake and I'd pop myself in and out of chance, you know, while the surgery was going on. It's not for everybody. I'm gonna admit that's not for everybody, you know, it's because I am experienced, you know, I'm, you know, not gonna get that with, you know, few sessions of hypnotherapy if you come as a client. But to me, you know, it was amazing, and I think it amazed the staff in the theater, you know, that I was as I said, I was laughing and joking because the surgery had been delayed because somebody else's surgery had been, you know, taking longer. I was starving.

I was, you know, laughing and joking about, 'Come and get a pizza'. I'm so hungry. They were finding it really funny, you know. So, yeah, so I think it's an incredibly powerful tool if you could have it in your toolbox, you know, to help you through that. And, of course, because I wasn't put out and because I took control and me being in my power, you know, I recovered so much better.

Yeah. What made you take that option, if you don't mind me asking?

I don't I don't do very well with general aesthetics.

Yeah.

And I just knew I could do it.

Yeah.

Doesn't mean so I just thought because so when it was diagnosed, I was at the NHS, and and they basically said, well, this is what's gonna happen. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And it felt like a complete hamster wheel. It was like NCH control. Nothing. And I had had I've had a stroke before that. You know, I've had the pulmonary embolism. I've had lots of infections.

I've had the major, major heart surgery. My surgeon's words, not mine. So I'd felt like I was in a bit of a of process anyway. And I just thought, no. So, you know, I spoke to another surgeon and he said, yeah. Okay. We can we can look at that, and had a very different attitude to it, which was great. And, yeah, it was it just all worked perfectly well and fine for me.

I'm not saying as I say, I'm not saying it's really, but I did feel very strong and very powerful. And I, as I say, I knew I could do it. Having been through all the other stuff, this was almost like a ticking off exercise. So, yeah, it was it was a real powerful thing for me as a person to do that.

Well, and I think one of my one of my earlier experiences was my second child. So with Elliot, my first, I'd had an epidural. So I didn't really have any awareness of what it was like going into labor. So with Aidan, I I was told I was having a big baby and that I needed to go to the hospital. And because he was my second child, they expected me to know what labor was. And I I had another clue because I was epiduraled up. And so I was saying to my husband at the time, I think I'm in labor. I don't know.

Like and so I'd be phoning the hospital going, I think I'm in labor. And then the, midwife in the end would be like, no. No. You don't sound like you're in labor. Okay. And I'd be sort of saying to myself, well, you know, I've grown up being told that I'll, you know, fall over 2 pee pee's and cry. So I'm really sensitive. So this probably isn't labor.

I'm probably being dramatic and thinking it's labor, but it isn't labor. It's not really, like, hardcore labor because I don't know. And so all the time, I'd literally persuaded myself that I wasn't going through labor. So by the time I got to hospital, I was crowning with Aidan and, like, on the on the last legs because I'd just been and and that, how we talk to ourselves and how we you know, I was like, oh, I'm just so sensitive. This isn't real labor. And it I just I think the power of how we talk to ourselves, what we say to ourselves.

Absolutely. It's huge. And I don't think people realise, do they? You know, but I talk a lot to my clients actually about turning round. You know, they're they're saying these things in session and I say right, let's turn that round. How could we put that in a better way? Because, you know, it's a habit isn't it, to talk to ourselves, particularly as women, put ourselves down, you know, and if we can turn that round, you know, we're gonna be much more powerful beings.

Yeah. And and why not?

Exactly. Yeah. Absolutely. Why not? Yeah. So do you think you were sort of using your own sort of hypnotherapy then, you know, during that sort of labor process? Because I I I didn't know hypnotherapy when I had my children. That was, you know, before before my hypnotherapy journey.

So yeah. No. I definitely was using a form of hypnosis. Like, granted it was clumsy, but all the time, because I was telling myself. So the process was quite straightforward, really. And Aidan could have come sooner, I think. So I probably delayed the labor just by not recognising the the readiness of it. I just didn't know.

I just didn't know. You know?

Of course, we now know. You know, the head nurse is used a lot, you know, for birth and pregnancy, you know, in a very successful way, isn't it? So, yeah, amazing. Absolutely amazing. So

yeah. And I think I think that learning, like, when we're when we're in those situations, like, realising our own strengths, I think, is really important. And that that that permission to talk really well about yourself, to be your own, like, PR. Like, why not? It's in our heads. Nobody knows.

Yeah. Yeah. I I totally agree. I totally agree. As an artist, that's, you know, that's you have to do that because nobody else is gonna do it for you. You have to sort of, you know, say, well, this is me, and this is how I do my art. This is, you know, if you want it, well, you know. I mean, I I it was interesting actually.

The so the first time I actually showed my art in public, I had this huge bloke come up to me, and I'm not sure I can say what he said to me exactly, but it was basically, you know, some loads of rubbish. Let's go further. They're not just rubbish. You know? It's NCH complete. And and, actually, you know, I thank that guy a lot of the time, actually, because what he told me was, you're not gonna please everybody all the time. Yeah. You know? So find your tribe, find the people that do love what you do, and that's enough. That's fine.

So I do, I honestly thank him, you know, because he taught me a very valuable lesson, very early on that people are gonna say that sort of stuff to me. And you've just gotta, you know, be strong enough to do with it. Yeah.

But also when, when, when you paint and you create these wonderful pieces, you're also putting that vulnerable part of you out there, aren't you? Absolutely. And and that exposure.

Yeah. Yeah. So it and it is part of that vulnerability, isn't it? So, you know, so I think the the power that learning about hypnosis and, you know, the brain and how we can use the brain to help ourselves has been invaluable, you know, in in all areas of the work I do, you know, so rather than, you know, just saying, well, I can't go and do that. What can I do instead to help? Yeah. So I was talking about, you know, restore nature March, you know, a few weeks ago in London. I couldn't go. I wasn't feeling well. So I spent the morning emailing politicians about, you know, nature because we are one of the most nature deprived countries in the world.

You know? So rather than going, oh, I can't go. I can't go. You know, my brain's mindset now is, well, what can I do instead to help?

Yeah.

Yeah. You know? So, you know, so we can all make that little change, you know, rather than just accepting what's happening to us. You know, when we learn those processes and learn, you know, the ways that we can do that with our brains, we can then turn things around and make our lives better, you know, which is ultimately, you know, sitting at hip therapist. That's what we're trying to trying to do, isn't it? Make people's lives better for them. Yeah.

Yeah. That's really exciting. Right. So so retreats are in the future. Where where do you want to map your life for the future?

Well, interesting, isn't it? So I was talking about a book earlier. So what have I got? Sat on my desk right now. So you're seeing the drafts of my book. So here they have a j, and the little j is got a little story by Seismic. He's got a little thing. So I have a deadline for this book, so I need to do this. And then being a creative person and being a hypnotherapist going, well, what next? So I've actually got lots of ideas for more of these little books. So they're really about sort of conversations, I suppose, between with with children, with with humans.

So the little stories are sort of anecdotal sort of metaphors for how we can help our mental health. And, yeah, so that's why I'm quite excited about doing some more of these if I get a chance and if it's successful because, you know, people might not like it. Who knows? I don't mind if I don't. It's fine. And then retreats. Yeah. So we're trying to move to Somerset because I'm my family are from Somerset. So I want to have this sort of lovely place that I can, you know, just just give people a space to breathe.

Yeah. You know, if they want to talk to me, that's fine. If they don't, if they just wanna sit in my studio and create art, that's fine. If they wanna go for a walk in a beautiful place, then, you know, it's, yeah, it's it's, it's something I've been thinking about for a while over lockdown, you know, because, you know, all the lockdowns and all the COVID and, you know, I've got to be careful with COVID and it's like, you know, we were talking earlier, weren't we, about intensive conversations. And I think, you know, repeats, you know, for maybe 1, 2, 3 people, that's gonna give some of that tenseness that sometimes people need.

Yeah. Yeah. They want it.

If they don't want it, then it's, you know, it's a more gentle process. You know, that's what we do at Hypnotherapy, isn't it? We respond to our clients, you know, and we help them in the best way that we can help them with their lives.

Yeah. Yeah. That's really exciting. Where about to Somerset you're gonna go?

Well, we're hoping to sort of move to the sort of Avalon Marshes area. So it basically the, the levels, I suppose, villages around the levels. I want to be out of the city. Not that where I live is particularly city ish, but it isn't a city. Yeah. I want to get, you know, my husband's retired, so my son's trained to be a blacksmith.

Oh, wow.

I was a bit left field that was. I was like, really? Okay. But we did everything we could, you know, to facilitate him because I know how important it is. You know? So I'm very good at doing that. This summer, he wants to go and to learn to dive. So him and I and the the dog, we're going down to Cornwall for, you know, so he can learn to dive in the Cornish seas. Yeah. So I guess that's what and also, you know, just continue painting, but also continue seeing clients because I I love it.

I love I love being hypotherapist.

Yeah.

I really do. I'm so glad, not only for myself because it's been massive for me, but also for clients, you know, and those clients that gonna see the future like you. You know, it's it's exciting, isn't it, knowing that you can help people?

Yeah. And just to make a little difference. You know, it is all about small things. Right? Life's all about small things and just

Yeah. That's one of my favourite phrases, making a difference.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's that it's it's it's even things like, you know, what we say to somebody else. You you were told by a teacher that you couldn't paint, and here you are painting and acing it, doing a book, all of those things. And just the our words are so powerful, aren't they?

Yeah. And I hear that a lot from people who say, oh, yeah. My teacher told me I was rubbish, you know, and they come to, you know, the workshops I do and you think, and, and they're rubbish because like me, I didn't want to paint apple. I can't paint apple. It looks like an apple. I really can't. Honestly, I really can't. I'm not interested in painting a apple that looks like an apple.

And what I'm interested in is getting stuff out of my head that I can imagine. And, of course, as hypnotherapists, you know, we do all that sort of reframing, don't we, get people to imagine what their life can be like? And so for me, it's picking up all the energy and just letting it flow through me into a colorful piece of art. So, you know, yeah, it's it's a fascinating process. I love it. I love combining all the things I do, the nature, the art, and all the neuroscience, you know, the hypnotherapy, the trance when you're in flow. Yeah. So it's just, it's just a lovely place to be.

And that's I think that's a good part spot part to to end. Lovely place to be. It is, isn't it?

I mean, you you you understand what I'm talking about, do you? And that's, you know, just hope more people get to find out about Hypnotherapy and what it can do for them because it's just amazing.

Oh, and to give it a go. And to give it a go and to choose the right person. You know? It's a good option,

isn't it?

Yeah. Yeah. And recognizing that some therapists we stay with because we don't know that we can change. That or and to find somebody that we resonate with is it cuts out a lot of the stuff at the start.

Oh, yes. Yes. It does. That's the most important thing. Whenever I speak to anybody, get on with your therapist. That's the most important thing. If if I'm not that person, go find somebody else.

Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant.

Because actually, it's but it's both ways, isn't it? You know, we need to get on with them as well to to do our magic.

Well, this is it. And but, I mean, it's our job, isn't it? It's our job. And it's our you know, I I love my clients. Love them because that's part of my job, to love them. And I think that there are people that won't feel comfortable or won't want that, and that's okay. That's okay.

Yeah. Okay. I know from talking, you know, obviously, we've talked a little bit before we've recorded this, you know, how passionate you are about chemotherapy. And I love that passion. I love to see that passion, actually. But some people find that a little bit too much. And if it's too much for them, go and find somebody who's a little bit down.

A little bit gentler. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, let's well, let's think of that. Let's

Get on with it. Yes.

I think there's a lot of elements where we are cut from the same cloth. The activist, isn't it? Like, that's that part. Well, it's been absolutely wonderful talking to you.

I I love you talking to you. Yeah. I've really enjoyed this morning. It's been great.

Thank you ever so much for your time and your inspiration and your wonderful art.