Bridging the Divide Between Funders and Founders with Sarah Sterling

Hi. This is Paul Zolizer, and welcome to the Awarepreneurs podcast. On this show, we dive deep into wisdom from some of the world's leading social entrepreneurs. Our goal is to help increase your positive impact, your profitability, and your quality of life. Before we get into today's topic, I have one request. If you could hit subscribe and do a review on your favorite podcast app, it helps more people learn how to have positive impact through a values based business. Thank you so much. Today, I am thrilled to be here and to introduce you to Sarah Sterling.

And our topic today is bridging the divide between funders and founders. Sarah is the executive director of entrepreneurship for SoCAP, which brings together social entrepreneurs, investors, foundation leaders, government leaders, academics, and more for live and digital experiences. The goal is to accelerate the movement to a more just and sustainable economy. Sarah has worked with and trained international organizations and accelerators such as Mercy Corps, Oxfammer International, Village Capital, Swiss EP, and Agora Partnerships. Sarah, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.

You've done a few things in the impact space. I'm really excited about this topic and, and this can be such an interesting dance. Right? It it's both like. Funders and founders need each other, but it also can be a little awkward or uncomfortable. Right? So this is such an important topic, and you're just the right person to help us understand this better. Before we get into our specific topic and strategies, tell us a little bit. If somebody was listening and they're like, I have no idea who Sarah Sterling is, what would somebody wanna know about you and a little bit of your backstory before we get more into the topic?

Yeah. I mean, so like you like you said, I've I've had my hands in a lot of different types of work. And so my professional experience, I've been really lucky to be able to have worked both for, like, US government as a peace corps volunteer in El Salvador to impact investing with an impact investment Fund called Pomona Impact in Guatemala for several years as their impact director with SoCAP since 2015 as the leader of their entrepreneur program, which is now called the SOCAP Fellowship. And so I've been and also obviously doing a lot of consulting work with variety of accelerators and incubator programs. So I think my specific journey really kicked off thanks to my Peace Corps experience and being able to work with small women's business development groups. It was the first time that I really got into this concept of business for for impact even at a very, like, microfinance level. But I really got to see the impact of people on the ground, which I think was really the life changing, you know, click for me. And so when I went to grad school at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies at Monterey, I really wanted to find out, like, what is that you know, I thought of it as a silver bullet at the time, which, you know, hindsight is is 2020, but, you know, I stumbled upon this really amazing certificate training program called Frontier Market Scouts, and you learn all about impact investing in social entrepreneurship from practitioners who are actively doing the work.

And then you have the opportunity to do a fellowship for 6 months to a year with a social enterprise or an impact investment fund. And so I I chose to go to Guatemala where I had never been before, but I have traveled extensively and lived in different countries in Latin America before that and got to work with Pomona Impact for about three and a half years as their director of impact and really got to see the impact investment side of things, which was really interesting, especially from being in the position of impact measurement, which is a topic we can go into in-depth in another in another podcast for this for this entire ecosystem of impact investing in social entrepreneurship. But I think the thing that I love the most about my work at Pomona was really getting to do site visits and learn directly from the social entrepreneurs, and I got to go to a lot of impact events. And and at the same time, I also did a fellowship with SOCAP. And so I have these two routes of, like, impact investment and then a conference organizer position, but directly supporting entrepreneurs. And I think I really found my passion through the social entrepreneurship route and really working directly from and learning a lot from social entrepreneurs. You know, my my mom's an entrepreneur. She runs her own Montessori preschool, so I was raised with that sort of, you know, business leadership mindset from a very early age.

But I never truly appreciated the vehicle that for profit and even in nonprofit, but business models, like running it as a business, could really add to the development ecosystem. And I think that's sort of the key factor here when we're talking about impact investment and social entrepreneurship as it is a real intensely scalable and and really sustainable solution for economic development, both nationally for for looking at like the US or internationally globally. And so, again, it's not the silver bullet for sure. There's a lot of pitfalls and lessons learned that I think we're still working on as a community, but definitely just so, so many incredible innovations that are reaching the people that need need them the most through both of these models. So that's sort of what sparked my my career trajectory, partners that we work with as well. So. Yeah.

And if somebody didn't know what SOCAP was and specifically as it relates to our topic together, bringing together funders and founders, what would you want somebody to know about SOCAP?

So SOCAP is the largest and longest running globally focused conference on impact investing in social entrepreneurship. And I think the real special ingredient about SoCAP versus other impact events, if, you know, you're looking at your calendar and trying to pick which events to go to each year is we really do try to bring actors, players, practitioners from all different fields that that touch those those two areas of both founders and funders. So we have, like you mentioned already in the intro, the government practitioners and international development organizations, but we also have a lot of family offices and social entrepreneurs that are either, you know, startups or students starting their own venture for the first time, all the way to, like, people raising series a, series b types of funding and institutional investors and VCs. And so we get a lot of newcomers every year too that are in the more traditional funding space or even business space that learn a lot and and walk away with really valuable connections that help them deepen deepen their impact in the world long after SoCap is over. It's it's a once once a year event that takes place at least for this year, October 28th through 30th. And we're in San Francisco and we convene about 25100 to 3000 people. So we're we are a very large audience, but we really focus on creating connections between people, especially diverse people who might have very different opinions through debate and and just conversation, but also through actively connecting people ourselves together. And so that's where the, I think, the strong point of the fellowship program is that's what we really offer both our entrepreneurs that we select, which is a cohort of 20 this year from all over the globe, sector agnostic, investment ready for profit enterprises with any registered investor that comes to SOCAP at any stage.

And so I think it's it's very unique for a conference organizing entity to actually do that added connecting space for attendees way before the conference even starts so that people really arrive at SOCAP with familiar faces and connections that are already made and put in place.

Yeah. And if folks want more information, I'll put a link in the show notes, but I'll say, if you ask around in the impact space and people are saying, what events do I wanna think about being in person? So cap comes up over and over and over again.

So

definitely encourage you to go check it out, link in the show notes. So let's, let's get into the topic a little more in a more granular ways there. So funders and founders, let's, let's talk about like, why do they need each other and why is it a little awkward between them sometimes?

So, yeah, I mean, they can't I'm in the basic most basic sense, they can't really survive without each other. So it should be this really symbiotic relationship where you have impact investors who are, you know, funders sometimes coming from a very traditional financial background who are wanting to do to do something different and really put their dollars towards the impact ecosystem and and showing either their, you know, LPs, etcetera, the people who are investing in their funds tangible impact beyond just the financial return. Right? That's why they get into this work, and there's, you know, variety of different definitions of what is an impact investor and what sort of rates people charge, etcetera. But the the goal really should be to increase impact in the world through investing in different models in different sectors and geographies in the world. And then on the other side with social entrepreneurs, you know, I think these are are individuals and groups that really want to make a difference beyond the traditional business model, and it's really hard work on both sides. But I think both parties are choosing to do the harder work to create impact in the world that's really scalable and sustainable versus the traditional charity model, which is totally relevant for many different types of work, especially disaster relief and things like that. But in terms of a model for development, I find it to be a lot more sustainable and scalable for social enterprise specifically. And so you do have this sort of symbiotic model with similar base values.

And I think the the the issue that's become really present in the ecosystem is really a power imbalance and a power dynamic that has been established by bringing a lot of people and and mindsets from the traditional financial background into the the impact investing social entrepreneurship space. Right? Yeah. And I think there's just a lot of education and learning in different ways in which people can engage in that space, especially around different types of funding that's available that's way more flexible now, like revenue based finance, and we call a lot of these, like, models catalytic capital or patient capital and expectations too. Right? Like, unless you're a single investor running your own your own fund or family office, you have other people too that you need to provide some sort of profit or returns to. And so I think it puts a lot of it puts a lot of pressure on the funding system to have the same expectations that you would for the traditional financial investment environment, let's say. And then that, in turn, puts a lot of strain and more pressure on the social enterprises that are invested in. And also to the the sort of star entrepreneur mentality where, you know, if you don't receive investment, oh, you don't you didn't raise a series a, then you're not really a successful entrepreneur. If you've just made it by your own bootstraps and funding internally with friends and family, you're not taking us seriously sometimes in the ecosystem.

And and I think too that goes with also impact investors, like, if you're not managing a a $30,000,000 fund, what are you doing? You know? And, oh, you're not making market rate return, then you're not really serious about investment. And so I think we need to be really open to the fact that there are many different ways to do this work, and there are some ways that are more conducive to long term sustainable impact and community development than others. Right? And so it's can't they can't all be like the VC Silicon Valley unicorn environment, and a lot of it's really a lot slower than that. So I think there's a lot of also lessons learned from the development community, people who've been in that space for a long time, most of whom are nonprofits foundations or government entities that that we can take those lessons learned and imply them to impact investing in social entrepreneurship.

Beautiful. So you've got, on one hand, you have funders, and by definition, funders have some money, either their own or they're managing other people's money that they wanna invest. And people have been hearing more about impact investing, and you can get a return in some cases, quite a good return, and also use your money to make the world a better place. So that's we got, we got people in that bucket. Right. And then we have founders of companies that wanna scale. They need to get up and running or they wanna grow it, and they need money to do that. And here's our 2 pools of people.

So that's awesome. And you did a great job explaining that. So now let's get a little bit, like, more go into the tension a little bit. And one of the things you said is just I'd pull out a highlighter. It doesn't always get Silicon Valley rates of return, and this is one of the places like, okay. The funders are giving money. So the question is, how does that decision get made? And what are the expectations? Sitting over here, and I should back up a little bit. Over the past couple years, I've gotten more involved.

You know, I've been pretty heavily in the social entrepreneur end of the spectrum. Definitely have friends and colleagues and a little bit in or done interviews, But, about 15 months ago, I got recruited and said yes to be a consultant for New Mexico Angels, which is the largest network of early stage investors in New Mexico. And I was recruited by Drew Tolchin. Shout out to Drew. Drew was the first CFO of Meow Wolf, which is the biggest b corp ever to come out of the southwestern US. Right? So, anyway, an impact person back in the day, he worked with the Grameen World Bank. Anyway, an impact person invited me into the impact investing and the startup world from the investor side of the state I live in and have lived in since 1993. So suddenly I'm like learning a lot more about shaking hands.

And, you know, I'm at service of an organization that's here to serve investors. So so I had seen so much of this up close and personal in the past 15 months. So I just wanted to give that context listener. So, so this tension between funders wanna invest, but they are trying to figure out how they can both have impact and meet whatever their financial goals are. And they also don't wanna like walk down the and get pitched by every entrepreneur on the planet. Like they wanna be able to live their lives or go to an event and not feel like they're constantly being hounded by entrepreneurs. Right. That's, that's one side of the tension.

Is that fair to say?

Definitely. Yeah. And I think there's a lot that entrepreneurs can do too to educate themselves in creating that investor profile for themselves so that they are more targeted in in their outreach. Yeah. And, you know, because it's a lot of time and energy on both sides. And especially if it's not a good fit from the very beginning, it can be an awful experience for both parties.

100%. So so we've sort of leaned in a little bit and kinda had some empathy for the investors. They're trying to get a return. Entrepreneurship is a risky, Just by definition, it's it's high risk, high return kind of a scenario. And they don't wanna get pitched all the time, but they also do wanna hear about ideas. So that's some of the, you know, tension on the investor side. What's some of the tension on the entrepreneur side? What have you heard or what have you seen where sometimes it's not the easiest relationship or at least when it's not done well, it can be a hard relationship for founders.

Yeah. And I think and again, I think it goes back to this sort of education and and being more intentional with the types of relationships that you build because we always say, you know, when we're talking with entrepreneurs in our fellowship program, because we take the standpoint of, you know, how can entrepreneurs really approach investors from a place of power and stepping into the power that they have as social entrepreneurs. But part of that is a lot of work that they have to do themselves. Right? Like, if there's a lot of you know, talk about due diligence on the impact investor side, and impact investors take a lot of time and energy and investment and resources to do their due diligence on an enterprise before they say yes, but I don't really see that on the entrepreneur side. You know, the lot of initial investigation, and I and I get the the tension in terms of needing to get funding, to keep your business operating and scoring and scaling at the rate that you want it to be at. But I do find that a lot of entrepreneurs do very, very, very, very basic research before reaching out to an investor or approaching an investor in person at an event, and and then it turns out that it's really not a good fit, and what an awkward position to put both parties in. Right? To be like, oh, I'm sorry. That's that's really cool work that you're doing, but you're not a good fit.

And and a lot of times, the information is pretty readily available or you or investors are very open to receiving at least requests for more information, which is why we do a lot of blind introductions through email as part of our fellowships. So the investors don't feel like they're obligated to talk to someone if they're not a good fit. Right? And so we'd really try to create that system of trust. It's a big factor of trust of, like, if you're approaching me as an entrepreneur, if I'm an investor and you're approaching me as an entrepreneur, it means that you've done your homework and due diligence on what I'm looking to invest in or if I'm even actively investing. Because a lot of investors, especially at SOCAP, are actually looking for funding for their own funds. Like, they've they've closed their, you know, investing period for that year, and they're looking for more funding to be able to invest maybe in 6 months to a year. And so I think that's sort of the biggest takeaway that we really work with our entrepreneurs and our partner cohorts that join our program as well to really create, like, what is that profile based off of the stage that you're at? What type and amount of capital is really what what you need at this at this point? And what types of investors, what is that profile of investor that actually provides that type of end stage or amount of capital. Right? So I think it's definitely on on both sides, but I think on the on on the entrepreneur side, it definitely is, like, a lack of due diligence and and feeling like almost you need to get money from wherever it comes from.

And that's where we really also work with entrepreneurs to say, you know, since it is kind of like a marriage, because some of these are very long term contracts and relationships, some sort some are shorter, but they can have serious implications, especially we're talking about equity investments. You need to find someone that really is going to add value in a way that's beyond just financial for your venture, and they should. They should be able to provide connections. They should be able to find other invest investors to help with, you know, follow on investment, etcetera. And that actually helps everyone out in the long run because it derisks the entire, you know, quote unquote pipeline of investment for folks. And we really encourage investors, you know, when we approach them about entrepreneurs, it's like this entrepreneur has been through Miller Center For Social Entrepreneurship. They've done due diligence on this on this on this venture. It's derisked for you already.

So here you go. You're welcome. You know, and just making it easier for people to find each other instead of this sort of frantic, hectic, you know, handing out your business card to everyone that you see that might say, like, investor or fund manager or GPLP on their business card.

Yeah. I really love what you're saying there, Sarah. So as an entrepreneur, kind of like the way if you wanna sign up for a train wreck, because I think I hear you're much more polite than I am. I'm pretty direct. If you wanna sign up for a train wreck, don't do your due diligence, like chase after anybody who works for any kind of bond at any stage, regardless of values, and there's a pretty good chance you're likely to wind up with some big regrets. And what I hear you saying is being very intentional about the type of capital. Is this an equity? Is, you know, is there is this some sort of a loan where there's an interest rate repayment? You know, just is this a investment that if there was to be a sale, you have to pay 1st or they can wait a little bit further down

the line.

There's a bunch of different questions about the type of capital and also the rate of return. This is something that I've seen a lot that that in the impact space, we don't always, you know, in, in angel dom, if you are an angel, that's completely agnostic about what you're investing in. You're looking to get 10 x return in 5 years or less. That's the benchmark. Well, Impact Ventures can give great returns, but that's pretty uncommon in any kind of business, especially if it's working in a community where there's some structural inequalities going on to begin with, you don't always see 10 X return in 5 years or less. And, and if you don't have that conversation or you're not like pursuing investors that understand that, okay, I'm still gonna get a great rate of return, you know, but I might not get white traditional angel type goals or, you know, really aggressive VC goals. So if we don't have those conversations with people, we're just, oh, they'll give us money. Great.

We're setting ourselves up for a lot of pain and and if on both sides. Is that fair to say? Yeah.

And I would just add too. I think this this is part of the some of the sort of challenges that I've heard voice from entrepreneurs, and it goes back to sort of the investor side, is the due diligence process itself. So if you finally do get a, oh, yeah, let's explore this opportunity from an investor as an entrepreneur, it can be really frustrating because that due diligence process can be very time and resource intensive for the entrepreneur. And and then at the end of maybe 3, 6 months to a year, you get a no. It's incredibly demotivating, and you've sort of, quote, unquote, wasted your time at the same time. And so I would say also to impact investors on that side is, like, really know when it's a no. You know? Like, have all your systems in place and what you're looking for, you know, and and stick stick to those boundaries that you have and criteria so that you can be able to tell someone no as soon as possible and instead of hemming and hawing. You know, like, oh, maybe.

Oh, but if I just get this last piece of data, that will make up my mind. It's like, no. You you need to have really your really strict criteria of what you will and will not invest in in the risk, you know, the risk portfolio that you have as well.

100%. And and the other thing I might say to the investor side, so there's try to be clear about your no. Try to be clear about what contributes to a yes. And also, I think it's totally fine to put not yet on the table. Right? I like where you're going. You know? Why don't we circle back in 6 months or a year and give me an update? Right? You're not ready now, and let's not pretend that you are, but I like what you're doing. I think this might be headed to good places. That's another way I've seen investors be super skillful.

Right? And also incur now don't say that if it's not true, but if it is true, as opposed to like, oh, they're close and they don't really check the boxes, but I like what they're doing Instead of stringing them along, just try the

not

yet option and say, give it a timeframe. Please give me an update. And that is such a gift to give an entrepreneur if you are on the sort of fence, whether this is like a good fit for you or not.

Or even too, one of the things that I I encouraged in our SOCAT community is if you're an investor being approached by an entrepreneur and you're like, oh, this isn't a good fit for us, but I know someone that this would be perfect for. Let me provide an introduction. Because, you know, if if an introduction is coming from someone you know and trust already that's working in the same space and has the same knowledge and term you know, use the same language, it's way it's a it's a it's a higher probability that that per the email will be read and responded to in a favorable way. Right? And so I think just taking the time to take that extra step only takes a few minutes now in our age of technology and but it's a huge benefit to both the entrepreneur, but also to that potential investor who might add another company to their portfolio.

Yeah. Such a great suggestion, Sarah. Just just thank you for bringing that and investors. So one of the ways caring and, and dedicated investors can have an impact over and above whatever direct investments they make is you probably have colleagues, you probably are at conferences, you're probably getting pinged on LinkedIn, you're probably getting newsletters, and, hey, I I'm not the right person, but, you know, we're not the right fund, but have you seen this, or can I introduce you to? Just such a great suggestion. Thank you.

Yeah. And I think too on the entrepreneur side, it's the same thing because entrepreneurs also say like, oh, there's no one who will invest in us. But one of the things we do as part of our fellowship program is we really try to create that that sense of peer community and trust so that people want to help each other. And so what we do is even at the in person events or even virtually, if if you meet someone and you know that someone else in the cohort would be a good fit, mention them and offer to make that introduction and and just be be trusting and open with sharing, you know, what are your challenges and what's worked well for you and, you know, what type of models have you used in the past? What's worked? What hasn't? Because I think, especially culturally in a lot of countries globally, there's a lot of mistrust in the entrepreneurship realm. And so we're really trying to to bring trust back into the equation.

Beautiful. Let's do this, Sarah. In a moment, I wanna hear about that more about the fellowship program, which you just mentioned, such a great program and specifically this trust building, because I I there's so much in what you said, and I wanna unpack it a little more. Let's just take a quick break. I wanna hear a word from our sponsor. And when we come back, I wanna hear more about the fellowship program. Are you facing 1 or more important decisions in your impact business? And you'd like an experienced thought partner to develop a plan about how to proceed in the complex times we're living. But you don't feel the need for an extended coaching or consulting contract that's gonna cost you many 1,000 of dollars.

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And that's sort of like, I don't know, a US reference would be like the lone ranger, right? The lone Wolf type environment approach to being a founder in the impact space. And then at least what I see is then we get the same mistakes over and over again. Right. And I always say to clients, let's make new and different mistakes, but let's learn from the ones that have been made a lot so that we can get you to a place, a, that you're having the impact and also to save everybody a lot more suffering. So you're you're really building that culture in the SOCAP fellowship. Tell us a little bit about the SOCAP fellowship and how specifically, how do you build trust with cohort of folks who oftentimes the default is you're the lone founder or maybe your co founders it's you against the world, right? That, that it can feel like that in a lot of startups. So how do you create a different kind of culture at the SOCAP fellowship?

Yeah. So the the SOCAP fellowship is actually, has been a a very long evolutionary process for SOCAP itself. So I took it over in 2015 when I joined the team at SOCAP, but it's been around since almost the very beginning of SoCAPP itself. And it started off as a a basic scholarship program to really just improve diversity and access to the conference for social founders. So we used to have a cohort of a 150 social entrepreneurs that we would select from 800 applications from all over the globe just to make sure that they would get the most value out of attending the event. They were actively investing, and they had models that really made sense for the types of attendees that would would attend. And then we would provide housing for about 80% of the cohort, especially for international travelers and free tickets to attend the event. But we didn't really do that much beyond just opening a door and saying, you know, welcome.

Come join us. Right? And so over the years, especially leading up to to COVID, which we didn't know it was gonna happen at the time, obviously, but I would get feedback every single year that entrepreneurs would say it's not enough. You know, I need a I need more, like, connections and And And we did do a full day in person orientation with a bunch of deep dive sessions around specific topics like pitching and impact measurement and, you know, wellness for founders. But again, it was the day before SOCAP. And so it's like, well, what can you do with that? Now you're thrust into the sea of 3,000 people, and maybe you've never even been to the US before necessarily. Right? And so what we did during COVID, obviously, everything was virtual. And I think the one positive thing, at least for us as a conference organizer during COVID, is it really made people open up to receiving content virtually. And so when we came back to being in person in 2022, you know, we really took a hard look and and SOCAP went through a major merger with the Sorenson the Sorenson Institute to think about how can we really use this program as a vehicle to support founders and and make active connections with funders at SoCap to showcase the impact and value add that we have as a conference organizer.

And so I reached out to our alumni community, which was about 900 alumni founders that had gone to SOCAT previously. They're virtually or in person. And I just asked them the basic question of, you know, thinking back to your first time coming to SOCAP, what would you have liked to have received virtually as support before coming to SOCAP? And a lot of the responses were about not necessarily about content, although we did create 6 strategy tracks at the time to focus on based off of the responses, but a lot of it was connections, like, meaningful curated connections to funders and also connections to each other. Like, who else is in this space so that I don't feel so alone and so that I know I can learn from and reach out to others in the same space. And so in 2022, 2023, we really piloted out doing an entire virtual program. So like last year, we did a little too much. We got really excited about this concept. We did 6 months of virtual programming.

We had over 45 sessions led by individual facilitators, and the tracks were holistic wellness for founders, growing and scaling your venture, team and culture, development and leadership, impact measurement, investment readiness, and then also marketing storytelling communications, which is where, like, the pitching networking aspect came in as well. And we got feedback that was way too much, but it was really the first time where we saw a really strong, well knit community of founders. And the other thing I should mention too is we cut way back 2 40 founders instead of a 150, so we could provide more 1 on 1 services and support. And that's also why we've cut back again both on content because it's too much of a time commitment for the founders. But, also, we've cut back to 20 because we really do wanna be able to provide that really individualized service and helping them think through what types of connections they want to make, whether it's for funding or or other types of partnerships, and really connect them to one another. Right? And so I think the secret sauce of the fellowship on the one side is really building that peer community of people from all over the globe, but that are all struggling with the same challenges. And that's why we always start with the wellness track because we get people to really open up and break the ice and be vulnerable, and I usually lead the charge because I'm a crier. Like, I'm very comfortable with being vulnerable in in a public situation.

So I think that helps a little bit. But talking about, like, imposter syndrome and burnout as a leader and how to really manage team culture is something that we focus on to really set the tone. And then we go into more practicalities of, like, you know, legal structure and terminology and term sheets and impact measurement 101 and platforms that are available. And the and the beautiful thing is the sessions are led by members of our community. And so they also are service providers that offer discounts to both our entrepreneurs and partner cohorts. So we have accelerators and fellowship programs and and impact investment funds that will pay to have a cohort of their entrepreneurs participate in our program. So we get a variety of different models and different geographies present along with our 20. Last year, we had 80 total, but we had, you know, incredible founders from Japan and Mexico and Haiti and mixed cohorts from Cartier Women's Initiative and Miller Center For Social Entrepreneurship.

And so you get really, really cool innovations, and they get to see each other pitch and present too. And so I'll hear from, like, my entrepreneurs, like, oh, the the Cartier, they had an amazing pitch. I'm gonna I'm gonna copy their structure of how they do it. You know? And so they they really do get to learn from one another, and and our virtual sessions are always workshop based. So they have resources and templates that they can use, and they're really learning from one another instead of just being talked at, which I think is a big a big difference of our program. And they're supposed to be additive to programs that already exist. So we're not an accelerator. We are a fellowship because it is educational and we provide a lot of opportunities both virtually and as well as in person.

But we're not trying to take someone that's never done this before and train them on how to do it. Right? They have to be investment ready because that's what our the investment community that comes to SOCAP is looking for. They're looking for pipeline opportunities, and they wanna make sure that the enterprises that we're bringing both from our cohort and partner cohorts really have, like, you know, have their financials in place, have all the documents that they're going to need to be able to do that due diligence process. And I think most importantly, which is why we're really trying to get the word out about the fellowship, especially with our own community, is that if one of our entrepreneurs approaches you, it's because they've done their due diligence. They know that you're a good fit, you know, and and that you should engage with them. Right? Like, take the time and energy even though it it is a lot to ask of someone, but take that time

Yeah.

And give them feedback even if, you know, maybe they're not the perfect, perfect fit for investment right now, like you said. Maybe they're later like, oh, as soon as I finish my fundraising cycle, yeah, I wanna invest in you. Right? But, like, taking that time to make those connections for them. And that's the other side of the equation is all of our entrepreneurs as well as partner cohorts really get that curated service of matchmaking. So we have an amazing partnership with Tonic for our cohort and any partner cohorts that want to add that to their partnership package where they have a deal matchmaking platform that they use. And so any accredited investor who's attending SoCal gets to use that SDGs and other investment criteria with both our founders who are selected by a committee of investors. So they are investment ready. They've been vetted by other investors in the community.

And then, you know, same with, the partner cohorts. Our partner cohorts are always very, very high quality, well recognized accelerator incubators and and foundations and prize competitions, etcetera. So the entrepreneurs that are joining us, whether they're ours or partners, are the best of the best and the most innovative and scalable and just inspiring people that exist.

Speaking of inspiring, just the amount of care and support that you're providing in the fellowship, it's, it's inspiring. You're doing a great job and anybody who's listening, go check out the fellowship will be in the link in the show notes and go check it out because it's a really incredible opportunity for, you know, anybody who's at so cap. So consider about, you know, if there's a way you can be there, but if you are a little further developed and you are investment ready, go check out that fellowship because it can be game changing to be the divide between funders and founders is create an awesome community that's been going on for decades and is a conference of 3,000 people to support all this infrastructure. Right? What would you say for somebody, obviously check out SOCAP and see if you can, how you might plug in. You know, like for instance, I'm in New Mexico. Right? They call us the 1st majority minority majority minority state of dyslexic, which means we have the highest proportion of people of color in the US. Right. It's a majority of people of color and and we're, you know, historically towards the bottom economically.

So there's a lot of informal things we're trying to do, but we don't have the sort of formal infrastructure on a quite such a regular basis as a San Francisco or in New York. Right? What what would you say to somebody who's in less developed impact economy and they're trying to figure out, Hey, I wanna play well. I, whichever side I'm on, either I'm a funder or a founder, but the, you know, the, the ecosystem I'm part of, there's not a regular leader that can play this role of matchmaker. What would you say to somebody who has those kind of thoughts?

Like you mentioned, there's a ton of events and other types of resources in terms of the education portion. Right? And so there's a lot of, you know, Impact Entrepreneur, Impact Alpha. There's a lot of, like, newsletters, this podcast, for example. There's a lot of ways in which you can educate yourself and find those those connecting connector points. I mean, there's even a lot of people that are getting into more traditional banking, but only using their investment power for good, you know, for impact. And so you can do a lot of research of just where to invest your dollars more wisely or if, you know, universities can divest all of all of those movements if you're a student. And I think too, like, you know, my my little brother is in traditional investment advisory services, but, like, pushing internally. Like, hey.

Like, asking the question. You know, I've been reading a lot doing a lot of research around this topic? Because it is it is a trend and it's growing very steadily. It is taking over a larger portion of the investment, you know, high globally every single year. And there's a lot of statistics that prove that impact investment funds are actually a safer vehicle for investment than traditional investment funds. If you look at the economic downturns that we've been through recently on a global level, Impact's investment funds were probably one of the areas that didn't actually lose a lot of investment opportunities. Right? Yep. So I think, yeah, again, like, one is, you know, just educating yourself. We live in the era of information.

Right? And it's almost information overload at times. But if you can find a few people even to follow on LinkedIn, there's a lot of really sort of institutional impact investment organizations like Acumen. They have free classes actually, Acumen Academies. There's actually a lot of, like, free resources and courses that you can take. And then 2, I I really am of the opinion that, you know, social entrepreneurs exist everywhere. Whether or not they identify themselves as such is another thing, but I bet someone in your social circle is a social entrepreneur. And just sitting down with them and learning from them in sort of an informal interview style type of way or or even, you know, hey, you wanna you wanna reach out to me? Feel free, and we can have a conversation. I do it all the time for, especially for people getting into the space or looking to change careers.

I do a lot of informational, you know, not interviews, but just conversations around what's happening in the space. Right? And, like, how can you get more involved from a career perspective. So, yeah, I think there's a lot of ways in which to do that. And there's a lot of champions like smaller localized events like ConnectUp Minnesota. So they have a similar ecosystem in the sense of, like, what you were saying, Paul, for New Mexico. Like, they're trying to build an event, an annual event to bring people in Minnesota together. And it's a very localized and very focused type of event, but it's to educate people about the the impact opportunities that are available locally. And they actually get people from outside of Minnesota who join.

So I think also looking at, you know, opportunities and events that are happening locally or chamber of commerce type of of events is is a really great way to get more involved and just and know what's happening.

Beautiful. So love what you're saying there, Sarah, just wanna cosign. So go check out Sokap if that's in the cards for you. But if not, like you said, there's incredible podcasts, both on the impact investing and social entrepreneur side of things way more than when I started 16 years ago in my business and informal networking, as well as plugging into your local startup ecosystem. So like Thursday night here in New Mexico, we have startup Fiesta, which is one of the biggest startup events in the state, several 100 people. And it is not on the surface impact oriented at all. But what you're saying, just because of who lives in this state, you know, part of it, I love being here, but also we've just seen expectations move about, you know, more and more, especially for people under 40, want to work for a company that has some sense of clear values. Is it officially lined up with one of the SDGs? Maybe, maybe not.

But we know that young people earlier in their career are just off the charts hunger for doing something meaningful. So if you are, you know, paying attention and you go to a startup event, somebody in that room, probably a lot of somebodies are gonna share some of the values. Yes. It's a little more work than saying here's an entire 3,000 person conference just dedicated to founders and investors all focused around impact. So go if you can, but if that's not in the cards for you, then leverage your local startup scene and or, and or investor networks and talk to people. Okay. Who else is interested in this? Because I guarantee you, no matter where you live, somebody will be, even if it's not a 100% of the people in that room. So

Mhmm. Exactly. Yeah. And there's a lot of membership organizations too. I forgot to mention, like, if you are a small business owner, even if you don't identify necessarily as a as a social enterprise, but you're in that social impact space, like, Social Enterprise Alliance is an amazing membership community and spans all over it's North America focused as well. So for North America users, it's really an amazing resource. I'm on on their board of directors. So a little plug for them, but they have a lot of free resources for their members, and they have events too locally.

So, you know, there's a lot of those those types of organizations too.

Awesome. And like you said, I do quite a bit of just meeting with people. And for instance, in the climate space, go on LinkedIn. There's a hashtag open door climate. Right? Where anybody who's who's posting about that is in general unavailable person, and you'll see some incredible on both sides of the aisle, whether they're funders or founders, people who care about climate and say, Hey, if you care and you bring some skills to the conversation, I'll talk to anybody in the world for free. And you can find people like that. You know, that's one example, but I see a lot of that across the impact space. It's most visible in the climate space with that hashtag, but it I see that.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think too, finally, because this is something that was sparked by something you said, Paul, is like, if you if you are, like, later stage in your career as well, you can be a mentor. And so there's a lot of these accelerator programs that do mentorship online or even like micro mentor. It's free. I mean, it's it takes time, obviously, so it's not a 100% free. But, like, Miller Center For Social Entrepreneurship has an incredible men mentor network, and they're always looking for men mentors for their social enterprises. And just because you may not know anything about the social entrepreneurship space, if you have business acumen or any sort of investment background or sector specific, industry specific knowledge Yeah. That's a huge wealth of information for an entrepreneur who's just getting started or wanting to scale and grow their business.

And I think mentorship is an amazing way to also dip your toe into the space.

100%. Sorry. Couldn't agree more, and I personally do that in variety of ways that are not the focus of this podcast. But I can say, honestly, yes, I do that. And yes, I would encourage other folks who have more established networks have, you know, further along in their career. Anything you can do to help build the ecosystem is just much appreciated. Well, sir, I could hang out and talk to you all day. You're doing such great work and you're busy.

Our listeners are busy. So as a way to wind down, if there was something you were hoping we were gonna talk to, you know, obviously the fellowship, the link will be in the show notes. So cap will be in the show notes. Right? Social enterprise Alliance will be in the show notes. So all the links, we we we will get people where they need to go in terms of getting more information. But if there was something else about what's happening in this space and how funders and founders can be more connected and more supportive, and we haven't touched on it yet, Or a little view ahead as somebody who's like, literally, I mean, you built this or at least had a big role in building this fellowship as somebody who's on the leading edge, what do you see might be coming in the next 3 to 5 years in the impact space, as it relates to both investors and entrepreneurs?

Yeah. I mean, I think I just I would love to reiterate just building be a part of building that community of trust, you know, really on both sides, really putting yourself out there and being open to making connections even if it's not gonna be an immediate, you know, return on your investment socially and professionally, because that's, I think, the only way we're gonna be able to move capital. Right? And I think that's a big I know for our community at SOCAP, that's always something that we're looking at is, like, how is capital flowing based off of people attending our event? Because we need capital to flow to into these social enterprises so that they can do the work on the ground and scale and grow the impact that they're doing, whether that's scaling in terms of scaling up in numbers or scaling deep. Right? And I think we don't talk enough about going really deep in impact and being in a specific community for many, many years because impact takes can take sometimes generations to really appear and really be able to measure it in a, in a really statistical meaningful way. So I think, yeah, being being open to those connections and really opening up your own network to others to really help catalyze be a catalyst for for making connections for people. Right? That's what I do on a daily basis, and it's the joy of my my life to be able to put 2 people together and and watch those sparks fly. So I think if more people did that on their own, we'd have a lot more scalable impact happening in the world. Right? And then I think in terms of future facing, I touched on this at the very beginning, so it's we're kind of coming full circle here.

But one of the one of the areas where we're seeing a little bit more investment, but I'd love to see a lot more investment of time and time and energy on both sides is impact measurement. I think we haven't learned the lesson of, you know, the international development community and their their lack of making progress or even the SDGs. Right? Everyone talks about the SDGs. We're in, like, the 2nd round now. What what sort of improvement have we really seen? And the only way to really see that is through impact measurement and really having, you know, baseline data to compare things to. And I think because social entrepreneurs and impact investors don't necessarily always come from that, you know, either economic development, statistical background, it's really hard to know how to get started and how to actually do it in the quote, unquote right way so that you can prove that you've actually created unique impact by your intervention. And I think in the next couple of years, people are going to start questioning, is this really making a difference or not? And if we don't have the data to back that up, that's my biggest worry is we're we're not gonna be able to prove it. Even if we know it and we see it on a daily basis, like as a social entrepreneur or as an investor, it's like, no.

No. Like, I know that I've created impact. But if you don't have a justifiable, quantitative, and also qualitative way of showcasing that, you're not gonna be able to convince people, especially people who are debating if they want to start investing their own money. You know, average average average guy, gal, whatever, right, to get into the space. It's it's going to be a day of reckoning if we don't figure out a way to really, you know, create those definitions. Because we're still struggling around what is the definition for impact investing. What is the definition for social entrepreneurship? There's a lot of debate still around what qualifies, what doesn't qualify. And I don't think we need one one unified definition for everything because there's a lot of cultural and geographical and economic considerations to take into account, but at least having, you know, I think Iris and gears and all of these sort of not the sources, but like encyclopedias of terminology are helpful to create an a common language.

But a lot of the the data, even that Impact Investors asked for is pretty basic business data. It's not actually Impact data. And I think too, investors and entrepreneurs need to do a better job of measuring the long term data that they that they're creating to be able to showcase impact because impact really doesn't take place in 1 or 2 years, which is most, you know, most investment contracts are 1 to 2 year periods. Right? Because they want that rate of return, they want the turnover, they want to reinvest their money. But there's something to be said for investors who really do invest that time and energy in in following up with their portfolio companies even after they've exited of but it's actually part a unique and intricate and interconnected part of my business model to measure impact. And how do you do that in a way that flows with your business? And then I think too, one last thing that I'll say that was sparked by something we were talking about before is this getting rid of the star entrepreneur myth. You know, I love the book Outliers because it actually showcases that outliers are not actually outliers. Like, no one does things all by themselves, and everyone receives some sort of support at some point in their lives to set them up on the path of where they go.

And so I think if you are considered a star entrepreneur, being more vulnerable and open about how hard it can be to being, being a founder in the road that you've had to carve and the people who helped you along the way to really demystify that entire process because it's a really toxic part of entrepreneurship culture. And it puts a lot of pressure on people to think that they have to, you know, grow on scale in just a few years or they're not successful or they're gonna crash and burn or they're failures. And and, you know, I think star entrepreneurs make it look easy. And I know for for a fact, after talking with a lot of star entrepreneurs, that it's not easy at all. And so I think being a lot more open around around that and and, again, like creating that culture of trust and creating that culture of support between your peers in the entrepreneurship realm, and even to some extent in the impact investment realm is super, super important.

Right. Well, Sarah, thank you so much for being on the show today. I've shared so many great strategies and just so much wisdom from your many, many years on the front lines. Really appreciate you sharing that with us today.

Thanks, Paul. So great to be able to speak with you as well and have this amazing community to, to just be able to share knowledge with.

So entrepreneurs go check out, especially the fellowship, if you are investment ready, that is quite an opportunity. And everybody go check out SoCap and all the good work that's happening there. You don't have to be at a certain phase. You can there's a wider spectrum of just anybody's interested in the impact investing side or the social entrepreneur side. The largest gathering on the planet that I'm aware of with the, with both of those, you know, a very substantial number of, both looking to collaborate. So just about a user and about a SOCAP for creating that kind of community. So we'll put all that in the show note. Before we go, I just wanna remind you, we love listeners suggested topics and guests.

I don't know why more hosts don't have, but this is your show. Like, tell us, who do you want to unpack? Right? The we have 3 simple guidelines. Just go to the Awarepreneur's website, go to our contact page. We're really transparent about what we're looking for. So please send in your ideas. And before we say goodbye, just want to say thank you so much for listening. Please take really good care in these intense times, and thank you for all the positive impact that you're working for in our work.