Pat Lalama

So today, on Inspiring Women, we are honored to welcome Pat LaLama. And she's an Emmy Awarding winning journalist, TV host, and investigative reporter whose career has been defined by fearless story telling and a passion for uncovering the truth. With decades of experience in broadcast journalism, Pat has covered some of the most high profile stories across the nation, earning the respect of her peers and audiences alike. But before she became a recognized face on national television, Pat was a small town girl from, just like me, Westerville, Ohio. And she walked the same halls at Westerville South that I did and even, but she was really known for her drive, her intellectual her intellect, and her curiosity. It's always inspiring to see how somebody from familiar roots can reach and and and go into incredible heights, proving passion and perseverance, truly knows no bounds, and that is Pat. In addition to her work in journalism, Pat is a dedicated advocate for empowering women, my favorite kind of women, especially in media and beyond. And today, she's gonna share insights from her journey, what it took to break into the industries, the lessons that she's learned along the way, and her advice for striving others to make their mark.

We are only as good in our world when women support women, and women help women come along, and women make sure that we are not just on our own at the top. We're bringing people there. And so I'm as you know, I'm passionate about the empowerment of women and women who do that for other women, and that would be Pat. So, Pat, welcome today to, inspiring women with Betty Collins. We are thrilled that you are coming to us today. Even today, you are rocking it. You're moving. You're shaking, and you really accommodate it to make sure you could be on this podcast today.

So I totally appreciate it. So No worries. A great conversation for the listeners. I think you guys are really gonna enjoy her, and, I would really make sure you look her up and see where what things she's done. Pretty pretty amazing stuff. So but throughout your career as an investigative journalist, you know, I had interviewed and have a client who was with the BBC. So it's very I always love to hear the perspective from the journalist. You're you know, you tackle complex and often emotionally changed, charged stories.

So what personal challenges, you know, have you faced, and how did you rise above them to inspire others?

I first of all, thank you so much for inviting me. And it's it's so wonderful that you talk about the empowerment of women because back in 1977 when I got my first job in that broadcasting at WNCI Radio in Columbus,

Ohio Okay. Yes.

With Bob Nunley as the the the disc jockey. May he rest in peace. I loved him. I remember saying to myself that I had two endeavors. One was to inform and educate the public, not to try to influence their opinions like so many media do today, and I'm very unhappy about that.

Yep.

Inform and educate with vetted facts and let the viewer decide. I'm not gonna tell you which candidate meets your approval. I'm not gonna tell you which policy issue or, ballot issue is you I want only to give you enough good information that you can make the choice for your life. I still have that written down. I wrote it in 1977 when I graduated from the Ohio State University. And and I have tried so hard all these years to stay true to that. The second thing is that I swore that I was going because at the time, women were not as prominent in television. And and when they were, they were relegated to, don't be offended, what I called back then and still do call them chick stories.

The Yeah. And I'll explain that in a minute. It's what I told my first boss when he hired me. But Yeah. I said I want to make this, an open door for women. And, and and because of that, I refused when I saw all my colleagues starting to get Botox and face lifts and face lifts and popping up their lips. And I thought, no. I'm gonna prove that you can stay in the business without doing that.

And I am now 70 years old. I have never had work done. And I don't care. I don't care. I see that my peers, God bless them, that's their choice. I don't care what they do for themselves. But I it's like it's almost like a personal challenge to me to see how far I can go based on my abilities. And that is the greatest lesson.

I think I'm pretty fearless. I have never been mainstream. I don't I'm not a sheep. I'm a I do what I wanna do. You have to be thin thick skinned. I mean, I've had all kinds of you know, I have been hired and fired over the last, what, forty six years. Because if you choose to be on camera, you are fodder for firing because you may remind your next boss you might remind him of his ex wife, and he just forgot arbitrary reason. Doesn't want to on his air.

It's it's like that. And I just was going to I was going to make my mark and be different. The the flip side of that was what what encouraged me was a dysfunctional upbringing. Mhmm. I was never beaten or abused, but there was a lot of emotional negligence there. I, you know, basically I I was one of those kids who was raising her parents, basically. Oh, gosh. And I'm sure you under you know, I I I was the boss, and I took care of my brothers.

Yeah.

And and, again, it I don't wanna miss I don't wanna falsely portray my family. There was love. There was music. We were crazy Italians, but there wasn't the kind of nurturing that kids need. And because of that, when I was young, I was very insecure about myself. I was bullied in grade school and high school Mhmm. At Westerville. The there was a certain group of, you know, popular chicks who were nasty.

I got voted onto the homecoming court, and they just went berserk. I mean, the rumors they and I got voted onto the homecoming court because I was nice to everybody. I wasn't in the popular clique. I was just really Right. I love people, and that came from my need to, you know, what I was looking for love. I'm I'm not I am absolutely not ashamed to say this in any way. I needed acceptance, and I knew I was gonna make a mark. And I was impassioned, and I always had a I I turned into a pitbull.

I had a lot to say. I had something to prove, and, I was not gonna be stopped. And this all came from insecurity. And I'm fine with that. I don't think bad things and when I say bad, again, it's not like I mean, I I should be more careful about how because people are gonna go, oh, poor bad. Oh, I'm just grew up in this horrible no. Yeah. No.

No. No. It was just more like, you I didn't get the proper nurturing that I needed. Because, you know, my parents were Italians who got married too young. They had their

own issues.

You know? There was Right. And and so that's that. All I'm saying is that your demons can end up being your, your best friend if you know how to make it happen like that. Right? And I've always done I mean, I remember when I got my first job in television, I went home and I said, oh my god. Don't they know I'm ugly and incapable? But for some reason, I kept going. So so I was like, you know, fueled by that insecurity, yet at the same time knew I could make something good happen.

Yeah.

And and so I went to channel six in Columbus, which was then WTVN

Yeah.

ITV. And I became the main anchor there. But, wait, but let me tell you this little story in talking about empowering women. So my first job was at WNCI Radio, as I mentioned, right out. In fact, they hired me before I graduated from Ohio State as as a cub reporter. And the news director, I'm still friends with him today, Tom Rizzo.

Love it.

I had heard, well, can I go back a little? Because Absolutely. I wish I had six hours because you can't shut me up. But

You're the guest. Do your thing.

I had to pay my own way through college. Right? Sure. And took the bus down to the campus every day and did a full load, eight, nine, ten, eleven o'clock classes, then took a bus to WNCI where I was a cub reporter, then took a bus to the wine cellar restaurant where I was a waitress which paid all my bills.

The wine cellar. I can remember going there.

Yes. It was a great fun place.

Yeah.

And, and I don't know if I could do that today, but I people like, young people today go, what? Because, you know, they

Right.

Young kids are made of something, sadly different. Not all. I've met some very, very strong and determined, young women and men, but but you did that. I did that. I knew I wanted this. And no one will succeed in anything if they don't have passion. If you don't love if you don't love what you're doing, it it doesn't matter. You'll you'll be miserable.

And it and it's it really I knew I wanted to storytell, and I developed this great ability to talk and communicate

with people.

I'm the kind of person who gets in an elevator, and I've made three friends by the time I get to the First Floor. I love to interact.

Right.

And I felt that I needed a voice. I had some really strong opinions. I grew up Catholic. I despise that the Catholic church was telling my mother that she had to take birth control because we were poor when I was first growing up. We didn't matter later. And we had too many kids in a house that you know? And I remember the priest coming around saying, oh, you know, birth control is a sin. I'm like, what the hell? I would think any God would want to us to responsibly procreate. Right?

Yeah.

And I I went to my parents, and and and I hope I'm not offending any Catholics, but I'm a loud mouth and I'm opinionated and I'm a journalist. I'm just telling you, if you don't wanna hear it

If you wanna hear it, go for it.

Yeah. And and so I thought, oh, I I need to start writing this stuff down. And that's kinda how I got interested in journalism. I love to talk. I love to connect. I had a voice. I was forming some really strong opinions. Not that I would ever show an opinion in my journalism, but I knew that I would be the kind of people person who would look for the truth of the matter.

Right.

Right?

Right.

And, and I I have always lived with that. So, anyway, when my boss at WNCI finally gave me the full time job, I said, well, thanks, Tom. But, I have to I have to say I have one demand. I was just in, like, 1977. I'm making demands. Right?

Let's do it.

And he and but that's how I but that's the news directors who weren't intimidated by my strengths and and they they were the ones who hired me. There are a lot of men in the business who thought, like, woah. You know? I wasn't demure you remember Christine Croft? Remember she was the first anchor to get fired, and she said it they told her she was not not beautiful enough and not deferential enough to men. Right? I have never showed any kind of I have always been just as I am now. Right? Yeah. And back in the day, only certain male bosses could take that. And and I'm still friends with all of them, actually. But, anyway, I said, Tom, thank you for hiring me.

This is everything I've ever wanted. And, but I I just have to tell you, I don't do chick stories. And he said and he was an Italian guy like me. Right? But, you know, he goes, what? I said, I don't I don't do chick stories. And he said, what do you mean? I said, I'm not gonna do any feature story on Jane Fonda's workout, which was hot at the time. Right? I'm not gonna do the latest in breastfeeding techno you know, technology. I'm not gonna do, you know, any of the stuff that is that you see on TV today that the morning like, the, you know, the Katie Courts you're talking about. And he said, well, okay.

Write up a proposal. And so I did. And at the time, I was very interested in politics, and I told him why I really wanted to pursue politics. And he gave me the keys to the news card. I said, alright. Go find a story. So I drove down to the Statehouse downtown in Columbus, started knocking on doors, introducing myself to legislators. John Kasich was one of the first persons I met.

We became friends, actually. Good. And, I learned to develop my own stories. Nobody ever assigned me. I always said we should do this. We should do this. Yeah. We should do this.

And, from there, it just it just took off. So I went from Columbus local news to Boston local news, Chicago local news, LA, local news, but then moved up into the network arena with, you know, like, I've been on trillion shows. And currently work for ABC News and the TV show twenty twenty, which is a dream a dream job.

Sure.

Dream job for me.

Well, what I hear from you is, you know, we talked about, you know, what were the personal challenge. Here's the emotions behind things. You're emotionally charged. You're a storyteller. And what women need to hear is, you know, a lot of times when they see someone confident or they see someone like, you know, who you are, what you're doing. But what you did was and I loved how you said this. I gotta use this somewhere. You took your demons and you took that and turned them into passion.

Right? That passion, that emotion. Right.

And you I turned it into a positive driving force.

Yes. Yes.

Yeah. I face the enemy. Face the enemy is the term that I always use.

And too many people, and women especially, I deal with it on a daily basis because 50% of women in Brady were are or 50% of our team are women, and it's a confidence issue constantly. And they're paralyzed by those those demons or those emotions, and they don't use it to their advantage. Right. And and I'm gonna learn from this. And then when I learn from it and do it, I'm now gonna tell other women. This is what you do with those passions. This is what you do with those things that maybe weren't fair, etcetera, etcetera. Because, you know, the fact that you were able to, in the seventies, tell Tom, I'm not gonna do and be this standard in the box person that you think I might be by I'm gonna talk about, you know, the greatest thing there is for women, whatever that is at the day, whether like you said, Jane Fonda.

Nothing wrong with Jane Fonda. Nothing wrong with them with that.

I don't disparage any of those topics I brought

up. Right. I

just was not gonna be relegated to that as most women in journalism were at the time.

Right. Because they thought that'll get me in the door. Right. You started right from the beginning. So you took those, you know, that emotion. And then because you knew you wanted to be a storyteller, and you're gonna tell your story, not only your story. You're gonna tell the story you wanted to tell.

So that

you know, so women in the audience learn from that. Take the things that you think are holding you back. Take the things that you look at negatives and turn them into positives and and set the stage.

Demons are the strongest tools in your favor if you know how to manipulate the demons. And I had to do a lot of talk I mean, listen. To this day, I have insecurities.

Yeah.

But but they don't control me.

Right. I control them.

I control them.

Yeah. Yep. But the driver, demons could be your drivers. That's that's a great line. I've it's probably been out there. I just haven't heard it. Right? But you've told so many stories. Go ahead.

Let me just say this. Yeah. In 02/2016, my husband, a very prominent criminal defense attorney, love of my life, the only I I didn't get married to well into my 40s because I didn't want to. But he was he was the only one who could change my mind. I raised his two boys, four and six

years old.

And, he took his own life in 02/2016. And I found him, and I knew it was happening. I knew it was coming. It was a long struggle. And, it also drove me to to do better.

Yeah.

I mean, and and it wasn't just the suicide. When you live with someone who has issues like that, a lot of your life is consumed by trying to help them and take care of them. And I kept doing it and kept doing it, but after his death, I took six weeks to clear my mind and try to get it right and went right back to work, and I felt like a better person, a stronger person, a person who was more empathetic, more sympathetic, and made me I feel like I'm a better journalist now because of it. And that's one of the worst things that can happen to a person, a suicide. But I I I looked up at Tony and said, I'm using this to do better and went to twenty twenty ABC News.

Love it. Love it. Well, you told I mean, that's amazing story in itself. We could probably go through that whole thing, but you've told a lot of impactful stories, that resonate with your audiences. You know, how do you decide which story to pursue, And and what makes it powerful? You know? What makes it inspirational?

Okay. There's a good answer to that in terms of, I am now mostly focused on criminal justice. So

Okay.

And there is no greater arena for where the human condition is presented on a silver platter than in a courtroom. When you look at people and go, how did how did this how did your life get you to this? You would right now, as we speak, I'm covering a very sensational murder trial of a, a man named Fabio Cementilli who's from he and his family from were from Toronto. He was he got a big promotion at Procter and Gamble, the Wella haircare line. And, he moved his wife and two daughters here to Los Angeles where, you know, he was able to continue pursuing his career.

Yeah.

The wife ends up having an affair with her racquetball coach and, allegedly, because the trial is still going on

Right.

Had the racquetball coach, who's a convicted sex offender, kill her husband. So that's the trial I'm on now. Now you might say, oh, salacious. TV's always picking the salacious. Yes. Yes. We do pick cases that have sometimes salaciousness, grit, you know, shock value. That's true.

But the way that I justified is I've spent the last twenty five years really teaching people about how the criminal justice process works. I have this unique ability to I'm not a lawyer. I'm too ADD to have gotten through law school. Yeah. But I've I've developed my niche, which has allowed me to to make it there are very few people who do what I do. And that is know how to sit through a trial and listen to all the legalese and bring it to the audience in the fairest, most balanced fashion, but inject some color and my Sure. Storytelling ability, but to show people how the system works and how oftentimes it doesn't work. Right? I covered OJ.

Right? So, and, yes, there's a lot of drama and provocativeness in covering murders, but I love our criminal justice system. I I know it has flaws, but I think it's the best there is. And a lot of people don't understand it. And I think every day when I tell a story about a crime, I explain how this works and why that was allowed to be told and and why that was excluded and what the defense attorney meant by this. But more importantly, I think that when I do my pieces on criminal justice, I offer and because I've been around so long, I've I have I can wear the opinion hat sometimes, but Mhmm. Only because I've been around for forty seven years. And it's only after the trial is over. Right? Yeah.

Because I can't be opinionated before that. But this is what I love the most. The room is Shakespearean. Every murder case, you can pull from the flaws of humanity. What, again, why did Monica Simantilli get so crazed over this racquetball guy who's a criminal and let leave her what's and here's what I wanna know. Something must have happened in her childhood, right, that that allowed her to mastermind her husband being slashed to death in his favorite chair on the patio in their beautiful home in Woodland Hills, California. What made her design it, allegedly, so that her 16 year old daughter would be the one to come home and find him? What happened to that person? So I don't just cover the law Right. And how the I want to delve into human nature.

I have sat on death row with people just just relentlessly intrigued by the stories that a lot of these people have to tell. I'm not saying it's forgives that, you know, that, oh, you should get out of prison. Yeah. But I think we need to look at here's another example. Okay. Guy's a serial killer. Rather than just doing the salacious job of telling how he killed 15 people, let's go back to his life, his childhood. Where did things go wrong? Who didn't get him the help he needed? When he started failing in school or you find out he had been Yeah.

You know, molested by his dad or there's always a case. There's always a story. Right. And if we could start identifying those things before people get in trouble, then we would have a safer and better society, wouldn't we?

Right. And a

happier society. We tend to do everything band aid. Let people get messed up, commit crimes, ruin their lives, become addicts, and then we go, oh, well, let's put money in this program. No. We need to be identifying the stuff early on. So I always try to inject that kind of understanding of the human condition.

Well, I I say that, you know, people are very critical or not about homelessness. Right? Uh-huh. I kind of think that say what you do. I go, how does one get there? Like, how do they get there? And a lot of times, probably, if they had any kind of data or they really wanted to jump in, they'd be going, is there mental health or not? Is there drugs or not? And and then Absolutely.

And most of it is drugs and mental health.

Right. And so if we dealt with those things, that's what you're saying. Yeah. Interesting. And and and people love right now or hate the whole judicial system because they're like, what's happening to our institutions? And you just it scares you. Right? So I love your approach, though, as to the I I hear you saying, I look for the why as well, not just cover the facts. I mean, you cover the facts, obviously. A couple

of facts, but but it's there's more to the story. Right. I mean and, you know, look, just speaking of homeless, which we have a critical crisis here. I they live in my I live in in West Hollywood. You know? I I there are many I say I do. You know? But, I I I have no scourge feeling for those people. However, I have a lot of scourge for how government operates. We have they assigned $23,000,000,000 to the homeless crisis in California.

Nobody knows where the money went. There's no accountability, and the homeless problem has increased. That's just BS. I'm sorry. Right. That is I I am a big person for government accountability, which is why I will proudly say I don't mind doubts. I like, do it. Do it.

I'm so I'm sick of the whiners. There is so much fraud. There is so much fraud. And I and and and if somebody doesn't wanna write, five things they did last week, then fire the boss, I'd fire them. You can't think of five things you did last week? See, I don't want you on my team. So I am and I'm sure a lot of, you know, a lot of people will hear this and go, oh my god. Because there's so much pearl, you know, clutching over this. But, that's who I am.

And if you don't like it, too bad.

Well, 50% of the people will love it. 50% will and we'll just keep going. Right?

But I I'm in that 50% that and and why I I wanna sit down with those other 15 go, why don't you wanna cut? What what would you run your house like this?

Your your

husband's got the checkbook and you you've got no money and you can't you're like, where where is it going, but you're not allowed to ask? That's baloney.

I think people would love to hear the stories on, you know, because we've created the whole mess. We've created the whole environment. So let's get to why did we create this and can we uncrate it because we can't.

But we can uncrate it. But but wait. But but we can uncrate it by stopping everything and looking at where where the fraud is, where the mismanagement is. That

Correct.

If I ran a business and I was constantly in debt and my employees weren't telling me what they were doing and they're at home on Zoom with their friends, drawing a full paycheck and benefits, and sometimes moonlighting and getting a a double salary. No. I'm gonna find that out. You cannot tell me that that's okay. Yeah. Anyway, that's a whole different thing.

That's okay. And this is why we have the passionate Pat today. Yeah. Uh-huh. Because she's got passion behind her stories.

I do. I do.

But and I love talking to my client who's a journalist, I love talking with her, because she does international. So it's intriguing to hear hear her perspective. But, for young women today, you know, who are aspiring or even people who young can be 40 in my mind. You know? It depends on what you wanna do. But 70

is the new 50.

There you go. But, you know, they wanna how for young women or people who are in, you know, trying to get maybe where you have in in in your investigative journey and storytelling, you know, what advice would you offer them? You know, so they could find their voice and their purpose. Because obviously, you found your voice in, I'm gonna really get into the criminal justice system. I'm gonna specialize in that. I'm gonna focus on it because I'm passionate about it. Right. What's your advice to them today on on on where where journalism is, and how do they get there and how do I make you know, where's my voice? How do I get my purpose? What's your advice?

Well, I I'm an old school traditional journalist.

Okay.

So with with all due respect, bloggers and podcasters, unless they are, you know I mean, if you're talking about journalism and and I love podcast, so don't get me wrong. But I always tell people to ask yourself what exactly you want to be. And if you say journalist, then it's got to be that you only go by facts. You double check. You source everything. You go you abide by all the rules of journalism. If you want to be more opinionated, then, you know, go that route. First of all, you know, figure out exactly what's important to you.

Right? That's the most important thing. And at the time, well, can I tell you just a quick story before I go on?

You can. Please do.

So when I was at at the anchor at Channel six, George h w Bush was campaigning to be the president of The United States. And it came through Columbus, and every, they got they picked one person from each station to do a one on one interview with him. I I and I got picked because I was interested in politics. Okay. And I went down to this is these are the stories that help, drive you through your career. So what's that beautiful old hotel in Downtown Columbus? I don't know if it's still there, but it was very stately old brick building. I can't think of it. So I go up to the, the Top Floor with my cameraman, and we're waiting for mister Bush to come in.

And he comes in, and I sit down and do the interview with him. And he stood up, and he shook my hand. He said, miss LaLama, you ask very compelling questions. And for a budding journalist

Yeah.

Oh my god. It was like, woah. The next day, I had an interview with Barbara Bush.

Ah, interesting.

She walked in, same place, and I her press secretary introduced me and she went, she you know, she was very sassy. Right? She put her hands on her hips. She goes, Pat LaLama? I said, yes. And she goes, you're that little girl George is so in love with. And we had

to come home with a

fundraiser last night to watch you on the 11:00 news because he thought you were a good journalist.

I love it.

Ain't that sweet? I love it. I love it. But anyway Yes. The the point of the point of this is that when I first began, I told you I had started to form instinct like the Catholic church. That whole patriarchy became a thorn in my side, and I I started writing articles, like, you know Mhmm. In college that got published about how I felt. But then I realized that, okay, I have a voice. I don't wanna be an opinion person right now.

I wanna so I took the things I was interested in. One of them is rock and roll. I covered a lot of rock and roll journalism. You know? Yep. Like I covered Grammys and interviewed lots of rock stars. That's another area of interest. I pick the things that make me, like, either get mad or get really happy. Like, the things that drive you.

That's the direction you need to start going in because you will just wanna spill out and you wanna create ways to

Right.

Express yourself. So I chose journalism, and I chose subject matters that I would that I was interested in. And then I just started knocking on doors. I I just I was not gonna be stopped. Any city this is when I was still in college. Any city that I happen to be visiting on a vacation, I would call up the news director and go, I'm a budding journalist. Can I just come in and see your station? You'd be surprised at how many people were like, yeah. Yeah.

Come on in. I I did that in Chicago. I did it in San Francisco. I just started knocking on doors. And then I found out, that WNCI was looking for a a reporter, And I made a little spliced a little tape together because I had been on WOSU as the campus reporter, the radio station, and I took it into this Tom Russo. And I just looked at him and I and I was listen. You have to cover up the insecurity and grow some you know whats that are usually assigned to guys. But there's a figurative way that women can have them too.

And and I was not gonna let anybody tell me that I wasn't gonna do this. And I told him I told him why he needed me. I would you don't go in demure. You go in and go, you know, look. Here's how I think I'm an asset to your station. And I told Tom Russo this. This is what I think I can do for you. And when people are drawn to that kind of confidence.

They're drawn to that.

They love it. Sure. If you

have a business if you have that in your office interviewing with you or someone going, well, I really haven't thought about where I'm going. Right. Which one are you gonna pick?

Right.

It's that simple. And you can't look. I have a very close friend who never made it in the business he wanted to make it in. He wanted to be a a musician, and he's a great musician. And I have a lot of contacts, and I would I would hook him up together. But he couldn't he he couldn't I got him in a room with a few people, but with a guy who has discovered so many famous people.

And I

said, go for it. And he couldn't bring himself to go talk to him. You've gotta cut that out right now. Cut it out right now, young women. You can't uh-uh. No. Even if you stumble and trip over yourselves, get over that person and say, hey. I'm really interested in this business.

I'd like to, you know, I'd like to say hi. Right. But

And you look at the world today. I mean, you look at the generations, even two behind us, maybe three behind us, and they might have an idea and they might have passion, but they don't have an ability for pursuit. Does that say did that say right? Beautifully said. Pursuit is it. Right? I mean, that is the thing of nobody will see your value like you do, first of all. Yeah. So you're only as valuable to others. I mean, you're not gonna hire someone who loves, I don't know, or not really.

I mean, they wanna they want their problem.

Decided yet. I mean, you could say you haven't decided something, but you can say it in a strong way.

Right. Right.

You can say, well, you know, I really like this. I really like that, and I'm kind of waiting to see where my life experience I mean, you can you can exude doubt about yourself, but it's the way that you present it. And one of the things I see with young women is they don't use their voices. I don't know what this thing is I see in young women today. It's called vocal fry. Do you know what that is?

I do.

Young girls talk like that. They talk like that. I'm like, stop it. Stop it. Right. You know? Use your voice. Be you know, don't be who you aren't. Don't be somebody you're not, but use your voice.

There there is there I I I don't know how this vocal fry thing start in the uptalk, and then I took a walk, and then we went down the street. I no. Stop it. Speak.

I love it. And I

love it. Fry. It's a bad look. It's a bad sound. It's horrible.

So what I'm hearing you though is you were in control of the pursuit. I mean, everyone has passion. Everyone has ideas. Everyone has kind of, hey. For the most part, I wanna do and be this. But if you don't own the pursuit, forget it. No. It doesn't matter if it's journalism's right.

Journalism, whatever, and it doesn't matter. Right? Yep. But, you know and and I have I personally love to watch now. She's and I'm not a big Facebooker. I have about 200 friends because I don't wanna know everybody. I don't accept all this crap. But there's a girl on there. She's probably 30.

She's a woman. She's not really a kid. But she has five kids. And she she caught my attention because the first time I saw a reel, she's and it she goes, this is you know, I'm a poor mom to middle class, and I'm, you know, and here's my story. And her whole passion isn't I wanna be a CPA and a shareholder, or I wanna be on 2020, you know, when I'm this. Her whole passion was, I raised my siblings, and I want to be the mom who raises her children, not, you know and she followed kind of in her mom's pursuit per, thing where she got pregnant young. Right? And she's like, here I am. But she had an ability to control the pursuit of which way she wanted to do when that pregnancy happened.

Right? And now she has when she hit 400,000, people on Facebook that follow her, and that's not Instagram and that's not TikTok. And it's and you know what she does? Here's what we're making for a family of seven and a middle class poor family. She come in, she does tater tots and right. But now she has four And

she's relatable. She's relatable.

Relatable. She controlled the pursuit of what she was gonna do. And on top of that, she's now selling the tater tots brand because people are going, hey, would you advertise

That's so fabulous.

It's an amazing. I love watching her because she controls the pursuit.

Has anybody approached her about doing a reality show?

I don't know. Her name is her name is Jessie Ray, and she's probably thirtieth. Jessie Ray, and it's r a she I would love to be able to get her on this show because she isn't looking at what we think of. Only people with passionate ideas are career people or they're doing, you know, their per se. She's passionate about raising her own kids and having dinner every night at the table.

God bless her.

Right. I mean, she takes even a this is how a family of seven a poor family. Now she kinda calls herself middle class. And the first time she bought a car, she says, I was able to get a car. Can you believe this? Her husband, they shared one of Family seven. I

love this story. I love this.

It she has inspired me. Say? Jesse, g e j e s s. I'll try to get you something through Betty, but she she inspires me because she controls that pursuit. I'm gonna pursue this. And it isn't some big thing of I'm going in politics. I'm gonna be a CPA. I'm gonna get a master's. Well, is what we think that's what pursuit is? No.

Pursuit is I have this thing, and I'm gonna do it. And then I'm gonna pursue it no matter what.

Something I'm sorry for interrupting.

No. Good.

But I'm so glad you brought her up because if you wanna know the truth, I relate more to her than I do my peers in the in the journalism industry. You know? I it's funny because I I'm a blue collar girl. My parent my parents were from Italian immigrants, and we had nothing. Like, I saw my dad, like, in tears one day because he couldn't give us enough breakfast food. Right? I mean and and, I was always embarrassed because we lived in a neighborhood that had no sidewalks. It was lower middle class neighborhood when I grew up at Morrison, Cleveland. Yeah. And when we moved to Minerva Park, things got better.

But, I mean, most of my those growing years, I and that's that's what got me mad at the priest who would come around and talk about birth control because all my neighbors were poor people with tons of kids struggling to make it. Right? So to this day, I really hang I I really love the company. I have all kinds of friends. I'm very lucky to have so many friends from all walks of life. But I love the company of of the of the people who grew up like I did, struggling.

Mhmm. Right.

I have more in common with these people, and I love them. And I I Right. More more of most of the time, I will hang around with the cameraman and the the producer than I will Right. Like another on camera, which nothing wrong with them. I have those friends too. But but I really my roots are everything Yeah. And feel a kindred spirit with people who struggled.

Right.

And, I mean, I

Learn from learn from the roots. Learn from the background. You know? And that's that's what with her, she was like, I'm gonna learn even though, oh, I'm now pregnant, but I mean and I've got a kid, and I'm young, and I'm still raising my siblings. She took that somehow and has turned it around in a way that Mhmm. Inspires me.

I just

I love listening to her over, you know, the bigger podcast people or the people who are, you know, oh, I'm this and that. I don't really care. She's nothing like that, yet she inspires me to be more. She inspires me to do more, and I love it. Right.

But it's all about the pursuit, which is what we were talking about, and that's the one of the most important things yes. Okay. So now you've got your passion, and now you kinda got an idea of where you want. What how that's what people mostly young people I just gave a speech at, at a university the other night about this. And that is you're gonna five 48 out of the 50 aren't gonna return your call or your email. Prepare yourself for that. I could it bounces off my back now if somebody is like, no. Thank you.

You know, I'm not interested. But Yeah. You have to get used to that, and it only inspired me more. Like, when I was at w, TBN, I wanted to jump over to channel ten because they had better ratings. And I met and I met with, I think his name was Tom Meisel. Why I remember that name, I don't know. But and he didn't hire me. Right? He didn't hire me.

And I thought, I'll show him. And sure enough, I went off to Boston. And so I always to to tell your lady your women

Yeah.

Take on the I'll show them attitude. Like, think of every guy who broke your heart or every person who didn't think you were hot enough or you didn't think you were qualified or didn't think, you know, you were pop you you didn't belong in the popular girls group at school.

Right.

Just say I'll show them. And you know what my biggest I'll show them was to the girls who bullied me at Westerville? I got invited back to give a a commencement speech once I had made it at channel six and became the anchor. That was I'll show them. Right? Yep. Right. There's nothing wrong with that attitude. Nothing wrong with

that. And you weren't nasty about it, and you didn't throw it in the face. You just smiled at all.

Anything nasty to anybody, but Oprah is the one who said that success is the best revenge.

Yeah. It is. And you were laughing all the way to the bank. Okay? You know? Yeah. Back in the day, thanks so much.

The networks have gotten very greedy.

I hear. But she inspired I mean, I look at her, but, you know, this year's podcast team is about women taking flight and leading the way. And in my mind, she's in that back. She's in that back. Yes. It's not that she's I wonder if that's her. Yeah. She she's incredible.

I do and she just did a cooking show, actually. I don't know what it what TV it was. It was somewhere in Nashville. And she had the whole thing of, you know, they're doing her makeup, and she's making her faces, and she's doing her stuff. You know? But here she is, and she goes, that was just, like, crazy. She doesn't take it arrogantly. She's not like, where's my people and somebody you know? She just has that wholesomeness, and yet she doesn't live in a if you saw the house, even she does you know, we're she goes, you know, we're in her class when, we're playing with the blinds that have been here the entire house. You know? And so she just it's just awesome.

But

but when we do that I love that. And and and the best compliment that I get from people besides telling me that they appreciate my storytelling is you have never lost your Midwestern roots.

Yeah.

I am so proud to be from Westerville, Columbus. I am so proud of what the opportunities I had there and that I was able to take nothing and turn it into something. And I and I'm always boasting about Ohio people.

Right. And people will say, are you a farmer? No. Are you out of your mind? Come to Ohio. Stop talking about that.

Well, you know what? And there's no worse offender like that than people in California who have no idea that I don't know if it holds true still, but Ohio had the the most number of big cities in a single state of any other. Yeah. Like, you look at yeah.

It's not Cleveland. Yeah. I think I think Columbus is, like, top eight or top 10 for sure in size. I mean, so it's it's but but, anyways, we gotta keep going. Women taking flight and leading the way, we just talked about Jessie Reay. We see that in her. We see that in others. People see that in you.

But what does that mean to you? You know? What does that mean, women taking flight or women leading the way? What what's your first thoughts when I say that?

Taking flight and leading the way is something I think I've done. And I've done it by encouraging all young women, all all women. Yep. I'll I'll give you an example. In Boston, I was at WBC, one of the greatest, stations that, back in the day, was considered one of the premier stations for journalism. And I was good enough to get there right out of Columbus, and I was really thrilled. And about a year and a half later, they decided that I wasn't a good fit for their TV station, which just happens all the time, and I probably wasn't. You know, it worked out fine.

But if if Boston and I were just not meant to be lovers. So

It's an East Coast. It's an East Coast air out there.

Well, yeah, but I've worked in there were many New York, places that wanted to hire me. But it's just I don't know. There there was a woman they had already wanted from across the street at WCBB, and she wasn't available at the time. But she suddenly became available, and and I think it just was it worked. So they didn't fire me. They just didn't renew my contract. When she walked in the door but she came before I left. And I offered her my phone, my desk.

I said, no hard feelings. Best of luck to you. I'm moving on. I moved on to Chicago. And I wanted I wanted to show her that I supported her and didn't take any of it personally to her. These are the thought things you can do to take flight is you take all the beautiful things that you've been able to acquire and you pass them on as often as you can. And I try to on my way up and still going up because 2020 is relatively new for me. It's been the last five years, and that's about as high as you can get in the TV news business.

Yeah.

And I am still saying, okay. What am I learning and what am I going to impart to to the younger women coming up? And, I wanna keep growing and learning. And honest to god, all those tragedies that happened, difficult things helped me grow and learn. And that to me and to continue to be happy with what you're doing. If you're if you're waking up in the morning and you feel like I'm not really contributing much, change it. That's how you take flight. Change it. It is never ever too late to change it.

Never too late. I mean, you can switch careers or you can say, hey. I've raised my children, and now I kinda wanna pursue something. Don't let anything get in your way. Right. You could you know, your success is how you how you are gonna define it.

Right. And sometimes success, we think, well, if I'm just resilient, I'll push through. I say to you, if you wanna be resilient, sometimes you just say, here's my phone. Here's my desk. Best of luck. I'm moving on.

Mhmm.

Or whatever it is. You just go, no. It's time to stop. It's time to leverage. It's time to go to Chicago. It's time to do something different and be okay in that, not wallow around in it. You know?

Yeah. That's exactly right. And and and another thing, I think this is important. You're making me think. You're very good at this. I I Oh, well, thank you. You so much. No.

Really good. You're really good at this. Is my my stepsons once said to me, because I've lived in so many cities in the TV business Yeah. Boston, Chicago, LA, San Francisco. And they said, how, you know, how did you how could you move that many times? I said, I loved it. I love change. I'm not saying other people have to move five times to five different cities.

Right.

But I tried to teach them to please don't be afraid to have an adventure.

Right.

A lot of people paint themselves in like, well, I know that's out of my comfort zone. Stop that.

Yeah.

Stop. Stop. I have landed in more cities knowing no one and Mhmm. Seeing where I'm gonna how far I'm gonna go. Who am I gonna meet now? What what's this new job in this new town gonna be like? I don't know anybody. I love that. I'm not saying everybody has to do it to that extreme. It could be right in your own hometown.

But if there's something across the street that looks like it's really going to make you a happier, better person, then, by gosh, get over there and pursue it.

Do it.

Get into your uncomfort zone. Yes. That's where I love to be, where I'm uncomfortable.

I love that. I mean, for me, I can tell you, my first podcast is your nevers are your opportunities because I was never gonna use my accounting degree. I was never gonna be a CPA. I was never gonna own a business. I wanted my check paycheck. I didn't wanna have to sign one, right, and make sure it was met every two weeks. And then I was never gonna go to a bigger company, and I did all four. So so when you, you know, have you ever had and we'll end with this.

When people and women in general, they'll go, I'm never gonna do that. Did you ever find yourself saying that a lot? Or you're you were not that person. I was that I was that person. I'm never gonna do this. You know, I'm never gonna do these things. And then those things became the opportunity. I'm never gonna move. I'm not gonna go to comfort zones or uncomfort zones or

I I never no. I never set perimeters. I just let that's the other thing of I'm a free spirit, which is why much as I love children, I chose not to have them. And while I love my husband, I really if if I hadn't met him, I probably never would have gotten married. Yeah. I I love making my own decisions. I love waking up and seeing what's going to happen today, so what opportunities will present themselves. So yeah.

And I think that's important too.

Well, I could talk to you for hours, but I know you are in the middle of investigating journal, telling stories in a big court case, and it's 04:00. So we've gotta get you out of here, but I so appreciate you've been so inspiring today to talk to

Thank you.

Pursue do do the pursuit of Jessie Wright. She's an amazing story. She really, really is. And, I just am honored that you would be here today with us. I know my audience is gonna just love it, and they're gonna go, there's something in there for me. I can do it. But thank you thank you so much.

Can I can I add just one thing?

You can. You're the closer. So close it up. Let's do it.

This is the most important thing that anybody in my life ever said to me, and it was my father.

Okay.

My father and this was the year 1970, and I was 16 years old. And I'm in a traditional Italian Catholic family with three brothers, a dad who unfortunately didn't get to finish his education because back in the day, immigrants made their kids quit school and help support the family. And yet my dad did end up doing well for himself as a as, you know, in the blue as a blue collar as a concrete, he owned his own company. He did very well. But, what's really surprising to me is that in 1970, he took me aside. His name is Nunzio, by the way, but everybody called him Danny. And he didn't take my three brothers aside. He took me aside because he saw he told somebody later.

He said, I saw something in my daughter. And he goes, I'm gonna tell you two things. Now keep in mind, Italian family, 1970. Okay?

Yep.

He said two things. Number one, pick a career that comes from your heart and soul. When you wake up in the morning and you go to the mirror and you look in the mirror, you have to say, I love what I've chosen to do. The money is not important, not at all important. It's fulfillment. Something like that. Right? Yeah. And number two, let me remind you, 1970.

Yes. Number two, never ever ever count on a man to pay your bills. How about that? Yep. $19.70. My very yes.

Go ahead.

Bulldozed the path for me right there, and that's exactly what I did.

My mother sat me down at fourteen and said and she was very conservative, still is, who had a business in her home. She babysat kids, raised six children. But she said to me, you're never going to do what I do. You will go to college. You will pursue things. And by the way, you gotta pay for it. So you're 14. Here's your work permit.

Get going. Best advice ever. Where I told my kids, you know, the college funds are there. You're gonna go do it. And they didn't have the same work ethic as as I did. I didn't give them the opportunity to I kind of but, anyways, well, we will end today, Pat.

Well, I just thought that I'd just thought to add that right after my dad told me that

Yes.

I told him, I'm I'm gonna go to college and pursue journalism. And he said, great. I hope you find a way to pay for it. So he was like

Yes. We came from the same neighborhood, the same kind of thing. Right.

But but you know what that means? I can survive anything.

Yeah.

Throw it at me. I don't care. Even tragedies, I can survive anything. Yeah.

So the recap is you don't have to go in journalism to use these things. Your demons can be your drivers. Right? Your passion has to be there, but it's your pursuit

That's right.

And listen to your parents. How's that?

And be fearless. You gotta be fearless.

Yes. It's all good.

Be uncomfortable. You know what? All women should get on a train or a plane or even a bus, go to a city by themselves, say I'm going to spend four days just exploring on my own. I'm not gonna call anybody. I'm gonna see what I learn and who I meet and what happens. That's a great thing for all women to do. A lot of women are afraid to do that. I have girlfriends who can't go out to dinner by themselves. I can't even imagine that.

But you know what I'm saying. I do.

Ladies and gentlemen, Pat LaLama, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thanks for letting me blab for so long.

Oh, no problem at all. We just we're glad you tuned in today. Spread the word. Tell people about her story. It's a wonderful one, and check out her out on 2020 for sure. Thank you. Joining us today. Yes.

We appreciate it.

You are a great interviewer. I'm not just saying that. I've really enjoyed this. You you have all the right things.