Hello, everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood and I am your host for the Inclusion Bites Podcast. In this series, I have interviewed a number of amazing people and simply had a conversation around the subject of inclusion, belonging and generally making the world a better place for everyone to thrive. If you'd like to join me in the future, then please do drop me a line to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk, that's S-E-E Change Happen dot co dot uk. You can catch up with all of the previous shows on itunes, Spotify and the usual places. So plug in your headphones, grab a decaf and let's get going. Today is Episode 89 with the title Unearthing Potential beyond the Resume.
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Unearthing Potential, Beyond the Resume
The Inclusion Bites Podcast
Unearthing Potential, Beyond the Resume
JL
Speaker
Joanne Lockwood
SD
Speaker
Sara Dalsfelt
00:00 CVs becoming obsolete as employers assess potential. 05:52 Created AI tools for diverse, inclusive hiring.
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“Unearthing Potential beyond the Resume." - "In this series, I have interviewed a number of amazing people and simply had a conversation around the subject of inclusion, belonging and generally making the world a better place for everyone to thrive.”
“So we built that way to have an automated suite powered by AI to really go out and find potential on social media and make sure the candid experience is walking the talk.”
“Diversity in Hiring Practices Quote: "So to answer your question, what's behind the resume? Everything potential.”
“So I often find that organisations are trying to jump to the hiring phase without doing the heavy lift on the.”
“So even if you have the most inclusive promise as an employer, how do you have the most inclusive and thought through strategy to go and approach them?”
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Full transcript
And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Sara Dalsfeld. Sara is the Chief Marketing Officer at Adway. Adway are a talent attraction suite, a consciously inclusive platform that is built to find hard to reach talent on social media. And when I asked Sara to describe her superpower, she said she unapologetically dares to be herself and walks the talk. Hello, Sara, welcome to the show.
Hello, Jo. Thank you for having me on the show.
We met several years ago. I think I did an adway podcast or live stream with you and we just went in the green room, weren't we? That was four or five years ago, early COVID.
Yeah, I just looked back. You were on my LinkedIn live show, 2019, I believe, and we did a fabulous episode. You can still rewatch it, everyone, for listening. In English it was called is hiring for diversity hiring for second best? And we unpacked what conscious inclusion means in Practise for hiring teams. It's still a really good topic, a really good show. And that's how we met, I believe, through the TA community.
It was last year. Yeah, we did on the adway stand, yeah.
Brilliant. Yeah. I've been a fan of yours ever since, Joanne. Like what you do for the space, who you are, the knowledge you bring, the perspectives. I recommend you to everyone I stumble across for Conscious Inclusive hiring tactics.
For those of you can't see, because this is a podcast, I've gone bright red, I'm blushing, I'm all over the place. This fangirl stuff is hard to take. Fangirls.
You have to take it in. You're an important voice.
Thank you. So, Unearthing Potential and so what is beyond the resume? Can we bin the resume?
Yeah. For me, I believe we're heading into a time where candidates almost will start questioning employers in why they're assessing their potential based on a piece of paper. I believe we're almost there. Where? Well, the CV is, for most employers now, even ancient, but it's still used, right. It's a traditional hiring tactic, but in a very near future, candidates will start questioning, how is this even relevant to assessing my readiness, my potential and my transferable skills? So everything is beyond the resume? Everything is beyond the CV. The person, the potential the people is beyond the CV. So it's just an easy way for employers to weed out what's not relevant to them and it holds a lot of bias into the process.
Don't you find that many traditional hiring managers, employers, they've got this kind of scared they're scared, aren't they? They start twitching if you say we can't have a CV. And they go how can I find out about people if I don't have their CV?
Minds are blown. Minds are blown. I'm here to tell you there's never been a time where there's more tools, more tech, more solutions, more everything to assess potential as early as possible in the hiring funnel. And for me, Joanne, it all comes down to if you're not consciously including, you are most likely unconsciously excluding.
That's definitely one of my sayings. I've used that. So yeah, it's so true.
There's so very few people building that in to their talent attraction or talent acquisition strategy or hiring strategy. It's still just a saying, it's a good quote on the fridge. But we're here to say you have to consciously build it in to your tech stack or your strategy or anything in order when you go to find talents, it has to be built in, otherwise you are most likely excluding are organisations.
This is a sporting analogy. Are they match fit for hiring? Because I see people talking about diverse hiring, inclusive hiring, whatever buzzword they want to use to make them sound kind of contemporary and on the mark. But I always wonder if the candidate experience and the employee experience they're selling is reality or a dream or vapour.
Right? Absolutely. It's most likely buzzwords. Right. We have to start somewhere. I believe everything starts with buzwords but I mean, we have the knowledge anything at our fingertips, we can't just rely on buzwords or quotes anymore. We have to start acting. And as beautiful as our ta community is, we're good at talking. That's where I sort know introduced myself with I walk the talk.
So why we built that way five years ago was to make sure that there are tools harnessing all the potential in diversity on social media. Because there's over 5 billion people, every person under the sun is on social media potentially. And there's ways where you have to work in order to keep up with the policies on some, to actively include and not target anyone on gender or age or ethnicity or all these factors that might come from an idea, from an hiring manager. Right? So we built that way to have an automated suite powered by AI to really go out and find potential on social media and make sure the candid experience is walking the talk. In terms of the best shopping experience you've ever had online, designing your dream car or just ordering your foods for the grocery store or whatever piece of clothing you might order that, but better, more sophisticated and more personalised should be your hiring experience as well. So that's the reason why we did it. And so far the most innovative and most thought provoking and forward TA teams are using these kind of tools because they know if they're not consciously include, they are excluding in somewhere in the journey. And I believe well, some say, I say 90% of your hiring success is determined at the first 10% of the journey.
So what you do in the first process, when you go broad, when you go to find your audience and you start nudging and attracting and building this storytelling experience for them, that's where you can improve for potential and diversity in the very first steps. And then, yes, there should be automated assessments, right? There should be automated testing, there should be all these features that helps both the hiring teams and the candidate experience, right? So why I'm on the podcast, Joe, it's everything that we do, it's everything that I believe in and for myself. I know we touched upon where I shared. I have a one year long gap in my CV or resume from a trauma, a really troubling trauma where I had to be off work, right? And these traditional hiring methods would never hire me. And here I am, the CMO of my dream company that we started five years ago. I would never been hired if I were to be judged by a recruiter from my cover letter because it's not saying anything about my readiness or my potential or what I bring to the table in terms of transferable skills, et cetera. So to answer your question, what's behind the resume? Everything potential.
So we know that the talent attraction part of the story starts way before we go to market with a campaign. If you're not in Ta, you're not in recruitment, talent acquisition, EVP, employer branding, all this value proposition stuff all around the recruitment marketing element. It's got to start way before and be that authentic thread through the organisation. So I often find that organisations are trying to jump to the hiring phase without doing the heavy lift on the.
But on the contrary, a lot of teams, they stay stuck and paralysed in the work of the EVP or the career page or the value proposition or the communication versus not a lot of people have the distribution, the actual strategy. How do you take your fabulous EVP to the phones, the hands of the most desired candidates that you want to approach? Not a lot of teams put the investment or the energy into the distribution of that. They just hope that people will find their EVP or find their employer branding. So even if you have the most inclusive promise as an employer, how do you have the most inclusive and thought through strategy to go and approach them? And approaching means approaching mostly like passive candidates, hard to reach talents. Talents that most likely are already fully employed, working doing what they love. So you now have to have a strategy that's really built into providing your lovely EVP into the hands of their phones, where they spend over three 4 hours a day scrolling through social media. And it has to be an experience that's built for that specific social media channels that they're in, all while being as inclusive as they want it with their EVP. So you see, there's a lot of like as to your point, a lot of teams spend their time figuring out the EVP, but the other part they just jump straight into the hiring and not a lot of companies spend the time on the distribution.
How do we go to market? How do we make sure that we've opened the funnel for as many talents as possible? Because here's the facts. You need to go broad in order to attract diverse talent and the best talent from there, volumes of candidates will still be relevant talents if you automate the assessment and the testing and everything screening based that you might have. But you can't say that you have an inclusive hiring if you just go to a selected network or a close group or your best friend, or your male friend. That usually happens. So that's why I really challenge ta teams to look into how do you go to market and stay consciously inclusive.
I'm just trying to piece together what you're saying here. So help me out. So are we talking about a broad spectrum of trying to build our candidate pool our talent pipeline from a broader spectrum as possible around a broad demographic and skill set and everything else, and then being able to bring those into your funnel, your pipeline and use automation to sift preselect on competency and capability and adaptability and change all these sort of things. Yes, the hiring team themselves are just getting a presifted diverse pool.
Exactly that. Exactly that. You won't get to a presifted diverse, relevant pool if you don't open the funnel from the beginning. And opening the funnel is utilising tech because there's the heavy lifting right there's where automation really comes in. So what I'm saying is there's no other platform in the world where over 5 billion people spend more time than they do on eating every day. The general user on social media spends social media almost like they spend almost 2.5 hours a day. And that is increasing. Like, you know, just cheque your settings, right? That is increasing.
So what I say is you have to go where the candidates spend their time, where they live their lives, right? You have to then make sure you are distributing a strategy that builds a storytelling experience based on your EVP, on your employer brand, on all these value propositions that are as inclusive as you say. Meaning you will then only attract and assess the most relevant talents because they've been appealed and targeted based on potential and readiness. And your arguments that are selling to them. Because there's always like, I love this discussion, but people always come back to it, say, I just want one great candidate. Right. How with one great candidate would you know, you've opened the pool for potential, for inclusion, for diversity. For diversity. You wouldn't.
What you're saying to me is I want an easy life. Sure. Easy life means doing the right thing, consciously working into working inclusive strategies into your method, but utilising the tech then to do the heavy lifting. So you sit then with that relevant social talent pools based on relevance, potential, readiness, and with the most diverse teams you could ever imagine. And from there you could start assessing. Right.
This is kind of like headhunting on a mega enormous scale. So you've got a pool of potentially thousands of people or more being spear fishing them. So you're targeting them directly on mass.
Yes.
You're not suggesting cast a broad net everywhere. What you're saying is you're casting your net specifically for competency and skills. So it is spear phishing, but on a mega scale.
Yeah. And we work with behavioural targeting, so it's still targeted. But then how algorithms work is that they have to learn from a lot of data initially. Right. And with that you can then teach algorithm to work towards then specific data points that are building for an inclusive hiring strategy or not segmenting anyone on gender or ethnicity or all these bias factors. So it's simply making sure you walk the talk in your ta setup as well. Like, everything into your tech stack should walk the talk and you have to make sure it does. Can't just be the quote you're throwing at your next RL 100 talk.
Right. You have to walk the talk and look into your own process.
How long does the candidate stay passive in the process? Until they're kind of triggered into a kind of yes, this person meets our primary criteria, then we'll do some outreach so they can be passive in this process for years. Drop into it.
This is such an interesting question. Right. So there's a consensus in the market, like in the hiring industry, that we've always talked about a passive and an active market. Right. People active looking for a job when they're in between jobs. Right. And people who happen to be employed. But I like to look at it as to your point, as how I incorporate your question.
There's a window of opportunity where someone is about to act if we go back to e commerce and shopping tactics online. Right. I'm a passive customer always. I have money, I'm on social media, I like clothes. Let's make it easy. Right? I'm not in the look for anything. Yeah, you too. Exactly.
Who isn't? Jack Joe? Who isn't? I'm not in the look for anything. Let's just make it super easy. It's been black month. Black Friday. I've done all my shopping. I'm satisfied. But I'm still a passive customer online, living my life on social media, right? If I stumble across really targeted ads with very personalised messages, discount codes, anything, and these ads, iterate they go after me on Instagram, then when I'm on TikTok, I get a new one. When I'm on LinkedIn, I get three other ones.
When know, jumping into could be Twitch or whatever platform that might be. I have a designed experience to sort of approach me with a product, right? In this case, might be a bag. I like bags, for instance. Let's make it super easy. So there's a window of opportunity where I've been nudged enough times. There's not a golden number, but a lot of people say there should be seven touch points in order to make an action, right? So in the window of time where I turn active, that's where I believe you have to make sure you have a process that's so sophisticated, that actually capitalises on my window of opportunity when I'm active. So it means I need to be buying this bag with one click. I have to feel super secure.
I have to trust the tech. I have to make sure it's not a scam site, it's not a scam company taking my card details. I have to feel super trusted. And it should be the smoothest, easiest confirming experience ever. Like, yes, sir, you're doing the right thing. The bag is coming in a day. One click, we have all the information that we need. And the same goes for applying for a job.
There's a window of opportunity. And this window of opportunity can increase by building these personalised storytelling experiences over social media platforms, making me turning me into an active candidate once I've been presented with these offers over time. So to your point, yes, it can take over six months. We have a process that makes sure our customers, they hire everything from CEOs down to customer service personnel or whatever, like all different types of roles. And it takes forever for some because they're so passive. Could be eye doctors or pharmacists, right? They're so passive in terms of looking for job, but they're very active in terms of working, so they're not a lot of time approaching them, right? They might be on social media just when they're taking a coffee. Then the timing needs to be there. The sophisticated strategy needs to be there.
So I like to look at it as a window of time when someone turn active. You have to make sure your software works for you to capitalise on this very rare moment.
I love that idea. I'm with you on bags, but I'm probably almost active on buying an air fryer everywhere I go.
I bet you every social media channel knows this. You're 80% there.
And I'm being honed into a certain brand, a certain price range, certain feature set, because I can feel that I've inquired and I've done some research and I'm looking at certain things. So this is what you're saying, really is it's building up a behavioural pattern of what has interested me, what hasn't interested me, where I go, it indicates my abilities and my people I hang out with. So you're building up a picture of me to know that this particular air fryer on Black Friday, and you probably know that 50 pounds off is my kind of deal threshold.
Yes.
And then I'm going to click on it and then, as you say, it has to happen immediately.
Immediately, yes. It has to be a trusted process. Super easy, one click and it should be. Imagine the business of an e commerce, not converting those Joes like yourself actually going to market for that air fryer. Imagine that business loss. And the same goes for ta teams. For instance, look at the spill happening on every career page today. Every ta team out there invests a lot of money in driving traffic to their career page.
Nothing new. Right. What do you think is the average conversion rate on a career page today?
I guess it was pretty low because people are just window shopping, passively checking the market out.
Yes. But some teams are like, I wouldn't, so I argue there's not a lot of passive candidates just surfing around, a lot of clicks, a lot of steps down to your specific career page. It's a big ask. It's a big ask for a pharmaceutical working full time, super stressed, having everything to do by themselves. Right. So not a lot of passive candidates stumble across a career page because that's not like your SEO isn't that good? I would just shout.
You got to kind of have a motivation. You're disgruntled, you're at risk, something's happened.
Exactly. There's people naturally looking for there's some percentage going into career pages, but that's not the majority. The majority would mainly spend their time on social media or anything else on their phones. Right. But so the ones that actually do come to the career page have often committed to something. There's often some interest there. Once you actually come into a career page, that means losing out. On an average, 98% of the traffic is like throwing fishnets in the water and not picking up the fish.
And this happens for almost all ta teams and hiring teams out there. And again, how is this building upon to your inclusive, diverse talent pools? How is this building for the canned experience? It's not. It's just repelling thousands and thousands and thousands of people every day. Hundreds, if you're an average company. But this loop is just where I get fascinated of how this can still be going on when there's so much knowledge and there's so much you don't even have to be using social media yourself to know that there's a certain expectation from a persona, a user today. And, Joe, you're the same persona buying the airfire as you would be applying for a job that Adway would promote. Right. You're still the same.
Your behaviour is still the same. You have the same expectations. You go into social media, you go online, you have an expectation of your user experience that has to be met. Otherwise you would never buy the air fryer. You expect Amazon checkout or you expect easy buy or you expect klarna easy checkout or whatever. And the same persona is expecting a super easy application journey.
So as a passive candidate, I'm browsing minded my own business and I would start seeing targeted content around a brand, around a story the brand's telling to lure me in, to create a brand association. This brand is good. I love this brand in my head. And then they're going to kind of hit me with a why don't you find out more about us? Is that the kind of approach to try and drive me into their inquiry funnel?
Yes. So what we do is we build social talent pools built of relevance as well. So, yes, we would definitely go to market with a lot of arguments built on our customers. ICP, EVP, employee branding, all the arguments that's relevant for all the categories that they are promoting. But then as to your point, there needs to be a sort of Hansel and Greta storytelling experience happening to even care. Because you're not in a war for talent, you're in a war for attention. And that comes back to the distribution and the strategy of getting the right message at the right time on the right platform with the right window of opportunity. So what we do is that we build these talent pools that we can then retarget with all these relevant messages.
One good example that we always do is, for instance, how the travel industry have really nailed online purchases of travels, right? The majority of travels being sold or bought today is happening online. And that's been an industry sort of pioneering how you would go about an online order, because like ten years back, we still shopped a lot of well, we did a lot of travel bookings online. It was one of the first industries starting it, and still today it's one of the most lucrative industries in terms of online shopping. Right? So what they do is, first of all, an online ecommerce company, like booking.com, let's make it easy. They are very much aware that it's not one ad that sells their travel destination. It's an experience. And it's an experience that has to have built in social proof and trust in order for anyone to even care and put that much money behind it. Because it's for instance, let's say we're going to the Maldives, quite an investment.
Often like honeymoon investment, even like you wouldn't just randomly on a spring holiday go to Maldives, right? This is big investment and these companies know this. So they have to build a storytelling experience where they blend messages and social proof and trust into all these different ads, approaching the customers with a sophisticated, timely, precisely timing of everything. So there's like a fine line being spammed, as you might have been experienced, Joe, like, spammed with the targeting ads. Like, I already bought those shoes. Why are they still following me? That is not a sophisticated journey, that's sort of spray and pray approach to targeted advertising. But the sophistication means messages right on time, where they still feel nudging and not like, big brother is watching me, right? And this is where e commerce for travel agencies have done amazingly well. So the first ad that my show is going to, it's going to be like a couple experience going to the Maldives, right? They show the turquoise water, they show the villa, they show the champagne on the beach, and it's just like setting the scene. The first ad is like, we have a package deal for you going to the Maldives.
They know this is not where you buy, but this is where someone in your reptile brain, something might be registered. Right? Three days later, they show, oh, so this is a kids free hotel. It's for couples looking to get away, having their old bungalow. It's really, like, targeted towards you and perhaps your wife, because they know, right? Fourth day, fifth day, it's a family testimonial, or in this case, a couple testimonial. Yes, it was kids free. I got all the free massages that I wanted. It was so much rest for me. I had the best time ever.
Five ratings, right? Day ten, there comes the booking.com review. Like, ten stars. Best reviews ever. A lot of couples love this destination. It was worth all the money ever. We would never regret this. Yada, yada, yada. And on day 14, you get the last ad in the sequence of storytelling with a 20% discount.
Last chance to buy. Would you believe they would sell the same amount of travel packages on the first ad versus the last ad?
I can believe that. Because the people have different buyer journeys, different buyer experiences, different impulses.
Exactly.
So every one is going to peel people off, depart, and then no doubt, the last one, that's not give up. That's just pause and come back later, isn't it? You don't give up completely.
Exactly. It can always be retargeted. And they know that. The couple testimonial ad you've sent to your wife, like, hey, aren't we worth this? We're worth this. And then the questioning start happening and you guys could start picturing yourself going there. So once you get the last message, the last ad, the last storytelling experience, it's a no go. And that's how we like to approach talent attraction as well. We need to build a storytelling experience to sell them their new lifestyle, their new life work, life balance.
All these arguments that are selling the position and selling their new potential job. And it should be as timed as the Monday, you go in and you actually have a bad meeting with your manager and like, damn it, I'd never get my will through. Whatever. And bam, there's the ad. Find a date to apply, let's go.
Yeah, it's being there, being ready. And you say spear fishing, right at the point on that cusp of being passive active, isn't it?
It's no point, right? And I like to see it as window of opportunity. So when someone actually is turning active, you better work. The solution better work for you. So, as you can tell, I love this topic and coming back to inclusive hiring strategies, there's so much we can do, there's so much tools in our hands, there's so much knowledge, and there's never been a better case for conscious inclusion and making sure you're hiring people who can bring their authentic selves to work. That is where we are. And adway, we've been inspired by so many of you guys, every advocate and profile, educating the market, and we just believe we have the tech and solution to actually activate it and making it real and not just keeping it as a good quote. We want to change how we work. We want to change and make sure we have the tools operating currently.
So you're in the majority working with forward thinking companies who kind of plugged into this, who get it. There's still the rest of the world that is operating on a different modus operandi. And you know as well as I do that the challenge is the cost per hire, the speed of hire, the experience, all those kind of things. And whenever I'm talking to organisations, the frustration is around getting people into the funnel of a broadest demographic. Possible.
Exactly.
In a cost effective way. So let's just talk about the people who haven't found the light just yet. And that's a challenge, because what we end up doing is we end up using traditional recruitment processes with a non diverse and non broad demographic talent pool, wondering why we're not getting the output from that pipeline. True. Or enough candidates to give you choice across a broad demographic. That's the challenge, isn't it? And it's around getting the people in the funnel. And you're saying this passive active window of opportunity is a way of getting people into the top of funnel and then doing something with it. So let's talk about I've clicked.
Yeah, I want the air fry, I want the holiday, I want the couple's retreat, I want that new handbag, that pair of shoes. I definitely got to have that pair. So I've clicked. What should my candidate experience be like from that point forward?
So I want to advocate that the expectation here, even if it's a handbag, even if it's the travel, even if it's the air fryer, is that you do not want to leave the form. And by form, I want to say, when you click on an ad, what. Should happen is you called straight in to the application form. In this case, it should be as easy as submitting a lead. For instance, Joe, you pressed a job ad from adway. What should happen and what does happen with our talent attraction suite is you get a question like, would you like to register interest or would you like to apply? You only need to submit your email to actually be in the loop. And this is where a lot of ta teams and hiring teams get stuff wrong, because the old way of looking in hiring is we don't want a lot of work to go through. Like that's the old way of looking.
I would even argue that most hiring processes is built to weed out, not include versus today you have to broaden your perspective. You have to have a process that includes. That means if Joe has a window of opportunity, you have to meet that and you have to make it super, like, stupidly super easy to capture this interest. Which means one click is what needs in the initial phase, then it should be a gamified experience. So, for instance, what we built is you stay in the ad, you submit your email, then you can leave. We don't need anything more from you. We can retarget you and we can say, hey, Joe, remember you applied for head of the universe at Tesla, head of universal Tesla, right? Great role for you, Joe. Then you get a ping notification or an email or an ad, whatever you like, an SMS, a text, could be anything saying, well, you've only submitted 20% of the information to become a great hire for Tesla.
Would you like to just include three screening questions and then you're 100% done. So it's a gamified experience. Either you stay in the ad and you just fill know if it's screening questions or know the employer of choice tesla have chosen to fill in to make your hiring process, or you leave the form and come back when you have the time. Because you might be on the subway, you might be in the supermarket, you might be in the bathroom. So there's always alternatives to when you submit and come back. But capturing the first interest is vital, the first window of opportunity you have to capture. Then you can always push the candidate to update their profile. In this case, it's not a profile, but it's still an application for head of universus Tesla.
You don't have to create an account, but you can still be submitting your profile to the talent pool of this role, right? Or you stay in the form, you add your email and you answer a few questions, making sure the most relevant information come through, right? We don't need poster code, we don't need that. We just need to make sure that you perhaps live in France if this is the case for know, these factors are really built into the specific employer and the specific role, but I'm trying to say it in an example. Right, so the experience should be one click. You should be in the ad, there should be no fluffy 1 billion clicks through a form which is not mobile assessed or it's not built for mobile friendly, should be no account created, should be ideally not a single cover letter or CV uploaded either. It should be a super smooth journey based on finding potential with assessments and tests and screening based on science in order to really make sure what's getting through is relevant for this role and that you are opening up for potential and transferable skills and everything that you need in order for have a thriving workforce. Right, so, same as with Airfire. One, two clicks, super secure, easy checkout, making sure my bank details is all secured. I don't feel stressed about this decision.
I have to have an immediate confirmation. You did a great job, Joe. The airfire is coming. Or thank you so much. We have everything we need in order to process you further for Head of Universal Tesla, and that should be the canned experience and you should then continue with your life, keep scrolling instagram and go have dinner with your family.
But we know that isn't the typical candidate experience in the world, is it? We know that's a very curated, very contemporary, forward thinking way of dealing with things. But candidates generally have a very poor experience. I'm sure many people listening here have been experienced. The Blunder Bus approach on LinkedIn, recruiters sending us, are you interested in this, are you interested in that? Or you look great for this role, picking something that you did 20 years ago as a keyword, that's still the candidate experience. We've gone out there and it builds a lack of trust into the recruiting process.
And I believe it's like it's no blame on the recruiters, no blame on people just trying because they're so pressured. Like, there's an insane amount of pressure on recruiters right now. They're supposed to be AI engineers, marketing experts, sales experts, like, all these. There's so much pressure on them. But what I do want to challenge and what I like to discuss is how come we're not valuing our candidates and building processes and experience just as we would with super valuable customers? Because it's the same. Imagine, again, an ecommerce, a travel agency, treating their desired customers like most companies does with their candidates in revenue loss. Just imagine the figures in revenue loss and it's not like in terms of buying stuff or being a customer, I could still go back some years later and like, I want air fryer. Like, I don't care, it's a good deal, I'm going to buy it.
I'm not that sceptical about the brand selling the air fryer, but when it comes to hiring, if I've had a bad experience with a brand, they're doomed. They're out the majority of candidates will never apply again. So it's not just that you're turning them off, you're ending forever a relationship. And it's not just a lot of people come to market saying there's no candidates. How come you're thinking you're sprinking each day you're working against yourself? So I think the bigger question should be, yes, of course, everyone should have the ideal can experience and everyone should work with the best tech out there. But still, you have to see and approach your candidates as valued customers and you have to make sure that is the experience, else why are you in recruitment?
Most? I think I think 65, 70% of the UK workforce work for businesses that are ten people or less, or certainly small businesses, micro businesses. What we're talking about here is an enterprise. It's a corporate, large organisation budget, I guess. How do smaller organisations get into something like this? Because first of all, it's a mindset change, isn't it? Recruitment, marketing and what you're talking about is a real mindset change versus the old. I'll put it on typical job site and get thousands of applications from around the world that very few are actually relevant. We latch on the biases, kick in that person's name, that person's education. We're suddenly biassing and going, oh, look, there's a couple of white people here with English handing names who live in the local town. They'll be perfect.
That's what goes on at the moment in the majority of the world, doesn't it?
I want to challenge when it comes to investing in inclusive strategies or tech or platforms, it's like, what would it cost you to not get this diverse workforce into the company? Right? So that's always the calculation. But, yes, we work with companies that are hiring for very complex roles and volumes of roles that's like mainly our target audience, but it still could be companies doing 30 hires a year if it's like pharmacists or It specialists or salespeople or service personnel or whatever. So either way, because what I'm coming from is I had this brilliant live stream yesterday on my LinkedIn Live channel together with Wolfgang Brickwetter. He's an HR specialist and recruitment experience person from the Doc region, and he's been doing recruitment trends reports for over 1015 years. And we went through a lot of benchmark data because there's nothing we love more than benchmark data. And when it comes to, like, what are the hiring budget or the marketing budget for this TA team, or how much are they spending on these channels, or what's their average? And we went through a lot of this data, and what was really interesting was even if you have a super tight budget for Bahuma marketing or employee branding, which you might have in the times we're in, what you don't get is the change here is in terms of what I said before. You're not in a war for talent. You're a war for attention.
If you don't join the party now, it'll be exponentially more expensive next year and the year after that and the year after that. Because again, everyone is going into social recruiting. Everyone is understanding the need for the most epic candidate experience. Everyone is investing in this and if you're not joining the party, you're out of the game. So even with the tiniest recruitment marketing budget, and we looked into this cool benchmark data, I can send you some then later joe, even with the tiniest budget, you have to make sure these budgets are working the most efficiently for you. Building the talent pools, optimising the career page, not losing out on this valuable, relevant, diverse traffic that you are driving in some way, even if it's through search or outreach or automated process. With recruitment marketing, you have to make sure these tiny budgets work for you and you have to go where the candidates are. So I would naturally argue never to put all your eggs in one basket.
My approach to hiring with tiny budgets either way, is multichannel. You have to understand that the persona the average social media user has, I think it's on average 7.5 somi apps that they use, so they live in a universe of social media, meaning LinkedIn is not your golden or silver bullet, meta is not your silver bullet. TikTok might not be a silver bullet, but there is several platforms where people are living. And if you build in a super smart tactic, you don't have to spend billions of dollars in building these candidate experiences. You just have to make sure that your EVP is not be left for everyone to experience. Because who will type in VVV? Mycareepage mycareepage, my career? No one. No one knows. And how would I even know that H M is one of the biggest It employers in the world? I think of H M as clothing, I don't think of H M as AI engineers.
Right? So I wouldn't type in a career page because I would think H M is for clothing. There's all these differences in terms of mindset and how you have to approach shopping experience and online behaviour into incorporating that, into talent attraction. So I would still make sure my tiny budgets work for me, making sure I can collect the audiences, I can retarget the audiences, and I go broad on social media to make sure I can attract diverse potential.
So it starts this conversation with unearthing potential beyond the resume. The CV.
Yes.
So I'm a candidate, I've got a CV, I'm an employer, I want a CV. So how do I, as a candidate settle myself? Because the CV is a sales prospectus document. I actually want you to be biassed for me, so I actually want the right bias.
Isn't this so interesting? It's all made up from the beginning. I can chat, GBT, everything, right? So it's not even that's a problem. I want you to be biassed, but then again, are you assessing me on my readiness and my skills and everything that is me? So the whole thing, like the whole show, the whole charade of a CV is made up on non beneficial information for anyone, not anyone. So good point, though, in terms of how can I word you in this case, joe, you're going to challenge Tesla for Head of Universe, right? You want Tesla to hire you without a CV. What I encourage candidates to do is to actually question one, are you giving everyone the same chance for this job? Two, include assessments and testing as early as possible in the process. That means you're not weeding out anything, you're building to include people and give everyone the chance. And as long as you explain, it's super easy to have a little box of information in your online application journey saying, hey, we're putting our tests super early in the funnel because we want everyone given the same chance. You as well, make sure this will take you five minutes, sit somewhere comfortable, take a coffee and let's get started with a test.
Make sure it's built to include, not to exclude. And from there, if you want to use your gut feeling or if you want to have a look at a CV, do that later. Again, I always advocate and everyone does this, I believe the community is great. We always talk about challenging hiring managers and I don't think no recruiter ever on this earth have missed the fact that you have to be a strategic business partner. I believe everyone knows this, and I believe everyone does what they can about this, but it's still if you've done everything right from the beginning opened up the funnel, making sure you have automated an assessment and testing tools, making sure it's not heavy lifting, but you're still processing relevant talent pools. So when you get involved, it's still relevant to the role. And for diversity? Meaning if you've done everything right, your funnel is built on the best possible, inclusive way, you will end up with five equal good candidates. So if a hiring manager must, in this world, use their gut feeling, they can I mean, I'm not recommending it, but as a last step on paper, they can, right? Because you've built the process, securing that potential and diverse applicants had the chance to come through all the way to the last submission.
Right? So that is my whole thinking. I believe you have to challenge the fact how employers are assessing you. And I know this is happening today just as review sites or glassdoor or whatever, transparency into the hiring process is happening and it's going to blow up more than ever. But candidates are challenging employers how they're assessed and how they're measured, on how they're a match for this opportunity. And I believe we should be prepared and we should definitely proactively approach the candidate market with this. And we want to make sure that we don't build or go back to this charade where someone has a charade application paper in their hands and I have a charade assessment strategy where I spend 6 seconds sifting through a CV and like, hey, it's a good match. Yeah, I can read his name. Perfect.
No picture, not going to use it. Right? So there needs to be challenge, the whole thing needs to be challenged from both ends. And I believe employers have to have the answer. Why are you assessing me on my cover letter? Have to have the answer.
Yes, the ability to write a word document shouldn't be the basis on your.
Ability to rule the universe with generative AI. We're like, there's no substance. Mean, imagine the risk Tesla would take with you, Joanne. Not with you, of course, but I meant with your cover letter built on chat GPT for Head of Universe. Imagine the risk if they were to assess you on this piece of paper that you've been creating. Five minutes with Generative AI. It's no substance, it's no relevance, it's nothing. So I think the whole thing should be challenged from both ends.
So this process is completely fair. It's bias, it's mitigated as much as we can based on behaviours, it's based on competency, it's based on potential, not based on yesterday, it's based on tomorrow. All the kind of great things we know. But if my organisation has a gender equity problem, a pay gap problem, disability gap problem, or an ethnicity problem, if I can't bias the process towards female hires, or towards people of colour, or towards people with disability, I'll keep hiring, probably in the same ratio, or I won't change the ratio enough to fix my gap. Fix my ratio.
The leaking bucket.
How do I influence the funnel?
Naturally? I mean, this is the big question, right? And I believe there's so many great people out there discussing this and having the best answers ever. But of course you can't fill a leaking bucket with relevant applications if there's no foundation or environmental support for them to stay and thrive, right? So you have to look internally. Everyone is like you have to start with this first. I want to challenge and say that you can have two thoughts in your brain at once. We can have parallel activities happening, right? So there should always be an ongoing strategy and work for making sure everyone feel that they can turn up to work as their authentic self, they're supported as their authentic self, or as I said, unapologetically myself, right?
We're talking about here is the employee experience, the retention element. Get my retention, get my employee experience, right? Primarily.
Then go to market that's with air fryer Joe. What if I send you the shittiest old McDonald's frying super stinky thing to you and like, eh, it's an air fryer, whatever. It doesn't matter if you had the best online experience, right, if the product, if the reality then is met with a fraud. Right. So obviously, obviously you have to clean your house first, obviously. And you have to where you I believe what you're doing, Joanne, is making sure this is incorporated into the business, OKRs? It's not just a value proposition, it's not just a ta KPI, it's incorporated into our business KPIs. And this is ever have in terms of seasons. You could have a season of great hiring and great thriving and people staying for long, but then all of a sudden a whole department would quit because of XYZ and you have no diverse representation at all because of XYZ.
So this is ever ongoing and no, naturally, you cannot build the best online experience for candidates if it's met with the worst offline experience. I mean, that's just a waste of everyone's time, money and happiness.
I think what I'm hearing saying is you got to get yourself right. You got to be a look in the mirror. You're selling who you are. You're not selling something fake and inauthentic. You got to be walking the talk anthropologically yourselves as an organisation, but that still says you've got a 70 30 gender ratio. In my mind, you got to hire two women for every men, every man, otherwise you're not either not fixing the problem or the problem is getting worse. That's a real challenge. When we're looking at unbiased or debiased or anonymized recruitment processes, the ratio is likely to not change much.
Exactly. And the question of representation, because the outcome is not status quo, right. Our starting point is not equal. Our starting point was never 50 50 male female gender equality. Right? So we have to work from a starting point where I don't know the figure, but if it's 70% men in organisation and 30% women, that's our starting point. So then we have to have representation, and I believe boxing women and men in or grouping or all this stuff could be hurtful in the long run. But as a starting point, we have to have an active strategy in terms of making the foundation where we are equal. So naturally we have to approach the fact that, yes, there's going to be a lack of diversity or gender diversity or all parts here, and that needs to be taken into acknowledgment when you build the process and how you assess and how you again, make sure you have the most diverse teams in your company.
But there's also a danger in labelling right. In hiring as well, in the long run. But it's a very interesting question and it's an important question. And I think as to point, the starting point was never equal to begin with and that needs to be taken into consideration when you build your strategy.
I think you said it earlier, you don't just do one thing, you got to fix your you got to sweep the floor, clean the room, get your company the toxicity, the culture right. First, then you can do what you're talking about here is the behavioural outreach via social media. Then if you got a specific need around changing the ratio of the demographic in your organisation, that's a different targeted approach.
Yes.
You can use different recruitment, marketing, different outreach solutions exactly. To try and resolve gender or an ethnicity problem.
Yeah. Messaging as well. Messaging as well. So, again, what I'm usually getting questions because we do volumes of job campaigns on millions of campaigns on social media platforms. And we're not saying you have to dance and be a TikTok company where you have to have a super polished EVP employer branding. We're saying what people want is your authentic own personnel, explaining to them why they get supported to be their authentic self at work. This is what the candidate market want. They on TikTok, do not want you can dance saying it if you want to, but it's not expected.
We want authentic human connections. And just as with the shopping experience, you want real reviews. Right, Joanne? You're looking at the reviews for the air fryer. You want to make sure it's a verified buyer. You want to make sure it's a verified person. It's not getting paid to do the review. Same goes for canned experience. You want to make sure yep.
Okay. Hassan has worked in this company for four years. He's the head of engineer. He's been thriving in the company. This is why he stays. That's what you want to know. So, again, it comes down to authentic messaging, but the strategy needs to open up to attract diverse potential. And that comes down to a lot of these factors.
It's in the messaging, it's in distribution, it's in the AI powered solution, it's in targeting, but it definitely must be supported by authentic content. No one cares about donuts or whatever people goes for benefits of work. I actually do well. I thrive with I'm having a puppy and I get a lot of budgets approved and we get a lot of new hires because puppy at the office is really popular. But that's just me. And I did not buy the puppy to get more hires. But it was a big plus.
We've got to use different sorts of marketing and puppies turn people on, cats turn people on, children turn people on. Skiing. There's different ways of just attracting people and say, oh, this company just get a belongingness. Creating the belongingness, isn't it?
Exactly.
Sara, we could talk all day. We will again notice in future, I'm sure we'll do another podcast. We'll do a live stream sometime soon. But in the meantime, how can people get hold of you? You said you had a white paper or some research you can put in the show notes.
I'll put this in the show notes, absolutely. First of all, I will definitely link to Wolfgang Brickwedde's latest recruiting trends report because I believe everyone needs benchmark data. We also have our latest social recruiting trends analysis, which is really jam packed with how social media can help with inclusive hiring. And if they want to know more about adway, how we work and myself, it's just type in Adway AI and cheque out our talent attraction suite. And I am well addicted to LinkedIn, so I have my community there, I have a lot of engaged followers and I do a lot of live streams and discussions on there. So just type in Sara Dalsfeld on LinkedIn if you want to connect. And I'm happy to keep these discussions going. And that's what we do all the time, Joanne.
That's where you thrive in the community and keep educating and challenging old ways of hiring, which I love. You're one of my favourites in the newsfeed.
Thank you. I've got all blushing again. Thank you. Thank you so much. And thank you to you, the listener, for getting to the end staying this far. So I really appreciate your engagement. And if you've not already subscribed, please do subscribe and cheque out the back issues and the back episodes as well. This is the inclusion bites podcast.
That's B-I-T-E-S. Share the love. Share it with your colleagues, your friends and other people on LinkedIn. Of course, I've got other guests lined up and I'm sure you'll be inspired by them over the next few weeks and months. And, of course, if you'd like to be a guest as well, drop me a line together with any feedback, suggestions on how we can improve. That'd be fantastic. So, my email address jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk
And finally, my name is Joanne Lockwood. It has been an absolute pleasure to host this podcast for you today. Catch you next time. Bye.
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More from this recording
🔖 Titles
Unearthing Potential: Rethinking Talent Acquisition Beyond Resumes
Beyond Resumes: Transforming Talent Acquisition through Authentic Employer Branding
Inclusive Talent Attraction: Redefining Recruitment Marketing Strategies
Disrupting Recruitment Practices: The Power of Behaviour-Based Social Media Marketing
The Evolution of Talent Attraction: From CVs to Inclusive Marketing Strategies
Breaking Bias: Navigating the Intersection of Employer Branding and Inclusive Hiring
From CVs to Stories: The Impact of Authentic Employer Branding in Talent Attraction
Inclusive Hiring Strategies: Embracing Behaviour-Based Social Media Marketing
Unveiling Potential: Redefining Talent Acquisition Beyond Traditional Resumes
Shifting Paradigms: The Role of Employer Branding in Inclusive Recruitment Marketing
ℹ️ Introduction
Welcome to a new episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast! In today's episode, host Joanne Lockwood engages with guest Sara Dalsfelt, the Chief Marketing Officer at Adway, to explore the multifaceted world of talent attraction, recruitment marketing, and debiasing the hiring process.
The conversation delves into the pivotal importance of employer branding, the effective utilisation of social media in targeted talent outreach, and the critical need for behaviour-based marketing strategies. Sara's insightful perspective sheds light on the power of storytelling in recruitment, timely messaging for passive candidates, and the impact of a seamless candidate experience on long-term employer-candidate relationships.
Listeners can expect tangible insights on gender equity, diversity, and the quest for authentic inclusivity in hiring practices. Join Joanne and Sara as they uncover the potential of inclusive hiring strategies and the vital role of authentic messaging in sparking meaningful change.
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 Candidates see CVs as outdated and irrelevant, believing employers should assess them beyond paper.
05:52 The platform was built to harness diversity on social media, using AI to ensure inclusive hiring experiences.
09:21 Many teams focus on EVP, but neglect distribution strategies for reaching desired candidates, particularly passive and hard-to-reach talent. Inclusive and tailored social media approaches are crucial.
13:09 Focus on candidate engagement strategies for diversity and inclusion.
17:36 Utilising an experience to prompt action, such as purchasing a bag, requires an efficient process and feeling of security to capture a window of opportunity.
18:52 Personalised social media stories create active job candidates. Some roles take longer to fill due to passive job seekers. Timing and strategy are crucial.
22:56 Issues with team hiring, lack of diversity, repelling talent, and outdated practices.
26:41 Companies create sophisticated, timely ad experiences to build trust and avoid spamming customers with targeted ads, aiming for a storytelling approach in e-commerce for travel agencies.
30:34 Embrace inclusive hiring for positive change.
33:52 Hiring process should be inclusive, with easy initial steps and gamified experience to capture interest and encourage continued engagement.
35:39 Submit profile easily, no account needed. Smooth, relevant, secure process.
40:54 Champion diversity and cost of not embracing it in hiring, using data from HR specialist's livestream.
45:26 Challenging traditional CVs, advocating early testing for job applicants to ensure fairness and inclusivity.
46:46 Ensure inclusive hiring process for diverse talent, use gut feeling as last resort.
51:49 Ensuring product match, business integration, diversity importance.
53:50 The starting point is unequal, so active strategy for equal representation needed.
58:18 Promises show notes with resource links, discusses social recruiting, and promotes LinkedIn engagement.
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 CVs becoming obsolete as employers assess potential.
05:52 Created AI tools for diverse, inclusive hiring.
09:21 Teams focus on EVP, neglect distribution strategy.
13:09 Distribute strategy to attract diverse, relevant talent.
17:36 Seize the moment to secure a sale.
18:52 Personalised storytelling boosts engagement, cuts job search.
22:56 Hiring processes need to be more inclusive.
26:41 Sophisticated storytelling in targeted travel advertising.
30:34 Embrace inclusive hiring for positive workplace change.
33:52 Hiring process built to weed out candidates.
35:39 Apply simply, no account needed, secure process.
40:54 Inclusive investment in workforce - cost vs benefit.
45:26 CVs are biased, tests give equal chance.
46:46 Emphasise inclusive hiring to ensure diverse candidates.
51:49 Ensure air fryer Joe's market integrity, diversity.
53:50 Starting point not 50/50 gender equality.
58:18 Promoting recruiting trends, discussion and LinkedIn connections.
Episode Tags
Unearthing Potential, Beyond the Resume, Employer Branding, Recruitment Marketing, Talent Attraction, Debiasing Hiring, Outreach Strategies, Social Media Marketing, Inclusivity, Diversity and Equity
A Subtitle - A Single Sentence describing this episode
Sara Dalsfelt and Joanne Lockwood dive deep into the complexities of modern talent attraction, challenging traditional hiring methods and advocating for inclusive, behaviour-based recruitment approaches, ultimately encompassing a breadth of essential topics from employer branding and recruitment marketing to organizational values and authentic change.
Episode Summary with Intro, Key Points and a Takeaway
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, host Joanne engages with guest Sara Dalsfelt to explore the nuanced world of talent attraction, debiasing hiring processes, and reaching candidates through impactful social media marketing strategies.
Sara Dalsfelt presents powerful insights regarding the limitations of traditional hiring methods, advocating for conscious, early assessments that give everyone an equal chance. She sheds light on the need to target passive candidates through storytelling experiences over social media platforms, employing a sophisticated and timely approach to messaging, similar to the process used in online travel bookings. Sara's emphasis on the importance of authentic messaging in job campaigns, as well as the need for early evaluations and testing, challenges employers' assessment methods, advocating for a fair process based on behaviours, competence, and potential.
Joanne and Sara delve into the significance of addressing toxic cultures and employing different targeted approaches to foster diversity and inclusivity in the workplace. They discuss the need for authentic, non-invasive, and behaviour-based social media marketing while highlighting the challenges faced by small businesses in adapting to inclusive recruitment strategies.
A key takeaway from this engaging episode is the critical need to look beyond traditional resumes and CVs to unearth potential candidates. By incorporating inclusive, targeted marketing strategies and debiasing the hiring process, organisations can attract diverse talent and cultivate a more inclusive and equitable workforce.
Intrigued by the concept of reshaping talent attraction and hiring processes? Tune in to this thought-provoking episode to gain valuable insights and actionable strategies for creating a more inclusive and diverse workplace.
💬 Keywords
unconscious bias, inclusive hiring, employer branding, recruitment marketing, talent attraction, gender equity, diversity issues, toxic cultures, authentic messaging, social recruiting, social media targeting, candidate experience, personalised hiring, multichannel approach, passive candidates, diverse talent, behaviour-based marketing, storytelling, targeted advertising, bias mitigation, inclusive strategies, debiasing hiring, employee experience, retention, business KPIs, authenticity, gender ratio, recruitment automation, authentic employer branding, outreach strategies
💡 Speaker bios
Sara Dalsfelt is a forward-thinking advocate for a new approach to hiring and assessing potential. With a belief that the traditional CV is becoming outdated, Sara envisions a future where candidates will question the relevance of a piece of paper in proving their readiness and transferable skills. She sees beyond the resume and believes that the true potential of a person cannot be determined by a simple document. Sara is passionate about removing bias from the hiring process and pushing for a more holistic and fair approach to assessing candidates. With her innovative mindset, Sara is paving the way for a new era in the world of employment.
❇️ Key topics and bullets
Primary Topic: Employer Branding and Recruitment Marketing
Importance of an authentic and inclusive employer brand
Emphasising the need for a sophisticated and non-invasive approach to targeted advertising
Aligning business Key Performance Indicators (KPIs) with values
Making the most of recruitment marketing budgets using multichannel approaches
Providing a storytelling experience tailored to specific social media channels
Leveraging tech and automation for social media targeting in recruitment marketing
Sub-Topic: Talent Attraction and Engagement
Attracting diverse talents through authentic messaging in job campaigns
Utilising storytelling and timing in the recruitment process
Creating a seamless candidate experience akin to an ideal customer experience
Emphasising the need for a personalized and inclusive hiring experience
Using puppies, cats, and children in marketing approaches to create a sense of belongingness in the company
Making the application process easy, including one-click application and gamified experiences
Sub-Topic: Debiasing the Hiring Process
Advocating for fair and debiased hiring processes
Challenging traditional assessment methods and promoting early assessments to give everyone an equal chance
Mitigating biases based on behaviours, competence, and potential
Addressing gender equity, pay gap, disability, and ethnicity problems within the hiring process
Pushing for hiring practices that address gender ratio issues and aim for real change in inclusivity
Sub-Topic: Outreach and Behaviour-Based Social Media Marketing
Utilising social media targeting to reach a broad pool of potential candidates
Engaging passive candidates through personalised storytelling
Emphasising the importance of timing in targeting passive candidates
Comparing the process of luring in passive candidates to the approach used in online travel bookings
Advocating for a refined and non-invasive approach to targeted advertising that aligns with user expectations
🗞️ Newsletter
Subject: Unearthing Potential: Beyond the Resume - New Episode Alert!
Dear Inclusion Advocates,
We are thrilled to announce the release of a thought-provoking new episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, titled "Unearthing Potential, Beyond the Resume". In this episode, our host Joanne Lockwood is joined by the insightful Sara Dalsfelt, Chief Marketing Officer at Adway, for an engaging discussion on employer branding, recruitment marketing, talent attraction, debiasing the hiring process, outreach, and behavior-based social media marketing.
Sara delves into the limitations of assessing candidates purely based on their CVs, advocating for a more inclusive hiring approach that embraces new tools and technologies to assess potential early in the hiring process. She emphasises the importance of authentic messaging in job campaigns and attracting a diverse talent pool, challenging traditional recruitment methods and advocating for fair and bias-mitigated processes.
The conversation also touches on the need for gender equity, mitigating pay gaps, addressing disability and ethnicity issues in the workplace, aligning business KPIs with values, and driving real change for inclusivity. Sara and Joanne highlight the significance of individual candidate experiences, retention, and the imperative need for a refined and non-invasive approach to targeted advertising that aligns with user expectations.
If you are passionate about creating a more inclusive and diverse workforce and revolutionising your recruitment strategies, this episode is a must-listen. Join us in this eye-opening conversation as we navigate the landscapes of recruitment, talent attraction and the transformation of the hiring process to uncover hidden potential beyond the traditional resume.
Tune in to this enlightening episode on your favourite podcast platform and be prepared to challenge your perspectives.
Thank you for being a part of our inclusive community, and don't forget to share your thoughts and feedback with us. Your input is invaluable in shaping our future discussions.
Warm regards,
[Your Name]
[Podcast Name] Team
Guest's content for their marketing
Absolutely, I understand the requirements and the focus of the article. Here's a suggestion for the article:
Unearthing Potential: Sara Dalsfelt's Insightful Journey on The Inclusion Bites Podcast
Sara Dalsfelt, the Chief Marketing Officer at Adway, recently graced The Inclusion Bites Podcast, hosted by Joanne Lockwood, to share her invaluable insights on unearthing potential beyond the traditional resume and CV.
As a guest on Episode 89 titled "Unearthing Potential, Beyond the Resume", Sara brought to the forefront the critical need for a more inclusive approach to talent attraction and debiasing the hiring process. With an in-depth focus on employer branding, recruitment marketing, and behaviour-based social media outreach, Sara's expertise illuminated the path to a more diverse and inclusive workforce.
Sara's valuable contributions to the podcast encompassed a holistic view of the recruitment process, where the focus went beyond traditional hiring methods. She emphasised the need for authentic and personalised messaging in job campaigns to attract diverse talents, and advocated for a seamless candidate experience akin to an ideal customer experience.
The engaging conversation highlighted the power of harnessing tech and automation to reach a broad pool of potential candidates through social media targeting. Sara's insights underscored the importance of aligning business KPIs with values to drive real change for inclusivity in the hiring process.
Crucially, Sara Dalsfelt's discussion on the challenges faced by small businesses in adapting to inclusive hiring strategies and the need for a refined and non-invasive approach to targeted advertising provided practical takeaways for listeners striving to enhance their recruitment strategies.
Sara's compelling presence on The Inclusion Bites Podcast served as an empowering guide for all striving to create a more inclusive hiring journey and unearth the untapped potential of diverse talent.
Listeners were left inspired by Sara's commitment to driving real change in the recruitment landscape, placing authenticity and fairness at the forefront of the hiring process. Her extensive knowledge and advocacy for a fair, behaviour-based assessment approach left an indelible mark on the conversation.
In conclusion, Sara Dalsfelt's participation on The Inclusion Bites Podcast reflected her unwavering dedication to championing inclusive hiring strategies and redefining the talent attraction landscape. Her expertise and passion shone through, leaving an enduring impact on every listener.
To connect with Sara Dalsfelt and delve deeper into the realm of inclusive talent attraction and recruitment marketing, listeners are encouraged to reach out to her on LinkedIn, where her wealth of knowledge continues to flourish.
The episode featuring Sara Dalsfelt on The Inclusion Bites Podcast left an indelible imprint on the pursuit of unearthing potential beyond the resume, motivating every listener to embrace change and foster inclusivity in their talent acquisition journey.
This article aims to capture the essence of Sara Dalsfelt's insights and the impact of her participation on The Inclusion Bites Podcast, focusing on her expertise in inclusive talent attraction and recruitment marketing.
Questions Asked that were insightful
Here are some insightful questions from the interview that could be turned into FAQs for the audience:
How can employers create an authentic and inclusive employer branding message to attract diverse talent?
What are the challenges small businesses face in adapting to inclusive recruitment marketing strategies, and how can they overcome these challenges?
In what ways can employers debias their hiring process and ensure a fair evaluation of candidates based on behaviours, competence, and potential?
What are the key components of an effective talent attraction strategy using social media marketing, and how can employers tailor their approach to reach a diverse pool of potential candidates?
How can employers align their business KPIs with their values to promote a more inclusive and diverse workplace culture?
These questions can serve as the basis for insightful FAQs for the podcast audience, providing valuable insights and practical advice on topics related to employer branding, recruitment marketing, debiasing the hiring process, and promoting diversity and inclusion in the workplace.
Pain Points and Challenges
In this episode of the Inclusion Bites Podcast, several pain points and challenges were discussed, and addressing these issues is crucial for creating a more inclusive and effective hiring process. Here are some of the key challenges discussed, along with content focused on addressing them:
Unconscious Bias in Hiring: Traditional hiring methods often contain unconscious biases that limit the potential talent pool and perpetuate inequality. To address this, organisations should implement debiasing strategies such as blind resume reviews and behaviour-based assessments.
Inclusive Employer Branding and Marketing: Many organisations struggle to create authentic and inclusive employer branding and recruitment marketing. Content should focus on the importance of authentic messaging, storytelling, and leveraging diverse channels to attract a wide pool of candidates.
Ineffective Recruitment Marketing Strategies: The distribution strategy for reaching desired candidates is often neglected, and small businesses may struggle to adapt to new recruitment marketing strategies. Content should emphasise the importance of utilising multichannel approaches and targeting diverse potential candidates beyond traditional platforms.
Engaging Passive Candidates: Attracting passive candidates through non-invasive and personalised storytelling experiences over social media platforms can be challenging. Content should highlight the need for a refined and timely approach and the use of gamified experiences to engage passive candidates.
Addressing Gender Equity and Diversity : A lack of gender equity, pay gap, and diversity issues remain prevalent in many organisations. Content should focus on practical steps to mitigate these problems, highlighting the importance of authentic change and real inclusivity.
Creating a Seamless Candidate Experience: The candidate experience is often overlooked, leading to poor relationships with potential employees and impacting future recruitment efforts. Content should stress the need for a seamless and personalised candidate experience similar to an ideal customer experience.
To address these pain points and challenges, the podcast content could feature expert interviews, case studies, and actionable tips for implementing inclusive employer branding, debiasing hiring processes, and engaging diverse talent through effective recruitment marketing strategies. Additionally, highlighting the importance of genuine and lasting change in promoting diversity and inclusivity within organisations would be essential.
Blog article based on the episode
Unearthing Potential, Beyond the Resume: A New Paradigm for Inclusive Hiring
In a world inundated with resumes and CVs, is it possible that we are missing out on exceptional talent that can't be encapsulated in a single, static document? This question lies at the heart of the latest episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast with Joanne Lockwood and Sara Dalsfelt, Chief Marketing Officer at Adway, titled "Unearthing Potential, Beyond the Resume." The conversation is an eye-opener, delving into the limitations of traditional hiring practices and presenting actionable strategies for a more inclusive and effective hiring process.
The problem is clear - relying solely on CVs and resumes can lead to biased hiring decisions and limit the potential of diverse talent. Sara Dalsfelt passionately explores this issue, advocating for a shift in mindset towards a more inclusive approach to attracting and assessing candidates. She shares insights into the importance of authentic messaging in job campaigns, as well as the need for a more proactive and strategic effort to achieve gender equity, address pay gaps, and mitigate disability and ethnicity-related hiring challenges.
So, what can organisations do to address these critical issues and embrace a more inclusive hiring approach? First and foremost, it's crucial to recognise the power of employer branding and recruitment marketing. Sara sheds light on the significance of starting the talent attraction process well before launching a job campaign and emphasises the need for authenticity and a consistent message throughout the organisation.
Additionally, the conversation highlights the impact of using targeted approaches in recruitment marketing, resembling the sophistication of online travel bookings. Leveraging behavioural targeting and algorithms to eliminate biases, Sara underscores the importance of providing a personalised storytelling experience tailored to specific social media channels. The goal is to reach a broad and diverse talent pool, using a non-invasive and refined approach that aligns with user expectations.
Furthermore, Sara emphasises the need for a seamless and engaging candidate experience, an area often overlooked in traditional hiring processes. Drawing parallels between candidate and customer experiences, she underscores the crucial impact of a poor candidate experience on future employer-candidate relationships. By valuing and prioritising candidates similar to valuable customers, recruiters can build stronger connections and foster a more inclusive hiring environment.
To explore a more inclusive approach to hiring, it is essential to assess candidates beyond their CVs and resumes. Sara advocates for early assessments and testing, ensuring that everyone is given an equal chance based on their behaviours, competencies, and potential. This approach debiases the hiring process and opens the door to a more diverse pool of talent. Addressing the gender ratio issue becomes a strategic priority, requiring organisations to align business KPIs with their values and push for real change to foster inclusivity.
Inspired by the insightful conversation on The Inclusion Bites Podcast, here are some actionable takeaways for organisations looking to embrace a more inclusive hiring approach:
Revamp Your Employer Branding: Start the talent attraction process well before launching a job campaign. Ensure that your messaging is authentic and consistent, resonating with diverse candidates and showcasing the inclusive nature of your organisation.
Embrace Recruitment Marketing: Utilise targeted and behaviour-based approaches in your recruitment marketing. Tailor your messaging to specific social media channels and leverage algorithms to reach a broad and diverse talent pool.
Prioritise Candidate Experience: Recognise the impact of a seamless and engaging candidate experience. Value and prioritise your candidates like valuable customers, providing them with a personalised and inclusive hiring journey.
Debias Your Hiring Process: Look beyond CVs and resumes. Embrace early assessments and testing to evaluate candidates based on their behaviours, competencies, and potential, mitigating biases and opening doors to diverse talent.
In conclusion, the conversation with Sara Dalsfelt on The Inclusion Bites Podcast has shed light on the need for a paradigm shift in the hiring process. By rethinking traditional practices and embracing a more inclusive approach, organisations can unearth the potential of diverse talent beyond the constraints of resumes and CVs. Let's take this inspiration and drive real change in our hiring processes, working towards a more inclusive and diverse workforce.
As Joanne Lockwood aptly concludes the podcast, let's share this message and invite feedback from our community. Engage with us, share the podcast, and join the conversation as we strive for a more inclusive future in our workplaces.
To hear the full conversation and gain further insights, tune in to The Inclusion Bites Podcast and explore Episode 89, "Unearthing Potential, Beyond the Resume."
The standout line from this episode
"Addressing toxic cultures and using different targeted approaches to create a sense of belongingness in the company."
❓ Questions
How can organisations ensure that their employer branding and recruitment marketing efforts are authentic and inclusive, particularly in reaching diverse talent pools?
What are some effective strategies for debiasing the hiring process and assessing candidates based on behaviours, competency, and potential rather than traditional CVs/resumes?
In what ways can businesses align their key performance indicators (KPIs) with their values to drive real change towards inclusivity in their hiring and retention practices?
How can targeted advertising and social media outreach be used to create an inclusive and non-invasive experience for potential candidates, aligning with their expectations and preferences?
What are the challenges faced by small businesses in adapting to more inclusive hiring strategies, and what are some practical steps they can take to overcome these challenges?
How important is the candidate experience in the recruitment process, and what impact does a poor candidate experience have on future employer-candidate relationships?
What are some examples of effective storytelling and timing in the recruitment process, and how can this approach be used to attract passive candidates and create a seamless experience?
How can organisations address gender equity, pay gap, disability, and ethnicity disparities in their hiring practices, and what strategies can be implemented to mitigate such issues?
What role does employee experience play in talent attraction and retention, and how can businesses create an environment that fosters diversity, inclusivity, and belonging?
What are some examples of successful strategies for addressing the unequal gender balance in organisations and actively working towards achieving equality in the workplace?
These questions would be well-suited to further explore the topics covered in the episode and engage listeners in thoughtful discussions about diversity and inclusion in recruitment and hiring.
FAQs from the Episode
FAQ: Unearthing Potential, Beyond the Resume
Q: What is the significance of employer branding in today's recruitment landscape?
A: Employer branding is crucial in attracting diverse talent and creating a sense of belonging within an organization. It involves shaping the company's reputation as an employer of choice through authentic messaging and creating a compelling value proposition for potential candidates.
Q: How can companies use recruitment marketing to attract a diverse pool of candidates?
A: Companies can utilise recruitment marketing to reach potential candidates through multichannel approaches beyond traditional platforms. This involves utilising technology and automation to reach a broad pool of candidates by tailoring storytelling experiences to specific social media channels.
Q: How can organisations ensure a fair and inclusive hiring process while addressing biases?
A: Organisations can promote a fair and inclusive hiring process by adopting early assessments and testing to give all candidates an equal opportunity. By focusing on behaviours, competencies, and potential, employers can mitigate bias and open doors to a more diverse talent pool.
Q: What is the role of outreach and behaviour-based social media marketing in talent attraction?
A: Outreach and behaviour-based social media marketing play a crucial role in reaching passive candidates and engaging them with personalised storytelling experiences. This approach involves utilising sophisticated and timely messaging to attract potential candidates and create a more inclusive hiring process.
Q: How can companies align business KPIs with values to drive inclusivity and diversity efforts?
A: Companies can align their business Key Performance Indicators (KPIs) with values by integrating diversity and inclusivity goals into their strategic objectives. This ensures that the pursuit of diversity and inclusivity becomes an integral part of the company's mission and vision.
Q: Why is it important to debunk traditional biases associated with CVs and resumes in the hiring process?
A: It is essential to debunk traditional biases associated with CVs and resumes to unlock the potential of a more diverse talent pool. Over-reliance on CVs can limit the assessment of candidates based on their true potential and perpetuate biases in hiring decisions.
Q: How can companies address gender equity, pay gap, disabilities, and ethnicity issues in their hiring processes?
A: Companies can address gender equity, pay gap, disabilities, and ethnicity issues by actively mitigating biases and implementing strategies to attract and assess talent based on competencies and potential. This entails creating a fair and inclusive hiring process that values diversity and focuses on real change for inclusivity.
Q: What are the key considerations for enhancing employee experience and retention in relation to diversity and inclusion efforts?
A: Enhancing employee experience and retention in the context of diversity and inclusion involves creating a supportive and inclusive work environment. This includes providing equal opportunities for growth and advancement, addressing biases, and fostering a culture that values diversity and empowers all employees.
Q: How can companies use storytelling and branding to create a sense of belonging for potential candidates?
A: Companies can use storytelling and branding to create a sense of belonging for potential candidates by crafting authentic messages, creating a compelling employer value proposition, and showcasing the company's commitment to diversity and inclusion. This helps potential candidates see themselves as integral parts of the organization.
Q: What strategies can small businesses adopt to adapt to inclusive hiring and recruitment marketing?
A: Small businesses can adapt to inclusive hiring and recruitment marketing by leveraging cost-effective multichannel approaches and utilising technology to reach a diverse talent pool. By prioritising fairness and inclusivity in the hiring process, small businesses can attract a more diverse range of potential candidates.
Tell me more about the guest and their views
Sara Dalsfelt, the Chief Marketing Officer at Adway, joined the Inclusion Bites Podcast to share her insights on employer branding, recruitment marketing, and talent attraction. She emphasises the need for authenticity in messaging, using targeted approaches to attract diverse talent and mitigate biases in the hiring process.
Sara advocates for addressing gender equity, pay gap, disability, and ethnicity problems in organisations. She stresses the importance of employee experience, retention, and aligning business KPIs with values. Sara is a strong proponent of real change for inclusivity, emphasising the need for hiring practices to address gender ratio issues.
In the episode, Sara discusses the challenges of broadening the demographic talent pool in a cost-effective manner and shares her expertise on using behaviour-based social media marketing to reach and engage passive candidates. She advocates for personalised storytelling experiences and a non-invasive approach to targeted advertising that aligns with user expectations.
Overall, Sara Dalsfelt's views and expertise centre around creating inclusive hiring strategies, using marketing approaches to attract diverse talent, and advocating for real change in employee recruitment and retention practices.
Ideas for Future Training and Workshops based on this Episode
Future training and workshops could include the following topics inspired by the episode:
Inclusive Hiring Strategies: Explore how to develop and implement an inclusive hiring process that assesses candidates beyond traditional CVs, ensuring fairness and diversity at every stage.
Behaviour-Based Social Media Marketing: Delve into the techniques and tools for targeted social media marketing to attract diverse talent, understanding user behaviours and creating personalised storytelling experiences.
Debiasing the Hiring Process: Address implicit biases in recruitment and hiring, focusing on techniques to mitigate biases and assess candidates based on behaviours, competence, and potential, leading to a fair and inclusive process.
Employer Branding and Recruitment Marketing: Discuss the importance of employer branding and recruitment marketing in attracting diverse candidates, highlighting strategies for authentic messaging, storytelling, and reaching potential candidates beyond traditional platforms.
Creating an Inclusive Employee Experience: Explore the impact of the candidate experience on future employee engagement and retention, emphasising the need to align business KPIs with inclusive values and making real changes for inclusivity in the workplace.
These topics can provide valuable learning opportunities for HR professionals, hiring managers, and recruitment teams to enhance their understanding of inclusive hiring, recruitment marketing, and employer branding, ultimately fostering diverse and inclusive workplaces.
🪡 Threads by Instagram
Uncover talent beyond the CV! In our latest podcast, Sara Dalsfelt and Joanne Lockwood discuss the imperative of reaching diverse candidates through authentic storytelling and inclusive recruitment marketing.
Pushing the boundaries of talent attraction! We delve into the need for personalized, behavior-based social media marketing to engage potential candidates and eliminate bias in the hiring process.
Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in action! Our guests address gender equity, disability representation, and pay gap mitigation, advocating for real change through fair, values-aligned hiring practices.
Let's talk about outreach! We explore the power of early assessments and non-invasive targeted advertising to engage passive candidates and create a seamless hiring experience aligned with user expectations.
Redefining recruitment strategies! Join our discussion on the impact of toxic cultures, the importance of inclusive employer branding, and the need to align business objectives with values for real change in hiring.
Leadership Insights - YouTube Short Video Script on Common Problems for Leaders to Address
Title: Leadership Insights Channel
[Opening shot of a professional office setting]
Narrator: Welcome to the Leadership Insights Channel, where we uncover common leadership challenges and provide actionable solutions for a positive outcome.
[Cut to footage of a diverse group of employees collaborating in a meeting]
Narrator: Today's topic: Unearthing Potential in Recruitment.
[Cut to a shot of a leader reviewing CVs/resumes]
Narrator: As a leader, you may face the common problem of relying solely on CVs and resumes during the hiring process.
[Cut to a shot of a diverse group of employees engaged in a brainstorming session]
Narrator: The positive outcome? Embracing inclusive strategies to attract diverse talent begins with understanding the limitations of traditional hiring methods.
[Cut to a shot of targeted recruitment marketing on social media]
Narrator: Action 1: Embrace Recruitment Marketing.
[Cut to a shot of leaders engaging with potential candidates]
Narrator: Action 2: Reach out to potential candidates directly using behavioural targeting and algorithms to eliminate bias.
[Cut to a shot of a candidate applying for a job using one-click application]
Narrator: Action 3: Provide a seamless candidate experience with easy application processes, including gamified experiences.
[Cut to a shot of a leader reviewing diverse candidates' profiles]
Narrator: By implementing these actions, you will not only attract diverse talent but also create a more inclusive and equitable hiring process.
[Closing shot of a diverse team celebrating a successful hire]
Narrator: Stay tuned for more leadership insights. Remember, unearthing potential in recruitment starts with embracing inclusive strategies.
[End screen with the Leadership Insights Channel logo and social media links]
Narrator: Subscribe for more leadership insights and actionable solutions.
[Background music fades out]
[End of video]
SEO Optimised Titles
"Unleashing Inclusive Hiring Strategies: Access Talent Beyond CVs | Sara @Adway"
"Attract Diverse Top Talent: Harnessing Targeted Social Media Ads | Sara @Adway"
"Authentic Employer Branding: Differential Recruitment Strategies | Sara @Adway"
Listicle with Image Recommendations
Title: Unearthing Potential: 10 Game-Changing Insights from the Inclusion Bites Podcast
Debiasing the Hiring Process
Discover how traditional CVs may limit potential candidates and how to overcome biases in the recruitment process.
Image recommendations: Diverse group of professionals working together, an image highlighting unconscious bias, a visual representation of inclusive hiring practices.
Authentic Recruitment Marketing
Uncover the power of authentic messaging in job campaigns and strategies for attracting diverse talent.
Image recommendations: A compelling recruitment advertisement, a diverse group of employees sharing positive experiences, an engaging employer branding image.
Gender Equity and Diversity
Delve into the need for gender equity, mitigating the pay gap, and addressing issues with disability and ethnicity in the workplace.
Image recommendations: Women in leadership roles, a diverse team celebrating success, a visual representation of diversity and inclusivity in the workplace.
Behaviour-Based Social Media Marketing
Explore the impact of targeted advertising and behavioural targeting in reaching diverse potential candidates.
Image recommendations: Social media marketing analytics, a visual representation of targeted advertising, a diverse group engaging with social media content.
Inclusive Employer Branding
Understand the importance of employer branding and value proposition in attracting diverse talents.
Image recommendations: A striking employer branding advertisement, a visual representation of company values, a diverse group of employees presenting a united front.
Personalised Candidate Experience
Learn about the significance of a seamless candidate experience and its impact on employer-candidate relationships.
Image recommendations: An engaging candidate experience infographic, a visual representation of a positive recruitment process, a diverse group of candidates experiencing a personalised approach.
Multichannel Recruitment Marketing
Gain insights into utilising multichannel approaches for attracting diverse potential candidates beyond traditional platforms.
Image recommendations: A comprehensive multichannel recruitment strategy, a diverse group engaging with different recruitment channels, a visual representation of innovative recruitment marketing.
Storytelling in Talent Attraction
Embrace the power of storytelling and the timing of recruitment marketing in influencing potential candidates.
Image recommendations: Visual storytelling elements, a compelling talent attraction story, a diverse group engaging with an authentic brand narrative.
Inclusivity in Hiring Strategies
Uncover inclusive strategies for attracting diverse talents beyond traditional methods and platforms.
Image recommendations: Diverse candidates engaging with innovative recruitment strategies, a visual representation of inclusive hiring, a compelling recruitment marketing image.
Aligning Business Values with Inclusivity
Explore the importance of aligning business KPIs with values and advocating for authentic change towards inclusivity.
Image recommendations: Visual representation of diversity and inclusion as a core value, a diverse team reflecting company values, an image showcasing the alignment of business KPIs with inclusivity.
These images would create a visual narrative that complements and enriches the key insights from the podcast, captivating the audience and resonating with the themes of inclusivity, diversity, and authentic recruitment marketing.
Email Newsletter about this Podcast Episode
Subject: Unearthing Potential, Beyond the Resume - A Must-Listen Podcast Episode
Hello Inclusion Enthusiasts!
Hope you're having a fantastic day! I've just wrapped up another enlightening episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, and this time, we dived deep into the world of talent attraction and inclusive hiring strategies. It's an episode you won't want to miss, so let's jump right in.
Here are 5 key takeaways from this insightful episode:
The importance of authentic messaging in job campaigns and attracting diverse talent.
Leveraging different marketing approaches, such as using storytelling and behavioural-based social media marketing to create a sense of belongingness in the company.
The need for a refined and non-invasive approach to targeted advertising that aligns with user expectations.
The impact of a poor candidate experience on future employer-candidate relationships and the value of a seamless candidate experience similar to an ideal customer experience.
The emphasis on unbiased, early assessments and testing to give everyone an equal chance, as well as the need to address gender ratio issues in hiring.
Did you know that Sara Dalsfelt shared an eye-opening fact about the impact of a poor candidate experience on future employer-candidate relationships? It truly underscores the need for a seamless and inclusive recruitment process.
Now, here's your call to action: Tune in to this episode to gain valuable insights into inclusive hiring, employer branding, recruitment marketing, and talent attraction strategies. Let's expand our understanding of creating a more diverse and inclusive workplace together!
Finish the week on a positive note by giving the episode a listen and sharing it with your network. Don't forget to drop us your feedback and guest suggestions for future episodes. Remember, inclusion starts with conversations, so let's keep them going!
Warm regards,
[Your Name]
[Podcast Name] Listener
Potted Summary
Intro: Welcome to the Inclusion Bites Podcast! In this episode, host Joanne Lockwood and guest Sara Dalsfelt delve into the world of employer branding, recruitment marketing, and talent attraction. They explore methods to debias the hiring process and the power of behaviour-based social media marketing. Get ready to unearth potential beyond the resume!
In this conversation we discuss:
👉 Employer branding
👉 Recruitment marketing
👉 Talent attraction
Favourite quotable moments:
"Authenticity and real change for inclusivity."
"Pushing for hiring to address gender ratio issues."
"Challenges employers' assessment methods, advocates for a fair process."
Summary: Join us as we uncover the secrets of successful talent attraction and inclusive hiring strategies. Tune in to gain insight on transforming your hiring process and making a real impact in your organisation. Don't miss out – listen to the full episode now!
LinkedIn Poll
LinkedIn Poll Question: What's Your Key to Inclusive Hiring? 💬 #DiversityAtWork
CV debiasing
Authentic messaging
Behaviour targeting
Multichannel outreach
Highlight the Importance of this topic on LinkedIn
🌟 As a Senior Leader in HR or DEI, I've just dived into an insightful discussion on the Inclusion Bites Podcast about the critical landscape of employer branding, recruitment marketing, and talent attraction. 🎙️
The conversation unveiled the need to debias our hiring processes, embrace behaviour-based social media marketing, and strive for genuine inclusion in our workplaces. 🌐
It's vital for us to address gender equity, pay gaps, disability, and ethnicity challenges while aligning business KPIs with our core values. Let's spark authentic change and create a more inclusive future together! 🌈✨
#EmployerBranding #InclusiveHiring #TalentAttraction #DiversityandInclusion #HRLeadership
L&D Insights
🎙️ In Episode 89 of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Sara Dalsfelt and Joanne Lockwood discuss groundbreaking strategies for employer branding, recruitment marketing, and talent attraction. They uncover the need for debiasing the hiring process through behaviour-based social media marketing and authentically addressing diversity and inclusion. Senior leaders, HR professionals, and EDI specialists will find invaluable insights in this resource.
🌟 Key "aha moments" include the critical need to move beyond traditional hiring methods and embrace automated outreach techniques to attract a diverse talent pool. It stresses the importance of storytelling, personalisation, and timing in the recruitment process, underlining the value of a seamless candidate experience.
🔄 Based on this resource, professionals should consider reevaluating their recruitment strategies to focus on behaviour-based social media marketing, authentic employer branding, and inclusive hiring. This shift can significantly impact the effectiveness of attracting and retaining diverse talent.
#InclusiveRecruitment #BehaviourBasedMarketing #AuthenticEmployerBranding #DiversityandInclusion #SeamlessCandidateExperience
Big Ideas from the Episode
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Sara Dalsfelt, Chief Marketing Officer at Adway, and host Joanne Lockwood dive into the world of inclusive hiring and talent attraction. They challenge traditional approaches to recruitment and advocate for a more personalised and inclusive hiring experience. The episode explores the importance of employer branding, recruitment marketing, debiasing the hiring process, and the power of behaviour-based social media marketing. The key takeaway is the need for organisations to authentically address diversity, inclusion, and representation in their hiring practices and employer branding strategies, while leveraging innovative approaches to attract diverse talent.
Glossary of Terms and Phrases
Inclusive Hiring Strategy - This refers to a deliberate and conscious approach to hiring that aims to attract and assess a diverse pool of potential candidates. The strategy utilises technology and automation, including social media targeting, to eliminate bias and reach a broad and varied talent pool.
Employer Branding - This refers to the process of promoting a company, as an employer, to a desired target group, with a focus on what makes the organization unique and appealing as a place to work. It encompasses the company's reputation, values, culture, and employee value proposition (EVP).
Value Proposition - This relates to the unique qualities and benefits that a company offers to its employees. This includes the overall value of working at the organisation, as well as specific benefits, rewards, and opportunities.
Recruitment Marketing - This term refers to the strategies and tactics used to attract, engage, and nurture potential candidates before they apply for a job. It involves building brand awareness, promoting the employer brand, and engaging with potential candidates using various marketing techniques.
Social Media Targeting - This concept involves using technology to segment and target specific audiences on social media platforms based on their demographics, interests, and online behaviour. It is used to reach potential candidates with tailored messages and job opportunities.
Passive Candidates - These are individuals who are not actively job searching but may be open to new opportunities. The strategy involves reaching out to these candidates through targeted advertising and authentic storytelling to pique their interest in potential roles.
Debiasing the Hiring Process - This concept involves mitigating bias in the hiring process, including unconscious biases related to gender, ethnicity, disability, and other factors. It aims to create a fair and equitable process by focusing on behaviours, competence, and potential rather than traditional assessment methods.
Behaviour-Based Marketing - This approach involves tailoring marketing messages based on an individual's online behaviour, interests, and preferences. It aims to create a personalised and engaging experience through storytelling and targeted advertising.
These concepts are central to the episode's discussions around creating a more inclusive and effective hiring process, utilising innovative marketing strategies to attract diverse talent, and addressing biases in traditional recruitment methods.
SEO Optimised YouTube Content
Focus Keyword: Positive People Experiences
Title: Building Positive People Experiences through Culture Change | #InclusionBitesPodcast
Tags: positive work culture, employee experience, diversity and inclusion, culture transformation, inclusive hiring, debiasing recruitment, talent attraction, employer branding, social media marketing, inclusive workplace, diversity in hiring, female leaders, recruitment strategies, workplace diversity, gender equity, candidate experience, workplace inclusion strategies, inclusive leadership, inclusive culture change, diversity in the workplace, talent management, diversity recruitment,
Killer Quote: "To build a truly inclusive workplace, we need to focus on creating positive people experiences and drive culture change." - Joanne Lockwood
Hashtags: #CultureChange #InclusiveWorkplace #DiversityAndInclusion #PositivePeopleExperiences #EmployerBranding #TalentAttraction #InclusiveHiring #BiasMitigation #RecruitmentMarketing #WorkplaceInclusion #InclusiveLeadership #DiverseTalent #RecruitmentStrategies
Why Listen:
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, I have a thought-provoking conversation with Sara Dalsfelt, Chief Marketing Officer at Adway. We delve deep into the realm of creating positive people experiences in the workplace and driving culture change. Our discussion uncovers the essential strategies for building an inclusive workplace culture, from redefining employer branding to attracting diverse talent. We explore the need for bias mitigation in recruitment processes and the pivotal role of social media marketing in promoting diversity and inclusion. By focusing on these insights, we uncover actionable strategies to nurture a culture of belonging and drive positive people experiences. Tune in to gain invaluable knowledge on transforming your workplace culture and fostering inclusive environments.
Closing Summary and Call to Action:
Embrace a more inclusive approach to employer branding to attract diverse talent.
Rethink recruitment marketing strategies to promote workplace diversity and equality.
Implement bias mitigation measures in the hiring process to ensure a fair and inclusive experience for all candidates.
Leverage the power of social media marketing to target a diverse pool of potential candidates and drive culture change.
Prioritize positive people experiences within your organization to foster an inclusive workplace culture.
Take actionable steps to redefine your employer value proposition and align it with values of diversity and inclusion.
Advocate for gender equity, pay gap mitigation, and addressing challenges related to disability and ethnicity in the workplace.
Drive real change in inclusivity by aligning business key performance indicators with inclusion values.
Focus on the authenticity of messaging in job campaigns to attract diverse talent and promote a culture of belonging.
Recognize the value of structured and behavior-based social media marketing in talent attraction and recruitment.
Outro:
Thank you for tuning in to The Inclusion Bites Podcast. Don't forget to like, share, and subscribe to our channel for more insightful conversations on inclusion and belonging in the workplace. For additional resources and episodes, visit the SEE Change Happen website and listen to The Inclusion Bites Podcast on your favourite podcast platform.
Stay curious, stay kind, and stay inclusive.
Joanne Lockwood
Root Cause Analyst - Why!
The key problems related to this episode include biases in the hiring process, challenges in talent attraction, and the need for more inclusive recruitment strategies.
Problem: Biases in the hiring process
Why? Traditional assessment methods rely heavily on CVs, leading to potential biases based on factors like gender, ethnicity, and ability, limiting the potential for inclusivity.
Why? Hiring based on CVs allows subjective judgements to influence decision-making, resulting in biased assessments that favour certain demographics.
Why? Hiring managers may unconsciously hold biases influenced by societal norms, personal experiences, and cultural stereotypes, affecting their evaluation of candidates.
Why? Lacking awareness and training on bias mitigation in hiring processes allows these biases to persist, impacting diversity and inclusion efforts.
Why? The absence of structured, behaviour-based assessment methods and diverse interview panels means that traditional hiring practices perpetuate biases, hindering inclusivity.
Solutions: Implement behaviour-based assessment tools, provide bias training for hiring managers, and establish diverse interview panels to mitigate biases in the hiring process.
Problem: Challenges in talent attraction
Why? Many organisations focus on employer branding and value propositions but neglect the distribution strategy for reaching desired candidates effectively.
Why? Limited focus on targeted, multichannel approaches prevents organisations from attracting a diverse pool of potential candidates beyond traditional platforms.
Why? The lack of understanding or integration of inclusive recruitment strategies within smaller businesses limits their ability to effectively target diverse talent pools.
Why? Insufficient utilisation of tech and automation for outreach prevents organisations from reaching a broad range of potential candidates through social media targeting.
Why? Without a refined and non-invasive approach to targeted advertising, organisations struggle to align with user expectations and effectively attract diverse talent.
Solutions: Expand recruitment marketing budgets to include multichannel approaches, provide education and support for small businesses to integrate inclusive strategies, and refine targeted advertising approaches to align with user expectations.
In summary, the root causes of biases in hiring processes are a reliance on CVs, unconscious biases, lack of mitigation strategies, and absence of behaviour-based assessments. Challenges in talent attraction stem from limited distribution strategies, lack of inclusive recruitment integration for smaller businesses, and a need for refined targeted advertising. Implementing behaviour-based assessments, bias training, diverse interview panels, expanding recruitment marketing approaches, and refining targeted advertising can address these issues and promote inclusivity in hiring.
TikTok/Reels/Shorts Video Summary
Focus Keyword: Positive People Experiences
Title: "Creating Positive People Experiences | #InclusionBitesPodcast"
Tags: #PositivePeopleExperiences, #InclusionBitesPodcast, #TalentAttraction, #RecruitmentMarketing, #BehaviourBasedMarketing, #EmployerBranding, #CultureChange, #InclusiveHiring, #DiverseTalent, #InclusionMatters, #HRStrategies, #CareerDevelopment, #EqualityInWorkplace, #DigitalStorytelling, #InclusiveLeadership, #DiversityAndInclusion, #SocialRecruiting, #Belongingness, #WorkplaceEquity, #SkillsAssessment, #UnconsciousBias, #InclusiveCulture, #PodcastDiscussion, #JoanneLockwood, #SaraDalsfelt
Killer Quote: "Advocates for early assessments and testing to give everyone equal chance" - Sara Dalsfelt
Hashtags: #RecruitmentStrategies, #EqualityAtWork, #InclusiveRecruitment, #TalentAcquisition, #MarketingDiversity, #WorkplaceInclusion, #InclusivityMatters, #HRInsights, #EmpowerTalent, #ChangeAgents, #DiversityWins, #UnbiasedHiring, #InclusiveLeaders, #StorytellingInBusiness, #EvaluatingPotential, #InclusiveEmployers, #PodcastListeners, #JoinTheDiscussion, #InclusivityWins, #InclusionAdvocate
Summary description:
Join me, Joanne Lockwood, on this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, where I delve into the power of creating Positive People Experiences with our insightful guest, Sara Dalsfelt. Together, we explore the transformative impact of Culture Change, Behaviour-Based Social Media Marketing, and inclusive hiring strategies. Discover how Sara's killer insights challenge traditional recruitment methods and provide an equal chance for everyone. Together, let's drive change and champion inclusion in our workplaces. Tune in and amplify Positive People Experiences with us! Don't miss this episode, and be the change your workplace needs.
Outro:
Thank you, the listener, for tuning in. Don't forget to like and subscribe to the channel for more thought-provoking content. For more information, visit the SEE Change Happen website: https://seechangehappen.co.uk. Listen to the full episode of "The Inclusion Bites Podcast" here: https://seechangehappen.co.uk/inclusion-bites-listen. Stay curious, stay kind, and stay inclusive - Joanne Lockwood
Canva Slider Checklist
Best Practices Checklist |
|---|
1. Employer Branding |
2. Inclusive Talent Attraction |
3. Recruitment Marketing Techniques |
4. Debiasing the Hiring Process |
5. Behaviour-Based Social Media Marketing |
Closing Call to Action |
|---|
Connect with Joanne Lockwood at SEE Change Happen for cutting-edge insights on inclusive recruitment. Visit our website at https://seechangehappen.co.uk to start the conversation and drive positive change. |
6 major topics
Title: Unearthing Potential, Beyond the Resume
In today's conversation with Sara Dalsfelt, we delved into key topics that are central to creating an inclusive recruitment strategy, aligning with employer branding, and the importance of debiasing the hiring process. Our exchange was a treasure trove of insights, and I'm thrilled to share the major points with you.
The Power of Employer Branding
Sara, you raised such a crucial point about the impact of employer branding on talent attraction. It's fascinating how it can shape the perception and appeal of an organization to potential candidates. I'd love to delve deeper into strategies that can help companies amplify their employer brand and attract diverse talent. What a journey that would be!
Recruitment Marketing: The Art of Attraction
Our discussion about recruitment marketing was truly eye-opening. The notion of utilizing multichannel approaches to attract diverse potential candidates beyond traditional platforms was particularly intriguing. It seems that the key to unlocking potential lies in dynamic and authentic storytelling. Let's explore how companies can craft their unique narratives to draw in a broader demographic of talent.
Debiasing the Hiring Process
Sara, your insights into the importance of fairness and equity in the hiring process were thought-provoking. It's clear that traditional assessment methods may not be as inclusive as we once thought. The need to mitigate bias based on behaviours, competence, and potential plays such a vital role in fostering a more inclusive workspace. I'm fascinated to learn more about how employers can take proactive steps to ensure a fair and bias-free hiring process.
The Power of Outreach and Behaviour-Based Social Media Marketing
Our discourse on reaching passive candidates through behaviour-based social media marketing was enlightening. The comparison to online travel bookings really resonated. The idea of seizing that window of opportunity to deliver timely and custom-tailored messaging is fascinating. I can't wait to explore how companies can effectively use this approach to attract potential candidates.
Employee Experience and Retention
Sara, your emphasis on the importance of employee experience and retention truly struck a chord. It's clear that nurturing an inclusive environment is integral for long-term success. The alignment of business KPIs with values is a compelling notion that I'd love to delve into further. It's incredible to think of the impact that creating an authentic, supportive culture can have on shaping a company's future.
Fostering Real Change for Inclusivity
Our exchange about the need for real change to foster inclusivity was incredibly insightful. The call to address gender ratio issues and push for authentic and meaningful diversity was truly thought-provoking. The idea of intertwining business goals with lasting value is something that I believe many of our listeners will find compelling. I’m eager to explore how companies can take practical steps to ignite genuine change in their approach to inclusivity.
In our conversation with Sara, we unearthed so many valuable insights that are vital for reshaping recruitment strategies and creating more inclusive workplaces. I hope you found these discussions as thought-provoking as I did. If you enjoyed this exploration, don't hesitate to share it with your colleagues, and let us know your thoughts. We'd love to hear from you!
Slogans and Image Prompts
Slogan: "Unearth Potential Beyond the Resume"
AI Image Generation Prompt: Create an eye-catching image featuring a shovel uncovering a vibrant, diverse array of professional talents, with the podcast title and hashtag #UnearthPotential prominently displayed.Soundbite: "Diversity Beyond Words"
AI Image Generation Prompt: Generate an image of a diverse group of individuals linked by impactful, uplifting visual elements, paired with a bold, inclusive font stating "Diversity Beyond Words" and the podcast's logo.Quote: "Behaviour-Based Recruiting for Real Change"
AI Image Generation Prompt: Design a striking image of puzzle pieces fitting together to symbolize inclusivity and diversity in the workplace, accompanied by the quote in bold, dynamic typography and the podcast's social media handle.Slogan: "Inclusivity Starts with Authentic Storytelling"
AI Image Generation Prompt: Create a visually compelling graphic with a quill pen crafting diverse narratives, accompanied by the slogan and a vibrant, inclusive colour palette, suitable for use on merchandise and social media posts.Soundbite: "Uncover, Embrace, Empower"
AI Image Generation Prompt: Use AI to generate an empowering image of diverse individuals rising together, with the podcast's title on a banner and the soundbite #UncoverEmbraceEmpower integrated in a modern, stylish font.Quote: "Dismantle Bias, Elevate Potential"
AI Image Generation Prompt: Craft an impactful graphic depicting a ladder breaking through barriers, paired with the quote and the podcast's logo, to embody the journey of breaking stereotypes and unlocking potential.
These merchandise and hashtag ideas aim to capture the essence of the episode, offering visually appealing and memorable content that listeners would be proud to showcase and share on various platforms.
The Hook
What if your hiring process could uncover diamonds in the rough, just waiting to shine?
Think your recruitment strategy is solid? Wait till you hear this game-changing insight.
Heard about recruitment marketing? Get ready to uncover a seismic shift in how you attract top talent.
Looking to elevate your hiring process? Brace yourself for a surprising revelation that could do just that.
Want to boost your talent attraction? Then you won't want to miss this mind-blowing recruitment strategy insight.
Inclusion Bites Spotlight
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Sara Dalsfelt, the Chief Marketing Officer at Adway, provides a captivating perspective on employer branding, recruitment marketing, and talent attraction. Sara advocates for debiasing the hiring process and utilising behaviour-based social media marketing to create an inclusive and diverse workforce. She emphasises the importance of authenticity and real change for inclusivity. At the heart of her insights is the need to align business KPIs with values to foster a more inclusive environment within organisations. Her expertise sheds light on the challenges faced by companies in broadening their demographic talent pools and the strategies needed to address gender equity, pay gaps, disability and ethnicity-related issues in the workplace. Sara's commitment to reshaping the recruitment landscape aligns with the podcast's mission to unearth potential beyond traditional hiring methods and foster a space where every individual feels seen, heard, and valued. Tune in to discover Sara's invaluable insights on creating a more inclusive and empowering recruitment process, and join us as we explore the transformative power of recruitment marketing in creating more inclusive workplaces.
YouTube Description
Title: Unearth Potential Beyond the CV: Debiasing Hiring with Behaviour-Based Marketing
Description:
Are traditional CVs limiting your talent pool? In this episode of the Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood and guest Sara Dalsfelt challenge the norms of hiring, revealing how behaviour-based marketing and recruitment strategies can transform your approach to talent acquisition. Discover the secrets to inclusive hiring, employer branding, and leveraging social media for targeted outreach.
Key Insights:
Unearth potential beyond CVs and resumes, embracing behaviour-based recruitment strategies
The impact of authentic messaging and storytelling in talent attraction
Debiasing the hiring process and fostering gender equality, addressing the pay gap and diversity challenges
The importance of employee experience, retention, and aligning business KPIs with values
Transforming recruitment marketing to attract diverse and talented individuals
Closing Takeaways & Actions:
Rethink your hiring approach and embrace behaviour-based marketing
Commit to authentic and inclusive employer branding
Prioritise debiasing your hiring process and fostering diversity and inclusion
Join us in unearthing potential beyond traditional hiring methods and revolutionising your talent acquisition strategy! #InclusiveRecruitment #EmployerBranding #BehaviourBasedMarketing #GenderEquality #TalentAttraction #InclusionMatters #DiverseTalent #DebiasingHiring #TransformationalRecruitment #HiringInclusion
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