#237 - Allegra Shaw & Shirin Soltani - Uncle Studios: Building A Creator Led Brand 101

What's up, Dtcpod? Today we're joined by Allegra Shaw and Sharin Sultani, who are the founders of Uncle Studios. So, guys, I'll let you guys kick us off. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourselves, your background, and what you're building with Uncle Studios.

Sure. I'm allegra shaw. I am a full time content creator and the co founder of Uncle Studios. I make YouTube videos, I do TikTok, I do Instagram, I do all the things. And we co founded Uncle Studios at the end of 2017, which we'll obviously get into. But Shirt and I have been friends for, oh, my God, like, over ten years now. And, yeah, we started the brand together. So I'll let Sharon introduce herself.

Hi, guys. I'm Sharon. I'm also one of the co founders of Uncle Studios. And like Allegra spoke, we started this thing about five years ago. And building a business with a friend has had its challenges, especially in the content creator realm. But it's been a lot of fun, and we're really excited about what we're building, and it's really community focused, and we've been learning a lot on our journey. So we're happy to be on the channel today and kind of shed some light on what we're doing here.

No, that's amazing. And I think maybe what we can do is we can start off we can kind of set context in terms of allegra maybe how you got started as a creator and then moving from that into saying, like, oh, I want to start a business with one of my friends who I've known and trusted for a while and then being able to start Uncle Studios. So why don't you take us back a little bit before? How did you get your start as a creator? What platforms were you creating on and what did growth look like for what you were doing?

Sure, yeah. So I actually started making YouTube videos back in 2011. I was definitely one of the not like, first creators, but on YouTube there wasn't a lot going on. I started YouTube pretty much because I was like, I mean, as most of us do, not having the best time in high school. And I was just finishing high school and I just couldn't really find my place. I saw people, some people making these fashion and beauty videos, and I was just like, okay, I think I can do this. I like fashion, I like beauty. I'm just going to do it.

So I started and then I did it as a hobby for a long time, well into university and even past university. And then when I came out of university, I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. I have a history degree. What's my job going to be? And I was like, okay, I think I could do this full time. My mom gave me, like, a year to sort it out and to live at home. And she's like, okay, but in a year you need to get your shit together and move out. And if this doesn't work out for you, you need to actually find a job. I was like, all right, I can do this in a year.

And so I started putting out videos very consistently, three times a week. I started taking it very seriously and looking at trends, and it ended up growing and I ended up moving out, very proud of myself. And then I got my first brand deal and it kind of moved into a full time role and it's kind of just been, like, going ever, you know, sharon and I met in university and she was kind of in the like she liked YouTube.

Yeah, I feel I remember first when we first met, we were in university and we were both actually just like we didn't have a great first year and we were trying to make some friends and we connected. And I remember finding her Instagram and seeing that she had a bit of a following. And I'm like, so strange. Instagram just had come out. It wasn't really a thing. And I loved YouTube. I was, like, watching all the beauty content creators. And then when I found out Allegro was doing that, it was like a very instant thing.

We connected on beauty, fashion styling, clothes, shopping. So that was kind of like the beginning connection that we had. It was both just like a love for that industry. And I don't even think we knew of it as an industry. It was just something we both genuinely love and we both really enjoyed it. It wasn't this like, we were thinking business minded. It was just like Bernard's love. And then I guess we can kind of talk on how we got started.

We were very naively, like, oh, yeah, let's start a fashion. Like, it wasn't something that we saw, oh, Allegra has a following. This is really smart. Let's build a fashion brand from her following. It was loved it I think when.

We first even came out with the idea, I wasn't even that big on social media yet. It was kind of like although I was doing it full time and it was my full time job, it definitely was still very new.

Yeah.

And the idea of starting a fashion brand was very separate from being a content creator, where I think now with these influencer brands, it's obviously very interconnected and it is with us now, but at the time, it was like it was two different ends.

We're going to start a fashion brand. And it was just literally out of love. I think it was just a space that we both felt very passionate about. And we were young, we were naive, and we're like, It can't be that hard, let's figure it out. And we first started as a boutique. We were actually working with wholesale brands, kind of being like, yeah, we're going to have a curated selection. And once we saw the quality of the clothes that we were dealing with and buying from, I think it was kind of, Why are we doing this? You can get these brands so many other places and it's not good. And the reason we wanted to start was, like, we were having the same problems.

We were buying the same white T shirts and the same one and done shirts from the H M, the Zaras, and we wanted to do it better. And I think, obviously, Uncle Studios was conceptualized with the white tee, which was a piece of clothing that Both, Allegra and I had bought, like, a hundred versions of. They never stood the test of time in the wash, and it was something that we both felt really confident in. So whether it was like, for a date night or going to the bar, we'd always come back to a white T shirt. We throw on a cool jacket on top or accessorize in the summer. So we're like, let's figure it out. It can't be that hard. A lot of googling.

Again, we didn't have anyone in a network in the fashion industry someone to call up or give us an introduction. And I think at that time, it wasn't really a thing like it is today, where there's platforms where you can connect with. It was a lot of cold calling and driving around in the boonies of Toronto where our manufacturing industry was. So, again, we don't have fashion design experience. So, again, it was just a big learning curve. And we're like, It can't be that hard. And if we're going to do it, let's make sure that we're being mindful of the fabrics we're using and where it's getting cut and sewn. So that's where it happened.

We like a sustainable clean. It wasn't a buzzword back then. We were just like, if we're going to do it, let's not put garbage out.

So if you started content creating content around 2011, 2012, what year was it when you decided to start the brand and what was your following size or audience at that time?

So we started our boutique in 2016. It was a very short lived little stint. It was about a year. And my following size on YouTube then was I hit 100,000 on YouTube in 2016. So pretty small. My Instagram. I had this really weird I didn't want my Instagram, my YouTube to be connected, which such a regret. So I didn't even have ten K on Instagram at that point.

Well instagram. Could have been for private live.

Yeah, I was trying to keep it for just my friends because I didn't have any thing that was just for my friends and some select diehard followers. I realized now that was absolutely dumb and I should have been promoting my Instagram the whole time. So we started glad rags It was called Gladregs at the time and then we lasted about a year. And then at the end of 2017, around the end of November, we really launched Uncle Studios as to what it is today.

Yeah. Even though there wasn't the platforms and stuff, even though it was harder to start the fashion brand. But you did have to go into the weeds and learn every single aspect of the business. How do you think that helped you and gave you an advantage versus what could creators miss a day by just tapping into one of these platforms that you were actually able to learn because you had to dive deep and understand the whole thing?

Well, I think there's pros and cons to both. Right? We obviously made as many founders do, you make a lot of mistakes, you lose money with these mistakes, but you learn from them and you fail quickly and you'll never make those mistakes again. Whereas now there's so many platforms that these more established platforms will. They've already done all the legwork and you get to kind of profit off that. But I think there's a lot of pros to really knowing the business and knowing how things are made. I'm sure and can obviously speak more on this. She really does handle our production.

I think. Again, the difference here and of course, like allegra said, there's pros and cons. We are legitimately building something from the ground up. Whereas when you do connect with these platforms, those relationships with the manufacturers are already made. You don't have to learn what a tech pack is. You don't have to go through the pains of figuring out how to fix a sample and is this manufacturer trustworthy and how do you negotiate? Because all these things are sort of already dealt for you and you're really just kind of taking creative direction role in the product development stage of it. Which again is amazing, especially if you've built a community and a taste for yourself. It's a great way to kind of promote that.

But at Uncle I think something that is something that we are proud of is that we are so directly involved in our supply chain. We know everyone who we work with, we know their names, we know what's going on in their lives. And it maybe has slowed down our growth process a little bit. But at the end of the day, we know we are really building it from the bottom up, like 100% us. So again, pros and cons, but it does speak a lot on also you learn about the industry. So if someone, for instance, you are working with a new platform and they might not be cutting you the best deal, you don't know because you don't really know how much these things cost. They'll be like, okay, no problem. We'll make you a hoodie for $60.

You don't really know what the rate goes for making a hoodie. So when you're working at it and you're building it from conception to product, you know, where every single penny goes, you also appreciate the process more. The end product feels so much more incredible because you did see it from a sketch on a piece of paper to the final iteration of it.

And I think what is also maybe different about uncle is that we are building a brand that is a standalone brand and it will thrive and stand alone without me. And that is the end goal. It doesn't need me and my following to survive. It has its own fan base, it has its own lovers and diehard people that will always purchase and I will not have to be at the forefront of the brand forever. And that is truly the end goal.

Yeah.

And how do you do that? Right? Like creators might be listening and like, wait, that's impossible. I'm the face of my brand, I'm the creator. How do you go about doing that? What does that mean that there's no crossover in audiences? Can you dive deeper into what it means that it would be standalone?

So I think I have a bigger following than uncle at this time. And I think that's a really great entry point. But I think because the quality of our clothing, the uniqueness of our storytelling and our creative aspects to our brand, once we have the entry point from the customer, they fall in love with the brand themselves. They get their product and they love it and they want to come back and they want to have a closet of uncle because it fits their taste and their aesthetic and they might still follow me and love me and love how I style things, but they fall in love with the brand outside of me. And I think it just has to do with your product and how great your product is.

So people definitely find the brand too, before necessarily finding you.

Yeah, I mean, that's like my favorite thing ever when I see customers DMing the brand and then I go onto their profiles and they don't even follow me, and I'm like, this is amazing. The best feeling, right? They love the brand all on their own.

Yeah. I mean, one of the things that really stood out for us when we were checking out the brand was just like, the production quality in terms of clearly you guys do a lot in terms of your art direction. There's a clear brand that's being communicated. It has this very cinematic, sort of cool quality to it, and I think that kind of definitely comes across. So the next question that I would have is, when you were starting to spin up this brand, like you had mentioned, obviously it's a product of you and you're starting with some of your audience, but you ultimately want it to become its own thing, right? So what did that look like in the early days in terms of let's start with what products did you guys just start with when you launched?

Right?

And what was like the MVP, the first iteration? Once you had had a product, like, I think you had mentioned the T shirt that you wanted to sell, what was like the first version of the website channel or what did the early days of the brand look like from that perspective?

We've changed a lot. We've done many reiterations of the website. We started with a T shirt, and then we had sweatpants and hoodies and the classic things that you can kind of get your footing in with manufacturing.

It was also right at the time, before capsule wardrobes were a big rave and right before everlane, to be honest. So the white T shirt was something that we started, and our offering at the time was very like what you would call basics. We had the tees, the tanks, the sweatsuits. And again, I think that looking back at it, in hindsight, it was the right thing to do because you got to figure it out. Right. Again, we don't have design experience. So building a T shirt, the tech pack of that versus some of the tailored pieces we're bringing out today is night and day, so you got to start somewhere. And having those learning blocks of the basics helped us.

So, again, it was almost like it was what was in reach for us. And we did live in basics. We were building our wardrobes. We were just students, and our taste was developing. And it started with simple building blocks.

Of your wardrobe, as we think everyone's wardrobe should really start out with when you're building out a wardrobe, we still recommend getting your basics down and then adding your personality in. So the T shirt that we made at the end of 2017 is still the T shirt. Same pattern, it's still the same. It is our tried and true. And so for us, that's five years of the same product and I still have the exact same one I had back then. So I know that T shirt lasts because I've put that T shirt through hell and it still looks great.

And it also fits into the story that we're telling with uncle as the brand develops is know you do need those building blocks in your wardrobe to then curate your taste. And our community is kind of like we're walking our community through curating and discovering your own taste and building your wardrobe to reflect your personality, your style, and the clothes that make you feel good. At the end of the day, the whole company's ethos was built on how you feel when you put on your favorite T shirt. And what we were aiming to achieve was that that favorite T shirt was from us. But again, it was really honing in on the way. Clothes, when they fit you well and they're your favorite piece, make you feel when you go about your day. So it was basics, but that's because basics always make you feel good. They're like a comfort blanket.

Yeah, you need basics. I live in basics, so I totally get that. So it sounds like you guys started with the basics as you guys were getting the hang of learning this industry that kind of allowed you to understand how to start building relationships with different sourcing partners and manufacturing, getting a couple of product lines stood up. And then once you were able to kind of solve for that, land on a product that you really liked, you were able to say, okay, now we can start branching out, getting a little bit more creative, introducing new product lines, potentially working with other sourcers. Is that kind of how the evolution of the business happened as you developed more brand and storytelling around that as well?

I would actually say that the Pandemic was like, do I wish it didn't happen? Yeah, of course. But it was kind of a blessing for our business because we actually, for the first time, got to stop and be like, okay, let's sit down and think about because when you start a business, we launched it without any we just launched. We're so naive. No big launch no big launch party or anything. We launched and then we just were like, let's just go, like, run. And we were sprinting until the Pandemic. And then we're like, okay, why don't we just chill for a second, stop and let's think about what uncle is, what uncle is going to be, and how we're going to get there. And so as everyone did we launched a lot of sweatsuits during the Pandemic because that's what everyone was living in.

But during that time, we got to figure out what we were really doing. And then coming out of the Pandemic, that's when we kind of I feel like the real brand personality has shone with the cinematic videos and that really beautiful, high quality creative that is the brand personality. But we needed the Pandemic to actually get there.

Yeah, and I think at that time, right before the Pandemic, too, is when that industry got really noisy. Creators were a big thing. And I think even the Pandemic really blew up the creator industry, too, because everyone was at home. And let me pick up a camera. I can't be all that hard or everyone's in sweatsuits. You can search up a quick wholesaler and put a fun little slogan on a crew neck and call yourself a brand owner. So I think at that point, the noise was a lot and we're like, listen, we don't want to contribute to this noise. What is in the DNA of uncle that makes us special and keeps the community around? And that's when I think we were like, this is the direction.

Let's go back to our roots basics pieces in your wardrobe that are going to last forever. They make you feel good, they have some personality and they help reflect your taste.

So Allegra, you have your own personal content for your personal brand. And given that you've separated the brand, now you also have to drive the creative strategy for the brand. So you're almost simultaneously running two creative strategies, right? How do you separate those? Do you sit as a manager in the creative direction of the brand and then focus on creating your content for your personal? What is the dynamic between those two?

So for my personal yeah, I still pretty much do everything. I think of all the ideas, I do have, like a video editor that helps me out, but it's really just like me, it's how it used to be. It's me, my house, making content. On the uncle side, we do have a small creative team. We have Anthony and Bobby. Big shout out to them. They're incredible. And so I manage them and we bring either my ideas or their ideas to life as a team.

So I definitely have help on that side because I think if it was just me doing both, I just wouldn't have any creativity left in me. I would just be struggling.

And I think, though, when we're building out the strategy, we know having the data from what Allegra can push well, the content that serves well on her channel, obviously we take that information and we kind of bring that to uncle strategy because why not? It'd be stupid not to. Especially because she does have such a large and loyal audience and we're not a place yet where we're directly working with a ton of content creators, but when we get there, we have all this free knowledge at our expense so that we know what works, what makes it an easy relationship with brand to creator. And she also then has a lot of insight on how brands do some of their marketing because she works directly with so many brands, so they are very separate, but we do do a lot of cross brainstorming.

Yeah, it's like separate, but also very.

One thing. One thing allegra is I know you had just mentioned that while you have Uncle Sue's, which is your own brand, you obviously do all the content creation for your own channels and your own platforms. So you're working with other brands. Are you working and collaborating with other brands as well? And if you are, how does that work and how does it work alongside your strategy with what you're doing with uncle? Because that's a really cool way to think about it.

Yeah, I don't really work with anyone that I would see as, like, a full on direct competitor to uncle, but there are so many other brands that I work with. I work with beauty brands, food brands, clothing brands as well. I do a lot of luxury stuff, so it makes sense. I will turn down deals that are what I think are direct competitors because there's no better piece than an uncle piece. I don't need to promote a brand because I have my own, and I love the pieces.

Okay, so Allegra, after you had launched and after you had started seeing some sales, right, what were the indicators that this was really starting to take off? And what were the first semblances of traction that you really knew that you guys were onto something as a team?

I think just the feedback. We really respect our community's feedback, and it was really positive. People were like, things were selling out. People were obsessed with their product. They would DM us to be like, when is this coming back in this color or this? And when you get that customer feedback, it just like you're like, okay, let's keep going. People love it. So the sales were coming in. We were selling out of products too quickly for us to even be able to make more, and people were just the DMs were coming in, and the sales were coming in.

So we knew we had something special, and we knew we had to keep going. And we love the pieces that we make. Most of the things we wear every day are our uncle. And we knew at that point that we wanted to get to a place that your whole entire outfit could be uncle. And five years later, we can finally say that you can have an entire pants, shirts, sweaters, coats. We have everything now. Took a while, but we got there, and we're still getting that really great feedback. So, yeah, we're really happy with how it is right now.

And I think getting also, like, obviously when you first launch, you're getting a lot of your friends and family supporting you as well as people from allegris community. But seeing people come back a second time and a third time, we're like, okay, you know what, they're not just being nice anymore. They like the product, they're coming back. They want to be in the community. So I think that was really reassuring. And to this day, a lot of our customers are all returning customers and we have some people who have been with us since day one and they shop every single drop. And I think that's really incredible to see that there is the longevity of that customer journey and they're growing up with us. So it's really sweet to see, just.

Like they say that you can't judge a restaurant in its first six months. You can't really figure out if you have a good brand and product in the first six months to a year because your friends and family are really supporting you and buying. And that's amazing and they should for sure, but it's when that kind of drops off and then you see the actual customer base come through is when you can kind of figure out whether or not you actually have something special.

Yeah. And that has to be actually kind of a little bit more difficult thing to suss out in the fashion and apparel space, because you're working in a product that, yes, it's hyper competitive. There's so many options for buying clothing, but at the same time, anyone if you launch your brand, you're like, hey, guys, I'm launching my brand. Everyone can buy a basic T shirt, right? Everyone can fit another t shirt in their closet. But then when they start coming back and coming back again, that's kind of when you know you have something. Because I'm sure a lot of shoppers, once you find a brand, it's hard enough to find a brand that's good and makes great quality products. So I think also from your guys'perspective taking a real product first approach and making sure that, hey, we're building the right collection, we're building it the right way, so that we are going to want people to come back. That's probably a really important piece because once you have a loyal customer, they're really going to want to come back and shop from you guys again and again.

And we really value their opinion. Even when we're creating product, we ask them what color they would like to see and we take that feedback when we do ask it on our socials or on my socials, we do take that feedback very seriously in terms of what they want to see. So that when we are coming in with product, it's not just what we like or what we think is trendy. It's like this is actual community driven data. So that we're coming with products that. They want, too.

What do you guys wish you knew when you were getting started out? What were some of the bigger challenges that you're like, man, I made my life so much harder by not knowing.

That I'm like, let me get my massive list out. I think Sharon can speak a lot on this because she does oversee a lot of the production. I mean, I wish I knew everything I knew now. I wish I just took that and it could go back five years.

I think it's just really important to know. I think there's beauty in the naivety that we had when we're that young to try something new like this, but you don't realize how hard it is, how expensive it is, especially when you want to do it right and work with reliable, clean, ethical manufacturers. So I think knowledge is power, but there's also something beautiful about not knowing and the unknown and just, like, going headfirst in. Some things I wish we knew is obviously how long it takes to kind of develop a product and making sure it's good, especially now that we do have a bigger collection and we're not doing just like, focusing on one product at a time. New categories take, I don't know, twelve months to really go from conception to final product. It's not like this quick turnaround. We're not fast fashion where we can bang out things in six weeks. It takes a long time and it is a labor of love.

And you can't rush these things, especially when it's new categories, new fabrics, new fits. And you see people, especially who work with platforms, you see how fast they're doing things and you get kind of like, lost in the noise. But I feel like I would tell myself these things take time and you got to be patient. And you just kind of have to fall in love with the journey of trial and error. And it's expensive and it takes a long time. Those are the big two ones that I wish I could tell myself three.

Years ago, and don't get me wrong, we still make mistakes to this day, but I feel like everyone does. Even if you're working at a huge company, you're always going to make mistakes. But as long as you learn from those mistakes, you fail quickly and you just have to move on. That's the only thing you can do.

Yeah, and like, of course be okay with, like, making mistakes. I think, like, we got really sometimes we were really hard on ourselves, and I think we forget that, like, that is part of the journey. Like, you haven't seen one successful business owner or entrepreneur be like, well, every decision was everything was great and every percent success. It's like you hear the downfalls and the ups and the downs and just reminding yourself that it is so part of the journey. You probably won't see success if you don't have really shitty months and really shitty weeks and maybe a bust of a product that's normal.

Were there any points in time that you guys what were some of those examples of things that didn't go your way? You were like, oh, man, this went wrong. Were there any mistakes that happened? Like a shipment of a product that was like the wrong development or anything else like that that really stood out? And you guys were like, oh, man, we really got to fix this.

We have oh, my God, there's so many.

But one that always stands out to me is one of our first pop ups.

Okay, yeah, I was going to say the exact same thing.

We decided to go into a new category and do a dress. And it was like a satin finish, but only one side of the fabric is satin and the other side is a bit more matte. And it was produced by the same guys who do our T shirts and our joggers. And we worked with them like, Glisten, can you do this? And he's a business owner. At the end, he's like, of course, no problem. I'm like, the fabric is a little different than what you normally use. Are you sure you're good? He's like, yeah, we had a ton of meetings. We figured out the samples.

But usually when you're making your sample, you use a bit of, like a cheaper fabric than what you're going into production with. So the sample was good, this and that. And we saw a version of it, and then he had to go into production and he was supposed to give it to us the day of our pop up. We get it. And he sewn the fabric inside out. So instead of side out, it was the mat side out.

And it was like a mess. Like, the sewing was a mess, especially.

With satin materials like this. Sometimes you have to cut it on an angle for the skirt to drape funny. It was just like Wheeler. It was Jaws were to the ground. And we're like, crisis control. What do we do? So, thankfully, we had done it in two fabrics. One of them was like a printed stretchy material, which was like more of a basic. So we had products still for the pop up, but it was like, chaos.

It was chaos. I was also going to say the one where we got the hoodies and the print was like five times what we had done. And we had all of these hoodies that had a massive print on it. And we were like, this is not what we wanted. There's been so many times like that. Or when we did socks and they came and they were bright, big bird yellow. That was actually pretty recent.

Yeah, shit happened to this day, especially because you work with manufacturers and you have tech packs, but it's not like you were going there to the sewing machine and being like, this is what I want. There's still so much room for misunderstandings and things getting lost in translation. But I think sometimes we get so honed in on the details. Like, for instance, that graphic that came up too big, we knew because in our head we wanted it smaller, but then we showed it to someone else. It looks amazing. I love the graphic. And we're like, oh wait, so it doesn't look too blown up to you. Sometimes some mistakes we think is a mistake.

You take a step back and you're like, you know what? It's not the end of the world. We can still make this work. It's still cool, it's still on brand.

And listen, sometimes manufacturers just kind of do whatever.

They throw their own spin on things.

So are those expensive missed lessons? Or given that the manufacturer does whatever they want, those end up being expensive lessons? Or are there tips for creators that want to build their own brands to be able to set things up front, to then be able to have a resolution if this ever were to happen?

Yeah, obviously the dress mishap was a very expensive mistake. That honestly, there was nothing that we could have done other than be at the sewing machine with everyone. There wasn't really anything we could do. But for example, we just had a sample come in and the manufacturer has just put a ruffle on it. There's no indication that there should be a ruffle on this shirt, right? They just did it. But I think Sharin has gotten really great at negotiating and being like, well, you did this, so the next sample needs to be correct. And that's when you can negotiate prices. And if they've made a know, you can get the next sample for free.

Or and again, like, I think these are things that you learn when you are building it yourself. Is that okay? How many samples does it take? What are the terms within manufacturer? How many of the samples are you paying out of pocket? Or how many do they do because you're placing an X order with them. So there is a beauty in going through that process because then you know for next time what to ask for. You make these mistakes and you go, you know what? Next time in my contract and saying, if this isn't followed, I'm not paying for the sample. You're comping the sample and I need a replacement sample. So again, I feel like when you work with a partner, for instance, and you're just like the creator, you don't see those mishaps or you don't even know really how to deal with them, because that platform is going to deal with it, which I think are like life lessons of negotiating and working with people just in general, figuring out how to come to a reasonable term that makes sense for both you and them. Because at the end of the day, both parties need to be happy to have a long term relationship that makes sense because they want us as a partner, because we're their customer and we need them because we know how to cut and sew. So there is an art to the negotiation and then kind of when you get burned, you just have to figure out a way to make sure you don't get burned again.

Add to that I think just being for advice for people who are going to go into this, I think just being very thorough and very clear with what you want. As long as you're just like you have everything what you want with your knowledge base at the time, being very communicative of that. Nothing can be gray area when working with manufacturers. It all has to be very written out, very in plain text, like what you want and if you've done all that, that's kind of like you've done your due diligence.

Yeah, I think that's a huge benefit that creators could have, which is the fact that they know that you have a brand and a personal brand and this is a partnership. This is not just me trying to be a customer and trying to do a run and I might never come back. Whereas they see that, hey, this is something that we're going to build over time and there's the opportunity to make this super long term. I wanted to ask another question, but I'll pass it to Blaine.

Yeah. One thing I was just going to add in there for any of our listeners who are thinking about sourcing, one tip that one of my friends who does a bunch of sourcing always says when you're meeting with your manufacturers, there's like a hack. You want to get their phone number and you want to maybe even send them a WhatsApp like what you're up to during the day kind of build that relationship with them. So that way when you're doing a production run and you might be able to be like, hey, can you just take me down to the production line and show me what's going on? Because you're at that friend sort of level with them and that can kind of prevent these sort of really big mistakes. Like you were saying, if you get an entire shipment and they're all done wrong, you're like, oh my God, I thought I specked everything out perfectly and oh my God, who asked for these ruffles? What are these doing here? So just these sort of hacks are definitely really good when you're going through production to have at the top of your top of your head.

And I think to echo that at the beginning when you're building those relationships, you might not have that friendship or the trust developed yet, but I think something that I've always really tried to do is even when they make a mistake, it's not like they're intentionally out to burn you. It doesn't make sense as a business for them to try to burn me because they want my business. So I do try to always lead with kindness and empathy. We are all humans. At the end of the day we make mistakes. So when you lead with that kind of attitude you find that people are willing to do favors for you. So whether it's like getting a rush on something or getting a photo before it's fully done is always super helpful. And again, you are working with human beings so why not try to check in on their lives too? Not just like the day to day business stuff.

So just how you had that evolution in the production, in the designing phases, how switching gears over to the marketing, how has the marketing also evolved? In the beginning, I assume you were announcing the launch of the brand and everything but now that it's a much more formal company it's established we know we're doing this for a long term. What does the marketing team look like now? Is this still entirely based off of your audience or do you have a marketing team there doing how has it evolved over time?

Yeah, at the beginning it was all just me promoting. We still don't have a full on marketing team. Our creative team is kind of our creative marketing team and we have a marketing agency that helps us with obviously all of our paid stuff. But how it's evolved is that it was really just me making content and promoting the product at the beginning but now we have people again who love the brand and promote it on their own. We do have a marketing agency that we run targeted ads and all of our paid ad campaigns and the brand itself has its own social channels that we're doing marketing on Instagram, on TikTok as I'm sure you've seen, we've done big long form videos which are a huge source of marketing as well. So it's evolved from just being me sitting in front of a camera, being like, look at my product, to a lot more people involved.

And I think we've made an effort to do that even before Allegra used to one, we didn't have budget for models. So obviously Allegra was going to shoot and be the model like she was on our e commerce page. She was the was, you know, the editorial face of the campaigns as well. And even that's changed now to the point know, we don't want it to just be allegra space everywhere and people are buying it because it's allegro. The brand is establishing its own look and you see that when we're building our uniforms, we're casting models, we're casting talent. It is really honing in on the uncle look which is obviously heavily inspired with Allegra and our taste. Well Allegra's taste of course, but we do try to like it doesn't need to be Allegra's face on every single campaign anymore. The product is now kind of speaking.

For itself, and I think that's really smart to do as you guys continue to scale, right? Because then what you're able to do is you're able to grow allegra is able to focus in on what she's best at and creating her type of content, building her audience. That's always going to be a funnel back into the brand. And on the brand side, maybe there's people who love the clothes, love the content, and maybe they're not into allegra specific type of content, but they're like, oh, my God, these clothes. The content's amazing. The brand is it's actually you're able to diversify strategies and build out these own two things where they're not so dependent on you. And like you're saying, you're able to bring in other content partners, other creative partners, and grow this as a brand that anyone can represent and be the face of and share. And it's not just like, oh, this is just about allegra right, totally.

Yeah, that's exactly it. We actually had this conversation today. We were just talking about our kind of, like, our TikTok strategy, and right now I'm kind of like, running TikTok or whatever, but the brand is so different than me. The brand personality is so different than my own personality. So it needs to have its own identity. It can't be me commenting because then it just ends up being me, right. So it is a whole other personality on its own. And I love when people are like, I love the uncle content, and they're like, but who are you? I'm like I love it.

So how does that community play a part? How is it different to be able to evolve a brand off the back of the community? How do you leverage that versus, say, starting a brand without having that initial audience or community that actually cares and is here for a reason?

Sorry, can you ask the question again? I just totally blanked out. I got a calendar notification.

Oh, good. How do you leverage the community to continue to build your brand? How does the community shape what you're doing tomorrow? What you're dropping on the next season? What's the engagement with the community like?

So, again, we get them involved. I still do Vlogs. I still let people into my life, and they've been with a lot of them have been with me for, like, ten years, which is an insane amount of time to just be with someone. Like, these people are like, they saw me when I was, like, 18, and now I'm 29. And it's like, that part of your life is such a massive shift in who you are as a person. And a lot of those people have grown with us and with me. And they were there at the launch of Gladregs and then the closing of Gladregs and then the opening of uncle. And they feel very involved, as they should be, because the reason why we can continue to do uncle is because of them and because of their support.

And we just try to get them involved in it as much as possible. We really treat our customers the same way some brands treat influencers or treat whatever they get to be involved. And I think that they are very aware that the brand cares about them.

Yeah, and I think something that at the beginning, especially, I was the one talking to people on emails, allegro is the one talking to people on DMs. So I feel like they think they know that they're talking to a real human. And there's certain names that we recognize now that I feel like I know them just because they've been shopping with us or I've talked to them on emails and then they come to the pop up and be like, oh, that order issue, you were talking to me. Making the experience very personal and reminding that there's people on the other side of the brand. Even as the team has grown, we make sure that people know who's on the team, who are you talking to? And it makes them feel very acknowledged and we take their feedback very seriously. So if there's order issues or fit issues, we ask more questions like, what was it about this that you didn't like? Was it the fit? Was it the fabric? And we take that information back and we really do try to make reiterations. I mean, even before this last collection, there was a pair of pants that we changed up a few times based off of the feedback the team, the community would give us. So it was the Bloomers and we did a few edits of it just based off of the inseam was too long, it's too loose on the hips, it's too tight on the waist.

And I think when they see that we've listened to them, they feel even more involved and want to come back. So it's beneficial for us because why don't we get a loyal customer? But we are also improving our product and regardless of the marketing play, it's just a win win for both. They're getting a better product and we're getting really great, genuine feedback, for sure.

I mean, I think you're getting Nike like loyalty for ten years, customer retention. So I think that's why I wanted to ask, you think the community is so important and it shows there. It's very hard for a regular brand that is not led by a creator to have a ten year retention at such early stage. So as we're coming up towards the end here, I just want to know what's next? What is the vision for Uncle Studios? What is the goal? Or are you there now?

I think no, we have a lot of goals. We would love to open up a flagship store at some point. A place where our community can really come together and get together and connect and read the books and do all these things that we talk about online. We'd love to get into some more retailers as well, so that more people across the world can actually try on clothes, because that is a big thing with clothing. People need to try it on, and that can be very difficult with direct to consumers. So getting into wholesale and just growing the brand, growing the community, everything that an entrepreneur wants to do, those are our goals. Growth, but also with that growth staying.

Very.

Small in terms of everyone who is a part of the community feeling appreciated and feeling like they're still part of it, no matter how big the community gets.

Yeah, I think anytime anyone asks us, we always say happy and healthy. I think in today's economy, especially in tech, or even in the creator industry, you see growth at 500%, 300%. And I think it's amazing, it's remarkable, but is it sustainable? And I think for us, the slow burn is always more important. And we want to get our footing right as managers, we want to make the footing right in terms of our product. And again, we don't want to lose sight of why we started at this. And I think with immense growth, you might kind of get lost in the noise. And for us, it's always going to be important to come back to making sure we have a good work environment. Our community, who's supporting us with their hard earned dollars are happy with our product.

And we're building clothes that do echo that original feeling, which is like your favorite piece. You put it on, you feel so good, you feel so much like yourself. And we hope that when someone goes to grab that piece, it's an uncle piece.

Awesome.

Well, thank you guys so much for coming on. We learned a bunch about uncle, how you guys started the business, where you guys are going, and excited to watch the growth as you guys continue to grow.

Thank you for having us.

So where can people keep up with the YouTube, the Instagram, the TikTok, and uncle itself?

Okay, well, my platforms across the board are allegor Shaw at Allegra Shaw. And then uncle across the board is at Uncle X Studios, TikTok, Instagram, that's kind of where you'll see everything you'll get to keep up with the brand. And if you're in Toronto, we are doing a pop up the first weekend of November. So you will see all of that on our Socials. I don't know when this is airing, but yeah, thought I'd throw that out there.

Okay, well, we had a blast. And thank you for coming on.

Thank you so much. This is great.

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