Welcome to the National Council For Hypnotherapy Podcast, where we dive into the fascinating world of hypnosis, lifting the lid on hypnotherapy, sharing insights and tips for change as we chat. So sit back, relax, and enjoy all the wonderful possibilities of hypnotherapy. My name is Tracey Grist, and I will be your host today. So, I'm here with Sarah Arris, who is a Quest Cognitive Hypnotherapist, and we're going to learn about her private practice. She's been in private practice since 2016, and specialises with anxiety and other things that connect to anxiety. So, Sarah, welcome. Hi. My first question will be, what made you choose to become a hypnotherapy practitioner?

Well, it it's it's a long story, but I I will try and keep it short because I've had hypnotherapy in my life forever, really, because my dad was a GP. Uh-huh. And then his first job was a GP. His boss was, obviously, a GP, but he used therapy in his practice. So my dad used it for for things like, pain management, relaxation, that sort of thing. So we grew up as children. We just thought it was completely normal that we knew how to do a body scan and to relax our muscles and all of that kind of thing. My mom was a nurse and she used it as well because, obviously, she learned it from my dad.

So it was always present. And then I got to a stage in my forties where I was really scared of something. So I was I really like skiing, and I've been skiing for a really long time. But I was getting to the stage when when it was really foggy. Yes. Sleep terrified. And I found myself one day on a chairlift really crying and just, like, tears and Oh. Stop.

And and I thought, this is ridiculous. I need to do something about this. So I had a friend who's working as a hypnotherapist. And so I said, can I come along and and have a chat with you? Yeah. And I went along to her, and I remember sitting there with my eyes closed after we'd had a bit of a chat, and she said, I'll just close your eyes. And all I I just remember her saying slowly, slowly down, down, down the mountain. I can still hear her voice. She was German.

So they heard her accent. And I and I remember thinking, what's going on here? I can I could open my eyes if I wanted to? This is this this isn't doing anything. Yeah. But then, of course, a few months later, I only had one session. And a few months later, when I went on holiday again

Yeah.

Out one morning, and it was snowy and foggy. And all I could say was in my head was down, down, down. Yeah. And I just remember laughing. I was skiing along, and it was snowing, and I was laughing. And I was thinking, I am so lucky. And I thought I have got to be able to do this for other people. Oh.

And that's what made me start searching for the right school.

Yeah. Lovely. Lovely. So you you trained with Quest. So what what is cognitive hypnotherapy, and how is that different from other hypnotherapy?

Yeah. So so cognitive hypnotherapy, Quest cognitive hypnotherapy is is really a framework. It allows the therapist to treat each client as a complete individual, to be able to listen to them, to work out what's going on for them, where their issue has come from. And it's very conversational in many ways. We use something called word weaving. So you we we do write recordings that we give to the the client, but I tend to give them so that they listen to them in between sessions. During sessions, it's quite integrative as a therapy. So we have lots of things in our toolbox that we can bring in to help each individual client.

But we we also use it in the session just chatting. So so you might not even realize that we're just dropping a little suggestion. So saying to someone, oh, well, that's really interesting, but, you know, as time goes on, you might find yourself beginning to notice that you feel a little bit more calm in situations like this. And so you've you've got lot you're approaching it from lots of different angles to help them begin to have a an overview of their life and a deeper understanding of of the choices that they have, really.

Yeah. So NCH what what would the structure of a session look like with you?

I would start my my first session is a bit longer. It's about an hour and a half. And it's really important to create rapport. It's really important to to help that person feel comfortable because everyone who comes you know, I work with people who are feeling really anxious and and so they walk in thinking, oh my goodness. What was

my thing?

And so to be able to make them feel comfortable, relaxed, help them feel that they can trust me is the first thing and one of the most important things. But then, idea what's going on for them, looking for patterns of behavior, and so on, Looking at what their lifestyle is like, and also looking at, well, how would you like to feel? If we could imagine a you in the future, what would that person be doing? What would they believe about themselves? What would they be able to do and feel? We look at how they feel in their body and in their mind. And that in itself is enough to help that person's mind begin to notice patterns of behavior and begin to think, oh, yeah. I would I would actually like to feel like this. That would be much nicer. So so that's the that's the first session. And after that, I write a word for them based on what they've told me. So that will include, you know, I'm talking to them.

So I'm talking about their talking about their experiences, names of their name, people they might have spoken to me about their pets. And they come back after a couple of weeks, and we talk about what changes have you noticed.

Okay.

Based on that, we we might do some sort of ed psych that help them to Because a lot of people who have the symptoms and anxiety, for example, they they're really frightened. They don't know what's going on. Why is my heart beating out of my chest? Why am I sweaty? Why are my muscles twitching? And so to help them understand and for them to be able to ask as many questions as they like is just so important. So we might do that. We might do some coping techniques, breath techniques, visualizations, calming techniques. And we're we're working on that sort of thing. And each time they come back with noticing the changes, the changes. And when I feel that they're they're they're ready, and that's based on conversational calibration with them, but also outcome measures, we use GAD7, PHQ9 and Schwenwebs to measure anxiety, mood and well-being.

Once those are a bit steadier, then we will dig a bit deeper and look at

Those are those forms, aren't they, that we look at to see out of 10, how we might feel and notice how how we're improving to reflect on?

Yeah. And we don't use that to diagnose anything at all. We don't really excuse me. We don't work with labels. We work with the person in front of us. How are you feeling today? Have you felt over the last couple of weeks? And then it's really just it's more of an evidential process for them to because if I said to you, how were you feeling Tuesday morning, 3 weeks ago?

Yeah.

I can't I can't remember how I was feeling. I don't even know where I was. So it it helps over time. You begin to see, a sort of a a process of change happening, and that's really helpful for them.

Yeah. I think you mentioned something about the body response, the physical response to anxiety. And I think people, well, from what I see, people presume anxiety is mental, that there's a mental response and anxiety is what you're feeling in your head. So when people get that feeling, that's a physical sensation, I think we're generally unprepared for it to be so real and so physical. And how do you work with the physical symptoms of anxiety? What do you say to people? How do you work with people? I know everyone's

different. Well, I think knowledge is power. And so if they know that our nervous system is scanning our environment all the time and it's looking for potential threat because we're survivors. That's why the human race has been so successful. And if it sees a threat in the moment, well, it takes action straight away. But sometimes that threat is not real. So it may well be that we're looking into the future and thinking, oh, what if this happens? What if that happens? And because our brain doesn't know the difference between an imagined future and a present reality, we're actually feeling the feelings that we would feel if if someone bursts into our room in a threatening manner, for example. We also, perhaps, in this moment, are matching with something that's happened in the past.

So we might have a sort of a red flag event in the past that was really difficult or dangerous or challenging, And our brain has stored that with a red flag going, oh, gosh. This is a really dangerous thing, so I'm gonna look for that. And if it pops up in my everyday, I'm going to react. And I let I talk about the release of adrenaline and cortisol, how that makes your heartbeat more quickly, how you tense your muscles. And so we talk about the what is actually happening. But then we talk about how what can we do about this? So for example, we can do a body scan. We can gradually release our muscles, soften our muscles. People are amazed at how tight they are and they think they haven't even realized.

Our breath, often we when we're anxious, we're either holding our breath or we're about to get as much oxygen in our system. So if we can do some breath techniques, and everyone who comes to me, I say, so what breath techniques do you use? And they all say, oh, I do the box breath.

Yeah. I don't

really like the box breath. There's loads of ones that they're just so much better than that. So it's lovely to teach a few that they have a toolbox with all of these techniques that can help them physically, and they can choose which one is appropriate at any time.

Yeah. Because I think there's some scientific research, isn't there, that the longer we breathe out, the more we relax, and the quicker we breathe in. NCH? The quicker we breathe out like that, the more we speed our heartbeat up. So we can actually

No. You beat you were right the first way around. Ah. When we breathe when we breathe in, any in breath slightly raises our heart rate, and a long, slow out breath will reduce our heart rate. So if we get the ideal is to be if you count 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, that's your ideal sort of rate for an outbreak. Obviously, if you're really anxious, you won't be able to do that. People watching this and thinking, are you mad? I'm not gonna be able to count to breathe like that. I'm like so so it's just a process of learning and knowing it's alright.

If you can only go on 2, that's fine. Because over time, your your stress hormones in your system will come down, and it will be easier to have a NCH, long, slow out breath from your belly. People also worry too much about the in breath. And if you forget about the in breath, that doesn't really matter because you're definitely going to breathe in. You've been breathing in all your life. Just concentrate on your out breath. That's long, slow out breath. And you breathe in and just run.

I I remember going

to see, I think it was a massage therapist, and I was in my early twenties. And she was like, can you breathe properly? And I couldn't breathe properly because I'd spent so much of my younger time holding my tummy in. Oh, yeah. Just like, breathe in. Be be slim. I don't know how I just sort of disconnected my body moving with my breath just because I was, like, breathing.

Yeah. And if you think of that, you're not just holding your tummy in. Your shoulders are up and your tense all over, and you're worried. And so it's people to help people connect with their bodies. Yeah. It's so important. We I think when we're suffering from things like anxiety and depression and all sorts of other things, we disconnect because we we go into protection. We remove ourself from all the things that we've enjoyed.

And so many people that come to me say, oh, yeah, I used to go dancing and I used to go down the pub with my friends, but I don't do any of that anymore because I'm too anxious. And actually, that's what we want is for them to reconnect, to connect to their bodies, connect to their breath, connect to the things that they love. Yeah. That gives them the release of the hormones that help them help their nervous system to understand, actually, we're alright. We're safe. If you're not safe, then anxiety is a very good thing because you want to jump out of the way of that car.

Yeah. And I think it's it's that ideally, isn't it, to my mind, that, like, it's better when when we start to feel that anxiety creeping up to go and see someone rather than when we're in the throes. If we think, oh, I'm a little bit more anxious than I was yesterday or the week before. I do think prevention is really helpful from a practitioner point of view and having that awareness.

Yes. I I agree. And it's it's not scary. It's, you know, the people that you're going to come and see understand that this is a new thing for you. Most people that come to see me never been to any sort of therapy before, and they are a bit nervous. And every sing any practitioner worth their salt will do their best to make you feel completely comfortable and give you space and time.

Yeah. And I do believe, and I don't know that if you if you feel the same, but like any relationship, we need to get on with our therapist and we need to feel safe and feel comfortable. And if we don't, it's okay to say, this isn't working for me, and to go with somebody new, or go with somebody different. Because whilst you and I are trained in working with somebody to have them feel safe and meet a client's needs, actually, there might be that, like, oh, they look like my favorite auntie, or look like the evil maths teacher. And no matter what we do, we're not ever going to change that perception. And actually, it's okay. It's okay to say this this way of working isn't for me.

Oh, absolutely. I really agree with you. I I I've done quite a lot of work on TikTok, working with, and doing lives and people coming and saying one of the things that people ask is, what do I do because my therapist is not working, and I'm I don't know how to tell them. And I learned a lot from those conversations just on TikTok, bizarrely, whoever the who whoever would think that you'd be on TikTok. But I always say to my clients now I mean, obviously, I have my initial phone sort of chat just to make sure, are we the right people to to work together? But on their first session, I always say, you know, this is a this is teamwork. And if you feel that this is not what you thought it was, if it's not your cup of tea, if if you're not getting what you were hoping to get from the sessions, please talk to me. It's absolutely fine. You're never going to offend me, never going to hurt my feelings.

All I want is for you to feel better. And if that means that I'm a stepping stone to help you find someone who's more your cup of tea than I am, then I'm really happy to do that because you're the person that matters. I don't poke my finger.

What about you? You? Oh, doesn't it? And you want, to, you know, I I feel that I want to say, if you can't say you're not getting anywhere with your therapist to your therapist, Do you get another therapist to talk about your therapist?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that tells you something, doesn't it? If you can't even say to your therapist if you can't say to your therapist this that I'm not

going to

go in these sessions, then that's not the right therapist for you.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And And

it doesn't mean that the therapist is is rubbish. As you say, it the therapist could just look like, you know, aunt auntie Betty who was really mean to you. So

Exactly. Exactly. And and no matter what, you know, but it's it's listening to our inner guide, isn't it? And it's listening to and what you were saying, you know, about integrating back into your body. If you're denying your discomfort with your therapist, are you integrating back in to what your feelings are saying?

Yeah. Because it I think maybe in today's society, everyone wants to be perfect. We want to be it's like we would need to be happy all the time. And we're not happy all the time. We're not comfortable all the time. We all go in and out of different emotions and feelings and moods, and that's okay. And if we can begin to understand that and be with our body and go, oh, I'm feeling a bit wobbly this morning. That's probably because blah blah blah.

But do you know what? I'm gonna be kind to myself today, and I'm oh, I'm gonna tell my therapist about this because this is interesting, and we can work out what I can do to help me. You know? That's Yeah.

And I think you hit on something. You know, sometimes our feelings are proportional to the experience. And they are going to be uncomfortable. They are going to be all of the range of emotions that we have. And if it's proportional, then do we accept and go, okay, this is proportional. I'm allowed to feel absolutely terrified if I've been chased by a dog. Like, going, That's okay. That's okay.

It's absolutely alright. And and, for example, things like grief, For many people, they have the if someone dies, they they they have all the process and the funeral, And then and then they obviously continue to grieve for as long as they need to to grieve. It's probably always there. But you get to a place where maybe you don't feel you can talk to the people around you because some of the people around you will think, oh, well, that's done now. I would just all get on with our lives. And a therapist gives gives a client that space to be a person who's not emotionally invested in the situation, but can be a sounding board, can be a support. So it's not always about there being anything wrong with you. You can be having a completely appropriate response, but you just need some support coming through that period of your life.

And that's alright. There's so much pressure, isn't there, particularly with grief that you've got to do it in a particular way. Like, you've got a clock ticking for your feelings. Right? You should be done by now. And I

What's wrong with you? Where does that pressure come from?

It's it's awful, isn't it? And I think the the sense of our job being about helping people to understand that it is alright to feel. Yeah. We're NCH human beings. We feel. And those feelings and messages from our nervous system to say, oh my goodness, a dog just chased me down the street and I'm terrified. Or someone that I love has died and I am absolutely devastated. Or I've got exams coming up and I'm really anxious about them. You know, it's it's okay to feel those feelings, but you can you can help yourself to to work through them and to feel better.

Mhmm.

So if you you mentioned that you're on TikTok. I had a little look. They're brilliant. Did you? You love them. They're great.

Do you know what? I have no idea how that happened. I went on it and I and I thought, I'll stop doing this. I'll I'll I'll start. I'll do some videos thinking I'll have, like, 2 likes and, you know, a few people might follow me if I'm lucky. And it just took off. And and I love it. And I used to do lots of lives and stuff. I've kind of calmed it down a bit now because it was getting a bit too much, but I do enjoy it.

You have a really lovely community of real people on TikTok and people who are suffering. And they actually if you can share some some little, you know, techniques, some thoughts on it's okay. You're gonna be alright. This is this too shall pass, that kind of thing. Then people people like that because a lot of people are quite lonely out there and struggling with whatever is going on for them by themselves. Mhmm. And, also, I've I've also worked with quite a few clients who come from TikTok because it's almost like you they try before they buy. They they they see who I am, and they go, oh, actually, no.

I think maybe she's she's someone I can trust. So

And thank goodness you're a qualified therapist out there. There are so many people who are on Tik Tok or social media that don't have the training and don't have the knowledge. So it's lovely that you're stepping forward and, and helping and supporting. I think it's great.

Oh, thank you.

And, maybe we'll put the link underneath so that

we can connect.

What's been your what's been your most enjoyed TikTok to do or that people like? Have you got a tip that you would share now?

Well, I my most popular one is just a little technique that I teach. I teach everyone, and it's so simple. But it is really effective because it works on lots of different levels, and that's got that's got quite a lot of views. So that was what Do you

wanna do it on me? I can

do it on you if you'd

like. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

So okay. So so when you know, I was saying a bit earlier, when people are anxious, very often, you're not present in the moment. You're either way off in the future imagining or you're in the past thinking, if only if only. If you can bring yourself to now by this technique, it can be really helpful. And I say to people, practice it when you don't need it. So just make it part of your day. So you're having a cup of tea in the morning, do it. Because then when you do need it and your brain has gone offline and you're thinking, what's the box, breath? What's the box, breath? Hopefully, you can start and this will be like muscle memory for you.

So we start off with just circle our thumb and finger. Yeah. And this immediately brings your mind to the the physicality of that, the fingerprint world.

Yeah. I'm not gonna you've got matching now, Vanish. Oh

my god. Look. Well, what was that? That was

that's the

universe working in a weird way, isn't it? So we're just we're just circling. And then when we change the nature of our our focus, so we want to soften our gaze and allow allow it to just become a bit daydreamy, a bit unfocused, staring off into the half distance. And the reason we do this is because when our vision is very focused, we're focused on where the danger is coming from. If there's no danger, we can afford to just be

you know, a

bit more chilled. So we're sending the message through our optic nerve that we're safe. We're safe. So we're circling. We're a bit daydreamy, and then in your mind, say something along the lines to yourself of here, I'm safe. I'm now. I'm here, I'm safe. I'm now.

Just keep doing that for a bit and then you might become aware that maybe your muscles are quite tight. So it may well be that you notice, like, oh, my jaw, my teeth are plugged together, my shoulders are up there. Just just work your way down. Just soften and wiggle. Let everything go. And then you might find that you have the need to go and sigh or yawn. Because often we hold our breath, as we were saying earlier, often our breathing is very shallow and here. If we can just do a nice long out breath, that sigh,

and

just be in this place, in this moment as long as you need. And that's it, really. Just keep doing that.

It's very peaceful. Very peaceful. Yeah. I can feel all my muscles melting.

Yeah. It's good. It's Yeah. Because I think you start with this very simple thing, which a lot of people already do as a self soothing action. And then you're just from here, changing your vision, changing your muscle tone, changing your breath, affirming in your mind, it's alright. I'm here. I'm gonna be okay. This will pass.

Yeah. You're talking to yourself, you're working on lots of different levels. So if you forget 1 or 2, that's alright. Because as you relax more and begin to feel safer and more present, your mind will come back online and you'll go, oh, yeah. I'm supposed to be softening my muscles, aren't I?

Stop. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, no. It's alright. Be kind to yourself.

Oh, it's nice. And just that movement. So so do you call that an anchor? I would call that an anchor then.

My official tech, wording is this is my thumb finger technique.

Very complicated.

Also known as that thingy that you do.

You know, that But

I suppose it I was yeah. So I suppose it is an anchor. You could call it an anchor.

Yeah. So we practice that in the peaceful times. And then when when we're we start to feel the tension, we can remember it easy. More we practice. Yeah.

And and and don't leave it until your when your nervous system starts to send you messages of, oh, what's starting to quicken? Yeah. Go straight for it. Okay. It's right. Actually, where am I? I'm just in my kitchen, and nothing is happening at the moment. I can control what's happening here and now. I can control me. My world might be falling around my ears outside, but there's nothing I can do about that right now.

My job is to just look after me in this moment because if I can be calm and feel safe and present, then I'm gonna be of more use to everyone else, aren't I?

Yeah.

Use to me.

Just let all of that go that way. Yeah.

Yes. Okay.

So do you have any particular do you use that technique yourself? Do you have any particular things that you like to use?

Yeah. I totally live and breathe the work that I do. I thank my lucky stars. I found the Quest Institute, and I trained with Trevor Sylvester and the team there because I use it all the time. I use this is how I live my life. And I, I, I turned up there quite a shy, judgmental person, quite in protection, and I'm I've changed exponentially. I feel I'm calmer. I'm more confident.

I'm happier. And it's because, you know, I use these techniques like this. I use we teach tapping at the at the quest. We teach lots of techniques. And obviously, you go on and do more training as well. But I really believe in this stuff that it's not just about going to see a therapist for however many sessions, and then that's it. You're done. Off you go carry on in the way that you did before.

This is the way of life. It's about being kind to yourself, being in the moment, accepting yourself, learning what's happening when you feel the feelings that your nervous system sends you, and knowing it well, this will pass. I can control it to a certain extent. I have choices in the way I behave.

Yeah. It's it's I think when I don't know. When coming this route and seeing all of these gifts, you know, I just want to share, want to share with my client, like, woah, what about this? This is ex

Yeah. You

have that same, oh, just wanna share.

Yeah. And I think, you know, the fact that I came to it because I experienced it and because I've I've had it all my life, I I know this stuff works. I I know it deep in my bones that this makes a difference. I'm not just someone that turns up at my office and goes, alright. What's the next client next? And I'm on my laptop when they walk in, and I don't look at them. Yeah. Every I have never worked with a client that I didn't really like. All of my clients, they're the most interesting people.

And even the people that have walked in initially and I thought, oh my goodness, you're a bit spiky. This is a bit tricky. I've learned over the years that those people, they're just protecting themselves. They're all up and you end up, by the end of the work together, you're like, oh, really like this person. What a lovely person. Yeah.

And I think it's hard. It's hard not to love somebody and like somebody that you work so intimately with. Particularly when, you know, some people come with that blank armor or the spiky armor, and you watch them soft and, you know, very gently. It's, I don't know.

It's wonderful. We're we're so privileged, aren't we? Yeah. To to be able to spend our days doing this, being such interesting people who are just a bit stuck for NCH. But when when you see them, you know, leave your practice for the last time, and they're different people, they hold themselves differently. There's a light shining. It it's the best job in the world. It really is.

I just I think I think yeah. We're we're so lucky. So is there anything that you'd like to be doing in the future? Is there anything that you so you're where are you in private practice? Are you?

I I work a lot online. I'd probably do 80% of my work online. So I see people from all over the world. I do have private rooms in Wheat Hampstead in Hertfordshire, which is very lovely, really nice and, and a lovely calm space. Yeah. So yeah. What was the I've I've gone off on a point. What what As

Being your future self, what would you be doing in the future? What how do you do you want to carry on in the same practice? Practice? Would you like to do something different? No. I've thought a lot about this because, obviously, we're doing the

TikTok and I was quite successful. And TikTok wanted me to, you know, sell stuff. TikTok wanted me to, you know, sell stuff and get subscribers and all of that. And I said to them, I I don't want to do that. I want this is free. I'm not I don't wanna earn money off TikTok. And I've realized that I don't want to go and be some big global, like I was never gonna be a global superstar. Let's let's I'm not a Taylor Swift.

Let's let's be honest about this, but I've come to the conclusion that I'm really happy doing what I do. I'm really happy seeing the people that come to me. I have a lovely work life balance. And if I can make a difference to those people and keep doing that for as long as I'm able, then my husband says to me, when are you gonna retire? And I and I said, well, I'm I'm never gonna retire. I just I love it. I'm NCH I'm gonna if if I can keep going, if I have the mental capacity, then, I'm just gonna keep going until it doesn't feel right anymore. So I don't have any, you know, massive ambitions. I just love what I do NCH, and you never know what might turn up.

But for now, I'm happy.

And that's the magic answer, isn't it? You know, I I think there's so much pressure to perform or to do or to go down this route. Whereas, actually, I think it's so important to be comfortable in now. And I'm here. This is lovely. And then we sort of have that pressure from society of, do you want to take it to next ever next level up into something that you don't want to be doing?

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I know. Yeah. Because you see people that, yeah, they can do TED Talks and they they they they do all these things. And and I just thought one day, I don't want to do that. I like sitting in my room, seeing my clients and talking about the how we can help them with their anxiety.

And and, actually, that was such a relief to just let go of that that whole thing and go, I am in my dream. You know, this is my future self living the living the dream. And I'm just really happy with that. So yeah.

I think it's that thing, isn't it, where contemptment isn't seen as glamorous? And I wish it were, and I wish it were like, you know, that happiness of going, oh, they've ticked all their boxes. They're happy. That's

which is

all this social media pressure of fear of missing out, and you should do this and you should do that. I think being there in your core, I'm doing what I love. Oh, isn't that the greatest gift?

It really is. And I, I mean, I know that I've got so much more to learn, and I love learning. I love going on new courses. But, actually, what I'm doing right now, it it can be improved and built upon by new learning that I'm always on the lookout for. But the the core of it makes me very happy. So, yeah. Oh,

lovely. So I I think that's a good place to do you have anything else that you'd like to bring? I think it's just been lovely chatting.

No. I've really enjoyed chatting to you. No. I mean, I haven't really got anything else more more to say other than, you know, if if you're watching this and you're thinking or, you know, maybe either, I I don't feel quite right and I'm thinking maybe I ought to see someone I'm not I'm not sure, then just just talk talk to a few different therapists and and and take action. Do that thing. See someone because it will be helpful. And also, if you're watching this and thinking, oh, I fancy. I fancy doing that, then look into it.

Research. Find the right place for you to study because it's amazing to do this job, to run your own practice. I I can do what I like. So it's all very lovely. Yeah.

It's such, I think it's such a wonderful profession. And I think that, maybe if somebody is looking to do therapy, no issue is too small. Some people think, oh, I can't come with that. I can't be, like, oh, I'm just frightened of something, or I'm a little bit anxious. No. Just come.

Oh, absolutely. Do you know? I I had a client come to me who who said, oh, it's just it's so lovely to be able to speak with you, and you listen to what I'm saying because I've been to see someone else. And this person had said that their trauma wasn't big enough, so they weren't going to work with them. And I just made me feel really angry inside because how dare you judge what someone else has been through in their life. You know, we all have trauma. Trauma is is a is different for every single individual, and it's it's always going to be some event that has felt threatening in our lives. It's always going to be the the sort of the core wound, the source of how we're feeling today. And so, yeah, what whatever you're feeling, if it doesn't feel right, then come and talk to someone because it will make a difference.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, thank you ever so much, Sarah. I've really enjoyed It's been really lovely.

Oh, thank you. I've loved chatting to you. Thank you so much for having me on.

Thank you. Alright.

Bye.