Yeah. Thanks, Blaine. It's great to be here. Guava Family we make products for parents, gear for new parents to help kind of get out and get a recharge. Having kids is a fantastic experience, but it's also really challenging and sometimes you really kind of need to get out and get some fresh air. And oftentimes parents used to do that before they had kids, and we make gear to enable them to take their little ones out and have those experiences still once they have the kids. My background is product design. I started designing products at a product design agency and then eventually in the action sports industry, and I left that with the goal to start a product company. And that's guava.

So how did you land on Guava in terms of like, family products, baby products, all that sort of stuff? What was the inspo there?

Yeah, it's kind of crazy because I didn't have kids I was dating at the time, not even engaged or married while I was dating. My now wife. And again I wanted to start a product company. I wanted to build a product company rather than just design products. And so I was kind of looking for what other industry would be a little bit bigger than the industry I was in. I was in the axisports industry, specifically the wakeboarding category. So it's a fairly small industry relative to total action sports and relatively small industry in general. And so I was looking for a bigger industry.

I was engineer in the action sports industry in a fantastic place to be in kind of your early to mid 20s because that's all I thought about anyway. And I found that I do better, I think about products better when my mind share is in that just kind of recreationally as well. And so at some point I knew I was going to kind of grow up a little bit and I was looking for the next kind of phase of life where I would be spending a lot of mind share. And so I started looking at the baby industry because also at the same time there was a lot of attention on recalls. Let's see, in 2006, 2007, Mattel had a big recall because of lead paint and toys and so all of a sudden there's this intense kind of focus on product quality, material safety, stuff like that. So I thought maybe there's something about this industry where we can build a product, brand a product company out of that. And after looking at the industry for a long time, talking to parents, we realized that traveling with kids is a fantastic memory often, but it's a really difficult experience. And so if we could make that a little bit easier for parents, we thought there was a lot of value there.

So started looking at different gear that parents use for traveling and figured out how to innovate on those.

Yeah, I mean super exciting because I remember when I was growing up we did a whole bunch of travel as a family and I'm sure it was not fun for my parents and I think kind of to your point and what you guys are building, you guys are really solving a problem with your product. You're tackling that problem in terms of hey, travel and getting around with kids is great but it's difficult. And that's even coming through when for anyone who's like listening, if you go to the website you see you guys are really taking almost like an outdoorsy explorative sort of narrative on your landing page and combining the functionality and the form of your products into that sort of exploratory sort of lifestyle. So why don't you tell me a little bit about what was that process like in terms of discovery and what were the first, I guess, products that you did build and how did you tackle solving those problems?

Yeah, well, we weren't sure what product we were going to do for it. I feel like we had identified a really interesting industry and products generally that probably could use some innovation even though there were some there obviously were companies that were making really neat things and innovating from a product standpoint. But we spent a lot of time talking to parents, figuring out kind of what I'd say take me through from finding out you were pregnant to kind of the first two years of baby's life. What were the peaks, what were the valleys and memories? And oftentimes travel came up. It's either a really fantastic memory or actually a really difficult memory because it was so hard. So that's like a huge signal right there. At the same time, my girlfriend at the time, my wife, had just come back from a trip and this is when we were kind of noodling on what we were going to work on in this industry. And she said, you know what, you need to solve traveling for parents.

I saw so many families in the airport and it just looks so stressful and so while I don't think we've solved the experience and made it super easy, I think in some way we've helped and enabled people to get out and get a recharge a little bit easier. Specifically, we started with the travel crib category because the portable cribs hadn't really changed a lot when we started looking this in 2000. When I started looking at about 2008, they had gotten much safer but functionally. The experience was still really kind of cumbersome and difficult and heavy and I was coming from outside the industry, a totally different background, so I didn't really look at what was out there. Beyond that, it was difficult. I didn't take it apart and figure out how to make it a little bit better. We just started with something from scratch that if we were going to design something, here's how we would do it.

Awesome. And then, yeah, let's go through that design sort of exercise in terms of getting things stood up. So what were the first solutions that you came up with? What were the first prototypes? How did you get them manufactured, how did you get them funded? What was the inception like?

Yeah, it was fairly unique because I got to rely a lot on my kind of past background when I was in the actual sports industry. The company I worked for was a company called Liquid Force that also had a kite boarding division at the and so I had been working on kind of kiteboarding kites, which I don't know if you're familiar with those, but the leading edge of those is a really cool, rigid inflatable technology. And so the brilliant thing about them is you can have this huge kite that's got this rigid leading edge when it's set up and you could dump the air out of it and it can pack down into a little backpack. And it seemed crazy but I was like, why don't we just make the frame out of that, get it really small. And so I had this kind of great relationship with this supply chain before starting Guava because we were making those. And so as soon as I kind of started spinning this idea around in my head, sent a few drawings to my suppliers, I went over to Asia and I spent a bunch of time in Asia, kind of prototyping iterating on that. And the first product we came out with was a product called the Go Crib, which had a rigid inflatable frame that you could set up to the size of kind of a standard portable Crib, but packed down into a little backpack. And it was much lighter.

About a third the weight of a standard portable crib. Third to a little under half the weight, depending on the crib. And so, yeah, I was fortunate enough to be able to rely on kind of those past relationships, past supply chain, and I didn't have kids at the time, so I was able to put my head down and spend a lot of time back and forth between here and the suppliers. Again, I'm still fantastic friends with and make it happen. Sweet.

And why don't you tell me about let's talk about launching it and now getting your product that you've kind of built and prototyped into the hands of prospective parents and kids, right? How many prototypes did you generate of your MVP and then how did you fund it? All of that sort of stuff.

Yeah, MVP is a tricky concept for physical products, especially in the baby industry. So what we did was we kind of went to MVP, brought it to a trade show and then said, hey, the goal was can we convince this was 2010. Yeah, probably 2010. So this is really before kind of ecommerce was really accessible and a thing especially for a product that people wanted to kind of touch and feel and understand. Right? And so our go to market plan was to go to the trade shows, try and find boutique retailers and hopefully a big retailer to touch it and feel it and like it and order a few and put it in their shop. It was very traditional. And so our MVP was basically, let's get it to the point where it looks beautiful, we can make sure that it's certified from federal standard point of view and then get a little booth at a trade show and see if we can convince someone to give us an order form and a credit card number. And once we got to that, we felt confident that and we did that.

And because it was so different, it was so distinct, it got a decent amount of interest. And we signed up a bunch of shops. And so we said, okay, we feel comfortable now kind of finishing this up, finalizing a bunch of tooling that was originally just kind of machine prototypes and starting a production run, a pre production production run. Again, it was very traditional. It was wholesale business. It was not direct, definitely.

And I'm sure that was valuable to get that physical product in the hands of the people in the trade show and everything to get that sort of product validation before scaling up, obviously, 2008. The infrastructure to be able to execute an ecommerce or a direct business was a lot different than it is now.

Little funky.

Just a little bit. So the next question I have in terms of rolling out the product was like, let's talk about funding it. How big was that first PO? How big was the first purchase order and how did you guys fund it?

Yeah, again, I think we were very fortunate because of these relationships that I had with these suppliers who kind of in my past role, had brought a lot of business to them. They knew I was starting something on my own, and they basically said, how can we help? And biggest way they could help was to fund inventory for us. And so I made a big ask. I just said, do you mind shipping me a container and I'll pay you after I sell it? And he said, sure, no problem. So our first production was actually financed by our supplier. And that really helped us. I don't know how we would have paid for it at the time because we didn't really I was putting my own time into this. Wasn't paying myself.

Certainly couldn't pay for a full container to come over. And she kind of got us kicked off.

That's sweet.

Yeah.

That's awesome. Way to hear it.

Sorry.

Yeah, because getting that cash conversion cycle started is a little bit tricky. But if you've got the first container and you've got some margin to make and go get the second one, that'll get the flywheel going. So my next question is yeah. Why don't you walk me also through the first couple of years of the business? Right. So you've got your first couple of POS, you get some customer feedback starting to come back. Just talk to me about what the trajectory of the business looked like in those first couple of years once there was clear product demand and market for it.

Yeah, the first product we came out with was a great product to start with because it was so different. So it was easy to get attention at a trade show. It was easy to get kind of attention in kind of the baby media landscape just because it was so unique. But it wasn't like a mass successful product. We did have a couple of early wins where this was probably about maybe three or four months after we started shipping our first product. Just kind of on a whim, we decided, hey, let's go to the Outdoor Retailer Show because we thought maybe there's, like, a camping customer that might like this a lot. Maybe there's some camping retail shops. The dream being like, Rei or something like that, right? And so we very last minute, I got a six by eight booth, like up in the upstairs wing corner convention center, and we set up this little booth and randomly a backpack designer for Rei walked by and he was about to have a bait.

And so it caught his eye. He said, hey, I'm going to put you in touch with our buyer. I think this is fantastic. A couple of weeks later, we got a call from the buyer and said, hey, come up to Washington. We want to chat with you guys. This is October. And for about 45 minutes we chatted with him. And then it kind of became clear towards the end of that meeting that he clearly wanted to buy it and put it in some stores.

He was just betting us to make sure that we were like a real thing and could actually deliver, I think. And he said, all right, well, I want to put it in 95 stores for Christmas. Remember, this is October and I'm the one that kind of handled production. My kind of business partner at the time was more on the sales side of it, and my mind goes, there's no way, there's no way we can pull that off. And without missing a beat, he goes, yeah, no problem. We can make it happen. We basically called other retailers and said, Look, I'm really sorry we can't fulfill the POS again. They're worth that.

And but it was something we were willing to do just to try and see if we could work with Rei because the volume because the credibility at that time, we were a young company and we needed credibility. If people were going to buy something, put their baby in, we needed credibility. So we pushed all our inventory to Rei and started selling 90 Reis. And that grew over time and that was a great win for us. But what we realized was discovery wasn't happening at Rei. Discovery was happening elsewhere, whether it was on the web or some article somewhere or some kind of nascent word of mouth that was starting to happen and the sales channel was Rei. And what we realized is, in addition to that, we were kind of ordering all this inventory. We got these POS from Rai.

We're also signing up trying to sign up other shops. And as an afterthought, we were selling on our website, and we would stock out on our website pretty quickly. So effectively what we were doing is we were pushing our inventory down our lowest margin channel and stocking out of our highest margin channel really quickly. And the margins, again, with Rei were not great because the pricing wasn't great. They were a fantastic partner for us, but they still had a lot of weight, so they could push us down on price a little bit. And so we kind of realized we're either going to just kind of be on this uphill, climb, this treadmill, trying to make retail work where the margins are thin, or we can take a risk and see if we can grow the direct business. That again at the time was kind of an afterthought, but showed kind of signs of working because it was the quickest channel to stock out. And so after about a year, we told Rei that we had open POS with them.

We said, we can't fulfill these, we're really sorry, we're really grateful that you've been able to help us get to this point. And they were super gracious about it. And instead we said we kind of went all in on direct and it worked great. I mean, the margins were instantly better. Obviously that allowed us to put more into we just started at that point we were able to kind of experiment with kind of direct response on Facebook and Google. Again, it was pretty early on Google at that time, excuse me, on Facebook advertising. And so that shift was basically out of necessity. It was either just kind of inch along with really thin margins or try something different.

And direct was the try something different. And that works great.

Right, so the business that we're working on right now, it's in the SaaS space, but we launched it on kind of a third party marketplace where like you said, the margins aren't great, but the distribution is massive, right? So you're able to build buzz. People can find it there. And that buzz, it's almost invaluable to a nascent business that's starting to grow because then you've kind of like locked in in your community and then at a certain time you're like, if I do this forever, my business isn't going to survive. But in the beginning, it's so hard to generate those sales and generate that trust and that credibility. And I think the key is understanding where that line is. So you can kind of, like you said, make an exit gracefully and then understand, hey, if we're going to be in here for the long term, we need to be selling through the channels and growing the business, where it's going to put money into the business and give us fuel to continue to grow. So in our case, we launched on a marketplace, did about three or four months there. If we stayed on there forever, we'd go bankrupt.

But it was able to generate just enough buzz and momentum for us to then exclusively go Direct. So that's awesome to see that you were able to do that because I think a lot of brands now they're so torn between Direct and retail is all the rage these days in terms of where to go and where to sell. So I think also just having that perspective of, hey, we can pick and choose our spots based on what's best for the business, right? It's not like we won because we've got rei and now we're a full blown wholesale business. You got to pick and choose your spot. So walk me through after you made that transition to Direct, right, what were some of the new challenges that you had to take on? Obviously you've got a product that's physically a little bit bigger to ship and deliver on, so why don't you just walk me through the obviously you've got some margin that you're able to be able to play with because you're not having to sell through a retailer. But just tell me and characterize the early stages of your Direct motion, how it went, what some of the challenges were and how you kind of overcame those and started to scale things up.

Yeah, well, Direct wasn't there was no obvious way to do it easily. In 2013, we were on our own installation of kind of an ecommerce platform that we were hosting on a remote server somewhere, fortunately. And we still have a really good friend who's a fantastic developer and kind of manages at that point managed kind of that installation for us and set it up and kind of integrated all our systems to kind of approach the functionality of kind of a fully integrated kind of front end all the way through third party warehouse kind of linked system. But figuring out how to do that was a huge challenge because we weren't really set up to do that. We had our own kind of ERP and we were entering our own orders. A lot of the stuff we were actually filling ourselves. So figuring out how to just be an online business from an operational standpoint was pretty different from kind of just a real traditional wholesale business. That was certainly probably the first challenge.

And then once we're kind of all in on Direct, we don't have these other kind of recurring kind of POS coming from partners. We have to figure out how do we continue to drive discovery and traffic? And so trying to figure out how Facebook ads worked, trying to figure out how Google ads worked, I think we tried to figure out actually we didn't realize we shouldn't be a seller on Amazon until right before we actually made the transition. Direct, one of our retailers, listened to our product on Amazon, and we looked at we're like, Wait a minute. We should own this product on Amazon, not one of our retailers. And so we kind of scrambled to become a brand. I don't even know if Amazon brand registry was a thing at that point. I don't know why that happened. But it was all just, like, totally new thinking that we weren't really used to.

So we just had to kind of dig in and try things and iterate.

And learn and tell me about the landscape at the time, because, like you said, when you're looking at 2013, selling a stroller online wasn't a whole bunch of baby products that were kind of doing that sort of stuff. So what was the competitive landscape like? What was the response from buyers? Walk me through that.

Yeah, so we were selling Travel Cribs, though we actually didn't release the stroller until end of 2021, beginning of 2022. So we're still in travel crip category. And we were kind of transitioning between our first product, which I described earlier, and what is now our new Travel Crip product line, which is the Lotus wait, sorry. I forgot what the question was. Say that again.

The question was more about once you guys had made that transition, just characterize the landscape of Direct at that time for this sort of category.

I don't know if there was any pure Direct to consumer baby gear companies at the time. If there were, there were one or two. We were really unique in doing this. So we kind of saw that as a little bit of a superpower, to be honest, because we could kind of sit outside of the kind of existing baby gear industry, and none of our competitors really knew much about us, what our volumes were, if we were selling at trade shows and we were going wholesale. And very quickly, what you're doing, if it becomes kind of a material amount of volume or revenue, that's easy for competitors to figure out. Right? But if we're all on just this Direct channel that no one really understands, especially a lot of our competitors still aren't selling Direct, then that was a great way to kind of grow in stealth. So that was a fantastic kind of asset for us. And again, at the time, because we were Direct, we had this very different margin structure.

So we could spend a lot to acquire a customer online relative to our competitors. And so we had a bigger megaphone online. We could outmarket on these kind of channels that we were slowly but surely figuring out. We could have a bigger presence on them than a lot of our competitors. So when parents find out they're expecting, they become like deep researchers. This is a new phase of life. They've never done it before. They spend a lot of time figuring out what it is they need.

And at the time, that was going to stores and talking to their friends. But right when we made this transition, that was also looking online and doing kind of deep online research. And so we could show it because our margin structure was so different, we could show up better than our competitors could because we were tuned to fit that layer of kind of margin. We could pay more to acquire customer than our competitors did. So that was a fantastic asset for us at the time.

And in terms of content strategy, right, like, what was converting? Were you guys just running Google Ads to a landing page targeting certain keywords, and people are like, oh, this is a cool thing, I'm going to buy it. Or were you doing maybe more advanced stuff where you're running traffic to longer form blog, educational sort of content that's part of a conversion funnel?

No, it was fairly simple. There's several obvious searches for when a parent is looking for these kind of products. And it was making sure that we were, if not one of the first ones that they saw when they started that process early on, we were very unsophisticated. We were just running to our home page. There was no concept of a funnel. We brought out an agency to kind of help us with that because we realized that we were not experts at it, nor were we going to be experts at it. It was so complicated so quickly that we wanted to bring people on that were experts at it. And so that's when we started to be more sophisticated about landing pages and top of funnel, middle funnel, bottom of funnel, all that kind of stuff.

But when we were doing it ourselves, when we first started, we had no idea what we were doing. And it was so easy to spend a ton of money yeah. Results and not see anything.

All right, so my next question is, when did you guys start innovating new product lines? Right? Because I think that's a question that a lot of founders have as they're building businesses. It's like, I've got this core hero product. It's doing well, but I know if I start another product, there's a whole big opportunity that we can tap into. So how far along were you in the business in terms of the Crib and what was the next product, why did you launch it? And what was the kind of green light moment where you're like, now is the time to launch another product to our offering?

Yeah, that's a really tricky I mean, baked into that question is, where do you spend your time? What do you focus on? Right. That's a really hard thing to figure out. One of our kind of operating principles, kind of core principles, was, at least initially, for the first couple of product. Lines, product categories. And it's still the case now because, again, we're not that many product categories. We're very focused is we want to make sure we're actually solving a real problem in a distinct and demonstrably better way, especially demonstrably online. And so figuring out what that next problem to solve was. Honestly the thing that kind of took us the longest and I think also one of our kind of core principles is making sure we can grow with good enough margins to have the patience to do that and the ability to make mistakes while we're trying to figure out what that is.

It took us a long time to kind of think through what is the next product category now. We came out with accessories and kind of product line extensions on the Lotus. And the Lotus isn't just that one product, but again, I don't know what the total SKU count is, but that product category is probably ten SKUs now or something like that. So it's not crazy. We didn't extend it that much, but we did spend a lot of time figuring out what's next, what's next, what's next? So we came up with all sorts of ideas. But if it didn't kind of fit those couple of core principles and then you could layer on the stuff that makes sense for a direct business. Like it has to get small enough to ship in that canyon in your margin and it has to have a high enough AOV to make kind of direct response advertising work. And that kind of advertising also for us is a little tricky because it's not an impulse buy.

So it's not like we're selling cosmetics or a T shirt where you can convince someone to buy it on the first or second kind of interaction. Again, these are deeply researched products and so it's hard to kind of get the Attribution right? It is for kind of maybe 20% of our customers, but most of them look at it, think about it, then maybe register it and then someone else buys it, right? So the Attribution is really messy. So to be able to have the margin to kind of fit that model means it has to be IOV, it needs to be relatively cheap to ship. Fortunately, our kind of core product, the whole idea was it's something big and useful but gets small when you're not using it. And that kind of gets us into those lower kind of shipping tiers to enable that. And so we kind of spun around on what the next product category is for a really long time. And in hindsight it's super obvious, but I actually hurt my back putting it was a double jogging stroller, but a jogging stroller in the back of our car when we're thinking about this product category. I finally had kids unlike the first product category and I was like, man, it's been staring us in the face the whole time.

We need to make a running stroller that's smaller and much more portable, collapses smaller so it doesn't take up the whole back of an SUV and kind of fits into your lifestyle much better. But we've never designed a stroller before, so that took us we actually designed the Rome that insight came or that decision to really invest our time in that category was probably 2015. We spent about five years designing and iterating on the Rome to make sure it was a product that we were really happy with and again, actually solved a problem in a better way and was really distinct. I think that's a much well, it's much more fun for us, for me, from a kind of product design standpoint, because what I don't want to do is we have a lot of traffic. And I talked to a lot of other friends in the industry or Advisor, and they're like, look, you have all this traffic. Just put your brand on another product that these customers need. And I don't want to be that kind of broad kind of marketplace of commodities. I'd rather spend our time designing really distinct products that actually solve a real problem and parents get a lot of value out of.

And getting to that point takes some time.

Yeah. So to that point so you guys were named one of Time magazine's best Innovations or Best Inventions of 2022. So why don't you tell me about the research and the process of this stroller? Because I guess the concept is it folds up, but not in a typical way. I remember the strollers that I used when I was a kid. They kind of like folded up like an umbrella or something, but we're still big. But this one kind of folds in half and it's a lot more portable, and the wheels kind of come in right into that negative space. Yeah. Why don't you tell me about that design process, the research that went into it, and then how you were able to roll it out and find that success.

Yeah, we actually were inspired by golf caddies, I think that golf cart I don't know what they're called because I don't play golf. It's hilarious. Like, we didn't play golf, but we saw these golf carriers where you can carry your clubs that fold down in all three dimensions and they get really small. And so we went to the local golf shop and bought a bunch of them. And conversation there was hilarious because he was really curious why we were buying so many and wondered where we played and started asking about our handicap. And we're just making stuff up, really. We were going to take it back to our office and just tear it all apart and figure it out. But they were brilliantly designed.

How do you get something that can carry around a golf club, a set of golf clubs, but then pack down into this tiny little corner of the back of a trunk. Right? And so that was kind of where we started. And then there's all sorts of product constraints that required it to be a slightly different design than that but that enabled us to kind of figure out over time how to design something that not only kind of folded flat like you're saying but also brought the wheels in. And there was a couple of other products on the market that were similar but they hadn't really figured out how you can make it stable and durable in an altering environment. And that was kind of the real kind of key to it was if we were going to make a running altering running stroller it had to perform just as well as all the other strollers on the market. How do we get this kind of geometry that folds in this way to also be really stable and rugged? And the product that we're shipping now is very different than the initial concepts we have. We've got prototypes in the office kind of from each stage we went through 57 different iterations or something like that which is why it took us so long to kind of get to where we are now. I joke with my partners that if we were doing design in house for another company we would have been fired long ago because it sometimes takes a long time.

I love that we've got this business that's kind of operating with the appropriate margins so that we can take that time and be patient to get something out that we think is great. We were really excited about it. It was very gratifying to get that kind of times call out and then to get a red dot award on it.

Yeah, that is wild.

Especially on a product we never designed before.

Yeah, I mean that's wild in terms of how much goes into it. Like 57 product turns on a physical product is no joke.

It's no Dyson vacuum like 1000 prototypes or whatever. But if you picked apart all the different iterations and prototypes on each kind of component yeah, it's a lot and it takes a long time and help.

Me understand what the product actually does. So I see it's a stroller and you can push it around outside but when you actually fold it up is it still functional as like a baby seat or like no.

The problem it is solving is all other kind of all terrain running strollers are really big when you fold them and so when you put them in the back of you need an SUV to put them in the back. Unless you want to take the wheels off and then maybe you can fit it in the back of a truck but it takes up all the space in the back of a car. But that's not how parents live their life. There's so much stuff that goes along with taking your baby somewhere that if you could get some of that trunk space back and have something that's smaller and less cumbersome when it's folded up, it makes everything so much easier. And so that was kind of the problem that we were solving.

Got you. And then so why don't you talk to me about your roadmap from here, right? You've launched this new product. It's clearly doing really well from a design perspective. You guys are getting all these accolades. Just tell me a little bit more about the business now and the strategy that we kind of know how you guys think about building products that solve real problems. Really intentional design cycles until you get it right. So, yeah, what's next for you guys?

Yeah, well, we're really focused on kind of just building awareness now for the stroller category. Again, we have more credibility when we launched the stroller than obviously did when we launched our first product, but it still is a very different category and we're the newcomer in that category. And so word of mouth in our industry is incredibly powerful. And so once you get into that cycle, it's a really strong kind of competitive advantage. The challenge is when you're a newcomer coming into a category where that word of mouth already exists for other products, you not only have to convince someone to buy your product, but you have to convince them to go against the recommendation of their friend because you're new and their friend doesn't know about you. The friend that has already bought a stroller that's not yours, they don't know about you. And so it just takes some time to kind of break through that kind of already existing word of mouth that the competitors have. And so we're really focused on doing that from kind of all different directions.

Direct response. We've ramped our kind of marketing spend. So our returns are a little lower on the stroller category than we're normally comfortable with on our kind of crib category, just because we're in kind of a building awareness building phase rather than kind of little more evergreen phase like we are in the crib category PR, which we traditionally have never really done much PR prior to the stroller category. But again, we're in kind of awareness phase and that's really helpful. Social campaigns we're experimenting with. So that's kind of the early growth phase where we're trying to bend that curve, that kind of get further up that adoption curve with the stroller.

Yeah. I always found the baby category super interesting because it's like a niche category, but there's all these unique characteristics about it, about the buying, like how it's done, the price points, the size to ship. But at the same time, you've also got all these baked in advantages because like you said, it's going to be hard in the beginning to break through. But once you do break through, then you guys are the default recommendation and parent communities are so tight knit, you've got strong word of mouth and there's all these different things. So I just think it's really fascinating to think about how you're building products and launching products and what the go to market for each unique product that you build looks like. Well, very cool. So, as we kind of wrap up here, Scott, where can our listeners find out more about you, connect with you, or learn more about the brand? If you want to give your socials.

A shout out, sure Guavafamily.com at Guava Family on Instagram. Guava family on Facebook. Yeah, we're direct, so the main channels.

All right, well, thanks for coming on the show.

Yeah, I really appreciate it. Blaine that's fun. Thanks.

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