Hi. This is Paul Zellizer, and welcome to the Awarepreneurs podcast. On this show, we dive deep into wisdom from some of the world's leading social entrepreneurs. Our goal is to help increase your positive impact, your profitability, and your quality of life. Before we get into today's topic, I have one request. If you could hit subscribe and do a review on your favorite podcast app, It helps more people hear the message of these amazing guests that give us their time. So please go hit subscribe and do a review. And today, I am thrilled to introduce you to Megan Young Gamble, and our topic is the intersection of beauty, packaging, and sustainability.

Let me tell you a little bit about Meghan. Meghan is a packaging and product management consultant with over 10 years of experience turning ideas into standout consumer products for top beauty, wellness, and personal care brands. Known as the Project ExecutionHER, I like that. That's awesome, Megan. Megan transforms your company's pain points into custom solutions, manages your project from start to finish, and brings a 360 degree perspective on packaging and product development. Megan Young Gamble, welcome to the show.

Paul, thank you so much for having me, and hello, Awarepreneur listeners. Glad to be here with you all today.

We we got some things to talk about. And and one of the things I wanted to check-in with you, Megan, we're gonna get into the sustainability part, but but why the beauty industry? Like, what's what's the sense of connection there for you?

Well, it's a funny story, to be honest. I did not go to school for beauty. I did not think that I would even be working in the beauty industry. My background was supposed to take me with a chemistry degree into pharmacy. And so, unfortunately, I did not go into pharmacy.

Linear pharmacy to beauty. Yeah. That makes total sense.

I know. Right? But it's it's been quite some detours, to be honest, Paul, in reference of how I got into the beauty industry. So since I decided not to go to pharmacy, go to pharmacy school, pursue that as a career and pursue in pharmacology research, it really had me go back to the drawing board. This was in 2009, graduated college, and this is also the time where we had the recession going on at that time. And full circle, we're back in and out again. But nevertheless, at that time, I was really assessing how I'm going to really use my undergrad degree in chemistry. And so thanks to some mentors and a lot of detours and such, at that time, my boyfriend, who's now my husband, referred me to work at Enterprise Rent A Car, went through various management programs, transitioning the company and hit a plateau of how I could really get to that point. And so I ended up becoming certified as a project management professional, PMP.

And from there, after I earned my PMP, I applied for a job at a local health and beauty company based in Atlanta. And ironically it was in the building right next door to where I was working.

So I

was like, you know what? This is a sign that I'm supposed, this is supposed to be for me. Well, when I went for the interview, for the beauty company, did 2 interviews hired on the spot from the CEO and did not realize all the various semantics and technicalities there were in the beauty space until I immersed myself in there working as a project manager. So talking about eyes wide open, it was just that. And so as I really immersed myself as a project manager for a beauty company, became senior project manager, went up the ranks in corporate. I decided to be bold and go independent January 23rd, 2020. Then we all know what happened in March, 2020.

You have an impeccable sense of timing, Megan.

Man, I tell you, I tell you it is, but you know what? Sometimes the timing is divine and it's really meant and it really was the divine calling for me in transparency, because it was a pivotal moment where I really sat down and was like, what am I going to do? What did I enjoy? What was I really good at? And how can I leverage those skills to be independent? And so when Kobe was given all of us time to really sit down, reflect and such, And also, unfortunately, losing loved ones at that time. That really gave me some clarity to realize, you know what? What I did from corporate working in health and beauty, incorporating my project management experience and my love of packaging that I developed working for the beauty company, that was my calling and that was my destination. And so that led me to creating my own firm, Gil Level Consulting, GLC, where we're a boutique operations management company that helps create, develop, and manage packaging and new product launches for intentional brands in the health, beauty, wellness space. So quite a detour to get here, but it ultimately led me to my destination, here in the beauty space.

And to help our list by the way, I started my business in 2008, and and recession is, maybe, not a full spectrum. Anybody who wasn't trying to start a business, it was the meltdown. Let's call it a meltdown. Right? It was Yeah. It was wild. It was wild. Yeah. To help our listeners understand sustainability and why this industry is so important to be intentional around the design and packaging and the products themselves.

Can you give us a sense, like, what's the scale of the beauty and wellness? It it's not a minor industry, So

as So as a whole, the packaging industry is over a $1,000,000,000,000 business. And when you think about everything that we as consumers purchase from our toothbrush all the way to our iPhones, cell phones, to even our water bottles, all of that is packaging. And then when you start to look more specifically in the different areas of packaging, you have pharmaceutical packaging, automotive packaging, beauty packaging, and all the other areas of packaging, you start to get really niche specific. And so what me working in the beauty space, beauty packaging alone is gonna be hitting almost $500,000,000,000 by 2025. So this is a big industry just for beauty packaging. And the cosmetic industry is on track for almost hitting the $1,000,000,000,000 in the next couple of years by 2027. So, no, this is no little industry. Everything we think of from applying body care products like our lotions, to shaving creams, to fragrance, colognes, essential oils, Those aspects really fall under beauty and it's used every day in our everyday lives as consumers.

So no beauty is not a small industry, let alone packaging. It is something that's really our way of living here in the US and even in other countries too, of how we think about the products, how we use them, the packaging, and then, of course, sustainability, which we're gonna get into as well.

That's where we're going next. I was just thinking I can be a klutz sometimes. So I use this wonderful beard oil. Right? If you haven't seen me, listeners, I have some people like to call it a trail runner beard. Right?

Yeah. It's a phenomenal groom beard, ladies and gentlemen.

So much. You're very kind. But but if I don't use something on it, it's quite scratchy, and it's itchy, especially here in the summer. And now we're, you know, it was a 102 degrees yesterday. Right? So and I knocked over my beard oil, and it's by. It's not cheap. So I knocked it over and spilled half the bottle this morning as I was rushing to get ready. It's like, oh, that's what happens at your rush, Paul.

Anyway, it got me, oh, yeah. Here's another you know? Okay. I have to go get some more quickly than I thought. And I was thinking of our interview, right, in the beard oil. And, you know, I try to buy stuff that, you know, is recyclable, and it comes in a certain kind of packaging. There's not any plastic. It's in cardboard that's recyclable. You know? And I was just thinking, oh, you know, that's not 5 years ago, I was using more traditional shaving cream and a metal can that has aerosols in it, which is hard to recycle and think, you know, I was literally just thinking, oh, here's a moment.

This is the kind of thing that Megan spends a lot of time, and I'm an interviewer, so I'll probably tell that story of me being a Klutz. Right? But but what the the thing about things that, again, as I was less close to this conversation. Like, as long as I have a beard or even when I don't, I'm gonna shave or, like, do I I need it, like, once a month. I basically need to get a little new bottle of this. Right? And and same if somebody's using eye makeup or, you know, something on their lips. Right? It's not something you buy once, and then don't buy again 10 years or 20 years. Like, this is something we buy pretty frequently. And if the packaging isn't done well, that adds up, like, massive amount of stuff.

Is that fair

to say? Oh, yes. It is, Paul. And there's various elements that we have to consider when we are developing the products as well. So I'm gonna just use the example of like your beard oil, for example. Right? So whoever the brand is, tell me the name of the brand again.

Oh, gosh. It's it's I think it's something Amish. They're playing off of it's an Amish recipe. I can't remember the name. I could see the package. I'll put a link in the show notes. Something almost Amish, something like that.

Okay. So with the company, they whoever is the actual brand, they had to first think about what is this beard all gonna be suited for. Right. So those who have, you know, have beards, they take care of it. It is part of their aesthetic and it may also be religious background as well. So they're incorporating those elements. So they first have to think about who is the consumer to then have the tone of voice. How do we convey the messaging, the key ingredients that are in that are contained in the oil for it to resonate with that target audience? So then think about how are we going to design the packaging for it to resonate with our brand owners and our consumers.

So you may have some that have the actual beard itself showcasing to show this is specifically for It's on the label. A 100%. Yeah. And see, I didn't even know the brand, but I could already tell you what's possibly on there because they wanna make sure that they are quickly attracting the right consumer. They're not gonna target somebody that doesn't have a beard. They want you to know right off the right off hand. This is specifically for those who have beards. So then understanding those key ingredients in the formula to then the packaging.

How do you evacuate the product from the packaging for it to be a optimal consumer experience? Unfortunately, you knocked yours over, Paul. So that's just you rushing. But, you know, from a functionality standpoint and how the product evacuates, whether it's in a dropper bottle

And this is a dropper bottle. Exactly. Exact see, you know your stuff. I could tell already.

Absolutely. So I know that because we understand the functionality of it, we understand the composition of the formulas and how it's gonna be the optimal experience for the consumer. And so tying all of those elements in that then leads to how do we think about sustainability? Yeah. And so as part of that, like with the Amish culture and the brand owners for this brand, they are thinking about sustainability based upon possibly sourcing some of the key ingredients from their farms, from their actual land, to then use in their formulas. That is part of their sustainability messaging. And some of it may also go into sustainable packaging. And so for this case, you more than likely have a glass bottle that may be amber color or a tinted color bottle that is a dropper. The dropper is glass.

Some case can be plastic, and the bulb may be silicone or MBR. And so based upon that, it helps with the evacuating the product into the pipette for you to apply into onto your fingertips or in the palm of your hands for you to quickly apply to your beard for a good dispersion. So we're thinking about all of these elements. But from a sustainability standpoint, you have to look at it for the packaging. So the glass bottle we talked about, and I'm gonna talk about some misconceptions here shortly, but then also sustainable products. And so a lot of times people ask me, well, what's the definition of sustainability? And I tell them, newsflash, there is no one definition of sustainability. And that's because one, sustainability may mean something different to the brand to resonate with their consumer. Secondly, you have to look at it not just in one specific excuse me, one whole or broad spectrum sustainability.

You really have to look at it at its core and breaking it down into pillars. So whether that's sustainable operations, whether that's sustainable products and ingredients, or sustainable packaging. And then being able to decipher how sustainability resonates with your brand. And so in this case, Paul, for your beard oil, I would say the company for your beard oil was thinking about sustainable packaging, utilizing glass based upon the dropper bottle, and they possibly were thinking about sustainable ingredients for the ingredients and the key ingredients utilized in the beard oil for you to have this lush feel, smooth, have a smooth hair follicles for your, for your beer. So it's not itchy or irritating or anything. And it keeps you nice and polished. So we're gonna dive into this a little bit more, but I wanted to share that using your example of the product you utilize and looking at some of the key attributes as well.

The listeners, thank you. I'm a Klutz, and thank you. Now we got to hear Meghan's awesome knowledge applied in a granular way. So so I love that you got into this, and and you already started to do this, Meghan. But I wanted to mirror back what you said. I agree there's not any, like, industry wide that I'm aware of. And that it's true across sectors. Like, yeah, food, there's organic, but that can mean different things in different places.

Yeah. Certainly, in the beauty products, like, what sustainability means. I'm not aware of too much in the realm of, like, consensus agreement. So one of the questions I have for you, Megan, is as somebody who's been thinking is, what's your definition of sustainability? But I actually wanna nuance that even more and say, in 2 different buckets, 1 in the product side, what does sustainability mean to Megan? And then 1 in the packaging side, what does sustainability mean there to you?

Oh, such a good question. And I think about this question quite a bit. And so I'm gonna start with my company because my company, we've helped produce products in packaging to get to the products in packaging respectfully. So there'll be 3 definitions. So for company, as an operations management firm, we focus on sustainability from an operational standpoint. So meaning the manufacturers we, we recommend for our clients looking at efficiency. So process improvement ties in ties in approach for continuous improvement. So we're focusing on sustainability from an operational standpoint.

So we can help with increasing the bottom line for our consumers and our clients and also help with producing efficiency. So that's high level of what that means for the company and how in our way of working. Now from a sustainable packaging standpoint, one of the misconceptions is that plastic is bad. We're gonna talk about it. Okay? But from a sustainable packaging standpoint, my definition of it is something that is able to be repurposed going back into the circular economy to be reproduced. So you have plastic bottles that are now being reutilized and repurposed to create fibers for our clothing. Tennis shoes are being recreated to reproduce reproduction of beauty packaging. So you have post consumer recycled content, PCR that's now being utilized in the packaging and more.

So anything that's able to go back into the circular economy and be reproduced. Now over time, yes, some of that will start to lose its structural integrity. So there is a lifespan to it. But overall as a whole, if it can go back into circular economy to be reproduced, to be repurposed and reused, that is what I think of for sustainable packaging, and that's all materials. Now from a sustainable product standpoint or respectfully sustainable beauty, what I deem as sustainable beauty is something that a product or formulation that is intentional about the ingredients that is able to sustain where it's going to be sold. So what I mean by that is when you potentially bought your beard oil, you possibly bought it in store or possibly at a local farmer's market. If it was something that only had a lifespan of 30 days, this company would have to produce this very frequently just to keep up with the demand and also being able to have it because of the shorter timeframe of being, being available to consumers. They have to produce a lot more.

But if you think about, like, the preservative system and how formulations are created, I'm no cosmetic scientist guy, so don't hold me to this, but this is just my definition. But being able to have a sustainable product is something that is able to 1, withstand the shelf life or have a longer lifespan. 2, being able to not only think about organic products, cause some organic ingredients do not make the product last longer, but you have to really think about the target audience and where it's going to be sold to, to then determine those key ingredients. But as part of sustainable products, you're also having to think about how is it getting consumed and also in the water stream. And how is that going to be reproduced and cleaned, you know, and everything for that water to be repurposed? So are those ingredients intentional and also something that is not gonna be harmful for us as as going into the water stream. So I know I mentioned a lot, but I wanted to just kind of share it from 3 pillars. 1 from an operational standpoint that I mentioned with my company, one from a sustainable packaging perspective, and then a little bit from the sustainable product perspective as well. So that's what I would say for my definition.

Super helpful. So given your more than a decade, in this space, Megan, A question for we we have sort of 2 buckets of listeners. We're pretty unique on this show that we have a much higher than average for most social entrepreneur podcast of folks who are already up and running. They have product market fit, and they're looking at scaling, but they're they're doing quite well. More than 50% of our audience, probably about 50 5 to 60% of our audience. So the first question is for them. If I am a business owner in the beauty space, and I already have something, but I wanna maybe I've thought a little bit about sustainability, but I wanna lean into that more. I wanna be more sustainable.

What are some of the and and then the next question is somebody who's about to get started, but hold that thought. Right? Okay. The person has been around for a while and and has some fluency in how they might, you know, have started on that journey, but they wanna they wanna walk further out on that limb. What are some of the things you would encourage that person to be thinking about so they can increase their sustainability? Again, in all the pillars that you just described.

Oh, such a great question. So for those who are the listeners that are listening that are getting ready to scale product owned businesses, first thing I would say is to hire a regulatory specialist. That's number 1. And the reason I highly recommend that is because regulatory specialists and agents are assessing all the regulations and compliance and guidelines, not only for beauty respectfully, but also for packaging and sustainability. So they're having to really immerse themselves into understanding what this full landscape of sustainability, which is such a taboo topic and transparency is, that would be the first step. If you don't have one, I'd be happy to recommend you to mine. I have 2 of them, actually, on East Coast and West Coast to help respectfully. That's the first step.

Secondly, one thing I will another thing I will highly recommend is if you're already working with a packaging manufacturer or supplier, and you are thinking about scaling, especially going into retail spaces, ask your current suppliers and manufacturers, what is their take on sustainability? What are some of the efforts that they are currently doing to really focus around sustainability? One of the misconceptions is that all plastic is bad. That's definitely a misconception. Not all plastic is bad. Plastic is needed in some cases. Look at a lot of our food contents. Right? Look at pharmaceutical goods. Even look at beauty. Look at shampoo, conditioners.

Some of those come in plastic for a reason from a functionality standpoint to not cause injury to the users. So as part of that, ask your manufacturers, what are some of the sustainability efforts that they're starting to work on? And then also the sustainability operations. So carbon emissions to understand if they're carbon neutral, 0 carbon emissions, what that looks like. Do they have the data that you can possibly leverage for your brand to use as showcasing your awareness and efforts around sustainability? Now, if you're starting to work with a contract manufacturer or work going from small batch manufacturing to contract manufacturing, same question. What is your sustainability operations? What are some sustainable ingredients based upon my formula that I would like to reverse engineer? What are some of the trends you're seeing around sustainability, especially with regulations in place? So understanding and really having that open dialogue with your partners is really critical because if they don't understand what your brain represents or where you're trying to go, then how can they best support you? And if they're not able to support you, ask them who do they have in their network that can support you based upon where you're trying to go. So that's the second point. 3rd point is a lot of the brands we work with and really have the opportunity to see scale is some of a lot of them wanna go into retail. Well, news flash, retailers are now having their own specific sustainability requirements for as a whole, operationally, ESG, environmental, social, and governance, also for packaging and products.

So you must look at your, you know, your prospective retailer and understand what their retailer requirements are and what does sustainability mean to them. So you can then convey that to your manufacturers and your suppliers that I mentioned in point 2. So then understand how that rolls up into your operational plan and how you think about sustainability as a whole. So I hit all three pillars from operation packaging and products, but it's really about bringing everybody to the table. You cannot do this in a silo. You cannot do it is not recommended to do this alone. You need to have regulatory and the respect of partners at the table, putting everything out there. So you, you, that way you are intentionally and properly set up to know how you're gonna make the next move as your brand is growing and scaling scaling, focus on sustainability.

Beautiful. So in a moment, I wanna come back and hear about your recommendations to that newer impact entrepreneur in the beauty space. And I also wanna have a conversation. We're entrepreneurs. We gotta talk about ROI. How much does this cost, and what does it mean for profits when you lean into this way of approaching it. Before we do that, I just wanna take a very quick break and hear a word from our sponsor. Are you facing 1 or more important decisions in your impact business? And you'd like an experienced thought partner to develop a plan about how to proceed in the complex times we're living, but you don't feel the need for an extended coaching or consulting contract that's gonna cost you many 1,000 of dollars.

You're looking for an affordable, targeted, and time efficient type of support. Through paulzellizer.com, I offer a strategy session package. These packages are ideal for entrepreneurs who are facing 1 to 3 immediate decisions, like how to increase your positive impact, fine tune your marketing strategies to get more results for less effort, launch a new product or service successfully, or refine your pricing structure so it's both inclusive and provides you with a great quality of life. You can find out more by clicking below, and thank you so much for listening to this podcast. So welcome back, everybody. I am here with Megan Yong gamboll, and we are talking about the intersection of beauty packaging and sustainability. And, Megan, it's so great having you here. Thanks again for being on the show.

Before the break, I was saying, wanna bring your wisdom into like, I'm thinking here in New Mexico. It's a wonderful, wonderful young entrepreneur who's creating a beauty brand that uses traditional New Mexico herbal remedies, locally grown. It's so cool. Yes. I'm gonna get this episode to you. You know who I'm talking about. Super cool young entrepreneur doing awesome stuff. And is a very well developed, you know, business acumen, has corporate experience.

But it the the beauty space being an entrepreneur in the beauty space is new to this person. Right? So what would you say smart, hungry, ambitious, great concept, leveraging the native Hispanic, Latino, herbal traditions, and baking that literally into the beauty prize. Such a great concept. So awesome. And, like, that's a lot to, like, be hungry and new and excited to have a great concept, but this is a lot to make sense of. What would you say to somebody in her shoes who's who's earlier on in her journey? Where where should she start, and what should she prioritize?

Well, first, I wanna say congratulations to any person that has started a business. Best kudos to you all because one, it takes courage to put yourself out there and create something, especially in a very saturated market. So I went and just give you your flowers and praise you for making this change and pursuing a new endeavor. Second thing I would say, same thing for those who are scaling their business, hire a regulatory specialist. I know it may seem that because you're sourcing things from a local place, like in this case, for this brand owner, you're sourcing ingredients locally in New Mexico. You're incorporating it as a cool concept for the product. You have a great marketing story of how you have local sources made in the USA. Great callouts.

At the end of the day, it would be more advantageous for you to hire a regulatory specialist so they can assess your products, also help you determine in how and help you be compliant upfront to help mitigate those risks from a cost standpoint, because that's ROI, on the back end to not make those costly mistakes on the back end. So are you a regulatory specialist upfront. It would do your brand and your business great service to invest into that. The third element I would recommend is you're possibly sourcing your packaging from local manufacturers or companies that already have packaging that is stock. So as part of that, if you are utilizing stock packaging, which is a great option as you're starting out, I highly recommend brands to start off with stock packaging and utilize labels. It's more cost effective. We'll talk about it around a minute. But as part of that, as you're working with the packaging suppliers and procuring stock packaging, start having those conversations with the salespeople.

Start reviewing the packaging specification sheets. Start reviewing the product details. See if any of the packaging contains any post consumer recycled content, 25, 50%. That's great messaging and that's part of the sustainability from packaging standpoint. Also, with some of these manufacturers have stock packaging, some of them are starting to go carbon neutral in some cases. So see if you can pull some of that data from your respective manufacturers. It won't be specific to your packaging exactly, but as a brand or our manufacturers are carbon neutral, that is how you position it from a marketing standpoint, and that's how you can incorporate into your story. And then the last element I would say is be open to evolve.

And the reason I say that's because as we're gonna transition to ROI conversation here shortly, everybody does not start out the gate with sustainable packaging. That's just the reality. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. Sustainable packaging does have more of a premium price to it because of things going back into the circular economy to be reproduced. You have to, go through proper testing, validation, things of that sort. And so there's a cost that comes with that. So be okay to evolve. And what I mean by that is instead of going right out the gate with, you know, beautiful branded packaging that has your brand on it, stick with stock.

You may have to do that for a couple of years, but then update the aesthetics on the labels to then evolve into the printed deco on the bottles or whatever packaging that you're utilizing. So be okay to evolve. You do not have to come out the gate with everything. I know TikTok and Instagram is showcasing all these pretty shiny things, but you don't know what's happening behind the scenes. We don't know everybody's story and how they got there either. So it's hard not to compare in this day and age when everything is digital and at our fingertips. But I'm telling you working in this space, it is not all it's cracked up to be and everything that you see that glitters is not gold. So be okay to evolve and know that your brand will get there in due time.

So those would be my tips for those who are in the startup phase with creation of their products.

Right. Thanks. Great tips, Megan. So let's go into the ROI and some of the financial repercussions of the decision. So let's let's just say, like you said, this is a fairly mature space. Right? I mean, whether it's toothpaste or eye makeup, there's some you can go in any big box store in the US. Right? And you're gonna find toothpaste and eye makeup and various other product. You know? There's somebody who's already doing something, and some of it is made not with a lot of attention to sustainability, and therefore, it's priced at a certain point.

Right? I'm looking at you, Walmart. Right? Like, there's a certain thing that's gonna be typically on a shelf of a big back store like that. Right? So I guess the like, give us a little bit of a sense. You know, what if you're not trying to be the least common the cheapest thing and forget about sustainability, that's not our audience, and zero attention is they're listening to some other show. They're not here. So we don't need to have that. Right. But somebody who, like, leans into it a little bit, somebody who leans into it a middle amount, and somebody leans into it a lot.

What is that what is that do to your costs? Right? And, also, what does that do to your revenue? Like, is there a difference in what the market sees as value if there is a deeper dive into the sustainability, and will people pay a premium for that compared to somebody who only does that a little bit? Is is that a make sense, the question I'm asking?

Yeah. So it's 2 questions in 1. So the first question from, like, a retailer standpoint or wanting to get your products into retail, the biggest thing I tell people from, like, a price standpoint is 1, you have to conduct a competitive analysis. If you have not conducted that, that is the big missed opportunity because you may be over pricing or under pricing your products. So with the competitive analysis, you know, this is something that I require for all of my brands before we even get to work. Because I wanna see how you conducted your own research based upon comparable products. So in that case, I'm gonna just use a vitamin c serum. I see a vitamin c serum.

It's one of my staple products along with hyaluronic acid. Those are my 2 staple products that I use. And then 3rd will be lip gloss. I love some lip gloss. But as part of that, you know, based upon the viscosity or the intended use of how the I want the vitamin c to be applied onto my face. Do I want it as a cream or a liquid, which is a serum? That's 2 different type of packaging that I have to consider. Then I'm thinking about, well, who is my competitors to determine the price point? If I'm if I'm targeting the ordinary brand, great products, the brand, lower price point, then versus if I'm going with Murad, higher price point, premium look, I pay more. So who are my competitors? Right? And I need to understand, you know, how it's a almost a one for one comparison for the products, and then also using that as inspiration for the packaging.

So is this vitamin c a cream that I have to put into a jar that has to be applied? But then I have to think about, I wear nails, guys. And I wear bright bold nails. Paul, you can see them in the video.

They're they're one.

Was part

of that. Nothing like them myself, but I'm in awe of your nails. They're amazing.

Thank you. But as part of a a consumer that wears nails intentionally, wears long nails and colorful nails, I cannot stand when I get products underneath my nails. And that's also thinking about cross contamination. So from a consumer standpoint, you have to know your audience. Not saying that they wear nails all the time, but those are things that you do have to think about where you put products, the vitamin C into a jar for a cream versus a serum that can be pumped out onto the fingertips and then applied. So the competitive analysis is really the starting point to deem and determine who is your competitor to know where you should price yourself at. Do you compare yourself to the ordinary? Great company, great products, affordable. Or do you compare yourself to Murad? Try your price point for premium.

You know, possibly higher levels of l ascorbic acid, vitamin c. So that's the first point. Second thing is packaging. A lot of times we want the dom perion of packaging. But if you are only charging that lower price point like the ordinary, you cannot have direct printed packaging. Look at the ordinary. They have standard bottles for all of their serums with the label that differentiates between all the different products that are in dropper bottles. So you have to think about those things because that those elements add up.

So the packaging, dropper bottle to the label, those are packaging costs that I have to think about. Then you have to think about the price to make product. K? So coordinating the transit of the packaging to the manufacturer or to your headquarters, whoever is doing your manufacturing process, fill in that. Now if you are outsourcing that, you're paying for it on a per unit basis. If you are doing that, you are paying on a time basis. So how much is your time worth? All of those elements roll up into your total cost of goods. What we call as an acronym in the industry, TCOGS, t c o g s. And based upon that, you're looking at what it takes to manufacture, make and feel, packaging.

So the dropper bottle, the label, possibly an overcap. I'll still have to think about how it's gonna get to and from the destination. So possibly a shipper box to ship it to the different facilities that's part of packaging. Then if I wanna go into retail, that is a cost. You are paying for an allocated spot on shelves. You pay for that, guys. They are not giving it to you for free. So that could be a percentage in itself, and that varies with the different retailers.

And that's why it's really important as you're thinking about scaling your brand and go into retail, you have to really think about at that sales meeting, what is the percentage that I would have to allocate for shelf placement? And the rates vary from top shelf to bottom shelf. Think about liquors. When you see them at the bar or actually at the store, higher price point down to lower price point in some cases. Same thing applies for products. So guys, from a return on investment standpoint, you wanna be profitable. Right? At the end of the day, we're all in the business of being able to create a lifestyle for ourselves to generate money, potentially generational wealth, whatever your why is. You're here to make money. That's what business is at the end of the day.

If you're not making money, then this is a hobby. Unfortunately, I have to put it to you that way. And so are you doing this as a hobby or as a business? If you're only breaking even, you would need to reassess where your money is going, how that's being allocated, which you're possibly overspending for. And in some cases, you may not be ready to go into retail. Being frank. And that's okay. Everybody that you see out here is not in retail. And that's okay.

It may take another 2 years for you to get to retail, but you have to have the capital. Because if you wanna go into retail and ex retailer places a purchase order saying, Paul, we wanna place an order of a 100000 units. And the net terms are net 90 after the product comes in, then your business will flow while you're producing a 100000 units or produce buying the packaging, the drop a bottle, the label, you're doing the make and fill at the contract manufacturer. You have to pay for everything to get to and from a to b to c. So you're paying for transportation always around to then shipping it to the final destination. So can your business afloat to run a 100000 units? That could be a big impact on your revenue and the return on your investment as well. If the retailer is a viable fit for you, because not all retailers are a viable fit for all brands. That's a misconception too.

You know? So those are things I just see. And I'm a very transparent guy very transparent guys. That's why I'm just putting it all out there. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it, but I'm sharing that based upon what I see and my experience working in the space and the brands we work with. And at times I tell my brands we focus just on packaging and operations, But I may tell you, you're not ready for retail. I can I can see that from the beginning because of the capital and where your profit margin is and what your SRP is, suggested retail prices? And knowing if you're trying to go into Costco, you're not going that's not going to work based upon the price point and the quantities you have. So those are the hard conversations, but you need people on your team to be honest with you. Because at the end of the day, we don't wanna see any brand lose money or go bankrupt or having to close their business because of that.

Because they've overexert themselves and put a strain on their financial resources. We wanna see you all thrive and be on shelves and thriving and growing and expanding to new stores and in new retailers and then possibly new markets. But if those aspects aren't in place as a foundation, then you're doing yourself a disservice. So those are some of the things I would say, you know, as you're thinking about growing in this space, not just focused on sustainability, but just really revenue and the cost. And I gave high level example of what that can look like to produce a vitamin c serum. But the foundational part, please do your competitive analysis. That would be the starting point so you can know what's the price per ounce, what's the packaging of my competitors. I said I want it to be affordable.

Maybe I need to change that to be assessable. I said I want it to be premium, but maybe I said I want to be I wanna prioritize affordability or prioritize certain elements on the packaging, you know? So that's where you really have to do the deep work to really recognize what your brand represents and operationally packaging and the products so we can then lead into the next stage, which is marketing, branding, and all those elements.

Right. Megan, you were talking about having people on your team. Who would you say are what what kind of brands are a good fit for your business? Who do you work with and what kind of things do you tend to work with them on?

Oh, such a great question. So when I say my team, it really is a team. So a lot of the beauty of my businesses, I get a lot of referrals from my affiliate partners. Those who are contract manufacturers, those who are cosmetic chemists or formulators. They're doing the upstage part where they're creating the formulations, and then they pass them off to me and my company to serve, executing the packaging, starting to do the testing, the validation, the design, and then operational support. And so for us, a good fit for our brand is we have a couple different, ways we work. But the biggest thing is and I'll put a name to it. So because I think we all do better with names for my avatars.

So my main avatar would be Sarah. Sarah is full time entrepreneur. She's already built her business. She transitioned from corporate and is now operating her space full time. She comes to us because now she already has some existing products and is now looking to scale them to potentially go into midscale retailers, boutiques, and also big box stores. Some of her common pain points is that, one, her, she doesn't know if the information on her packaging is compliant. She doesn't think that the product is evacuating properly from her packaging, so she wants to look into updating her packaging. And then she also needs some insight and perspective of what the next stage looks like, thinking about all the different stage gates to not only produce the packaging, but now with her working with the new contract manufacturer, what does that process look like? And how do you think about the return on investment and also the total cost of goods? So she comes to us and we help service her fractional team to support her from the transition from her cosmetic chemist to work on executing the packaging from conception to launch, and then also supporting her from an operational standpoint with all the different stakeholders as part of the life cycle.

So that's our number one audience. So those that were in this one sector of your of listeners, which is brands who are mid scale, looking to scale further. They would be a good fit for us from like a fractional standpoint. And then those that are like the emerging, the startup brands, we call them Nicole. So Nicole is a startup brand who does a lot of DIY. She's already has invested a lot of time and effort to find stock packaging, do a lot of things on her own. She created her products by hand, maybe using intentional ingredients. But some of her common challenges is that as she is trying to grow and scale, she doesn't have the right information on her on her packaging to resonate with her consumers because she received some possible, possible complaints about not knowing all the information or all the ingredients contained in the formula.

She does well with a lot of self paced trainings and courses. She also does really well in group settings. And so she would really thrive on having somebody help advise her on the proper stage case, the proper information that should be on her packaging. And so that aligns with your startup brands, like the brand founder that's based in New Mexico that's sourcing local ingredients. So we will serve them well more so from like a advisory program. We're helping to conduct audits. Because at the end of the day, regardless if you're startup or, an established brand, we wholeheartedly believe in making sure you're compliant first, regardless of where you're going. Because at the end of the day, which where you currently are now, that's not where you always want to be.

You are always wanting to grow and thrive in your business. And so as part of that, from a compliance standpoint, we're looking 2 to 3 years ahead, understanding the trends, understanding what the regulations are saying, understanding what are the changes for packaging. If it is a focus on sustainability, not all brands focused on sustainability and transparency from sustainable packaging to products, but we do ensure that you do focus on sustainable operations. That's the biggest thing for us and that's the core value for us. So those are 2 avatars that really compliment the Awarepreneurs listeners here today from startup, new brand owners to brand owners that are ready to scale.

Startup to scale up, I've heard it called. Yeah. Nice, Megan. So, Megan, you were saying before we hit record, you have some resources for our listeners. Tell us about those.

Absolutely. So if sustainability is something that you are wanting to consider, couple of resources that I would like for you all to research. So first is all the laws that you hear in the respective US differ for each state. And as part of that, we have select states. It's currently 5 states. Excuse me. 6 5th yeah. 5 states that have a that have officially passed what's called extended producer responsibility.

You can go to sustainable packagingcoalition.org to learn more about packaging EPR. And pretty much what this means is who is gonna be responsible for the end of life use of the packaging, and that falls back on the brand owners. So we have 5 states that have actually passed the laws for this new regulation packaging EPR, extended producer responsibility. Furthermore, if you would like to just learn more about sustainability as a whole, the Ellen MacArthur Foundation is a great resource. I visit them quite frequently myself because there's so much evolving around this space and this landscape around sustainability and what this means. And so you'll be able to really deep dive into all the different sustainable organizations as a whole to understand what sustainability is looking like. What are the conversation? What are some of the drivers around sustainability and more? Now, if you're looking to understand more in reference of the beauty space, there's plenty of resources. So in reference of resources, I highly recommend beautymatter.com.

They are a web and excuse me, a digital and also physical publication magazine where they distribute about different things happening in the beauty space. We're seeing a lot of acquisitions and mergers occurring, which can change and alter some of your raw material ingredient suppliers. So those are the conversations and things that you need to gain insight on respectfully in the beauty space, because that could be driving price points. That could be driving raw materials. That could be a transition of certain things. So those insights are golden to know. And I look at that myself to determine my manufacturers and recommendations for clients as well. The other one I would recommend is in reference of packaging, the misconception around plastic is bad.

Everybody has their own thought, but I'm here to tell you and a lot of people in packaging will say this too, not all packaging is bad. It's really about understanding the production and the emissions around it as well. And also if there is any post consumer recycled content, PCR contained in it as well. So from a packaging standpoint, I would also recommend everybody to just do a Google search to understand around the resources I shared with you about single use plastics. We're starting to see regulations come out SB I had to put the actual link, but I can't remember the name here. I forgot it to jot it down. But it's actually talking more specifically about banning single use plastics in the next couple of years. So those little free samples we receive at the hotel, that could possibly be changed.

To even, like, when you go to the stores and you see those little small samples for those impulse buying purchases, that could potentially change. And so even with, like, the Ellen MacArthur Foundation's Sustainable Packaging Coalition, they dive into those elements a lot more to talk about it, but I think it's something helpful for everybody to research and also just start to grasp high level what that means. Because if you're utilizing plastic, it's not all bad, but the size of them may differ in the upcoming years. And so that's important, especially if you're starting to create 1 ounce products, some to 1.5 ounce products, which I see a lot of brands doing. What that means? How does that roll into packaging and EPR? So those would be this the resources I recommend to the audience, Paul, to at least understand around packaging, sustainability, and the beauty space, to help you become more versed in the space as well.

Awesome. And listeners will put links to all that in the show notes. So if you're like, wait, wait, wait. What did you say? Deep breath. It's in the show notes. Like always, I always put in all this stuff in the show notes. Go check there. Megan, I could hang out with you all day, you know, so much, and you're busy and so are our listeners.

So as we start to wind down today, today, if there was something that we didn't get to that you wanna touch on before we say goodbye, or there's something you wanna leave our listeners with as we start to say goodbye? What would that be?

Oh, wait. So I'll say probably 3 things. First thing is hire a regulatory specialist, regardless of what scale of business you're in. I have them on my team. And so please don't think that you have to do this on your own. You really need a team at the table to help you execute properly, be compliant, and help save you money on the back end so you're not having to pay it later downstream. That's the first thing. Second thing I would say is as part of another resource, I do have an industry podcast called Product and Packaging Powerhouse.

So I get the honor to speak with other industry powerhouses from various business sectors that help create, develop, and manage packaging and products. So you get to hear some great conversations with other powerhouses. Add that to your resource list. That will be down in the show notes for you all too, because there's a lot of things happening. And I really wanted to be unapologetic and intentional about share sharing and showcasing other business sectors and why it's critical for product businesses to know, to help you with advancing, ascending, and accelerating your products to market. That's the second point. And the third point I would say is you all are awarepreneurs. So you are aware of the products and the businesses that you are creating.

So keep going, keep thriving, keep pursuing all that you're doing and know that it takes time. You may take a detour to get to that destination, but that is okay. That's part of the journey. And so enjoy the scenic route as you're going through it. You may hit a pothole. I live in Atlanta. We have a lot of potholes here in the streets. You may hit a ditch.

You may have some tumbleweeds. But at the end of the day, enjoy the journey and know that you are aware and you are building out your business as an entrepreneur. And we are all cheering you on from near and afar. So just keep going.

See, I didn't find out till right now that you had a podcast. No wonder you're such an awesome guest. Megan, thank you so much for being on the show today.

Yes. Well, thank you for having me. It's good to be on this side of the table. That's a go.

And if somebody wants to get a hold of you, where should they reach

out? I am very active on LinkedIn. So Megan Megan Young Gamble on LinkedIn. I'll share my LinkedIn, my direct LinkedIn with Paul as well to include in the show notes. That's the best way. So you can get all the insights around my podcast that I launched. We always love launching that. We have a newsletter that we launch as well, and I share a lot of my personal story. I'm very transparent about what I do and my journey into this space and how I'm continuously evolving.

So guys, I'm an entrepreneur too, still evolving and growing. I shared earlier, I've had my business now for three and a half years full time, so there's a lot of things I'm still learning too. But it's a true journey, and it's a true honor to do what I do, and I love what I do.

Megan, thanks again for being on the show.

Thank you, Paul.

So let's let's do what we go do. We find someone awesome. Go tell your friends. Spread the word about Megan's great work. Check out the show notes. So much good stuff there. Go listen to Megan's podcast. Oh my gosh.

I don't know how I didn't know that until now, but go listen to the podcast. Right? And if you've been listening for a while, you know that we love listeners suggest topics and guests. So if you have an idea for a show, go to the Awarepreneurs website, and on our contact page, we have 3 simple guidelines. I try to be super transparent about what we're looking for and how we discern and who we invite on or who we send a polite message. Not quite a fit. That's all on the contact page. Love to hear your ideas, and we've gotten so many over the years. Thank you.

So as we say goodbye, I just wanna say thank you so much for listening. Please take really good care in these intense times, and thank you for all the positive impact that you're working for in our world.