Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, belonging, and societal transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world where everyone not only belongs but thrives? You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo, and share stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive in. Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect, and inspire action together. Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to share your insights or to join me on the show.

So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. And today is episode 116 with the title, igniting change from the top. And I have the absolute honor and privilege to welcome Mark Bateman. Mark is the CEO of Wequill and author of Disruptive Leadership. When I asked Mark to describe his superpower, he said, he is incredibly insightful when coaching others and able to build trust very quickly and get to the root of the challenge, also incredibly quickly. Hello, Mark.

Welcome to Jo. Yeah. Pleasure.

Brilliant. I hear you're in Malta. That's a lovely part of the world.

Yes. I recommend it, especially if anybody's currently under gray skies.

Looking out the window here in, sunny UK, not wind and rain and floods everywhere. So oh, yeah. Envious. Envious. So, Mark, igniting change for the top, tell me about that.

Jo I I I think I generally believe that leaders play well, self evidenced really, but leaders play an incredibly important role in not only our society, but our lives. And whether we are a leader or we follow leaders, Leaders are those that influence outcomes in some way. And it tends to be leaders that are top of organizations. And therefore, really what the leader or leadership team says, this is the direction we're going in, and this is how we all want to behave together. This is the culture you want to build. That tends to be what we tend to follow. So very much changes both at the top, but also led from the top.

Are people born leaders?

Well well, that's the age old question, isn't it? You know, I did a master's in leadership coaching, and it it was one of the really key questions that we looked at. I think that some have a personality type or traits that are maybe more suited, shall I say, to leadership. But others find themselves in leadership positions that never in a 1000000 years dreamt that they would be influencing others. So maybe there's an aspect of both nature and nurture, but actually many become leaders because they believe something powerful enough that they want to drive change in some way, and they find themselves as a de facto leader and then learn the skills of leadership in the process.

Yes. And you say that, become a de facto leader. A lot of people kind of end up, as you say, in leadership through progression, through opportunity. It's not always a tactical or strategic move. It's sometimes top top of the pile stuff. You know? You you're last one standing sometimes.

For sure. Yeah. You you have a you have a you see the world in a certain way or you have a certain ability or capability or a frustration or an anger or an excitement, and you take the lead. Literally, you influence. So you desire to drive that change. And whether you've got a capital l or a lowercase l, it doesn't really doesn't really matter. And it's not just in organizations either. Right? It's any aspect of community, society, in the family.

You can be the oldest. You can be the youngest. It doesn't it doesn't actually make any difference whatsoever. You could be a leader in one sphere and not a leader in another. So it's not like you are the leader and or you're not. It's very context driven as well.

Yeah. I can relate to that. Sometimes I wanna take my hat off and, sit at the back, and sometimes I wanna march at the front and, and inspire. You know, I I can it's a bit like playing some pub games like pool or dart. Sometimes I wanna win, and sometimes I'm just there for a laugh and and not I don't need to win. And No. Same with leadership. I don't need to feel that I'm driving everything.

It's nice to have a back seat and the shoulders drive.

Surely as well that that's an aspect of good quality leadership is knowing when to lead and when to step back. It's kind of an aspect of of self awareness, really.