Hello, everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood and I'm your host for the Inclusion Bites podcast. In this series, I've interviewed a number of amazing people have simply had a conversation around the subject of inclusion, belonging and generally making the world a better place for everyone to thrive. If you'd like to join me in the future, then please do drop me a line to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk, that's S-E-E Change Happen dot co dot uk. You can catch up with all of the previous shows on itunes, Spotify and the usual places. So plug in your headphones, grab a decaf and let's get going. Today is Episode 90 with the title "Conversations Beyond Borders", and I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Kaumudi, Kaumudi Goda, or KG, to her friends and associates. KG is a Leadership Consultant, Executive Coach and DEIB Strategist.
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The Inclusion Bites Podcast
Conversations Beyond Borders
Speaker
Joanne Lockwood
Speaker
Kaumudi Goda
00:00 Diverse perspectives vital for broader understanding. Avoid bias.
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“I've interviewed a number of amazing people and simply had a conversation around the subject of inclusion, belonging, and generally making the world a better place for everyone to thrive.”
“We have to avoid the temptation to want to be right, to speak through our own lens, to speak through our own perspective. As the only thought, I think is the trouble with opinions is they are often based on our own facts, our own view of the world, and not necessarily reflective of other facts.”
“We need visionary folks who have distinct ideas and assertively state them with clarity. We need that voice, but we also need folks who are quite strong in their own thoughts and voices, but are feeling ready to hold a space for more than one truth at the same time.”
“It's part of coach training. But it was so transformative for me. It just became a big part of who I am today.”
“But I think that due diligence of looking at everything painstakingly, considering all potential pitfalls, all perspectives, is absolutely vital.”
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When I asked KG to describe her superpower, she said it's her cross siloed perspective, passion for fact based big picture thinking and a commitment to ethical, compassionate business. Hello, Kg, welcome to the show.
Hi, Joanne. Thank you for having me.
Absolute pleasure. So you're in Amsterdam at the moment and it's a bit cold, damp and wet over there.
Is it? Yeah, the temperatures plunged this past week, so we're headed for a rather frosty winter, looks like, here.
Yeah, I guess it is the 1 December, so, yeah, I guess we've got colder weather to come, but, yeah, as long as we're wrapped up nice and warm in our own homes, that's all that matters right now.
Absolutely.
KG conversations beyond borders. Tell me more about that.
I loved when you picked that title for our conversation. Conversation is very important to me. I call my business the Human Conversation because I think if we can all rise above our little differences and have conversations at a human level, we'd definitely be able to build a better future for all of us together. And so Conversations Beyond Borders seems perfect for our conversation this morning.
Yeah, I think that's a good starting point, isn't it? Because often, and we look at the world around us at the moment where there are conflicts and tragedies happening, wars, conflicts, wherever you want to describe them, and most of them are where conversations break down. And it's really, really important that we recognise how we don't always have to be right. Not being right is really important and understanding perspectives. So for me, that's the basis of conversation. So what do you talk about in those sort of terms?
My own sensitivity and my lens is informed by the fact that I've always felt like I don't really fit in. I remember I felt like I didn't fit in as a young girl growing up in a rather patriarchal culture in South India. I didn't feel like I fit in as a young professional, pretty new in New York City, Manhattan. I spent a decade there and I think as I went through life, my realisation was. All of us are seeking that sense of community, that sense of validation, wanting to feel seen, heard, understood, accepted. That's a universal human emotion. But all of us are mired in our own little worries, feeling alone and wanting to connect and yet failing to realise everyone else is likely feeling the same. We all feel like we are islands, maroon.
And if we could embrace our own positions in those borders, recognise that maybe standing, feeling like we're standing outside, looking in, everyone else is in the same spot, it might make it easier to really appreciate somebody else's perspective, somebody else's viewpoint, and accept that my journey might be different from yours. But you're equally valid and entitled to having your opinions, having your life experiences, informing your worldviews, just as I am entitled to mine. That space of patience, compassion, curiosity that comes, I think, both with willingness to accept it, but also maybe time and patience with that. I certainly still feel I'm on that journey, but I'm willing to embrace it and I invite everyone else to do so as well.
Yeah, that's really important. And I think what you're saying there is we have to avoid the temptation to want to be right, to speak through our own lens, to speak through our own perspective. As the only thought, I think is the trouble with opinions is they are often based on our own facts, our own view of the world, and not necessarily reflective of other facts. Which is why we know diversity is important, diversity of voice is important in organisations and society to get more than one truth. Because there's obviously my perspective, your perspective and the shared perspective of a greater view of something. But we get too hung up, though, don't we, on having to be right. Confirmation bias, I think, for want of a better way of describing it, as a human species, why would I want to be wrong all the time? It's a human trait to be right, isn't it?
And I think we need all kinds of perspectives, all kinds of energies and visions. If I could pick an example of a team that's working together. We need visionary folks who have distinct ideas and assertively state them with clarity. We need that voice, but we also need folks who are quite strong in their own thoughts and voices, but are feeling ready to hold a space for more than one truth at the same time. And we need both those voices. In a company, you need that assertive, charismatic, extroverted promoter of the business idea, but you also need folks who are collaborative, open to other ideas, willing to explore this might be true, but what else might be true? What are we not considering? What are we failing to consider when we say assertively, this is the direction we want to go? You need all those energies together in a team. It takes discipline and it takes commitment, but it also takes a great deal of self confidence to be holding that space of saying I am very sure about what I believe in, but I can also respect somebody else's beliefs and be willing to listen to it. It's not easy.
I acknowledge that. It takes, I think, a lot of self confidence and patience and certainly experience.
Yeah. I think often we find that leaders, managers, project leaders in organisations often lack what I would call cultural competency or cultural intelligence to be able to be competent in environments where they have a range of different views, different experiences, range of personality types, if you like. And often when we're trying to lead these teams, we don't truly understand each person's motivation, each person's communication style, each person's sort of the way they want to interact. And sometimes we treat people the same and miss the nuances of people's personalities.
Agree, John? And also, I think that in the corporate sector we tend to defy a certain personality type. The cult of personality, which is fairly prevalent in United States in the corporate world, there certainly has seemed to have spread in other parts of the world as well. I see that charismatic CEO type of a personality that's the one that's most recognised as leadership looks like that. I had a conversation with a quiet friend once and he told me kg, do you recognise what a disadvantage it is to be a soft spoken, introverted, shy person in the corporate world? You're simply not seen as leadership material. And what a blow that is to all of us that we cannot recognise leadership in all its forms.
Being outspoken, outgoing for an introvert or even an ambivert, or someone who is not competent in speaking out can be very exhausting, can't it's? Almost inauthentic as well, because you're having to be the person you're not, you're covering, you're masking, you're pretending just to be heard. That's exhausting.
Yes, it is. We shouldn't have to mask, we shouldn't have to code switch. These are all terms that perhaps you and I are familiar with, but for those who are not familiar with it, masking is if I were to feel uncomfortable with being myself and I have to put up a front, behave in a certain way, change myself to fit into a workplace culture, that would be masking. And code switching is similarly, I speak differently. I communicate and hold myself out in a certain way because I feel speaking as myself, communicating what is naturally my style would not be acceptable. That's code switching as well. And we all do that. And we should be cognizant of the importance of creating spaces where none of us have to mask or code switch.
Yeah, I mean, people are probably more familiar these days with the term or phrase bring your whole self to work and also psychological safety, which are kind of ways of creating environments where people don't have to mask, code switch or cover or hide who they are. So we're already trying to bring those senses of self into the workplace and allow people to be themselves more and more 100%.
Psychological safety is absolutely the number one thing all of us need. Until I feel I am in a safe space, I'm not even able to be curious, to be a learner, to even bring my best to work, forget about feeling like I can trust my colleagues. That won't even be the second or third step. The first step is to feel safe. Then I can relax, then I can learn, then I can do my best, and then perhaps I'll consider connecting with other people. None of those will happen without psychological safety. You're absolutely right.
You mentioned that you are based in North America for a while. You've lived in Singapore for a while, maybe you grew up in India. Now you're in Amsterdam and Netherlands. Tell us a bit about your career and how that's evolved over those years.
That's a beautiful analogy right there. I think that's perhaps paralleled by my career as well. I've moved around a lot and that informs my lens. Similarly, in my career, I started out as a lawyer. I practised law in New York City for about seven years. And therefore that legal perspective, that risk assessment, that compliance with regulatory, the logic that all of us abide by certain laws is very central to how I look at solving problems in the workplace as well. And about seven years in Joanne, I realised I was that classic Indian kid. I was blinkers on.
Grades were important, as is with a lot of children growing up in the Global South. Grades were important because your education is your passport to a better life, more secure food security, shelter, financial security. All of that comes with working hard and having access to better education. And that's what I focused on. And law seemed like a solid career. I love it. I absolutely enjoyed my legal career. But seven years in, I was beginning to question what else is out there? Because I had never explored anything else.
My dad's a lawyer as well, and our conversations around the dinner table were all around that career. And so MBA then seemed like a good pairing, because an MBA really is like a finishing course. It's a miniature introduction to a lot of different topics marketing, accounting, finance. And I realised I was gravitating a lot towards leadership development and human strategy, human capital strategy. And I think it's because what gave me the greatest joy with law was understanding that we all operate within a certain regulatory framework. And the challenge is to find solutions for your clients within that. And in a corporate world, when as a consultant, as a person working in human capital strategy, it's the same. You're working within the corporate regulatory framework and you're trying to solve for your clients, for your stakeholders, for your products.
And so it spoke to me and about, again, seven years in of that I'm curious learner. I thought, I'm a lawyer and consultant. A lot of people confide in me, how can I hold space for better conversations? How can I better support people who are speaking with me, confiding me in me, all sorts of things. I thought maybe coaching is a good skill to acquire. And it was catalytic and transformative. Joanne I just ended up thinking, why didn't I do it 20 years back? I would have been a better human being for it. This is so phenomenal because it was indeed training on skills, but also deeper reflection. The kind that I'd never learned in law school, never learned in business school, is really exploring who I am, why I show up in certain ways, in certain situations and what do I want to be going forward.
And that sort of deep exploration to my own psyche was meant to be a foundation for how I can hold that space for other people. It's part of coach training. But it was so transformative for me. It just became a big part of who I am today. So, like, with how I moved around a lot, physically, geographically, I also moved around a lot in my career. And all of that boundary spanning, standing at the edges, looking in, is also what feels like my career. These are all support services, law consulting, these are all folks who are standing and supporting central business activity. And I guess that's the red thread is throughout all of that, I was seeking, what's the right thing to do? How can we be the truest, how can I be the truest, most maybe value based person? I can be doing the most right thing I could do? And that's also what I realised, is what I am trying to create with my work today is creating those workplaces that are ethical, inclusive, inspirational.
I think it's possible for all of us. I think I often find that's a big component that's missing in lots of education is helping people find that inner core. Because if you are in touch with that, no matter how crazy the context is, through COVID, through any of the complex VUCA ness of the world, because you know who you are at the core, you're informed by that. And that in turn will be your North Star.
I think I mentioned this to you in the green room before we went live, that my background was in It and computing and I probably spent the formative parts of my life and career in a logical black and white binary. It works, it doesn't work. Very absolute world. And I'm going to make the assumption that being a lawyer is quite absolute at times. You win, you lose. You're right, you're wrong. There's a definitive answer to everything. And what I found moving into the people space was that there are no absolutes people are people people are different.
People have different perspectives. And I realised that I was forcing my brain into a logical place that it was okay with. But actually it wanted to find the human connection, it actually wanted to find the human factor. I wanted to explore compassion, I wanted to explore different feelings and emotions and be vulnerable, whereas in the past it was all around right, wrong, black, white, fix, not working, illness and things. So I found the last seven years of my life very fulfilling. And is that a similar sort of journey that you've discovered with yourself?
I love that. You're absolutely right. But as someone working in the technical field, I imagine precision, finality, clarity, absolutes are your world. And many ways law is precisely that as well. That's been my own journey too. In fact, one of my most favourite stories is when I joined my coach training programme. One of the master trainers was a man called Mark Hempstead, who's sadly passed on. And in my conversation with him, I said, you know, I'm a lawyer, I'm trained to be neutral.
And he had a big laugh about lawyers being neutral, because lawyers tend to be very opinionated and whole. You're absolutely know, it's either this or that. And I often think of that twinkle in his eye when I think about how far I've come in that ability to hold space for myself and for others, that more than one thing could be true at all times. The world is full of such complex and wicked problems, isn't it, joanne, you and I could both be working on the same problem. You're addressing a certain aspect of it. I'm addressing a certain aspect of it. My solution might harm yours and vice versa. Yet both of us could be absolutely well intentioned and focused on solving the exact same problem.
And therefore, what do we do then? It's about embracing the fact that both things can be true at the same time, and that's the complexity all around us. And we need to find ways in which we can collaborate and work across silos and solve those wicked problems and understand. Sometimes it's about priorities and sometimes it's about maybe coming together and addressing something else that both of us can agree on.
I don't know if you found this when you were practising law that people wanted. They wanted an answer, they wanted some sort of reassurance that they were right or they were wrong, or would this work and same in my It career. People came to me and they wanted me to be the expert, they wanted me to have the answer. And there's an immense amount of pressure to have to be the answer to everyone's problems, to be able to resolve things. And I often say to people, the reason it's a problem is because it's a problem. If it wasn't a problem, I'd have solved it instantly, I'd have fixed it, I'd have come up with the answer, but the fact of the problem is I had to investigate it, I have to think about it. That's not necessarily a now thing, it could be a week thing, could be a month thing. And I appreciate you want answers quickly, but problems are problems, they've been resolved.
And I learned in my electronics career background, you can fault find, you can half split, you can narrow down the root of the problem to left half or right half, then left half or right half, then left half, so you're narrowing the scope down. But with people you can't always do that. You have to go into them with vulnerability and compassion. You have to go in with not knowing the answer and almost going in, not needing to find out the answer, just help people down a path. I think that's true in the Dei space as well, that there's no absolute solutions, just a best journey that everyone can get behind and buy into.
Yes, and as an advisor, I find that the answer of it depends is the least popular answer. Nobody wants to hear it. Can you just get to it? Don't Hemmen horn, don't be stuck in analysis paralysis. But I think that due diligence of looking at everything painstakingly, considering all potential pitfalls, all perspectives, is absolutely vital. That's precisely the space I occupy. That's my personality as well. I am very marks data driven, but what I find, and this has been my journey, Joe, is you might do all of your entire process, but you need to also be informed by a very clear understanding of who you want to be, what you want your legacy to be. There are many situations in life and work where there are no clear answers and then you need to be informed by what can I live with? I need to make a tough choice now as a leader, as a manager, as a person responsible for something, and there are no clear answers, I need to make a call.
But the call needs to be made on what are your values? At the end of the day, looking back, are you going to be satisfied that you did the best you could? It might fail, but if you proceeded based on a certain set of values you've thought through, then likely you're going to regret less in life. And that's very important. I find that missing often. Perhaps one of the most important things all of us can invest in is surfacing and unearthing and holding close to us those values and also acknowledge that maybe those values evolve as they should. What your value system? What my value system was when I was in my teens is certainly not what it is now as a person with some life experience and some travels and some education, and I think we should all continue to evolve.
I travelled quite a lot my younger life. I worked for a global bank and I was privileged to be able to travel to their offices around the world from west coast of America, california, north and South California east Coast, New York, Miami, Cross, Europe, Far East, Hong Kong, Singapore. So I travel quite extensively. Also in my social life, I was a member of a club and we regularly used to have mainly European meetings and further afield where I would stay in people's homes for a long weekend, maybe four or five days, meet their children, eat around their table, sit around their fire in the back garden, in their hot tub in Iceland or somewhere. So you get to experience all these different cultures and that is so enriching to be invited to someone else's home as a member of their family for several days and it's a privilege to enjoy their hospitality and culture and learn so much from them.
Spot on. One of my current favourite metaphors is I'm new in Europe, so this is my third continent I'm living and working in. And so one of the things I learned early on, it's probably apocryphal, but apparently the Canadian Inuit have over 50 words to describe various forms of snow and that's because they have a lot of snow that they encounter in their daily lives and that's the vocabulary they need. And the Dutch, by popular pop culture, have more words for bad weather than all the words in innovate culture. And so it may or may not be true, but it tickles me because I think that is so important. To understand a person, to truly understand and know a person, I think we need to understand what are their challenges, what are their priorities, what is it that they are currently focused on? And so, as much as all of us are working these days, perhaps in global organisations with global vision, that local sensitivity in understanding what shoes a person's walking in, what is their vocabulary, what do they need the most nuance in their life for? And knowing that it varies what I have the most vocabulary for, probably your vocabulary is very focused on something entirely different. And to truly know you and understand you, I need to get that.
Yeah. As you say, this is now your third continent. You must have picked up a whole breadth and depth of cultural information. Food, you say, the weather, the way people interact with each other, how they greet each other, personal space. There's a whole lot of different dynamics, more than just plain language, isn't there, around communication and being together?
I don't know about breadth and depth, but certainly greater humility around the fact that there's so much we do not know, so much that it's so very easy to not realise, not sense, not be sensitive to, and how important it is to keep your eyes wide open. That sense of learning and humility is certainly what I'm more and more growing towards. From a relatively fresh perspective, I do notice that for me, one obvious change as a practitioner is in the US. It's pretty forefront of conversations and consciousness, the language and vocabulary and sensitivity around inclusion, because there has been a lot of public discourse. Now people may fall at any end of the spectrum. There's a whole range of reactions and thoughts and opinions about it, even within United States. But certainly at the forefront of that conversation, there public discourse. In Asia, for instance, there is a greater sense of we are a little different.
We know, we understand in a certain sense, but also because in the Global South there is a great motivation for getting with the rest of the world aspirational interest in ensuring we correct what needs to be corrected, anxiety and obviously worry about holding our identity secure. But certainly let's get a move on. And because of that motivation, the conversation has trickled absolutely into public discourse there as well, joe and that's my observation. These conversations are happening, in fact, perhaps even a little bit more advanced and more open mindedness in my observation, in Asia, having lived there for nearly a decade as well. I'm brand new in Europe, and I have to say I've had the fortune of meeting many, many wonderful advocates, practitioners, allies and amplifiers for dei. But my very new eyes tell me here, there, I think, perhaps is a more widespread block between knowing and doing. The identity seems to be we are the good guys. We have not had historic tradition of slavery, we have not had a historic tradition of being oppressors, and therefore we good guys.
We have it more sorted. This is not our problem. And with that identity, I think, also comes a stubbornness sort of a blind spot around curiosity for other perspectives. What else can I do? If I hold that I am a very good person, a very woke person, a very sorted and inclusive person, then perhaps I'm shutting off conversation that's possible around what can I do differently? What can I improve more? And that is my speaking as a very new person here. I would say perhaps that's something we can embrace more, is curiosity around what can.
That's a very interesting perspective. So as a person who's lived in the UK most of my life, I'm white, grown up in a fairly average family, I don't see myself as a colonialist, I don't see myself as an invader. I don't see myself as somebody who has gone out into the world and destroyed cultures. That's something that happened in the history books. That's something that happened by somebody else. Whereas I think what I'm picking up on what you're saying is when you're in the Global South, you're living with the impact of colonialism and that echo is still there, even three, 4500 years later. So when you come to the Global North, you're seeing a kind of a detachment from that reality. But when you're in the Global South, you're living with that day to day.
That's beautifully put, and thank you for saying that. The thing the disconnect from the acknowledgement of power and privilege, it's so subtle, it's practically invisible. And I think it becomes very easy to have a big blind spot around it. And perhaps the most Dutch example I can give is the Dutch are great cyclers. They cycle everywhere. And when we were new here in the summer, we all stepped out and said, let's go cycling together. It's a beautiful family activity. And on the way out, Joanne, we were cycling.
It was gorgeous. Dutch countryside is stunning in its beauty. Flowers everywhere, meadows, sheeps, horses. Such a country focused on sustainability. It was beautiful and joyous. And about halfway through our journey, we said, let's turn back. And all of a sudden I was huffing and puffing and I couldn't focus on any of the countryside. And all I was thinking about was like, my God, I suck at cycling.
This is so hard. I don't think I can cycle all the way back home. And I think the difference simply was that when we were on our outward journey, the breeze was aiding our journey forward, and that was invisible. The winds were invisible to me. They were pleasant. It was a beautiful summer breeze. But the whole system was aiding me in moving forward. And I was able to focus on the beauty of the world and my family and my lovely little boys and just how good this all feels.
But the minute the system was working against me, it was equally invisible. But I couldn't focus on anything. All I could focus on was my hardship. And that's very true of folks from the Global South, folks from any sort of non dominant identity trying to operate in workplaces, in cultures where they do not have that invisible systemic support, power and privilege. It's invisible to both of us. But if you have an advantage, you're able to enjoy and navigate the workplace in a way I simply cannot. And I might look like I'm preoccupied with my uniqueness, my difference, and how that makes my life difficult. It might seem like it's a loser attitude and victim attitude, but it's because nothing else is possible for me while the system is making it subtly invisibly harder for me to be part of it and navigate it with the same ease and confidence.
That's that subtle difference between knowing and doing. Because in many workplaces, in many leadership, let's say a table, if we use that frequent dei metaphor, I'm at the table. But I certainly feel like I'm an invited guest. I'm there at your largest. This is not my table. I better watch it. I better watch my language. I better be watchful about what I need to and how I need to navigate it, because it might be rescinded.
That invitation might be rescinded any moment, one false step. How does then being strategic, being. More rising above myself become possible to me at all. I'm focused on survival. It's that 101 inclusion, 101. All of us universally, I think we can say majority of us are working on it consciously. But after that basic level of inclusion, we now have built a table and invited folks in. That next level of inclusion where we focus on these subtleties, these nuances, these ways in which it's easier for me.
It's my stage, my table, my mic, versus maybe it's not yours. And you feel very much like a guest. How can I make that better? We can be more sensitive to it. I think it would be a lovely step forward, a levelling up, if you will, on inclusion.
I love that analogy and obviously your real experience of that subtle breeze on your back gives you that you're unaware of, that subtle aid and boost you're getting. But when it's on your front, you become hyper aware that the same breeze that helps you is the same breeze that oppresses you, the same breeze that stops you succeeding, makes your journey harder. So if two people cycling in different directions for the same breeze have a different experience, and that's a really powerful analogy, and I love the way that you brought that out there. You talked about this table, it's not your table, it's somebody else's table. And that's the challenge, I find, is that whether we're talking about female empowerment, whether we're talking about antiracism anti Semitism, whatever, we're talking about ableism. The challenge is that the table has been built and constructed and hosted by people who hold power and privilege in some way, whether they're white, whether they're men, whether able bodied, whether they're Christian or non religious, whatever it may be. That's who owns the table. And what you're saying is the day will come where people who are marginalised people have taken their power.
They've put the wind behind them, if you like, so they're getting the amplification, then the people who used to hold the power and privilege will be either a guest at the table or they won't come to the table at all because they're not used to having those conversations from a position of marginalisation. So how do we get people who are used to power and privilege to recognise that and to want to have conversations?
It is very hard. I think it takes a tremendous amount of discipline and self reflection to be mindful, even, because it can be so subtle and so seductive to fall into the usual it feels familiar, that usual pace of things. I was advising a global organisation where there was a huge drive to bring in more global diversity at their topmost leadership level. And what I found was that they kept asking, Why are we not succeeding? Why do we have such a high attrition rate? Why do folks fail to apply even when opportunity is given at the top most leadership level? And it was because folks had been there for the longest time. They were used to hyper effective. I understand you completely because we've walked the same path, we've had the same education, we speak the same language, we know the organisation that we have built from scratch, inside out, therefore we have a short hand. It's almost like I can look at you and you understand instantly what I'm thinking, but someone else from a very distinct, different experience, different skill set, different way of communicating, it just feels slower. And it's like they don't get it.
And what they say, I get it, I've known it. I've known it for years. And so when we do that, when we do that dismissive, fine, but this is slower and this is not effective. We are just seeking the comfort of what is familiar to us. But the impact of that dismissal can be tremendous on those who have been newly invited to that space. And that's really, really important to pay attention to. So what can folks who currently do have those dominant positions, whether it was conscious or not? If you observe that there are folks, perhaps who are new to the table who might feel they are invited, they might be suffering from impostor syndrome or any other kinds of nervousness or anxiety around, maybe they don't quite fully belong in that room. What can you do? Be more mindful about the words and actions.
If there is a conversation around a decision, an exploration of an idea, brainstorming of any kind, let the other folks share their opinions before the folks currently holding the familiar positions speak. I have seen many different mechanisms being employed effectively, joanne, for instance, when you're voting on something, let even the unpopular choices be populated by the support of the leaders. For example, if you are leading my team and there is an unpopular choice to be currently considering, if you give it support, whether or not you believe in it, it encourages those who are more quiet to speak up. If they're thinking that our team is better off choosing an unpopular choice because you made it okay to choose that. Another could be say there are some quieter voices that tend not to speak up in team meetings. You could invite them to send their opinion to you one on one via email, or set up some time with you prior to the meeting. If they're quieter voices, what can we do to bring those to the fore? What can we do to make it okay for them to share it? Let's all be watching about how quickly we dismiss something. A lot of times now, reverse mentoring has become instituted in a lot of organisations.
You have a 20 something intern sitting on the board. Are we genuinely encouraging that person to share their perspective, or are we being subtly patronising without even realising it bad? Good job. How is that going to encourage that person to share anything? Or dismissively making a statement of, oh, entitled Gen Z or Alpha gen or you guys probably know all about it's humour, it's easy, it's familiar, it's comforting to resort to that quickly. Therefore it takes discipline, for sure, to be mindful of it. These may be very, very subtle, but that's where we step up from Inclusion 101 to genuinely levelling up and saying our actions, our behaviours, our strategies are now aligned with what we say we want. Because as a consultant, as an advisor going into organisations, this is my observation. If we hold out that we are an inclusive leader, inclusive team, inclusive organisation, invite people in and then we let them down by all of these subtle, subconscious, unconscious behaviours. More overtly if there fail to be consequences of those leaders who are currently in downward positions, they behave badly, they make poor choices, they're not aligned with our stated values.
And as an organisation, as a team, there are no consequences to that. Or worse. We let people in and when they speak up, we punish them. We punish the whistleblowers in any of these three things, whether it's subtle, unconscious or no consequences for behaviour not aligned with our stated values, or we punish the whistleblowers for saying the uncomfortable thing. All three situations. Two things happen. Those voices that are actively trying to make the workplace better, they quit, they walk out. And those voices that were mastering up the nerve to no longer be fence sitters, to no longer be quiet, they will go right back into hiding.
And that's a dead ecosystem.
It's a real challenge, though, if you're in the EDI space, the dib space, as a practitioner, as an in house person, to keep on keeping on. It is exhausting because you find that you're always having conversations almost every day, trying to enlighten people who often don't want to be enlightened, that they go, what's wrong? Everything's good. I don't see race, I don't see colour, I don't see this. I treat everyone the same, missing the sort of nuances of their position, their power, as you say, their majority. And it does become exhausting. And even though I don't work inside corporates that often, just the conversations I have with friends, just listening to the attitudes around a restaurant table, they're ingrained deeply in many people's psyche and lived experience that they don't see the world as having a problem. Again, you talked earlier about this wind in your face, wind behind you. When you've had the wind behind you all the time, you think that's the norm, but it is your norm.
And the fact that other people are struggling the other way, your attitude is, well, they have to work harder, or why should I give them, why should I sacrifice myself for them? So how do we, as practitioners, as dei professionals, or anybody out there who's listening, who is wanting to change the world for the better, how do we keep up and keep on in the face of these challenges all the time.
That's actually a question that I struggle with as well. And so what bubbled up for me, Joanne, when you were saying this that's so close to my heart and resonates with what I struggle with as well is, Joanne, when you have felt exhausted or overwhelmed or asked yourself, this is so thankless, why should I even try? Why not go back to a safe, highly paying profession of being It consultant? When you feel like that, what has given you some relief, some comfort and some motivation? What has helped you recharge your own batteries?
I suppose for me, I just dig deep into why I do what I do. Seven or eight years ago, I was the person with the wind on my back, cycling with the aid. And one event, my gender transition, was my equivalent of coming back the other way. And suddenly, I'm now facing that wind in my face. I don't understand what oppression is, what marginalisation is, what it's like to be talked about in a negative way or accused of things or judged in a way. So what I do is I dig deep. I suppose I look back at that pivot point in my life where I went from being blind to being awake or woke, whatever you want to call that word, to awake to what's going on. And that's why we do what we do.
That's why I do what I do is once you've seen what's going on, once you're aware of what's going on, you can't go back. You can't take the other pill and forget it all again. You've made that choice to expose yourself to what's going on. So no matter how exhausting it is, I know it's more exhausting for other people who are living it in a harder way than I experience it. My life is relatively privileged still. I'm still white. I've still had a good education. I'm still British.
I speak the language of my country. I have a house, I have a family. I have lots of things of privilege, and I have one element of my, if you like, my characteristic, my personality, my being, that is not so privileged. There are people who have refugees. We have people migrating into this country with nothing, not even a pair of shoes, not even the language, not even a penny in their pocket. They have a far tougher time than I will ever experience. And I think by being aware and having that compassion, that empathy, that humility, all those kind of soft, emotional, intelligence type skills, you can't unlearn that. I don't think I can unlearn that.
And so what keeps me going? Knowing that this journey is infinite and there will be bumps on it, but we got to keep on keeping on, because if I don't who.
Beautiful. That's so spot on.
So you must have noticed in your work, over three continents, there's obviously a different priority in terms of dei work. So dei work in India, in the global south, has a different priority than maybe in the Netherlands, maybe in New York or in North America. Racism is big topic. North America is it as big in the Netherlands, racism hopefully has a different set of connotations. It's more about colonialism, maybe about education in India and the south, or gay rights or queer rights or things like that. We all have different views on it. I remember talking to a person who was based in Berlin, and the challenge they have around racism is around the large Turkish population they have. So it's not around black people, white people, it's around racism against the Turkish population of Germany.
And that's a different perspective. I also believe in the Netherlands, the words that Dutch people use for black and white have different connotations. So white means unwell pasty, unhealthy. So they don't talk about black people and white people. They use different language. So even the language in our dei world is nuanced and the priorities are subtly different and the challenges are different across the globe, aren't they?
Absolutely. I think it is very integral to the culture, the ethos, the philosophy of people towards life. And so, for instance, having lived in Singapore, it was very much a striver culture. Work hard, martyr yourself at work. If you stay till 08:00, Joanne, then I'm going to stay till 930 to prove how sincere I am and how hardworking I am. And it's infectious, that attitude of strive hard and keep up. And so each culture is different. For example, in Indonesia, they have very much the approach that it's a family, the way they eat, it's communal eating, and that culture is everyone's family.
And so that attitude that a leader of a team is almost like a parent figure for the team. It informs the kind of decisions, their attitude towards how they make policy choices. And it's very, very different from culture where it's very individualistic. In Netherlands, for instance, it's very individualistic, it's very around individual freedoms and rights. I do what is right for me. And so every corporate culture is unique to that office in that region. And it's really important to recognise that. I had, for instance, a global organisation that was needing to do some global work on inclusion.
And one of the plaintiff voices from Asia was it's a peak period. Everybody is working overtime, some of the places we live, stepping out as a female or any other vulnerable identity, late night to take a long public transport, commute back home is unsafe. And in this time, if you say we're going to spend a day learning about Martin Luther King and the history of racism in America, this is not relevant to where I live and it is taking me away from a very critical period. I'm not going to get any time off for this. I'm not going to get any leeway around my deliverables. You've made me unsafe, you've stressed me out even more and it's not even relevant to me. Spend a day studying the history of racism in another country, in the other end of the world, and this is a reality. We need to come up with ways in which the work we are doing is relevant to the people we are trying to impact.
In another instance, I was advising an embassy, they were all talking about unconscious bias and the security person was sitting at the same table as a diplomat. And security person said, I'm holding a gun and standing guard outside the embassy of a foreign country in my home country. When someone approaches the compound rapidly, I have a split second to decide. Now, I cannot spend ten minutes, kg, as you're suggesting, letting the fast thought go by and the slow thinking kick in. I need to make a split second decision because my job and the lives of everyone I'm guarding depend on it. And therefore we cannot have blanket training programmes and blanket advice and mechanisms. We need to be sensitive to the context of that particular person, their function, their level, their priorities, their deliverables, their geographic location, their cultural influences. It's so subtle and so varied and.
That'S where someone's ingrained bias becomes amplified because they don't have the luxury or privilege, as you say, to slow think. You are reacting in the moment. And that's where our ingrained biases exist, those in the moment decisions. So someone's skin colour, someone's gender, someone's just persona, their accent, those drive, those instant decisions based on that person's ingrained bias. And that puts a perspective. It's different on how people, their personal safety, their motivation, their drivers to protect themselves will kick in. Whereas we, as dei practitioners, in most organisations, we do talk about slowing thinking down, bringing it to the prefrontal cortex, we talk about taking it away from our reptilian brain, but that is not a luxury that everybody has. That's a very interesting thought.
And as a person who works, and oftentimes my lens is informed by compliance and risk assessment. If you think about whistleblowers, people in the ecosystem speaking up for what's right or flagging something that's going wrong, that's dysfunctional, the weight on that person and the way that person assesses their ability and willingness to speak up depends on what risks they are undertaking and what they feel the system will do to them after. If you are a person who is just feeling lucky to have that job, who needs that job to make ends meet, to pay the rent cheque, to provide food for the family, if you have responsibilities, then chances are you're going to turn a blind eye because you feel that system will not provide any consequences for the person who has been flagged or the act that is being flagged. Rather, the person who's speaking up will be punished. And we have to be sensitive about that. It's very easy to tell that single mom who needs that job very badly, well, why didn't you speak up? Why did you put up with it? Why did you turn a blind eye? Well, she didn't have a choice. Well, she perceived that she do not have a choice if we sensitive to that and find ways in which we can make that okay, level the playing field, so to speak, if we truly want it. And there's so many disadvantages to having dysfunctional workplaces where people in the system do not feel empowered to speak up, to flag what's going wrong.
We've seen again and again, right, Joanne, the submarine that exploded close to Titanic, there were voices along the way throughout the process of creating that vehicle that said, this is something is terribly wrong. It's not going to work. They were silenced. The same thing happened with many space exploration projects as well. Billions of dollars were lost. I'm sure you know this example very well because engineers had spoken up, had said, this is not going to work. The mechanism is faulty, it's vulnerable, and they were told to shut up because billions were at stake and there's a deadline to be met, and please stop quibbling about small details that nobody cares about. And then the end result is tremendous, catastrophic loss to everybody in the whole project.
Yeah, that's so true. And I think one thing the airline industry has learned over the years is this radical candle where you do speak up, you do challenge it's a different culture. Whereas we look at some cultures, as you say, it's a about book. We're hiding oppressing, keeping it down, because how can we be seen to be failing? We have to achieve. We have to hit that goal at any cost. Whereas the airline industry has probably learnt that it can't do that anymore, and it's safer now than it's ever been, because people call it out and they are listened to. And I think that's really important in the HR, in the people space. It's giving people that psychological safety, knowing they will be heard, and it will be actioned not buried.
I'm a great believer in the fact that there is no such thing as a legal entity. I'm a lawyer. I know that there is a legal entity, there is a corporation, but it's comprised of people. And therefore my comfort level with conflict, the way I respond to conflict, the way I respond to a difficult conversation, the way I communicate when situations are awkward or uncomfortable, absolutely informs the culture. It doesn't matter if I'm the boss, if I'm an underling, whatever my position in hierarchy might be. There is much to be acknowledged about the power of a single person and therefore understanding myself, understanding what triggers me. What's my response to conflict? How do I choose to communicate? My difficulty, my discomfort, my stance on things informs the culture. Likewise, the leader has a tremendous responsibility around having space for difficult conversations, to engage in conflict in productive ways.
So you're absolutely right. Radical candour and also maybe an understanding of ourselves and how we hold that space for difficult conversation. 100%.
You said right at the beginning about that you don't feel that you belong here there. So I often talk about the difference between inclusion and belonging. What's your take on the difference between inclusion and belonging and how do you think you can find the magic of belonging?
I think there's loads of research on what creates that belonging. It's certainly that final step of the pyramid of having diversity around the table, having inclusive policies, actions, behaviours mechanisms and systems and all of that together creates that sense of belonging. For me, my experience, personal experience, has been it's fairly straightforward. All of us seek that sense of safety. Am I safe to be myself with you? Am I safe to speak up my truth and disagree with you where it's relevant, or am I code switching and masking? And so once that sense of safety is established and it's a complex, ever evolving thing, isn't it? I have had conversations with best friends I've known all my life where I wasn't able to provide that psychological safety, because in that instant I got triggered and I said something that's not supportive and that's it, it fled. There's no longer psychological safety and suddenly we are all armoured up and watching carefully around, watching our P's and Q's around each other. That can happen in the oldest, most familiar friendships. And so let's acknowledge that psychological safety is ever evolving, it's super complex and every moment it changes shape.
Once that's established, then if I am able to perform to my best, because the systems, the processes, the policies are encouraging me, motivating me, supporting me, inspiring me to do my best work, and then I feel I'm rewarded for it. I'm seeing, I'm acknowledged that I'm sincere, I'm hardworking, I get benefits from it, but most of all, feeling a deeper sense of purpose, that there is meaning to the work I do and it's central to which way the boat is heading. I'm in this boat with everybody else. My work is valued, supported, rewarded, and we're all heading in the same direction. Then all those things come together to create that sense of belonging. I think, then I know this is my team, I'm going to fight for it. Ultimately, we are doing some good in life. That's my personal experience.
I think everyone's formula for belonging might vary as it should, and we should have conversation.
I like that. I like that. That's pretty good. I think that for me, that sums up that essence. It's being a DeMask feel, that sense of relaxedness safety. You say, knowing that you're respected and loved and that people have your back, those kind of things, all part of that. Yeah. Fantastic.
Wow. We've been chatting for over an hour. Time has flown and we could carry on talking all day, I'm sure. So you've written a couple of books, you've got your own organisation called The Human Conversation. Tell us more about that, how people can get hold of you.
I have a website I'm fairly active on, LinkedIn. My organisation is called the Human Conversation. I'm based out of Amsterdam, but I work across the world, as many of us do. Joanne so if you have a need for a leadership consultant, an advisor, a coach, a trainer, I'm available. Hit me up and look forward to having conversations. I have a question for you, if you have the time.
Joanne yeah, go for it.
I was curious about what's one thing that you have found evolved. You've evolved on your thinking about one topic, where you were on one point and then you're like, I'm at a different place on the same topic. Now.
That'S a tricky one to answer, because I've evolved so much in my thinking in the last seven or eight years. It's hard, I think, to put a finger on it. And I think the reason I asked you about belonging, I think one of the things that I did some self reflection and self analysis on was around the sense of belonging and what makes the difference between the difference between included and belonging. And it started to click into place for me, areas of my life where I was included, but I didn't feel belonging. And it empowered me to make choices, to move on from things that didn't make me happy. So, in the green room before, I mentioned the Icky guy and the four areas, what I'm good at, what the world needs, what I can make money at, and the important one for me is what I love. And I think what I discovered was belongingness in whatever I was doing was part of that. What I love doing.
If I didn't love it, if it wasn't ingrained in me, that quadrant became unbalanced. I wasn't feeling, no matter how much I was getting paid, no matter how much I was good at it, if I didn't love it. And I think, so recognising what belonging meant, it allowed me to step back and say, this isn't fulfilling me, this isn't making my life better. I am performing, I am forcing myself, covering, masking, pretending, whatever it may be. So I suppose that essence of Icky Guy and that essence of belonging now tries to drive me to do what I do. And it also drives me to recognise what doesn't work for me. So I'm not scared to step out and say, I'm sorry, that doesn't work for me. That's not me.
I don't feel it. So I suppose that's my answer to your question. Discovering belonging and what I love, that's so powerful.
I love that. And to be okay, to say no, to walk away from spaces and conversations that are not acceptable. That's beautiful, those boundaries, right? Having those healthy boundaries spot on.
Yeah. And I get challenged. I'm a trans woman in my late 50s. There's a lot of trans critical views, transcritical rhetoric, and people want to debate it. And I've discovered I don't owe anybody an argument, I don't owe anybody a justification, I don't owe anybody a defence. So I'm quite comfortable saying, I accept. We have dim perspectives, we're so polarised, there's no way we can come to the centre of this table and have a conversation. Therefore, I'm sorry, I don't owe you an argument.
I don't owe you a justification, because that's what you want to do. You want to provoke me into an argument or justification where you want to win. I don't need to be right. I don't need to win or lose. It doesn't fulfil me. Why take part in this? So it's allowed me to sort of step away from those. And when I see the negative language, the negative comments, I'm able to look at it very detached, very pragmatic. And the phrase I use, I see it as graffiti.
So graffiti sprayed onto a wall. It's anger expressed on a wall. It's not at me. You have anger. You have something that makes you different perspective to me. You're spraying on a wall. I don't have to look at it. I can drive past it, I can see it and go, Whatever.
I don't internalise it. I just see it for what it is. It's anger expressed somewhere else. So it allows me to reframe in that way. So I don't take things to heart. Okay, yes, I accept my armour sometimes gets pierced when I'm not ready, when I'm vulnerable or I feel too relaxed. Sometimes it can hit me. But mostly my self care, my resilience kick in and I may need to hide for an hour or two and come back.
But mostly I can process that and go, use my techniques, get out of this rut. It's just graffiti, it's not personal. They don't know me and then step away from it. So, yeah, I think all those combination of things is what I've discovered about myself in the last three, four, five.
Years that's so important, that those tools for self care and to just block out negativity and harshness when it's all around us, it's so hard. I love that you shared that. Thank you.
I'm going to carry this on. This is my show. But I'm also conscious that I can't put my fingers in my ear and bury my head in the sand. So I'm not excluding and blocking out those thoughts. I'm just processing them in a way that I don't internalise. So I look at them, I understand them, I recognise them. I hear your argument, I hear your debate, I hear your view, but I don't want to engage in it. So I'm not denying you to hold that view.
In fact, sometimes I actually spend. Time reading critical views, not just about trans or gender identity, but critical views around racism, critical views around other characteristics, because I think you have to know what's going on in the world, be able to process it and say, no, that's not what I think. I've spent a lot of time trying to do some research on the crisis going on in Israel and Palestine and with Hamas. I don't have an answer. I don't know the answer. But what I do know is I don't know. So I need to find out more. I have an opinion, and my opinion is peace needs to win.
People need to stop dying. People need to not kill each other. People can't have their families, their lives, everything ripped apart through conflict. That's what I stand against. Who's right? Who's wrong? I don't know. I can't solve that problem. But what I do know is, let's talk about peace. Let's talk about resolving this.
Let's talk about stopping people dying. So that's my focus. I do listen to perspectives. I don't shut them out, but I do it in a way where I'm able to process them and learn about things and form my own model, if you like. In my head around things and continually wanting to challenge it, avoiding the confirmation, avoiding biases that I know I probably hold, is deliberately trying to test myself to find alternate theories, alternate solutions. Probably my science background, my It background is you're always trying to look for information, different information, things, different solutions, different ways of working. So, yeah, I continue to challenge myself in that way. Sorry, that's me going off on one left.
And that rigour is really important. That rigour and your recognition of I thought you said it so beautifully when you said you don't owe an argument to anybody. But for that rigorous scientific processing of a complex problem. And coming up with a response rather than a mindless reaction needs a quiet time where you are able to block out unnecessary static and take in input, but nevertheless have that moment for yourself where you can think through things and have a thoughtful response to a situation that's absolutely important. In fact, that's perhaps more important than being reactive to everything and responding instantly to every noise that comes your way. You don't owe an argument to anybody. I loved when you said that.
I think that's also a good trait for leaders to approach, that you haven't got to have the answer now. You don't have to respond now. You can hold the space. You can say, Look, I need to think about that. You're right. There's some challenges there. Give me half an hour. Let me come up with some ideas.
Let's get back after a cup of coffee, and let's sit down when we're both ready for that conversation. And otherwise you do tend to just go off on your first thought, your first bias, your first reaction, and we need to be measured and considered a lot of the time. Beautiful, in my humble opinion, anyway. Kg, thank you. Thank you. We could carry on all day, I know we could. And hopefully one day we'll actually meet in person somewhere. Somewhere in the world.
And for you, the listeners, thank you for getting to the end of this episode of the Inclusion Bytes Podcast. Please do subscribe, if you're not already subscribed. And it's B-I-T-E-S. Inclusion Bites. B-I-T-E-S. Tell your friends tell your colleagues. I've got a number of other exciting guests lined up, and I'm sure you'd be equally inspired over the next few weeks and months. So this is episode 90.
It's not long till we turn 100. So hoping that there's going to be a guest who's going to be magical for the hundredth. Who knows, of course, that could be you being a guest. So, yeah, please sign up. I welcome any suggestions and feedback on how we can improve. To jo.lockwood@seechangehapen.co.uk. And finally, my name is Joanne Lockwood, and it's been an absolute pleasure to host this podcast for you today. Catch you next time.
Bye.
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🔖 Titles
Crossing Borders: Navigating Global DEIB Challenges
The World of Diversity: Exploring Global DEI Conversations
Inclusive Conversations Across Borders: Navigating Global Challenges
Global Diversity: Embracing Inclusive Conversations Beyond Borders
Embracing Diversity: Navigating Global DEI Challenges
Breaking Boundaries: Global Conversations on Diversity and Inclusion
Global Perspectives: Navigating Diversity and Inclusion Challenges
Embracing Diversity and Inclusion: A Global Conversation
Inclusive Global Perspectives: Navigating DEIB Challenges
Bridging Differences: Global Conversations on Diversity and Inclusion
ℹ️ Introduction
Welcome to The Inclusion Bites Podcast! In this episode, we're diving into the complex world of diversity, equity, and inclusion beyond borders. Host Joanne Lockwood and guest Kaumudi Goda, a Leadership Consultant and Executive Coach, share thought-provoking insights on the challenges of DEIB work on a global scale. From understanding cultural differences to fostering psychological safety in the workplace, we explore the importance of embracing diverse voices and creating inclusive environments. Join us as we delve into the nuances of DEIB conversations and the need to approach them with an open mind and a compassionate heart.
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 Emphasises importance of diverse perspectives over personal biases and desire to be right.
05:53 Team needs diverse perspectives, assertiveness, collaboration, and open-mindedness for success.
14:37 Deep self-exploration led to transformative coach training, career reflects seeking value and ethics in work.
20:45 As an advisor, I emphasise thorough analysis and considering perspectives, even in ambiguous situations. Making tough choices requires a clear understanding of personal values and desired legacy.
23:50 Preference for snow metaphors in different cultures. Understand others' challenges and priorities for true understanding.
27:02 Global South is motivated to correct and engage with the world, while Europe may have a gap between belief and action regarding diversity and inclusion.
35:41 Being mindful and inclusive is challenging due to familiarity and biases, affecting diversity and attrition in leadership roles.
37:52 Encourage diverse opinions in decision-making, support unpopular choices, and involve quieter voices. Reverse mentoring gaining popularity.
46:09 Diversity priorities vary globally. Racism differs by region.
52:19 People fear consequences of speaking out at work.
56:54 Diversity, inclusivity, safety, and belonging are key for psychological well-being in relationships.
01:00:25 Reflection on evolution, belonging, and pursuing passion.
01:07:48 Importance of rigour in thoughtful responses over mindless reactions.
01:09:48 Seeking magical guest for 100th episode. Feedback welcome. Contact jo.lockwood@seechangehapen.co.uk. Hosted by Joanne Lockwood.
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 Diverse perspectives vital for broader understanding. Avoid bias.
05:53 Diverse perspectives and energies are essential.
14:37 Deep personal exploration shapes career, ethical empowerment.
20:45 Consider all angles, then make a choice.
23:50 Importance of understanding local nuances and challenges.
27:02 Global South motivated for change, European hesitation.
35:41 Challenging to be mindful in diverse settings.
37:52 Encourage all to share, value diverse perspectives.
46:09 Different global regions have varied DEI priorities.
52:19 Workplace compliance and risk affect whistleblowers' actions.
56:54 Diversity, inclusion, and safety create belonging.
01:00:25 Evolved thinking, belonging, empowered choices, love doing.
01:07:48 Rigour and thoughtful response are essential.
01:09:48 Seeking magical guest for upcoming 100th episode.
Episode Tags
diversity, inclusion, global work, workplace culture, leadership, decision-making, belonging, cultural differences, psychological safety, mindful conversations
A Subtitle - A Single Sentence describing this episode
In this episode, Joanne Lockwood and guest Kaumudi Goda navigate the complex landscape of global DEIB work, emphasizing the importance of active listening and non-judgmental understanding in promoting diversity and inclusion.
Episode Summary with Intro, Key Points and a Takeaway
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, host Joanne Lockwood delves into the complex and nuanced world of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) with guest Kaumudi Goda, a Leadership Consultant, Executive Coach, and DEIB Strategist.
Together, they explore the challenges of global DEIB work and the necessity of engaging in conversations without judgement or preconceived notions. They discuss the impact of cultural differences on communication and inclusivity, drawing from their experiences in various countries across the US, Asia, and Europe. The episode highlights the importance of creating spaces in the workplace where employees feel psychologically safe, allowing them to bring their whole selves to work without the need for masking or code-switching.
Kaumudi and Joanne also share insights on the significance of diverse voices and the need to hold space for different truths. They emphasise the importance of making training and policies relevant to individuals' contexts and needs, rather than following blanket approaches. They explore the implications of speaking out against wrongdoing in the workplace, the challenges of leadership in diverse environments, and the impact of biases on in-the-moment decisions.
The episode wraps up with a powerful takeaway about the need to listen, learn, and engage in thoughtful, inclusive conversations. It encourages listeners to subscribe to The Inclusion Bites Podcast and sets the stage for future thought-provoking discussions on inclusion and belonging.
Tune in to this episode for a deep and insightful exploration of global DEIB work, cultural nuances, and the pursuit of psychological safety in the workplace.
💬 Keywords
work culture, personal safety, decision-making, speaking out, catastrophic failures, psychological safety, leadership, inclusion, belonging, biases, peace, colonialism impact, systemic support, privilege, DEIB, code switching, psychological safety, career journey, decision-making, unconscious behaviours, accountability, commitment, cultural differences, communication, embracing complexity, cultural immersion, psychological safety, belonging, systems and processes, negative perspectives, healthy boundaries
💡 Speaker bios
Kaumudi Goda has always felt like she didn't quite fit in, whether it was as a young girl in a patriarchal culture in South India or as a young professional in bustling New York City. After spending a decade in Manhattan, she came to the realization that everyone is seeking a sense of community and validation, wanting to feel seen, heard, understood, and accepted. She understands the universal human emotion of feeling alone and wanting to connect, and she is inspired to help others realize that they are not alone in their struggles. Her sensitivity and perspective are informed by her own experiences of feeling like an island in a sea of worry, and she is passionate about creating connections and understanding among people.
❇️ Key topics and bullets
Cultural Approaches to Work Culture
Varying work cultures across different countries (Singapore, Indonesia, Netherlands)
Importance of making training and policies relevant to individual contexts
Implications of biases on in-the-moment decisions
Challenges of Speaking Out in the Workplace
Risks and consequences for individuals speaking out against wrongdoing
Examples of catastrophic failures due to suppressed concerns and voices
Creating a Culture of Psychological Safety
Importance of creating a culture where people feel safe to have difficult conversations
The distinction between inclusion and belonging
Challenging Biases and Developing Informed Opinions
Importance of reading critical views to form personal opinions
The need to listen to perspectives and challenge biases
Impact of Colonialism
The impact of colonialism on the Global South and Global North perspectives
Recognizing Systemic Support, Power, and Privilege
The impact of invisible systemic support, power, and privilege on individuals
Challenges in getting people with power and privilege to recognize inclusivity and diversity
Code Switching and Masking in the Workplace
Explanation of code switching and masking in the workplace
Importance of creating spaces where employees don't have to mask or code switch
Importance of Psychological Safety
How psychological safety is crucial for employees to feel comfortable and connect at work
The need for inclusive decision-making and support for unpopular choices
Personal Journeys and Motivations
Guest's career journey from lawyer to DEIB strategist
Host's experience transitioning to embracing the human factor in the workplace
Challenges of DEIB Work Across Different Countries
The nuanced nature of language and connotations in the DEIB world
Observations about conversations around DEI in the US, Asia, and Europe
Belonging and Making Choices Based on Values
Factors contributing to a sense of belonging, including diversity and inclusivity
Embracing complexity and finding collaborative solutions to wicked problems
Maintaining Healthy Boundaries with Differing Perspectives
Dealing with negativity and differing perspectives within the workplace
This sequence summarizes the range of topics covered in the text, highlighting the various aspects of diversity, equity, and inclusion discussed during the podcast conversation.
🗞️ Newsletter
Subject: New Episode Alert: Conversations Beyond Borders
Dear Inclusion Bites Podcast Community,
We are delighted to announce the release of a thought-provoking new episode of the Inclusion Bites Podcast, entitled "Conversations Beyond Borders." In this illuminating discussion, our host, Joanne Lockwood, is joined by the esteemed Leadership Consultant, Executive Coach, and DEIB Strategist, Kaumudi Goda, as they delve into the complexities of fostering inclusion and belonging in a global context.
In this episode, Joanne and Kaumudi explore the impact of cultural differences on workplace communication and inclusivity, highlighting the importance of understanding diverse perspectives and psychological safety. They also discuss the challenges of navigating conversations around diversity, equity, and inclusion in different regions, from the US to Asia to Europe.
The conversation goes beyond traditional boundaries, uncovering the importance of creating spaces where employees feel comfortable bringing their whole selves to work and the need for inclusive decision-making. Joanne and Kaumudi share their personal experiences and insights, addressing the complexities of global DEIB work and the value of listening without judgement.
Additionally, Joanne touches on her own personal evolution in thinking, emphasizing the concept of belonging and the significance of making choices based on what one loves. She also provides valuable insights into dealing with negativity and trans critical views, demonstrating the importance of maintaining healthy boundaries while processing differing perspectives.
This episode offers a wealth of wisdom and actionable strategies for creating cultures of inclusion, embracing diversity, and fostering a sense of belonging in the workplace. We invite you to join us in this enlightening conversation by tuning in to the latest episode of the Inclusion Bites Podcast.
Subscribe now to stay updated on our latest episodes, and don't miss out on the opportunity to gain valuable insights from our future guests.
Thank you for being a part of the Inclusion Bites Podcast community. Your support and engagement empower us to continue these essential conversations.
Warm regards,
The Inclusion Bites Podcast Team
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Questions Asked that were insightful
During the interview, there were several thought-provoking questions that elicited insightful responses. Here are a few potential FAQs inspired by the interview:
How can cultural differences impact communication and inclusivity in the workplace?
What are some key factors contributing to a sense of belonging in a diverse environment?
How can leaders support unpopular choices to encourage quieter voices to speak up?
What are the challenges and priorities in diversity, equity, and inclusion work across different countries?
How does the need for inclusivity and curiosity for other perspectives vary in different regions, such as the US, Asia, and Europe?
These questions and the corresponding responses can form the basis for engaging and informative FAQs for our audience, and further delve into the complex and dynamic nature of diversity, equity, and inclusion in a global context.
Pain Points and Challenges
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, the conversation centred around the challenges and complexities of diversity, equity, and inclusion work across different cultural and organisational contexts. Some specific pain points and challenges discussed include:
The impact of biases on in-the-moment decisions and the lack of luxury for everyone to engage in slow thinking processes.
The implications of speaking out against wrongdoing in the workplace, considering the risks and consequences for individuals.
The importance of psychological safety for employees to feel comfortable, be curious, learn, and connect with others at work.
The challenge of getting people with power and privilege to recognise and have conversations about inclusivity and diversity.
The prevalence of a specific personality type as a leader in the corporate world and the impact on introverted individuals.
The need for leaders to support unpopular choices to encourage quieter voices to speak up in inclusive decision-making.
The exhaustion of trying to enlighten those who may not want to understand diversity, equity, and inclusion issues.
The impact of dismissive attitudes towards newcomers in leadership positions and the importance of mindfulness in words and actions.
The differences in priorities and challenges in DEI work across different countries, including the nuanced nature of language and connotations.
To address these challenges, the podcast emphasises the need for:
Creating a culture of psychological safety where employees feel comfortable to speak up, share their perspectives, and challenge biases without fear of reprisal.
Empowering leaders to listen actively, challenge their own biases, and support diverse voices in decision-making processes, fostering an inclusive environment.
Promoting self-awareness and mindfulness in words and actions to create a workplace culture where all individuals can bring their whole selves to work without the need for masking or code switching.
Embracing complexity and finding collaborative solutions to wicked problems, recognising that inclusivity is a multifaceted issue that requires diverse perspectives and intentions.
The podcast provides a platform for honest discussions about these challenges, encouraging listeners to consider the impact of biases, the importance of psychological safety, and the complexities of DEI work. By addressing these pain points and challenges head-on, the podcast aims to foster understanding, empathy, and actionable solutions for creating inclusive and equitable workplaces.
Listeners are encouraged to subscribe to The Inclusion Bites Podcast to continue engaging in conversations about diversity, equity, and inclusion, and to stay informed about future guests and discussions.
Blog article based on the episode
Title: Embracing Diversity Beyond Borders: Lessons from Conversations of Inclusion
Open your mind and join me in a journey of understanding the complexities of diversity, equity, and inclusion in the global workplace. In a recent episode titled "Conversations Beyond Borders" on The Inclusion Bites Podcast, hosted by Joanne Lockwood, the conversation dove deep into the challenges of global Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging (DEIB) work. Special guest Kaumudi Goda, a Leadership Consultant, Executive Coach, and DEIB Strategist, brought insightful perspectives to the discussion, serving as a powerful source of inspiration for navigating the complex landscape of workplace inclusion.
The episode highlighted crucial insights into the challenges and opportunities that come with embracing diversity and fostering inclusion on a global scale. One of the central themes of the discussion was the critical need to listen without judgment, to understand perspectives, and to embrace the complexities of diversity.
Kaumudi Goda emphasized the significance of taking a rigorous and thoughtful approach to complex problems, rather than resorting to mindless reactions. With this in mind, let's delve into the pressing issues and actionable steps individuals and organisations can take to foster a more inclusive workplace culture that transcends borders.
Recognizing the Problem:
One of the key challenges discussed in the episode was the impact of cultural differences on communication, inclusivity, and decision-making. The conversation shed light on the different work cultures seen in various countries, such as Singapore's emphasis on hard work, Indonesia's communal approach, and the Netherlands' individualistic mindset. Understanding and navigating these diverse work cultures is essential for inclusive leadership and effective collaboration.
Another pressing issue highlighted was the need to create spaces where employees don't have to mask or code-switch to fit into the workplace culture. The concept of psychological safety emerged as a crucial factor in promoting an inclusive workplace where employees feel comfortable, can be curious, learn, and connect with others. Recognizing the impact of biases on in-the-moment decisions and understanding the lack of luxury for everyone to engage in slow thinking processes were also crucial takeaways.
Highlighting Actionable Items:
In light of these challenges, it becomes evident that actionable steps are necessary to foster inclusivity and belonging in the workplace. Here are some actionable items inspired by the insightful conversation on the Inclusion Bites Podcast:
Create Relevant Policies and Training: Acknowledge the importance of making training and policies relevant to individuals' contexts and needs, especially in terms of personal safety and decision-making. Blanket approaches often fall short of addressing the specific needs of diverse individuals and communities.
Embrace Self-Awareness and Understanding: Recognize the significance of self-awareness and understanding in shaping workplace culture, from both an individual and leadership perspective. Seeking deeper reflection and self-discovery can lead to a deeper understanding of diverse perspectives and experiences.
Foster Psychological Safety: Work towards creating a culture where people feel psychologically safe to speak up and have difficult conversations. Encouraging employees to bring their whole selves to work, without fear of judgment or retaliation, is essential for building a culture of trust and inclusivity.
Finish with a Call to Action:
As we conclude, let's heed Joanne Lockwood's encouragement to subscribe to the Inclusion Bites Podcast and embrace a future where meaningful conversations beyond borders lead to real change. Let's carry the wisdom of Kaumudi Goda's insights with us, and remember the importance of embracing diversity of thought, experience, and identity in our pursuit of inclusive workplaces.
Let's challenge ourselves to listen without judgment, to seek understanding versus reaction, and to work towards fostering workplace environments where everyone feels a sense of belonging. As we navigate the complexities of global DEIB work, let's embrace the power of diversity beyond borders and commit to meaningful action that transforms our workplaces for the better. Join me in this journey of inclusion and let's bring change beyond borders.
The episode titled "Conversations Beyond Borders" on the Inclusion Bites Podcast serves as a powerful reminder of the importance of embracing diversity and fostering inclusion on a global scale. Let's carry the lessons learned from this insightful conversation forward, and let's strive to create workplaces that truly embrace diversity, equity, and inclusion.
The standout line from this episode
"The importance of self-awareness and understanding in shaping workplace culture cannot be overstated."
❓ Questions
How can colonial legacies and different historical perspectives impact conversations about inclusion and belonging in today's global society?
In what ways can cultural differences shape communication, decision-making, and inclusivity in the workplace?
What are the challenges of embracing diversity and fostering psychological safety for employees in different regions, such as the US, Asia, and Europe?
How can leaders effectively create spaces where employees feel psychologically safe to bring their whole selves to work and speak up?
What are the implications of dismissive attitudes towards newcomers in leadership positions, and how can mindfulness and compassion play a role in addressing this issue?
How can leaders support inclusive decision-making and encourage quieter voices to be heard, especially in the face of unpopular choices?
What are the potential risks and consequences for individuals who speak out against wrongdoing in the workplace, and how can organisations create a culture of psychological safety where speaking up is encouraged?
How do cultural differences and historical perspectives influence the understanding of diversity, equity, and inclusion, and the priorities and challenges in DEI work across different countries?
What strategies can organisations implement to create relevant and tailored training and policies that cater to the varying contexts and needs of individuals in different regions?
How can individuals and organisations navigate the complexities of inclusivity and embrace differing perspectives while avoiding judgement and remaining committed to the cause of diversity and inclusion?
FAQs from the Episode
Title: Conversations Beyond Borders - Inclusion Bites Podcast FAQ
Q: What are some examples of different work cultures around the world?
A: In this episode, we discuss various work cultures, such as Singapore's emphasis on hard work, Indonesia's communal approach, and the Netherlands' individualistic mindset.
Q: What is the importance of tailoring training and policies to individual contexts in the workplace?
A: It is crucial to make training and policies relevant to individuals' contexts and needs, especially in terms of personal safety and decision-making, instead of adopting blanket approaches.
Q: How does bias impact in-the-moment decisions in the workplace?
A: We explore the impact of biases on in-the-moment decisions and the lack of luxury for everyone to engage in slow thinking processes, highlighting the need to challenge biases and focus on peace and resolution.
Q: What are the implications of speaking out against wrongdoing in the workplace?
A: Discussing the risks and consequences for individuals, we emphasize the importance of creating a culture where people feel psychologically safe to speak up and have difficult conversations.
Q: How can leaders promote inclusivity and diversity in decision-making?
A: Our guests stress the importance of mindful decision-making, inclusive conversations, and supporting unpopular choices to encourage quieter voices to speak up.
Q: What is the significance of creating spaces where employees don't have to mask or code switch in the workplace?
A: We highlight the importance of psychological safety for employees to bring their whole selves to work, be curious, learn, and connect with others without the need to alter themselves.
Q: How can leaders navigate DEI work across different countries and cultures?
A: We discuss the differing priorities and challenges in DEI work across different countries, including the nuanced nature of language and connotations in the DEI world.
Q: What is the impact of colonialism on the Global South and Global North perspectives?
A: Host Joanne Lockwood examines the impact of colonialism on the Global South and discusses her efforts to research the crisis in Israel and Palestine to form an informed opinion on peace.
Q: How can leaders promote belonging and inclusivity in the workplace?
A: We explore the need for systems and processes that encourage and reward individuals in creating a sense of belonging, diversity, and inclusivity in the workplace.
Q: How can individuals navigate differing perspectives and maintain healthy boundaries in discussions around diversity and inclusion?
A: Joanne Lockwood shares her experience of dealing with negativity and differing perspectives, emphasizing the need to remain committed to the cause and maintain healthy boundaries while processing differing viewpoints.
Remember to subscribe to the Inclusion Bites Podcast for more thought-provoking conversations and insights on diversity, equity, and inclusion.
Tell me more about the guest and their views
Kaumudi Goda, the guest on the Inclusion Bites Podcast, is a Leadership Consultant, Executive Coach, and DEIB Strategist. She brings a wealth of experience and insights to the discussion about diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. Kaumudi emphasises the need for a rigorous and thoughtful approach to complex problems, rather than mindless reactions. She also places great importance on taking time to think through situations and not feeling pressured to respond immediately.
In the conversation, Kaumudi discusses the impact of dismissive attitudes towards newcomers in leadership positions and highlights the significance of mindfulness in both words and actions. She also explores the challenges of getting people with power and privilege to recognise and engage in conversations about inclusivity and diversity.
Overall, Kaumudi's views add depth to the conversation, offering valuable perspectives on embracing diversity, creating inclusive spaces, and the importance of mindful and thoughtful approaches to leadership and decision-making.
Ideas for Future Training and Workshops based on this Episode
"Cultural Fluency in the Workplace" Workshop: This workshop can explore the impact of cultural differences on communication, decision-making, and inclusivity in the workplace. It can focus on developing strategies to navigate and embrace cultural diversity, fostering a more inclusive environment.
"Unconscious Bias and Decision-Making" Training: This training can delve into the impact of biases on in-the-moment decisions and the importance of slow thinking processes. It can provide tools and techniques to recognise and address unconscious biases in the workplace.
"Psychological Safety and Inclusive Leadership" Workshop: This workshop can focus on creating a culture of psychological safety where employees feel comfortable to speak up, be curious, and connect with others. It can emphasize the role of inclusive leadership in fostering such an environment.
"Belonging in the Workplace" Training: This training can explore the distinction between inclusion and belonging, and focus on creating systems and processes that encourage and reward individuals to be their authentic selves and speak up. It can also address the impacts of systems of power and privilege on individual experiences of belonging.
"Empathy and Mindful Communication" Workshop: This workshop can provide tools and techniques for mindful communication and active listening, emphasizing the value of understanding others' perspectives and embracing diversity in the workplace.
"Managing Cultural Differences in Global Teams" Training: This training can address the challenges of working in diverse global teams and provide strategies for effective communication, collaboration, and decision-making across different cultural contexts.
These ideas can serve as the basis for creating tailored training and workshops that address the complexities of diversity and inclusion in the workplace, drawing on the themes and insights discussed in the episode.
🪡 Threads by Instagram
Post 1:
Dive into the complexities of global diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) work on the Inclusion Bites podcast. Joanne Lockwood and Kaumudi Goda share their insights on embracing diverse perspectives.
Post 2:
Untangle the complexities of cultural immersion with Joanne Lockwood's experiences of extensive travel on the Inclusion Bites podcast. Gain a deeper understanding of the impact of cultural differences on communication and inclusivity.
Post 3:
Listen to the Inclusion Bites podcast to explore the necessity of feeling psychologically safe to speak up in the workplace. Kaumudi Goda highlights the importance of creating systems and processes that encourage and reward individuals.
Post 4:
Discover the challenges of navigating differing priorities and challenges in DEI work across different countries. Joanne Lockwood and Kaumudi Goda unpack the nuanced nature of language and connotations in the DEI world.
Post 5:
Explore the importance of embracing complexity and finding collaborative solutions to wicked problems on the Inclusion Bites podcast. Join Joanne Lockwood and Kaumudi Goda as they delve into the significance of values, decision-making, and leadership in the DEI space.
Leadership Insights - YouTube Short Video Script on Common Problems for Leaders to Address
Title: Navigating Inclusivity: Leadership Insights
[Opening shot of a workplace environment]
Narrator: "Welcome to Leadership Insights, where we explore real-world challenges and offer actionable solutions for today's leaders."
[Cut to a shot of a diverse team in discussion]
Narrator: "Today, we're addressing a common problem faced by leaders in global Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging (DEIB) work: the need to listen without judgement."
[Cut to a shot of a leader in a reflective pose]
Narrator: "Leaders often encounter diverse perspectives and experiences within their teams. It can be challenging to navigate these differences and ensure that everyone feels heard and valued."
[Cut to a shot of a leader actively listening to an employee]
Narrator: "So, what can leaders do to create a more inclusive environment? Here are some clear actions and behaviours that will result in a positive outcome."
[Text on screen: "Action 1: Practice Active Listening"]
Narrator: "First, practice active listening. Give your full attention to the speaker, show genuine interest, and ask clarifying questions without making assumptions."
[Text on screen: "Action 2: Embrace Diversity of Thought"]
Narrator: "Second, embrace diversity of thought. Recognize that different perspectives bring value. Encourage open discussions and consider all viewpoints, even if they differ from your own."
[Text on screen: "Action 3: Foster Psychological Safety"]
Narrator: "Third, foster psychological safety. Create an environment where team members feel safe to express themselves, take risks, and share their authentic selves without fear of repercussions."
[Cut to a shot of a diverse and inclusive team collaborating]
Narrator: "By actively listening, embracing diversity of thought, and fostering psychological safety, leaders can build a more inclusive workplace where every voice is valued. These actions not only benefit the team but also contribute to a positive company culture."
[Closing shot of the team in a group huddle]
Narrator: "Join us next time on Leadership Insights for more practical tips to enhance your leadership journey."
[Text on screen: "Subscribe to Leadership Insights for more leadership tips and insights"]
Narrator: "Remember, inclusivity starts with you."
[End of video]
SEO Optimised Titles
Navigating Global Diversity: Bridging Perspectives & Systems | Embracing Complexity | Psychological Safety Matters | Joanne @Inclusion Bites
Inclusive Decision Making: Amplifying Quieter Voices | Masking & Code Switching at Work | Mindfulness in Leadership | Kaumudi @The Human Conversation
Supporting Unpopular Choices for Inclusive Cultures | Challenging Bias in Decision Making | Creating Psychological Safety | Joanne @Inclusion Bites
Listicle with Image Recommendations
Title: 10 Insights from "Conversations Beyond Borders" on The Inclusion Bites Podcast
The Impact of Cultural Differences on Workplace Inclusivity
Curiosity: Exploring how diverse cultural backgrounds shape workplace dynamics and interactions.
Image Recommendations: Diverse international team in a meeting, cultural symbols representing different countries, global workplace environment.
The Challenge of Confronting Unconscious Biases in Decision-Making
Curiosity: Understanding how unconscious biases can influence workplace decisions and interactions.
Image Recommendations: Brain with a question mark, diverse group of people making decisions, cognitive bias concept.
Creating Psychological Safety to Encourage Authenticity at Work
Curiosity: Discovering how psychological safety cultivates an environment where employees feel comfortable being their authentic selves.
Image Recommendations: Supportive team environment, diverse group sharing ideas, positive workplace culture.
Embracing Diversity and Inclusion for a Sense of Belonging
Curiosity: Exploring ways to foster a sense of inclusion and belonging in the workplace.
Image Recommendations: Inclusive team working together, diverse group collaborating, inclusive workspace environment.
Navigating the Complexities of Decision-Making in Diverse Environments
Curiosity: Delving into the complexities of decision-making processes in diverse workplace settings.
Image Recommendations: Complex decision-making flowchart, diverse leadership team discussing, teamwork and collaboration.
The Influence of Power and Privilege on Workplace Dynamics
Curiosity: Investigating how power dynamics and privilege impact workplace interactions and perceptions.
Image Recommendations: Power dynamics concept, diverse group in a meeting, workplace hierarchy representation.
Challenging Conversations and Listening to Different Perspectives
Curiosity: Understanding the importance of engaging in challenging conversations and actively listening to diverse viewpoints.
Image Recommendations: Diverse group having discussion, active listening concept, open dialogue and communication.
Masking and Code Switching in the Workplace
Curiosity: Exploring the concept of masking and code switching and its impact on employee authenticity and well-being.
Image Recommendations: Masking as a concept, code switching in professional settings, workplace identity representation.
The Struggle of Fostering Inclusivity in Corporate Leadership
Curiosity: Examining the challenges of promoting inclusivity in corporate leadership and encouraging diverse voices to be heard.
Image Recommendations: Diverse leadership team, inclusive leadership environment, inclusive leadership concept.
The Need for Mindfulness and Self-Reflection in Tackling Workplace Challenges
Curiosity: Reflecting on the importance of mindfulness and self-awareness in navigating workplace complexities and fostering inclusivity.
Image Recommendations: Mindfulness and self-reflection concept, self-awareness in the workplace, reflective workplace environment.
These recommendations aim to capture the essence of the insights and invite curiosity with relevant and thought-provoking imagery.
Email Newsletter about this Podcast Episode
Subject: Unlocking Global Conversations on Diversity and Inclusion
Hey there,
Have you ever stopped to think about the impact of diverse cultures on workplace dynamics? In our latest episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood and our guest, Kaumudi Goda, take us on a journey through the complexities of global diversity, equity, and inclusion work.
Here are some highlights from the episode:
5 Keys You Will Learn:
The episode delves into the diverse work cultures of different countries, highlighting how these nuances shape the approaches to inclusivity and belonging.
Discussed the significance of creating psychological safety in the workplace, so everyone can be themselves and speak up without fear.
Unveiled the challenges of embracing diversity in a leadership role, with a focus on supporting quieter voices and fostering inclusive decision-making.
Unpacked the impact of cultural differences on communication and inclusivity, offering valuable insights for navigating global DEI work.
Explored the concept of self-awareness and its role in shaping workplace culture from both an individual and leadership perspective.
Unique Fact from the Episode:
Joanne Lockwood emphasises the importance of reading critical views to understand the world and form personal opinions. She shares her own experiences of researching the crisis in Israel and Palestine to form an informed opinion on peace.
Call to Action:
Join us in unlocking conversations beyond borders by subscribing to The Inclusion Bites Podcast. Let's embrace diversity and inclusion with open hearts and curious minds.
Finish Strong:
Don't miss out on this eye-opening episode! Tune in to The Inclusion Bites Podcast and be part of the global conversation on diversity and inclusion.
Here's to embracing diversity and fostering inclusivity across borders!
Warm regards,
[Your Name]
Potted Summary
Intro:
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, host Joanne Lockwood and guest Kaumudi Goda dive into the complexities of global diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging (DEIB) work. From the impact of cultural differences to the challenges of inclusive decision-making, they tackle the need to listen, understand, and avoid judgment in fostering diverse and inclusive work environments.
In this conversation we discuss:
👉 Cultural differences in communication
👉 Challenges of inclusive decision-making
👉 Fostering psychological safety
Here are a few of our favourite quotable moments:
"The need to listen to perspectives, challenge biases, and focus on peace and resolution."
"The importance of creating a culture where people feel psychologically safe to speak up and have difficult conversations."
"The significance of self-awareness and understanding in shaping workplace culture."
Summary:
Listen to Joanne Lockwood and Kaumudi Goda as they navigate the complexities of DEIB work, urging listeners to embrace diverse perspectives and foster inclusive environments. Tune in for insightful conversations that challenge biases and highlight the importance of psychological safety in the workplace. Don't miss this episode – subscribe to The Inclusion Bites Podcast for more thought-provoking discussions on diversity and inclusion.
LinkedIn Poll
LinkedIn Poll Question: How do you approach diversity and inclusion in the workplace? 🌍 #DEIB #Belonging
Listen, learn 🗣️ #GlobalDiversity
Embrace complexity 💡 #InclusiveCulture
Foster psychological safety 🛡️ #OpenConversations
Encourage diverse voices 🗣️ #Empowerment
Highlight the Importance of this topic on LinkedIn
🌍 As a Senior Leader in HR or an EDI Professional, I came across a thought-provoking podcast episode on The Inclusion Bites Podcast that delves into the complexities of global Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging work. 🎙️
The profound conversations about understanding diverse perspectives, embracing complexity, and creating psychologically safe spaces resonated deeply with me. 💬
This discussion is pivotal in shaping the future of our industry and profession, emphasising the need for attentive listening, cultural awareness, and inclusive leadership. 🌟
I urge my peers to lend an ear to this impactful episode and join the dialogue on fostering a more inclusive and equitable workplace. 🌐
#DiversityandInclusion #GlobalDEIWork #InclusiveLeadership #TheInclusionBitesPodcast
L&D Insights
In this podcast episode titled "Conversations Beyond Borders" on The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood and guest Kaumudi Goda offer key insights for Senior Leaders, HR, and EDI professionals in the global DEIB space. 🎙️
One "aha moment" centres on the need to understand diverse perspectives and cultural nuances in decision-making and leadership. They stress the importance of creating psychologically safe spaces where individuals feel comfortable and can bring their whole selves to work. 🌍
Another key takeaway is the significance of self-awareness, both at the individual and leadership levels, to shape more inclusive workplace cultures. This includes recognising the impact of systemic support, power, and privilege on individuals from non-dominant identities. 🤔
An important call to action based on this resource is for leaders to actively support unpopular choices and challenge biases in decision making. It's also crucial to be mindful of subtle, unconscious behaviours that may undermine inclusivity and to hold leaders accountable for their actions. 💼
Overall, Senior Leaders, HR, and EDI professionals should focus on embracing complexity and finding collaborative solutions to workplace challenges. They should also strive to create systems and processes that encourage and reward individuals to speak up and be themselves. #InclusionMatters #GlobalDiversity #LeadershipAwareness #PsychologicalSafety #EmbracingDiversity 🌐
Big Ideas from the Episode
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, host Joanne Lockwood and guest Kaumudi Goda delve into the complexities of diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging (DEIB) work on a global scale. They stress the significance of listening without judgment, embracing different perspectives, and understanding the challenges faced in fostering inclusivity and belonging in diverse environments. The episode emphasises the need for thoughtful and mindful approaches to complex issues, as well as the importance of creating spaces where individuals feel psychologically safe to be themselves and speak up. The conversation highlights the impact of cultural differences on communication and the challenges of navigating DEIB work across different countries. Ultimately, the episode advocates for a profound commitment to creating environments where everyone feels included and valued.
Glossary of Terms and Phrases
Certainly! Here are some concepts used in the episode related to diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) work that may not be commonly used:
Code switching - Altering one's manner of speaking, behaviour, or appearance to adapt to different cultural norms or settings, particularly in a professional environment.
Psychological safety - Creating an environment in which individuals feel comfortable sharing their thoughts, ideas, and concerns without fear of negative consequences, such as embarrassment or punishment.
Inclusive decision-making - Involving diverse perspectives and voices in the decision-making process to ensure that a variety of views are considered and valued.
Cognitive biases - In the context of the episode, this refers to unconscious mental shortcuts and patterns that impact decision-making, often leading to unintentional discrimination or exclusion.
Wicked problems - Complex and multifaceted issues that are challenging to solve due to their interconnected nature and the presence of multiple stakeholders with competing interests.
Mindfulness in words and actions - Being aware and deliberate in one's communication and behaviour, particularly in relation to inclusivity and respect for others.
These concepts are important in the context of DEI work and are discussed to highlight their significance in fostering an inclusive and supportive workplace environment.
SEO Optimised YouTube Content
Focus Keyword: Positive People Experiences
Video Title: Conversations Beyond Borders | #InclusionBitesPodcast
Tags: diversity, inclusion, belonging, workplace culture, leadership, decision-making, psychological safety, unconscious bias, coaching, complexity, DEI, conversations, culture change, understanding perspectives, mindfulness, global perspective, individualistic mindset, personal safety, leadership challenges, code switching, psychological safety, inclusive decision-making, embracing diversity, leadership inclusivity, workplace inclusivity, inclusive cultures
Killer Quote: "The impact of dismissive attitudes towards newcomers in a leadership position is significant, and mindfulness in words and actions is crucial." - Kaumudi Goda
Hashtags: #DiversityAndInclusion #BelongingAtWork #InclusiveLeadership #WorkplaceCulture #PsychologicalSafety #ConversationsMatter #DEIBStrategy #LeadershipChallenges #InclusiveDecisionMaking #EmbracingDiversity #DEIWork #InclusiveCultures
Why Listen:
Welcome to the latest episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, where we embark on a global journey of understanding and embracing diversity, inclusion, and belonging in the workplace. In "Conversations Beyond Borders," we dive into transformative dialogues about the complexities of culture change, leadership challenges, and fostering positive people experiences. Our guest, Kaumudi Goda, shares her insightful journey as a DEIB strategist and leadership consultant, weaving together her experiences and reflections with a masterful understanding of the human factor in the workplace. Join us as we explore the nuances of DEIB work across different countries, grasp the impact of dismissive attitudes on inclusivity, and unravel the importance of creating spaces where employees can bring their whole selves to work. Through our engaging discussion, we uncover the significance of embracing complexity and finding collaborative solutions, whilst highlighting the need for inclusive decision-making and psychological safety. Get ready to be inspired by this thought-provoking episode and gain valuable insights into building inclusive cultures and fostering positive people experiences.
Closing Summary and Call to Action:
Embrace the complexity of workplace challenges and seek collaborative solutions.
Foster inclusive decision-making to encourage diverse voices and perspectives.
Prioritize psychological safety to create spaces where employees can be their authentic selves.
Recognize the impact of dismissive attitudes on newcomers in leadership positions and practice mindfulness in words and actions.
Embrace diversity, inclusivity, and belonging to drive positive people experiences and culture change.
Challenge unconscious biases and hold leaders accountable for their inclusivity efforts.
Stay committed to the cause of diversity, equity, and inclusion, and remain open to different perspectives and truths.
Remember to subscribe to The Inclusion Bites Podcast for more enriching conversations with impactful guests and diverse insights.
Take action today to create inclusive workplaces that foster belonging and celebrate diversity at every level.
Outro:
Thank you for tuning in to this deep dive into conversations beyond borders. For more valuable insights and thought-provoking discussions, be sure to like and subscribe to The Inclusion Bites Podcast. Explore more resources and information on diversity, inclusion, and belonging on the SEE Change Happen website at https://seechangehappen.co.uk. Don't miss out on our diverse range of episodes, and join us in championing positive people experiences in workplace culture. Stay curious, stay kind, and stay inclusive - Joanne Lockwood
Root Cause Analyst - Why!
The key problems related to this episode include:
Challenges of global Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging (DEIB) work.
The need to listen and avoid judgment in conversations about diversity and inclusion.
Why is there a challenge in global DEIB work?
Because there is a lack of understanding and awareness of cultural nuances and differences in various regions.
Why is there a lack of understanding and awareness of cultural nuances and differences in various regions?Because DEIB strategies are often developed without proper consultation with local stakeholders or an in-depth understanding of local contexts and histories.
Why are DEIB strategies developed without proper consultation with local stakeholders or an in-depth understanding of local contexts and histories?Because there is a tendency to adopt blanket approaches and solutions based on generalised knowledge, rather than taking the time to truly understand and appreciate the specific needs and challenges of each region.
Why is there a tendency to adopt blanket approaches and solutions based on generalised knowledge?Because of a lack of cultural intelligence, empathy, and a deep understanding of the historical and sociopolitical contexts of different regions.
Summarised findings:
The root cause of the challenges in global DEIB work lies in the lack of understanding and awareness of cultural nuances and differences in various regions, leading to the use of blanket approaches based on generalised knowledge. This highlights a lack of cultural intelligence, empathy, and deep understanding of historical and sociopolitical contexts in the development of DEIB strategies.
Potential solutions:
Conduct in-depth research and engage in meaningful dialogue with local stakeholders to understand the specific needs and challenges of each region.
Incorporate cultural intelligence training and awareness programmes for those involved in developing and implementing DEIB strategies.
Develop customised DEIB approaches that consider the historical and sociopolitical contexts of different regions.
Foster a culture of empathy, openness, and understanding within the DEIB community to ensure that diverse perspectives are valued and integrated into the development of strategies.
TikTok/Reels/Shorts Video Summary
Focus Keyword: Positive People Experiences
Title: Cultivating Positive People Experiences | #InclusionBitesPodcast
Tags: Diversity, Inclusion, Belonging, Workplace Culture, DEIB, Diversity Matters, Equality, Change Management, Leadership, Employee Engagement, Positive Environment, Employee Wellbeing, Respect, Compassion, Cultural Awareness, Mindfulness, Teamwork, Positive Experiences, Culture Change, #DiversityandInclusion, #BelongingMatters, #ChangeManagement, #LeadershipMatters, #PositiveEnvironments
Killer Quote: "Embracing complexity and finding collaborative solutions to wicked problems" - Kaumudi Goda
Hashtags: #DiversityandInclusion #BelongingMatters #ChangeManagement #LeadershipMatters #PositiveEnvironments #CultureChange #InclusionBitesPodcast #WorkplaceCulture #DEIB #ListeningSkills #CulturalAwareness #EmpathyMatters #PsychologicalSafety #StayCurious #StayInclusive
Summary Description:
In this thought-provoking episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Kaumudi Goda and I delve into the importance of embracing diverse perspectives, supporting inclusivity, and driving culture change in the workplace. We discuss the significance of Positive People Experiences and how they shape organisational dynamics, highlighting the need for mindful, inclusive decision-making. Join us to explore how understanding and valuing individual experiences can drive positive culture change, fostering an environment where everyone feels empowered to find their voice and contribute authentically. Let’s take the necessary steps towards creating workplaces where diversity, equity, and inclusion truly matter. Tune in for engaging conversations that will inspire you to influence positive change in your own professional sphere! Listen now to gain key insights on cultivating Positive People Experiences.
Outro:
Thank you for tuning in! For more enriching content and insightful discussions, remember to like and subscribe to #InclusionBitesPodcast. Find more information on our website: SEE Change Happen - https://seechangehappen.co.uk. Stay curious, stay kind, and stay inclusive - Joanne Lockwood
Canva Slider Checklist
Checklist Item |
|---|
Embracing Global Perspectives |
Cultivating Psychological Safety |
Fostering Inclusive Decision-Making |
Creating Psychological Safety |
Nurturing Belonging in the Workplace |
Opening slide: "Global Inclusion Best Practices: Embrace diverse perspectives, cultivate psychological safety, foster inclusive decision-making, create psychological safety, and nurture belonging in the workplace."
Closing slide: "Contact Joanne Lockwood at SEE Change Happen for expert guidance on global inclusion strategies. Visit https://seechangehappen.co.uk to learn more."
6 major topics
Title: Navigating Global Diversity and Inclusion: Conversations Beyond Borders
Introduction:
In my recent enlightening discussion with Kaumudi Goda, the topic of global diversity and inclusion sparked a wealth of thought-provoking conversations, delving into the complexity of DEIB work across different countries and cultures. Together, we explored the nuances of communication, the importance of psychological safety, and the challenges of embracing diverse perspectives in the corporate world.
Understanding Cultural Differences and Work Culture
The complexities of navigating diversity in the workplace across cultural borders are extensive. We dissected various work cultures, from Singapore's emphasis on hard work to Indonesia's communal approach and the Netherlands' individualistic mindset. It's fascinating to consider how these cultural differences manifest in the corporate world and influence the way individuals approach their professional lives.
Exploring Bias, Decision-making, and Speaking Out
The impact of biases on in-the-moment decisions and the lack of luxury for everyone to engage in slow thinking processes is a critical topic that emerged. It's crucial to consider the implications of speaking out against wrongdoing in the workplace, and the risks and consequences for individuals who take a stand for what they believe is right. How can we create an environment where people feel psychologically safe to speak up and have difficult conversations in such situations?
Belonging and Inclusivity in the Workplace
In our discussion, we reflected on the clear distinction between inclusion and belonging, and explored ways to foster a sense of belonging in the workplace. It's imperative to create spaces that allow employees to bring their whole selves to work, without feeling the need to mask or code switch in order to fit into the workplace culture. How can organisations better cultivate a sense of belonging for every individual, regardless of their background or identity?
Mindful Decision-making and Leadership Accountability
Kaumudi and I delved into the importance of taking the time to think through complex situations, resisting the pressure to respond immediately, and avoiding mindless reactions. Additionally, the significance of inclusive decision-making and holding leaders accountable for their actions were crucial aspects of our conversation. How can leaders support unpopular choices to encourage quieter voices to speak up and contribute to meaningful dialogue?
Global Perspectives and Personal Evolution
The challenges of DEI work across different countries, including the nuanced nature of language and connotations, were insightful topics explored. We also touched on observing conversations around diversity, equity, and inclusion in the US, Asia, and Europe, noting the potential block between knowing and doing in Europe in terms of inclusivity and curiosity for other perspectives. How can we bridge the gap between understanding and action in our quest for inclusivity and diversity?
The Human Experience and Self-discovery
We delved into the personal journeys that have shaped our perspectives, discussing the significance of values in decision-making, leadership, and our commitment to the DEIB cause. The impact of extensive travel and cultural immersion added a layer of depth to our exchange, emphasizing the importance of understanding people's challenges and priorities, particularly when influenced by cultural differences. What personal experiences have shaped your understanding of diversity and inclusion, and how has it influenced your outlook as a leader in the workplace?
Closing Thoughts
The conversation with Kaumudi Goda has truly been eye-opening, shedding light on the multifaceted nature of navigating global diversity and inclusion beyond borders. Embracing diverse perspectives, creating psychological safety, and fostering a sense of belonging in the workplace are pivotal in the journey towards genuine inclusivity. I encourage you to continue exploring these important topics and remain open to the profound impact of DEIB work within your own spheres of influence.
Slogans and Image Prompts
Slogan: "Embrace Complexity, Foster Belonging"
AI Image Generation Prompt: Create a design of a diverse group of individuals standing together, each representing a different culture and background, with the slogan "Embrace Complexity, Foster Belonging" prominently displayed in the background.
Soundbite/Quote: "Listen Beyond Borders, Lead with Empathy"
AI Image Generation Prompt: Generate an image of a leader in a diverse workplace setting, actively listening to team members from different cultural backgrounds, with the quote "Listen Beyond Borders, Lead with Empathy" integrated into the design.
Slogan: "Inclusion Bites: Bite into Diversity"
AI Image Generation Prompt: Create a visually striking image with a bite taken out of a globe, symbolizing the podcast's name "Inclusion Bites: Bite into Diversity", and incorporating visuals of various cultural elements and diversity.
Soundbite/Quote: "Cultivate Curiosity, Champion Diversity"
AI Image Generation Prompt: Design an eye-catching illustration of a magnifying glass uncovering diverse cultural symbols, with the impactful quote "Cultivate Curiosity, Champion Diversity" incorporated in an artistic typography.
Slogan: "United in Diversity, Empowered by Inclusion"
AI Image Generation Prompt: Generate an image featuring people from different backgrounds coming together in solidarity, with the empowering slogan "United in Diversity, Empowered by Inclusion" highlighted in bold, vibrant colours.
Soundbite/Quote: "Courage to Speak, Space to Belong"
AI Image Generation Prompt: Design an illustration showing diverse individuals expressing themselves, with the quote "Courage to Speak, Space to Belong" displayed prominently, conveying the essence of empowerment and inclusivity.
Slogan: "Celebrating Differences, Building Unity"
AI Image Generation Prompt: Create a design showcasing a mosaic of diverse cultural elements coming together to form a cohesive whole, accompanied by the uplifting slogan "Celebrating Differences, Building Unity."
Soundbite/Quote: "Every Voice Matters, Every Perspective Counts"
AI Image Generation Prompt: Generate an image featuring an array of colourful speech bubbles, each representing a different perspective, with the impactful quote "Every Voice Matters, Every Perspective Counts" incorporated in a visually impactful way.
These slogans, soundbites, and quotes can be used on various merchandise to promote the podcast, encourage inclusivity, and celebrate diversity.
The Hook
"Uncover the Secret to Breaking Down Barriers and Fostering Inclusion in the Workplace - It's Time to Think Beyond Borders!"
"Discover How to Create a Culture of Belonging in Your Organisation - Let's Explore the Power of Inclusive Conversations!"
"Find Out How to Cultivate Psychological Safety and Embrace Diversity Like Never Before - The Transformation Begins Here!"
"Attention Entrepreneurs! Elevate Your Leadership Skills by Embracing Inclusivity and Diversity - Let's Dive Deeper into Inclusive Conversations!"
"Unlock the Pathway to Creating a Diverse and Inclusive Workplace - Let's Start Having Conversations That Truly Matter!"
Guest's content for their marketing
As a writer for the Inclusion Bites Podcast, I can certainly help you craft a compelling piece for your marketing purposes. Here's a draft for you to consider:
Title: Embracing Diversity and Inclusion: A Conversation Beyond Borders with Kaumudi Goda
We are delighted to share an insightful and thought-provoking conversation that took place on the latest episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast. We had the pleasure of hosting Kaumudi Goda, a renowned Leadership Consultant, Executive Coach, and DEIB Strategist.
In this engaging episode, Kaumudi joined host Joanne Lockwood in a candid discussion about embracing diversity and inclusion beyond borders. As a guest, Kaumudi shared her wealth of experience and expertise, offering unique perspectives on the challenges and opportunities in the global landscape of diversity, equity, and inclusion.
From the impact of cultural differences on communication and inclusivity to the importance of feeling safe to be oneself and to speak up, Kaumudi's insights were both enlightening and enriching. Her emphasis on the need for systems and processes that encourage and reward individuals resonated deeply with our audience, inspiring a renewed commitment to creating inclusive environments.
Throughout the episode, Kaumudi's ability to navigate complex topics and provide valuable guidance was nothing short of remarkable. Her expertise in addressing the nuances of DEIB work across different countries left a lasting impression, leaving listeners with a newfound perspective on the challenges and the beauty of diversity and inclusion.
We invite you to listen to the episode and immerse yourself in the enriching dialogue between Kaumudi and Joanne. Discover the power of embracing diverse voices, holding space for different truths, and the challenges of leadership in diverse environments.
Join us in celebrating Kaumudi Goda's unwavering commitment to driving positive change and fostering inclusive cultures. We are grateful for her invaluable contribution to The Inclusion Bites Podcast, and we look forward to continuing the conversation on diversity and inclusion beyond borders.
Thank you, Kaumudi Goda, for sharing your wisdom and insights with our global audience, and for being a champion for diversity, equity, and inclusion. Your voice is a beacon of hope for a more inclusive world, and we are truly honoured to have had you as our esteemed guest.
I hope this draft helps you showcase your episode as a guest on The Inclusion Bites Podcast effectively! Let me know if you need any further assistance.
Guest's content for their marketing
As a guest on The Inclusion Bites Podcast with Joanne Lockwood, I had the incredible opportunity to engage in meaningful conversations about diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. This podcast provided a platform for me to share my insights as a Leadership Consultant, Executive Coach, and DEIB Strategist, and to discuss the challenges and importance of conversations beyond borders in the context of workplace culture.
During my appearance on the podcast, we delved into the complex dynamics of workplace inclusivity in diverse environments, the impact of cultural differences on communication, and the factors contributing to a sense of belonging. We explored the significance of feeling safe to be oneself and to speak up, and the need for systems and processes that encourage and reward individuals.
The podcast also allowed me to share my personal journey from a career in law to human capital strategy and coaching, and to discuss the significance of self-awareness and understanding in shaping workplace culture, from both an individual and leadership perspective.
I am grateful to Joanne Lockwood for providing a platform to delve into these important topics and for fostering an environment for open and honest dialogue. My involvement in the podcast has not only allowed me to share my expertise, but has also provided an opportunity to engage with a wider audience and contribute to meaningful conversations about inclusion and belonging in the workplace.
It is my hope that my contribution to The Inclusion Bites Podcast has helped to inspire and inform individuals and organisations on the importance of embracing diversity, understanding different perspectives, and creating inclusive and psychologically safe environments in the workplace.
Inclusion Bites Spotlight
In this edition of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, our guest Kaumudi Goda, a Leadership Consultant, Executive Coach and DEIB Strategist, brings a wealth of knowledge and experience in the realm of diversity, equity, and inclusion. With a passion for helping organizations foster inclusive cultures, Kaumudi offers unique insights into the challenges of global DEIB work and the importance of open-mindedness.
Kaumudi Goda believes in the power of mindful and rigorous approaches to complex problems, advocating for thoughtful decision-making and the need to challenge biases. With a career journey that transitions from law to human capital strategy and coaching, Kaumudi emphasises the significance of self-awareness and understanding in shaping workplace culture.
Throughout the episode, Kaumudi shares her experiences and perspectives on creating inclusive spaces, the importance of psychological safety in the workplace, and the impact of cultural differences on communication and inclusivity. Her insights shed light on the complexities of diversity and inclusion, offering valuable perspectives on embracing diversity and fostering a sense of belonging.
Join us as we delve into the thought-provoking conversation with Kaumudi Goda, exploring the challenges and rewards of inclusive practices and the need to listen and understand without judgement. This episode will inspire listeners to embrace a more inclusive approach in their professional and personal lives, creating spaces where everyone feels valued, seen, and heard.
Tune in to this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast to gain invaluable insights from Kaumudi Goda and join us in the journey towards a more inclusive and understanding world.
YouTube Description
Title: The Inclusion Bites Podcast: Navigating Global DEIB Challenges and Embracing Diverse Perspectives
Description:
🌍 Are we truly embracing diversity and inclusion in a global context? Join us in this thought-provoking episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast as we delve into the complexities of DEIB work across borders. #InclusionBites #DEIB #GlobalInclusion #Diversity #Belonging #Inclusivity #InternationalPerspectives
In this episode, host Joanne Lockwood and guest Kaumudi Goda, a Leadership Consultant and DEIB Strategist, challenge the status quo by exploring the nuances of diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging on a global scale.
Insight Summary:
From the impact of colonialism to the invisible systemic support existing in different cultures, this conversation navigates the complexities of embracing inclusivity. We also uncover the challenges of leadership in diverse environments, the importance of psychological safety, and the need to create spaces where individuals can bring their whole selves to work.
Closing Takeaways and Actions:
After listening to this episode, you'll be inspired to embrace diverse perspectives, understand the challenges of global DEIB work, and foster a culture of openness and inclusivity. Reflect on how you think, feel, and act differently in your approach to diversity and inclusion.
Hashtags: #DiversityAndInclusion #GlobalPerspectives #GlobalDEIB #InclusiveLeadership #CulturalDiversity #DEIBChallenges #BelongingAtWork #EmbracingDiversity #GlobalInclusionInitiatives #InclusiveCulture
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