What's up, DTC Pod? Today we're joined by Juan Maisel, who is the founder and CEO of Grip Shipping. Juan, before this, was one of the early team members and head of logistics at Butcherbox, where he was responsible for building out the infrastructure and the way to ship a bunch of perishable goods to all over the US. And now he's kind of doing that with grip shipping. So, Juan, I'm going to let you kick us off. I know we're excited for this convo because you guys have already processed over a billion dollars worth of goods through your platform. You've built out this whole technical infrastructure to handle perishables, and it's a concept that we haven't really gotten into on DTC pod. So really excited for this convo. Why don't you kick us off, tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, and anything I may have missed.

Yeah, of course.

Thank you for having me here. Excited to be with you guys here. So, as you were saying, part of the very early team at Butcherbox, basically when we were trying to figure out how to ship and sell a box of frozen meat online. And you guys know the story, but that company scaled pretty fast, very successfully bootstrapped since day one, so never really raised a dollar from external investors, which meant basically profitable since day one. And what we're doing at grip is all those learnings of, hey, how do I ship a box of frozen or.

Perishable something in the mail and make money while doing it all across the country?

So all those learnings that we got from that, we created this platform that.

Dynamically decides what's the best way to.

Get the box to your customer, always on a per box basis. So it's very different than shipping non perishable stuff, because the non perishable stuff.

You put it on the mail.

And as long as you're notifying your customers, like most of them are fine with it. Some items, of course, require some urgency and you need to get to them very fast. And you still need to measure your metrics and understand how you're getting to your customer. But it's not really crucial to get.

There on a specific time, right?

Because order a t shirt and you want it for a party and you miss a delivery date, you're pretty sad about it, but you can still wear it. You'll wear it for your next week.

Or next party or whatever it is. But if you order a box of.

Meat and it doesn't show up in time, then that means that you open.

A box it's bloody.

And you were supposed to be feeding your family with that, or having some type of party with that, and you just have to throw it away. So the requirements and specifications and complexities of it are definitely much harder than that. So as you were saying, we launched a couple of years ago, we've now processed over a billion dollars worth of goods through our platform. And then we recently announced the launch.

Of our fulfillment services as well, which.

Means that our customers now basically use us as the end to end provider.

So in practice, what that means is.

They sell their product through Shopify or whatever point of sale system they have.

As soon as they get the order.

It drops into our system. And then we handle that dynamic decision.

Making of how to ship it, and.

Then we actually ship it for them as well. So that way they can focus on what they do best, which is creating amazing products, building brands, selling online, marketing.

The products, and we just handle all the back end of that.

Sweet.

You actually were a butcher box. So were in the arena, you went through the testing field of order, like high order volume, learning through the experience of everything that could possibly go wrong. And a lot of things that can go wrong with shipping perishable goods are oftentimes things that are completely out of your control, such as natural events, like there's a huge heat wave in Arizona and the box was sitting there at the airport for a really long time and you have no control over that. So I'm curious about the trials and tribulations and the things you went through at butcherbox to learn how to minimize the sort of margin of mistakes of things that could go wrong. When shipping perishable goods, you have some stories of what you learned there.

So shipping perishable goods, it's a fast way to get a lot of gray hair. It's a fast track towards that.

We're trying for it not to be that way anymore, but that's how it.

Has been for the last decade.

And there's a lot of stories around it. I mean, even like super early on at our days at Butcherbox, where we noticed that for some reason we shipped more than one product or like one box to some customers in the Boston area. And what a regular d two C company would do is just text them and offer for them to ship it.

Back or just keep it and they'll.

Get this credit or you'll figure something with them at some point. But for us, because it's just like literally meat sitting on someone's porch. And it's know more boxes than what they can handle. I literally had know grab my car with Mike Philby, who used to be our head of marketing, and just go.

Around town just like picking up these.

Boxes and try to put the meat in the freezer. And I'm talking of course like year one of Butcherbox super early on. But I think some of the challenges that starting out, you face because of the complexity of when you have to actually pick up the product when it gets delivered, because if not, it gets thought and then people think that it's actually a bad delivery from the company. There's a lot of variables that go into it. But then when you start hitting scale, as you were saying, major weather events.

Becomes a massive problem.

Like for example, you're trying to get to California in the summer and there's a major weather event impacting one of the major routes that the carriers go through.

And you just shipped 10,000 boxes to California.

You can literally have hundreds of thousands of dollars just like sitting in some of the carriers terminals, just like waiting.

For the major weather event to happen.

So it's very stressful. It's impacted by a lot of different environments. So if you don't have the right systems to operate through that, it's very.

Challenging and that's where your margins end up going to.

Juan, my question was going to be about what is existing infrastructure look like for someone who's getting up and going like you're saying in Butcherbox, you guys kind of had to figure it out and solve it yourself. But let's pretend for a second I'm not using a solution like grip shipping. Where do I go to make sure my product is going to be able to be shipped the right way? Do I just go over to ups and have them print a label and throw an ice pack in there? Or what does the current solution look like for people who are trying to ship perishables?

I mean, there's different stages to it, right?

If you're basically day one new to the game, you don't know anything about it. You're probably like working out of a kitchen or a small warehouse where your company is headquartered, and then you're buying some insulation in Uline or online and then getting the boxes together, getting dry eyes from a local redistribution company, and then paying a lot of money for every single one of these things and.

Then slapping some type of two day.

Express label and giving it to the.

Carrier hoping for the best.

But that's like day one, right? You're just getting started right now. There's another iteration of that which it's where you see the most opportunity for improvement, where you've now figured out a.

Product that people like, you know that.

People now are fans of your product. They'll buy it online, they'll give you their credit card and buy the product. And after that, you are faced with basically an industry that's completely fragmented from every single point of view, because you have some frozen buildings across the country that if you want to be in multiple of them, most likely you have to work with multiple different warehousing companies that have different systems, different point of contacts, different wms, different way of doing things and processes. So that's fragmented from that end. And then that company is most likely not really going to make decisions of how to ship that box for you.

Because that's really not the strength of what they do.

They have great buildings, they have good infrastructure, but that's mostly for pallet in, pallet out work and having the actual physical assets. So they do a good job of that, but not necessarily on the data.

And systems and technology side.

So you would basically be faced by making your own decisions of, how do I ship this in the mail? Which means that because you don't have the resources, you're going to go some.

Type of static model where you say.

Hey, every single box is going to ship with, let's say, five pounds of ice if it's a one day time.

In transit, and it's going to ship.

With ten pounds of ice if it's.

A two day time in transit.

And they're always going to ship this way from this facility with this carrier.

But that's where problems happen.

So you're saying, let's say there's a two day transit. Is that from facility to customer or. The reason I'm asking this is because, first of all, there is a place which is like the frozen goods storage. So, like, it's stored somewhere. Is the storage the three pl as well? Or is there a certain scale where storage needs to happen in one place and then packaging and shipping needs to happen in a different place?

No, it's the same place. Usually the same place. I wouldn't advise to have different places for that. Sometimes if you're too big, then you have some overflow inventory that you don't want to keep in the same space, and then you might have another massive warehouse that's storing for you just because you want to optimize that way. But I would definitely say keep the inventory where you ship it from. And then depending on your scale, that's when you can start opening different facilities across the country and optimizing for the final mile efficiencies and cost. But before that, if you have the appropriate systems, you can basically say things like, hey, I'm going to ship my product on the ground if it's one and two day. But if it's more than two day, then I'm going to go through the air so that I'm not three days on the ground.

Or you can get even more sophisticated than that and say, hey, if it's.

A third day on the ground, I'm.

Only really going to allow it. If temperatures are under 50 degrees. If temperatures are above 50 degrees, then I'm going to automatically put that order on the air so that it only spends two days on the ground. So there's different things that you can do if you have the appropriate systems with you to basically optimize for that. But as you grow and you have the appropriate partners, then you're going to want to be in multiple buildings because.

You don't really want to be on.

The ground for more than one or.

Two days if you're shipping perishables.

It's interesting that you mentioned open your own facility because I remember looking at this back in the COVID times and you didn't have the benefit to choose which frozen three Pl to use because they all had no space. I remember calling every single one they had no space. And then the ones I could find, either they didn't meet the standard or they were in a zone where my customers were in a completely different zone. And so the shipping costs would go completely out of whack. So it seems like building your own facility really is the best alternative when you go to crazy scale. I don't know if that's changed since COVID.

It depends. I would say it's more of a benefit if you're actually producing your own products at that facility. So let's say that you're doing some type of fresh produced meals that rotate very fast. Then at that point I think production with shipping facility combined makes sense. But if you're shipping some type of frozen product or refrigerated that you are not really like producing on site, I think it makes a lot more sense to work with a three PL. Because in most cases that's just like not your strength and that's not where.

Your resources should be going to.

Because why put that massive asset in your balance sheet and tie your cash.

To that when you can just keep.

Using it to grow the company and build a better brand and innovate with the product. So I would definitely say that finding a frozen three PL that knows what they're doing and have the appropriate technology.

Is the right move.

Juan, I want to kind of go back to Butcherbox and talk a little bit about as you guys scaled that up. One question that I have was when you guys were building it, I love your story about running around town figuring out this stuff in the early days, but as the business started to mature and as the scale started to increase, what were some of the biggest challenges that you guys were handling on the technical side that you were overseeing and implementing, and how did you guys solve those challenges?

One of the biggest challenges was trying.

To become dynamic with our shipping without necessarily having the right systems for it.

Which meant that we got caught up with using a lot of people with.

Excel trying to basically become as dynamic.

As we could without necessarily having the systems do all these things automatic for us. So we basically found ourselves downloading weather data from wherever we could and trying to match it to zip codes and orders going out and then matching that to carriers on time, delivery performance all manually to then try to figure out what the best way to ship a box was. So no systems for this, right?

Because we were like basically building the.

Plane as we flew it. So we just had to move very fast to figure these things out. But that gets very challenging when you get to scale because mistakes are extremely expensive. As I was saying earlier, if you.

Don'T catch that wildfire in California early.

Enough, you could be living like all.

Your month's margin, basically on one day.

That you did not make that decision.

To hold the boxes.

My other follow up question was going to be, it seems like going direct to consumer in a logistics sense. It's like sort of a recent thing, like you guys went through it at Butcherbox because you guys had to build all of that out yourself. But it seems like there's probably a handful of other companies that maybe were facing similar problems. I don't know. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but maybe, I don't know, something like those different services that you could use to send chocolate or edible arrangements. I know people like sending Ramon edible arrangements and those get delivered. But were there any other companies, and do you know about how they were building out their infrastructure? Were they handling it themselves? Were they fully custom? Were they doing all the same things that you were doing? And was there no other provider for this? Was it just everyone kind of having to figure it out themselves?

It was mostly everyone by themselves.

And that's why you saw almost every.

Single one of the companies, the early.

Companies in the space, just go belly up early on. It's because they could just not turn a profit.

And the reason for that is because they just could not optimize this side of the equation. They were also probably paying way too much to acquire a customer to begin with. But after they did that, if they messed up the delivery, that means that they're basically like on the whole two.

X because now they have to reship.

That box that got damaged while trying to get to the customer. But they already paid to acquire that customer, let's say 100 plus dollars per customer. So that's like basically $200 in the hole. And then that customer, because you messed up the original delivery, it's most likely not even returning.

So a customer, it's like very high.

Likelihood of turning for you. So it's literally impossible to run a business that way. And I think that's why most of.

These businesses end up basically shutting down.

I mean there's also like a big, were there any regulatory things on shipping meat and exposure risk with customers, with thawed meat and all of that as.

Well to navigate in the mean?

Not really. Not a lot from the shipping side. There's some things or guidance from the FDA that you have to follow, of course, and there's a lot of things that we do on the food safety standpoint, but there's really not a lot of regulatory stuff. I hope that that comes more to the industry because I think it's needed. And when it does, then companies are going to need to follow very strict systems to be able to apply all these different rules and regulations to what they're doing. But there's really not a lot of that to start with. And the reason for it is because this was when we're getting started, a.

Very early industry, early market, I should say.

And right now it's a much more developed market. The market has changed ten years ago. It's basically like us and a couple of other companies and maybe like Omaha.

Stakes that has been around for 20.

Plus years or like 30 years, I don't know even how long, but that's specifically focused on a specific market segment. But nowadays the market and the industry has changed because you guys and I, we know that we can just go online and order something perishable or frozen. It just shows up. We understand that that's doable right now.

We can just go online and do it right now. But ten years ago was not the case.

Then. How did grip come about? So now it's something completely normal for consumers to do. Was it a matter of experience building up to this point for you launching grip? Or is now basically like time aligned for you to be able to do this? How long ago did you start grip and when did you decide, all right, I'm going to go and productize this entire thing?

Through my time at Butcherbox, it was very apparent that, one, we needed better systems for that because we had figured out some of the concept behind being.

Dynamic in the shipping. But it's too early on to really produce a product with it or put technology around it, because you really don't want to be building these things unless you actually know that this is a solution for moving forward or long term. So, of course, a lot of scrappy excel developments internally, and it was me looking for some type of system that could do this for us outside and me with my team just basically having meetings with a bunch of different vendors and softwares that we thought could build something like this, but it was just not the case. And then through Covid and even before that, I just got randomly reached out by different companies that people that they would know Butcherbox because they would be butcherbox customers. So they would call LinkedIn, message me, and say, hey, Juan, I buy butcherbox, comes frozen to my house. How are you doing? Know, how are you guys doing this at scale? I'm trying to ship human grade pet food, other meat products, like ready to eat meals, like pharmaceuticals, flowers, and we're having so much money wasted because we can't figure out the shipping site. So I basically connected that market need that I started sensing because people would.

Start reaching out to me.

And then with our need internally, of like, hey, we're a half a billion dollar company. We're still doing this manually through Excel and definitely not up to where we should be doing it, and there's really no system out there to figure it out. So it was just so obvious that I had to step down from my role and start this company. And then our CTO used to be head of data at Butcherbox. So he's the guy who built the entire data infrastructure and team at Butcherbox since day one, is like the first data engineer that we hired at the company. And so he also comes from the.

Problem, which means that we have this.

View of, like, we've actually spent more.

Time on the customer's seat and table.

At the solutions provider table. So we understand much more the problem.

Than the solution to this point.

But that's why we're basically chipping away at building this solution. And that's why we resonate so well with our customers, because we come from their problem. We understand the problem actually more than most of them, because we ran big.

Segments of Butcherbox for longer than they've been around for. Yeah, I love that.

I think it's so important to, and I know this is something Ramona and I talk about, when you go through a problem, you just understand it better and you know what to build. So I think you guys having the team to do that in place is really cool. The other thing I kind of want to talk about is what does grip enable? Let's call it the short medium to the longer term. Right. Are we going to see a world where, for example, the way I shop, it's like I have different supermarkets that I shop at because there's different sort of goods and maybe there's a different meat supplier that works, that supplies to one market. So I'll go over there to get meat versus the poultry. Maybe it's better at a different chain, et cetera, frozen goods at a different one. Are we entering a world where you see any sort of perishable or food producers being able to sell direct just like a grocer, other d to c brands propping up? Or is this something that maybe just caters more towards the higher end of the market? I know I've bought direct from services like Butcherbox from Regolis, who's really high quality seafood and stuff like that.

So do you see this enabling a new wave of sort of the way in which consumers can, like, you can.

Ultimately buy anything from anywhere because.

Originally or before even shipping cold food online.

The first wave was shipping warm food online, which is localized.

And this is like the uber eats of the world. So that gives you access to the restaurants around you and like a few minutes of delivery, but the food being cold, actually preserves it. And that means that you can basically get anything from anywhere. And we've seen basically two waves of it. We've seen online, native online companies that are basically just expanding their offerings and they want to optimize, make a profit, and just service better their customers. That's like one type of customers that we service. But then, similar to what you're saying, we see retailers that they've been selling products for a long time to retail.

Stores or through some specific channels, but.

Now they figure out that their customer is online and that they can get directly to their customers without necessarily having.

To go to the retail stores.

So you see a lot of very big retail companies that produce amazing products, wanting to go direct to the consumer as well. And that's something that they've never done before and that's not native to what they do internally as a company, which is why partnering like a company for us, for them is just a huge.

Enabler for getting to that final customer directly.

And why don't you tell us a little bit more of what other types of brands and stuff you work with? I know you guys have partnered with massive supplements brands and massive food brands, et cetera. So why don't you just characterize the spread and the breadth of products that you guys can support and why those types of services or products need you guys?

Yeah.

The highest level of it is perishable.

And frozen products that are sold or can be sold online directly to the consumer.

I'll take the highest level of it. Under that you have basically ready to eat meals, which are like specific ethnic background meals, or you have also, like, weight loss type of meals, or you just have delicious restaurant meals that are not sold online and you can get from anywhere. Then you have the meat type of products. So, like butcher boxes of the world, which is a pretty fast growing segment.

Then you have human grade pet food.

Which includes dogs and cats, which is also a pretty fast growing segment generally. And then you have pharmaceuticals. It's huge. The same way that you ship some type of pharma in the mail.

The same way that you ship meat in the mail.

And then you have the flour market, which is a multibillion dollar market that you definitely don't want to mess up a flower delivery because then you're going to be in trouble. So that's another massive market out there. So there's like, subsegments of the market. And then you also have specialty product markets as an example, like there's retailers or companies that do specialty cakes that everyone loves across the country, and you can get those frozen anywhere. I have this fun story that every time my mom comes to Miami, I order this cake from New York City. That's her favorite cake, and I basically have it in my freezer before she.

Gets to the house.

And that's something that, of course, you cannot even imagine doing that 510 years ago. You would just have to think that you have to go to New York City and eat the cake or bring it with you in your luggage and then hope that it's just still frozen when you get back to Miami, which is probably not the case. So there's a lot of subsegments to this market.

You know, it's funny. So I'm from Puerto Rico, and every time I go through the airport in Puerto Rico, everyone is just like, taking out so much food out of their bags, they travel back with all the plantains and all this stuff and the rice with the beans and everything. So we're moving to a future where maybe people don't have to travel with their goods, but one. I want you to walk us through why a company chooses to work with grip. So what exactly is it that you guys provide, and why is it that a company would choose to work with grip?

I think the highest level of it.

Is we improve their bottom line, so.

We make them more profitable or profitable or just generally improve the bottom line. And how that happens is because in.

The perishable shipping industry, like the actual shipping and fulfillment process, it's a very.

Big line item in this company's PNL. So there's a lot of ways to optimize it, and there's a lot of things that you can do to optimize it with the different variables that you can move. And the way that we've approached this problem is, hey, what's everything we wish we had when getting started at Butcherbox then was everything that Butcherbox could use right now as a company to then optimize the deliveries. And what is it that the market needs right now based on the different.

Problems that they're facing, which are pretty.

Similar problems across the board. So we took that approach initially to launch the company, which means that we understand our customers problems very good. So we've built this very smart system that decides how to ship the boxes with every single variable that can be.

Included in that process and increases the probability of success, which means that it.

Decreases the amount of failed boxes that.

You ship or failed shipments, and then.

At the same time, it massively reduces shipping costs. So we've seen average of about like 30% reduction in shipping costs for our customers, which it's massive for their bottom.

Line and their company overall.

So we took the approach of like, hey, let's create this killer software product that is missing in the industry, because the industry just doesn't specifically come from a technology background. And then let's take that and pair.

It with actual fulfillment on the ground.

So that we can get best of both worlds and we can get full data traceability through the full equation. So we've seen that we are a very nice growth unlocker for our customers, as well as improvement to the bottom line.

Because now, if they were focusing like.

40% of their time in trying to figure this out now, they have to focus 5% of their time in this.

But they're doing it like 200% better.

So it's almost like having to build.

Your own stripe internally, where if you.

Have engineers or resources internally, why would you even think about doing that? Just focus on creating your product and selling your product and making a beautiful brand.

But you know that on the other.

End, stripe is the absolute best service.

That you can work with for your.

Payment processing system, because that's the only thing that they do, and that's their focus. So we're basically taking a similar approach.

To the logistics and fulfillment side, where.

That'S our only focus. Just being the best at that, so that we can service our customers better with the technology and all the dynamic.

Decision making that we're doing.

And do you guys have a minimum volume for the right type of customer?

That is a one to leverage grip?

Not necessarily a minimum, but what we do look for is companies that have amazing products and companies that are actually.

Focused on growing their direct to consumer offering. Got it.

Blaine has a company in the olive oil space. And Blaine, is that perishable?

I don't think so. Not as perishable. I mean, it is in the supplement space, so there's parts of it. But I think the focus for you guys that you guys are taking on is being able to solve the challenge of truly perishable goods. Right. And that leads me to my next question, is, on the fulfillment side of things, what do you guys need to handle to make this work? Do you have a bunch of different environments that you need? Do you need, like, frozen, refrigerated, as well as other sort of temperatures? What does the operation look like to be able to accommodate all different sorts of goods from all different sort of brands?

So you usually need a tritemp building, which means dry, refrigerated, and frozen. Frozen would be anywhere from minus five to -20 degrees. So you don't want to spend more than five minutes in that freezer. Then you have refrigerated, which is usually from 32 to 40 degrees.

And then you have dry, which, because.

It'S next to a refrigerated space for a freezer, usually stands at around like.

50 to 60 degrees, I would say, in that range.

But you need those three, because usually you store the dry products, which are the insulation and the boxes in the dry side. And then you do most of the pick and pack in the refrigerated area, which is at 32 degrees. And then you hold the inventory in the freezer. You can also pick in the freezer, or we pick in the freezer for specific products. But a lot of the picking happens.

In the refrigerated area.

But the important thing of this, I think, is optimizing.

How are you doing all the picking.

And deciding on all the different variables before you actually start doing the picking and before you send the orders on the ground? Because you don't want any decisions to happen on the ground. Because those would be decisions that are not data backed and not up to.

Standards of providing the best service to the final customers.

So when an order hits the ground.

And needs to be packed, every single decision around that order needs to be made already.

I love that. So basically what you're saying is if the good is a frozen good, it's not like getting out of the freezer before the decision is made and then being sent into the box. The decision is made. So as soon as the package knows where it's going, then you'll be able to pick it out of the freezer and be able to send it on its way, which is why it makes sense to integrate the intelligence with the actual fulfillment side of things. My next question that I was going to have for you was when you guys are like, you guys are obviously doing a lot in terms of having to manage the fulfillment side as well as the logistics. How does pricing work? How do you guys think about it? How are you scaling up this offering? Are you working with a handful of brands where you're taking their whole inventory? Are you working with a bunch in one location? How are you thinking about building out your fulfillment network and tying it into the software infrastructure?

We keep pricing super simple. I think that's one of the shortcomings of the industry generally, that people don't really know what they have to pay for until the box ships. And at that point it becomes very challenging for them to do planning and actually build a model, a financial model internally that they know that they can be profitable with. And that's all the way from storage and picking and packing and the box and the refrigerator and price. Those are things that generally in the industry are very complex to calculate. But we keep it extremely simple and we give every single line item to.

Our customers so that they know exactly.

How much it's going to cost to.

Ship every single order.

So it's a mix for us of a technology component and then the actual fulfillment and shipping. And it varies, of course, based on the type of product, the size of.

The box, or like how many skus.

Or picks a box requires. But we keep it as simple as.

You can have it sweet and kind.

Of, as we wrap up here, my last question is just going to be what are the plans for grip for the upcoming year? Like, you guys are just launching the fulfillment stuff. You've got the architecture in place. I know you're working with a whole bunch of big brands already. You guys have already processed a billion dollars worth of goods. What are some of the big challenges that you're attacking, that you're really trying to solve for, that you think is going to drive a lot of value for brands in the perishable space who need this sort of service.

The first one, which it's not completely.

Related to what you're asking, but it is something that we're very focused on.

Internally, is defending our company culture, because.

As we scale, we're going to have to two or three x our team.

Size this year, and that takes a.

Lot of great people and great hiring and great onboarding of team members. So we're going to have to really strongly defend our company's culture to really acknowledge and understand what has gotten us here and how important that is to the next few years of the company as well. And if we have a strong team.

Then we can keep doing what we're doing, which is fast innovation and providing.

An a plus service to our customers, which is the rest of the focus for this year. But it all starts with the internal team. If we have the appropriate pieces in place and everyone is basically enjoying and growing internally, then we can basically focus on then doing similar stuff for our customers, which is helping them grow and enjoy while they create amazing products, because.

They just don't have to focus on.

What would be a headache for them, and a loss of profits, which is.

The operations and logistics for perishable products.

But as you said, we recently announced the launch. We're processing hundreds of thousands of orders through our facilities and our systems, and we process a billion dollars worth of goods already. And that takes a lot of data infrastructure in the back end, and we have a bunch of different scans and data points that we get through the orders through the system. And our goal, of course, is to take what we think is a fragmented industry and make it the most data backed and connected and simple for our.

Customers as we can. Sweet.

I love that. And for any of our listeners who maybe are working in the more perishable goods space and are looking to connect, maybe learn something, where can we connect with you? Where can we find you? Are you on LinkedIn, Twitter? Why don't you shout out your socials.

LinkedIn. Yes, Juan C. Myso, I think is my LinkedIn. And then I just recently got on Twitter after like eleven years of opening it and never posting anything.

I started posting some things about grip.

Recently there, which is, I think it's Juan C. Maso as well. And then you can just follow the.

Company in LinkedIn as well, which is grip shipping. Sweet.

Well, thanks for coming on the show today.

Yeah, thanks for having, good to see you both. Bye.