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What's going on? Uploading. Welcome to today's episode. Today we're talking with Neville Midora. He is one of the Internet copywriting ogs. Neville has been writing for over 20 years, and he's also been an advisor for companies like Appsumo and the and the hustle when it comes to their content strategies. He's also the owner of copywritingCourse.com, which is essentially a place to learn copy skills, improve your messaging, and get live feedback. So today we're gonna dive into all things copywriting AI, how these worlds meet. And Neville, you have a lot of experience Neville, you have a lot of experience in copywriting.

So I'll let you kick us off and tell us a little bit more about your background, if that covers it.

Yeah, thanks, Matt. Thanks for having me on. The background of me quickly is in high school, I started a small company called House of Rave. It was an e commerce business. It was drop shipping. Now it's very common. Back then, it was like, I was a genius to think of that. And I started writing emails to all the customers of that company, and they never made any money.

And then I discovered a thing called copywriting. All my marketing friends were like, you gotta learn copywriting. And I was like, that was copywriting? I thought it was like lawyer stuff. And so I learned copywriting. I was like, oh, okay. The way you sell something can have a big output or a big outcome difference whenever you sell something properly versus improperly. And so I stayed up to like six in the morning every day learning copywriting. And the first email I sent out to House of Rave customers, I made a $10,000 day profit, which was like very big for me at the time.

And I was like, holy crap, what just happened? I spent all this time writing these emails and like, they were just like, pictures and buy now buttons. That's essentially what it was with a short description, with the copyright email, I was telling people why they should buy different use cases for the products, how other customers are using it, different reviews, all that kind of stuff. I was using the Ada formula to write these emails, and it had a really big impact. Meanwhile, one of our mutual friends, Noah Kagan, he was building appsumo off of my couch at the time in Austin, and he was sending out emails as well. And I was like, dude, let me rewrite one of your emails, like I'm doing for my own company. And it totally took off, and I became a part of that company as well. And copywriting became a big thing. And people were reading these appsumo emails and my company emails and being like, why do I want to read these emails? Like, you're trying to sell me something.

I know you are. Why do I keep reading these? And I was like, well, it's because this thing called copyrighted. And I was like, okay. After the 50th time trying to repeat this, I was like, perhaps we should, like, record this and sell it as some sort of product. And so we did that, and that's how copywriting course was born and eventually became its own company. And that leaves me here today. So I've been the advisor for a ton of the voices you see on the Internet, such as Appsumo, as the inspiration for the hustle. I've helped Cody Sanchez's team kind of revamp some of their copy.

I'm doing an upcoming project with daily Stoic to train their writers, stuff like that. And so I'm kind of like the back end voice for a lot of these companies to make their writers write much better. Oftentimes, what happened is the founder of a company will write really well, and they hire a bunch of writers, and it's a bit difficult to train people to write like you. It's harder than expected. So I've done that. I've also been involved in a lot of AI stuff. I've invested in a company called Copy AI. Early on, I was just like, I don't know how to build AI myself, so I want to be involved in this.

And so I've been pretty involved in AI for, like, five years. And so that's where we meet right here. Cast magic is intersection of, like, writing and AI. And I like standing there as well.

That's. I mean, copy is so powerful, and especially when you can, like, see it in sales and happen in real time in those emails you mentioned. But I'm curious, how are you able to, okay, you're writing the copy for the rave ecommerce business you have. You take Noah's computer, and you say, let me just do it for you. And you're somehow able to also do it in a way that, like, resonates, even though the audience might be different. So how do you see it for an organization versus, you know, a personal brand? You know, a personal brand that's selling a course they talk like, how they talk. But then how do you find a company's voice into being able to send an email that still feels relatable even though it comes from an organization?