Hello. Thank you for listening to I'm speaking with Elizabeth West. I am your host, and I am going to be talking with Rachel Lee again, but this time I'm on the hot seat. Rachel is going to be interviewing me about the traits of being an introvert and HSP, which is short for highly Sensitive person and an have and as well as additional traits that I've spoken about on previous episodes, which is being also found out that I'm a manifesting generator in human design. So that's a whole thing. And as well as just realizing that I am a neurodivergent. So I have ADHD tendencies and I haven't been diagnosed yet, but I've been saying it for years. A family member of mine brought it up.

They were like, you've been saying that for, like, the last decade, that you have undiagnosed. So we'll be talking a little bit. Well, really, whatever Rachel wants to ask, but it will be alongside these traits. Thank you very much again, Rachel Lee, for talking. You're going to be interviewing me this time. So I'm on the hot seat.

I'm very excited. I'm excited that I have the pleasure today to interview you because some of these concepts are just ones that have really been on my mind recently. And I know a lot of our conversations, we've touched on them, but I'm really excited to actually get a little bit more background and how you have been introduced to these concepts, how you discovered them. But first, I guess and I know we kind of talked about this in our last interview as well, but I just kind of wanted, like, a brief definition explanation of some of the traits of empath, HSP, ADHD and introversion, just so we have a context.

Okay, so very good. So being an introvert, I'll start off with being an introvert. So an introvert. And this is something that's very interesting because when I found this out back in 2020, which was I found out later in life. So the only difference between an introvert and an extrovert or an extrovert and an introvert is in how we recharge. So extroverts tend to recharge. Well, let me actually back up a little bit. We're all a little bit of both.

Everyone is a little bit extroverted and a little bit introverted. It just depends on we're all on a spectrum. So I'll start off with that because I think a lot of people which and I thought so too, at the time, earlier or throughout my life, that you're either one or the other, but we're actually a little bit of both. So even though I'm more introverted, I'm more of an introvert, I would say the percentage is, like, I think I'm like 60% introverted and 40% extroverted. So I'm still outgoing, but I got to recharge. So that's really the only difference between an extrovert and an introvert, is in how we recharge. So extroverts recharge by being around many people introverts recharge best in smaller groups and in 1-1's and in alone time. And I also like to say that I think about it like your cell phone battery, because some people like to make up about if somebody's more introverted, they like to say, oh, you want to be alone all the time.

And that's actually a myth. We don't need to be alone all the time, right? We just need to be able to recharge when we are at our capacity, everybody's different. Like, you're going to be different than me, my capacity is going to be different than yours. The next introvert, the next introvert, the next introvert.

Because I feel like one of the biggest things I love is sharing alone time, if that makes sense. We can be alone together. You can be doing your thing, I'm doing my thing. But there's no social obligation, there's no pressure. We're just existing in the same space. That is beautiful to me. I love recharging in that space.

That's another thing, too, because I don't know well, saying I don't know, but I mean, society, they feel like I know some people. Like when my family, we know each other so well because we're family, so we can be in the same room and not talk right then certain family members I'm not as close to, so they feel like they have to talk all the time and it's like we don't have to talk. We could just sit here quietly. Both yeah.

I kind of like that awkward silence because you know? Because I'm cool with it so...it's not hard for me..

-Yeah, it's not hard for us. We don't mind it. And that's another thing, too. I had it on and I'll look up the episode later, but my interview with Jessica Butts, she's a Myers-Briggs expert. So another thing for the listeners listening, those that are new to Myers-Briggs or to what being an introvert and an extrovert are Myers-Briggs it's www.16Personalities.com. It's not the Myers-Briggs's test, but it is the test that I took and it has a lot of details on it, but it was mirrored from the Myers-Briggs was the original one that had this, which a lot of people say that it's the introvert versus extrovert test. So and it's a self assessment. So for those listening that are like, what is she talking about? What's Myers-Briggs? What's this? What's that? You know what I mean? Because I get that, too.

Everybody's on a different journey, different parts of their journey. But yeah, www.16Personalities.com and I'll have that in the show notes as well. But yeah, I'm glad that you brought that up, Rachel, about how we don't have to be we can both separately be reading a book, but be in the same room and we don't have to talk. Yeah.

So when did you discover that you were an introvert?

Okay, so when I discovered, and I'm going to also have the show notes for this one as well, I talk much more detail about this in episode number two is connecting the dots on my podcast. On this podcast. And so I was connecting the dots throughout my whole life. And I guess you could say the final dots. Not to say that there ever are final dots because I'm still discovering new things about myself. And I think we will as human beings until we pass. I feel like we're going to continuously. But the final dots as far as being an introvert, collected those in 2020.

And it's funny because the first time that I can remember, I read an article about it when I was a kid in the newspaper. Yeah, back in the day. Right? So newspaper, and it was talking about it was like this cartoon. And they were like, are you an introvert? But what's interesting about that is because a lot of articles that were written and are written continuously to this day, they're written by extroverts or those that are more extroverted, so they will paint the picture of an introvert. It's not really true, but it was this cartoon. The first image that I can remember of even knowing what the word introvert was, was this cartoon. It was the newspaper and there was this article and it was like, are you an introvert? And it had this cartoon of this man. It was like really dark in this dark room, like in a corner.

He looked like crazy to me. And they were like, are you an introvert? So I looked at the paper, and it's not to say I read a lot of papers. I mean, I read comics as a kid, but it was right next to the comic, so I couldn't help but see it. And I looked at the cartoon and I was like, that guy looks like a crazy person. I was like, I'm not an introvert!

Not trying to be that..

Exactly, so that would probably be the first dot that I can remember. And then kind of like, I guess flash forwarding is I remember taking a test in my twenties, and it was along the same lines as a Myers-Briggs or the 16Personalities test, but it was at work and they had us take the test. And I figured when I answered all the questions at the end, it kind of told me it was like, you're more introverted. And then they didn't follow up with it. So I was like, well, what am I going to do with that? Okay, again, through the piece of paper or recycled it or whatever. What am I going to do with it? Because they didn't follow up. So there wasn't like another activity that we were doing. So I was like, well, I don't know what I'm going to do with that.

So I threw it out.

Yeah, you're like, what do I use this for? How's this going to inform anything in my life?

And so and we talked about this in the last podcast episode where I'm interviewing you about how and you're in your twenty s and you're already knowing all these things because of so many things that have evolved that yeah. So it's really a huge help to even have it be more of a regulated term as far as being an introvert you know. That is really huge. No, go ahead.

I feel like most people seem to expect that extroversion is like the default attribute of most people.

Right.

But I did read somewhere that 50% of the population is actually introverts. I'm just curious of how that assumption comes to be and how you think it affects people who are introverted.

I think that's a good question. It's funny because I thought that it was like much less of a percentage just because of the way society is. And when I discovered that it was half the population, I was like, oh my gosh, really? Okay. And I know it's due to society that a lot of us, and myself included, I thought I was an extrovert for the longest until 2020. I thought I was an extrovert because I'm outgoing. So I thought, I'm not an introvert because I'm outgoing. But and another thing, and I'm not going to go off on a tangent, but a lot of people confuse shyness with being an introversion, which are two totally separate traits. And I'm just going to say this quote real quick that I got from I believe it was the head of Introverted Girlfriends.

I heard it on a podcast, and I don't have the podcast. I can't think of what the name of the podcast was, but she was either the founder or the head of the group Introverted Girlfriends. And she was talking and she said, shyness is in your way. So being shy is in your way. Being an introvert is your way. So being shy is in your way. Being an introvert is your way. I was like, oh, I love that.

So I was like, I'm going to copy that.

Well, that is beautiful, because yeah there's

A strength in introversion, especially when you can understand it and see what purpose and role it can play in your life.

Exactly. And it's like, I discovered later on, it must have been either 2020 or 2021. A friend of mine was like, did you know that Oprah is an introvert? And I was like, what? And she sent me this clip, this YouTube clip that I can put in the show notes, and it's Oprah. She's talking about how she's an introvert, and she's talking with Amy Schumer, the comedian and actress Amy Schumer, and they're talking about how they're both introverts. And I wouldn't think that any of those two would be introverts, but just goes to show, all it is, is in how we recharge. It has nothing to do with talking to people, interviewing people.

Yeah, right. Yeah, I've kind of dealt with that a lot myself. Like, people kind of assuming, like, hey, you seem really talkative or outgoing or friendly. Why aren't you answering my texts? I'm like well, I need some time. I have to recharge in certain ways, alright? Just because I have this outward appearance and I can create a time and structure for that. I'm not like that all the time. I can't do it all the time.

Exactly. And that's why I didn't know that I was or why I assumed I was an extrovert for most of this time. Most of my life is because a lot of my friends would say, no, you're not. No, you're not. Because I do have that 40% outgoing. But yeah, this is something else that friends would say. And I'm looking back on this because this is before I knew that I was really an introvert. I'd have friends that would say, yeah, we'll see you at gatherings and stuff.

We'll see you at a few gatherings, and then we won't see you for a while. And they were like, yeah, you're just like doing your own thing. You're just kind of quiet and doing your thing. And now I look back because I was recharging.

You got to keep them wanting more. There's a strength in it. When you do go to a party, they're going to appreciate your presence because they don't get it all the time. That's how I think about it.

Speaking of parties, I have a tip, which I'm planning on having a book out. I'm not trying to plug anything. Well, I kind of am. Kind of? Well, not really, but I mean, just say it, but I'm planning on having a book about self love for these traits, being an introvert, being a highly sensitive person, and being an empath, for example. And that's one thing that I'm going to talk about as opposed to going to parties. Now that I know that I have these traits, what I will do is I'll go early to a party and I'll leave after, like, a couple of hours. That's my capacity, is a couple of hours. So I'll stay a couple of hours at the longest, and then I'll leave, and I'll just leave early because I need to do that.

That's my capacity.

Good idea.

Yeah. And before I would stay, I would stay till almost the end of the party, and I was like, I wasn't even having fun anymore. I think I was just trying to support my friend, but it's like, you know what? I didn't have to stay for the whole...

That's self-awareness of like, yeah, I think I'm about done. Yup, capacity is full, social battery drained.

Exactly. And that's what's key. It's like knowing these things about ourselves, and then that way now it's like, I'll be like, that two hour mark. And it's funny because I don't even have to look at the time. I'll feel it. And then it's funny because now I'm more aware, and so I'll look and it's funny because I'll just like, okay, I got to go. And it's funny because I'll always look at the time, and it's usually around 2 hours so it's like...

See, that's crazy, though, the self-awareness. The self-awareness. Okay, but you did also focus, or you mentioned also being an empath. So when did you discover these traits in yourself?

Yes. Okay, so let's see. So being a highly sensitive person, that was interesting, too. And I talk about this more so in detail on episode number 2, connecting the dots. So being a highly sensitive person, that was similar to how I discovered I was an introvert in that actually, I didn't even know the term until it was in Oprah. Speaking of Oprah, it was in Oprah magazine and it was how many? Okay, it was like eleven years ago, Oprah magazine, and there was an article, I was waiting for my mom, picking my mom up, and I was waiting for her. And I had the magazine. I was just kind of killing time.

And the article was like, are you a highly sensitive person? I'm like, what the eff is that? And then I fill out this quiz, and at the end, they're like, you are definitely a highly sensitive person. And that was kind of like what opened the door. Again, similar to being an introvert, finding out. I was like, what am I going to do with this? Threw the magazine, my mom comes out and I threw a magazine in the backseat. I don't know what to do with that. You know what I mean? What do I do? It's interesting because I didn't realize that the traits actually are connected until 2020, which this podcast called Introvert, Dear, which is not live anymore, but their episodes are still there. They're evergreen, and they're so good because that's how I tied them together as far as being an introvert and an HSP, because they have an episode.

And I'll link this in the show notes. I'm going to write it down so I don't forget they have an episode. That ties in. A lot of introverts are also highly sensitive people, so I didn't know. I thought that they were just totally separate from each other, but then come to find out they tie in to get together, and then that was kind of like connecting those final dots on being an HSP was in 2020, shortly after discovering I was an introvert as well.

What about an empath?

Okay, so an empath, that was actually not the most recent, but more recent. Out of the three, those three traits, I discovered that because I was saying for the longest, I didn't think I was an empath, but I was all like, let me read about really what it is. And we talked a little bit about this in the last podcast episode that we just did where I was interviewing you and how Dr. Judith, Orloff they nicknamed her the Godmother for empaths something to that effect, what she talks about. So she talks about a lot about empaths, and she covers that, and she's a doctor as well. And the only difference between an empath and a highly sensitive person is really an empath. We are known to be like sponges as far as feeling the feelings of those that are around us. We're sponges to that.

So it's the same traits and characteristics of a highly sensitive person. But the only difference is if somebody is a highly sensitive person, but they are not necessarily like a sponge, then they would not be an empath. But you're an empath and a highly sensitive person. If you're also like a sponge and you feel people's feelings, that's next to you. And I'll just kind of talk about a story real quick. If you're chilling in your day, you're just kind of like having a good day. You're reading a book, for example, and somebody calls you, and they're like, yelling at you or yelling about something that happened in their day. If you're an empath, you're going to feel that, and you're going to all of a sudden feel stressed out also.

So that's the difference. That's what they say is the only difference. Other than that, it's just the same as a highly sensitive person.

Nice. Okay. ADHD?

Okay.

Exploring and discovering some ADHD tendencies.

Yeah, ADHD. It's funny because for the last decade, I had been talking about I've been saying that a family member brought it up to me. They're like, you've been saying that you have undiagnosed ADD for the last decade. And I was like, you're right, like that. But I discovered that because a friend of mine actually another podcaster she was talking about, she's a neurodivergent. And I was like, what is that? And I was kind of like, kind of this was probably, like, in the last year, I would say a little over a year that this friend of mine was like, she discovered she was and so I still didn't understand it. And I was like, okay, I'm just trying to figure it out. What do you call it? So I discovered that most recently, which is a couple of months ago, and even though I was saying it, for the last decade, I have undiagnosed actually, another thing I want to say is I haven't been diagnosed yet because it's due to insurance.

So I'm trying to figure out if my insurance will cover it. And so that's a whole nother thing. But other than that, I'm pretty sure, like, I'm 99.9% sure that I have it. And I discovered it from listening to a podcast that popped up kind of like, randomly on my feed. I listened to a lot of podcasts, and it just popped up. So it's Tracy Otsuka's podcast called ADHD for the Smart Ass Woman. Very good podcast. And the episode that I listened to, the first episode that I listened to, it talked about, Roxanne was on there, and she was talking about how she starts stuff but wouldn't finish stuff.

,And then it kind of like she talked about many things, but that episode was really good. And Tracy Otsuka is such a great interviewer as well, and again, a great podcast. And in that podcast episode, what they were both talking about, I was like, oh, I think I know I am now, I feel like I really am because of what they talked about. And I'll link that episode in the show notes as well, so people can listen to it if they want to, if they're curious about it. But yeah, that one was most recent, and that just made another thing I want to say is my Myers-Briggs 4 letters are I-N-F-P. So 'I', 'N' as in Nancy, 'F' as in Frank, 'P' as in Paul. And it's been known actually, Tracy Osuka's podcast was what she talked about. Those that either are ENFPs or INFPs are usually likely to have ADHD.

It's not like 100%, but they've found out that usually it is. They find out that they do have ADHD if they have those 4 letters in Myers-Briggs, which is that 16personalities.com test. So it was funny. So I'm just right up that alley. So that's how I discovered it. And that was like the most recent one because that was like, a couple of months ago. A lot of things make more sense. It's like I have glasses on now, whereas before things were "a blur".

Like I didn't understand how come I forget things and how come I need more alarms for things and to remind me, because the opposite of a neurodivergent is a neurotypical, which they can be like, okay, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. They can sit still, they can pay attention. Like in school, it's not a big deal. For me, school was I was always daydreaming. Yes, I was listening, but I was daydreaming more than anything so...

That kind of leads me to my next question. How have you felt that these traits have impacted you, I guess, in your daily life? But also I'm thinking you've got in the corporate environment. How has that impacted you and how have you worked to overcome them?

Yes, and you have a lot of great words in my interview with you as far as what you do, how you kind of push away that energy, that pushy energy. So now that I know these traits about myself, what I do is I make sure to definitely get rest. I'm an 8 hours of sleep. I try to no less than 7 hours. Otherwise I'm just mush. My brain won't work. I'm cranky. It's not good.

So rest is very important. No screens a couple of hours before going, or I guess at least no later than 1 hour before you're going to sleep. No screens because that will actually keep your brain awake as well, especially being a highly sensitive person. We're sensitive to the light and all that, I would say recharging is huge. So on my breaks because I'll just say day job at my day job on my breaks, I recharge on every break. So for me I need alone time because it's an extroverted job so I need to have that. On my breaks I really make sure I take a break and get away from everything. Whether that means listening to music, I have my earbuds so I can listen to music or I could listen to a podcast or I might just leave and go outside, go to a corner of the building, things like that.

So yeah, that's how I do. Recharging is huge. Recharging and then boundaries as well. But I mean long story short, recharging is really the key and rest.

But also how does that impact what type of jobs and careers that you look for even like in your side hustles and trying to find something that aligns with those traits that you have.

Yeah, that's tough. So it's really been a struggle because this world we live in an extroverted world we live in, an extroverted world we live in a non-sensitive world. As far as being a highly sensitive person, it's not a highly sensitive world that we live in. And we don't live, like, in an empath type world where empaths we're like sponges. And so it's really been a struggle. To this day it really is a struggle and that's why now I'm again going not to sound like repetitive but or redundant, but these traits that I'm discovering about myself now, it makes more sense and why I always wanted to do my own thing. I always wanted to be my own boss. That's where this podcast comes from actually.

It's my zone of genius which is and I wrote it down so I wouldn't forget. But connecting with others, sharing information with others and encouraging others, those are my zones of genius. So those are what light me up. I love to do them and they light me up. Because a zone of genius and I'm not going to get preachy, but long story short, is a zone of genius is like something that you love to do that you're also good at because there's a lot of things that we're good at but we don't love to do. But if you love to do it and you're good at it, chances are that's your zone or zones of genius. So podcasting covers all three of them, connecting with others, encouraging others, sharing information with others. And I absolutely love it.

I love it.

I know we're getting close on the end of our time here, so I do have one last question in terms of something you can leave us with and that can be whatever you feel. But I guess I've always just kind of been interested in how are you looking to involve these concepts into your future career hustles, whatever else and do you have any advice for other people who experience these traits?

Yeah, definitely. I'm working on... I feel like it'll be a book, and I've been working on a course as well. And it'll be something along the lines of from selfless to self-love. And so that will be in 2024. Looking forward to that. And what we're talking about right now, this is something...' It will be a podcast series and or an audio summit, which is 'Work How You Are' is the title of it, unless I change it or something. Or unless it's but 'Work How You Are', which is really tips and tricks and these interviews.

Like with you and then you with me. It's like trying to help those that are out there that are introverts, working in extroverted jobs, for example. Like a lot of tips and information on how to recharge. How can we do that? Making sure we get our rest, fill our cups first in my podcast, in Shameless plug, really. But my podcasts are really love letters. Most of my podcast episodes are love letters to introverts, highly sensitive people, empaths, and those with ADHD and or an ADHD brain. So a lot of those are my podcast episodes. But a lot of the things that I'm like my book and my future course when that comes out in my podcast series, they're really love letters to help those that have these same characteristics and traits to navigate this world that was not meant for us.

It was meant for extroverts are like, you're great if you're an extrovert and I'm doing like a little thumbs up, but it's like a quote unquote thumbs down if you're an introvert. Or that's not cool if you're an introvert. Are you a highly sensitive person? A lot of people don't even like to take the term because there's a stigma with that. There's a stigma with being an introvert, stigma with being sensitive, especially for men. That's a whole nother thing. I feel like I'll cover that in another thing, I would like to talk to some men that are highly sensitive, which there is, and you can kind of sense my ADHD right now, there is a sensitive men. I think they just made a documentary and I think it's called Sensitive Men. I'm going to look it up.

I'm writing it down right now. So I'll have it in the show notes by the time this comes out. But sensitive men, because the men were like, hey, what about us? How do we navigate in this world that's like, sensitivity is looked down on, especially if you're a man. So that's a whole nother thing, too. I'm looking forward to that'll be in the future. Too. I would like to interview some men that are highly sensitive people as well. But to come back, bring it, reel it in.

Yeah, that's really what I'm trying to do with my podcast episodes and with my book when it comes out and. My course when it comes out, knock on wood next year or as soon as possible in divine timing and having these things, these resources where I can help those that have these traits to navigate this world that really wasn't meant for us.

You've used self exploration as a teaching moment for others, and I appreciate that.

Yeah, thank you. And it's like, I love and we talked a little bit about this in the last in the last interview when I was interviewing you. I love 1-1's, too, so it's like that's another thing, and I'm thinking out loud because I would like to add 1-1's as well, because to people that are like, maybe they're just discovering that there are these traits and navigating them. I love to do that. So I just changed my title to Self Awareness Mentor because it's pretty much what I've been doing, but I kind of change around the title a little bit. I know titles don't really matter, but I feel like that title really suits me as far as being a self-awareness mentor, because I'm mentoring in things, I'm a few steps ahead of someone else. I'm not like a doctor. I never say I'm a doctor.

I'm a mentor. So I can help out with things that I've discovered throughout my life. I can help out with those that are navigating it or just discovering it and giving helpful, like giving resources and helping out with advice and mentoring. Really? Yeah, I would say that. Thank you for listening, y'all. Thanks, Rachel, for your time.

Thank you for sharing a lot of your background and how you've gotten here and created this space for people.

Yeah, definitely. I love it. And I really love to help others. Sharing information with others, I love it. Connecting with others, it's my absolute favorite thing. And I wish that for everyone else as well. I wish everyone to be in our zones of genius, do what lights us up. That's another thing I want to say real quick before we end is a huge difference in being an introvert, a highly sensitive person, and or an empath.

Is that a lot of speaking of jobs, money does not drive us. Money does not drive introverts and highly sensitive people, and empaths purpose drives us. So if you're in a job that's like, I had a lot of jobs in my previous jobs that were like salesy. I never did good at those jobs because money doesn't drive me. What drove me was connecting with the customers, listening to the customers, talking to the customers. That drove me, which did not bring in money. You know what I mean? So it never worked. But when there's purpose attached to something, something that we really care about and also to those that also have an ADHD brain and or have an ADHD, purpose drives us, really.

We really gravitate towards something that has purpose. If something doesn't have purpose. It doesn't really drive us, so that's huge. I wanted to make sure I mentioned that, too, before we end. Yeah. I'm sorry, what was that?

That's insanely important. Yeah.

Huge. It drives us for listening. I appreciate you. Hopefully I didn't talk too much. Cheers to speaking up and for making your voice heard.