So, there's this subreddit that I go to and I love it. It's called, fat fire. And the idea is people who wanna retire relatively young with a lot of money so they can live a fat life without working. And so, basically, if you post on there a lot, the mods, the community leaders of the subreddit, will verify your net worth to make your sure you're not full of shit.

By the way, did you have a goal like this? Like, I wanna retire by x age, or I wanna be, like, this wealthy by this age? What what was your, like how did you phrase your goal?

I I wanted to have $20,000,000 by age 30.

Gotcha. Alright.

That's what I wanted. That was my goal. I created that goal when I was in my, when I was, like, 19 or 20 years old.

I mean, I can't confirm or deny, but, you know, mission accomplished is what I would say.

I I sold my company I I achieved it at 31. I sold my company at 31.

Right.

And so my that was my goal. Because I asked a a rich person who I knew, I asked them how much money do you spend a month? And they told me $60,000 a month. And at the time, I was like, I don't know. Like, I can't imagine there's a world where I'm

at work. Absurd. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm like, that just sounds crazy, but whatever. Like, I asked, like, 8 people, and this person had the highest number. And I was, like, okay. I'll just do that because I'll be conservative. And then if you withdraw only 3% of your 20,000,000, that gives you, like, $600,000 a year to spend there. That's that number. So I just F.

I. R. E. Philosophy and F. I. R. E. Stands for financially independent retire early.

So that's the

So you can you can you can spend, a percentage of your port of your liquid portfolio, and, basically, it continues to grow.

Have enough money that the earnings, the sort of compounding earnings on the money being invested in something safe, like the stock market, S and P 500 type of thing, can, can cover your burn rate. So there's 2 things that matter. What is the amount that I have invested, and what is my life burn rate? That's why a lot of people who like fire, they go move to, like, you know, bump fuck, you know, middle of nowhere, and they are like, oh, yeah. I got rid of my car, and it's great. Now I can, you know, I got rid of everything I own, and me and my wife, we only eat apple cores, and now we are retired. It's like, but fat fire is different. Fat fire is like, nah, I kinda wanna ball out. I'm not trying to, like, skimp on my lifestyle.

So, okay, what do I need to achieve, and what do I need to optimize while still not giving up, like, what I find to be enjoyable in terms of lifestyle?

Yeah. So that's how I made up that number. And I don't even I spend $15,000 a month. I mean, when I sold, I had saved a, like, 7 figures. Of course, that includes my wife and I, and she also worked at Airbnb. And so Airbnb went public, and she had worked there for a long time. Airbnb went public in December. I sold my company in February.

So it was, like, December 1st and then, like, February 1st was, like, those 2 or 3 months was, like, massive.

Right.

And so but prior to

that ignore that. Take her out because we don't wanna put her business out there. So let's just talk about you. You in your early twenties, what were you making?

So, from age 22 to probably 26 and 27, I paid myself something like $2 a month. So in the brain so the 1st year of business, I probably paid myself $20,000 for the 1st year. And then I paid myself $40,000 for the next 2 years and then, $70,000. And in the last year

That was 24 k a year and then 40 k a year, and then you said 70 k roughly.

No. It was, like, 20, 40, 40, 70. Yeah. So that's 4 years in. And then the year we sold, I paid myself close to $300,000.

Right.

And I had a few other investments, like some angel investments and, like, some weird things that kinda paid off. But, basically, like, for the longest time, I mean, I was living I the way I rigged it was in San Francisco, my rent was only $400 because I rented out this big place, and I only had $25 in my name. And I spent all of it to rent out and furnish this place, and then I rented it out to people who basically subsidized it for me. So I was living like a poor person. And, so I was able to save a little

bit of money. Living like a like a wealthy person, really. You were living in a place, and it was only costing you $400 a month, which is great example, by the way, because there's a lot of people that will be like, why do we have to San Francisco, but I can't afford it. All you're saying to me is, I lack creativity and resourcefulness, because what you did is available to everybody. Go find a place that's at market or slightly below market price. And what you did, I think, is you cut a deal with the landlord. You were like, I'll never call you for anything.

Yeah. I told you. When

it breaks, I'll fix it. You I think you lived there for, like, a decade or some shit, and you'd never call him.

Oh, my god. Like, 7 years. You

never spoke to the person.

Yeah. I never saw I had I not once have I ever seen him out.

If you showed him at the house, you wouldn't know who the heck is.

I would not. I don't even remember what he looks like. I couldn't even tell you what he looks like. I think his name was Chris. Chris.

And so you cut this deal and you're like, look, I'm you basically became the landlord.

Well, I showed I showed up and I was 22. And it was a $4,000 or 5 I forget how much was it. $45100 a month for a 4 bedroom house. And he goes, is it just you? I go, look. It's just me right now, but I'm gonna get, like, some friends to move in. I'll, like, sign a lease a sublease with them, and I and I can have you approve it. Right. But, basically, like, I'm gonna pay you on time all the time, and my the preferred relationship you and I have is I never see you again.

And are you okay with that? And he goes, yeah. He goes, don't don't be late. And I go, okay. Deal. Anyway, it yeah. And so at this point yeah. So it was a slow build. It took, like, 5, 6, 7 years.

But then what's crazy is I'm 32 now. I started hustling at age 20 probably 20, like, making, like, real money on my own, like, livable money. And at this point, at age 32, I'll make more this year from a couple, like, side investments, like a real estate deal that I did. I'll make more this year than, collectively, all of my salaries combined while working at the hustle.

Exactly. And that's that's the exact same same case for me, and I think that's actually really common. And I think the reason I bring that up is because it's interesting to me. B, I think that's really comforting to people. Because when you're in it, and you're not making any money, and it looks like other people are all making hella money, it feels it could feel very bad. And you can question if you're on the right path or not. And this doesn't mean you're definitely on the right path, but it means when this path of entrepreneurship works, that's commonly what it looks like. So don't be surprised.

Alright. So let's get back to,

you know Which, by the way, when I was getting going, I was always so envious of other people. Like, my friends, I'm like, fuck. You got a job at Google? You make a $150 a year, and you have all these benefits? I haven't been to the doctor forever. This is awesome. I'm so jealous. So You'd

come to you'd come to my office and you'd be like, dude, this is your office? I'd be like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you we'd be eating something, you'd be like, is this cheese just always available? Whose cheese is this? They just bring this cheese?

I felt like I would bring it like

you'd be like, look, this cheese is from Whole Foods. This is expensive cheese. I'm like, bro, stop talking about the cheese right now. But it was like, I remember you were noticing all those things in a funny way. Well, I

was like, you guys have an espresso machine?

You guys got a woman's bathroom? What the hell is an espresso machine? Yeah.

I remember I was, like, freaking out that you had an espresso, like, espresso machine. I was, like, what the hell is this? And I I remember, like, I used to take food to go. So anyway, yeah. It it accumulated quickly. And I think it for most people, it's I mean, it like, I think that it's basically it's like you're poor, you're poor, you're poor, and then it's like suddenly it's like, oh, holy crap. I'm not anymore. And, you know, you you have that moment. And there's this subreddit called Fat Fire, and they talk a lot about that.

And there's this guy who has a series of threads called Confessions of a Hectomillionaire. And he's doing, like, 8 parts, and I linked to it in there. I see

part 5 here. Yeah.

And the mods have basically, approved it. So, basically, the mods have like, this guy DM'd him DM'd his accountant's or account information or something. So they, like, verified that he's as wealthy as he is. But, basically, in the beginning thread, he says, you know, I'm worth north of $100,000,000. I got wealthy originally because I was an employee at a tech company that made me $30,000,000, and that was, like, 15 years ago. And then I invested in this, and then I did this, and then I did this. And I'm gonna answer a lot of the questions that I think a lot of people ask here, and the mods have approved that I am who I am. And I'm gonna tell you all about work and purpose, my time and routine, why keep a low profile, how relationships are are complicated, what I spend on a monthly basis, what my investment in portfolio management is, and it's incredibly fascinating.

I love this stuff where you get behind the scenes of people who you'd normally never have access to. And so it's a great series. It's a great thread. It's awesome.